>"They were going, 'You can't have a black person on the cover, and you can't have a woman. And you want a black woman.' And I was like, 'Yes, I do, because it's about be whatever hero you want.' [According to McCormack, Microsoft said] 'No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's f**king it. Stop the arguing.' I was like, 'F**k you!' That was a huge fight."
>"They said, 'What's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, 'I don't know.' They went, 'Princess and the Frog. Work it out.' I was like, "F**k you, man.' I hated it."
>McComack went on to say that Microsoft "missed the point" of Fable III overall by putting a traditional-looking, male hero on the cover.
>"I was screaming at them in conference calls," he said. "I lost it at that point, because they just weren't getting the game. Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls. It was meant to be funny and mature. They just took none of it and just did the usual white guy with a sword on the front. Damn it! You missed the point!"
www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-rejected-fable-devs-idea-to-put-black-wo/1100-6439777/
What does /v/ think?
Based Microsoft
Remember that nerdy black girl with glasses that got beat up in school for playing video games?
They cater to white males because thats the audience
This is a fucking business, you find your target market and cater to them
>>337899585
Is this the average Mexican?
>>337899323
But you could only play as a white guy or a white girl, so you couldn't be whatever hero you want. This sounds like a load of horseshit.
>>337899323
>'No. It's a white guy. That's just the way it is. We know what sells and that's f**king it. Stop the arguing
sounds like bullshit tbqh
sounds like how a faggot sjw would think a 'sexist racist' person would speak
>>337899323
Just more evidence that Fable III is where everything went downhill.
>>337900114
Exactly, sounds like some 14 year old wrote this. Let's not forget that a white guy has been on the cover for fable 1,2,3
>>337900114
No it's not.
Let's see, what's the better target demographic for a $60 game on a $250 machine:
>middle class white family with two parents that work and bring in decent money
>a dindu tribe with a single mother raising seven kids from nine different fathers that works at Applebees during the day and the Peppermint Rhino at night
Can't buy games with food stamps, you hypersensitive fagger. Must suck being black.
>>337899323
>McComack went on to say that Microsoft "missed the point" of Fable III overall by putting a traditional-looking, male hero on the cover.
Was the point of the game that you can't be a normal looking white guy ever or else?
Fable 3 was shit, and this is coming from someone who loved the first one.
>>337899323
>political pandering
go figure, the game is a massive piece of shit
I mean really awful, it's like a untested beta but worse, fuck them and that bald lying godus fucker
>>337899323
this happened
>>337899323
I'm pretty sure even paraphrasing these interactions with M$ is breaking his NDA. They will probably take him to court over these comments.
Otherwise, it's nice to read about publisher interference that's actually productive for once.
>>337900448
This is the most common opinion in the fanbase though anon
Fable 1 was pretty decent.
Fable 2 sucked but had some redeeming qualities
Fable 3 was total half-assed dogshit. What's worse is that it felt almost identical to Fable 2 even despite everything new it had.
fable was a piece of fucking shit anyways who cares
>>337900641
Yeah, pretty much. Instead of updating the first game I would've still preferred if they released 2 for PC, though.
>>337900641
>Fable 1 was pretty decent.
>Fable 2 sucked but had some redeeming qualities
Garbage opinion
Fable 2 always was best game in the series
>>337899585
That beard does a good job of hiding his second chin
>>337900773
>spot the retard
Fable 2>fable>shit>TLC=fable 3
Can we all agree with it?
>>337900773
Yeah, what a great game Fable 2 was. I loved how you couldn't die at all, and the end boss dies in one hit. Challenge is for faggots.
>>337899986
Yes
>>337899323
>Especially because we were the first ever game that had gay marriage, we were about breaking down walls
No?
Fable has always been tongue in cheek and campy, not 'breaking down walls'.
Gay marriage was probably just added as a laugh.
>>337899323
hey look, it's this thread again!
>>337900114
I dunno, it could easily be legit. White dudes sell more than nonwhite dudes. Wanna take two guesses what the biggest slice of the Fable pie is? White dudes.
Businessmen want to sell games. If some faggot wants to risk sales just for "muh progression" he's gonna get shut down
>>337900391
>7 kids
>9 fathers
science my nigga
Thanks for introducing paid online Microsoft and giving us on PC gimped ports of all your shitty games.
At least your had the courage to admit the Xbox is fucking useless
>>337900773
>Fable 2 always was best game in the series
I played Fable 2 only recently because it was a 360 exclusive
Games fucking garbage
>>337901074
Fable was a piss easy series in general, the lack of any challenge whatsoever certainly wasn't exclusive to Fable 2.
>>337901065
>>TLC=fable 3
Why?
>>337901074
>Saying this when you could just get physical shield in 1
kek
>wants black woman on the cover
>you can't actually play as a black woman
Bravo.
>>337899323
>Things you can play as: White dude, White chick
>Things you can't play as: Black dude, Black chick
Why would you even put a black woman in the cover? If I remember correctly, there is only one black woman in the game, and she was the most bitchy of all characters when the second part of the game started.
>>337901074
>dying in the TLC
Wow, you are pretty bad at the video games
>>337901338
Both are trash
>>337901065
Mouse and keyboard Fable>what you said
>>337900391
Yeah all blacks are poor and fits your description bucko.
