>"Story in a game is like story in a porn movie... Its not that important" -John Carmack
Do you agree with him?
Depends on the genre. Stick to tech, Carmack.
>>337786981
Absolutely stupid Mitamoto-tier comment. These cunts from the 70s, of course he'd say something dumb like this.
He's wrong.
a video game should just be a series of cutscenes narrating the story with small quick time events littered in between to keep the player on his toes.
Depends on how you define story. Some people treat one little narrow streak of the game's material as being the "story", some people see that the overall story is something co-created between the player and the game (a story-space).
When some random guy makes comments on "stories in games", I don't know if he's coming from a stupid idiot's conception of story, or something more complete and well observed. So, who knows?
I think that if you want your game to have a story it better be important. Like don't make me listen to all this bullshit I don't care about with your made up country and made up characters if it's not going to be good.
Otherwise don't bother. There are plenty of games made today that work the same as those old arcade games where you get a little blurb when you first start it up to establish the setting and then you play the next 600 hours without any interruptions.
>>337787185
Hello, Neil Druckmann
>>337786981
well, that depends on the game.
I'd prefer if a game focused on what it was good at, that being gameplay, but if it comes with a good story that's done in a way that complements the gameplay then its all good.
t.writer
>>337786981
He's 100% right. There's a reason we have the terms "interactive movie". A video game is a GAME. Not a STORY.
Since no video game has ever had a good story, he's definitely one hundred percent correct. Anyone who disagrees has not read much.
But I watch hentai for the story
That is dumb.
I wouldn't play a game like battlefield or Dark Souls for the story.
I wouldn't play a game like the Walking Dead or Beyond Two Souls for the gameplay.
What a complete fucking nut.
I bet he is Californian or Canadian.
best pornos have good stories
>>337786981
Exactly like the story of his life
I agree with him completely
Nothing can save a game if isn't mechanically solid and fun to play.
That said, if a developer can achieve both, more power to them, but gameplay should come first.
>>337787360
Why would you "play" a "game" like TWD or Beyond?
No, I watch gay porn for the story all the time.
>>337787487
because they are good experiences
If you play video games or watch porn you are a manchild.
So, he is partly right.
>>337787487
I bet you don't enjoy anything.
>>337786981
Depends on the game. You can make a story-focused game or a gameplay-focused game and both can be good. Although story-focused games tend to be made by people who'd rather be making movies and as a result often turn out to be shit. One example of a good story-focused game is Soma, which wouldn't have worked as a movie at all.
>>337787360
Regardless if theyre actually games or not, I bet there's a way to do those well even without a real story and have it simply be an experience
I have a job and school, so I'm inclined to agree with him. Just like porn, I think story based games have a place, but shouldn't be the main draw. I want to play some fucking games, not have a failed screenwriter force his shitty story down my throat while my character puts his finger on his ear.
>>337786981
Agreed, The change to cinematics and cut scenes where the player has not even control anymore combined with "mash one button to win quick time event" are pandering to people I don't like. Most games tell shitty stories anyway
Depends on the genre.
A shooter doesnt need a story, a rpg does.
A good story can enhance a game and a bad story can just be ignored.
>Megatextures are the future!
>VR is the future!
>Buy my game!
>BUY MY GAME
>REEEEEEE
-John "Washed up hack" Carmack
>>337787141
>Mitamoto-tier
>Two people who revolutonalized the medium are stupid
Says who?
>>337786981
I agree almost 100%. Even a story-driven game like Catherine had the best, most-challenge puzzles around and was better for it.
"Fucking, Blocks! I'M GONNA CLIMB THE SHIT OUT OF YOU"
>>337787341
i enjoy the story in some hentais
>love monkey island
>can't stand cutscenes longer than 30 seconds
fuck story in games
>>337786981
Yeah with games like Doom ofcourse
Otherwise, no, that's one of the dumbest thing I ever heard.
>>337787360
I wouldn't have enjoyed Dark Souls nearly as much if not for the story.
>>337787574
>Beyond
>Good experience
I'd say the setting more important than stories in vidya.
>>337787604
What?
How?
How would you make a story-based game about how your decisions affect the story, but without a story?
What? No.
No that's dumb.
If someone did that, that game would suck dick.
