1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre. I really want to see a Sonic Adventure 3.
Meanwhile check out this awesome video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMKKgXRdgzw
the team that made the first 2 sonic adventure games disbanded if I remember correctly.
>>337467591
That sucks, whoever makes the new Sonic games sucks
sonic always sucked
>it's another we pretend Sonic 06 wasn't Adventure 3 and was of the same quality as Adventure 1 and 2 episode
>>337468731
Are you kidding me?
The first side scrolling Sonic games on the Genesis were some of the best 16-bit games that put the Sega Genesis onto the map. Sure, Sonic-R and 3D blast on Saturn sucked but Sonic came back big time with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 on the Dreamcast which were some of the best 3D platformers of all time!
I will admit however that the Sonic games after SA2 like Sonic 2006 aren't very good but when done right, Sonic games are like nothing else
>>337468630
Yes they do.
>>337467459
Because Sonic '06 happened.
>>337467459
Sonic 06 was Adventure 3. Same formula of having different stages playable by different characters with different abilities. Much focus on the plot.
Problem is, it was bugged to hell and incomplete.
>>337468876
>same quality
So, complete shit?
>>337467459
Sonic '06 was SA3
Keep denying
Long story short: Sega doesn't want to use the extended cast after 06 happened and the current writers are complete shit, while Iizuka has no idea what he's doing and keeps trying to re-invent the wheel.
>>337469750
If it was Sonic Adventure 3, it would've been called Sonic Adventure 3.
>>337467459
Sonic Adventure series was crap. Every 3D sonic game other than the isometric Sonic 3D Blast was at best mediocre. Sonic has been dead for decades.
Unleashed was Sonic Adventure 3. Known in Japan as Sonic World Adventure.
I wish everything from SA1 to Colors never existed, it's that period of time where the games were badly designed and Sonic wasn't the focus of the game
Let's be real, only the Classics to 3&K and Generations are the only well designed Sonic games SEGA ever did. (Advance series and Rush MAYBE, since they pretty much play like Genesis games)
Sonic, Tails, Knuckles (Maybe CD Amy too) and Robotnik were enough, i can't help to think why they didnt' expand on that
>>337469868
This. Why is this hard to understand?
>>337467459
>best in the platform genre
No they arent. Some very few sonic and shadow levels are fun but thats it.
Reminder that "gotta go fast" is a shitty meme that ruined Sonic ever since Sonic 2 added the spin dash.
>>337467459
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=m1bBnpkDjNI
>>337469861
Re invent the wheel is not even accurate. More like he has no idea what the wheel is, and keeps making little warped pizza slices and stapling random primitive geometrical shapes onto it thinking they'll make it roll better somehow.
>Freedom Planet is the best sonic game in years.
https://youtu.be/U_YxYxUZL_E
This is a great video
>>337468876
06 wasn't Adventure 3, Unleashed was.
>>337467459
How the fuck is this channel successful..?!
>>337467459
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=kLIFXmEqqVw
>>337467459
>that video
Is that Tom Petty?
>>337470236
Because it uses the exact same mechanics as the Adventure games, and only the adventure games.
>multiple story modes
>multiple playable characters within the story modes
>explorable hub worlds with side missions
>true ending and final boss is only available after completing all story modes
>True final level uses all playable characters
>upgrades
There's such a thing as reading between the lines anon
>>337470982
Also:
Adventure: One main hedgehog.
Adventure 2: Two main hedgehogs, two story modes.
06: Three main hedgehogs, three story modes.
They took the Adventure formula and extrapolated it in every way, they just did a really shitty job of it.
>>337470982
>>337471243
dont forget it's the "real world" as well. while for example, Unleashed is more of a cartoony pixar facsimile of the real world. with places like "spagonia" which is "europeland"
>>337470982
>>337471243
Okay, yes. 06 has an Adventure-style formula. I understand that. How does that prevent SEGA from making another Adventure-style game and calling at Adventure 3? They're not going to call it Adventure 4 because of 06's similar formula.
Sonic Advance is very similar in style to Sonic 2, but that doesn't make it Sonic 4, as much as we'd like to say that it is.
>people actually want a Sonic Adventure 3
Is this just the Chao Garden meme in full effect? I could see why someone would want a new game like the Genesis classics, and I could see why somebody would want a game like Unleashed/Colors/Generations' 3D levels. I just don't get the Sonic Adventure bandwagon, the speed levels were the only good ones (of which there were few) and then it had some nifty side modes like the Kart Racing, Chao Garden, and the unlockable Green Hill at the end.
Grimdark plot, treasure hunting, third-person shooting and the like simply have no place in the Sonic franchise. The franchise is pretty stale in it's current form, but trying to take it back to the Adventure design ethos strikes me as one step forward and two steps back.
>>337472159
>Sonic Adventure
>grimdark plot
Aside from Gerald's execution in 2, there's nothing "dark" about SA.
>>337467459
Chao garden source code is missing.
>>337472665
And the whole ark got executed.
>>337471971
because they already tried with Sonic 06 and it failed horribly.
thats why. theyve decided to ditch the friends people complained about and focus solely on sonic. and even that seems to be hard for them to get right
>>337472665
grimdark may have been the wrong word. Ham-fisted, edgy, poorly-written, overintrusive, unnecessary, jarring. Pick your favorites from this list, either way the story was unnecessary, they tried putting in "emotional" moments with characters like Amy and Tikal and it didn't fucking work, and they tried writing a 'proper' plot for Sonic but still strayed away from all of the big questions, like why the fuck is nobody question these anthropomorphic characters roaming around in a world that's trying to be realistic.
E-102 Gamma's story was boss though because it can be interpreted in a couple of different ways, and it actually succeeds in being sort of deep, whilst also being simple, easy-to-follow and light on dialog.
>>337468731
like your mom lmao
>>337467459
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre
They really weren't.
>>337471971
It doesn't really, especially because 06's story was so bad that it literally wrote itself out of existence.
I just think it's intellectually dishonest to complain about sega not making Adventure 3 when 06 exactly that in everything but name
>>337473219
+1 on this, pretty much
If the game was PURELY speed levels, the physics/controls were 10x more stable, and the other characters simply had different routes and abilities (a la Sonic 3 & Knuckles), then /maybe/ the Adventure games could have been up there with the best platformers, but as it stands they're hardly even in the top 10 of their own franchise, let alone gaming as a whole.