>>337899323
Sounds like a fair and balanced article with totally no bias one way or another and is probably 100% true with no exaggerations or embellishments whatsoever
>>337901668
yeah, marketing your product to 5% of 13% of the population is totally a good idea instead of the 80-85% of the population
>>337902080
I agree with the statements of this man
WHITENESS IS A FUCKING MYTH AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FUCKING WHITE IDENTITY. USING WHITE PEOPLE FOR COVERS IS FUCKING PERFECT BECAUSE IT'S LITERALLY A NOTHING ON FRONT THAT YOU CAN JUST REPLACE EASILY IN YOUR HEAD JUST LIKE WHAT MODERN CORPORATIONS DO WHEN LOOKING FOR DIVERSITY.
>>337902813
Please stop. I need characters to look exactly like me so I can validate my pitiful existence.
I am nonwhite I couldn't care less about my race being represented on the cover of a game or not. You Americans will complain about anything
>>337899323
>we were about breaking down walls
>in videogames
Get this dumb fuck out of here.
>>337902910
>>337902813
>modern world is all white european
>surprised when modern stuff is marketed towards white europeans
also nice samefag, you cuck
>>337899323
M$hits did the right thing and perhaps one of the few things they did right, out of all the mistakes they've made.
Look at all the forced """progressive""" shit games, and look at how hard most of them tanked. Why? Pandering to a demographic that doesn't buy games doesn't wok.
You think they'd attract nigras by putting a black woman there? Or even a black guy? NO! Because niggers play either sports games, fighting games, or shooters. Also, they're more misogynistic than white males--at least white males would play a game with a female protag, if written well (and not as a femshit). You barely see niggers play a female character. If they can't play as a nigger, they'd rather play as a white guy than play as a woman.
Also, pandering to the nigger demographic doesn't work because they barely have any money. You'd only find them buying a few games, and they'd buy the kind of games that appeal to them culturally--that's why they like sports, fighting, or shooters. They won't risk playing other games that they may or may not like because of the money factor (or lack thereof). There's only so many times they could get away with mugging/theft/any crime before they get caught or killed, so they won't risk their """hard-earned""" dosh on games they might not even like. That's Psychology 101.
M$ sticking to their tried-and-true customer base will always be the right and only choice.
Basically this image. Who cares what you can do, because even with a black woman on the cover (which would sell less copies) the market is still white men.
>>337903118
Nigger what? I just made the all caps post as a joke because the logic works fine in the sjws philosophy. Why would I same fag support for a crap joke?
>>337899323
>"They said, 'What's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, 'I don't know.' They went, 'Princess and the Frog. Work it out.'
But... That's not true at all.
>>337899323
When you really think about it, I see their point. But I wouldn't put in a black woman, I'd put in some kind of argonian kind of monster or something.
>>337899323
>"missed the point" of Fable III
>where heroism is a title inherited by the upper class
No, I'd say they nailed it.
>>337901074
Fable 2 is easy, but it's not like 1 wasnt either. The biggest problem with 2 was how they removed armour and the shit storyline and ending.
>here are our demographics and marketing research to prove our point
>WELL FUCK YOU
Sounds accurate enough
The game was shit. Who cares what cover you put on shit?
>you can be whatever you want
Except I'm pretty sure you couldnt be black anyway.
Fable 3 had like 5 hairstyles and outfits anyway. It was a huge lack of content compared to 2.
>>337901074
piss off m8
>no armor
>less variety of weapons
>Plot much weaker
>very little memorable npcs
>>337904395
Dude, If you were a shit seller, you'd do your goddamn best to make a good cover.
Granted, It would be fitting then to put a black woman on the cover but you want to rake as much as possible before someone spreads the words that the shit in a pretty cover is fact just a pile of shit.
I mean, think a little
>>337899323
>>"They said, 'What's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, 'I don't know.' They went, 'Princess and the Frog. Work it out.'
Holy fuck
>>337899323
Marketing is serious business.
>>337899323
This shit reads like a scene out now The Big Lebowski.
Is this what real life is like? No wonder they got shut down.
>>337899323
The dev team should have full control over the product and should not have to bow to publisher demands (unless of course they breach the contract), but this isn't really about the product, it's about the marketing so it's completely right that the publishers decide what to do.
>>337905049
This, based as fuck Microsoft. Glad they killed lionhead now.
And the best argument he could bring to the table was "fuck you"
>"I was screaming at them in conference calls,"
How fucking mature. I swear even /b/ could do better than that
>>337904324
Pretty much this
>mfw all the idiots ITT who think this has anything to do with SJWs
The cover microsoft picked is generic trash, the one he would have picked probably also would have been trash
Should have just been a photo of a turd, at least then you know what you're buying
>>337905258
If someone's feelings are hurt you HAVE to listen to them. Arguments are fine and all, but you can't be insensitive to peoples feelings.
>>337905320
It has to do with SJWs because that's a legitimate argument for SJWs, but not for business people. Getting emotional and upset is how they get their point across because the argument isn't about economics, it's about the political agenda.
Imagining Microsoft execs and the art director shouting "Fuck you" at eachother is fucking hilarious.
>>337905470
What political agenda? Where do you see politics implicated anywhere in that article?
The guy wanted a Black Woman on the cover as a sort of message that "you can be whoever you want in this game", where the fuck does /politics/ come into play with that?
>>337905608
Maybe the fact that you literally can't be whoever you wanted in fable 3, and that retarded SJW dev only wanted some black sow on the cover because of bullshit political / muh diversity feelings.
>>337905608
cept you can't be black m8because black people can't be kings
>>337905582
Exclusive leaked footage from their meeting room: https://youtu.be/aY1tbb3iTzk?t=84
>>337905704
We dont know at what stage of development this happened , given how so much pissing was done over the cover I wouldn't be surprised if entire chunks of content were cut too. Molyneux isnt known for delivering on his promises.
