This is how stupid souls fans are
Why does the design of the games make the fans stupid?
>>337009343
not what I am implying
*sucks miyazaki's cock* yeah dude 3 isn't linear at all
>circular level design is good because it satisfies my OCD
Fuck off Matthew
>>337009430
great poast nobody understands u but at least your mommy does ;^)
>>337009606
well >>337009434 understood, perhaps you are just slow
>>337009648
coming from the retard who has no point who makes epic lore posts on 4chan trying to make anons Guess which retarded opinion he's hinting at in OP
Go suck on your mommys tit kiddo winkieface
>>337009174
Just like your thread.
>>337009174
Oh yeah because Izalith wasnt linear
Or archives
Or Anor Londo
Or tomb of giants
Or all of the DLC
Or most of blighttown
>>337009174
I love Dark Souls 1 world design as much as the next guy, but come on, it's not NEARLY as advanced as that image makes it out to be
>>337009789
>>337009876
That is my point, Souls fans go around eating up memes such as this picture.
>>337009998
brilliant
thread of tehh years
>>337010103
still mad I called you slow
>>337010217
>>337010103
lol
How old were you when you grew our of your "Souls" phase?
>>337010412
still like the games, fans though...
fixed
>>337010575
better
>>337009789
those are all the penultimate bosses and blightown wasn't linear at all
>>337009789
The areas where you go to get the Lord Souls are linear, yes. They could have done more with connecting them back to the areas in the rest of the game, but it makes a certain amount of sense that they wouldn't connect either (they all have lore reasons for being remote)
The DLC is only three areas, how the fuck else were they supposed to connect them but in a straight line?
Anor Londo connects to the Painted World, Sen's Fortress, and the Archives. Blighttown connects to the Great Hollow, the Depths, the Valley of Drakes, and the Demon Ruins.
A real comparision
>>337011573
best level design in the series, Dark Souls 3 sure is great :^)
buy that season pass, the dlc will just make it better :>)
I think diversity in world design isn't a bad thing in a series.
It's just that it would be better received had it gone from more linear to more complex instead of the other way around. On top of perhaps making the connections more coherent. What with the lift in Earthern Peak leading to a lava castle in the sky, but then again I buy the theory that the game just omits longer, uneventful treks between the locations.
And DaS 1, as beautifully coherent as it was, did strike me as really convenient that all the goals you need to "save" the world were more or less in walking distance of the capital instead of scattered over the whole country.
>>337011573
this is so true
>>337011963
If you've seen the map of Drangleic that comes with the CE of Dark Souls 2 you'll see that Earthen Peak and the Iron King castle keep place are actually a long ways away from each other, the game takes you all over the continent of it but just doesn't show the transitions.
>>337009174
fixed.
>>337012596
DELETE THIS
>>337012596
Would it kill them to try to connect more areas like they did in Dark Souls 1?
Where does Bloodborne fit in?
Can someone post OS's image on Japanese boards and post back their responses?
>>337009174
Dark Souls 1 has a confusing as fuck layout especially early on. And then areas that are totally hidden for no reason.
Just because you're ok either using a guide like a faggot or running around in circles because autism doesn't mean the rest of us should have to deal with it.
>>337009174
i dont get it
>>337012876
*OP's image
>>337009174
>>337010575
>>337011573
>>337012338
Why does this matter? What's wrong with being able to play the game without using a wiki?
>>337012896
>hurrrrr i confused, just give me tunnels!!
>>337012732
Yeah because than people would complain about not-Skeltans destroying them again.
>>337013026
the point was more about how Souls fan suck Miyazaki's cock and hustle memes instead of thinking critically
>>337013192
I don't understand how the map layout relates to that.
>>337012896
The only things hidden and hard to find in Das1 were optional and designed to be hidden and hard to find. Anyone with a half-decent sense of 3D space and direction could make a mental map of the entire game with ease because it all fit together logically (EG the thing you see in the distance is actually that far away, no weird overlapping areas or impossible transitions) and the game makes a point of having visible landmarks all over the place.
It shits the bed a bit later on, with Izalith, Tomb of Giants and Abyss all ending in dead ends that you need to warp out of, but Firelink, Burg, Parish, Darkroot, Depths, Blighttown, New Londo, Valley of Drakes is one of the best examples of level design ever (looking at them as a whole, individually most areas are pretty meh from a design standpoint).
