What is the hardest game you ever played
>>337541445
Robocop 3
>>337541445
>Shump
>Rhythm
They require "mechanical skill" (such as most arcade games), no idea about the other two listed on advanced.
Nice little list you unoriginal shit
>>337541445
Shmups and rhythm games don't really take skill, they take memorization and just plain good reaction times. Reaction time is genetically determined, you can't "git gud" at it.
>>337541445
Mega Man zero cause im a pussy
>>337541974
so it takes the advanced skill of having good reaction time, ability to keep a consistent rhythm, ability to quickly adapt to sudden changes, impeccable memory, and spacial awareness.
Things you cant just 'git gud' at with practice IS what a skill fucking is, you moron.
eg you have the advanced skill of being complete and utter retard.
>>337541445
Any game that requires more skill that playing the Sims.
Kid Chameleon
>>337541445
how get challenger and become pro
quick
>>337542283
You literally have no idea what skill means. Please stop talking and pick up a book.
I'm gold on SFV is that enough to be in the cool kids club?
>>337541742
Fighting also requires mechanical skill,but the reason they're in advance is due to the precise actions you take in those games most games in other genre's have an easy access window that can be master in days or weeks.But the genre's mention above can take years to master.For example there's this experience beatmania player whos been playing the game for at least 8 years,it took 2 years to master the song Mei another with a record of 95% completion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrBSqRbkypI ,even after all these years no one has gotten to 100 percent
>>337542283
>Things you cant just 'git gud' at with practice IS what a skill fucking is, you moron.
That's talent, moron, not skill.
>>337542415
>>337541974
In vidya sense,yeah is all about reaction and being adaptive to situations.You do know memorization can be included in skills right?Skill is determined by being an expertise in a certain areas,some skills can be learn quickly while others take longer to learn and master
>>337541445
This and SMT: Nocturne
>>337541445
Skill and knowledge/experience are different things.
>>337541445
I beat it without cheats too, fucking classic.
>>337542987
>and being adaptive to situations
That's why I don't think it is skill, at least not a high level of skill. These games type are not about being adaptive to new situations, on the fly planning and strategics, etc., etc.
Shmups and rhythm game are HUGELY predictable, it's not difficult at all to have them consistently execute a particular pattern over and over again. That's almost the entire point of them. It doesn't really take a lot of skill in of itself to beat them, just memorization is enough.
It's kind of like you can learn to play one song and only one song on the piano and become really good at it, even the best in the world. but all you can really do is play that one song. Your actual general piano playing skill is low and if you tried to play a different song you are probably going to suck pretty bad at it because you didn't learn a transferable skill, you memorized a pattern.
>>337543370
Not really they're really similar concepts.For example you can look at knowledge as a practical understanding of a subject.You can have knowledge of the game but not have skills to apply them while playing.In similarity in order to have skill in a certain video game,you need the understanding of a games mechanics(knowledge)So yeah both knowledge and skill go ahead to ahead
>>337544034
So that means that Eve online is one of the most skillful games ever?
>>337543541
>These games type are not about being adaptive to new situations, on the fly planning and strategics
Yeah they are unless you saying that all shmups and rhythm games are the same. Shmups patterns tho are predicable still relies on RNG so even tho you would get the same pattern the bullets could end up in different places meaning you need to maneuver and always adapt to the situation.Rhythm games are the only ones you would be able to predict,but just because you can predict doesn't mean your always going to hit the right notes you need precision,and accuracy to hit every fast note coming your way(This is not easy as it sounds and can take years to master an entire game).Also your argument can be applied to any game like Dark souls you spend an entire day fighting O&S you become so good at the fight you'll think the other bosses and game can be beaten using the same strategy as fighting them
>>337544661
Does Eve requires fast pace reaction time,or well thought strategy.I never played Eve so I wouldn't know
What's that one Disney game that's infamously hard? Aladdin on some system?
Also put Winnie the Pooh baseball at the top
>>337545203
The lion king for Snes and Genesis was the hardest I can think of.
>>337545203
Alladin on genesis was millions of times harder than the snes counterpart
>>337545408
>>337545480
Those are the ones thanks. Gonna emulate them later.
>>337541445
Armored Core Last Raven Portable is the hardest game I've played. Props to whoever can beat the Zinaida route.
>>337541445
snake rattle'n'roll
absolutely could not get to the last level
>>337545097
>Does Eve requires fast pace reaction time,or well thought strategy.I never played Eve so I wouldn't know
no but it's considered as one of the hardest games to get into. Just because it is so big, complicated and there are so much stuff to know and do. For a new-player it will be pretty much impossible to compete with people who played this game for 10 years just because of that.
So if we say knowledge = skill than EvE is one of the hardest games
>>337545921
I wouldn't say knowledge equals skill,just that they go ahead to ahead.But if what you say is true then I would put it with grand strategy since this list is base on skill and knowledge
>>337541445
Challenge wise probably the Alexander Midas savage raids from Final fantasy 14
>>337541445
What about Tetris?
>>337541445
>character action
>>337546602
Fuck I really need to update this list hold on
dark souls
>>337546546
Go to bed Chris
>>337547131
Who are you
>>337547196
a boy has no name
>>337546623
You know games like Devil May Cry,Ninja Gaiden,Bayonetta
also updated
How are fighting games not on top of the list?