But you still didnt answer my question.
>>337905608
If (if, because you can't) they could be anyone why did it have to be the absolute most underrepresented, which nobody wants, a strong independent black woman who don't need no man?
I thought /v/ was supposed be against censoring against the creator's intent.
>>337905837
Not when it's those darn ess jay double u's
The majority of /v/ is an echo chamber for /pol/
>>337899875
No, didn't have any blacks in school save gay alex who dropped out after kindergarten.
>>337905807
Because its the exact opposite of a white man, who can be found on most game covers. This makes sense to me since that was his intent for the game, breaking boundaries on what people can be in the game.
Again, where are the politics? Look up the word if you need to.
>>337899875
I remember that ugly black girl who got stabbed for blowing some other girls boyfriend.
I think we went to different schools.
>>337905837
But this censorship makes sense.
>>337905797
I did answer your question. The game does not give you the freedom to be whoever you want.
You will always be the younger brother/sister to the king when you start. You will always be white. You will always take power from him; the game does not give you the option to say fuck that and go live as a hermit.
Him saying he wanted some black bitch on the cover because 'you can be whatever hero you want' is a load of fucking shit. I don't know if any of the microshill execs actually played the game, but regardless, there is no reason to have a nigress on the cover other than the art director trying to shoehorn in muh diversity and muh racial issues and muh SJW feelings, and muh white genocide.
Fuck you, you got me to channel my inner /pol/.
>>337903064
Hey fuck you buddy, destructible environments is one of the easiest ways to make any piece of shit game enjoyable.
>>337899323
>We know what sells and that's f**king it. Stop the arguing.' I was like, 'F**k you!'
>'Princess and the Frog. Work it out.' I was like, "F**k you, man.
>"I was screaming at them in conference calls,"
Top fucking kek, what a bunch of babies.
Microsoft simply just arent completely braindead SJWs who want to throw money away making games no one wants
That doesnt mean they arent pieces of shit, you fucking retards
>>337905914
That is identity politics, which are all the rage. If they really wanted to show off that you can be anything you want they would do something different than showing the one thing most people DON'T want. Unless it's signaling for a political agenda, and that agenda is the breaking down of the male whiteness norm.
>>337905837
On the cover art? When they've signed on for fucking Microsoft of all people to publish it?
No fucking chance I'll care about that. I'll just laugh about him sperging out in the meeting and their studio dying and move on.
>>337899323
Of all the problems with Fable 3, having a white guy on the cover was the least of them. Seeing "They didn't get the game" is just odd in this context too, because
1) How does a black woman describe "You can be whoever!" anymore than a white guy?
2) Why were they focussing on such ridiculously unimportant issues instead of making the game actually good?
>>337906079
I absolutely despise Microshit, in particular because of the recent fuck up of windows, but I'll always choose them over SJWs.
Strange bedfellows.
>>337905837
Yes in the product, not the marketing.
>>337905797
Unless black heroes were pulled at the last possible second, no way would they start worrying about cover art earlier in development.
>>337905986
Again, you're making an assumption based on the game that was shipped, with the revised cover. We really don't know what could've been planned for the game among all those revisions.
At any rate, this still had absolutely nothing to do with SJWS, but marketing and demographics.
>>337906104
Its a really long stretch to call it an "agenda" when it is the man's vision for his game. He's not able to force anyone to play it, but wants to show whats possible in his game. Again this has nothing to do with spreading an agenda.Just waiting till I get called an apologist or something. Really I'm just surprised people are content in being so fucking shallow in their thinking, choosing to see it as nothing more than whites being terrorized once again by some brown mob. Its foolishness.
>>337906023
I don't understand this princess and the frog thing . English is my third langauge so I think I'm confused.
Did it not sell well or do shit for Disney because it's got princess on it ?
>>337906519
That's the implication, yes.
>>337899323
I am a minority and I am tired of people appealing to minorities.
If we can define our own character, then I want the cover character to be as neutral as possible, and a white male is more or less that.
>>337906519
It was a Black princess in the mvie and since White people only like White people doing things in movies it didnt do so well.
That's pretty much the ABC of it.
>Point of the game is supposedly that you could create any character you want.
>Instead of illustrating this by having a cover that shows multiple different characters with widely varying designs, representing the possibilities the player has, instead he wants to show just one person, which would make most people assume that is the only person you can play as, and on top of all that make it a person that 99% of the potential customers would never want to play as.
>constant censorship threads revolving around Nintendo and anime weebshit
>Microsoft literally censors developers
>but this is okay!
either it's okay all the time or it's not
>>337906280
One could argue that the cover, being part of the object that one purchases, is part of the product. Besides, that strikes me as an unnecessary double standard.
>>337906649
Good point. They could have easily come to a compromise but he chose to make a scene, not cool.
Me personally I'm just wondering why people think this has anything to do with SJWs and not really a failure in communication and also with understanding marketing. Its not like people havent done what Molyneux was going for, he just sucked at pulling it off.
>>337906649
So, every game with character editors?
>>337906623
Why does no one consider the fact that it was a 2D cartoon in an age when everyone only seems to be interested in cgi stuff outside Japan.
>>337905837
>>I thought /v/ was supposed be against censoring against the creator's intent.
>"""Progressives""" pro-censorship, even against creator's intent, if something offends them or goes against their narrative
>Anti-censorship when it's a """progressive""" getting censored
You can't have your double standard cake and eat it too.
