http://youtube.com/watch?v=X5vUb3C9GcI
So... why is nobody talking about this?
Because it looks like crap?
>>337656102
Finally a male JRPG protagonist who isn't a twink fuckboy
>>337656102
Doesn't really look good.
>he posted it again
Production quality just isn't good enough for anyone to give a shit.
>>337656102
>numales
NU
MALES
Because polygon loltaku etc will, you don't have to shill for it
>>337656102
>imitation weeb music
>>337656102
The battle system looks really bad. The Interface is lazy as hell with no thought towards good presentation. The minigame shit ensures it will never actually get even slightly difficult. Nu Male protagonist. Hipster garbage aethsetic that lacks any personality or soul. Persona 4 plot ripoff. I think we're about done here
>>337656102
It looks interesting. Has sort of a Katamari Damacy feel too it. It's not necessarily bad on it's own, but the crowd it appeals to is obnoxious.
>>337656345
>>337656386
The fuck is this new reddit buzzword?
Why did indie games go from cheeki breeki depressing and genuinely artistic yet also hardcore and mechanically challenging Russian games to DUDE DEEP PIXEL VOGEL INDIE PROGRESSIVISM WITH MECHANICS LIFTED FROM EASY AS SHIT SNES GAMES LMAO
>post-modern
More like post-mortem
Would you indie devs stop shilling your uninspired trash over here?
>post-modern rpg
I want it to fail
>>337656956
But that game is actually good
>>337656946
Because they want to actually sell things.
>>337656946
>DUDE DEEP PIXEL VOGEL INDIE PROGRESSIVISM WITH MECHANICS LIFTED FROM EASY AS SHIT SNES GAMES LMAO
because they sell and cheap-ass to make
>>337657128
This. Why the fuck can't people just make games anymore? There always has to be some fucking politics or (usually progressive) 2deep-ideology behind it.
I don't want a fucking message in my game, I just want a game.
>>337657281
Then just go play doom instead of wanting all games to be the same shit like a kid that wants every movie to be a Michael Bay film.
>>337657281
>politics in games is a post-2008 thing
>>337656102
Main character's design is fucking awful
So... is this a new meme?
>>337656102
I swear, I've seen that protagonist design before.
Maybe I'm just thinking of Brian Posehn...
>>337656102
>Postmodern.
And into the trash it goes. It sucked in literature, it'll suck in vidya.
>>337656102
we did
it looks like shit
>>337656102
Whats there to talk about? its shit, its undertale in 3d.
>>337656102
Saged and reported.
Also, consider killing yourself OP
Things I like in the trailer:
>The interesting timed-attacks
Things I don't like:
>The designs
>The animations
>The music
Sorry, doesn't look promising.
I remember this shit being announced like 3 years ago.
>still not out
It's gonna be shit.
>>337657582
He keeps making it earlier and earlier
get some sleep, fucboi
>>337656102
You know your far up your own ass when you label your game "postmodern" in it's title.
>>337656102
There's a modicum of effort but it's all missplaced. Game looks like shit battle music could be good but it's rife with a shit-tier BOOM sound that ruins the piano and other electronic sounds and the story is probably going to be a cringefest worser than most JRPG, except out of the viewpoint of a shitty numale hipster.
I'm actually pretty interested in this game. Other than the Nu-male protagonist and the premise that lends itself to a 2deep4u plot it doesn't look that bad.Also Toby Fox is making the OST
Wouldn't it be more of a contemporary RPG rather than a post-modern RPG?
>>337657789
hahaha
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
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>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
>PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
PLEASE BUY MY GAEM
~ t h e • M u s i c a l ~
>>337657281
People make "games" all the time, we don't notice (or care) because they fall like snow, pile up, and bury each other until they just look like a sea of white.
>>337657805
>doesn't even have a concept of what "postmodern" means
underageb&?
>>337656102
God, i am cringing hard on this ... who is the demographic of this turd lasagna
>>337657832
>implying thats a good thing
omg I remmeber zoe quinn talking about this game!
I think it looks amazing and I love the earthbound references!
>those dislikes on "gameplay" videos
lmbao
>>337658007
It's not about what the word means, it's the fact that the developer thought it was a good idea to shoehorn it into the title.
