why are you so dead, MMO genre?last thread was great
I played silkroad online for like 3 years
it's the worst MMO I ever played but I only played wow, silkroad, everquest, dark age of camelot or some shit and guild wars nightfall and factions
but holy shit silkroad was really bad.
Because even the good ones have issues. Like Tree of Savior. And all the ones that used to be good were killed by their companies. Like MapleStory and WoW and the like.
been playing the secret world. bretty gud. wish there were more people.
>>337042735
microtransactions killed mmos. publishers believe mmos are microtransaction machines, not living communities
>>337042735
It evolved into the sandbox genre w/ emergent gameplay.
Players are tired of tasklist themeparks.
>>337042735
Everyone is trying to do the same thing at the same time
>>337043425
>Everyone is tired of theme park MMOs
>All of the modern sandbox MMOs on the market are shit
>Instance lobby MMOs only work in Asia (DFO, PSO2, etc)
they thrive on people, and people are pretty cancerous now
its not rocket science
>Play MMO
>Expect to get into a party and go into awesome adventures togheter
>Finding teammates takes longer than doing the quest itself because most people play solo for god knows what reason
>Also the teammates don't try to interact at all, I can't tell a difference between an AI and an actual player since they are just as cold as them
I dunno man. I might just as well play a single player rpg at this point.
>add 50% exp boost for leveling with another player
>suddenly groups start forming again
50% might be too much but you need to give players a reason to group nowadays
>>337042735
Westerners expect every MMO to be casual WoW shit and nobody brings good MMOs to the states anymore unless it's casual WoW shit.
>>337044652
>make things near impossible to do solo
>???
wow we fixed it
>>337044652
>>337044874
Common misconception. Many MMOs with mobs that are "near impossible to solo" were soloable. You just needed to be very good, very rich or have a specific class.
>>337045021
>have a specific class.
This was fine, ragnarok did it very well, every class had their own types of monsters they could do alone well but it was never as effective as getting a group.
I'm playing FFXIV right now, I don't see why people hate it so much. The client is very optimized, the graphics are good, it plays like a ATB style Final Fantasy game, and the community is friendly here on Primal/Leviathan.
>>337045253
>I don't see why people hate it so much
Because it's shit compared to XI. Sit in queue and ERP simulator.
>>337045338
What's wrong with queuing with friends you made in-game to instantly access content?
>burned out on MMOs
>none of them seem to give what I want in an MMO
>want high level caps, unique classes/builds, several viable builds instead of one accepted 'best' cookie cutter build, comfy leveling grind
>ToS announced, looks like everything I could possibly want in an MMO
>/v/ says it's shit
>play it anyway
>fucking love it, literally all I could ever want in an MMO
>still in early access and no one to fucking play with
>everyone transferring to the SEA and SA servers has left the international servers a barren wasteland where you literally have to wait 50 mins to queue up for the dungeon matchmaking
Why? Why must life be so awful?
>>337045432
It still makes you sit and wait even if you have a formed party, and you don't get equal rewards for making a party. All of this is just the tip of the iceberg. You can "access content" from anywhere at any time. It kills any and all feeling of immersion or adventure. There's no open world PvP, there's nothing in the world that poses a threat to players unless they're massively retarded. Rare monsters aren't fun to hunt and don't give suitable rewards. Crafting is shit and 99% useless along with gathering. Most assets in the game are recycled from other final fantasy games. The console version bogs down the game as a whole.
I could go on and on.
>not being a healslut in FF14
>>337045756
all of those are not true or subjective...
>>337042735
Nobody has patience and only care about instant-gratification these days, which makes for boring and unchallenging design choices to cater to the casuals. Long gone is the days of MMORPGs actually having social interaction and vast worlds to explore freely.
>>337045253
forced singleplayer campaign
why bother playing an MMO if I need to play alone
>>337045912
>none of this is true
Oh boy it's an ignorant ARR fanboi episode.
>>337046078
you don't have to play alone though...
What MMO hurt you the most /v/?
>Experience point and capacity point gains will be doubled
>returnees will be able to experience battle content even easier than before!
>Raise your item level to 119 by completing a tutorial quest!
Queues ruined MMO's. Sure dungeon queue's are faster but actually meeting people, becoming friends, FUCKING TALKING was far better, you may as well be doing dungeons with NPC's you interact with them as much.
Because MMOfags continue to support the same shit from AAA publishers that would rather attempt to be the next World of Warcraft than settle for a viable niche. The ultimate irony is, these people don't know any better, and they go from themepark to themepark thinking "THIS WILL BE THE ONE"
Meanwhile, the last AAA sandbox games to be released were Star Wars Galaxies/EVE Online in 2003.
Go support crowdfunded MMOs because that's the only way you're not going to get the same shit in a different setting at this point.
Check these out.
Albion Online
Chronicles of Elyria (most promising)
Gloria Victis
Shards Online
The RepopulationStar Citizen
>>337046213
Actually do you. Most of the job quests don't allow you to take other players in to help you.
>but this is a good thing
No, it's bullshit forced single player content in an MMORPG because "people won't learn otherwise." It's a flawed system. If people actually enjoyed the game and were challenged somewhere between level 1 and 50 or 60 you wouldn't need forced single player encounters. 1-50 in XIV is a giant tutorial and it's fucking gay.
It's taken a few years, but MMO market is finally at the same level as Korea is, filled with p2w, gachapon and cash shop bullshit to the point of destroying the games.
>>337046497
you mean the class quests? something that is missing in a lot of mmos these days?
>>337046591
>something that is missing in a lot of mmos these days?
And should stay that way.