>I want to do a thing about black people
>But the world is set in medieval fantasy europe
>"BUT I WANT I WANT I WANT IT I WANT IT"
>>337906704
Guy you might want to revisit your understanding of censorship, I think /v/ is having a poor influence on you.
>>337906704
You can't be black in this game. So unless Microsoft forced them to remove that feature and the guy somehow failed to mention it, this story makes no sense.
>>337906827
Are you really assuming the public is that discerning in their taste in Disney movies? A princess movie is a princess movie, if Frozen was done in 2D it would have done just as well as it did.
3D is only becoming big because its cheaper.
>>337906486
>but wants to show whats possible in his game
Save for the part where it's literally fucking impossible in "his" game.
>>337906827
The only people that are actually talking about that are Microsoft (who are using it as an argument for not including a black female, so they won't fucking mention it), and Lionhead (who can only vocalize arguments like "F**k you, man", and "F**k you!").
>>337906793
If that is the games main selling point, then you'll want to communicate that to the customer.
>>337906984
In the version we got, yes.
Not denying the story is fucking weird, hell it could be fake, but I'm trying to remain in context of the article which really gives us no timeframe for when all of this was happening
>>337906838
But isn't that what you're doing too? I disagree with all forms of censorship, from SJWs and big publishers alike. Some people in this thread only seem to disagree with censorship when it doesn't suit their beliefs.If the SJWs are wrong to censor, for example, sexual content, then surely Microsoft is also in the wrong in this instance?
>Its about being whatever hero you want
Yeah, because everybody wants to be a black woman. If that was the real case, then why not have no protagonist at all on the cover?
>>337906838
What are you saying? That it's OK for /v/ to be hypocrites because progressives are?
>>337907081
You couldn't even be black in the game so it would have been false advertisement.
>>337907081
>Microsoft is also in the wrong in this instance?
Microsoft isnt wrong because they want to make money and know that white people like to look at their own kind on the covers. If they dont hit those numbers they lose money, and vidogames are fucking expensive.
Molyneux is wrong in that he's unwilling to come up with a creative solution and is sticking to something that will sink the ship for everyone, when its very possible he can still convey the intent of the game through other means.
tl;dr this is why Lionhead is kill
>>337901074
Lucien is not the final boss, the big shard is.
>>337906705
I'd say that the product is the game. You don't play the cover, it's made for marketing purposes to get potential buyers interested. The game wouldn't be ANY different if the cover was blank. I have the digital copy and I bet the physical one sucks just as much as my coverless one does.
I don't see the double standard. The game developers should have 100% creative freedom over the game. This is marketing, and that the publisher shouldn't have the final say in marketing would be very odd.
So the reason why Fable 3 failed because the cover wasn't SJW friendly enough?
Honest question, can you even make your Fable 3 character look like the one on the cover? I know you can't in 2.
>>337907081
Also it's Microsoft product. They can do whatever the fuck they want with it. If they wanted creative freedom they should have either chosen a different publisher or published it themselves. It's not censorship when it's Microsoft product.
>>337899323
Black nerds don't p;lay WRPG's and pretend to be b;ack
they play JRPG's and pretend to be Japs
bad move lionhead
>>337907037
>but I'm trying to remain in context of the article
Being that jackass acting like a spoiled child and just shouting "fuck you" repeatedly at the people with the final say in the game's marketing. While he's there to negotiate the game's marketing.
Why should we give a shit about some thought experiment where this article isn't 6+ years late, the story fake, the game wasn't dogshit, that jackass didn't spectacularly fail at negotiating and didn't have the temper of a three year old?
>>337907342
>tfw I play JRPGs because they're generally better than WRPGS
>but they could also be vastly improved if they stopped pretending to need strategy with wanky turn-based shit and went full action, thank god FFXV and FF7R get the idea
>>337900773
I came here to laugh at you.
>>337907235
So if a western publisher censors a Japanese game so that it will sell better in the west, that is okay? Lionhead obviously didn't deal with this well, but an artist should be allowed their artistic decisions, even if they're stupid decisions.
>>337907227
That's a fair argument.
>>337907381
>Why should we give a shit about some thought experiment where this article isn't 6+ years late, the story fake, the game wasn't dogshit, that jackass didn't spectacularly fail at negotiating and didn't have the temper of a three year old?
not sure I follow you here...My idea is to really just examine this case without the silly lens of "muh SJW" all over the place
>>337907437
A company that makes shitty turn based games probably isn't going to make a good action one. Why do people think otherwise?
>>337907437
>he only plays Final Fantasy
There are plenty of turn-based games that require skill. Not even JRPGs.
There are also plenty of JRPGs that are not turn-based.
It's like you literally only played one video game series and then became a retard.
>>337899323
Easily one of the worst (non-broken) games I've ever played.
>>337907280
Not necessarily relevant to Fable 3, but if the publisher wants a game that's easy to market, they can easily enforce changes to the game to suit that. They could of course sell the game on a lie, which is even more dishonest. If there's one bunch I don't trust, it's MS' marketing squad.
In the end though, it doesn't change the fact that the game was bad.
>>337907503
>So if a western publisher censors a Japanese game so that it will sell better in the west, that is okay?
There's always a choice. Team Ninja decided not to bring one of their games over because they didnt want to deal with the drama of publishing in the West. The Japanese developers that choose to publish here should know what they're getting into and prepare to make adjustments, and many do, despite how badly it turns out for some games.