>>337013345
It thinks that DaS 2's levels weren't shitty tunnels
>>337012596
Updated this map
What areas could be good for DLC?
I think below lothric, the forest further from cathedral of the deep, or the icy mountains surrounding the entire area could be cool.
>>337013345
1 and 3 are not that complex and 2 is not that simple >>337011573 is more accurate
>>337012827
Hybrid of 2/3
>>337009434
Every single Souls game is linear.
You know how a non-linear game looks like? Try Romancing Saga III.
>linearity is always bad and in all implementations
>>337013591
So you don't know what linear means?
>>337013482
Here.
Map is more accessible if you flip it, personally, considering that's how you first see everything.
>>337013682
you dumb shit, refer to >>337013485
>>337013497
more like 1 and 3
>>337009174
The same people who complain that Souls games aren't "linear" enough probably would have preferred the series to take an open world approach.
You are all shitters.
>>337013856
Bloodborne is pretty linear. 1 isn't at all
>>337009174
seems pretty accurate to me, though that pic is far too generous to DaS1 / DaS3
Which game has this one?
>>337013692
>OOOO I can take THIS hallway, instead of THAT hallway!
>So much FREEDOM!
>>337013990
Gran Turismo?
>>337013990__________LOL___
>>337014021
Yep, you have no idea what linear means
>Linear is bad
Probably the worst popular opinion /v/ has.
But I agree DS2 was dumb.
>>337013382
>The only things hidden and hard to find in Das1 were optional and designed to be hidden and hard to find.
the hardest thing to find in DaS1 was ash lake because it was hidden behind 2 secret doors. if you were playing online, this was still pretty easy to find since messages would be everywhere explicitly telling you about the secret doors.archdragon peak in DaS3 is WAY more hidden than that, since using a gesture at a fairly random spot in a previous linear area is a hilariously obscure way to get there.
>>337009174
>>337014142
>I can kill THIS boss before THAT boss!
>So much open ended gameplay!
lol, ok.
>>337011573
>DS2's map looks like a tree
DEEPEST LORE
>>337014262
Is this bait?
Because DeS is a tutorial followed by 5 linear paths. Out of all the games it probably has the choice in what order you do stuff in.
>>337013990
The game of loss
>>337014329
You're actually just listing ways in which the games are non-linear, amazing
>>337009789
>level has start point and end point
wow fuck this linear trash
>>337014262
Demons souls is actually the most open of all the games though.
Not that it makes it better for that reason.
>>337009789
> Or most of blighttown
How is Blightown linear?
>still pushing the "dark souls 2 is better meme"
Stop. You are embarrassing yourself.
>>337013856
None of the games are as open as the first game. Bloodborne and DaS3 both have some pretty apparent similarities in their level design, which is largely linear with some alternate paths that mostly end in dead ends. Pretty much the sole exception is the forest looping back around to the clinic.
>>337014523
That's stupid, anon. It's not open at all.
If anything it's the most linear.
Still my favorite though.
>>337014523
This, besides the opening in 1-1 you are open to go to any other archstone
>>337014197
It's only hard to find because you get the gesture a decent bit later
I immediately noticed that the dragon man was facing the buildings in the cliffs (which I noticed in AL) but I still missed it
>>337009648
Wait. I don't understand DS2, then. What's the X?
>>337014197
>get to that part of Irithyll dungeon
>see broken apart dragonman sitting there looking off in the distance
>"time for gesture" written next to him
>try all my gestures, get nothing
>find gesture later on
>"remember!" or something like that written right in front of it
thank you message system
>>337014724
>demons using that pic
>each world connects to another
nah its more like
>>337014523
>>337013591
this
>>337014965
It's more that you have the freedom to jump to different worlds anytime you want. Whether they connect or not is irrelevant.
>>337014965
The point is to map out how you can progress. Those connecting paths aren't meant to imply that the areas literally connect, but that you can go back and forth between them on a whim. If you want to get really pedantic, all of the areas in Demon's Souls are directly connected through the Nexus. It's not much different from the teleporting you have to do to get from Undead Asylum to Firelink, or Sen's to Anor Londo, or to the painted world, or the kiln.