>>337473219
Yeah, anyone who says that they are hasn't played them since release
>>337473832
There should be speed levels where you aren't tied to a fucking roller coaster track.
Give me wide open levels, rolling hills, and massive leaps, damnit.
Why do people like SA2? I can't stand that game but yet I love 1.
>>337469583
Yes?
How would YOU save the sonic series?
>>337474406
Sonic and Megaman crossover game with a viewtiful Joe cameo.
>>337472159
Oh they could. They won't because they think the Adventure formula is a failure since 06 was critically panned. They don't understand that their games are disliked for being rushed pieces of poorly made shit. They just assume the thing they intended for is just disliked.
For example, they'll assume people don't want classic gameplay because Sonic 4 bombed, even though it's because Sonic 4 was a horrid piece of shit and they ruined it further by calling it Sonic 4.
>>337474406
replace all the characters with Queen's Blade cast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ukicKSCas
>>337467459
probably because the run a high risk of fucking it up, budget also.
most people don't like Sonic Adventure 1 or 2 from a technical perspective. They were pretty glitchy games.
However, the right combination of style, music, player freedom and variety made people overlook the wonky aspects of the game.
it'll be difficult to rekindle all that, you can't buy that sort of inspiration.
>some of the best games in the platform genre
You obviously have no taste. Take that back.
>>337469185
>can't jump-boost on loops
I knew that game was shit.
I imagine a combination of:
>Sonic 06 and Sonic Boom failing spectacularly and damaging the brand twice.
>The sonic games on mobile doing well.
>Sonic Unleashed, released as Sonic World Adventure (Japanese: ソニックワールドアドベンチャー Hepburn: Sonikku Wārudo Adobenchā?) in Japan,[9] is a 2008 video game in the Sonic the Hedgehog series developed by Sonic Team[1] and published by Sega for multiple platforms in 2008.
>implying Adventure 3 doesn't already existUnleashed was originally going to be a "back to basics" Sonic game that had elements of Adventure and Heroes. There originally wasn't going to be a Werehog, those sections were supposed to be for Knuckles, but in early planning they decided against it because they didn't think they could make him interesting enough. There were also going to be Tails flying sections, but those were cut and most interactions with Tails were replaced with Chip after Knuckles was already decided to be cut from the game. The story and gameplay were adapted into a new game so that it would feel more natural. Eggman Land was pretty much just going to be a Sonic Heroes level swapping between all the characters to solve puzzles and platform etc.No, I don't have a source. Either believe me or don't.
>>337474176
If you replay Sonic Adventure 1, it was actually pretty good in that regard. The second half of Windy Valley and the first section of Speed Highway were pretty 'rollercoaster' but Twinkle Park, Lost world, Red Canyon, Ice Cap and the like had some pretty decent sections which weren't 'rollercoaster'-esque. Sonic Adventure 2 is where that trend started coming out in full force.
>>337469185
Are the modern remakes of Sonic 1 perfect physics clones of the original Mega Drive game?
>>337476861
If you mean the iOS/Android versions of Sonic 1, then yes, it's pretty much a 1:1 recreation of the Genesis Sonic engine. Taxman had been working on his version of the physics engine for years, so in many ways Sonic 1, 2 and CD on the Taxman Engine are actually /improved/ over the original engine because they could go back and retroactively fix any oddities of the old physics, not to mention add extra features
>>337477206
I kinda wish that version was on steam or something. Is the 3D remake of Sonic 1 just as good?
>>337476861
No. They are on a new engine with new physics that are designed to be what the original engine was supposed to be without all the wonky bugs and exploits. All the speed tricks still exist and all that, but it's not the same.
>>337476235
I want a Heroes 2 so badly.
>>337467459
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre.
It always amazes me when people say this and actually mean it.
Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were always regarded as mediocre by a large audience.
I can see someone enjoying the games, even a lot, but you must be seriously delusional to thing they are are some of the "best in the platform genre".
Anyone know how often Generations goes on sale in Steam? I want to try it, but I'm an ultra poorfag.
>>337478057
Well I enjoyed them more than Mario 64 which is considered the holy grail of 3D platforming. I guess I have a weird taste in games.
Anyway here's another cool video this ones funny AF
https://youtu.be/dtsoAuNJmgU
There are already three games that could potentially be considered "Sonic Adventure 3"; if you insist none of them count then you're just admitting you only care about a stupid name and not the actual quality of the gameplay.
>>337478349
Quite a bit. Sega almost always has sales every season, and Generations I wouldn't be surprised to see for $5-$10.
![Yasuhara[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XHlMbEr.jpg "Yasuhara[1].jpg")
Reminder that the Sonic franchise has only ever had one single competent level designer who knew what he was doing, and he left in 2002. Every game he didn't work on has had mediocre level design at best.
>>337478671
The main trait of a Sonic Adventure fan is not caring about the quality of the gameplay
>>337474825
this
*pic of Vanilla dressed as Cattleya*
>>337478965
Yeah but then again, he also worked on the map design for Sonic R and 3D Blast, both of which were turds. Also, I was quite fond of Colors, Unleashed (Day) and Generations (Modern), even without his input.
I appreciate the impact he's had on the series but he's no level design God, he just happened to be in charge of level design during the Genesis days back when SEGA actually gave a shit about Sonic and gave their developers the time/resources to thrive
>>337479890
Honestly Generations is one of the few sonic games I can enjoy. They aren't total clusterfucks physics and control wise.
Sonic has been fucking garbage for over 10 years, who but total autists give a shit about this retarded character and series?
>>337480861
Black people.
>>337480861
>>337480919
exactly like your mom lmao
>>337480919
>>337467459
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre.
>This is what delusional Gamecube kiddies actually think
>>337478997
Lmao
>>337470015
>Generations
>Well Designed
Stop with this meme the game is not good
>>337472159
>I could see why someone would want a new game like the Genesis classics
After the disaster that was Sonic 4 I think nobody wants to see Sega ever try again
>>337472159
>I could see why somebody would want a game like Unleashed/Colors/Generations' 3D levels
Those faggots should just play Temple Run
EYEEEEEEEEEEEAHHHHHH YEEEEEEEE AHHHHH WEEEEEE
EYEEEEEEEEEEEEH
>>337478965
Carol Yas was largely the genius behind the original Sonic games. Do you know why he left? Pic related.And Sega has been doing exactly what he said they would do.
