>Game tries to be deep
>it isn't
every indie game
>>337232210
yep
>game tries to send a message
>its fucking stupid
>>337232162
Bioshock Infinite general?
Undertale general?
>>337232162
You can tell it's deep because it's in black and white.
>>337232162
>game inserts a ham-fisted political agenda
>>337232241
The message the game sent has been sent in various other mediums and received as something other than stupid. The problem here is the way it was presented, not the message.
>game tries to be emotionally impactful
>it isn't
>game tries to be fun
>it isn't>every game
>tries to be deep
>it isn't
that happens a lot
>game starts
>black screen
>white text fades in
>"Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah" ~Some dead faggot
>game quotes dead people
>>337232690
It actually tried to be everything other than deep, yet it came out to be deep. Most of the depth came out of budget, time, design and animation constraints.
>>337232775
>>337232783
>Game tries to be deep
>depth is cut
>>337232775
>>337232783
dead mind
https://youtu.be/ZJFN2f93mLU
>>337232241
Fucking terrible game all round.
>>337232690
Only people who thing NGE is trying to be deep are the people who don't understand what the fuck is going on
>Game tries to be simple, mindless fun
>It is
>>337232251
>BioShock Infinite
I'm glad someone agrees with me, that game is shit
>>337232597
The problem is that the game relies on the player taking a certain approach to gameplay, which is to mindlessly slaughter and complete objectives with no regard for the reason why.
The problem is the game starts setting up its moral twist so soon that the player is actively thinking about less-shitty ways of behaving, and then the game shoehorns you into atrocities ANYWAY as a gameplay construct, which breaks it.
It's not even the anti-war message that falls flat, it's that the jab they're taking at player autonomy (and its relation to narrative) doesn't really work, at least not in as well as it does in other games.
Bioshock's Would You Kindly bit managed to do it better than Spec Ops.
>game tries to be movie
>turns out movie doesn't try to be like game
>>337232162
That's just Tale of Tales, a Belgian welfare scam that makes Gone Homo play like a multi path action adventure rpg. Best to ignore them and their "games".
>>337232162
This is an easy game to pirate, just open the youtube video, put it on fullscreen and hold down the forward key
>>337233120
I think I can agree with this, senpai. Those are fair points.
>>337232690
>pretends to be deep.
>it's just trying to make due with a dwindling, nearly gone budget.
>>337233141
>They think World of Warcraft is where Warcraft started.
Fucking modern gamer kids not reading video game history...
>>337233257
>budget for your show runs out
>fans threaten to kill you
>Tries to be deep
>It actually succeedsOnce you get past some hammy acting anyway.
>>337232162
MGS general?
>>337232241
I still have mixed feelings towards it. On one hand, it's a game that depresses you and feel like you are taking a trip to damnationSilent Hill 2 is the first example I can think of, on one hand it's a game with a ham handed message that never really clicked and the gameplay is cookie cutter tps at best.
>>337233406
word? it was a good watch, but nothing to go nuclear over.
>>337233348
World of Warcraft is why the movie is being made, and it was made trough World of Warcraft's retconing of previous games.
>>337233470
Have you seen Jacob's Ladder yet?
>>337232162
>Words that kill
>Literally words that kill you, if you speak them
>game doesn't try to be deep
>it actually is
>>337233528
Yeah.
The Japanese audience was so pissed off about the last two episodes that they wrote death threats on the walls of Gainax studio.
At least I think that's how it went.
>>337233618
Yep, was some pretty good shit and interesting to see how it inspired Team Silent.
>>337232690
Anno was just winging it around the end, he either didn't think about how the story would conclude when it came to that time, or he was up against budget and schedule, well most definitely budget, so he just thought, fuck it, let's just say the show's already finished and lets just fill these last two episodes with psychedelic art and monologuing that has very vague connections to the story.
At least the blunder of the last two episodes practically forced the company to make EoE, which ended up being an amazing movie.
In the end, Evangelion just ended being a show where everything was left up to the audience to interpret.
I'm kinda cool with that though to be honest because there are so many details to pick up and make theory's out of, shit people still come up with new theory's 20 years later.
>game tries to have serious plotline
>everyone is the world is full grown retard
at least im not the writer
>>337233805
You should also watch The Tenant.
>dat unfortunate tagline
>>337233546
It's about Warcraft, though. Orcs vs Humans to be exact.
>>337233120
>hurr durr game forces me to do atrocities
Why did you keep playing it?
>>337233771
Why are japs so fucking aggressive? I keep hearing about people sending authors and studios and whatnot death threats, like what the fuck.
>>337232162
It's ok that this type of game exists, because guess what, you dont have to play it and you dont have to give a fuck about how other people enjoyed it or not.
>>337232162
That's because most people working on videogames are usually uncultured or just know nerd culture, which isn't exactly the best in dealing with "deep" issues
>>337233898
>>dat unfortunate tagline
>>337233903
I know, but trough a WoW lens.
You won't be seeing the Warcraft: Orcs & Humans movie, you'll be seeing the World of Warcraft prequel, as inspired by the novels that retconed the original game.
>>337233898
Thanks anon, never heard of this movie before but it seems interesting.