The title is already YIIK.
>postmodern
I have never seen something call itself postmodern.
>>337658176
What can you say? Gaming culture still needs to grow up.
Shill thread, sage and hide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRWkknUids4
So... why is nobody talking about this?
Now this is my kind of game.
>>337656102
The godawful music is hurting my brain.
Maybe you should work on that instead of shilling your shitty pretentious crap.
>>337658354
how so?
It's an RPG where you need to play a minigame for every attack.
Fuck that noise
>>337658825
gamers are having a knee jerk reaction because it has SJW aesthetic
they seriously need to get over their bigotry before the medium can progress as an artform.
>>337658913
It'll never be art. Sorry Kojima. Sorry Bioware.
>>337658913
what's an sjw aesthetic
this game has a portland aesthetic
Interesting art style and character designs, I haven't seen enough of the game besides the trailer OP posted though. It will probably end up being a meme game like FNAF and undertale.
>>337658996
which has been adopted by SJWs
>>337658984
>Sorry Kojima
I'm pretty sure he agrees with you tho.
>>337658913
>gamers are having a knee jerk reaction because it has SJW aesthetic
a bad one to boot. Legit complaints
>>337657345
It's not about wanting the same shit, it's about not wanting devs forcing their shitty politics down my throat, how is that hard to comprehend? Do you think the only way for games to have diverse gameplay is to have SJW shit in it?
Jap developers seem to be the last ones not putting political garbage into their plots but even they're starting to buckle under pressure.
>>337659106
Multiculturalism is our greatest strength.
>>337659096
it's not legitimate if there's a bias against liberals behind it
This must be the most hipster game ever
>>337659176
whatever you say.
>>337658913
No, the game looks pretentious as fuck. Not because of any projection that you think that "gamers" put on it. It's because it looks like it would likely try shoving in some half-assed philosophical message that's supposed to invoke the feeling of "omg that was deep bro"
Get the fuck out of here with your garbage game.
>>337657789
>>337657921
Worse, it's probably a shitposter who literally does it for the (you)'s.
>>337656102
>I know there are two hipster garbage Earthbound rip offs coming out
>I know the number is "2" entirely because /v/ keeps reminding me, as they both look exactly the same
>>337659215
Sure. Let's just pretend unreasonable hatred of social justice groups doesn't exist on /v/.
>>337659439
>Sure. Let's just pretend unreasonable hatred of social justice groups doesn't exist on /v/.
I doubt ALL of the downvotes on the gameplay video are from /v/
>>337659439
They exist for good reason.
>>337659535
I didn't say it was. Right wing hate is rampant in gaming at the moment.
>>337659581
Your post implied it
>>337659581
It's because left wing has to try to fuck up the whole industry. Need I bring up Depression Quest? Or such wonderful progressive developers like Phil Fish?
>>337656102
Because the music is ear-grating and the animations look like crap.
The aesthetic/textures are nice, and the gameplay looks okay, but that doesn't override the dealbreakers.
>>337658638
>It is STILL ongoing
This is some raw autism right here. The never wavering time tested kind of autism.
>>337659716
How have those games "fucked up" the industry? I fail to see your logic.
>>337659763
Has to TRY you dense fucker. That doesn't mean it did.
I want to fuck the cute shortie girl
>>337659816
How have they tried?
>>337659535
>unreasonable hatred of social justice
>unreasonable
To bring up a completely unrelated point, the fact that states are arguing with the government about people being able to decide what bathroom they can use based on what gender they feel like today is fucking bullshit.
>>337659716
>It's because left wing has to try to fuck up the whole industry
I'm pretty sure that at least some of the games you enjoy are probably made by left wingers. We're talking about the mostly pansy nerds who make vidya after all.
>>337659716
Imagine being so fragile that you feel threatened when a woman and phil fish make video games.
That's what it's like to be a "gamer" today.
>>337656102
Looks like shit and the battle system is a blatant ripoff of Shadow Hearts.
>>337660050
>implying I feel threatened
>implying I don't just think these games are garbage
>>337656102
Looks like this generation's Earthbound. Mark my words, this game will change the face of RPGs just like EB did.
