The best and plausibly only way to fix MMOs is sandboxes instead of theme parks. Prove this wrong. Protip: you probably can't.
>>337915516
You're right, multiplayer sandbox games are great
>>337915516
We already know this. The problem is convincing a developer to do this without a fucking cash shop being involved.
I agree, but structured MMOs can be just as fun if done right. There hasn't been a good one since Burning Crusade.
>>337917915
Looks like a SS13 mod, what game?
>>337919276
I don't get, so much, the appeal of "structured MMOs" because there's no progression beyond the occasional +1 ilvl, and only as much as there is developed content.
>>337915516
Seriously though, how do we "fix" MMORPGs? What does a fixed mmo look like?
>>337920064
Rift's class system and the fact that everyone had a ton of buttons made the progression more experimentation/skill based rather than gear based. You have to admit that raiding with your bros, progressing through bosses and getting upgrades is fun as fuck though.
>>337920093
I'm not into PvE so much for MMOs because I don't find the gameplay to be satisfying, humping bosses for 15-X sets of the class' rotation, but PvP could affect literally everything on the realm -- mat placement and availability, having bosses defeated so that they're loyal to the faction until they respawn (can be brought places), etc.
best mmo of all time reporting in
>>337915516
MMO's are dead.
>>337915516
People don't want sandboxes, literally you think you want to but you don't.
Prove this wrong. Protip: you most likely can't.
>>337919379
I would still play it today if it didn't go f2p
>>337915516
a sandbox is just a theme park that the devs couldnt be bothered to create any content for.
fuck off
>>337921935
UO is a Sandbox MMO and that's not true. They created a lot of content.
The primary issue is, no modern game designers want to look at UO.
If people really wanted sandboxes eve and ultima would be so much more popular.
>>337915516
What exactly do you mean by sandbox mmo?
Create your own quests? What?
>>337921784
>you wouldn't like the subgenre with actual content
>>337921935
Except the content that's there is repeatable and dynamic.
>>337922092
Ultima is archaic, and EVE is the most P2W game in existence. Not that the payer would actually win, because it's almost impossible to find fair engagements.
>>337922124
>>337920059
lifeweb pray for terror
>>337921784
t.Blizzard
> tfw I'm stuck in a constant cycle of playing WoW private servers and barely progress before the server dies.
Help me.
>>337924959
Just fucking stop.
>>337921616
>Rift's/WoW's class depth and combat
>Guild Wars 1 class mixing
>Progression is mostly horizontal, experimenting with different class/skill builds and gear sets
>95% of all high end gear is crafted
>Gear/Inventory drops on death
>95% of the world is FFA PvP
>Players can freely build structures like walls/houses/castles/etc in PvP area
>Bank space in safe area is extremely limited, players must build containers in unsafe areas for additional storage. These containers can be looted by other players.
>Must get materials used to craft high end gear from difficult and rare world bosses
>>337931452
>95% of all high end gear is crafted
sounds horrible
>>337931452
>average global game population: 100 (500 peak on launch week)
>>337932667
>being on about some shit
>>337932609
why
>>337932738
I don't understand what you're trying to say.
>>337920317
>but playing a mindless skinner box is fun!
As long as you stay quarantined in WoW, the world is safe.
>>337915516
>sandbox meme
name one sandbox that even achieved 5 million subs? I'll wait
>>337932948
no skill required to get the best gear, everyone can get it by grinding out crafts.
>>337933713
It's hardly mindless and it's moreso fun for the social aspect. The skinnerbox reward is just the icing on the cake.
>>337933781
>Implying sub numbers indicate quality.
Keeping up with the Kardashians is a stupidly popular show, so it must be quality TV
>>337931452
Search for UO private server and give a few a try, except for half of the "combat" part, what you just described kinda fits right in. Although I don't really know about combat anymore, I think they released yet another "new client" some years ago that might have improved it for "modern audiences" or some shit.If there isn't any suited to your specific tastes, running an UO private server with your very own custom ruleset used to be really easy some years ago, so I'm pretty sure it might be even easier nowadays.
>>337933953
>Must get materials used to craft high end gear from difficult and rare world bosses
try reading the whole thing next time anon
>>337933781
Minecraft
>>337934025
>Sandbox
>YOU CAN DO ANYTHING
>gets pretty grindy/boring/repetitive
>people think you can do anything but its limited by how much you play
>Themepark
>You can do what we have provided for now
>We are constantly making new content for when you've finished the current content
>>337933984
>being this pathetic
I think I met you recently. You're that 42 year old guy who still lives in his mothers basement and plays WoW, right? The one who has had two heart attacks, one stroke and a triple bypass surgery right? You came through the healthcare facility I work at last month. Glad to see you're not dead yet.