>>337482285
The modern levels in Generations are fucking ace, whether you personally appreciate them or not. I do think people circlejerk the game too much though - the classic Sonic levels are a poor approximation of actual 2D Sonic, the bosses are all utter shite, and don't even get me started on the extra missions that involve characters like Vector or Rouge.
It's dumb that Generations seems to get a free pass from fans when it suffers from exactly the same problems as the Adventure games and Unleashed: half of the game is exactly what Sonic should be, and half of the game is poorly thought out padding and nonsense.
Also, castrate whoever let the Time Eater get past the testing phase, that might just be one of the least enjoyable endgame bosses of all time
>>337477348
the 3DS Sonic 1 is just a different renderer slapped onto an emulated version I think. it's not as smooth as the Taxman's full remakes (though I haven't played Sonic 1 or 2 because they are only on fucking phones)
>>337467459
Sonic Adventure has always been pure garbage and the only reason you like them is because you were a stupid child who ate that shit up when it came out
Japanese game design in general has been going steadily down the drain as they've become more and more influenced by western game design ideals.
You don't want Sonic Adventure 3 to happen in the near future. SA1 and 2 weren't that great either to be perfectly honest.
>>337474406
I would end it right there
I'm tired of his legacy being ruined by all the newfags to the franchise who actually think braindead garbage like Unleashed is good gameplay
>>337477206
The Retro Engine is not a Physics Engine
>>337467459
Nah knuckles ruined adventures. Forget the fact that this bastard looses the crystal all the time but they made his sections slower than paint drying. Knuckles is awesome he uses his fist let's make his sections a bmup. Nope we're just going to have him dig within a time limit. Adventures doesn't hold up at all today like m64
>>337467459
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre
You need to take your nostalgia glasses off. They range from shit to playable.
>>337470015
Colors is literally a better Generations, what are you on about?
>>337478965
>Every game he didn't work on has had mediocre level design at best.
Not true since Advance 1 had some pretty good level design
However Yas was indeed godtier and he was the reasons 1,2 and 3K were as great as they were
Also if it wasn't for him Sonic would have been a very linear game since Naka intially only wanted to make a Fast Mario Game 'till Yas convinced him otherwise
>>337474406
For one, I'd keep the mechanics the same as they were in Generations but just slightly slower. Boost would instead be spindash, where it gradually gets slower unless you kill something while in spindash to maintain or boost speed for a short moment. No fucking 2D segments.
>>337483005
I know, it's a generalized 2D game engine that supports palette manipulation, traditional sprite based gaming, yada yada yada who cares, Taxman made the Retro Engine and he recreated the original Sonic physics in it. You're just being pedantic
>>337470015
Knuckles was a shit fest with lots of bugs and slow down. The American team really blew it plus if you actually had genesis you'd know that backwards compatability rarely worked
>>337483070
That does sort of feel like the obvious choice, doesn't it?
Knuckles brawler levels. I mean they tried it with Unleashed, and people hated it because it wasn't Sanicfast, I feel like the whole idea would have gone over better if the "werehog" levels were just Knuckles levels and they rebranded it as a Sonic and Knuckles sequel
>>337482520
I would normally want to complain about memes, but Flynn just knows how to write fucking Sonic characters. I'll give that one a pass for being topical.
I tried the BTS and ATS fangames and I thought they were pretty alright. Great OST.
>>337479890
>he also worked on the map design for Sonic R and 3D Blast, both of which were turds
This is a disingenous post at best
Sonic R had some interesting track design which was let down by the poor controls
3D Blast's map design wasn't bad at all it's just the game itself was shit
Reminder that he also hated working on 3D Blast
>"I was opposed to [Sega's] decision to create games that use 'Sonic-something' so that they can sell it easily. I wanted to make good games, not any games that used the Sonic character in a haphazard way."
- Yasuhara on his work on the Traveller's Tales-developed Sonic titles
>>337479890
Also you're retarded as fuck
Yasuhara was a fucking level design God
He was the reason 1/2/3K were as good as they were
He was also the Director of Sonic 3 and Knuckles aka the best game in the series
Why do so many anons absolutely loathe adventure 1 and 2? Whenever I see these games brought up here they get bashed much harder than sonic 06, unleashed and shadow the hedgehog. Look up a list of bad sonic games and adventure is never listed. Look up a list of good sonic games and it's always listed. What's the deal /v/?
>>337483843
/v/ is hipster as all fuck, have you not realized? Adventure was kind of meh, but A2 was great stuff, if a bit buggy sometimes.
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre
oh my god, you're serious
>>337483843
It's hip to not like Sonic after the trainwreck that was Rise of Lyric released.
>>337482724
Both halves are mediocre
The modern levels aren't good either
Generations is only good for the nostalgia/fanservice not much else
It's a good anniversary game it's not a good sonic game
>>337484030
And Egoraptor training a legion of 13 year olds to parrot his retarded opinions.
>>337467459
The Sonic Adventure games have literally all the flaws the newer 3D Sonic games have. Please stop letting your nostalgia inhibit your ability to look at a game objectively.
>>337469185
That webm
>>337483328
>he recreated the original Sonic physics
Pretty sure he just ported the game over
Many people on the hacking/fangaming community have been trying to recreate the physics accurately for years and some have come close(Mercury's work on Sonic Fan Remix for example) but they still haven't gotten it down
In other words Taxman probably wouldn't be able replicate those physics with modern-day graphics because he wouldn't be able to simply port them over from the Genesis games
>>337484106
People who prefer Adventure to A2, and Generations to Colors are actually retarded. Fun fact.
>>337474406
Level creator option for 30th anniversary
>>337484207
They're less linear and don't depend as much on static rails and QTE shit. You have much more freedom in control and gameplay, and they control far better as standard 3d platformers. The boost games control like dogshit at anything less than mach speed, and when you're at mach speed you can barely do anything anyway.
>>337484305
>Pretty sure he just ported the game over
He did not. He used his own physics engine.
>>337484030
People have been hating Sonic ever since Sega went third party. 06 and Boom are just convenient scapegoats for Sonic fans, so they can pretend it's only those games giving the series a bad rep and not the entire fucking franchise giving it a bad rep.
