RTS Thread
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
Why did RTS games die?
Also talk about Dawn of War III I guess.
>>337976082
> Create the best cover mechanic in RTS games
> Perfect it with CoH 2
> Go back to holes in the ground cover of DoW 1
Game is fucking SHIT
>>337976172
I think the fanbase is mostly at fault there.
>Don't be an Uncharted bait thread
>Already halfway down the list
>>337976172
It actually surprised me how many steps back they are deciding to take with DoWIII. I knew base-building would be back because the fanbase wouldn't stop bitching about it because DoWII is their first RTT ever but I didn't expect them to ditch almost everything DoWII was.
>>337975976
I've been having a ton of fun with AI:War. It's not that complicated mechanically, most fights are basically rock, paper scissors for each ship type/class, but the AI is fucking difficult. That's a rarity, and it makes it fun.
You can get absolutely crushed in this game. That's a good thing.
>>337977362
I haven't seen a lot of good AI in RTS games.
At least with multiplayer, RTS games were doomed to be solved games. It all comes down to memorizing build order and clicks per minute. It ceases to be a reactive game, because by the first minute you already know who is going to win. That is why MOBAs took over.
>>337977613
Offworld Trading Company actually manages to avoid that. Multiplayer is all about adapting to the circumstances and current situation and fucking the other player over as much as possible.
It'sfun.
The RTS genre died because nostalgia fags and a divided fanbase.
>>337976172
>>337976830
I own both DoW1 and 2, and i have to say i'm ok with returning to basebuilding and less RTT mechanics, at least for me, the mechanics in DoW2 sucked with the tyranids, orks and imperial guard since those races are all about massive waves of infantry and vehicles/big tyranids accompanying the slaughter.
With that said, the RTT mechanics were excelent for Spess muhreens, Chaos and eldar, since they are more focused on elite infantry.
Either way, i'm happy we might get maybe 12 units per faction this time around.
>>337977613
I might be in the minority but I always found it odd that MOBAs and RTS are considered competitors.
>>337979307
I guess it has to do with Mobas beggining as a custom game for an rts, and sharing some controls and the perspective.
Besides that they are completely different from an RTS
>>337975976
As a genre they are too hardcore for the plebs.
>>337975976
Command and Conquer 4 ruined it all.
MY LIFE FOR HIRE
8 bit armies is my shit, game is fucking hectic holy fuck
>>337979705
yeah, that was the final nail in the coffin.
>RTS thread has only 10 posters
Guess we could add that as another reason why the genre is so dead, miniscule fanbase
>>337976172
>>337976830
people liked DoW1 because it allowed for huge battles of massive scale. DoW 2 fails at that.
do you really need this explained
the 3rd person console game redefined all of gaming as the official distraction of the turd caste, gaming used to be for nerdy (but still smart) people
there are no longer enough smart people gaming to justify the massive development costs
>>337981095
Even if you increase the popcap to 999 the game feels off and isn't even ment to have so many units on the field.
It's really sad they went with that route with DoW2, because graphically it is gorgeous
>>337975976
>Look at that latest RTS by Petroglyph
>shit looks like fun
>ONE FACTION ONLY
for fuck sake, why are they fucking retarded when it comes to this things
I prefer city builders that let me take it slow.
>>337981418
>ruined their own game
>maybe mods or dlc races later
>gimped themselves before it came out
>make you unwilling to support them since so clearly bad at decision making
Why did they even think 1 race was a good idea?
>its much more fun to play with friends but in rts games you usually play alone
>some games are fucking hard like starcraft
>not enough feedback that makes you feel like it worth the time like ranking up
>not enough aaa rts games
although lotv doing okay and dota has rts elements
>>337975976
The games didn´t die, they are still perfectly playable, both physically as well as in gameplay.
The genre supposedly "died", but as a genre is a loose collection of agreed upon parameters, so it really can´t die either.
It *became rare* since the driving force behind games became consoles and you can´t play RTS on consoles, that and the fact that everyone and their mother tried to jump onto the bandwagon of WC3 and their bold new directions - which, incidentally, made WC3 not a very good pure RTS - but as everyone who tries to emulate instead of making your own thing they made some of the worst games ever to disgrace the genre, and abandoned the genre for easier projects, like "cinematic" "experiences". Fuck EA.
>>337977514
>I haven't seen a lot of good AI in RTS games.