I get a SH4:The Room vibe from it, should be nice to watch with mygirlfriend
>tells me I am going to feel ashamed when I find out why
>don't feel ashamed at all when I do find out why
Nice one Kojimbo
>Game tries to be deep
>It wuz all just parallel universes!!!
>>337233470
>Hammy acting
Come on, it was made even better by that. Everyone in there is just some random jackoff, who doesn't completely understand the situation they're in. This obviously would make interaction with eachother not only surprising, but also confusing and awkward.
>>337233898
>no one does it to you like roman polański
gold
I thought it was kinda sad. Maybe not "deep" but I have a soft spot for old people dying.
>>337232690
>wrong board/10
>>337234192
>main female character is a plant
>she doesn't look like a plant at all
Bravo Kojima. Bravo.
>>337233618
>>337233805
>Jacob's Ladder
>mfw I had the twist spoiled to me ahead of time so will never be able to enjoy it
>>337234258
Not a dig at the game, I actually think the awkward acting actually works to it's benefit. Yes, I do agree with you. It fits the mentally-disturbed characters pretty well.
And then the HD collections just used "Anime" acting and just completely butchered it.
>>337232162
>Doesn't try way too hard to be deep
>Is a legitimately great story
>>337232162
was that one the one where you guide an old lady to a bench accompanied by some shitty narration and then she dies?
>>337234395
It won't surprise you as much, but it's still a great movie well worth your time. Hell, for the atmosphere alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6krzUvx5Waw
>>337233945
>Why are japs so fucking aggressive?
Who knows? I'm sure the Chinese were wondering the same thing back in the 30s.
>>337234395
There's studies about this
People actually enjoy movies more if they have been spoiled because they can actually pay attention to the awesome little details instead of thinking OH GOD WHAT IS THE TWIST GONNA BE all the time
>>337234659
>>337234818
I guess I'll watch it then.
>>337234818
That's a lie, that "study" is a phony, it's fucking retarded, and no source, no base, purely subjective bullshit statement.
>>337234602
Not quite, in the paid version there is a small random chance that she dies.
>>337235140
Ah. Thanks then, still doesn't seem worth it.
![Gears_of_war_cover_art[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TmVAMgc.jpg "Gears_of_war_cover_art[1].jpg")
Muh just another GEAR of the WAR MACHINE
Muh DIED WIFE
WAR IS HELL
>>337235258
>fucking GoW
>trying to be deep
Is this really what underageb&s these days think?
>>337232608
>game tries to run 30fps on consoles
>it doesnt
Top kek senpai
>>337234818
That sounds pretty silly.
More fun to look out for details and speculate as to how the movie would turn outassuming you watch with other people.
>>337232162
I once attended a talk by tale of tales at some indie developer event.
They were the most pretentious retarded faggots I ever heard talking about vidya.
>hurrdurr we want to take the "game" out of games and we call it notgames.
>>337235596
>watching movies that are anything more than dumb popcorn flicks with other people
Why would you ruin your experience like that?
>>337235596
>talking during a movie
Found the woman.
>>337235535
They're not underageb&s anymore.
Just "adult" morons.
>>337232162
Alright /v/, which games succeeded in being deep?
>>337232162
>>337233898
man that movie was dull
worth seeing for polanski in drag I guess
repulsion>
>>337235726
>>337235730
Nothing wrong with getting comfy to enjoy a good movie with friends/family/lover
Certain horror movies though are still best watched alone.
>>337234818
I demand a citation of a rigorous, non-subjective, non-biased study with a large sample size.
And when I say rigorous, I mean I want them hooked up to a goddamn MRI machine while they watch the movie. Not "muh rate on a scale of 1-10" bullshit.
>>337235750
The Stanley Parable wasn't particularly deep, just refreshingly saucy and sardonic about the limits of gameplay mechanics and the limitations of narrative in video games.
>>337235535
Did you even play the game, it desperately tries to push the WAR IS HELL and that you are just ANOTHER GEAR OF THE WAR MACHINE narrative so hard. They have scenes where they honestly try and convince you that neither side is the bad guy and that WAR IS THE REAL EVIL, and in the next scene have the locust queen be literally Hitler.
The fact that you DONT think it was trying to be DEEP is a testament to how hilariously flat it's every attempt fell.
>>337233943
>Why did you keep trying to get entertainment out of this expensive product you bought
>Game tries to be scary
>It's sexy
>>337236150
>it's
>>337232162
>game
>>337236267
>committing atrocities
>entertainment
Nice
>>337236293
Fear 2 and 3 were hilariously fucking bad.
Holy shit how did they fuck up so badly.
>>337235750
I'm not b8ing. I actually enjoyed it's message about how modern society is dumb enought to see criminals as people worth admiring. There are actually few moments where they point it out.
>>337236452
Fear 3 was done by a different dev.
No idea for Fear 2 thoughHell, I liked it.. I can only assume a bunch of the original monolith team left after fear 1 or Warner Bros assuming creative control of their product.
>>337235750
Does not compare to the book unfortunately.
>>337233015
Oui Monsieur
>>337236416
>People never play the Sims or Sim City just to fuck around with the avatars' life and maybe find fun new ways to kill them
>>337236903
Good job, you understood the point Spec Ops was making
>>337236698
I liked fear 2, but if you play them back to back the obvious hilariously steep drop in quality is jarring.
The enemies go from feeling real and smart, to being actual bullet sponges that just stand still and fire.