>tfw youre the only one of your guild that keeps playing.
>>337046270
That one.
>>337046270
I actually think gw2 is a fun little collectathon. I don't really play it as an mmo, more like a multiplayer brawler. I really don't understand the hate towards it other than buttblasted gw1 players. It has the best f2p model I have ever seen. The classes are diverse, the maps are interesting and the expansion added a much needed challenge to the overworld. I personally enjoy it a lot.
Whats an mmo of any sort where I can focus on buffing the shit out of my teammates instead of being the holy trinity
>>337046497
This is why I like sandbox games. There's minimal interference in between you and the "good stuff"
>>337043425
How can people be tired of what they haven't had in 13+ years? If you're into sandbox games, you have the choice between EVE and uh..... *insert Kickstarter MMO still in development alpha*
>>337042735
As many people have said microtransactions are killing mmo's but I also want to add:
Quest to lv up instead of zone grinding is killing 50% of the fun.
Faction oriented game.
No open world pvp.
>>337046657
>other than buttblasted gw1 players
It's almost like people expected a good MMO and not a "play your way, I don't play it as an MMO multi-player brawler" or something.
>>337045817
>>337045253
FF14 is a dead game that nobody plays
>>337044874
People would still find a way to solo. Adding an experience incentive would make it so people at the very least grouped up during the grind. Forcing them to group up all the time might not be appealing to everyone.
>>337046738
>muh grinding is enjoyable
Anyone past the age of 18 doesn't want to spend hours collecting 10 boar assholes or grinding mobs.
I won't play games that don't respect my time. This is why I play EVE and Galaxies and Ultima Online (all sandbox games that were extremely open and community-based).
>>337046657
You said it, the free to play model. I bought the game for 60 bucks, then it became basically worthless, because f2p players can access the same shit as me. Fuck the new ANet. Also, it's not even Guild Wars anymore.
>>337046270
I'd problably have to even it out on city of heroes and trickster online
somewhere near that point I'd add mabinogi too, but that isn'tdeadso it's not as bad.
>>337046810
>forcing them to group up all the time might not be appealing to everyone.
MMOs in general won't be appealing to everyone, but yeah, XP should be piss low unless you're partying.
>95% of content is soloable
>The remaining 5% has a built in groupfinder that goes across realms
>Few to no incentives to create or maintain a party
>Few incentives to maintain a guild outside of communication
>Distinct and growing lack of objectives outside of instancing
>lack of horizontal or meaningful alternative progression
>Less social hubs (taverns, stages, inns, etc.) which server a purpose (See: Mabinogi)
>Less changing environments such as certain enemies only appearing at night or day, weather changing in zones that affect spawns, and lunar/solar cycles that could shift gathering professions
>Less meaningful player housing
>Content that doesn't encourage role diversity as long as you have a healer/tank/DPS
All this can be accomplished in a theme park. It doesnt have to be a directionless character driven sandbox by any means.
>>337046807
>that one ERP furfaggot server has players guys
Woopdie-fucking-doo.
>>337046810
>might not be appealing to everyone
So make an unlockable class that can solo. Problem solved. If they need to solo all day every day they should at least have to earn it.
>>337046640
so you support games that give you abilities right away upon leveling instead of earning them?
>>337046904
How much did you pay for max level characters on WoW?
>>337046801
But anon it still is an mmo. Just not what gw1 players were expecting. It's an mmo brawler collectathon and that's perfectly fine. I log on with my buds, do fractals with them, work on legendary collections, do some map completion, grind some more resources for our guild hall, its perfectly comfy.
>>337046647
Why didnt you stick to any of the other MMOs you tried out like ToS?ToS sure did fail miserably.
>>337047129
I tried, but didnt for the very reason you just said.
>>337047084
XI gave you an ability right away. I don't see the problem.
>>337047110
>It's an mmo brawler collectathon and that's perfectly fine
No, it isn't.
>all these themepark shitters
Yeah, I'm totally sure that *insert new collect 10 boar assholes quest simulator* will be totally different than the thousand MMOs that do the same thing before it
You faggots are the cancer ruining the industry. The last sandbox we got was EVE/Star Wars Galaxies in 2003 and think about the regard in which these games are held. Every fucking article that comes out about EVE, there's a thousand people saying "God, I wish I could play EVE on the ground, I love the player interaction/community but I don't like the gameplay/setting"
Why isn't there a modern EVE-esque on the ground? Chronicles of Elyria is one, but why isn't a AAA publisher doing something like it?
>>337047129
>Hey guys I know you greenlit us on steam and beta tested the game for hundreds of hours
>but fuck you pay for this early access server
Gee why did this game fail?
>>337047238
I keep thinking about going back to Mabi but with Ariadust dead or moved on I have nothing but frustration in store if I did that, even though now I can buy Nexonbucks.
>>337046971
But anon that's the perfect b2p/f2p model. Its what every other game should have. Buy the game, no sub fee and a shop to buy cosmetics and other non p2w things which you can use ingame gold as well as real money.
>>337047335
>babby who never touched mabigoogoo or haven and hearth
>>337046657
The shitty pasta is getting old.
>>337047373
Im playing with a friend, he gave me that armor im wearing that costs at least 6m.
But yeah sometimes i feel kinda lonely, specially when i dont spend a single penny in the game and every new gachapon is filled with overpowered gear.
>>337047241
XI had a shit ton of ability bloat and was terrible to play.
>>337047346
Not only is the translation terrible, the optimization is abysmal, theres no battlegrounds (yet), no WoE, guilds are still able to be wardec against their will, open PvP is single digit FPS anyway, the trade restrictions are the worst ive seen in a game yet bots are still rampant, and the cash shop while not the worst even is still worse than just a monthly fee.