Should have stopped writing at AI.
There is literally almost not good AI in any game, but strategy games have a huge amount of those that actually are, compared to other genres.
>>337975976
Everyone wanted the exact same shit and anything that deviated from the formula became a niche title at best. Everyone followed the esports money and nostalgia to cling to Starcraft 2, but left when they got tired of waiting for another $60 standalone.
Meanwhile Total War and Civ are the only Grand Strategy and 4X titles because niches within niches only allow for one series to have all the players. Any new games just distrct players until the new installments of the same old shit come out (going back to point one).
As much as people complain, they like rehash. Sadly rehash isn't sustainable so genres stagnate and die off.
>>337981863
>dota has rts elements
>>>/out/
>>337975976
It's simple really. It's too complex for your average 'gamer' to pick up, takes too long, and you don't always feel like a winner.Which is why call of duty is still bought.
>>337981308
> graphically it is gorgeous
Marines looked disproprotionate and awkward as fuck.
I know people think that the helmets are too big on the actual minis, but they made them too small, which looked even goofier. The animations in the game were not really excellent either, DoW had more impressive stuff for its time.
Because why would you play an RTS when there are so many better choices out there for controlling large amounts of units in a strategic fashion?
>>337975976
Im still playing DoW 1, CoH 1 and 2 with friends.
Sometimes even dusting off starcraft 1.
Feels alright, man.
>>337981995
He's right though.
Doesn't make it good at all though.
Describe the perfect rts
>WWII RTS with similar style to COH
>large scale maps consisting on 1 or 2 towns
>more multiplayer slots with lower troop caps
>macro battles with a focus on single squads controlled by each player
>ability to post individual troops in buildings for ambushes
>bonus in troop effectiveness during an ambush if all have a chain of communication/all are within sight of each other
>communication requires an actual radio if troops are not within line of sight
>can still control troops without a radio but units are a lot more likley to make mistakes and are slower
>two players cannot communicate without a squad member of either player having a radio
>all artillery requires setup but is much more effective if a single player organizes artillery while another working on the front line requests barrages
>one team advances while the other defends
>advancing team requires a certain amount of capture points to win within the time limit
>bridges are strategic and can be destroyed to slow an advancing army
>bunkers and sandbags effective against ground forces but open to air attack
>tanks are hindered by the surface they're driving on
>>337982163
The rest of the races had good looking things, even if the muhreens look off.
The vehicles also feel like they have more impact in the game compared to how easily they died in DoW1
Now, i'm not trying to shill or defend DoW2 because i really consider DoW1 to be the superior game, but still, DoW2 had its charm
Anyways, anyone wants to play either DoW1 or 2? I want to have some fun in MP
I'm just gonna leave my theory that its because RTS games suck on console, so devs don't want to put heaps of money into games that aren't multiplat. If more studios pushed RTS games wed see more interest from the public
>>337975976
A lot of the old RTS market has splintered off into their own niche genres in recent years. Those that played an RTS for different reasons have moved on to more focused genres like 4x, grand strategy, Tower defense and MOBAs. These new genres have developed to a degree where people can now play what they want to play without having to put up with things they were not interested in when playing RTS. Don't like unit control, rather build the perfect defense? TDs. Into building the perfect sim-city? 4x, or city builders. Other people have mentioned other reasons, but I feel people don't give enough credit to other genres that share some mechanics with the traditional RTS.
Probably a ton of other reasons why.
>>337982954
Does it have to be set in WWII?
I'm so tired of fucking WWII.
>>337983150
4x and grandstrats were both well established back in the day, though, and don't really replace RTS at all.
Also tower defense isn't exactly a flourishing genre.
Also, the spellforce games are on sale on steam, they are worth the price and are a fun mix of RPG+RTS.i'm shilling it because i want someone to play MP spellforce with me
>>337983349
my 1st and last tower defense games were custom maps in warcraft3
>>337983480
exactly
>>337983258
What was the last actually interesting war?
Vietnam was just a bunch of yellow people swinging from trees.
>>337983683
Korea maybe.
Hopefully we can move to something like the Yugoslav Wars or maybe the Chechen Wars
>>337979128
>With that said, the RTT mechanics were excelent for Spess muhreens, Chaos and eldar, since they are more focused on elite infantry.