The scary unknown becomes the way too well known.
The impact of the powers loses all narrative power because of how completely obvious and predictable the uses will be.
Fear one already had struggled greatly with how the sections were so clearly divided between "spooky" areas and "combat" areas, but in fear 2 there is a brick wall between the horror and gunfight zones ten miles thick. They might as well drop a skeleton on the screen that flashes SPOOKY TIME!!!!! whenever you reach one of the none fighting areas, because it'll be about as subtle.
>>337232775
Modern Warfare 2?
>>337236964
>anon tries to be deep
>he isn't
>Game starts with a quote
>Of an in-game character
>>337232891
Well, what the fuck is going on?
>Game tries to have a "message"
>>337237120
Still balls deep in your mum m8
>>337237067
Oh definitely.
Hell, when people think the worst expansion for fear 1 is probably better then fear 2 then you know they fucked up.
>>337236964
...that the average human being is able to tell the difference between real life and videogames?
>>337232241
>feel bad for doing these bad things!!!
>try to take the hard road and not kill civilians
>lol no infinite respawn you have to be bad guy even though story makes it look like you made a choice
>>337233148
I learned that after playing The Path
I literally felt robbed when I finished the game
>>337237346
Why the fuck are you talking about real life?
The point is to make you question why virtual murder makes your dick so hard
>>337237367
But bruuuh... you had the choice... to not play the game... you just spent 50 dollars in... so deep... bruh
>>337237367
IT'S LIKE THAT BY DESIGN U JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!
>>337233187
But what if I want to walk back?
>>337237479
Because it's not real, because usually said atrocities are backed up by entertaining mechanics or writing
Why would I feel particularly sad abbot what happened in Spec Ops?
>Oh noez, the game forced me to burn families alive without ever telling me that's what I was doing, with no chance to find another way either other than throwing away this disc I spent 60€ dollars on
>>337237367
>feel bad for doing these bad things!!!I always felt that the decision to use the white phosphorus would have come across better had there been an option earlier to leave and report back. At least then it could have been played off as everything happening after you decide to continue despite your orders being unforeseen consequences of misplaced determination.
>>337232162
>game doesn't try to be deep
>fans make it deeper
>>337234105
Movie exactly follows Warcraft Orcs and Humans storyline and lore, not WoW's
>>337237928
This
Can also apply to Zelda lorefags too
>>337236717
Be be fair, the Metro 2033 book had a shitload of deep Philosophical stuff on religion, war, money, life, culture, and everything else.
there is almost no singular way a videogame can ever be able to explore all of those themes like the Metro book did.
Especially the really deep shit like a bullet could save a life, it is also money, so he traded 3 lives for some shitty soup.
Games usually have to stick to one theme and branch off of that.
The Witcher 3 has the main theme of "blood is thicker than water"...and it branches from that with domestic violence and other things.
Bioshock has the theme of "All forms of extremism is bad" and in the first game it's Right-wing libertarian atheist extremists, in Infinite it's right-wing authoritarian religious extremists.
>>337234105
this
>>337233903 have you seen the trailers? the story is a shitty "we were manipulated now we unite against the bad guys" nothing like orcs vs humans
>>337233653
name 23 games that do this
>>337237850
>Why would I feel particularly sad abbot what happened in Spec Ops?
Not that other anon, but who said anything about feeling sad? There's a difference between trying to be though-provoking and trying to be emotional. like >>337237479, The point is to make you question why virtual murder makes your dick so hard. The flagrant and purposeful bombing of enemy combatants is naturally a part of war, but so is the accidental bombing of civilian and other non-combatants. Lots of modern warfare games glass over the whole nature of "the fog of war" and the notion that the non-fighting populous can be assumed to be in the general vicinity of war-zones, and thus affected and accidentally targeted. Specops was heavy handed and dropped the ball at several points, but the questioning of why someone would want to play out a scenario in which they could potentially wipe-out hundreds of innocent lives is solid.
>>337238561
Name 5 passtimes, 4 games, 7 ludo, and 9 interactive experieces that do this
>>337237928
It doesn't try, but make it really easy for fans.
>>337237850
The game fails completely because the main character is not a self-insert, he's a misguided psychopath. I played to watch the story unfold and see his character develop, and thought there would be choices which would influence it, the moral path being an organic hard mode. essentially shaming the player for being a fucking casual with a feelbad story.
>>337233015
This game's message really made me think a lot about robotics and the morals behind it, not only the things the genre usually exposes, butthe morals behind humans being born from androids, treating them as a different race although biologically those childs are completely human, they just were born differently, with superior genes. Should we consider them part of the android race? would giving them human rights also extend to these androids? wouldn't that give arguments to give rights to robots as well, even though they will always be treated as slaves, built to serve?
And the game was really fun at that.
>>337238731
I actually slightly disagree with that.