I'm not saying its right or wrong, but when you enter into these big money contracts it stops being a matter of whats "fair", its about what you agreed to.
If you dont like it, dont sign it.
>>337907562
If you have to make convenient guesses at how the game was instead of is to make your argument come together you've got a shit argument. You can assume it was fucking anything, and make any point that way.
>>337907647
>he mentions one game
>that must be all he plays
talk about illiterate, and dont bullshit around and say the vast majority of JRPGs arent turn based. One I do acknowledge as taking a little skill is Mainline SMT, many others are just clunky trash though.
>>337907562
>lens
Hello carl Benjamin :^)
>>337907762
I never made any guesses at what the game was, you idiot, I'm staying focused on what was said in the article and the ideas behind all the decisions made.
The big point is that Peter M. fucked up once again because of a bad approach to proving his point, and Microsoft was just playing it straight based on all relevant data concerning videogame covers.
This absolutely nothing to do with "SJW" bullshit like people want to say it is because they cant be bothered to think larger than fucking /pol/ memes.
>>337899323
Wow what a retard that McCormack dude.
Anyway fable 3 is the biggest pile of horseshit I ever played, fuck this game and fuck lionhead
>>337907635
it could speed the game up, at least.
Fuck lionhead they never made a good game post 2005 in my eyes i never even liked fable that much.
>>337908034
>/pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/ /pol/
Jesus fucking christ you're tiresome to talk to. If you're so intent on arguing about that shit then reply to someone who's fucking spewed it.
>I never made any guesses at what the game was
Then what the fuck was this post >>337907037 supposed to be about, if not you assuming the game was in an earlier stage of development at the time where you actually could play as a black in order to make your argument hold up?
>>337899323
fake and gay
you can't even be black in the game, who is the article trying to fool exactly?
>>337907698
Yes they COULD dick developers out of their creative freedom, but they SHOULDN'T for a vast number of reasons.
They also shouldn't lie in marketing, but I think that's another issue and has nothing to do with censorship because in MY opinion the creative freedom of the game developers don't extend further than the game. Again, I don't see the double standard. In this specific case they didn't lie with marketing, because you can choose to play as a white dude. You could maybe at one time also choose to play as a black lesbian and putting that on the cover wouldn't be any more or less dishonest. It would probably be a very bad business choice, though.
>>337908520
>You could maybe at one time also choose to play as a black lesbian
Nice theory that be both know never existed
>>337908616
I said you could MAYBE at one time, because it was kind of irrelevant to the argument. Maybe read.
>>337908456
>if not you assuming the game was in an earlier stage of development at the time where you actually could play as a black in order to make your argument hold up?
Because the events described obviously happened before the game was published....
If anything it makes even less sense to bring up the final game since the topic is all about what might have been, and why it didn't happen.
Again, concerning custom characters in Fable 3 we dont know what the fuck happened, but if we're trying to discuss this particular articles contents, then lets actually discuss it, stop falling into byways. But if you find that the discussion is fruitless because of what F3 turned out to be, then feel free not to respond, since we're really trying to touch on two different things.
>mfw tried replaying Fable TLC recently
I don't remember it being this bad
>>337900391
>>337901279
Anything is possible when your mom's a hoe.
>>337900114
it does sound like bullshit. I think McCormack is a lying faggot 2bh
>>337899323
While I think that developers should be able to do whatever they want with their own game and the image of that game I would contend his statement about Fable 3 being about doing new things or breaking down walls when it's one of the most buttoned down and generic entries in the series.
Literally a by the numbers RPG that did nothing significant differently from it's predecessors and stapled gimmicks onto the front to pretend they were being creative.
So yeah, fine, have a black woman on the front. Why would I care what the cover character looks like as long as the game is good? But Fable 3 wasn't good, it wasn't fun, it wasn't creative and it wasn't new or interesting. It was boring, bland and had less features than previous entries in the series.
So I'm saying that I agree with him on it not being fair for the publishers to pull something like that. However I am also saying that Fable 3 was garbage anyway so it doesn't really fucking matter because a change of cover won't fix an inherently shitty game.
>>337908520
Of course I'm not suggesting that they should dick with the game for marketing. I'm just suggesting that the marketing team, in their quest to market the game, can influence the game design. In turn, giving publishers free reign of the marketing could limit the creators freedom as they might feel they're forced to create a product that's marketable. I wasn't really suggesting that this happened in this exact scenario, as Lionhead is more than capable of fucking over their own game without the help of others.
>>337899323
I know it's not available on any online stores anymore but does the PC port work on Windows 10?and if so is multiplayer possible?
>>337908923
Ok I guess their discussion about the fucking box art made them draw up the whole king's kid storyline and scrap being able to play as a black. That's totally reasonable, absolutely more so than looking at the only definitive information we actually have access to.
>>337909202
I'm not sure you understand what I just told you. I don't care about how the game turned out, I'm interested in examining the article itself.
>>337901074
>muh challenge
I wish people would shut up with this because they never mean it. If people actually wanted challenge then Far Cry 2 would be the most loved in the series and God Hand would be one of the best selling video games in history.
>>337908797
It's a game based in 15th to 17th century britain
It's like honestly believing Bioware when they say they had sliders to play as a white guy in Jade empire
It never existed and its entire existence is a meme of which you are trying to base an entire argument off of
>>337909327
You mean you desperately want to take his word for it despite >>337907381
>>337909376
No, my argument was about whether publishers putting a white guy on the cover of a video game with customizable characters is dishonest or not.