>>337656102
hipster the game?
>>337660140
is that why you harassed and sent death threats to them? because you didn't feel threatened?
>>337659863
Depression Quest caused GG to be born
>>337660217
>implying they didn't send death threats to themselves
>>337660196
goes beyond that
not even hipsters would touch this
Looks like Persona 4
Makes sense that the shittiest Persona game would spawn this cancer.
>>337660260
I'd like to see you even try to prove that.
>>337660309
I'd like to see you even try to prove the opposite
>>337660309
Go to bed Brianna.
>>337660360
Why should I? You're the ones that are in the wrong.
>>337660272
more like Purse owner 4
>>337659863
Let's just take Depression Quest, as an example. The game started as a five dollar glorified powerpoint presentation that's goal was never to actually address real life issues, but to cause controversy with the game developer doing shitty things for reviews so her game would skyrocket in notoriety. If that's not fucking with the industry, I don't know what is.
>>337659949
No, you're definitely right. I'll change my statement from left wing to the most vocal part of left wing. Better?
>>337660050
No, I'm just incredibly disappointed when devs like those get praise.
also
>threatened when a woman ... makes video games
Nice projection, faggot.
>>337660217
WEW LAD. SO 4CHAN DID IT. WHO IS THIS HACKER KNOWN AS 4CHAN, DOES ANYONE KNOW? IS HE A SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR?
>>337656946
>if it's not depressing as hell, jenky, and made by a couple of illiterate slavs who have nothing to do with the shit-ass translation, it's not art
more hipster than /mu/ and that's impressive
>>337660217
>>337660309
>>337660401
>>337659439
>>337659176
>>337658913
>>337658354
HELLOOOOOOOO GHAAAAAZIIII
>itt numale cucks getting angry that people don't want to play a game that looks like total dog shit
>>337660459
>a woman had sex
OH NO! THIS IS HORRIBLE!
>and.... she made a video game
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....
>AND IT'S FREEE!
THE INDUSTRY IS DOOMED!
DOX AND RAPE HER IMMEDIATELY!
#NOTYOURSHIELD
>>337660217
you're right, it was me, /V/ who sent the death threats!
>>337660617
Fuck off marxist jew cuck.
>>337660617
>>337660648
SASUGA /v/, he does things no one dares to do!
>>337660617
I didn't say any of that at all. Nice strawman, though.
>>337656858
>new
Not as new as you it seems.
>>337660789
I just corrected your information.
>>337657757
You shouldve heard the original trailers music. Made everyones ears bleed.
>>337660823
Okay, so you admit to not having a proper retort to what I said, and instead frothing at the mouth and stamping your feet on the ground while giving the shittiest strawman argument ever in response?
Good job, homie.
btw, it wasn't free at the start, cuck.
>>337660927
it was free at the time when goobergators started freaking out over nothing and shitting themselves violently.
>>337661016
>goobergators started freaking out over nothing and shitting themselves violently.
Oh the ironing.
>>337660823
>I DON'T LIKE MEN WHO DISAGREE WITH ME
Whoa
>I'LL JUST RAPE THE FACTS UNTIL THEY RESEMBLE MY 1 IN 4 STATISTIC
Whoa dude
>I SWEAR TO GOD I'LL MAKE SURE EVERY NEGATIVE COMMENTER IS CENSORED AND THEN PUT IN A SPECIAL DISSENTER JAIL WHERE THEY'LL NEVER WORK AGAIN AND THEY'LL BE RAPED AND RAPED AND RAPED BECAUSE MEN CANT ACTUALLY BE RAAAAPED!
Whoaaaa mama you sure are a monster according to these unassuming and friendly corrections I just made.
>>337661131
You can thank SJWs and Leigh Alexander for spearheading the effort to clean up gaming and remove undesirables like goobergators.
>>337656102
Postmodernism was a dumb concept that 80's hipsters thought would revolutionize the world. I'm not surprised to see it again, but I am disappointed.
>>337660823
>t. Abram Goldberg while murdering 1000 more Palestinians and promoting more western civilization destroying diversity at the same time
>>337661225
>goobergaters
isn't it gooberblooberglabablablah now
>>337656102
Will this game be the "Infinite Jest" of vidya?