>>337542532
But that's just rote memorization and muscle memory. Not reflexes.
Shit like invisible Tetris. Now that's fucking advanced tier.
Ikaruga
>>337542415
Anon, don't pick on the middle school kids. They haven't had their nap yet.
>>337547616
Because Shmups and Rhythm are harder based on pure skill.meanwhile you break most fighting games by exploiting a broken character or loop infinite combo's.Don't get me wrong fighting games still require tons of skill,is just that Shmups and Rhythm games can't be exploited like fighting games
>>337547616
They are. Did you even read OP?
>>337546362
but eve is defiantly an MMORPG
I don't want be annoying but list like these are always bad. They are much to generalizing so why have them at all?
>>337548069
>Shmups and Rhythm games can't be exploited like fighting games
???
I'm beginning to think you have no idea what the following terms mean:
"shmup"
"fighting game"
"skill"
"exploit"
>>337548224
Okay let me put it in simple terms.In alot of Fighting games there's always that one character that can trivialize the entire game.Or a move with a huge as fuck hitbox that can exploited during the game.Shmups and Rhythm has nothing in there mechanics that can be exploited unless you count Bomb spamming in Touhou 8
I beat Ghosts'n'Goblins. That game was absolute shit though. I legitimately have no idea why it received any praise. Difficulty doesn't always equal good games.
Other than that, I beat all the classic NES Castlevanias, most Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden games and enjoyed them all a lot. When it comes to more modern titles, it's probably stuff like Volgarr the Viking, Hotline Miami, Isaac andSouls.
>>337541445
>rhythm games
>difficult
>requiring large amounts of skill
Kek. Hardest games I've played are the Ninja Gaiden NES trilogy.
Multiplayer games with decent mechanics are kind of the top tier there, since predicting human players pushes the decisions/time ratio into absurd territory.
>>337548563
the majority of Touhou games have some sort of exploit, but they aren't real shmups and don't count anyway.
>>337548610
I always lumped Ghost n Goblins and Castlevania together because a lot of the difficulty comes from just how difficult it is to control the character and the fact that the game constantly exploits this.
I suppose Castlevania is a little better by virtue of the fact that it at least has a generous health bar and better graphics. Oh, and it doesn't make you beat it twice to "really" beat it. I can't understand why people would ever defend such blatant padding. I've even seen people defend that sort of shit being done in 30+ hour RPGs.
>>337548563
>In alot of Fighting games there's always that one character that can trivialize the entire game.
Literally what fighting games are you playing?
We're talking versus other people. Not the single player. And bullshit like the boss characters don't count, because they're fucking boss characters.
>>337541974
>rhythm games don't take skill
nigga I could grab a rhythm game I've never played before and be good at it without knowing the songs in said game, you're just a scrub
>>337549793
he probably means those marvel type of games where they are intentionally unbalanced. Think theyre called kusoge?
>>337549793
Soul Calibur 5 fucking Siegfried and Natsu players are all I see online.
Street Fighter 4 C Viper Flame kick which the majority of my wins come from
UMVC 3 Vergil Dante,X-23 congrats went 78-12 using only thos three all my other losses came from using different characters
>>337550017
Nobody plays that shit except niggers who can't stand anime.
1p games harder than 2p games where you have two players trying read each other's mind and having to react and adapt accordingly.
Precision and muscle memory are just tips of the iceberg for these type of games. I dont know how you can say something like tetris, which is impressive, is even close when the skills needed are the bare minimum requirements for competitive 2 player.
>shmups advanced skill
Wew lad
>>337550230
forgot my greentext
>1p harder than 2p
>>337550230
I said invisible Tetris, retard. Completely different from regular Tetris.
>>337550182
So because you're a scrub who plays against other scrubs, the games require less skill compared to genres which are entirely rote memorization?
I'm not even a fighting game fan. But holy shit, you're retarded if you actually believe any of the shit you're saying.
>>337541445
>Advances skill needed
>Rhythm
What?
>>337541445
>Console fps
>no skill needed
They actually need more skill than PC fps since aiming isn't so easy
>>337550297
>grand strategy
>skill
I've got well over 400 hours in them, but things like Europa Universalis are just map painting sims.
>>337550017
Even with Marvel shitty games,the fighting Genre has become so casually I doubt most of the newer ones need any skill in the First place.Look at shit like Guilty Gear Xrd,MKX,and Street Fighter 5.The fighting genre is a complete joke right now
>>337547460
Can people stop calling these games character action, that's not their real name.
Not only does it sound fucking stupid but it was coined by a youtuber.
>>337550432
>autoaim
Rhythm games aren't all about "muscle memory", they're about rhythm. A good drummer or rhythmically inclined musician will be good at rhythm games fairly quick. But what do I expect from /v/ when everyone is a talentless moron.
>>337541445
>Advance skill needed
>Grand Strategy
>>337550419
>invisible tetris
>muscle and memory trainer harder than beating another human being of equal or higher skill
>"retard"
someone is assblasted at their wasted practice nobody will give a shit about after 5 minutes of youtube fame.
>>337550432
How does aim assist make it harder?