>>337483934
SA1 was better than SA2
Both are mediocre though
The reason why they both get bashed alot is because of Insufferable Adventurefags who keep showing up here
>>337484135
>>337467459
>adventure games
>best in the series let alone the platform genre
>>337484305
Wrong. He did recreate the games from scratch in a custom engine. It's the only way certain things were possible such as widescreen and consistent 60 fps. They are absolutely confirmed not to be emulations or anywhere near emulations.
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre.
>>337469185
jesus christ, just calculate the jump trajectory based on the direction of the face normal you jump on, its not that hard, fucking Mario Galaxy did that shit.
>>337484530
>SA1 was better than SA2
Fucking. How? Because it had shittier Knuckles segments? Because the Amy, Tails, and Big segments that were worse than anything in A2? Are you trolling me, or baiting, or whatever the new meme is?
>>337484478
I'm not saying Sonic hasn't had a bad rep before Boom or 06 but Boom basically threw out whatever good will Colors and Generations brought towards the series and then some. We've went from "3D Sonic was never good, Sega should go back to the classics!!!" to "Genesis Sonic was never good either."
>>337484305
This post is wrong on many levels
Yes, Taxman recreated the original Sonic physics in his own engine, it's not a port. There would literally be no point of him using the Retro Engine if he was just porting the game over - SEGA can do that shit themselves, they went with Christian because of all the advantages his engine brought to the table and how extensively he knew the physics of old Sonic.
And no, there have been dozens in the hacking/fangaming community to authentically recreate the original Sonic physics, Christian wasn't even the first guy to do it, the creator of Sonic Mettrix did it years prior, and he (Stealth) even ended up working with Christian on the iOS/Android ports
Hell, the website Sonic Retro has pretty much every element of the original Sonic physics documented in pseudocode (http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Physics_Guide). At this point, the only people who can't replicate the Genesis Sonic physics/code are SEGA themselves
>>337467459
The adventure games weren't that good.
>>337484530
They are both mediocre. But 1 is worse than 2.
1 has Big, Amy, far worse Chao, and no multiplayer.
Chao and multiplayer are the Adventure games' only redeemable qualities.
That shallow as fuck Sonic, Treasure Hunting, and Mech gameplay is all better relegated to mini games and party games. 2 renders them as such, whereas 1 makes them the only feasible way to focus on the game.
>>337484435
>"Retro Engine is an engine created by "The Taxman" (Christian Whitehead). It is designed to deliver features from the 32-bit console era and below, and focuses on things like raster effects, palette manipulations, 'mode 7', and other features of retro games from back then"
http://info.sonicretro.org/Retro_Engine
The Retro Engine is not a Physics Engine and the source code for the classics is long gone end of story
>>337485083
>But 1 is worse than 2.
This is wrong
1 has more Sonic levels
1 has Tails flying levels
1 has tolerable Knuckles Treasure Hunting
>Everyone says "X game isn't a good Sonic game"
>Check out gameplay of various sonic games
>Most of the praised sections involve you holding a direction for 5-10 seconds at a time then going through a brain dead obstacle like jumping over a rock
>2D sonic games are so fucking old who could still holds their legacy respective to the series?
Sonic Fans are called the worst for a reason.
>>337485180
see >>337484970, you moron
Also read this article whilst you're at it: http://toucharcade.com/2009/07/29/christian-whitehead-on-sonic-cd-and-his-retro-engine/
He absolutely recreated Sonic CD using scripts within his own engine. And those scripts aren't ported. He even thanks Sonic Retro for their knowledge of the physics engine which helped him recreate it
Stop being a retard
>>337485180
I never said retro engine was a physics engine, I said he used his own physics engine, because he did. It's not a port, he didn't use the genesis physics, but rather his own recreation of them.
>>337484695
>Because it had shittier Knuckles segments?
You're an idiot
Knuckles segments were nowhere near as annoying as in 2 hence they were a million times better by default
Knuckles/Rouge and Tails/Eggman on 2 were shit(especially the former)
Tails flying levels were more fun than shooting garbage in 2
There was more Sonic levels and the Sonic levels in SA1 were more non-linear and better designed
The music was better too so was the art style
>>337485384
1 does have a slight edge over 2 in those ways. But they're so unimportant in the big picture.
The actual character gameplay of both games is mediocre and shallow, regardless of which one did it slightly better.
What matters is how the mediocre and shallow gameplay styles are complemented. 2 did a much better job at complementing them.
>>337485656
>tfw it's the only eggman game
I'm surprised there's no romhack where you gotta complete levels backwards(with adjustments to structure to make it possible) without rings but having a benefit of having higher top speed.
>>337485592
He didn't use any other engine...the retro engine was what he used
He didn't recreate the physics he just ported over the genesis ones
The only time he tampered with the physics was with Tails in CD who used S3 Physics in which his roll-jump was modified to behave like CD's
>>337485656
>Knuckles segments were nowhere near as annoying as in 2 hence they were a million times better by default
What?
>The radar is gimped so you can only search for the emeralds in a particular order
>The levels are much larger making them harder to explore
>The levels aren't based on segments of the Sonic levels, so you don't have pre-existing knowledge of hiding places and the like
>Adventure 1 didn't force you to switch characters each mission, so when you played the Knuckles it felt like you wanted to, rather than being obligated to
>Adventure 1 had less randomized hiding spots, so it was easier on repeat playthroughs
Bonus points to Knuckles for not having Mad Space though, whoever put that in the Rouge campaign (that and the level with the 5 minute timer) deserved to be shot
>>337485759
>2 did a much better job at complementing them.
Except not really
Sonic has better controls in 1
Knuckles was not as annoying in 1
Tails flying stages>>>>>>>>> Mech Shooting
Gamma Shooting was faster and more fun than Tails/Eggman stages
>>337484135
Yep! this piece of shit seems to know how to poisened the brain dead youtubers who can't for the love of god form there own opinion
>>337485818
At least we have this
http://info.sonicretro.org/Doctor_Robotnik's_Creature_Capture
>>337467459
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre
Stopped reading there.
Since you fellas are talking retro engines, do you guys have any good stuff that can help someone who is bad at understanding programming to make their own game ROM?
>>337485916
Read the sentence again I was saying 1's Knuckles Segments were more tolerable(better) than 2's
>>337485884
Dude you're fucking baiting aren't you. Please read >>337484970 and >>337485180, and the article linked in the latter. In particular
>EH: How much research did you do on the Sonic CD game? The physics in your demo look spot on, what was the trick behind that?