>>337786981
depends on the game entirely, if it's a story driven game like an RPG, then it needs a good story. It's very hard to play a roleplaying game with no worldbuilding, no character development, and no story, unless you are Fallout 3+
>>337787748
You mean lore? Not much in terms of story in the actual game
>>337786981
Not quite, but gameplay will always be the most important factor of a game. If a game has a god tier story but shitty gameplay it's shit.
![1343558102236[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n1iJUoG.jpg "1343558102236[1].jpg")
Nah, story in a game can be very important. It depends on the genre though. In a game like Doom? Who the fuck cares, go shoot some demons. In a game like The Walking Dead? Nearly the entire appeal despite the point and click gameplay. In a lot of cases story can easily help people ignore shitty gameplay too. Something like Planescape Torment or Nier doesn't have great gameplay when you really look at it, but the stories helped a lot in looking past the flaws. Story in general can also help make gameplay better. A good example is DMC3. Fighting Vergil is fun as is, but knowing the rivalry and set up to the fights makes them even more intense and interesting. The combat is fun no matter what, but knowing there's this burning rivalry between two evenly matched brothers helps make the fight so much better.
Story in a game can be not important, a decent addition, or the only appeal of a game. It depends on the genre and type of gameplay. Games that just focus on gameplay are great, but adding in a good story doesn't necessarily hurt it.
Also, that comparison is bullshit. For a lot of people story and set up in porn is specifically what helps them get off. Lots of people are more interested in the context of lewd shit rather than the sex itself. Similar to video games it depends on what the person is looking for, what they enjoy, and what it's trying to appeal to.
>>337787748
luckily , dark souls doesn't shower you in cutscenes every 2 minutes, and you can skip if for next runs
>>337787748
I'm the opposite.
I think the story in the Soul's series is kind of a joke. However, I do think it helps inspire the excellent level design.
>>337787846
You can make point and click adventures with no story. Thus showing that yes a story can serve a point and click adventure but it's not a necessity
Depends on a game
>>337786981
Why not both?
>>337787917
So pretty much every game out there?
>>337787902
You worked hard on this post.
It is a good post.
>>337786981
Depends on the game.
Some games really depend on the story, like Walking Dead or 999. Others... depend mainly on the gameplay.
>>337786981
depends on the game, but an answer like that wouldn't garner any attention I guess
that's the great thing about videogames
you can have ALL of it, you don't have to choose
>>337787902
Great post anon.
>>337787440
This made me chuckle, for some reason.
>>337788031
yep , exactly , because being forced to walk during 30 minutes slow . while listening to retards talking about shit you don't care about , its the same as watching a 30 seconds cutscene every 10 hours
>>337787989
Then that isn't a game about a story. So it doesn't apply. I was originally talking about games centered around a story. If the story doesn't matter, then that's a different game altogether.
John Carmack said that because he's an unfeeling robot. He doesn't care about story because writing and creativity are human concepts.
>tfw these are the kinds of people that make your videogames
why haven't you started making your own videogame yet and BTFO them /v/?
>>337788197
>implying you can't skip the cutscenes in most games
>>337786981
No. Games shouldn't aspire to be movies, but should instead have their own form of story and storyteling based on player interaction. You know, something no other form of entertainment can do.
>>337787251
What you said is bullshit.
If you are making a crpg with million plots and quests, developed lore is a given especially since Western tradition of rpg is based on table top games.
Of course it has to be good, that's a given, just like character building and gameplay being good.
>>337787917
It's definitely the kind of presentation that I prefer. Koizumi puts it really well in this interview. http://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/
>For example, I always liked the idea of you coming upon another character and hearing little bits of conversation that slowly begin to reveal different parts of the story.
>>337787989
What's a point and click with no story exactly? Just a series of puzzles?
No, because he's being purposefully limitative.
He's comparing an entire medium to a sub-genre of another medium that serves a very specific purpose.
Stories in games don't have to be important, but they can.
>>337786981
this guy and miyamoto need to shut up about story.
AA and Zero Escape are better than any games these guys ever made
>>337786981
Depends. I like story when it comes to certain genres. Most of the time you really don't need one, though.
Not really. A game is a complex product of many elements, the story is just one of them. As long as well done elements outweigh badly made ones your game will be good. Doom may not need need a story because of how amazingly dynamic its gameplay is, but Legacy of Kain can pass its mediocre gameplay on the basis of the fantastic story holding the player. It's when all elements are bad you get shit gameslike D44M.