>>337046454
why do so many of those + so many not mentioned require building a base? It seems like minecraft is creeping into every game nowadays and its the 1 thing that really turns me off from a game. Even fallout had settlement building, luckily it wasn't required or I would have put even less time into it.
Is sandbox / building really a selling point for people now?
>>337047086
I don't play WoW because I hate collect 10 boar assholes I am the hero sent to save the world type games.
I'd much rather have an immersive world/universe with a bunch of mechanics to let me live out my medieval bandit/space diplomat fantasies
I understand it's difficult to explain this to babby born in 2XXX that hasn't played a MMO not inspired by World of Warcraft, but they used to be different in a better way.
Watch this. Seriously
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvK8fua6O64
>>337047335
>Why isn't there a modern EVE-esque on the ground?
People don't like to take risks, especially when it comes to big corporations and their money.
>>337046904
>I won't play games that don't respect my time
1hr of solo questing or 1hr of group grinding still wastes 1hr of your free time I don't see any difference.
>>337047241
Why isn't it fine, because people were expecting gw1 with better graphics? That's not a very good reason. The game is fun the way it is.
>>337046807
look at all those bots
>>337047013
>2016-02-29
>Math group dungeon
Is that suppose to be the dungeon revamp? How is it?
>>337047494
>bloat
I bet you don't even know what that word is supposed to mean. If you want to talk about bloat just look at any modern MMO. It's 99% bloat.
>>337047535
Sounds like I didn't miss anything. They should have brought Wolfknights over here in stead of ToS anyway.
>>337047652
Because people were expecting a good game.
>>337047569
What's the bigger risk? Making the thousandth WoW clone or making something different that people want?
>>337047598
>questing
>group grinding
You're talking in World of Warcraft terms anon. I play sandbox games.
Watch this anon's video >>337047563
>>337046270
>tfw you will never get to 30k AP for the full Radiant armor set before GW3 is released
>>337047406
I played Haven &Hearth 2. A bunch of Goons play it with me. It's pretty fun but it's not mainstream at all and it has an incredibly small budget.
>>337047373
Not worth going back to mabi the very moment they started giving r1 BiS gear in the gachapons.
New dresses and pets come in gachapons too.
The game went full gamble mode to get as much money as possible from the remaining suckers.
I'd login, do G20 if you haven't yet, and logout. The new squire system fucking sucks anyway.
>>337047731
Get a load of all these useless spells, makes it such a good game right?
is black desert online any good
>>337047758
Funny thing is that I never played WoW.
>>337043676
Westerners have evolved into their hybrid action mmos like Warframe and The Division.
The future is upon us, the conventional mmo's of Orcs spamming 1234 while they look plate greaves off of a chicken are over.
Idk if I like the new direction but its pretty clear that conventional mmos are dying out in favor of hybrid mmos. Unfortunately no matter what you play you can guarantee it will have microtransactions because cell phone/tablet gaming sparked a business trend.
>>337047954
You've played World of Warcraft even if you haven't played World of Warcraft by playing literally any MMO released in the last 12 years because there hasn't been ANYTHING different.
Unless you have played the rare exception (Ultima Online/Asheron's Call/Star Wars Galaxies/EVE Online/Haven and Hearth/Mortal Online), I would argue that you haven't played a MMORPG
>>337047652
>play Resident Evil game because you're expecting a survival horror game
>you're punching the shit out of giant boulders with your near superhuman strength
>expecting a survival horror franchise to make a survival horror game is a very good reason to hate said game
>>337047493
>>337047373
It's a shame too, mabinogi itself is pretty much still a fine game but the only people playing it still are people who have done FUCKING EVERYTHING and as such you're left to run around alone.
>>337047953
They fucked up the pvp and siege system.
>>337048051
Warframe is still doing good though, but Division is dying hard. If there was a good Warframe competitor then more MMOFPS games could work in the future.
>>337048183
So not worth buying, basically?
>>337048113
Yeah but theres a difference between saying its a bad game and saying its a bad RE game.
>>337048051
There's a future in MMORPGs, not MMOs
A MMO is a questing simulator with shit gameplay due to networking restrictions, while a MMORPG takes advantage of the thousands of players on the shard through meaningful player interaction.
A MMORPG's gameplay can be forgiven for providing meaningful player interaction in a way that isn't possible in other games.... But why would I play a MMO like World of Warcraft when I could play The Witcher 3 or Dragon Age Cisquisition, get the same "YOU ARE THE HERO NOW BRING ME BACK 10 EAGLE FEATHERS" experience?
>>337043356
I like this one.
>>337048227
its the future, I think the trend will continue.
The new forumla is out and more companies are going to throw their hate into the fray.
>mmos are dying out
>blockbuster FPS is dying out (Halo and COD are both bombing)
>combine the two
>new business
It will be the next craze, at least for awhile.
>>337047717
I don't know if it was revamped, what's exactly different here? I just ran into here and some new players invited me in, we ran some dungeons and had a blast.
>>337047927
You upgrade those spells or get completely new ones. It's not bloat unless you're some sort of special snowflake that needs to cast Fire II instead of IV because it's his faborite spell.
I miss NavyField
Anyone still playing?
>>337048413
hat*
>>337048360
This. Elder Scrolls going full co-op is inevitable, and at that point, there will be group dungeons and probably PVP content, so what appeal is there behind World of Warcraft-esque games?