>>337548563
>every fighting game has that one character that trivializes everything
Only if that game is horribly unbalanced, not to mention that fighting games pit you against actual human opponents that can't be predicted like vidya A.I can
>>337549568
This guy gets it
>>337541445
>Rythm
>Fighting
>two genres which casuals play regularly
>>337550559
No. A musician has to keep the rhythm themselves when playing an instrument, for a rhythm game the game sets the rhythm and you just have to sync up to it. That's why a metronome may help a musician play an instrument but it doesn't help someone playing a rhythm game.
Rhythm games are purely pattern memorization and muscle memory, nothing more.
>>337550835
Playing=\=being good at
>>337550559
You're confusing cause and effect.
Literally nothing you "learn" in rhythm games transfers over to real life. I can play on expert with my friend in Guitar Hero or Rock Band because I actually played guitar for almost ten years.
The difference? When the game is off, I can actually play guitar. My friend can't. He didn't learn a skill, he learned a pattern. It doesn't go both ways, numbnuts.
>>337550419
Oh for fuck sakes do I have post video to prove how easily fighting games can be trivialized you stupid fuck.Also Shmups and Rytym are not entirely memory based stop playing shit like guitar hero,and DJmax,and you would realized it's all about reflexes and reaction timing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOE9y2Y5gJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2IM8m_VBdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhRrINclmE
>>337550472
If by casual you mean not a harder barrier of entry then that is only a positive. Good players will continue to dominate in these games. The barrier of entry only made it so those who got past it could play it at all. Look at sf3 and tell me it left a good impact.
>>337551207
Did you even watch the videos you posted?
>>337551207
>oh for fucks sale do I have to cherry pick some clips I found of scrubs getting toyed with
Also I love how you unironically think that fireball spamming is something that breaks street fighter. You don't know shit about fighting games
>>337541445
>no simulators
>rhythm over arena
You had one job.
>ARPGs
>some skill needed
Fucking kek
>>337541445
siren 1
the overall game isnt the hardest but the most annoying. the difficulty of one level is beyond nonsense. this game isnt even a horror game. its exactly how you can get over your stresses and nerves.
>>337551452
Yeah this is the type of shit I've come across online,just rarely I can find a good match but most of the time I'm just dealing with idiots who only spam.For fucks sakes I can find a better matched in DOA 5 than Street Fighter 4 and MK X
>>337551565
When it always does chip damage,and can be spam by retards than yeah it can be exploited I didn't say break the game
>>337551407
I mean causal as in getting your ass kick only to be rewarded with an full ex bar by doing but getting your ass kicked
>>337551840
>what are invincibility frames
>what is jumping over the fucking fireball
>what is closing the distance because fireballs aren't safe to use up close
No, you still don't know shit about fighting games
>>337551987
I also never said they couldn't be counter you fucking dolt,but don't pretend that the retards who spam this shit doesn't get most of they wins from spamming.
>grand strategy
>takes more skill than arena fps
>>337551935
A lot of capcom systems have always had something like that with special bar.
Unless you mean like a comeback system like x factor or ultra than yes I agree with you.
>>337551789
Dark Souls
Bloodborne
Kingdom Hearts 2 FM critical mode
Star Ocean 3
Dragons Dogma
All requires skill to some degree
>>337541445
I think it was a Touhou game (tried it in the highest difficulty, couldn't beat it).
>>337541445
Probably Valkyria chronicles without any kind of scout exploit.
>>337552134
You definetly lmplied it since you're acting like fireball spamming is some godlike tool with no flaws.
Someone who sits around and mindlessly throws fireballs is only going to win against scrubs and will get destroyed by anyone who has an idea of what their doing
Why are you judging a games skill level based on how the lowest common denominator plays it
>>337551207
Also look at this shit the Dudley player still won(barely) but it still proves my point of how spammers dominate this game also this master piece yeah fighting games require so much skill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szxTDpYOYjI
>>337552489
because their only experience is with playing with friends/ getting shit on.
>>337552516
No it dosent, you still don't know shit about fighting games or Dudley for that matter.
Dudley has tools to deal with fireballs and get up close at the same time, not to mention he can put on insane pressure so akuma can't throw fireballs in the first place.
>>337552561
How does that answer my question?
>>337552779
because playing with friends and not knowing what they're doing is the lowest common denominator. They are the ones that come up with excuse that fireballs are cheap, no throwing,etc. They mash buttons and then say that fighting games arent hard because they were allowed to mash buttons.
>>337552489
>You definetly lmplied it
I said from my very first post that it's an exploit.I would of said it in the first place could be done with no flaws you retard.
>Someone who sits around and mindlessly throws fireballs is only going to win against scrubs and will get destroyed by anyone who has an idea of what their doing
I agree but these jack asses can still pull of wins on advanced players with nothing but spamming I seen this type of shit at evo with Morrigan in UMVC 3
>Why are you judging a games skill level based on how the lowest common denominator plays it
Because guess who buys these games every since capcom wanted casualized they're audience.Like I said before the majority of my fights are dealing with spammars who sometime manages to pull off wins in this shit is frustrating.Also not everyone is an evo tournyfag
>>337552561
Nope try online when the majority of the player is nothing but causal players who spam.