>>337786981
Actually, in porn, story can do a lot, if executed even half-decently.
Which is why hentai is so popular.
>>337788317
>forced to walk while listening
>cutscene
>changing the goalpost
dont you have some shilling to do?
>>337787479
But that depends on a genre
Definition of a game is way too broad anyway, stuff like wolf among us absolutely has right to exist and is enjoyable, but on every level including technical the only thing it has in common with DaS is that it's an interactive program with real time rendering.
>>337788228
They're still at base point and click adventures regardless of if they're story centric. Besides having a plot,a story centric point and click isn't anything different.
For the most part, yes. Video games have universally awful writing. Not a single exampke of a video game manages to rise above the muck of comic book tier anti-intellectual drivel... which is fine for someone whose not retarded. I like video games in the same way I like baseball and football which is to say a way to socialize with other people and let off steam. I have plenty of books and movies if I want to stimulate my brain.
>>337788560
quentin posting is old hat dude no one cares anymore
>>337788368
>What's a point and click with no story exactly? Just a series of puzzles?
An adventure or experience.
I suppose y'all just haven't seen Sensational Janine.
>>337787696
Not the medium, but the genre, and mostly the technical aspect if it. Even if we assume that the quote is real, Carmack would still be wrong during the time he said it. Not in the context of games Carmack made, he's absolutely right in that regard, but in a context of all games.
>>337788246
How about read a book if you want writing instead of the trash you get in video games?
>>337786981When I watch porn, I usually go to next video as soon as they stop talking and start fucking
>>337787902
The Walking Dead is a shitty game though and video games would be better off without things like that.
>>337788860
Are you saying that most of the books are worth reading?
>>337786981
To an extent. Story in vidya provides motivation to continue, it's possible to have a fleshed out story in a good game. The problems arise when you have a fleshed out story in a bad game, where the focus IS the story.
It's not really comparable to story in porn. Story in porn doesn't need to motivate the user to get to the end.
>>337788860
How about play a board game if you want gameplay?
>>337787593
I like video games that have gameplay in them.
I also like books with good stories.
I keep the two separate because they are both better than the other in what they individually do.
Books aren't very entertaining when you play them at chess.
>>337788938
Sadly for you, Quests and text adventures are one of the oldest genre that shaped the industry more, than the FPS beginnings of Carmack
>>337786981
He has a good point,
Gameplay is king
If a game has good gameplay, it doesn't need a story, or the story is expected, but it's ok for it to be shit.
if the gameplay is terrible, then it needs a decent story to prevent it from being a terrible game.
Yes, i play games for the gameplaying part.
Only real answer here:
No/It depends.
In Carmacks case this is true, in all games he's worked on story doesnt matter. It's just pure fun gameplay.
If we take a game like Wolf Among Us instead, story plays a really important role.
>>337789007
>turn based games
>gameplay
>>337788560
>He stimulates his brain with books and movies instead of LSD
Faggot
![1342898065751[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/A6WaR89.jpg "1342898065751[1].jpg")
>>337788938
Well that's just up to your own personal opinion. But at the end of the day even for people who do enjoy TWD they don't praise it for the point-and-click gameplay. The story is what supports it and made it successful.
And I disagree personally. I quite like games like TWD, 999, and Ace Attorney. The gameplay is simplistic but I still enjoyed them. I don't think the industry would be better off if every game was just focused solely on gameplay. Variety is good, and the occasional story-focused game is a fun deviation.
>>337788959
Are you saying there's a single video game with a story worth telling? No. My little anon wouldn't make a bold claim like that especially since its untrue.
>>337789007
How about you fuck off to /co/ if you want to talk about graphic novels?
>>337789069
>If a game has good story, it doesn't need gameplay, or the gameplay is expected, but it's ok for it to be shit
>if the story is terrible, then it needs decent gameplay to prevent it from being a terrible game
goes both ways anon
>>337786981
He's wrong, both about the vidya and porn.
>implying story in porn doesn't matter
>whn there are literally dozens of different categories of pornography, including roleplaying, cartoon porn, hentai, different scenarios etc.
It just proves that Mr. Cocksmack is a casual in both vidya and porn.
>>337789127
>being proud of having ADD
>>337789159
Grim Fandango.
>>337789183
not at all.
a "good story but bad gameplay" is where games like Gone Home or Dark Souls come in. They're just Terrible Games, and the only reason people likes them is the story.