>CW: Quite a lot to be honest, it owes much to my many years as a Sonic fan. If you go to http://www.sonicretro.org/ you'll see a community that's very interested in dissecting the original games. That's why the demo was made in a short time, I know Sonic inside out, and so have a very clear understanding as to how it can be recreated. It involved a lot of frame by frame analysis of the game running in an emulator to observe how the game (and all its objects) behaves in detail. I could go on and on, but y'know... trade secrets?
Also:
>One thing I want to make very clear: The Retro Engine and RSDK are not magic, it will NOT instantly port a game for you (or toast your bread either). All it does is provide a fast and efficient 2D framework, which has features very similar to what were present in many 2D games of the 'golden' 16 and early 32 bit era along with a nice editors and powerful scripting system. It takes the hassle out of having to set up API's, you can just get down to business.
I don't want to pull the 'my dad works at nintendo card' but I know Christian quite well. He recreated the physics with help from Stealth, who also accurately recreated the original physics in his own Headcannon Engine, and the help of many of Sonic Retro's resident hacking autists. No direct porting of anything took place in the creation of the iOS ports, except for the porting of tile data
fact: people didn't consider adventure 2 shit until 06 came out
fact: this was a deacde ago so it's no surprise you don't remember
>>337474406
End it, release some ports of classic games with generations graphics and classic physics.
>>337486157
But can he actually write them from scratch with a modern physics engine like say...Havok?
I doubt it
>>337486026
It's all shallow shit. You can point to all of the ways one shallow piece of shit is slightly less shallow and shitty than the other, but they're both shallow pieces of shit.
No intricate physics system to jointly facilitate speed management/mastery, exploration, and platforming. Minimal branching paths. Levels aren't designed with multiple playstyles anymore. Bottomless pits are abused fucking everywhere. Substance takes a backseat for the sake of spectacle, theatrics, and cinematic shit. They're symptomatic of Sonic's fetish for trying to prove that his dick is bigger than Mario's, and represent the 'patient zero' for the shallow, gimmick ridden Sonic games that have dominated the main franchise's lineup for almost 2 decades now.
Yeah, I enjoy it for what it is, but it's ultimately shallow and cheap gameplay. Which is why I'd rather have them be a means for multiplayer enjoyment.
Likewise with the Chao. Love it or hate it, that shit was impressively deep for a minigame. It had more replay value than the game proper, rendering it the entire reason I went back to play it ever. 1 also had Chao, but it was much more limited (by virtue of being the first go at it, of course).
1 might have slightly better character gameplay, but the character gameplay is abysmal regardless, in the grand scheme of things, to the point where it doesn't even matter. They're both shallow. 2 complements this shallowness better by relegating them to single player mini games for collecting shit for your chao, or multiplayer party games to ruin friendships.
>>337484324
Agreed on both points. That picture needs to make Adventure 1 a Jimmy Dean microwave burger or something.
>>337484530
>SA1 was better than SA2
No it is fucking not. Adventure 1 is complete trash all the way through, save for only a couple of the Sonic levels (most of which were bad.)
>>337485384
>1 has more Sonic levels
This is incorrect as SA2 has just as many Sonic/Shadow levels as 1 had just Sonic levels (more if you count Green Hill + Cannon Core), and they're of much higher quality too with better controls, design and movesets. (such as no longer have to charge your spindash to do the lightspeed dash)
>1 has Tails flying levels
You mean the butchered Sonic levels that it makes you replay a small section of? I wouldn't really count this as a positive unless you're a big Tails fan.
>1 has tolerable Knuckles Treasure Hunting
See above. More recycle sections of levels repurposed for worse gameplay. The only thing 1 has over 2 in regards to treasure hunting is all 3 radars work at once, but I'll gladly take 2's faults over 1's for the improved controls, individual levels and better music. In either game, they're both not that good, but I can safely say treasure hunting is the worst part of 2. That's not even the case for 1 because it has Big and Amy.
Not only that, but 2 has:
-Multiplayer (and a damn good one at that)
-A much more indepth chao garden with more shit to do.
-Completely ditched Amy and Big's gameplay style
-Condensed the gameplay by also ditched the superfluous overworld hub.
>>337486026
>Sonic has better controls in 1
Disagreed. The spindash and physics in that game was way too exploitable. Meanwhile, 2 added grinding which ruled.
>Knuckles was not as annoying in 1
Not even sure what this means.
>Tails flying stages>>>>>>>>> Mech Shooting
I'll disagree with this purely because tails stages (minus maybe speed highway) were completely recycled
>>337474406
Taxman and Yasuhara have full executive control, with one stipulation: they have to actually improve upon Sonic 3K.
Give it multiple graphical artstyles ala Mario Maker. Add in a level designer kit. Have local/online multiplayer/co-op.
It's really the safest shit, and they're not doing it.
>>337486856
>SA2Fag is this buttblasted
ayy lmaoooo
>>337486747
Holy fuck you autist
I never claimed SA1 was good I just said it was better than SA2 which it fucking is
One only need to see the first level of each game to see why
Pro Tip:One of them starts on San Francisco
>>337467459
They did make Sonic Adventure 3. It was called Sonic 06.
>>337486982
Yasuhara works at Nintendo now
>>337486648
Well, he had to write them from scratch for his ports in the first place, since the Retro Engine compiles from a high-end scripting language that resembles something more akin to Ruby or Visual Basic. It does not support the original low-level Motorola 68k assembly code, and he certainly didn't write it FROM the original 68k code because by his own admission he has a pretty poor understanding of the topic.
Just end it now, you have literally no fucking clue what you're talking about. If it's bait, then good job you got me, I don't have the energy for it anymore.
>>337487162
And you failed to demonstrate that point at all. Sonic 2 has a better Sonic sprite than Sonic 3K. Okay, cool? That doesn't make it the better game.
One of the least important parts of Adventure 1 is worse than one of the least important parts of Adventure 2? Okay, cool? Doesn't matter.
>>337486982
>Add in a level designer kit.
For fucks sake a Sonic Maker would be a thousand times more complicated to make and use than a Mario Maker. It doesn't work like that you fucking tards, you don't just make a "Sonic Maker".
>>337487365
>One of the least important parts of Adventure 1 is worse than one of the least important parts of Adventure 2?
Should say better than, not worse than. My bad.