>>337909517
I'm just interested in looking at the business side of things. Lionhead failed and this article provides us some really interesting tidbits on why, the fact that Fable 3 didnt have its promised diversity is a very telling thing on its own, but it dosent end the discussion like some people think it should. Again I think its just about what we're wanting to focus on.
>>337909592
Then your arguments retards to begin with, because why not just go one step further and say any person on the cover at all is wrong because its YOU playing the game?
it doesn't matter in the slightest and you are mildly retarded
>>337909592
I'd call it "playing it safe". The simple fact is that white faces do sell, but its not like they're saying you can only play as the white guy, hell there could be a mentioning of the customization on the back cover.
>>337909612
>He still thinks the article is genuine
>>337901460
There were many, but only one or two npcs
>>337909906
Can you prove its false without going
>le gamespot
?
>>337899323
I don't think they said those words.
>>337909612
So what's worth focusing on? That the article's more than half a decade late? That the story's probably a lie? That McCormack's vocabulary seems to consist mainly of "fuck" and "you"? That he's got all the negotiative strength of a mudcaked fucking brick? That he has a worse temper than most infants? That what he wanted to market the game as something it's not?
Or the oh so horrible fact that Microsoft wanted to make money and made the right decision for it. Who could have thought, Microsoft, of all people. I can't believe it, I refuse to, that after all these years and earning everyone's trust Microsoft Studios is just in the video game industry for the money. It's unthinkable.
AGAIN OP?
>>337909810
>your argument retards in the first place
he didn't say what his argument was in that post...
>>337909810
I think maybe you should read what I've argued for. I don't think that it is dishonest. You're just imagining that I take a position than I don't take and then you get upset about it.
>>337899323
Only you played as the hero on the cover... This is Tim Schafer levels of peepeepoopoo waaah. I liked Fable 3 story, I think the environments are gorgeous but the game was rushed as fuck. The 18 month dev cycle mentioned there is a proof they've mishandled the contract.
Shame too. The game had potential and if combat and ruling parts got more fleshed out, it would've been great.
>>337910098
I thought I was going crazy for a second
friendly reminder that you couldn't fuck Page in Fable III
>>337908923
>boxart isnt the last fucking thing you work on
>lets stop discussing this angle because I'm quickly appreciating it makes me look stupid
>>337910084
Bro, chill. I straight up said that Microsoft was more in the right than wrong in this situation and that McCormack fucked up pretty bad in how he handled it. Honestly everything you just said...
I think its because I'm aBusiness Studentthat articles like this have a particular interest to me, its pretty much a case study.
And like I said before, if you don't think this angle is worth exploring just don't respond.
>>337910270
dat racist
>>337909982
You can't even play as a black person in the game, so either the story is fake, or they were forced to remove that feature from the game, and if that was the case then it would probably be a much more important story than the cover design.
>>337905220
Cover art is definitely in the publisher's domain. Marketing is their business.
>All this recent fable shilling
Kind of seems like they're trying to make fable relevant again with viral posting.
As if they're about to announce a new fable game...
>>337910461
The only thing of value here is McCormack being a prime example of how not to try and negotiate.
The Microsoft guys were right, and there's nothing he could have said to change that fact.
>>337910553
Yes that's what I said.
>a black female on a video game cover is social justice
The only thing wrong with it is that you can't actually play a black female so why putting her on the cover to begin with
>>337910501
It's not racist it's just gay
She's probably thesecondfirst being the Hero Princessmost attractive woman in the game and she's CANNOT HAVE. Fucking Fable III
>>337899323
That entire article is nothing but hearsay and the author can't even proof check his own writing. 0/10 worst bait.
>WHAT? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW? YOU TOOK THAT ANIME GIRLS CLEAVAGE OUT? YOU FUCKING PIECES OF TRASH, KILL YOURSELVES IM NEVER BUYING YOUR GAME AGAIN! What? it's not like im some kind of perv, I just really care about the first amendment and the constitution, back off
>Fable 3 gets censored but from people you agree with
>based Microsoft!
>>337910626
Lionhead, the creators of Fable, got shut down by Microsoft, the latest Fable got cancelled, and ex-Lionhead employees are shittalking Microsoft now that they can, probably.
In all likelihood you couldn't be more wrong.
>>337910553
I was elected to lead, not to read
>>337910642
Yeah, you know, just like how Nintendo Treehouse is completely in the right in all its localisation choices. They're trying to sell a product here.
>>337910874
Here's your (you)
Oh and there's a bit of a gap between taking something out of the actual product and changing something on the cover of a product
>>337910874
>Marketings strategies is the game
Nice opinion you have there.
>>337910850
Hearsay is second-hand information. This is first-hand information. Unless you're going to assume he's lying for no reason and you want a recording of the meetings, you can't really get any closer to the source.
>>337899323
I agree with MS here to not have sjw bullshit on covers of games but, for completely different raisons. If this turns into a thing watch MS go pc and apologize and shit.
>>337910850
>hearsay
Might want to Google the definition
>you can be any kind of hero you want! ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE
>please choose between a girl and a boy because you can be either a princess or a prince
>this has wild consequences; a love interest that lasts for a few minutes happens around mid-game
>anything and everything is possible!!
![Divinity-Original-Sin_3_388[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/pEg5PF8.jpg "Divinity-Original-Sin_3_388[1].png")
>>337911057
>Oh and there's a bit of a gap between taking something out of the actual product and changing something on the cover of a product
Is that so?