>>337541445
would place all "advanced skill" in "some skill", but it is extremely obvious from the list you're an NA person, since no one cares about those pleb-tier competitive game genres in europe.
real skill-tierlist on games have to be based on skilldepth + multiplayer. if a game has a very very high skillceiling and it can be played multiplayer then that means as long as the game has a big enough scene that strives to be best there will be an insane difficulty available to you in the game, that will grow with you as you grow better.
so heres a list of what games had the room for most difficulty to overcome
#1 starcraft: broodwar. matching up with the top koreans required an insane amount of skill and experience
#2 quake series. the top quake players were out of this world, which makes quake one of the games where the difficulty remains for the longest (could arguably only be considered to ever been just a "medium-difficulty" game for only cooller and rapha, who were leagues above the competition)
#3 warcraft 3. far from a personal favorite but due to a big competitive scene with some insane talent in it, it still was one of the hardest games to measure up in.
#4 cs 1.6. to reach the absolute top required you to be born lucky, with a lot of talent, and then couple it with thousands of hours played to get the right experience.
#5 LoL/Dota insanely big communities make up for the lower amount of natural talent needed, lots of gametime needed to get right experience.
>>337541445
>no stealth
>>337542532
>Precise actions
No, fighting is up there because it requires more tactical skill than any other genera. Strategy is up there too, but not as big. Same goes for execution.
Also, fighting games often require applying execution in situations, instead of just memorizing. Same goes with RTS. This is why Rhythm games and speed running will never compare in depth. It's much tougher to remember something, and then apply it against someone who's out to stop you and muck up the works, than applying it against a static game (Or even a game with slightly randomized elements).
>>337553130
cont. the reason fighting games shouldnt be in advanced is simple, all it requires is mechanical skills, the games are way too low on depth to ever deserve to be in the same tier as a game like quake, which requires the same amount of mechanical skill coupled with far more thinking and a lot more depth in the mechanical skills since the movement is across a 3d plane.
rhythm games are nothing but mechanical skills where you can literally hit a skillcap since you can 100% songs etc, and at that point there is no room for improvement. because of this forced skillceiling these games should never be considered top-tier in difficulty, as it doesnt leave room for any thought by the player, there is never more than 1 way to approach something and taking out thinking (gamesense) out of the equation entirely makes it a pleb-tier game in terms of difficulty.
grand strategy is the opposite of rhythm, here the only thing that matter is experience in the game and the ability to put together some coherent thoughts. you need absolutely zero mechanical skills and usually have an infinite amount of thinking-time. this makes it an easy genre that only requires you to play it enough to learn the game, claiming it is hard is like saying riding a bike is hard because you had to do it a few times to figure it out.
shmups is a weird thing to list here, as its generally considered a 1player genre. if you mean quake etc, those would fall within "arena fps", which you listen below shmup?
>>337552779
Okay we get it you have phd in fighting games I don't main Dudley,I main Chun li her aerial kick and anti air gives me an advantage over spammers.Her focus attacks gives me an advantage over hugo grapples.But the point is the spammers overpopulate the actual player this is why I complain about it being to causalized
>>337553447
cont.
basically the point is that you can argue that not a single listing on your list makes any sense at all and its obviously made based on games you like/dislike and you've put the genres in a difficulty that corresponds with your taste to pretend you dont like games with lower skillcap.
i dont play RTS, i have a few hours in them of course but its not my kind of game, still i have no issue admitting that SC:BW is the game that have most room for difficulty out of any game ever, since playing against the very best in that game is ridiculously hard.
fighting games will never top a serious tier-list on difficulty or competitiveness, and like it or not but those two goes hand in hand, singleplayer will ALWAYS be easier than the most competitive multiplayer game, as with endless room for growth other players is where the real difficulty lies.
your list is absolute dogshit-tier OP, its terrible, every aspect of it is bad.
a more accurate top list of genres would go:
1) RTS
2) Arena FPS
3) Tactical FPS
4) MOBA (maybe split with 3)
>>337553015
Except fireball spamming isn't a fucking exploit, there are ways to punish your opponent for trying it. So your still wrong.
>umvc3
Again with the cherry picking. How does 1 game decide what an entire genre is like. UMvC is universally considered the scrubbiest of fighting games. Not to mention that more morrigans spam requires constant meter use. She also has to be a certain distance from the opponent for it to work.
It dosent matter if you, or anyone else, loses to spammers. Just because you aren't skilled at fighting games dosent mean fighting games don't require skill. In fact, if you weren't an absolute pants-on-head retard, you would realize that it would indicate the opposite because you still need to become more skilled to beat your opponents.
>>337553130
>No fighting games, despite being arguably the hardest genera to play, on par with Quake.
>Mobas, despite being entirely based on memory and teamwork, with no other higher skills being necessary, are still on the list
>Starcraft, despite being mostly based on micromanagement execution, is on the top of your list.
Dumb. Dumb dumb dumb.
Legit list.
1. Quake
2. Fighting games in general
3. Unreal Tournament
4. Starcraft
5. CS1.6
>>337553779
>quake above UT
I don't think one requires any more skill than the other. If anything UT would be harder because the weapons are harder to use.
>>337553447
>Fighting games only require mechanical skills.
Lol no.
The amount of thinking in most good fighting games (SF, KOF, Tekken, VF) is higher than any game on your list, sans maybe Quake.