>>337014708
you are free to do any world you want after 1-1
you could do something like 4-1, 4-2, 3-1, 2-1, 3-2, 3-3, 5-1, 4-3, 5-2, 1-2, 1-3, 5-3, 2-2, 2-3, 1-4
while in darksouls you will always have to do the 2 bells, sens and anor londo before you can go after any of the lord souls except 4kings
>>337013482
Firelink Shrine/Untended Graves are on the other side of the map. They are to the upper left of Lothric Castle.
Consumed Kings Garden is between Lothric Castle and Grand Archives. It's directly unter the two bridges between them.
Smouldering Lake is directly beneath the water portion in Irithyll. You can see the bridge connecting Irithyll and the Dungeon from the pathway leading up to the ballista.
>>337009174
Why should a game linear or not matter.
I dont see the world or more connected being open world going to do anything but make the game give you sever ass beatings.
If the worlds open and you can fight any bosses then youll get lost and get wrecked simply by enemies you shouldnt be fighting.
Linearity isnt a bad thing. Its only bad if its kill a bunch of mooks then go kill the mook boss and rinse and repeat
>>337013990
Bloodborne, in more ways than one
>Dark Souls 1
>each area is a straight corridor that's impossible to get lost in with very few alternate routes
>people call it non-linear because each area for the first 1/3 of the game can be backtracked from
>Dark Souls 3
>each area in itself is completely non-linear and easy to get lost in with many alternate routes and hidden areas
>people hate it because there's no shortcut allowing them to walk directly from High Wall of Lothric to Irithyll
Compare areas like Undead Burg or Undead Parish with Undead Settlement or High Wall of Lothric if you don't believe it.
When will you faggots realize area interconnectivity doesn't matter for shit except autism and that 3 actually has the best level design of the series to date?
>>337015183
In a narrowbass hallway or something similiar no exploration.
Dark Souls 3 reminded me of MG
>>337015230
I got lost plenty in DS1
>>337015183
>More exploration
>Better enemy placement
>More interesting places to see
>Curbs any autism about retarded world design
>Having to figure out the world as a slight puzzle is more fun than going down straight hallways all the time
It's not rocket science you sperg.
>>337015316
you're just retarded
>>337015183
In a game that's about exploration and discovery, linearity would obviously be a bad thing
>>337015369
;_;
>>337014724
>Demon's soul is full of blinking gray dots
I don't understand.
>>337015230
Undead Settlement is a pretty complex area, but High Wall of Lothric only seems like a big area because of how much untraversable space you can see. The area itself is pretty small.
![zHTDM3z[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Bs8j2js.jpg "zHTDM3z[1].png")
>>337015146
Fuck, I meant upper right.
You can even see its location in this early map.
>>337015417
DeS is so powerful it fucked up your eyesight.
>>337015417
optical illusion
>>337012225
this would make actual more sense if the trip wasn't seamless or there were load screens, like in Borderlands 2 where you are in the tundra three horns valley, then go through a gate to end up in a different biome like the Dust because there was a load screen separating it and dialogue explaining that the trip took a few hours.
the fact that you can seamlessly walk the entire game kind of shoots this down in DS2. the fact that apologist fans say it takes you all over the continent makes less sense considering you literally take an elevator from the top of a tower into a volcano castle. the fact that they are in different spots makes the map even less credible because one is on top of the other.
it's the same thing where Heides tower of flame is a lot further in the distance than you actually walk through that tiny cave to get to it and when you complete it you take an elevator down to well below sea level and somehow come out in a cove. Dark Souls IIs map simply doesn't work like 1 and 3's do where you can extract the collision data to create a 3d map of it. Drangleic is clearly just a bunch of unrelated areas copy pasted together with no real sense of cohesion.
>>337015230
it bugs me that you can fight dancer and dragonslayer armor early but you can't actually get inside the archives without killing 3 lords of cinder
and that no matter what path you try to take the first lord of cinder you kill will always be abyss watchers because you can't get to the other two without going through the catacombs
at least dark souls 1 (and 2) let you pick which of the 4 major bosses you wanted to kill first, dark souls 3 just feels like a bunch of dead ends
>>337009876
people only think of the undead burg/parish/lower undead berg connections, but forget the second half of the game after the lord vessel is full of dead ends.