I can see the appeal in games like EVE Online. I can see none in World of Warcraft clone #1902091290129012901290
>>337048430
Dungeon revamp adjusts the difficulty for the old dungeons and completely revamps Peaca. I just felt surprised pubs were doing dungeons, normally in NA Mabi people do shadow mission pubs.
Guys, are there some forums where people collect info to make server emulators for MMOs?
Have you guys ever done drawings/stuff of your MMO characters?
Pic related.
Is ToS recovering, or going to even deeper shit?
I registered steam just for that game
what mmo lets me play lots of different classes and mixmatch my builds
>>337048360
I see what you're saying but your " 'MMO' means this 'MMORPG' means this" is fucking dumb
>>337048746
>mixmatch
Not XIV.
>>337048286
This guy, he gets it. Gw2 isn't a bad game. It's just a bad guild wars game.
>>337048701
ToS is done, what a debacle that was
>>337048701
Deeper shit I imagine. The enemy respawn rates are terrible. Botting is rampant. Trade restrictions dont seem to be giving way. This is all before F2P even launches today. Now imagine competing over mobs with all those people in an environment where having 20+ people on screen means having single digit FPS on high end rigs. Plus theres no future direction for the game.
>>337048776
Why is that? For a MMORPG to be a MMORPG, it has to be massively online multiplayer where you're role playing.
I wouldn't define a "You are the hero, so is that guy over there" as a RPG because everyone is playing the same person.
The magic of socializing in online games kind of diluted because online gaming became the norm and every game has multiplayer features now. So now we're left with the actual games themselves that aren't even that great. Developers know this, and try to ease up on the tedium that was used to keep you paying a monthly fee but it's only caused problems because now the unceasing tedium is just a bore and there's no commitment needed.
I suppose if you really want a community driven MMO you could play Second Life.
hey who wants to play ragnarok
>>337049017
Every time someone remakes the general it dies in hours, so either everyone has moved on or have grown tired of it. Classic/Trans is stale, and Renewal is unappealing to most.
>>337048051
In other words,the market has moved on to some other genre to fill the role of timesink gindy game.
After more than 10 years of literal domination by WoW, it was bound to happen.
>>337048701
Game is not even on the Gamenote rankings anymore. Normally it would be between 80-90.
>>337047545
Minecraft is a better pseudo-MMO than most actual MMOs, which is why devs are influenced by it.
Because "it's, like, a regular game, but you can play with A MILLION PEOPLE at once!" is actually a dumb premise for a video game.
Your brain can only interact with about five people at once and you can only have about 50 people you could call "friends".
Those other millions of people are completely redundant.
You can't make a game where a million people participate at once and have some kind of meaningful role.
meanwhile in some popular MMO
>>337049216
Why MMOs didn't change when people were exposed to Minecraft/Day-Z is beyond me
Those games thrive due to meaningful player interaction. Sandbox MMOs do meaningful player interaction extremely well
I can hop on Day-Z and have a completely different experience than the 500 people on the server. Same goes for Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies.
>>337049298
>That crown
How many people who had that actually did their job to teach newbie players and not suck?
>>337047545
>Is sandbox / building really a selling point for people now?
I second this. To me a Sandbox is a already set world, populated with shit and vast landscapes to explore. The sandbox sets in, in class development, free trade and economy, no quest hubs, horizontal progression(items/char) etc etc. I guess something like SWG, but you know, active and constantly evolving forward.
>>337048654
Every MMO has it's own such forum.
Maxcheaters deals mostly in Lineage 2 private servers, with a small WOW section, but you may find people who can point you in the right direction there.
>>337049190
basically yes.
People want faster paced "skill" driven gameplay, and in game voice chat.
They care less about wandering around large zone after zone as long as they have lobbies and maps to play with their buds.
Hybrid games satisfy the grind/competitive itch, while single player RPGS satisfy the exploring/crafting/dialogue itch.
Conventional themepark mmos? well they are a jack of all trades but since they generally do nothing well they are falling out of favor and leaving people disappointed.
>>337042735
Themeparks, lack of innovation, stagnation. Every game being reduced to a skinnerbox with no actual depth behind it, lacking in content and ways to approach it. No bigshot company today is concerned with making a game you or your friends would want to play together and lose yourself in. They are making a product that exists to be sold and generate income.
>>337048286
>>337048798
Guild Wars 2 isn't a bad Guild Wars game, it's not a Guild Wars game at all.
I like Black Desert Online
I can fish! I mean, no one seems to have the time to stop and talk but I mostly solo anyway.
I can also catch horses with a lasso. It's pretty homey
>>337049298
I wish I knew what the fuck happened to XIV. None of the content patches make me want to come back and remembering the shit community only makes me want to stay away.
>>337044008
this familia
you enter a mmo wanting to find people making parties and doing shit but most of the people try to avoid everyone and just playing the game like a regular rpg
>>337049662
I can't find anything even remotely related to TSW apart from subreddit and official forum. Well, shit. Thanks anyway, I'll continue searching.
>>337050162
They decided to make a WoW clone instead of a good game. That's what happened to XIV.
>>337050356
A streamlined XI would work if 4.0 wasn't complete garbage
>>337050356
We had all these big cool summons in XI and we just got shitty egi's in XIV because the primals were bosses.
It sucks, I can't even summon bombs or cactaur or anything.
>>337050162
a friend I was playing with wants me to come back.
But why? To beat on all the same bosses again? To memorize fights by watching youtube videos so no one yells at me for not knowing the dance? Maybe if it were f2p, i'd come on to hang but I cant imagine giving the game $14 more just to sit around and be bored
>>337049813
This.