The only people who say this shit are people who've never played fighting games. I mean, Daigo can normally beat people with literally only two moves: Crouching MK and Hadouken. David Sirlin literally became renowned for using mostly a single move, and winning over and over.
Not every game is Marvel. Mechanical skill isn't nearly as important as people who don't play fighting games think they are.
But, I can't assume a Yuropoor to know about that. Enjoy your dead FPS genera, and losing in gookclick.
>>337553779
but only an american would ever believe fighting games are high up the list, NO ONE except people who really LOVE fighting games would ever say that, and if no one besides your own shitty community think so, while everyone is willing to admit the skill needed for RTS etc, how can you not see that proves my point?
take smash for example, the swedish smash scene consists of like 14 people, still the best smasher in the world is swedish with another top10 smasher being swedish. if they can reach that level with no one to practice with, how can you not see fighting games are literally shit-tier?
fighting games have small niche communities, youre allowed to like it all you want but they require almost only mechanical skill, and other games have an equal amount of mechanical skill and timing needed while needed a shit ton more gamesense etc.
take counter-strike for example, you still need insanely quick thinking as that is part of your aim, but you have to synchronize that with handmovement and 60% of the game is about teamplay and gamesense, something fighting games lack entirely.
it is very very silly to believe fighting games belong at the top just because you like fighting games and you're too immature to accept that the thing you like isnt the hardest thing there is.
its like someone doing competitive walking refusing to admit maybe competitive walking isnt as skill-demanding as professional tennis.
>>337553653
>Spamming is not an exploit
Are you actually fucking saying this right now,the very idea spamming an attack for an easy chessy win is an exploit in itself stop being dumb
>Again with the cherry picking. How does 1 game decide what an entire genre is like.
I didn't post 1 game tho I posted MK X,Street Fighter 4,and Soul Calibur,than I went on how games like Gulity Gear,Street Fighter 5 is causalizing the fighting genre.
>It dosent matter if you, or anyone else, loses to spammers.
I hardly ever lose to them they're just annoying I wen over this in my chun li post
>Just because you aren't skilled at fighting games dosent mean fighting games don't require skill.
Only Newer Fighting games doesn't require much skill,I can go back Soul Calibur 2,Street Fighter 3,and Tekkan Tag tournament and have as much fun than any of these newer games
>>337554068
how deluded can you be when you call FPS a dead genre while praising fighting games?
like it or not but fighting games are factually less deep in every single way than competitive fps games.
quake does take more skill than for example cs, for sure, but cs has a rich depth in teamplay and gameunderstanding in a way that differs from quake.
quakes gamesense is arguably lower than the need for gamesense in cs. in quake the most important thing is to keep track of timers and understand each map enough to know how to play for mapcontrol and when you decide what part of the map you're occupying + when you launch your attack.
the reason quake take more skill than cs is because of the faster pace of engagements with a wider variety of weapons, many more complicated to use to its full potential than cs weapons are. however cs have a lot more depth in the thinking aspect of the game, and have the teamplay aspect too, what makes a cs team #1 is the depth of its teamwork and the intelligence of the player far more than the actual aiming ability of the player.
basically the depth of the competitive fps titles are simply a lot deeper than the depth of the competitive fighting titles. this doesnt mean fighting games are shit games, it just means they're easier and at its core less room for growth than the competitive fps games.
stop being so salty because your favorite genre and the only genre USA can be competitive in since EU doesnt care isnt the hardest.
>>337554069
>implying smash is a fighting game
>implying the armada dosent spend hours a day practicing anyway
>that retarded analogy
If this post wasn't so autistic I would've thought it was a quality shitpost
>>337554069
>Smash
Smash isn't a fighting game.
Especially Smash 4. Literal children are top Smash 4 players.
That's like saying FPS are worthless because Call of Duty isn't a good competitive game.
>Quick thinking that is part of your aim
And is still less than the thinking needed during neutral, zoning, ect.
>Synchronize that with hand movement
Which is still easier than hit confirms
>60% of the game is about teamplay and gamesense
Though both valuable skills, neither of them require strategic or tactical thought/maneuvering. It's literally "Hey, lets follow directions and not fuck up".
And the reason my opinion is more legit, is I've actually played both FPS and Fighting Games at a level where my opinion is valid, instead of being stupid enough to not know the difference between the FGC and Smashbabbies.
If you literally don't know shit about fighting games, you have no place to grade them.
>>337548610
The nes version is disgusting and I aswell don't understand the praise. It'd probably be the hardest game I've beaten though too.
>>337554278
>stop being so salty because your favorite genre and the only genre USA can be competitive in since EU doesnt care isnt the hardest.
It's pretty fun the American believes that fighting games are the hardest just out of patriotism and personal favoritism. If NA is shit at every single game with a global competitive scene and the only genre they shine in is the genre other scenes do not care about it only makes sense to assume it is a lower-skilled genre and that's why it is popular with Americans and not Europeans.
>>337541445
Dark Souls
>>337554326
>And is still less than the thinking needed during neutral, zoning, ect.
are you silly bro? you do realize those things are done in fps games too, just that theres 10 more things going on at the same time?