>>337788197
You mean like Half Life 2?
>>337789159
Define worth telling
>>337787320
Yeah, same with books.
There's a reason we have a term "static movie". A book is a BOOK. Not a STORY.
>>337786981
I'd be much more forgiving of a game with shit story and great game play than a game with shit gameplay and a great story.
So yes.
>>337789159
Most of the Space Quest games,
most Final Fantasies
>>337789054
Those are also things called gamebooks which are the same exact thing and both are pretty shit.
Neither really pioneered anything about video game design.
Honestly, I don't even watch the sex parts of porn because it always looks really gross and the way the women do nothing but say "Oh fuck me fuck me fuck me" makes them sound weird and inhuman like they have no souls or personality. The very beginning before they have sex is more interesting to me because of the scenarios being set up.
Like when there's porn of a student and teacher having sex. I just imagine what the tension is like, having this forbidden relationship because they love each other that much.
>>337789183
>"If a game has good story, it doesn't need gameplay"
>Doesn't realize how retarded this statement is
>>337789387
>Final Fantasy
No. Final Fantasy doesn't even end up in top 100 of RPG stories.
yes, if all a game has going for it is the story it's a bad game period.
>>337789183
>If a game has good story, it doesn't need gameplay, or the gameplay is expected, but it's ok for it to be shit
If a game has a good story and shit gameplay, why bother playing it? Just watch it on youtube.
>>337789490
Then how will Sony make any money?
>>337789479
Why do you think the Gone Home, The Last of Us, or Uncharted Games, got popular.
They are all story and no gameplay.
>>337789540
Oh, sorry.
>>337789540
by making ads on the youtube.
>>337786981
>story in porn doesn't matter
that is the furthest thing from the truth.
No.
There should be a story but it shouldn't ever come in the way of gameplay.
>>337789383
>the opposite of interactive is "static"
His point was pretty bad, but you're also retarded, congrats you're both retards on the internet so now you can suck each other off while I watch from my lofty perch of superior intellect and wisdom.
>>337789546
>The Last of Us, or Uncharted Games
Gone Home sure, you just go around examining shit. But you do realize TLoU and Uncharted are third-person shooters, right? There's a difference between shit gameplay you don't enjoy and little to no gameplay. Hell, a majority of TLoU is spent scrounging around for items and staying at dick level trying to avoid insta-kill enemies. Cutscenes that stop the gameplay are pretty sparse.
Games can have all the stories they want, just make sure that everything else works fine first. Also an option to skip/fast forward is welcome.
Games like Witcher 3 and Uncharted 4 are enhanced by its story a lot and I think they are amazing experiences because of what would otherwise be kinda mediocre.
But then you have shit like Beyond Two Souls, Order 1886 or Quantum Break that tries hard to have a deep story but it fails in every regard because it's just so boring and uninteresting and badly made, ugh. And then they have mediocre gameplay, which brings the whole game down even further.
It depends on the game, granted for a game like Doom, Serious Sam, Street Fighter etc. it rings true but for say Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, Fallout etc. it's pretty false.
>>337789774
I only played the first two hours of TLoS / Uncharted 3.
and the gameplay was
>find where in this area to go to start the next cutscene.
>>337789696
>implying I said interactive is opposite of static
>implying books are not static
Anon, It hink you are trying a little too hard.
It makes you sound retarded.
>>337786981
Jesus Christ are you fucking retarded? It depends on the game. A Bioshock game relies heavily on its story, but in a DOOM game it's just there to explain why you're murdering demons.
Why can't people into context anymore these days? People are becoming more and more retarded.
Fuck.
>>337789696
>now you can suck each other off while I watch
You fucking gay or something boy?
Hoe about I shit in your open mouth m8? You seem like someone who would enjoy that.
>>337789912
>can't refute my superior point
>resorts to name calling
I think we're done here kiddo.
>>337789909
Liar!
Sure TLOU is a bit slow at start, but Uncharted 3?
>pub fight
>exploration/platforming/rooftop chase sequence
>platforming and shootout
>shootout, platforming, "puzzle", escape from burning building while shootout
>>337789546
>Why do you think the Gone Home, The Last of Us, or Uncharted Games, got popular.
Because most people are too stupid to pick up a book and read it anymore.
Just consider this:
Only bottom of the barrel writers with 0 talent who would never make it in any industry other than video games choose to write for video games.