>>337910974
political agenda vs demographic appeal
money is objectively right, so opposing demography is always wrong
>>337911106
Tim Schafer also claimed corporate meddling being the reason for Brutal Legend cancellation. Kotick actually proved everyone wrong.
>>337910438
Not quite. I dont think they would argue the cover choice if it wasnt supposed to reflect the game in some shape or form, so again unless we get more than word-of-mouth of when exactly this happened it could've been at the very start of development for all we know.
>>337910502
Right, we could probably dig up some old articles on what was promised during the early stages of Fable 3 advertisement but I dont think anyone is that committed to the discussion.
In the end whats we're looking at behind this article is I guess another snippet of the complete circus that is AAA development.
Its weird how something that would seem to be so inconsequential as a game cover imply so much more behind the scenes at the studio & its relationship with the publisher, again I'm not surprised they ultimately fell apart.
>>337911145
>sjw bullshit
>black guy holding a gun/sword/whatever
I get being anti-SJW or whatever, but there's literally nothing wrong or SJW with someone who's not white being on a video game cover
>>337900448
I've found every fable game boring but fable legend looked promising
>>337910974
I don't have a Wii Woo Yipee so I wouldn't know. You know, every other word out of your mouth has been about /pol/, and now you bring up some weebshit controversy like I'm supposed to care. You could put a little more effort into maintaining your alias.
i it were for dark souls fable would have never even been made
>>337900773
Armors sucked
Corruption/purity sucked
Vegan shit sucked
Being always fat sucked
Final boss sucked
Fighting sucked
Magic sucked
Fable TLC was perfect.
>>337911219
That's just like, your opinion, man.
Not only that you're also just guessing.
So because they allegedly did the same thing as Microsoft for what in your eyes are the wrong reasons, they are scum of the Earth but Microsoft are the saviours of gaming?
>>337911329
That guy isnt me, and I dropped the /pol/ thing which you should clearly remember, given we were going at it for the past 10 minutes lol. Your last post I have no real quibble with, its more or less what I already covered.
>>337911329
I don't know which Anonymous poster you think I am but I don't think I am.
Going back up the reply chain a bit it seems the person(s) you were talking to earlier also didn't mention /pol/ a whole lot so I'm beginning to suspect you might be severely paranoid.
![Ltt3uxA[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RFXeXeA.jpg "Ltt3uxA[1].jpg")
>>337911057
>Oh and there's a bit of a gap between taking something out of the actual product and changing something on the cover of a product
Remember the shitstorm over this?
>>337901074
Nah the thing that pissed me off was the collectables in 2 had shit rewards, most of the demon doors were just there to laugh at you. The reward for shooting all the gargoyles is a piece of shit crossbow, literally the worst ranged weapon out of the bunch, the reward for finding all silver keys is a 50% rebate on that castle you just bought.
>>337911418
a) nice strawman extremes, retard, and b) they did the opposite of microsoft, retard.
>>337911228
>Kotick actually proved everyone wrong.
Because when you hear it from Kotick it's not hearsay?
Regardless, if you'd read the article, you'd notice a paragraph pointing out that not everyone at Lionhead shared McCormack's experiences.
>>337911205
I'm pretty sure the Twitter Troopers aren't Larian's publishers. Not quite the same situation.
>>337911264
Your not entirely correct. See, nobody complains that Lightning or Faith are on the cover of their games. But,its stupid when the sjw dev just wants to have it there to not have whites or men. Or when it feels forced and unnecessary like the cucked swedes putting the nigger there to show the black courage and heroism of those black men and how they will raise above whites.
>>337911264
It's SJW as fuckbut you're right that it's not wrong.
>>337911510
much more annoying is that they never fixed her fingers even in the changed version
fucking hell how blind are artists sometimes?
>>337900114
>sounds like bullshit tbqh
SJWs Always Lie.
>>337911547
>nice strawman extremes
It's called hyperbole, friendo.
>they did the opposite of microsoft, retard
Right, because Microsoft made creative changes against the developers' express wishes, whereas Treehouse...
>>337911647
>But,its stupid when the sjw dev just wants to have it there to not have whites or men.
Such as in the case of....?
>KEK lmao raise above whites
That's just stupid anon
>>337911640
Twitter didn't order them to change anything, their publisher did after looking at the response the image got.
>>337911640
It's exactly the same. The artist's boss told him to change it in order to appeal to a certain demographic, and so he did.
Did they even read the Eurogamer article??
It says in the paragraph right before that it is employee/s of third-party marketing firm hired by Microsoft that said these things NOT Microsoft themselves
>>337911647
It's never not going to be "forced" or "unnecessary" to racists. That's why these things are actually extremely necessary.
>>337911938
lol guess i fucked up
>>337911572
Tim Schafer tried to make it like big bad Kotick is after him, while Kotic explained how Schafer missed every milestone and deadline and demanded more cash
>>337900114
>>337911789
It is probably a paraphrase, yeah, unless you think he was taking notes or has perfect recall?
But he probably covered the gist of those meetings.
>>337911793
the developer wanted the publisher to lie about the content of the game.
>>337905837
Most of site users are inconsistent red pills
>>337912026
And which part of that made it not hearsay?
>>337899323
Fable III had promise but I'm still salty after all of this time that they didn't give you a fucking warning before passing the point of no return. No message, not even a subtle comment from your butler. absolutely disgusting
>>337905732
FUCK U KRAKKA WE WUZ KANGS N SHIEEEEET
>>337912039
I don't think that's particularly relevant to the situation, but anyway, if a publisher wants to slap a T on a cover, in order for that not to be a lie, some changes might have to be made sometimes, yes?