>Which is still easier than hit confirms
please stop being so NA, fighting games are not all that hard, thats why you americlaps are able to compete, no one takes it seriously outside of na and the only reason its popular there is because its a casual shitfest where everyone owns a console and looked for the one game not competitive enough to have eu step in and dominate
>Though both valuable skills, neither of them require strategic or tactical thought/maneuvering. It's literally "Hey, lets follow directions and not fuck up".
you clearly do not understand competitive cstrike if this is what you believe. cs is based on strategy and tactic, it is fluid and evolving during rounds, and the best players in the world are never the best aimers but always the best thinkers.
>>337554069
The fuck are you talking about the majority of fighting game players that enters tournaments are from European countries and Asia.And Smash is not fighting a game why the fuck do people say this.
>take counter-strike for example, you still need insanely quick thinking
So does fighting games your opponent isn't going to stay still
> but you have to synchronize that with handmovement and 60% of the game is about teamplay and gamesense, something fighting games lack entirely.
Just because it isn't teambased doesn't mean is fighting games doesn't take skills
>it is very very silly to believe fighting games belong at the top just because you like fighting games and you're too immature to accept that the thing you like isnt the hardest thing there is.
No one is saying it's hard,it's the fact that fighting games relies on fast pace reflexes,spacing,and meter management.
>>337554474
dark souls is literally nothing but playing for 3 hours so you understand the mechanics and then its an easy game.
if it is hard for you then you're naturally inclined to be useless, which seems to be a common trait with the /v/irgins.
DS is a fun game series, not a difficult one.
![Supaplex_1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/G8BOnD5.jpg "Supaplex_1[1].jpg")
From the ones I have played I would say Supaplex would take the most of my time to beat.
>>337541445
Grand strategy doesn't need advanced skill, trust me, I've played Paradox games since eu3 came out.
comet sighted
>>337554538
>No one is saying it's hard,it's the fact that fighting games relies on fast pace reflexes,spacing,and meter management.
thats literally what you're arguing for. fighting games is NOT more difficult than the competitive fps games or the competitive rts games, and mobas are likely above them too, however i would be somewhat willing to put them on a shared spot.
its fucking stupid to tell yourself over and over again "this isnt my bias talking since all i do is play fighting games, this is just totally how fighting games are the hardest".
please fucking understand its your immature bias and your inability to accept your treasured genre isnt the special little snowflake of extremeness you want it to be. why is it so hard for you to like something while also accepting it might not be the hardest thing there is?
my genre of choice is fucking grand strats nowadays, and im still more than willing to accept it doesnt belong on a list of difficult games because its only about understanding the game and thats it.
please fucking grow up already, stop being the stereotypical /v/irgin
Ancient Domains of Mystery.
0 mechanical skill required. Still hard as balls. Can now win like every 3rd attempt.
Some players have played the game for 15 years and not beaten it once. Others can beat it weekly or even daily. It's pretty much pure risk assessment and strategy, and it's glorious.
Also, OPs lost should put RTS on top. Micro driven RTS games with APM levels above 300 are in the same skill range as top fighting games. I don't see how how any other genre can match fighting or RTS, except for fps due to near limitless potential for improved accuracy and movement.
>>337554164
>Are you actually fucking saying this right now,the very idea spamming an attack for an easy chessy win is an exploit in itself stop being dumb
You sure are a dumb nigger. How many more ways to deal with these attacks to I have to list out before you get the fucking point. You CANNOT spam an attack for an easy win against someone who has an idea what their doing. You obviously don't know what your doing of you think people throwing fireballs is a problem.
>I didn't post 1 game tho
You posted a handful of cherry picked clips from games with scrubs who had no idea how to play. You only posted one example of spamming working on a pro level and even that has its drawbacks.
>I hardly ever lose to them
I doubt it if you think anti airs are the only way to deal with fireballs, wtf?
>>337554494
There is no neutral in FPS. There is no zoning in FPS. Both of these things cannot exist in an FPS, because the player does not have enough options.
>Nobody takes it serious outside of NA
Which is why Japan and South Korea dominate most games? Which is why Europeans have won EVO as recently as two years ago?
>Strategy and tactic
But mostly working as a team. Individual strategy in CS is much much less important than in fighting games. I play both. I know what the fuck I'm talking about.
>>337554714
>Stereotypical /v/irgin
/v/ hates fighting games because they don't understand them, and are bad at them....
You're just butthurt because your arguments have no substance, and all you can do is say buzzwords.
Your argument is literally "No, you're wrong, I'm right because I said I'm right". Every time you try another argument, it's immediately debunked. You literally can't argue why fighting games aren't as competitive, because you don't understand why they're competitive in the first place.
Cave diving simulators.
Seriously though, probably Shoot the Bullet scoring as that required both extreme reflexes and thinking on par with puzzle optimization.
Cave diving simulators aren't hard as long as you prioritize not drowning. Though one of them did make me discard all my jumping upgrades to get a secret item.
>>337554842
Holy of mother of fucking god you need to work on your reading comprehension.Everyone is not an evo tournyfag,people who spam to win are going encourage others to spam to win,and only casuals buy fighting games now a days while the rest of the pros fuck off somewhere.AGAIN THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE FROM ONLINE I only sometimes have trouble with projectile spammers I never said I couldn't deal with them they are fucking annoying thats my fucking problem you idiot,it's like fly that just wont fuck off.