>why someone would want to play out a scenario in which they could potentially wipe-out hundreds of innocent lives
This makes it sound like you wipe out innocent lives in your regular rooty tooty point & shooty games, which is just nuts. The civilian populace isn't modeled in CoD Next: Whatever the Newest One is
You're right about the game questioning the whole glorification of violence and war but it does not try to say that your actions in video games hurt innocents
>>337238561
This should unironically count then >>337239128
>>337238731
Because if I'm not emotionally (or we could even say intellectually/morally) invested then I have no reason to question my actions as a player (and mind that, as a player, not as a character, obviously I understand why Walker would be devastated)
This isn't a Metal Gear where during the whole game I had the chance to go non-lethal, the game merely forced me to press a button with the promise that good things (the death of terrorists) would happen, there's near to no deliberacy to be questioned on my part
I don't think Spec-Ops is scything critique on video games or anything, but I like how the game berates you for completing the objectives instead of sucking your dick. Just a bit of variety.
>>337239128
I liked that in the game
It brings up the whole issue so that you can think about it yourself instead of trying to force its views down your throat
The scenes with the robot attacking the evil CEO ("WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO ME?") and the one in the Japanese ghetto where thugs beat a robot to death who only realizes in the very end that he was a robot fucked me up
>>337239526
>and the one in the Japanese ghetto where thugs beat a robot to death who only realizes in the very end that he was a robot fucked me up
stolen from terminator
This whole concept is just shit from brave new world, gattaca etc. Even shit like gundam seed goes over this common trope. the theme is generic, it must just be the first time you were exposed to it.
>>337239407
It doesn't count because Binary Domain is not trying to be simple fun, it's a self righteous morality tale that starts to become very obnoxious the further into the game you get despite the fact it's treading the same ground that sci-fi has already tread a billion times over for decades now.
>>337237492
That is a choice. You can continue, living with the fact you burn a lot of people to death or just stop playing.
Just because it's not a choice you like, doesn't mean it's bad.
>>337232829
Yeah no
>>337239291
>This makes it sound like you wipe out innocent lives in your regular rooty tooty point & shooty games, which is just nuts.
Sorry, I didnt mean to imply that. I just meant that in an actual warzone, there's generally civilians or non combatants around, at one could reasonably assume that in a war portrayed in a videogame, they would still be there, just not shone.
>You're right about the game questioning the whole glorification of violence and war but it does not try to say that your actions in video games hurt innocents.
No, i know that. Like I said, its the idea that, in war, actual war, people that arent fighting get hurt, often times accidentally. If i remember right, all you saw and knew was they the Damned 33rd were blocking your way, and not that they were helping civilians, so the decision to bomb them can be seen (from both Walker's and our's) as a just action; You're just attacking enemy combatants. With that being said, the aftermath, the realization that you also inadvertently targeted and killed civilian is a very real possibility of a warzone, and I the take away for me was, why would anyone find the possibility of do such a thing, purposfully or not, fun? Why would they want to seek this out?
Naturally, I would think, no one buying an FPS buys one with the thought to bomb the shit out of civilians, but It does i think show that there are facets to wars that arent shown for the sake of focusing on either side of a conventional conflict, and people tend to forget that.
>>337239810
Sorry for liking it anon
I'll go post a bad review on the steam page
>>337236580
I wonder if that message was intentional.
>>337232690
Butthurt cause that anime was deeper than anything western in the last 40 years.
>>337232608
Press F to pay respects.
>>337240067
>stop playing :^) :^) :^)
The player has no moral culpability. It all falls apart because it goes by the assumption that gaymers only play video games to self-insert as some male power hero fantasy. And then they don't even make a character that's a blank slate to insert into.
I didn't burn anyone to death, I wasn't given a choice to or not, only to watch the story unfold. It's like trying to shame someone for watching a slasher flick because if they walk about of the theater those imaginary people don't get killed.
>>337241118
That's a very good point
Why do you like watching movies whose entire point is people getting murdered, anon?
>>337239432
Because if I'm not emotionally (or we could even say intellectually/morally) invested then I have no reason to question my actions as a player (and mind that, as a player, not as a character, obviously I understand why Walker would be devastated)
One could argue that the emotional investment was that innocents were killed as a result of actions the player is complicit with. The same could be said of intellectual and moral investment. That a terrible atrocity befell those that were caught in the middle. It was poorly handled, but the reasoning is understandable, if weak.
>the game merely forced me to press a button with the promise that good things (the death of terrorists) would happen,
I disagree with the notion that the game forced you to do anything, an that if promised anything. Sure it explicitly gave you the option to continue, but it was always your choice to take that option, whether you like the reasoning behind it or not.
>>337240226
Good man.
While true that it does rely on the self-insert. The movie comparison doesn't work since you don't have control over any aspect what so ever.
In a video game, you have to make the story move forward by your own actions. Weather they give you choice in game or not.
>>337241647
Was trying to reply to this>>337241118
So why is killing people so fun?
>>337241118
>...It all falls apart because it goes by the assumption that gaymers only play video games to self-insert as some male power hero fantasy.
The assumption isnt that players self-insert as the main character, the point is that gamers willfully and intentionally seek to engage in and experience a terrible experience in which a myraid of horrific things can happen to everyone involved.
>I didn't burn anyone to death,
No one is saying you did, but you did seek out a game in which such a thing was not only possible, but also probable. Why would you do that?
>I wasn't given a choice to or not,
Of course you weren't. You have no choice. You had to keep going. Just like Walker.
>>337232162
>>GAME tries to be deep
>>it does it mostly through text and voiceovers, rather than gameplay
Why these people don't just make a movie or write a book? There is more depth in a puzzle game than all your indie shit combined
>>337232162
New Vegas in a nutshell
>>337241118
Stop getting so defensive.