The Walking Dead is no exception. Game of Thrones is no exception.
People would rather buy these shoddy knock off third rate "games" for extra storylines in these TV series they like rather than picking up the comic or book that they're based on, despite the fact that they're better than a bad video game. People today are just too dumb to read things anymore.
>>337789909
Technically you could simplify a majority of games these days with that description. Regardless, I beat the game and most of it was spent crouched sneaking around mushroom zombies before inevitably running into a group of humans that you burn to death because lolflamethrower.
In all fairness though the first hour of the game is pretty much all story. After that though it basically cycles through explore area, run into zombies, run into bandits, repeat until next cutscene that skips to another season. A bit predictable, but competent enough shooting.
>>337786981
Depends on the game.
Some games try to force a story and fail miserably ( Uncharted, Tomb Raider , Cisquisition ) and some games have gret story and its one of the reason why its so good ( Witcher 3 ), some games dont have any story at all ( Souls series, Mario ) but are awesome
>>337790012
>can't refute my superior point
I did.
>resorts to name calling
I wasn't name calling, I said you sound retarded. That doesn't necessarily mean you are a retard, it's an observation.
You on the other hand were name calling though.
>>337790053
Why would you go online and lie like this?
my fondest story moment in vidya was that one witcher quest in act 3-4 where you're outside the castle on a farm field.It's a completely new mood. The one with 2 sisters. I'm not gonna spol it. But is saddened me profoundly.The Heat of the day quest. My most fond gameplay-wise moment was killing the entire enemy team twice in cs 1.6
>>337790112
>Souls series not having a good story
>Souls series having good gameplay
The only reasons anyone plays those shitty clunkfest games is for the story.
Why else would they play them? The gameplay is so terrible, there's no reason to play it unless you enjoy the story.
Contrary to popular belief, story and gameplay are not mutually exclusive. It's alright if your game has little story or doesn't put much emphasis on the story, but you're still missing out on an opportunity to improve your game simply because you don't want to do a little writing.
>>337790379
But the gameplay in the Witcher is so bad. It's like they tried to make a real time version of the KOTR gameplay, but kept in the 1+second cooldown for attacks.
Terrible idea, Terrible gameplay.
I've heard "Playing a game for it's graphics is like watching porn for its storyline" before, prefer that.
Dunno where it came from.
>>337790387
the gameplay is fine, the stories are peripheral at best and can be completely ignored
>>337787320
>There is only one way to understand the medium. It just happens to be my way.
>>337789158
problem is we hardly get games focused on gameplay
and almost everything its
>long cutscenes
>logs
>walk while listening to this whore/retard
and whatever other bullshit i dont remember that makes you throw the controller out of boredon
>>337789306
i was thinking of uncharted/the last of us/gears of wars/last few gta
but i guess half life 2 did have some parts like those (dont remember)i always considered average
>>337789127
I'm gonna take this time to let you know that this post was a pretty damn good save.
>>337788424
>AA and Zero Escape are better
They're great but I really wouldn't parade them as great games. And that's fine really. Things can be great without being great games.
Hold on, where is this "Dark Souls has terrible gameplay" meme coming from?
>>337791965
Up until 3 it was pretty shit.
The story should be there, but it should be on the player to discover it.
The heavy handed approach of having NPCs over-narrate the entire plot to you constantly is lame.
>>337791965
people who have never played a clunky game
>>337792329
>people who have never played a clunky game
Obviously they have at least once if they played Dark Souls to know its shitty
>"Read a book if you want a good story"
>"Videogames can beer be art"
>people have unironically posted these statements on /v/
>on /v/
>>337792476
Can beer can be art?
>>337792476
>Videogames can beer be art
What did he mean by this?
>>337792628
if you're andy warhol, yeah probably
>>337790387
>Saying Dark Souls have bad gameplay
I appreciate the praise for the story but seriously,
GIT GUD
>>337786981
What's he smoking?Story is the best part of porn.
>>337787696
What did Miyamoto do that was so special?
>>337790387
>this is what storyfags actually believe
>>337786981
Well, since there's this whole thing call "genres" in games, I'd say it depends.
>>337786981
depends on the game really
>>337787672
>call of doomy fans will insult carmack because his refusal to sell out his principals on open software makes Bethesda look bad
>>337790387
>The only reasons anyone plays those shitty clunkfest games is for the hardcore cred
FTFY