>>337661308
vonnegut is a postmodernist
>>337661336
we call them whatever makes the silly little baby men cry the most
"goober" is typically enough to trigger hysterics and death threats.
>>337661394
>"goober" is typically enough to trigger hysterics and death threats.
how come i never see this actually, tho
>>337661365
No wonder his books were so terrible. Same with that hack Pynchon.
>>337661438
because you're a disingenuous /v/-tard
>>337661456
Pynchon is not a post modernist.
so the devs of this piece of shit are in this thread having a tantrum, right?
>>337661438
Because nobody actually gives a shit.
>>337661497
are you sure it isn't because it doesn't happen tho?
>>337661497
Pot calling the kettle a nigger.
>>337661394
I love how bullying bullies is totally acceptable.
>>337661498
No he isn't. Anyone interested in post-modernism should read Gravity's Rainbow tho
>>337661225
You realize you're just doing the equivalent of /pol/ shitposting in the opposite direction right?
It's still shiposting /pol/ style. Except replace liberals with muh goobergators
>>337661573
>hurr durr if you kill him you'll be just as bad as he is!
>>337661589
I think you should just read it if you want to read a really amazing book. But sure that too.
>>337661631
Well if your entire argument is based around morality then yeah you will be.
>>337660483
>illiterate slavs
more like, illiterate indians who translated this shit in English. Them slavs from Ice-Pick Lodge are very much one the most literate buggers among the game industry dev teams.
>>337661710
and that's why the death penalty doesn't exist
>>337656102
>nu-male protagonist
>A completely incoherent trailer featuring a bunch of random scenes which don't even try to sync with the music
This is a bad trailer and tells me that the game will be bad.
>>337661749
Pathetic.
>>337656946
Because quirky shit gets parroted more on equally as vapid websites like Slow-taku because that's their main demographic.
>>337656102
more indie garbage! GREAT! shove it right in my asshole! Mmmm yeah, right up in there.
>>337661710
honestly i doubt it
considering no one has created a workable system of ethics without forcing you to be a hypocrite
>>337661850
No one's FORCING you to buy it you stupid goober.
>>337661749
The strongest (or at least most widely used) argument against the death penalty is a moral one. Try again.
![358[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YDj4ip0.jpg "358[1].jpg")
>>337661850
>>337661890
>goober
is this the part where someone is supposed to """""""death threaten"""""" you?
>>337656102
Standard indie game.
>>337661946
if it wasn't anonymous, yes.
>>337656257
>Finally a male JRPG protagonist who isn't a twink fuckboy
Yeah, we instead got a fuckboy with a beard. Awesome.
>>337661890
>>337662000
You're so retarded it's not even funny.
Quit shitposting, you suck at it.
>>337661662
What exactly do you mean? He is not a post-modernist. Gravity's Rainobow, however, is a postmodern work.
>>337658913
>before the medium can progress as an artform.
What really needs to happen for the industry to progress is for FAGGOTS like you to stop demanding games be treated like art.
You're the reason the industry is full of interactive movies instead of actual games.
>>337656102
Looks pretty good but it's indie trash so why are people supposed to talk about indie trash?
>>337662000
don't be a hypocrite then, post your identifying info so we can prove you're right about us then
>>337662057
typo cuz dwunk
why would i want to play as phil fish?
>>337661945
Please save the thread by linking the panda.
>>337662057
Actually I've heard it argued it's a high-modernist work.
>>337662115
>dox threat
right on cue.
>>337656102
Thought it was gonna be some SJW shit but it's actually pretty neat and surreal looking. Why is this my first hearing of it?
>>337656257
>Finally a male JRPG protagonist who isn't a twink fuckboy
Nu man
>Acck Studios
>literally naming your gaming company after JonTron's trademark meme
>no one is talking about this
There is a thread on this stupid fucking trailer every night you fucking lying attention whore
>>337661861
Unfortunately you're probably right.
>>337662216
>>337656102
>$0.10USD has been deposited in your account.
>>337662151
http://exhentai.org/g/651911/b83189c4e8/
>>337656102
Aesthetically it looks pretty neat, but the 3-frame animations are really just annoying to watch.