Spec Ops wasn't haranguing you personally for committing war crimes, it was asking you to play the role of a man with a hero complex and to just think about what a hero complex means in the real world.
The game does not exist in a vacuum, it was more making a comment on videogames in general than just screaming "YOU'RE EVIL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T STOP PLAYING THIS GAME!"
>>337241961
>a comment on videogames in general
What comment? "The things you do in video games are generally ill-advised in reality"?
>>337235750
The Stanley Parable wasn't deep, just some meta-narrative jokes here and there just for the sake of it. It was an alright game but there was no real message behind it.
The Beginner's Guide on the other hand is a lot deeper, with its "death of the author" theme made precisely in response to people looking for deeper meanings in Parable, that weren't really there to begin with.
>>337241842
New Vegas never tried to be deep.
>>337240323
Pretty sure it is. Volition are pretty smart when they want to be. Definitely a lot deeper than any GTA with all of that over the top american parody that goes nowhere with it.
MGS2 and Deus Ex are also games that succeded at being deep without trying to hard.
But as always, depth is mostly subjective, it won't be there if you're not willing to find it.
>>337232241
Hotline Miami did it better
>>337242086
Why do you guys always bring reality into it? The game isn't teaching you not to murder in real life, that's stupid
>>337242203
>Why do you guys always bring reality into it?
Actually, the post I was replying to did.
>>337236580
I liked that too
>>337242203
Because the creators take a shit on you for continuing to play their game, you idiot.
They said that they talk shit in game, because you didn't chose to stop playing the game. That being the only good and valid choice to NOT commit those horrible things
>>337241306
Because they can have themes and messages that go beyond the premise itself. Like spec ops tries and fails to do. That and I can separate fiction from reality. You can appreciate the suspense, directing, the twists and turns, cinematography, creativity, become invested in the story, and characters etc etc. Theoretical tragedies let you experience and reflect on situations that might not even be possible in reality without anyone actually being harmed.
>>337242285
>>337242454
I admit I was too vague
Why do you guys always bring the distinction between reality and vidya into it*
This is like the third time someone in the thread asked "so the game is telling me that murdering is bad in real life?"
>>337241765
>Why would you do that?
Because humans of the modern age in general lack an outlet for their more basic instincts, such as maintaining territory and belonging to a social group (with the implication of combating other, opposed social groups).
Video games provide that outlet. As did films, music, and sports before them. This is psychology 101.
>>337242475
>directing, the twists and turns, cinematography, creativity, become invested in the story, and characters
>in a fucking slasher flick
top kek
>let you experience and reflect on situations that might not even be possible in reality
>what would I do if a supernatural killer was after me?
topper kek
>>337240171
I may not be understanding completely what you mean at the
> why would anyone find the possibility of do such a thing, purposfully or not, fun? Why would they want to seek this out?
But the reason to go onif that's what you meanis to find justification for the "sacrifices" you made.
>>337242547
>Why do you guys always bring the distinction between reality and vidya into it*
Because the game breaks the fourth wall on several occasions, upon which most players expect it to take responsibility and deliver a related point, like many other 4th-wall-breaking games do (e.g. MGS2).
Spec Ops doesn't. This is why so many people find it irritating. And while you could argue that, "The things you are doing in this game are bad!" IS the delivered point, it's a silly point in and of itself. Completely unworthy of the praise the game regularly receives.
>>337232162
Bioshock games
>game doesn't try to be deep
>it is
>>337242791
The game isn't trying to somehow make a point that the things Walker does in the game are bad (it doesn't need to prove that because it's pretty self-evident)
When it breaks the fourth wall it asks you, the player, why you continue
It isn't actually trying to make you feel bad for continuing to play (after all, the devs want you to play the rest of the game)
It just wants you to ask yourself why you find that shit fun, that's all
>>337241647
And for a movie, I have to go to the theater, or push play. I also have to willingly sit down and watch it those are my actions. video games making you move your thumbs to experience it is just another layer, I can pause a movie and not watch just like I can pause a game.
>>337232162
literally tlou
>Game tries to be bad
>It isn't
>>337243104
>It just wants you to ask yourself why you find that shit fun, that's all
See: >>337242550
It's as much a question as I'm a fucking tumblrina. Fictional violence appeals to basic human instincts and subconscious needs. It's really, honestly no more complicated than that.
>>337241765
Fuck off shill.
>"game" tries to be a game
>it isn't
Modern gaming in a nutshell
>game doesn't try to be scary
>it is
>>337243319
If that's the answer you've found for yourself, that's fine
It's just a fucking shooting game that includes a very basic philosophic question, it's not trying to be a treatise on the human condition
>>337243228
I don't think tlou was trying to be deep at all. It was more about character interaction.
>>337237264
This is the most reddit post of the thread
>>337243515
Forgot to add: the main problem with the game is faggots gushing about how deep it is
>Game tries to run above 20 FPS
>It dosen't
>>337243450
I bet you're like 19 years old.
>>337243515
>It's just a fucking shooting game that includes a very basic philosophic question
Whereas both its fans and marketing lauded it as something greater than that. Which is the crux of the fucking problem. And the point of this thread, in fact.