>I doubt it if you think anti airs are the only way to deal with fireballs, wtf?
Again chun li fast airs kicks gives her a frame advantage before a projectile spammer initiates the start up frame for a fireball attack
>>337541445
SpaceChem
My brain is literally not compatible with the way of thinking that is required for that game.
Doom + Project Brutality + Spawn Preset: Death Wish + Last man on earth
>>337554357
I'm not a burger, but they did win the biggest esports tournament in history last year
>>337541445
I don't know, gotta go with metal slug 3's 1CC mode I guess.
>>337553338
>It's much tougher to remember something, and then apply it against someone who's out to stop you and muck up the works, than applying it against a static game
This is such a meaningless statement. No it isn't, because it depends entirely on how demanding the games are. A game which demands superhuman precision and consistency will always be tougher than a slow paced multiplayer game, even if it's 100% static. These kinds of absolute comparions are dumb.
>>337554565
It's possible this person just doesn't play hard games in general. It's not farfetched to think this might actually be the hardest game someone has played. Especially blind.
>>337541445
Tak and the power of JuJu
>>337555443
>Holy of mother of fucking god you need to work on your reading comprehension
The fucking irony, how about you read my other post.
>It dosent matter if you, or anyone else, loses to spammers. Just because you aren't skilled at fighting games dosent mean fighting games don't require skill. In fact, if you weren't an absolute pants-on-head retard, you would realize that it would indicate the opposite because you still need to become more skilled to beat your opponents.
You still haven't responded to this yet so I don't know why you bothered repeating your excuse.
>only casuals buy fighting games now a days while the rest of the pros fuck off somewhere
It's the other way around numbnuts, the pro scene is growing but games like SFV, Guilty Gear XrD, and Killer Instinct have sold like shit
>Again chun li fast airs kicks gives her a frame advantage before a projectile spammer initiates the start up frame for a fireball attack
Can you tell me the specific move that you use because I still cant understand you. First you say it's her anti-air kick now you're saying it's her "fast airs kicks".
>>337543541
Shmups have a ton of transferable skills, becoming good at one of them will make you much better at all of them.
>>337556091
>The fucking irony, how about you read my other post.
My main fucking point was that spamming is an exploit,and spammer themselves could be dealt with,your fucking problem is that you came to a conclusion implying that I think spammars was some godly force that were untouchable.even tho I said in previous that I majority of the time win against them for spamming.Than you went >HUR DUR YOU JUST SUCK
>You still haven't responded to this yet so I don't know why you bothered repeating your excuse.
I never said fighting game didn't require any skill infact I defended fighting fighting games saying that they require much skill it's the spammers that are the problem and I could deal with them only if I didn't fight 90% percent of the time
>Can you tell me the specific move that you use because I still cant understand you. First you say it's her anti-air kick now you're saying it's her "fast airs kicks".
Her High kick,and that one moves where she double kicks the enemy in mid air
>>337555443
>People who spam to win are going to encourage others to spam to win
Uhh, only if it works. Normally it doesn't work. Hell, since the late 90s, most games give you tools to deal with them. Almost every fighting game has EX Moves, Rolls, or Airdashing, all of which are great anti-fireball tools.
The last time I remember playing a game that made zoning strong was Injustice. Sad too, because zoning was really braindead in that game.
>>337556757
fuck I'm tired let me re write this
My main fucking point was that spamming is an exploit,and spammer themselves could be dealt with,your fucking problem is that you came to a conclusion implying that I think spammars was some godly force that were untouchable.even tho I said in my previous post that the majority of the time I win against them for spamming.Than you went >HUR DUR YOU JUST SUCK
>>337554069
While I think Melee isn't strictly a fighting game, it does have a lot of the same skills required like neutral, spacing, and general timing. That being said, Armada and Leffen play for fucking hours on end, and go to dozens of American tournaments a year, not to mention other European tournaments outside of Sweden, which they always clean up at. But again, these two guys are outliers. There's not really anyone in Europe that can keep up with them, outside of Ice on a good day.
>>337556757
>>337556907
>My main fucking point was that spamming is an exploit
It's like we're having the same exact conversation all over again. Its not a fucking exploit if there's ways to work around it and punish it, which there is. An exploit would be something that's actually hard to deal with, not something that can be easily taken advantage of, since throwing fireballs leaves you exposed at close range and you can easily get in close range if the opponent is just spamming.
>Than you went >HUR DUR YOU JUST SUCK
You shouldn't be suprised people think you suck when you think these are good tools to use against a projectile spammer
>Her High kick,and that one moves where she double kicks the enemy in mid air
>>337541445
>rhythm
>skill
no anon, they just require good muscle memory and lots of autism to repeat song tens, sometimes hundreds of times to learn patterns.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsXP8qeFF6A&t=92
same for shmups
Grand Strategy require same amount of skill as TRPGs - planning, devising strategy, etc. Just on a different scale.
As to your original question:SpaceChemmostly because later puzzles were fucking insane.
AlsoDwarf Fortresssimply because, no matter what you do you can't win that game - eventually something WILL go wrong and it WILL end up horribly.
>>337557431
>same for shmups
No it isn't, don't talk about things you have 0 knowledge of. Unlike rhythm games, the games do not require you to preform a very specific set of actions every time with no room for deviation. A good scoring route isn't going to appear out of thin air, you actually have to take a lot of time studying the game's systems indepth and experimenting with different routes.