>>337015230
Agreed.
People need to go back and play DAS1 it isnt even 5 years old and there acting if its acient. Even when released the game had clunky mechanics.
DAS3 each level was beatiful and felt good to explore and finding hidden paths were fun. Irthyll valley in order to to get to pontiff you had to go up then down then up. It wasnt a straight b line to boss filled with enemies.
And most parts of the game were similiar.
In my opinion, Demons had the best level design. Going faux open world was a bad call
>>337015605
Irithyll is extremely linear.
>>337015605
So if I find a few parts in DaS where you had to "go up then down then up", would that change your mind? What a horrible argument
>>337015316
The only way you could get lost in Dark Souls 1 was if you ended up in The Catacombs before acquiring the Lordvessel.
>>337011693
Level design != world design.
Now take your (You) and leave.
>>337015367
Enemy placements in dark souls 3 was bullshit you know it. Swarm tacitics.
Btw most people would play Dark Souls 3 Open World eddition fight some end game boss by mistake and then delete the game.
This way the game feels beatable to the people who actually bought the gamen and it doesnt have a filter boss like Bloodborne and Papa G.
Dark Souls 3 is about the game anyone can beat if you try or summon enough.
Even the level design isnt that hard to figure out
>>337015567
Finding out I couldn't open the Grand Archives after suffering through Dancer and Dragonslayer Armour at a low SL was what put me out from doing more playthroughs immediately.
>>337009434
>linear is bad meme
Stop posting anytime
>>337015692
Fucking this. Everything went to shit ever since miyazaki devised his little firelink-parish elevator chute in DaS and impressed everyone with silly shortcuts.
>>337015979
Did you forget that DeS was full of shortcuts too? You opened a shortcut in 1-1, is the game shit now?
>>337015843
Everyone knows that linearity is a good thing a lot of games, but souls games are supposed to be about exploration
>>337015383
>In a game that's about exploration and discovery
That's completely wrong. You think any hardcore fans and people who spent 200+ hours on any of these games were doing exploration and discovery most of the time? No, that's only on your first playthrough.
The reason people play so much is because they like the combat, weapon and character building system, and want to try various things in either PvP or PvE, from using the most OP "one-shot-a-boss" combos, to extreme challenge runs. That+s the real core of the game, not exploring the same level for the 20th time.
>>337015567
The worst of it all is that it's simply unnecessary. From a difficulty point of view I think the knight enemies in Lothric Castle are far harder than the normal enemies in the Grand Archives.
Storywise the order you kill the Lords in doesn't matter at all. There are pretty much no sidequests in this part of the map anyway so this shouldn't matter as well.
Worst of all is the way they did it. If you'd find Gotthard's corpse with the key in Gwynevere's old chamber for example it would still be a needless barrier but at least that would make kind of sense.
But now you just have a corpse magically appearing five meters in front of the door the key he carries unlocks.
>>337010412
How old were you when you grew out of your "anime" phase?
>>337016410
>No, that's only on your first playthrough
So you admit that the games are about exploration. You could apply your shit argument to any game that is supposed to be about exploration. You may as well say "Metroid isn't about exploration or finding secrets because you would already know where everything is on your second run!".
>>337010412
15 year old detected
They're all pretty linear they all have a specific path you need to take. Try going down to new londo to fight the 4 kings first thing guaranteed you cant do it. Any game that requires an item or specific type of weapon to kill any enemy is linear. The most non linear souls game is des simply because you can do it all from the start.
>>337013721
Is that londor that is marked on the pic?Now i remembered that place after seeing this, since i carefully inspected the whole area when i first got there after defeating Vordt.
>>337010412
You never outgrow Souls.
>>337016501
You never outgrow anime.
Both are addictions.
>>337016787
Do you know that level 1 runs are a thing?
>>337013721
top left is another settlement in the distance.
>>337015781
I did do that. I got lost in the Darkroot Garden and in the Basin too
Got lost In blighttown and the depths too
>>337016905
No clue. Don't go anywhere near it and can't see it from Archdragon Peak. Not sure what area or any relevance it has beyond being visible from that point.