If you want innovation and something "different" in general, crowdfunding is the way to go. I can't trust suits with dollar signs in their eyes to do a proper MMORPG when they're all about the "bottom line" and creating a product that's consumable by the average consumer (fucking dumbass).
>>337050452
>if 4.0 wasn't complete garbage
It was garbage because it was incomplete, not because they emulated XI.
>>337050454
I remember when Yoshi promised to let GCs control primals, and that summoning them would change the entire zone. What a lying piece of shit he is.
>>337050592
>I remember when Yoshi promised to let GCs control primals, and that summoning them would change the entire zone. What a lying piece of shit he is.
Fuck, now I'm mad. That sounds amazing.
>>337050649
That was the least of his promises, mind you.
>>337050592
>It was garbage because it was incomplete, not because they emulated XI.
I didn't imply emulating XI's combat was bad. 4.0 had stability problems, a borked auction system and copypasta areas.
>>337048962
>The magic of socializing in online games kind of diluted because online gaming became the norm and every game has multiplayer features now.
That's actually a good point. I wonder if it'd be possible to implement a system that would disperse or change it by limiting communication or make every player unknown till you quest around together or something like that.
I loved RuneScape. I discovered it in middle school but by the time I got a rig good enough for WoW and shit like that I was too immersed into the clan community.
My theory is that being able to play online with consoles killed MMO's. Kids who would've otherwise started tinkering with their PC's (like us) to play online games no longer have to because consoles come with online built in and essentially all of them come with online in mind.
Its a shame. I really miss those nights staying up on teamspeak until 4am with the bros just PK'ing.
>>337050750
>stability problems, a borked auction system and copypasta areas.
The auction system wasn't.... no wait, yes it was broken. Having entire zones of retainers was retarded. By the way they kept retainers because they're retarded. The stability issues were mainly from the optimized lighting and graphics, and the copy paste was a slapjob. The game was incomplete.
Would anyone even be interested in a H&H that didn't run on java and had a less shit generated world?
>>337048962
>>337050937 here, ahh this guy beat me to the punch.
>>337043231
Wish there were more content.
Like loads more.
Does Destiny count?
>buy Destiny a while ago
>get around to playing it now
>find out that I need a PS+ subscription to access like 40% of the game
>find out I need to buy an "expansion pack" to access another 40% of the game
>finish all of the non-grinding content in less than 7 hours
>>337050138
They sure seem to have time to yell for people for boss scroll parties. That's it though.
I'm not sure the local chat even works because I haven't seen a single thing typed on it.
>>337042735
MMO's have fallen out of style now that video game trends and online play have changed so much over the decades, not to mention that while people are willing to pay subs for console online, they aren't as willing to do so for individual games.
I think it also has to do with how an MMO is structured, you're usually forced into the meta or else you're not gonna do well come mid to late game and for the current generation they aren't gonna like crunching down the numbers and such.
>TSW
>MMO that contains story-driven quests, fantastic writing and an interesting world
>Lore is scattered all over the place and every NPC you can interact with has fully voiced dialogue from skilled voice actors
>Game is loaded with secrets to be found
>Skill system is nonrestrictive and you can swap out/mix and match skills at any time
>Almost zero attention
>MMO with anime clothing simulator
>3 trillion subscribers and an autistic fanbase
Gee wiz, I wonder what went wrong. It's almost like MMO's that put effort in get fucked and rehash sword and board magic anime mmos get pumped full of cash every fucking time.
>>337050889
Destiny does that.
>>337047335
>Why isn't there a modern EVE-esque on the ground?
Elite Dangerous
No innovation
Developers too afraid to take risks/don't have the money to take risks like they used to
Everything ends up being the same with a different skin
>>337051160
Because no one does. Why would you even use local chat? There is no real PvE or open world PvP raids that would requiriere some basic communication.
Fuck even WoW had more sense of community during those stupid lvl 1 gnome raids.
>cater to dedicated players
>genre is popular, burgeoning, successful
>cater to casuals
>genre dwindles
>continue to cater to casuals anyway
ok
>>337044008
There should be no singleplayer quest.
There should be really nothing you can do alone in an mmo.
Honestly I'd rather have a smaller population MMO that alienates the 9-5 family man than create a huge MMO that caters to as many as possible at the cost of its content being too easy.
JUST
>>337051468
lol you fucking what
Minecraft is the best mmo to come out in years. Prove me wrong.
>can socialize and build anything with bros
>the world is entirely controlled by you
The MMORPGs with good gameplay mechanics and world look like crap
The MMORPGs that have high tier graphics play like crap and are very bland
Take your pick
>>337051223
It is a damn shame, but I can understand why it's happening.
It's too 'SP' oriented for MMO crowd and too 'MP' oriented for usual RPG players. Plus combat suffers from it being MMO.
It would be perfect in a co-op RPG format (it basically is, but not enough). Like NWN.If animations and world models would be available for extracting, I'd start making a SP version of it, but without them it's impossible.
The actual answer is so fucking difficult, that I can't be bothered to spell it out. It isn't just that publishers and creators are afraid of change, it's also that designing a "sandbox" MMO is really fucking difficult. Not to mention the fact, that the combat in MMOs suck, because no engine and no internet connection could handle thousands of players streaming inputs into the server and you MUST have that for the illusion of an open MMO.
Also, the demographics change. While the target for MMOs have been largely students, these people have moved on to having jobs and families. They still play games, but they'd rather play something for an hour or two and move on, rather than spend hours in those games. Fuck, I won't in gamedev, I don't fucking eat so I have six hours free each evening, I don't think I could maintain a serious MMO "life", especially if it demanded me to play.