>>337662360
Thanks. It was nice doing business.
>>337658525
I don't have to talk about what will always be in my heart anon.I already forgot about them once.
>>337662174
im just giving you what you're asking for
you need more stuff for your harassment compilations right?
>>337659871
A dude's already been caught taking photos of little girls in restrooms.
>>337662748
how far will the right wing go to prove a point
>>337662716
not really
I get plenty enough
>>337662776
Not as far as the regressive left.
>>337662904
At least the left isn't taking pictures of little girls to prove their agenda.
>>337662360
I legit used to do "microjob" advertising. They'd pay about 12 cents to post on various sites about their products. I never saw them target 4chan, but it probably happens.
>>337656102
I'm surprised, indie games are finally progressing past 2D shits.
At least this seems to have some personality.
>>337662835
>I get plenty enough
And I believe you.
>>337662993
12 cents a post? An hour? Or to do it in general?
>>337662748
there are very few instances like that even if you spread data over decades.
>>337661131
That contraption looks absolutely amazing.
>>337663083
12 cents per post or whatever the task is, but usually there's a limit of some kind. Tasks are usually posting somewhere, reviewing something, taking a survery, or rigging a poll. It's not worth doing unless you're a third worlder because they usually add a bunch of hoops for you to jump through to prove you did the work and it ends up taking too much time. You'll make less than min wage.
>>337661662
Gravity's rainbow was overwritten shit.
>>337658007
Do you? What is postmodernism? Which of the overlapping, vague definitions of the term are people supposed to use?
>>337663580
No it wasn't.
>>337656102
Because tumblr incarnate is not a game that appeals to me.
>>337663650
Yes it was.I can do this all night, faggot
>>337659581
and it's glorious. I was the biggest bleeding heart lib you can imagine, hell I unironically watched amazing atheist at one point. Then you fucking cucks started screwing with my video games, so now I hate niggers.
>>337663769
Well thanks for giving me the heads up. Was gonna go another hour tops but I can't handle a whole night. Cheers!
>>337663801
thanks for proving every SJW right.
>>337656102
because it looks like fucking SHIT
the amount of stuff that i don't like surpasses a lot of what i could even expect
>>337663885
You and your wifes son are welcome.
>>337663645
postmodernism is the equivalent of a 5 year old asking "why?" over and over again, not because he actually wants information, but because he knows it annoys you and he's a little shit.
>>337664120
why?
>>337663645
>What is postmodernism?
Complete shit.
>>337664120
>>337664164
>mad virgins who never read anything made in the last 100 years that isn't stephen king of genreshit
KEK
>>337662153
arbitrary
>>337656102
the protagonist had better shave off his beard. i dont think average gamers who buy indies can be into a white beard guy with black frame glasses on unless hes a dudebro or stereotypical heroes like mgs and hl. only hips can into it.
though id have to give in to it if normies and those who hyped up for undershit and life is shit on steam bought into this.
>>337664212
>"reading" anything but fansubs of unreleased japanimation films
*tips fedora*
>>337664212
>shitting on the king
>>337656257
>jrpg
There was a thread ealier today.
This is the most blatantly, purposefully hipster shit I've ever seen. This is like, multiple levels of irony.
>we're being ironically ironical ironically
Go fuck yourself.
Music sort of kind of reminds me of Persona 3, though, which is nostalgic.
>>337656257
That desperate to shill, huh?
>>337656102
Hipsters, people who go on twitter and neo liberals should all be round up and shot
>>337663645
Postmodernism is exactly what the name implies. It's "what comes after modernism", modernism being art styles from the 1850s up until around the 60s or 70s. If we're talking philosophy, like with this game (i think), it's fucking meaningless. It "means" my shitty new take on life thays cool and hip.
>>337656102
>Life is Strange the RPG
>>337656102
>that pic
Freeman changed a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5sKE17L3w
>that everything
>>337660438
He's not badly clothed, outside of the shoes and that fucking retarded purse.
>>337656102
i wish somebody would make an outright fascist game
>>337656946
Blame game journalists. There are HUGE fucktons of good indiegames being made all the time, but game journalists tend to only promote those where they're friends with the devs or if it fits their agenda.