>>337477206
>>337476861
98% perfect
differences being different collision detection and the bumpers flying you every which way
>>337487454
This
I find it funny that dozens of official, bona fide game companies can't make decent Sonic levels, and yet people want to put that power into the hands of the unwashed masses. Mario Maker has 1 good stage to every 9 shitfests - with Sonic it would be more like 1 good stage to every 99, because making good Sonic level design is a fucking ART that few people understand
>>337487301
Yeah but the Retro Engine is specifically built around 16 bit/32 bit system
Reproducing the classic physics in a Modern Engine would be different
>>337487365
Adventure 2 took Sonic in an even worse direction
Adventure 2 introduced Shadow and Rouge The Bat Tits
Adventure 2 is fucking cancer
>>337487454
but it would be the fucking tits if they did it, don't lie
>>337487690
>and yet people want to put that power into the hands of the unwashed masses
one only needs to play one of the many thousands of fanhacks out there to know how bad people are at designing levels
>>337487570
What does this mean exactly?
I haven't played the Mobile Versions
Is Taxman in the know about this issue?
>>337487806
No it fucking wouldn't, you could recreate the physics in any game engine you liked by taking the principles shown in
>http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Physics_Guide
And applying them to any given engine you were working in, provided you knew that engine adequately. We know how the original physics work. They've been deconstructed to hell and back. Autists all over the internet have been reverse engineering and studying the Genesis games since the late 90s and early 00s. People are working to recreate the original physics in Unreal, and they've already been recreated to a pretty high degree of accuracy in Unity
Just stop. Do you actually know a thing about programming? Have you touched a line of code in your life? You just sound like your spouting shit for the sake of it. Everybody and their mother has recreated the old Sonic physics, SEGA are the only people who haven't managed it yet
>>337487906
Any shit with the story was merely farther along the tracks that SA1 laid down. Also, Sonic Adventure 2 got rid of the stupid over world that was used purely for story exposition to link cutscene to cutscene. (something they brought back with '06)
Overall gameplay of SA/SA2 was decent, but anything to do with story was pretty bad and set the series into a horrible snowballing nightmare from which it has yet to wake all these years later
Every now and then a Sonic title comes out and it's not as shit as the other "modern" titles and people go nuts, then quiet down when they realize it's still really bad
And yet, somehow, the games keep being made and sold. I just don't get it, it's like someone with a Scrooge McDuck amount of money is just playing a joke on the world at large
>>337488229
>provided you knew that engine adequately.
which is easier said than done which was my point from the beginning
>>337487690
That's assuming the tool was even made and works. There's so many problems with the concept of creating a Sonic Maker I don't even know where to begin but I'll fucking try. Mario Maker didn't even bother with Mario slopes because they were worried about complication, and that's the simplest kind of fucking slope there is. Sonic's level design is made out of zillions of bits of slopes and curves and tons of macro and micro assets strung together. On top of this, Mario blocks are generic and can be reskinned, whereas Sonic levels all have unique kinds of slopes and geometry. Also, Mario levels are generic themes, but Sonic levels all have distinct themes that belong to their particular stage, so you'd have to offer generic themes and that would defeat a large part of the point of Sonic levels. This is just part of the problems there'd be with this kind of system, I could go on; ie Mario enemies and gimmicks are generic and reused throughout the game, Sonic enemies and gimmicks are specific to levels, etc.
>>337487906
>oh no, we went in a slightly worse direction!
Shit was already garbage with 1, anon.
They added in multiple gameplay styles to appeal to non-Sonic fans.
They wasted tons of time, effort, and funding on writing an unnecessarily convoluted plot, scripting, voice acting, etc. And the voice acting was irredeemable trash. Gamma was the only aspect of the story they got right. Show, not tell. They were able to tell the story with minimal dialog, similar to how 3K could tell its story with zero dialog.
They wasted time, effort, and funding on going out into the real world to make the game as bland, realistic, and un-Sonic-like as they possibly could.
And then of course there's the disgusting streamlining of the fucking gameplay. Mash B to go fast. Boost pads everywhere. Scripted loop-de-loops. Fuck landing on enemies, just press A twice to kill them.
SA2 DID push it even further in that direction (introducing grind rails, making the Light Dash more automatic, etc), but it at least made the shit show worth it. SA1 didn't have good chao or any multiplayer to make its shit show worth it. And regardless of it pushing farther, it wouldn't have been able to push at all if SA1 didn't lay all of that shitshow foundation for it to push off from.
Don't start on which game had better story or music. Both have top tier music. Both have shitty storylines which, if must be appreciated, have the "so bad its good" merit at best (and they're both equal in that regard).
>>337488490
>goalpost moving
bruh you're a straight up fucking retard, also once you've got a solid understanding of OO, problem-solving and basic scripting principles you can learn the intricacies of a new engine (especially commercial engines like Game Maker, Unreal, Unity etc) in a matter of weeks
I'm out
>>337488837
Call me when a fangame has perfect 3&K physics dipshit because I've yet to see one despite the physics guide being on the wiki for years
Until then shut the fuck up
>>337474965
More or less this, I can admit that a lot of things about Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 didn't quite work, but I absolutely adore the style/aesthetic. In that regard they did the best job possible.
The same basic principle applies for games in general; Deus Ex was mechanically half-broken, but its mixture of atmosphere and highly explorable level design made it GOAT anyway.
>>337467459
Because no one with a brain wants it because they understand what would come with the game if it went under the name of Sonic Adventure. Only nostalgiafags and those with low enough standards to be open to the idea, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, want it to be made and most of them just want it for the Chao Garden.
A Sonic game does not need multiple characters that all play drastically different. Make them unique and have their own defining feature but do not change the core gameplay of the character into some horseshit no one truly enjoys.
The other problem is that creating an engine and levels that would allow for free-form movement with the momentum physics Sonic is known for without being shit would take a long ass time and Sega is not known for giving their teams proper time or management. They said they're taking care of this with that message from the CEO but who knows if that's bullshit or not because they haven't done shit since then.
If Sonic Team had the time, money, and focus they could probably make an excellent game with the core concepts of the previous 2 games but their track record is slippery at the very least and the last 2 games have not only aged like cheese on pavement in the summer, but the second one actually managed to fuck up more things than it fixed from the first game so my viewpoint on a SA3 would be incredibly uneasy and skeptical as would many others'.