![300px-Wheatley[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/rHtAMcd.png "300px-Wheatley[1].png")
>game tries to be funny
>it isn't
>>337237186
anime
>>337242741
>I may not be understanding completely what you mean at the
I mean is this. Experiencing war is fucking terrible. People that you train with , become friends with, and fight with are dying, you thousands of miles away from home, families are being torn apart without being know, the survivors are wracked with guilt and trauma, and a whole lot of other unpleaseness, and the exact same is being done the the enemy. And not only that, but depending on the type of conflict, there's also the people in the middle, that may not be for either side, but are getting killed just the same, but without the ability do save themselves or do something about it. War is a terrible, ugly business, and why would someone seek a form of entertainment to simulate it?
There's a picture i cant find at the moment that Ive seen on /k/ that explains it better. A WWI vetern writes about how people that wish to experience war shouldnt do so from the comfort of their home and from books, but from the cold and muck that it actually occurs in, and how they should appreciate the former and not the latter.
>>337243701
>listening to fans and marketspeak
There's your problem.
>>337242086
Partly, it's a comment on the idea of a "hero".
The writers felt that games pander too much to the player, they wanted to create a world that doesn't work how the player expects, doesn't reward them for their "accomplishments", where every decision is a poor one, etc., etc.
I do find it funny that people's complaints about the game seem to be exactly same complaints the protagonist of the game has, i.e. "Why is everything not going how I want it to? Why am I not the hero?" I think the writers hit the nail on the head.
I not sure I agree with their concerns that people take their video game hero complexes into real life, though.
>>337234602
>someone used my pic and filename from a filename thread
Is this the highest honor a person can achieve?
>>337242550
explain this image then. To imply that artistic endeavors are only for catharsis is like saying that we only eat food for nourishment, or have sex for procreation. People also make games to explore the limits of the medium, or to challenge the prevalent conventions.
It will never cease to amaze me how the most technologically advanced media ever made is so hopelessly trapped in fucking Victorian mentality. It's a shame that for all the billions of dollars the industry makes, not a single person working in it can afford to have some TASTE
>game is good but is ruined by the ending/twist
>>337244130
forgot to attach image
>>337232690
>anno we're out of money what do we do
>give me all your concept art and bring me my copy of being and nothingness
>>337243931
>Why am I not the hero?
First you separate the protagonist and the player, then you merge them back together with this point. Let's clear something up here. Nobody with half a brain who played Spec Ops thought Walker was their self-insert. He's a voiced character, with a pre-established personality, backstory, and story arc. He's NOT the player.
Now that we've got this out of the way, the complaint you attempted to synonymise with Walker's personal one should rather be worded as such: "Why is the game (through its mechanics and design) implying that I, the player, may influence its course (as in many other, better games), where the truth is it's entirely on a rail from start to finish?" THIS is the players' complaint. Not your alleged "wanting to be a hero."
Games are systems, and when a system implies working in one way, but ends up doing exactly the opposite, that's a badly designed system.
>>337244237
yep, looks like the equivalent of a walking simulator
what's your point about taste again?
>>337242550
>Video games provide that outlet. As did films, music, and sports before them. This is psychology 101.
Actually, psychology 101 says "outlets" are bullshit.
They don't provide a release, they reinforce the behavior with the possibility of escalation.
>>337244130
>Spec Ops attempts to challenge the prevalent conditions...
>... by being a 100% by-the-numbers, generic third person shooter in drab, military colours
OK then?
>>337234395
Honestly you could see the spoiler coming. It's not what makes the movie good, it's the otherworldly visuals and writing that make it worth watching.
>>337244513
We're talking about legitimate psychology, not its new-age feminist incarnations.
>>337242550
Have you done first year psychology?
>>337244237
Looks like shit.
>>337243319
People also play video games for you know, the gameplay, and might want to experience a story regardless of there being a chance of bad things happening, as if they didn't it would be pretty bland. Otherwise if it was just to satisfy some primal need they don't have an outlet for any game regardless of quality, so long as it had violence would fulfill that purpose, and there would be no incentive to buy another violent game.
>>337242550
>This is psychology 101.
>>337244797
>equating gameplay with experiencing the story
No.
>>337242791
The game only breaks the fourth wall when the loading screens already do, and does so to deliver hilarious dark zingers that went completely over your fucking head.
The game doesn't moralize, unlike your pansy bitch ass or everyone else who didn't get it. It's a massacre simulator where you get to kill everyone, literally everyone, and that's all. It's the best.
>>337237928
but dark souls doesn't try to be deep?
it's all of those lore autists
>>337244797
People play games for a myriad of reasons. The question asked, however, was why they enjoy a violent turn of events in games, to which the post you replied to provided a simple answer. Try to keep up.
>>337243104
It's not trying to make you "ask yourself" jack shit. The game KNOWS it is awesome, KNOWS it is metal, and KNOWS you want to see it through. It's just taking a dig at the eager audience.
I don't understand why so many bitches played Spec Ops.
>>337244986
good job making a retarded reply to a 1.5 hours old post
I suggest reading the post again
>>337244318
>First you separate the protagonist and the player, then you merge them back together with this point.
I didn't merge them back together, merely observed that both the players and the character of Walker have the same complaints about the game.
>"Why is the game (through its mechanics and design) implying that I, the player, may influence its course (as in many other, better games), where the truth is it's entirely on a rail from start to finish?" THIS is the players' complaint. Not your alleged "wanting to be a hero."