>>337934346
I'm 22. That's a lot of hostility though, wanna talk about it bud?
>>337934231
>themeparks aren't grindy/repetitive
>sandboxes can't get new content
wew lad
>>337933953
You know, the "perfect" sandbox game would have to limit your available characters to 1 per server, and also the shit you can accomplish with it so you can't be everything.
Too bad that would be next to impossible given today's player mindsets, not only because most will probably say "fuck that shit" but because it would be hard as balls to pull out and enforce.
>>337934648
This. The fuck does that post even say.
>>337933953
MMOs aren't particularly skill-intensive games. So what if it's play based. In an economic game, you could just buy whatever you like.
>>337935480
He's some PvE shitter.
>>337933781
name 1 mmo that achieved 5 million subs that that isn't wow
>>337935585
>MMOs aren't particularly skill-intensive games
I don't get this meme. Have you ever tried to get a top 100 log on a boss kill? Have you ever tried to get glad/r1 in WoW arena? MMOs have massive potential to be difficult/skill-intensive.
>>337935752
So, you're suggestion is that drops only happen for guilds that are the top X%? That seems super limited and uninteresting.
>tfw missed the glory days of star wars galaxies
>>337937864
No that wasn't my suggestion. Ideally the gear that you get from bosses would only be slightly better than the next lowest level of gear. You'd be able to compete with players in BiS even if you're not in BiS. Players and guilds will compete for kills but ideally it'd be impossible for one group of players to have a complete monopoly on world bosses. Drops would also be tradeable so there's always the option of buying from dominant guilds. I guess yeah, the better players will get the best drops, but that's how a competitive PvP-based game should be.
>>337938712
That's not fun.
>>337939120
Because you suck dick at video games and can't compete..
>>337939235
>guys, just spam this GCD shit for 20min
>it's fun!
>all of progression is based on it
We already have that problem.
>>337940149
>le tab targeting combat is bad maymay
so you're retarded then
>>337940623
It would just be the same gameplay and progression as what is already plentiful.
>>337941120
>It would just be the same gameplay
see
>Guild Wars 1 class mixing
>Progression is mostly horizontal, experimenting with different class/skill builds and gear sets
And a PvP based game wouldn't provide you with similar encounters over and over again, they'd be dynamic.
>>337941448
>horizontal
Yet you're making it seem like it's just a few extra stats on anything else.
The good thing is that /v/ will never get to design an MMO.
>>337915516
If that is the case then why isn't EVE Online crushing the competition right now?
I mean it's a space sandbox where you can do pretty much anything you want as long as you got the time and dedication. Corps have massive wars over territory and shit like that.
>inb4 Spreadsheet Simulator
>>337941679
what?
>>337941984
It's P2W as fuck, space/scifi is a terrible setting, the actual gameplay is shit.
>>337941913
tell us how you'd design an MMO then since you're such hot shit
>>337942809
I don't know.
But at least I'm not retarded enough to think that I could design a good one.
Oh no, it's this retard again. :^(
>>337942950
A lot of people that aren't underaged have been playing MMOs for over a decade. Why wouldn't we capable of knowing what would make a decent game?
Your post reeks of some sort of complex, nobody can be smart but you.
>>337943513
>A lot of people that aren't underaged have been playing MMOs for over a decade
Simply playing MMOs doesn't mean you'd be good at designing them.
>Your post reeks of some sort of complex, nobody can be smart but you.
I didn't realize I thought that way.
It's more like that I know that basically everyone has their own ideas as to what would make an MMO good. Mine most likely wouldn't be any better than others'. The difference between you and I is that I don't think I'm special.
>>337944770
It's not about being special. It's about commonality. There was just a thread up about what develops reasons to keep playing a game, and those very much exist.
>>337944770
>Simply playing MMOs doesn't mean you'd be good at designing them
Having a lot of experience with MMO mechanics and knowing what makes MMOs enjoyable means quite a lot imo.
>The difference between you and I is that I don't think I'm special
You feel like your ideas would get shit on so you shit on everyone elses' preemptively.
How about you actually contribute to the conversation fuckface.
>>337945448
>Having a lot of experience with MMO mechanics and knowing what makes MMOs enjoyable means quite a lot imo.
Sure, it helps a bit, but that's all. However, we'd have hundreds of good MMOs if experience was what counted the most.