>>337010575
MOON ON THE LOOSE
>>337016957
Go down to the four kings from the very start and try it. Its impossible to beat. You'd know why this is if you played the game
>>337016905
>>337016974
Edited for locations
>>337009174
Roll roll attack
>>337017249
If you can consistently avoid damage, it's not impossible
>>337017249
You can't because you need the Covenant of Artorias :^)
>>337017276
Btw now that i've noticed Archdragon Peak is in ruins when you see it from that perspective.Just like how the Lohtric Castle is under-construction when you see it from there?Does that mean we really go back in time to visit Archdragon Peak?
>Wolf Ring in the game boosts poise
>Poise is turned off
>>337017373
You die if you don't have the ring of artorias which rquires you to beat sif which requires you to make it into darkroot garden which if you didnt take the master key requires you to beat tauras demon thats pretty linear.
>>337017610
No. The models are not absolutely accurate in terms of detail and some proportions. Archdragon Peak is still ruined/patched up if you're there. It just does not look like these old greek sites that only have columns left.
>>337017249
is this b8?
>>337017804
>old greek
Byzantine, you mean.
![Dark-Souls-Map-1940x1931[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/7wPmDg4.jpg "Dark-Souls-Map-1940x1931[1].png")
>>337015781
>The only way you could get lost in Dark Souls 1 was if you ended up in The Catacombs before acquiring the Lordvessel.
nah, I got lost plenty after failing to read the description on the depths key (I thought it was the key to something in the parish and forgot about it). cleared entire forest, new londo and catacombs before I got stuck again and started to fight myself through the valley of drakes directly to blight town.
I don't even remember if I visited depths in the first place on my first run.
>>337017645
>if you didnt take the master key requires you to beat tauras demon
Nope. New Londo Ruins -> Valley Of Drakes path available at any time. And closed doors and keys doesn't makes game linear.
>>337017804
I dont think its a coincidence since the bridge in AP is nearly collapsed in the overworld view.Where as in the real model we see it completely in shape other except for a few deformed buildings.It's also weird how we can only see the walls of Lohtric in AP.Archives and the Castle isnt there at all.
>>337017645
what you described is virtually the opposite of linear because you have multiple options at the start of the game, especially if you go with the master key:
1) "normal route" (burg > parish > depths > blighttown > etc)
2) straight to blighttown through valley of drakes with master key
3) straight to parish through valley of drakes with master key
4) catacombs first to get rite of fire (pointless but possible)
5) master key via havel's tower > forest > sif > 4 kings (what you are describing as "linear")
6) like you said, you could also advance to sif "normally", get the ring, and then kill 4 kings before even getting the lordvessel
i could go on like this for a while, as long as you know the steps, you can take on the game in a lot of different sequences. the game is far from linear.
>>337018029
You need the master key for that path dummy.
>JESUS CHRIST LINEARITY IS SO BAD
>WHERE'S MY OPEN WORLD
>PLS I NEED MY WORTHLESS RADIANT QUESTS
>>337018116
Wrong. You can get out through the floodgate.
>>337014472
And I'm pointing out that this minor illusion of choice, though retardedly simple and unimaginative, is apparently enough to entertain fags like you.
As long as it's enough for easily entertained retards like you, the rest of us will keep getting these on-rails adventure games.
Thanks.
>>337018281
Shit forgot about that guess you're right.
>>337013990
I think I legit have brain cancer, I see it before I even know if it's all there or not. It's burned into my brain
>>337018346
You've already explained why the game isn't "on-rails" so I don't have to do anything, thanks
>>337018364
even if that werent true, i dont see why the master key prevents it from being non-linear. if anything that only opens more options.
>>337016501
15.
>>337018364
So did I at first, because I never use it that way once it's open. All it does is make me wish I could just forget all about DS and play it for the first time once more. I already know too much about DS 3 too.
>>337018468
So, the fact that you get TWO doors to choose from, even though they lead exactly to the same room is enough "choice" for you?
Thanks. You're the reason we get all these sub-par games.
>>337018696
you can go back to your faggy TES / panty quest titles if you want little buddy
>>337018696
>So, the fact that you get TWO doors to choose from, even though they lead exactly to the same room is enough "choice" for you?
No? Read this >>337018089 and your own posts
>>337015839
>Souls 3
What? I'm talking about Souls 1.