And you missed the point. Games are crafted to pander to the player, one option may not be appealing to you but that does not mean it's not appealing to anyone. Very, very few games allow the player to make the "wrong" choice, though they may let you inadvertently chose something you didn't want to chose. Spec Ops never lets the player make the "right" choice, it's just not an option.
>Games are systems, and when a system implies working in one way, but ends up doing exactly the opposite, that's a badly designed system.
It's not a bad design when it's doing exactly what it was designed to do. You were deliberately fooled by the game, that's not a fault in the game but it's also not a fault in you so stop being so fucking defensive.
>>337233120
Spec Ops isn't an anti-war game, fucking retard. Holy shit.
>>337244720
Video games don't act as an outlet to relieve stress of get anything out of your system. This has been studied. They also don't make people violent though the violence itself, unless they get frustrated by getting stuck, losing online etc.
>>337237928
This is story done right in video games.
The story is never in the way of the gameplay, but it is there if you want it.
When it comes to Gone Home, its not a game. It just isnt. It's interactive story telling using the medium of video games.
If it good or not, thats subjective, but no one can with a straight face try to argue that it is a game.
>>337245167
Correction: outside of the "pick your ending" finale, Spec Ops never allows you to make A (capital A) choice. It does, however, attempt to fool you, the player (not the character, nor the sympathiser to the character), into thinking it does the opposite. I remind you that branching storylines have been a major selling point of games for the longest time now, and Spec Ops definitely attempts to play on this appeal by offering you many apparent choices throughout the experience.
Of course, once you play it again and go for the "other" path, it turns out none of them matter at all, there is no branching storyline, and the game is essentially half of what you expected. This is what the complaints are about. False advertising, after a fashion.
I also remind you that Spec Ops was originally meant to have a branching storyline, before the studio got hit by deadlines and budget cuts.
>>337244237
L-loss?
>>337244986
>Every single Kojima game ever
>>337244720
There have been studies done that heavily suggest allowing one to "release" their anger in the form of aggressive exercise like hitting a punching bag doesn't make them less angry. It actually had the opposite effect.
>leave the thread to do some buisness
>return
>it's still up
>Blame Game: The Rine fanbois in full damage control mode
Hey, at least MC doesn't say something awfully cliche, like "Man is the most dangerous animal".
>>337245558
Dark Souls does not have a story. It has a premise, a conclusion, and tons of lore which there is no reason to care about because it is irrelevant to my involvement and the general gameplay.
A proper story generally has a beginning, middle, and an end, and involves actual characters.
>>337245630
There are tons of "choices" throughout the game, and they're all framed as whether or not (and what at) to pull the trigger. This in itself is brilliant and doesn't get nearly enough recognition compared to the hamfisted button-prompt pause-time dichotomies of BioWare bullshit.
Not having a choice is also thematically crucial to the game, because everyone will die anyway. It's fucked before you got there, and you can only make it worse, but the pacing is partly up to you.
The only reason people want "more choice" is because they are moralizing twats who cannot handle the game as it is and somehow feel "guilty" playing it instead of giddy and exhilarated.
>>337245761
I read somewhere that venting your anger (like just screaming it out once a day) is actually addictive and makes you more easily angered
>>337245825
>A proper story generally has a beginning, middle, and an end, and involves actual characters.
which dark souls has, in addition to the lore.
>>337245630
The writers very specifically said they wanted a world where the choices did not matter because the world did not care what the player wanted, the world of Spec Ops does not pander to the player. Even if there was an option for the player to take path B instead of A it was always going to be bad.
And I don't know why you are saying they pretended there is branching story for marketing reasons, a branching story was never part of the marketing and they never indicated it was there.
You can hate the game if you want but get off your high horse and stop pretending your opinion is some sort of objective truth. Honestly, it's no wonder you hate the game, you seem to be the exact type of "gamer" they had in mind when they thought games pander too much.
>>337246242
The avatar is not a character and none of what he does has any motivational relation to all the backstory that I don't care about, as the game doesn't care whether I care nor give me a reason to.
An example of a game that integrates "lore" well with player agency is The Talos Principle, which is also a much more interesting and intelligent game than memorizing sketchy timing windows for rolling and R1.
>lame christian allusions slapped on top of pretentious yet fairly generic sci-fi story with shitton of anime cliches: the game
>>337246127
It's a sad day when you resort to comparing a game you like to BioWare shit in order to make it look good.
But to address your point,
>The only reason people want "more choice" is because they are moralizing twats
The reasons people want "more choice" is because: 1) it's a major theme of the story that there is, in fact, always a choice (albeit the protagonist is opposed to the idea), 2) the game itself on the meta level (as in, outside of the story) implies with its systems just such a presence of choices, yet fails to deliver on any of those it presents to the player.
>>337246324
FYI, the "advertising" in "false advertising" wasn't meant to be taken literally. Hence the "after a fashion" there just next to it. It was meant to refer to the game's design and communication with the player, not literal advertising by marketing teams. I apologise if I made it sound confusing.
>>337246490
>comparing a game you like to BioWare shit
Name any game with narrative "choices" that doesn't resort to explicit button-prompts for them.