>>337489642
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVD1aQH6ZCg
>>337488625
It was garbage but 2 made it way fucking worse with Shadow,Grandpa Robotnik,Rouge,"Muh Maria",FBI,The President and all that fucking bullshit
It was such bullshit it almost made SA1 feel like one of the classic games by comparison
>>337489826
>"Muh Maria
ho wow.
And the president was already in the movie.
>>337469185
this is so frustrating to watch
>>337489642
>Retro Sonic
Made by Taxman
>Sonic Mettrix
Made by Stealth
>Sonic 2 HD
It may never have been released but it did it perfectly
>Pretty much anything made in the Sonic Worlds framework for MMF2
Aside from typical Multimedia Fusion slowdown (mostly from retards not knowing how to optimize their fangames) it emulates it perfectly
Your damage control is just sad to watch at this point
>>337489826
To be fair it didn't really hit stupid territory until Gerald actually showed face and that was at the tail end of the game and vastly overshadowedby the finale.
>people still complain about SA2's story
Did you all watch nothing but Barney and Sesame Street growing up? There was worse in the average Saturday morning kids action cartoon.
>>337489960
The old Retro Sonic engine is close but no cigar. There's some noticeable hiccups in velocity in some situations.
Worlds in MMF2 is close in an illusory way but has lots of quirks and subtly mismatched variables that keep it from being an exact recreation.
Mettrix is perfect.
S2HD will likely be perfect or extremely close.
>>337474176
Honestly, I think Mirror's Edge is pretty good inspiration for a Sonic game. Expand on the hub world for SA1, still keep it in third person, and have Sonic do more wall-running and the like.
Personally I loved the Adventure games for the atmosphere, and it seems that's conducive to a more open-world Sonic game with more "organic" levels integrated into the setting. I'd call itSonic Ex.
>>337489912
>not muh ria
you blew it
>>337482583
There were good arguments for eliminating the hub world, but damn if it wasn't comfy as fuck in parts.
>>337490553
anyway, for me it's
Muh Rouge
>>337482724
I probably just sucked, but yeah I only half-understood how I was supposed to beat it.
>>337482724
God I wanna fuck Sarah, why does she have no r34?
> sonic
> good
>>337490782
I still scarcely understand how I beat it. It was unintuitive, finicky, and just not very much fun. The Shadow fight suffered from being similarly tedious and unintuitive, but at the very least it had no time limit, and some cool music - Time Eater didn't even get that, which is doubly insulting because even the shittest Sonic games of all time still get epic final boss songs. Can anybody even remember the Time Eater music? It was unmemorable as fuck
>>337483384
The problem with the werehog levels is that they were just half-baked and they didn't really try. Correcting that might require contracting Platinum or someone, though, and that runs the risk of contrasting horribly with the rest of the game.
>>337483481
>read the Sonic comics as a kid because I was amazed there were Sonic comics
>even 9 year old me thought the OC's were dumb, wondered why Knuckles was a cyborg
>later see reaction images all over the place from them, learn the comic got goodI still need to read the Mega Man comic until I reach Worlds Collide.
>>337484106
>Sonic 2 enhanced version of 1
>3 is an even greater meal, CD the odd one out
>Adventure games kinda sloppy but tasty anyway
I agree with this
>>337489751
That one's made by Stealth himself
Nobody else can actually recreate those physics
And I've still yet to see a Polygon-based Fangame or an HD Sprite-based Fangame with physics like that
>>337484106
what about sonic heroes?
>>337489912
>And the president was already in the movie.
>Actually comparing the President of an Island in an another planet to the fucking President of the United States
>Forgets that OVA is not canon
>>337467459
why can't you just let go and move on from a dead franchise?
>>337492112
>And I've still yet to see a Polygon-based Fangame or an HD Sprite-based Fangame with physics like that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA5XqON9OcI
here you go family
>>337489960
>Sonic Worlds
>Good
This is where you lost all credibility
Good Day Sir
>>337492232
>OVA
>not canon
>>337490070
It hit stupid territory when the FBI couldn't tell Shadow was a nigger and confused him with Sonic
>>337467459
>That video
Jesus fucking christ.
>>337489826
>It was garbage but 2 made it way fucking worse with Shadow,Grandpa Robotnik,Rouge,"Muh Maria",FBI,The President and all that fucking bullshit
nah son, that shit was Saturday Morning Cartoon/Anime levels of glorious camp.
Just like 1.
And they're both garbage.
>>337474406
>Sonic the hedgehog maker to celebrate the 25th aniversary with no 'Boom' shit
the only thing they could do that would make the fans happy
>>337491249
>Can anybody even remember the Time Eater music?
I can
It felt like some generic cowadoody song
>>337467459
because it was the adventure games where it started going down hill.
>>337484106
1 is better than 2
>>337492320
I've already played that and the physics felt a bit off...like they were 99% close or something
Maybe it's because they doubled the animation frames(thus adding animation lag) or maybe it's just because of the vector graphics they used I don't know...but something felt weird when I played it
Sonic 3D blast
>>337492810
It's the animations for the run that are off, not the physics. The physics are damn near 99.5% accuracy, but the running animation makes it look like Sonic is gliding around with no real friction
>>337469868
It was during development. They only changed it right before release. Look it up and learn some history, dipshit.
>>337492886
That game is about as far removed from proper Sonic gameplay as it gets. Granted, they made up for it with some top-tier level design and lots of nostalgia pandering with the sprites, but the actual gameplay is less 'Sonicesque' than most of SEGA's attempts at 3D Sonic
>>337493074
>they changed it right before release
that would mean that it would have been advertised, up until release, as SA3
>>337493107
At least it's finally getting slopes within the next decade.
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre
They are bad games. Don't fool yourself. Sonic has had like 2 good games in the last decade.
And I don't mean good as in "playable" I mean good as in I'd want to play it again.
>>337492525
>that shit was Saturday Morning Cartoon/Anime levels of glorious camp.
And 1 was nothing like that apart from the bad voice acting
>>337493681
You're right, it was boring in every other way.
If you're going to make me cringe, don't half ass it.
>>337492954
I don't quite know the specific reason why it felt off I just know it did
I thought maybe it's the doubling of the animation frames making things feel less responsive(ala Street Fighter 3 and how slow it was because of it's smooth animation) cuz I remember reading the Sonic 2 HD thread when somebody said they were gonna double Sonic's frames
Could also be that it's using the Sonic 3 physics engine and I'm used to Sonic 2's physics in Sonic 2
But these are just theories
>>337484135
because some random YouTube e-celeb is responsible for everyone's opinion for all time. Fuck off. Most everything after adventure is complete shit. It doesn't take someone else explaining it to make it true.