>>337009174
>use CE
>unlock all bonfires from get-go
>play in whatever order you like
>feels kinda like DkS / DnS
MacGyver some fun out of it, faggets
So we can all agree
World Design: DaS1 > DeS => DaS3 > Slight Hill of Rubble
Level Design: DaS3 > DaS1 > DeS = DaS2
>>337014486
>level has a start point and end point and only one path
Stay salty, soulsfriend.
>>337018923
I don't think that guy knows English too well
>>337019070
World Design: DaS1 > DaS3 > DaS 2 > DeS
Level Design: DaS1 = DaS3 > DeS >>>> DaS 2
>>337010575
>>337009174
>>337011573
>>337012338
i'm going to need a more detailed plan than that, it's confusing
>>337013682
Linearity is always bad you gap tooth cock sucking faggot
>>337019330
Putting the game where the impetus for 60-80% of it is a pile of rocks I could have climbed in kindergarten
>>337018818
lol, ok.
>>337019575
Go on and try to explain why
>>337019330
>>337019649
*Above anything, ever
>>337019649
But it's a magic pile of rocks, you just don't get the lore, idiot
>>337015605
>DAS3 each level was beatiful and felt good to explore and finding hidden paths were fun
Same could be said about any other souls game.
>>337016410
335 hours on pc and 400+ hours on PS3
You are full of shit. Exploration and discovery is the best part of the games, second comes the combat.
wew DS1 is so great you can go everywhere right from the start, like
catacombs up to the piss fog,
or new londo up to the 4k hole
or uh the single path you're actually supposed to take
>>337016728
>So you admit that the games are about exploration.
No, they're about character building and combat.
>You could apply your shit argument to any game that is supposed to be about exploration
No you couldn't. Try playing Nethack.
>>337019815
>Same could be said about any other souls game.
Except for the one with all the one way drops.
>>337012732
They didn't need to because you can port from the beginning of the game.
In dark souls 1 you didn't get the lord vessel until end game.
>>337019815
Isn't it a bit too harsh to pretend as though DaS 2 doesn't exist?
>>337016225
No they fucking aren't. At all.
First half of DaS1 > DaS3 > Second half of DaS1
No idea where 2 fits in, but y'all are giving 3 a lot more shit than it deserves honestly
>>337020292
>No idea where 2 fits in
It stands above the rabble
>>337020210
Although DaS2 does not hold up to the others (without dlc that is), exploring is still the reason why I play it.
>>337017643
>There's Wolf ring +1 and +2
>>337020062
>No, they're about character building and combat.
Prove that. You said before that the games were about exploration on a first run. Why do you think From has designed the game so that we would only get the intended experience after we finished the first playthrough? You're ridiculous
>>337020292
DaS 3 is pretty forgettable desu. At least it wasn't plain shit like 2.
>>337020234
Yes they fucking are. Totally.
>>337015145
That doesn't make it open at all. Games with hubs have very linear levels, and Demon's Souls is no exception.
>>337015843
Linearity is bad for a series which was good specifically because of its non-linear design which made exploration rewarding. What the fuck else would you play the game for? The easy bosses that take up a tiny chunk of play time? The combat which is not only repetitive and simplistic at its core but also absolutely ruined by shitty encounter design?
>>337020580
>you have 5 equally viable paths open to you at the start of the game, but the game is not open at all
Ah, okay
>>337019971
>undead burg
>catacombs
>straight to blighttown via valley of drakes
>burg > forest > sif, or burg > forest > parish
>new londo / 4 kings
>new londo > forest
etc etc
>Goddammit, the developers ACTUALLY expect the players to experience the content?! The player should have the choice TO NOT PLAY THE GAME AT ALL
>>337014708
Christ this has to be fucking bait
>>337020753
I play for PvP desu
>>337017610
Archdragon Peak is a dreamworld/meditation pipe dream you have while doing the way of the dragon gesture. The sun there is normal and not eclipsed/bleeding, just as it is in Firelink. Both exist "outside" Lothric. The actual "present" day shrine is the deserted one that takes you to the Kiln.
>>337020846
DeS is a hub game with linear levels. Sorry, you're just gonna have to stop replying, you will be wrong no matter what.
>>337020485
>You said before that the games were about exploration on a first run.
So is every game ever if you're playing it blindly. That's not an argument about what the game is supposed to be about. A 5 minute long flash game is about exploration, if exploration by your retarded standards means discovering new things in a game.