>preemptively
There were quite a lot of posts in the thread before I made my post. I wouldn't call that preemptive.
Not that there's anything wrong with shitting on them preemptively either. It's basically guaranteed that 99% of the ideas are shit.
>How about you actually contribute to the conversation fuckface.
Contribute to a conversation with the same people spouting the same shit over and over again, refusing to accept that their ideas are shit regardless of what you tell them?
I've done that enough. Thanks anyway.
>>337934658
>>You know, the "perfect" sandbox game would have to limit your available characters to 1 per server, and also the shit you can accomplish with it so you can't be everything.
Welcome to pre-CU SWG.
>>337946506
>we'd have hundreds of good MMOs if experience was what counted the most
Except for the development requirements for producing games. Ya know.. maybe $1M and a studio.
It's not so black and white, or maybe it is, and you're just being cynical.
what mmos need is to throw instanced shit out of the window and give a reason for guilds to fight each other(for resources,territory whatever).
>>337946832
>Except for the development requirements for producing games. Ya know.. maybe $1M and a studio.
It's not about the development requirements. The problem is that the lifecycle of a MMO is simply too short to make a sandbox, and especially one that doesn't have P2W cash shop bullshit. So you just get unfinished simplistic bullshit that doesn't even attract a proper playerbase.
If people wanted to make a good sandbox MMORPG as a primary concern, instead of making money as a primary concern, they could. But they don't want to.
>>337946506
>However, we'd have hundreds of good MMOs if experience was what counted the most.
Games don't just spawn out of thin air.
>There were quite a lot of posts in the thread before I made my post. I wouldn't call that preemptive.
It doesn't matter how many posts there already are so long as you shit on everything before posting your own ideas.
>Contribute to a conversation with the same people spouting the same shit over and over again, refusing to accept that their ideas are shit regardless of what you tell them?
Provide some arguments.
Sandboxes are a meme. They were never good. If they were the sandbox MMOs already out there would be swarmed.
People don't play MMOs to live out a second life that they never got to experience in the first place anymore. Now they play them to grind shit while listening to podcasts and ERP
>>337948278
>Now they play them to grind shit while listening to podcasts and ERP
The same can be true for sandboxes.
>>337948278
>Sandboxes are a meme. They were never good.
I feel like archeage had the closest thing to a winning formula. Themepark with some sandbox elements. Shame that publishers fucked it over in every region
People expect too much from a Sandbox MMO and then companies try to do too much and hype it up then fail spectacularly
Just hope Shroud of the Avatar and Camelot Unchained aren't total shit
>>337948278
>Eve
>>337946506
>It's basically guaranteed that 99% of the ideas are shit.
How is that paradigm treating ya?
"For one who is free from views there are on ties. For one who is delivered by understanding there are no follies; but those who grasp after views and philosophical opinions wander about in the world annoying people.”
>>337951565
no*
>>337950645
Are there any Archeage private servers?
>>337950645
Could you build shit in Archeage like you could in Rift? I loved the Rift dimension system so much.
>>337950645
You could buy land and build houses, gardens and shit. And it was in the open world (altho in designated locations, but there were alot of those all over the world), could build ships, boats etc. and sail, trade etc.
there should be mmos with botting allowed
>>337915516
Name one sandbox MMO more popular then WoW.
Right now WoW has around 2-3 million subscribers. Give me a sandbox that has that many or more.
Protip: you can't.
>>337956249
Minecraft
>>337956249
Can you explain why an MMO has to be "more popular than WoW" in order to be successful?
>>337956432
>Minecraft
>A MMO
>>337956594
Because people seem to think that publishers care about making a good game. Hell even a lot of developers. One thing talks, money. WoW's success=money. I don't think a MMO has even half of the subscriber amount it has now. Developers see this and they want that cake.
They then look at sandbox games and how low population/money making they are. How many fail so massively.
That is why sandboxes will never rise. Not until one is so widely successful that it threatens even WoW.
>>337957281
>>They then look at sandbox games and how low population/money making they are. How many fail so massively.
So do themepark games, and they are produced in much larger quantities than sandbox games, what's your point? You're just advocating for "making WoW" and this is not something that's going to happen ever again.
>>337957281
Minecraft is
>Massively Multiplayer
>Online
>a Role-Playing Game
It's by definition an MMO. You got proven wrong bud.
>tfw no good mmo
>>337956249
>>337957281
WoW fakes its sub numbers with Chink cafe players who get cards that only expire as they play, and don't even pay for xpacs.
Fun games are what get money. That's obvious with the failing rehashes.