That said, I believe that the first MMO to ditch or severely limit leveling will be successful as fuck. Again, people don't want to spend 100 hours to just get to the end-game and all of these resources spent on leveling are lost, because that content is only used once. Fuck that, make a lot of end-game content and just present it to the player.
>>337045713
>Supporting shady practices like head starts.
>>337049298
>the irony of someone saying you weaboo trash make me sick while playing a FF mmo
>>337051954
ArcheAge would be one that had good gameplay mechanics and had good graphics, but it was ruined by cash shop / hacks / shit servers / poor support at fixing stuff that needed to be fixed quickly.
>>337045713
Sorry my man but if you love ToS your standards have hit rock bottom.
>>337042735
ToS has horrible polish/optimization and subpar boring cooldown-based gameplay.
WoW is the pinnacle of the MMO genre. There needs to be a huge innovation before you see a push to another game/archetype
>>337043231
wish the combat was more fun. I know the best parts are the non-combat parts, but it still makes you fight a ton.
>>337051703
Agree m8
Until this is solved, MMOs will remain in a dark age.
>>337052092
The solution can be to simply have lots of End Game content on release.
Rift did it right. There was plenty of difficult raids to do.
>>337046270
I played FFXI for 4 years and bought a whole new rig for FFXIV when it was about it come out.
I stopped playing after 2 weeks, at best, along with everyone else on the planet.
ARR was okay, but I expected the expansion to make it better and add cool new stuff, but in reality it was just a big patch that made all the old content both obsolete AND a total faceroll, while forgetting to add content worth doing on it's own, so here we are with the current state of the game having literally 2 pieces of relevant content: Sephirot EX and Alexander Savage, with everything else being deader than dead because there's no incentive to do them.
So basically if you don't like raiding you might as well not even play.
Really can't get over what a huge disappointment that game was.
why aren't there any MMOs
i put 1,000 hours into warframe and did everything but all that game had was powercreep and grind
i'm playing XIV for some fucking reason, almost have all 60's since my server has no raiding scene
>>337048886
That's why instancing exists, isolate the bots, but fags think it's wrong, reap what you sow.
>>337050889
Disabling player names above their heads would be a huge step forward. There should be a way to read player names only after the player actually shows you who he is. That'd add another layer of social interaction and would make being sneaky interesting.
>>337051703
>There should be really nothing you can do alone in an mmo.
That's not entirely true, I've met agirlthat would refuse teaming up with other players, but still enjoyed playing MMOs for the sole feeling of being in a living world.
I don't entirely hate that playstyle. The problem are the single-player quests and pointless plotlines. If somebody wants to grind a resource alone, while avoiding gankers, that's fine. They're still contributing to the economy and the world.
>>337052749
Or you could just remove the bots instead of ruining the game in a failed attempt to remove them through mechanics.
>>337052241
This.
The only MMO I'm looking forward to is Lost Ark Online.
Though Lineage Eternal looks good.
>>337052714
>So basically if you don't like raiding you might as well not even play.
Pretty sure that is everything past WoW.
What do you guys think about Chronicles of Elyria? Will it be our next failed hope, or will it break the hope - disappointment cycle somehow?
>>337051468
Are you retarded or just b8ing?
>>337050454
Summoner was such a fucking waste in XIV.
You can literally call it anything else and just palette swap the Egis and nobody would know the difference.
Also good luck trying to main both SMN and SCH, because lol they share the same stats! Enjoy!
>>337051530
You would think there was some use. I've even been to a couple leveling spots and met a stranger there, but normally it's just some silent staring contest and the other guy moves elsewhere or whatever. They have their own task list and I've got mine.
>>337052969
>Removing bots in F2P
What an utopia, family.
Closest to that I can think of is RS which actually managed to break almost all bots with bot nuke and later on improved bot detection and all so there are but few left. But you literally can't do anything in an F2P game to remove all bots or even close to since new ones will just keep on coming.
>>337053236
>aging and death
Yeah, permadeath worked so well for realm of the mad god.
>>337053210
I have played WoW since TBC and not raided.
to this day I'd rather play P99 EverQuest or some classic UO shard than anything released in the last decade.
>>337046270
Please don't...
It still hurts so bad anon.
For many of you Guild Wars 1 was shit and I understand, it wasn't for everyone, but it was unique and some of us loved it.
>>337053386
Natural lifespan is supposedly one year, give or take 3 months. Additionally every time you die your soul gets stronger, which affects something (not sure what though)
Also
>Comparing an actual mmo to RotMG
>>337053373
>But you literally can't do anything in an F2P game to remove all bots or even close to since new ones will just keep on coming.
Put anything that requires skill in the game. Don't rely on patterns. Don't make the game a themepark, for fuck's sake.
>>337053448
>lets remove all content that made the first game unique and enjoyable and turn it into a manaless spamfest with "dynamic events" that have absoloutely 0 hold on the game world and just repeat in 10 mins/1hr etc regardless of failure or success
>>337046454
>Scam Citizen
L
O
L
>>337042735
>tfw RS07 could have been absolutely perfect
>incompetence
>mod John RWT'ing and leaking shit
>PVP/ Twitch pandering
>fucked priorities and hypocrisy
>Afraid of even one unsub so deathly bad that they refuse to fix a game-breaking exploit because Reddit and other shitters whined about MUH BUSY SCHEDULE and leave the life of the game up to the shitter majority
>the massive blunder that was Zeah
It hurts
>>337053236
900k for a MMO? Disappointment.
>>337053560
You think any of those will stop from bots being made? Especially when bots primarily function to rake gold.
>Don't make the game a themepark, for fuck's sake.