>>337493780
It was more fun than 2 for what it's worth
>>337494186
I disagree
>>337467459
Sonic 06 exists
>>337493074
No, that was Sonic Unleashed, known in Japan as Sonic World Adventure.
>>337474406
Make more boost games. Find a way to get knuckles and tails to work in the formula.
Enough experimenting, just build off something that works
>>337489826
>>337494186
Oh, I'm sorry, you actually liked all that shit with Tikal and the echidna tribes? Get the fuck out of here. SA1's story was just as trash.
>people in this very thread are arguing over SA1's story versus SA2's
Whoever wins, everybody loses
Both those games have narratives that are about as solid as my bowel movements after a hot curry, why even take the time out of your day to argue over which 2 out of 10 story is better
>>337473121
>they tried writing a 'proper' plot for Sonic
But they didn't most of the plot just general sonic cheesiness
>>337467459
>1 and 2 were some of the best games in the platform genre
Hol up
>>337469058
Are you new
>>337495598
>But they didn't most of the plot just general sonic cheesiness
Sonic didn't have "general sonic cheesiness" until Adventure, you might have forgotten but there's literally zero plot in Sonic 1 and 2, and bare minimum Mario-tier story in CD, 3K and 3D Blast
>>337495786
unless that anon is referring to AoStH, which Adventure did a really poor job of emulating.
>>337495786
Ignoring that both Japan and the US had their own cheesy backstories, cheesy comics/manga and cheesy cartoons/anime. And the Japanese stuff definitely had involvement from Sega, because at least two game characters originated in the manga, and the anime had creative involvement from some of the game staff.
>>337494896
It felt like it was expanding on the Sonic 3's story
>>337496564
Content outside of the game is still outside content, regardless of if SEGA had a hand in it or not. It was side-content, it could be ignored, it had no impact on the games themselves, until Adventure when they started forcing it.
The recent games are crap but I've got to give credit for them at least trying to trim the shit. Only problem is, they've trimmed most of the cutscene crap in Colors through Lost Worlds but the stuff that /IS/ still in is more cringeworthy than ever.
I'm not one of those guys who rants on about story and 'Sonic's friends' ruining Sonic, but seriously, who allowed this shit? The dialog should be kept to a minimum and frankly, Eggman should be the only one who talks, seeing as he's the only human, the only character with a good VA and the only one who actually gets a funny line from time to time
>>337497247
>Content outside of the game is still outside content, regardless of if SEGA had a hand in it or not. It was side-content, it could be ignored, it had no impact on the games themselves, until Adventure when they started forcing it.
This argument has no weight on account of how much Sega pushed Sonic as a multimedia franchise instead of just games.
>>337498046
You take a game at it's individual value. I'm not going to complain about Pokemon Gold just because the Pokemon Johto League anime is shit. Sonic was better before they introduced the "general Sonic cheesiness" to the core games, regardless of whether it already existed in the additional media.
With that being said, the Japanese Sonic OVA pulled that 'cheesiness' off with 100x more grace and humor than Adventure could have dreamed of, so there's that too
>>337498464
Fucking this
>>337497247
>I'm not one of those guys who rants on about story and 'Sonic's friends' ruining Sonic
You're doing exactly that just now tho. Colors was literally just SatAM, and at not point took itself seriously in the slightest.
>>337493107
Agreed. SRB2 has more focus in platforming than speed.
>>337499118
>You're doing exactly that just now tho
yeah, because the writing is shit and forced. I'd be all for story in Sonic if it was unintrusive and actually entertaining. Again, I point to the Sonic OVA as an example of all the main characters done right
>>337468731
>the reddit opinion
>>337499437
They don't anything different in the OVA compared to SatAM or colors tho.
>>337494896
>you actually liked all that shit with Tikal and the echidna tribes?
no
but it wasn't as terrible as sa2...sa2 took it to the next level
>>337495724
>anon has an opinion that doesn't follow the hivemind of /v/
>"are you new"
>>337491068
What's your favourite video game anon?
>>337495786
Sonic 1 and 2 did have a story
Sonic 1
>Eggman dreams to make the world with nothing but Robots/Machines
>Sonic always ruins his plans/destroys his factories
>Eggman is tired of Sonic always foiling his plans
>One day he turns all of the Islands Animals into Robot to get rid of that Hedgehog
>Watch out Sonic looks can be deceiving
Sonic 2
>Eggman is once again pissed off at Sonic from the events of the first game
>He wants revenge
>Builds the Death Egg so he can blow up Westside Island along with Sonic in it
The Japanese Manuals go a bit more in-depth...you should check them in Sonicretro wiki
>>337499869
You have to be kidding
SatAM was Archie Comics bullshit in a nutshell and Robotnik was Serious Business Evil,Tails was a fucking baby and Sonic was lame as shit
>>337499984
Nope, sorry. Nothing in SA2 is as bad as the cutscene where all the chao get trampled in front of the master emerald.
>>337493107
That's probably why it's so good
>>337500735
Oh shit I derped, I got SatAM mixed up with The Adventures of sonic the Hedgehog
>>337500474
I'm well away of the story of South Island, Christmas Island, Westside Island, the ancient Rings, Chaotix, all of that other bullshit
But if it's not in the game, it's not part of the game. It's that simple
>>337501412
aware*
I don't think SA1 or SA2's story was that bad.
I'd definitely call them mediocre, but nothing worth vehemently hating or getting mad about.
E-102's story was actually pretty good, but the Big was extra bad so it still balances out to just mediocre.
>>337499869
>>337501358
Adventure of Sonic The Hedgehog was some Looney Toons shit, it's miles away from the Sonic OVA. They both have Sonic in them, they both have some level of slapstick comedy (albeit much milder in the OVA), and that's where the similarities end
>>337501358
I'm not even sure what you're talking about anymore, but Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog was pretty good.
>SA1 and 2
>bad
Flawed? Yes, but "terrible"? No.
>>337500962
>Any Rouge/Knuckles awkward flirting scenes
>Dumb Knuckles breaking the Master Emerald for no reason
>TERIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
>"Muh-ria"
>>337501412
Are you retarded?
If it's in the Manual that came with the official game it's canon deal with it
That's how a lot of games told their stories back then