>>337911860
>their publisher
>>337899323
>Lionhead: "Can we put black woman as cover?"
>Microsoft: "No."
>SJWS BTFO!!!
Really?
It seems like you guys put every fucking thing to SJW's.
Gamergate was a huge mistake.
>>337911828
This very one.
>>337911956
>It's never not going to be "forced" or "unnecessary" to racists.
Fucking regressive, you aint going to fool me with this shit. I can you you right there sitting your unemployed fatass next to your wife's black son. Go vote for Bernie if you still can and get triggered by a Sargon of Akkad video.
>>337905837
>the creator's intent.
But this isn't creator's intent.
They never intended to have a black person on the cover because you can't even play as a black person.
This is just some disgruntled ex-Lionhead employee stirring shit.
>>337899323
Can't wait for one of the pull in studio-devs that still work for MS to call him out on his shit because this is 100% bullshit
>"They said, 'What's the most unsuccessful Disney film? I was like, 'I don't know.' They went, 'Princess and the Frog. Work it out.' I was like, "F**k you, man.' I hated it."
who talks like this
If you're really that dedicated to black cock/vagina then fucking make a reversible cover. If they actually gave a single fuck about their product and their words they would have made a reversible so no one is left out, you choose what your hero looks like, you choose what cover you want.
But they're full of shit so thats why it didn't happen and why Microsoft saw straight through it.
>>337912225
what the fuck are you talking about? all through this thread I've seen you make the shittiest most nonsensical arguments to avoid acknowledging how absolutely BTFO every one of your retard arguments have been.
The rating is not affected by skin tone or gender. how the fuck is the content of the game not relevant to the cover? what the fuck is wrong with you? are you Molyneux?
>>337912269
>This very one
The developer wanted a black female there in order to express to the consumer you can play your own character, not because he wanted to have a nonwhite nonfemale. Again what does that have to do with social justice?
>Microsoft clearly has an agenda here
>let's call Lionhead SJW
never change, /v/
>>337899323
Like most SJW bulkshit this can be filled under:
>things that never happened
I look forward to Microsoft's response.
>>337912460
How dare MS does the things they do
Not false advertising their games just to get brownie points
>>337912246
/v/ just really likes looking for SJWs to "combat"
Not sure if it's gotten better or worse
>>337912460
pretty much why I made a point to remove SJW from the vocabulary of this conversation, it always invites the mouthbreathers
>>337912460
Microsoft has the agenda of making money.
>>337911994
I'm not blaming OP or anyone in this thread, I'm blaming the shoddy video games """"journalist"""" that wrote this article.
>"The marketing was shit," he says. "It was terrible. They just didn't get it. But it wasn't Microsoft's marketing.
>>337912460
When you think of nerdy fantasy game players that was to self insert as a king in their fantasy land who do you think of? Eugine or Shaniqua.
>>337912641
What at all does that have to do with SJWs?
>publisher straight up limits the artistic freedom of a developer out of greed
>it's okay because it's the bad kind of artistic freedom that goes against my agenda because it has brown people and women in it
That was way in the past though.
Right now we have afrikaner kingdoms in AoE on the cover.
SJW pandering became mainstream.
>>337912269
>Fucking regressive
No, fuck you. You know what's regressive? Holding on to standards of "progressive" that are by now half a century old. Or shouting that it's "all about class!" whenever people bring up racial or gendered issues, as if all we'd have to do is wait around for the revolution and all our problems will be solved, and in the meantime there's nothing to be done anyway. It's pretty fucking regressive to claim to be a leftist and then parrot right-wing talking points fed to you by some opportunistic propagandist because you're not well-versed enough in political theory to recognise it. It's goddamn regressive to support leftist causes right up until the point where they personally inconvenience you.
I'm not the "regressive" left. I'm a leftist who actually understands his shit, who stands for the same values and principles that the left always has, and who doesn't compromise them when it gets hard. The regressive ones are the ones who rest on their laurels, coasting on the victories of civil rights movements past, complaining about how true activists "hijacked" the movement from them, fair weather liberals who want nothing more but to maintain the status quo.
Remember when pastebin was used for threads like this?
http://pastebin.com/aE5KuAfr
>>337912743
Having WE WUZ on the cover makes sense because he is one of the factions
>>337912412
>all through this thread I've seen you make the shittiest most nonsensical arguments to avoid acknowledging how absolutely BTFO every one of your retard arguments have been.
Who do you think I am?
>The rating is not affected by skin tone or gender
No, it's not. It's affected by titties, though. So, it's entirely justified to remove them. In fact, lying about the rating could have actual consequences. Putting a character on the cover who doesn't even appear in the game is something many games have gotten away with, especially RPGs where you can create your own character.
>>337912727
If they wanted to micromanage the marketing, maybe they shouldn't have signed on to have Microsoft publish their game?
You've heard the name before, right? Microsoft. Must ring a bell. You see, they're actually quite well known. And not for being the most subtle fellows around either. They should have some idea of what signing off the marketing to Microsoft would entail.
>>337912460
>Microsoft clearly has an agenda here in this conversation that never happened
>>337912770
so literally a rebel without a cause, your generation's grand crusade: videogames
>>337912414
Could that have been conveyed with a white female too? a white man? Or a chink character? Why did he specifically need a nigger woman? It was Fable, create a character was implied to the damn fans.
Maybe the dev had no sjw agenda behind wanting a nigger, maybe, but, im just not convinced. MS did the right call.
>>337912770
I told you to fuck off.