RS isn't themepark but it was extremely botted game for grind and chinese botted for gold.
>>337053627
>>lets remove all content that made the first game unique and enjoyable and turn it into a manaless spamfest with "dynamic events" that have absoloutely 0 hold on the game world and just repeat in 10 mins/1hr etc regardless of failure or success
9.9/10 Only thing I would add is:
>No monks
>>337053236
Looks like a typical "we're trying to be different" piece of shit will fail.
People thought lots of MMO's would work that never even got 'mainstream'. Like Darkfall.
>>337053627And Guild Wars 2 made way more money than all of GW1 combined, so clearly they are doing something rightAnd that is being reliant on the shittiest community in all videogames
Come at meGuildtards
>>337053802
Where can I check up those numbers?
Also, keep in mind that Guild wars 1 was to Guild wars 2 what Titanic was to Avatar.
Without the previous the others couldn't have had the promo they had or even come to life.
>>337053681
Grinding is a pattern and filler content.
That said, every game is, to an extent, about grinding. But if your grinding is about running from a mob to a mob, it's shit.
If your grinding is about randomly placed monsters, that randomly use different skills to which you have to properly respond, random "fuck you" boss monsters that can pop into your grinding spot and fuck you up if you don't run away, open PVP with gankers that you have to watch out for - yeah, try to slam a bot into that.
I know there were bots for a game like Tibia, but it wasn't a huge problem. And you can have much, much more mechanics than Tibia to fuck bots over.
>Maplestory servers are slowly dying
Like seeing an old estranged friend on the deathbed.
>>337054160
Man Runescape really was ahead of its time with anti-boss stuff
Pantheon Rise of the Fallen and Camelot Unchained are the only two mmos that look decent at all. And that's because they look like modern age EQ and DAoC respectively.
>>337053945
>obsidian chaos gloves blindfold
it's every player ever
>>337054515
What about my main?
>>337043356
This.
Every mmo just feels p2w. It's not fun.
>>337051468
braben leave you piece of shit
>>337053945
>>337054614
>chaos gloves
kill yourself my man
>>337053236
looks shit
>>337054879
>2008 is the current year
>Being Poor
>>337052708
Then why is rift barely worth mentioning when it comes to MMOs?
>>337045817
Source? Reverse image doesn't get anything.
>>337054160
>bots for a game like Tibia, but it wasn't a huge problem
Probably the second biggest problem the game had/has, you could always hunt botters for fun though. The first one was CipSoft ruining the game themselves version after version until all the fun had been sucked out.
Just look at fun stuff like this. Music warning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZJcpfykm9o
>>337042735
NIGGAH warhammer online private servers are booming
>>337045817
Server?
>>337045713
I was so hyped for that game, thought I was doing myself a favor by not reading up to much about the game. Early access hits, I buy it.
Do nothing other that auto hit mobs for 5 hours.
Uninstall.
There are about 5 current kinds of MMOs at the moment
1) We have WoW clones that do well, these are basically just WoW and FF14 at the moment. There are tons that failed like wildstar vanilla swtor, and rift.
2) Hybrid action MMOs, not quite a traditional MMO but they're stuff like Warframe.
3) Story driver single player MMOs, basically shit that you just play the story for and the MMO content is there for the hardcore crew, this is stuff like the current swtor expansion and vindictus and to a degree guild wars 2 even if the story is shit.
4) Sandbox MMOs, things that just are more free form and don't really force the player to go into any one path for progression. Stuff like EVE and Black Desert.
5) Shit that just won't fucking die. These are things like the original Lineage.
>>337055532
Where's Mabinogi in this mix?
>>337046454
Albion is shit, kinda tries to be Tibia, i'd rather just play Tibia instead.
Chronicles of Elyria, looks good on paper. But imo seems to be to ambitious and will most likely fall on its ass because of that.
Star Citizen can go suck a 300 dollar virtual space ship.
Others i haven't checked.
>>337055672
closer to sandbox
>>337042735
MMOs are just glorified single player games.
>nobody ever talks outside of world chat
>the only human interaction and multiplayer you get is the occasional forced dungeon
>>337046270
>>337055050
nothing to do with being poor, I literally have every armor set in the game for all my characters, my issue is that they look like dogshit
infinite cap level but with a softcap easy to reach, after thst softcap leveling becomes nearly impossible but still possible
you level by grinding
you can pk, but with heavy penalties for killing innocent players unless they are in an enemy guild that you are currently in a war with
free market, capitalism ho
non-instanced arena in the center of the big city where people can queue for small scale battles and everyone can watch from the audience
woe-like castle sieges
ingame currency is useful for quality of life but doesn't make you that oveepowered, making gold sellers and bots not THAT much of an issue
Thus is my perfect mmorpg
>>337042735
>several mentions of SWG and UO as examples of good MMOs
Good taste, anons.
>>337055910
>not talking to people while you fished
I miss the time when I enjoyed runescape
>>337055058
So I have to pop this shit EVERY SINGLE TIME I want to swap from SMN to SCH just to access a basic functionality for the fucking job?
Why not just get rid of the garbage system keeping the stats tied together instead of making people swap their stats around whenever the fuck they want to change jobs?
It's the stupidest shit in the world, almost as dumb as not being able to queue up in the duty finder in Duty Finder: The Game with a fucking Chocobo out, making it near useless.
>>337042735
MMO's cannot survive when pandering to a casual audience, it simply cannot work when you hand things out that should take weeks, if not months to earn.