Not always (Not even they are so stupid that they can ignore indiegames becoming viral) but most of the time it's the case. I mean, look at fucking Gone Home. Most of the positive reviews came from people that knew the devs and it focused more on "M-muh progressiveness" than anything else about the game, as if having a lesbian was something new to gaming.
>>337656102
People have been posting threads about how shit it is non stop. I'm interested. We'll see how it is when it's out.
So...why is nobody talking about this?
>'NO LEAVE MY GAMES ALONE, MAKE YOURS'
>still cry when we make our own games
dumb stupid goobybabies
>>337656606
>nu male
fuck off
>>337669705
you fuck off nu male faggot
I hate the modern western Indie scene, everything has to be some sort of pixelated Earthbound rip-off or "rogue-lite" with a twist. And they all have the same obnoxious style of humor.
>>337669686
>waaahhhh i don't like criticism
too bad. kill yourself.
>>337669686
>people saying a video game trailer looks like shit
>QUIT CRYING, YOU'RE HURTING MY FEELINGS
You're game a shit.
>>337669834
>>337669875
Why do you care? The game obviously wasn't made for you.
>>337670291
your game is trash, and you are trash.
>>337669047
M8, the only good thing on him is the shirt.
>>337670367
You are just proving me right.
>>337656102
Because it looks like trash.
>>337669686
>>337669875
>>337670291
>>337670367
>>337670538
Quit yer roleplaying guys.
pretentious as fuck game that appeals to the usual le quirky earthbound fans, le edgy teenage outcast hipster with muh pseudo intellectual and i'm chill af personality and i listen to trash indie instrumental electronica and hi i read books
>>337657281
post modernism is not a political ideology, it's stylistic
>>337656257
>jrpg
>>337668846
What the fuck is this soundtrack supposed to be? It's just a mess of noise. And the RPG mechanics couldn't be more bog standard. A couple of boring looking minigames over and over, and clearly there's little else to do.
>>337656102
Who the fuck would want to play as a hipster like that?
>>337656102
>post modern
>nu male protagonist
>see a screenshot of this game
>get reminded of things you really despise in real life
>>337656102
>if it's a twink it's not weebshit
>if it's a average looking dude with a beard and glasses it's hipster numale
>if it's a generic bald dude it's boring
>if it's a woman it's sjw pandering
>if it's a black dude it's sjw pandering
>if it's an animal it's furry
Why don't you stop playing videogames already
>>337656102
imo it looks pretty cool
a western take on persona but without just trying to make a western persona but rather take inspiration from it (and other titles) and make a game
>>337671078
>Why don't you stop playing videogames already
If you browse /v/ you already have
>>337656858
Lurk moar
>>337669510
All together now:
ETHICS
Will the protagonist be cucked? It is a post modern fetish after all
>>337669686
>make our own games
so you admit that you had a part in making this game and now you're a shilling here?
>>337671078
>Why don't you stop playing videogames alreadyI haven't played a video game in 9 years
>>337671158
>a western take on persona but without just trying to make a western persona
I never played Persona and still reocgnized it as wester Persona, it's the most blatant shit ever.
>>337671478
not gonna lie. If I the guy behind this lady I'd run back down and murder that clown. I fucking hate clowns
>>337657638
I actually really like post-modernism in literature, but i cant see anything post modern related in this game
>>337656257
Yeah because the stereotypical Starbucks hipster is so manly.
>>337656102
Honestly the world and art direction doesn't look bad at all
It's just seems like the whole game revolve around shitty hipster culture
The music improved a bit at least
>>337660823
>I just corrected your argument into a set of different points that I could make fun of
Corrected that for you
>>337669047
I don't care what /fa/ says, ankle-biters do not look good.
>DUDE SO IRONIC LMAO
>postmodern
>>337669686
Stop advertising your game to people who won't like it then, genius!
>>337671078
Oh yes, because we were known for liking Metroid Other M for making the main female character a complete wuss, weren't we?
Holy fuck this game looks like a cringe goldmine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5IwudfK8Vg
>>337674372
I opened an embed, read the preview screen, then closed the thumbnail again.
I don't think I've ever been so uninterested in how well a game does before now, usually I at least want to see how badly it fails.