This. It made no sense for Space Marines to build new bases when they're basically the Imperium's special forces. Doesn't suit Orks, 'Nids, IG, or most else for that matter
>>337983820
Korea was just more yellow people floundering around rocks.
Difficulty splits the fanbase I feel
I love RTS and I love playing them with friends, but playing them with anyone else who actually spends more than 30 minutes a day on an RTS is complete cancer because of how easily they will destroy you, even with handicap. It's like playing counter-strike with a friend who is Global Elite when you've barely gotten to Gold Nova Master. Just not fun.
>>337983820
>Yugoslav Wars
that would be a great game.
serbian army, big but falling apart due to structures being overtaken by separatist forces
special unit: serbian general
special trait: order death squads
croatian army, small but ferocious nazi-zealots, improved starting resources due to NATO funding
special unit: propaganda minister
special trait: civilian transformation to military units
bosnian army, hidden in the civilian population, structures not recognisable by satelites
special unit: mujaheedin
special trait: suicide bombs
So currently replaying Chaos Rising, is there a mod to make your lots of loot carryover from DOW2 campaign.
I just want my gifts back.
>>337984569
hmm, this is good. could work
>>337979659
I love that game, but undead mage is extremely over powered
You know, DoWIII better have SupCom-like strategic zoom or I'm gonna be hella bummed.
>>337979767
>life
>not wife
You had one job, nigga!
>>337983349
You are right, but I've had a number of my old RTS mates just move on to 4x and I've personally moved on to grand strategy in a lot of cases.
>>337981790
>>337981418
Petroglyph have been "amazing idea in paper, shit execution" since the star wars game
Universe at War
>Hey what if we made a game about an alien invasion and humans are totally unable to stop the aliens?
>Oh yeah, and there is 50 units per player tops, and buildings are massive for the map size!
GreyGoo
>Hey what if we made a game about greygoo, you know, replicate nanomachines who eat everything?
>Oh and it plays like a RTS from two decades ago and has zero personality
>8-bit wars
>the fucking whole idea by itself
>>337975976
But if RTS died, why am i still playing them?
>>337975976
Not enough strategy, too much micromanaging tactics. The logical progression of where the genre was going was MOBAs but the fanbase refuses to accept this. The best RTSes try to avoid this and put the focus back on actual strategy, but they're not mainstream even within the genre.
>>337975976
most gamedevs that try to cater to the genre because they love it cannot get their money back, let alone any profit from the stingy cunts that make up the fans of the genre.
everyone else who see this know to stay away.
the very few that "succeed" in RTS does so by appealing to other fans like tabletopfags and historyfags, not actual RTSfags. You can tell by seeing how none of their trailers promote the RTS gameplay. Because they know no RTS gamers actually support RTS games.
>people actually defending DoW2
I hate you contrarian shitstains so much. It was shit, it has been firmly laid out why it is shit a thousand times, ring-around the checkpoints was garbage and the balance was abysmal even by Relic standards. The singleplayer campaign was better than one's, but only because of co-op. The missions got repetitive as shit outside of main story missions.
>>337984569
I really feel some strong C&C Generals vibe by this description.
>>337986702
It's was pretty much a less polished Coh2, and that game is pretty good, familia.
>>337981891
I always wondered why the AI in strategy games have always been so much better than other Genres. Honestly, HL2 and FEAR are the only two FPS games were the enemy had more behaviors than move forward and shoot.
>>337987071
>stuck all his indirect in 1 tiny spot
Nice
>>337982954
just play close combat and be done with your dreaming
![header[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mjahm62.jpg "header[1].jpg")
Anyone play Kingdom Wars?
because nothing beat the god of RTS yet
>>337976172
>perfect it with CoH2
>CoH 2 perfecting ANYTHING
The only pro it has over the first game was vehicles have a reverse move, although the shitty pathfinding still makes them collide.
>>337986702
Retribution Ork campaign is godlike though.
>>337987071
Thank fuck that cancer map was removed from matchmaking.
>>337988005
is there a gameplay video or something of this already
Would SEGA go full jew and make CSM DLC only like in Total War ?
RTS genre was perfected very early.
Only a few games since then have been successful because RTS fans are too much in love with the old games, while casuals never really got into it because, while the single-player campaigns and dicking around can be fun, playing it at a competitive level (especially if you're coming in a few years after the release) is mentally exhausting.
>>337986702
That eldar is cute, CUTE!