When MMO's start to go for that casual dollar, things get fucked and people start to leave. I don't play an MMO to log in and have free shit just handed to me, I want to earn my rewards, but developers don't give a fuck anymore, they just want to most people as possible to play their shit game in a meager attempt to get them hooked.
>GW 2 isn't bad guise!
I see anet shills are again in full force. Deploying countermeasures.
>>337057302
GW2 was awesome for the 2 weeks around launch when all the zones were full.
>>337051703
So... old Lineage 2?
>>337056361
>ingame currency is useful for quality of life but doesn't make you that oveepowered, making gold sellers and bots not THAT much of an issue
>free market, capitalism ho
these two points are directly at odds with one another
with a free market, gold sellers and bots would be a gigantic issue, as players would just buy the best gear with real money
>>337057359
What is there to do once you've got world completion done?
Farming for a legendary is boring a shit, and that's a gear grind. (Something the devs said they didn't want for the game)
Ascended gear is only a 10% boost in stats. It takes MONTHS of farming to get a full set. Not worth it. Also, gear grind.
World bosses? They're just on a rotation. All you do is follow the zerg and spam your auto attack. Your only reward is a crappy RNG gear part. Rarely ever a good one.
Dungeons? You mean the same ones you've been doing since launch?
Fractals? You mean Dungeons: Shitty edition?
WvW? That's never been balanced OR popular.
SPvP? With Gw2 Classes and combat? Good luck with that.
>>337055743
Chronicles of Elyria seems good so far. If it fails I'm done with MMORPGs.
>>337043092
Did you ever play the European or middle eastern clans/classes?
I remember stopping playing before they released those
>>337043231
Which group did you join?
Surely you didn't pick the meme Templars or illuminatis
RPG setup doesn't work for MMOs.
The entire premise of an MMO is that it remains active for as long as it makes money. RPGs entire premise is the hero's arc, where you start weak and then build up to smack down some god or ancient evil or evil conspiracy. Start, middle, and end.
Why would you ever want to put an END into something that's supposed to remain for as long as possible?
"End game content" is basically designing to fail.
Putting in a grind to DELAY that "end game content" is working around your flawed design.
Using your flawed design as a nickle-and-dime trap for people with loose wallets so you can pickpocket 5 dollarydoos a fancy hat (which may or may not make you more powerful) is somewhere from practically to certainly unethical.
Likewise, if you try to pull some "You saved the city!" but up comes some new character 5 seconds later and "THE CITY IS IN DANGER HELP US" where every character is obviously on completely seperate but identical story line plots, congrats you fucked the entire premise of a MULTIPLAYER game.
>>337058126
Dragon is the best.
>>337058165
This is why I say this is the best formula for an MMO:
>No leveling
>No gear (loot is cosmetic only)
>Action combat like Warframe or Smite
>Open world with no fast travel (At least as large as DaggerFall)
>Multiple ways of travel. (Sailing, Mounts, being carried by other players, etc.)
>Things to do other than combat. (Trading in wagons, crafting cool looking gear, gathering, player house decorating, etc.)
It's a shame this will never be a thing.
>>337047335
The closest thing to "EVE on the ground" is old Runescape. You're pushed out into the world and are tasked with making your fortune with little bullshit in between, the economy and trading is done entirely by the community, and there's not a boar-asshole in sight.
>>337058165
RPG refers to a set of mechanics, not a story or setting.
You can definitely have an MMORPG or a single player RPG even without any chosen ones and cities in need of rescuing.
>>337059176
EvE is more characterised by it's competition and rivalries between clans imo.
I don't know if RS had that, but plenty of other old MMOs did.
MMOs should learn from TCGs. While they do have power creep, even the earliest sets have stuff that's useful. New dungeons should add options, rather than being a straight upgrade. That keeps all the dungeons relevant forever.
The difficulty of getting gear, and thus the best options, forces people to think about what they have, and try to be creative with many different movesets.
Restricted move options at any given time may be necessary for this to work, like only ten battle options avaible or something.
>>337057359
How is mindlessly Zerging a boss and lagging the shit out of a server fun in any way anon?
>>337057302
Does any one have a high res version of this?
>>337060663
That is high res
>>337058165
>Why would you ever want to put an END into something that's supposed to remain for as long as possible?
Exactly why I play round based online games comparable to space station 13
You go in with nothing and leave with nothing but the memories you made.
People come back because they want to make more.
>>337042735
>Itemization stagnation where everything is just a level based stat stick
>New content always replaces old content instead of expanding what's there
>Automatic Match making in a genre where socialization should be essential which works against that goal
>strict trinity based class systems with little to no wiggle room for anything different
And a personal little problem I have is that I just don't think you should be able to solo yourself to max level. It encourage isolation for new players in what should be a social game
Camelot Unchained is pretty much the only thing worth looking forward to
>>337063341
After being given 5 million dollars I should fucking hope so.
>>337046270
TOR because it means this will never exist
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side
all the ebin tortanic maymays in the world will never undo the hurt this causes me.kotor 2 is my favorite game.
>>337046270
You posted it
Rift killed me when it went f2p, it was my first real MMO that wasn't shit. Seeing it kill itself hurt so much.
>>337064174
Why was everyone hyped for this again?
>>337064378
What was so special about Rift compared to WoW? The only thing that stood out to me that was enjoyable was the rift event system.
>>337064174
Hahahahaa
>>337064485
The class system mainly. The raiding was also pretty prime, Hammerknell's final boss was amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYNUdroTCn0
>>337064174
I thought that was one of the really old single player RPG
>>337064174
Bioware seriously have some of the shittest animations in all of gaming.
Casuals.
And a new barrier for success. High numbers are required to not be seen as a dead project.