>>337557875
>you need to take time learning note patterns in rhythm games
vs
>you need to take time learning bullet patterns in shmup games
yeah, sure anon, whatever you say
>>337558179
Learning bullet patterns is the bare minimum, it does not make you good at the games. Dodging them won't make your score go up in most games.
>>337557395
>It's like we're having the same exact conversation all over again.
No your just to stupid to look up the word in a fucking dictionary
> Its not a fucking exploit if there's ways to work around it and punish it, which there is.
It's still an exploit if a player can still damage by spamming a good fighting game limit amount fireballs you could shoot out and not do chip damage.and I already establish how to get around it by using chun li
>not something that can be easily taken advantage of
That is what a fucking exploit is dumb ass,it's not broken just annoying,and you can't keep pulling off so many super bar attacks to get with in range so I chun li basic attacks to stop this shit which works by the due to her mobility
>since throwing fireballs leaves you exposed at close range and you can easily get in close range if the opponent is just spamming.
To bad the characters move like molasses and how fast your opponent can restart the fireball attack because it only takes like 2 frames for them to do it again.so your only chance is to use a fast pace character like chun li
>You shouldn't be suprised people think you suck when you think these are good tools to use against a projectile spammer
I use what works,and what I use works against spammers
>>337555714
>8 years to get a rhythm game song to 95% is the hardest thing ever.
>pro fighting game players like Daigo and Alex Valle have been playing those games for literal decades and they still lose all the time
>playing a chess grandmaster is easy because it takes no mechanical skill
Difficulty is a silly word that only applies to single player games, anyway. Competitive games are not particularly easy or hard on their own compared to the challenge that a skilled opponent provides. The challenge that a skilled opponent can provide, as in the example of Chess, is not particularly dependent on the mechanical or athletic skill required to play the game.
>>337558525
>It's still an exploit if a player can still damage by spamming a good fighting game limit amount fireballs you could shoot out and not do chip damage
It's not an exploit because the player would take minuscule chip damage while the spammer would be eating a full fucking combo.
I guess all shoryuken moves are exploits because it does chip damage and there's little you can do to stop one from happening right? Before you go full retard and say that it is an exploit, a blocked shoryuken is one of the most punishable moves in street fighter so anyone who misses would take massive damage.
>That is what a fucking exploit is dumb ass
There's your top-tier reading comprehension skills at work again. I said that it's easy to take advantage of by the person who ISINT spamming, because spamming is predictable and it leaves the person throwing fireballs vunerable.
>because it only takes like 2 frames for them to do it again
That's it, you really don't know shit about fighting games.
Nobody in street fighter has ever had a 2 frame fireball, nobody in street fighter has ever had a 2 frame cooldown/vunerability period on their fireball.
>FPS/RTS isn't at the top
lmao
UT instagib should be at the top
Why are fighting games players such fags?
>>337559434
>It's not an exploit because the player would take minuscule chip damage while the spammer would be eating a full fucking combo.
When you have akuma spammers jumping around spamming fire balls yes its a fucking exploit.And a spammer can still take away half your fucking health even if it takes longer for the match to end by him spamming to chip away your health.
>I guess all shoryuken moves are exploits because it does chip damage and there's little you can do to stop one from happening right?
Why the fuck are you comparing a projectile attack to a physical attack you dumb fuck,and of course shoryuken has a long recovery frame to punish projectile spam doesn't.A shoryuken while not stationary doesn't go half way across the screen.
>I said that it's easy to take advantage of by the person who ISINT spamming, because spamming is predictable and it leaves the person throwing fireballs vunerable.
Again Street fighter characters move like molasses and spammers don't stay in one place when they spam.Backwards fireball throw-Forward fireball throw while they constantly hop around like kangaroo's doing chip damage is your brain processing this information.
>That's it, you really don't know shit about fighting games.
Oh I know enough about fighting games,I know they take skill and reflexes ,and I also Street fighter 4 and 5 are both shitty fighting games.
>>337541445
Ninja gaiden (NES)
>>337560327
>And a spammer can still take away half your fucking health even if it takes longer for the match to end by him spamming to chip away your health
not if you know how to play the fucking game because theres plenty of ways to avoid fireballs and get to close range quickly. I don;t know how many times I have to keep saying this until you realize that you can do more to deal with fireballs other than "high kicks"
>Again Street fighter characters move like molasses and spammers don't stay in one place when they spam
so you don't know shit about zoning or space control either do you? Here's a hint, you can only retreat so far back until you hit a wall, then you're trapped.
>Why the fuck are you comparing a projectile attack to a physical attack you dumb fuck,and of course shoryuken has a long recovery frame to punish projectile spam doesn't.A shoryuken while not stationary doesn't go half way across the screen.
Its the same as your excuse for fireballs, once someone uses it you have to block it and it causes chip.
>Oh I know enough about fighting games
you don't if you think fireballs are anywhere in the realm of 2-frame attacks
>I also think street fighter 4 is a shitty fighting game
you mean the one with focus attacks and focus dashes where you can straight up absorb fireballs and beat the shit out of your opponent for trying it? Get the fuck out of here.
>>337541445