>1) it's a major theme of the story that there is, in fact, always a choice
That's complete bullshit. It portrays everything as an inevitable event. The only choice is who to blame it on and how to handle it internally.
>>337243987
yes thanks for the the pic
>>337246324
>The writers very specifically said
The writers for this game said a lot of very interesting things, some of which completely contradict others.
>>337246736
Only Mass Effect games have interrupts, and those aren't the only choices they have
>>337246324
>>337246954
Also this.
>>337242095
The Beginner's Guide was almost really cool except that the narrator gives the most amateur high school drama club performance. The ending 'breakdown' of the narrator is total cringe and had me laughing when otherwise it would have been really intriguing. It's like the voice actor/developer pulls out a prop skull and starts soliloquiying to it with the most ineffective self-importance, it's just not convincing.
>>337246490
>1) it's a major theme of the story that there is, in fact, always a choice
I mean, I really have no idea how you could fuck up this badly in your reading of the game. It never once suggests anything could've gone differently. It repeatedly affirms that your choices don't matter (it even gives you sarcastically-named achievements for either one, such as "Show Mercy" or "Save a Bullet" for whether to finish off a man you inadvertently crushed beneath a flaming oil rig), and the protagonist even flat-out fucking says "SOMETIMES YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE" after White Phosphorus, which itself is the epitome of inevitability.
>>337246954
That helicopter shit reminds me, there's an article that talks about how shittily vidya stories are cobbled together with the specific example of spec ops
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2172-no-trans-characters-6-realities-writing-video-games.html
yes it's cracked and it has a SJW clickbait title but I couldn't give less of a fuck
>>337246212
Of course. You're not learning how to properly manage your reaction to the feeling of anger when you do that. You're just reinforcing the behavior.
>>337247138
I feel you empathised too hard with Walker. His teammates remind him on several occasions that there is, in fact, a choice. Walker himself is the only one opposed to the idea.
>SOMETIMES YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE
Yep, because the only alternative is fighting infinitely respawning waves of snipers. How does that fit into the narrative?
>>337247138
>the choice is to stop playing and walk away :^)
>>337247257
>Cracked
fuck off with that shit
SUPER
HOT
SUPER
HOT
SUPER
HOT
>Literally rubs the plot in your face
>"YOU ARE NOT IN CONTROL BEEP BOOP"
Nothing was subtle about it.
itt: plebs who don't understand that art doesn't have to be aesthetically pleasing to be thought-provoking and not realizing that coming away from an experience stubbornly refusing to believe that it had any significance says more about them than the art piece.
>>337247520
nope, read it m8
it shows that the story's just made up as they go along from unrelated shit
>hurr durr but I'll give them an adblocked view
>>337239515
The problem is that once you realize that, you also become aware that the game gives you no other choice. It is completely linear and you can't prevent any of the tragedies the game gives you shit for. So you continue playing and the game constantly insults you for doing the only thing it allows you to do. The only other choice is to quit and never finish it.
>>337247409
I also have no idea how idiots got that out of the game. At one pivotal point the voice in Walker's head screams "STOP, FUCKING STOP" and so does the unusually textless loading screen at that point, at the precipice of his descent into insanity, and of course you know, that's how you know, you sure as hell ain't gonna stop. That's where the game really shifts into greatness.
People always compare it thoughtlessly to Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now, but a much more apt parallel is Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HPaUPU9xdgM
THESE PEOPLE WILL ALL DIE
>>337236293
>>It's sexy
That was the whole point of that look though Anon.
She wants your dick
>>337247646
Video games are not art tho.
>>337247841
>you can't prevent any of the tragedies the game gives you shit for. So you continue playing and the game constantly insults you for doing
You are projecting your own effeminate bitch self onto the game. The game enables you to be a mass murderer, far more intelligently and intimately than any game ever has, far beyond the shallow trash of Postal and Hatred, and it does not guilt you for it. You are projecting your own guilt onto the game because you are a bitch who had no business playing a high-impact hyperviolence killing adventure. Stop talking about it.
>>337247646
> coming away from an experience stubbornly refusing to believe that it had any significance says more about them than the art piece.
If they deny it has any merit, they are arguing it's not art in the first place. They are not being stubborn, they just aren't convinced there is anything there.
>>337247646
>implying people should interrupt their genuine reaction to a piece to congratulate the art object for making them think
>genuine reaction to a piece is ignorant if it doesn't celebrate the work for causing that reaction
>>337248224
>Stop talking about it.
I wish we all would.
>>337248147
>You'll never be haunted by a qt ghost girl that wants to bear your childrenMore horrifying then it sounds to be honest no matter what manga or doujins tell you
>>337248224
I hope this is satire.
>Game claims it's the missing link
>Only thing missing is half the game
>game tries to get a reaction out of you every moment
>it's so saturated and poorly written it fails most of time
>>337248502
Far less satirical than retards somehow getting the impression the game is "anti-war" because it went and gone did it too damn hard.
>>337248224
>The game enables you to be a mass murderer, far more intelligently and intimately than any game ever has
Hotline Miami does it better. And spec ops has shit gameplay,
>>337234395
>mfw i tripped on shrooms before seeing the movie
>mfw i knew the twist from the very beginning because of what shrooms taught me
>watching it with that in mind made me think the movie was trying to tell me that I am the one in Jacob's position.