>Why do you think From has designed the game so that we would only get the intended experience after we finished the first playthrough?
Why would From design linear games with small levels and only a handful of secrets if the games were all about exploration and discovery? Maybe because they actually aren't.
>>337020881
No, the game should've been set in an open field in which enemies are wandering around. That way, we would've actually had some choice on where to go instead being forced down hallways
I play only one playthrough so I really don't give a fuck if it's linear or not
>>337009174
This image is incredibly incorrect
>>337020846
>Pick which of these 5 straight lines you would like to do first
>Open
Uhuh, okay
>>337021081
Explain.
>>337020753
Only one that wasnt linear was demons souls and it had the worst progression in the series. Only part you can sequence break in dark souls 1 is the first areas, the rest is pretty linear.
>>337021030
He was just saying it was open, and it is. Time to log off for today friend
>>337021120
Yes, being able to pick between 5 paths does make a game open
>>337020881
>>undead burg
wow the path you're supposed to take
>>catacombs
wow nothing to do there
>>straight to blighttown via valley of drakes
wow enjoy your locked door
>>burg > forest > sif, or burg > forest > parish
wow you can either go to the forest boss or not
>>new londo / 4 kings
wow no covenant ring, might as well be yellow piss blocking the path
>>new londo > forest
wow irrelevant detour to go where you're supposed to
you guys are dumb as fuck
dark souls 1 first part was linear, then it gave you the choice to go in 4 separate directions
dark souls 2 starts with 4 separate directions, then gives you a linear path
bloodborne was linear as fuck
dark souls 3 have a linear path with some branches where there is either a boss or an item you need later
all games had secret pointless optional zones that look like in-game DLCs
>>337021152
Yes, that's part of the reason why the post-Sen's Fortress areas aren't held in very high regard. Also the early areas still make up a pretty huge chunk of the game. You'd want the sequels to build on that and not fuck up the late game due to time constraints, but instead what you get is really bland linear progression with warping.
DS2 is by default more open because you can warp anywhere right from the start AND have multiple paths THAT ACTUALLY ALL LEAD TO PROGRESS you can take.
>>337009174
It's just like one of my black and white Japanese Dark Horse comics!
>>337021041
>So is every game ever if you're playing it blindly.
So you don't know the difference between progressing down a linear path and actual exploration?
>Why would From design linear games
They didn't
>small levels
Go check the wiki and read their guides on how to find all the loot in each area
>Maybe because they actually aren't.
They incentivise exploration by designing levels with branching paths that have rewards at the end of them. You are rewarded for exploring each area. Is that simple enough for you?
>>337021214
No, it doesn't
You don't get any choice except the order in which you would like to go in a straight line
That's not openness, that's linearity disguised by choice
>>337016225
>if it's linear there can be no sense of exploration
U wot now?
>>337021283
>the game should have no objectives, there should just be a blank, featureless grid that goes into infinite with procedurally generated enemies
how does one become such a faggot
>people taking into account the warps
No shit you could add a line that links all the paths together.
If we're strictly talking about level design, as in going from point A to point B (and in DS2's case, going from A to B, then A to C, then A to D, etc.), OP's pic is pretty accurate.
>>337021134
What does the dead ends mean? Let's take Dark Souls 2 as example? Are those the four souls you have to get to finish the game? They they won't really be dead ends at all.
It should look something like this, since all four paths are required and you need to cross them like a tree fo possibilities
I have never seen so many post that do not understand what the word linear means.
>>337009174
haha I forgot if one person does something that means everyone who likes the same thing also does that thing
>>337021575
You won't be exploring then, you'll be progressing down a set path
>>337014724
>demon's souls is an optical illusion
>>337021619
>Mass effect 3/ Life is strange/telltale games.jpeg
>>337021317
the first half of dark souls wasn't linear, especially if you chose the master key
and the map design basically made it like a big circle where you could easily go between different areas
>>337021529
>that's linearity disguised by choice
Our life is linearity disguised by choice.
>>337021529
Yes, it is
You get to decide except the order in which you would like to play the levels
That's openness, not linearity since you aren't being forced down one path
>>337021619
Dead ends in this case would be areas that do not connect with other areas in the world but instead force you to warp out of them. Dark Souls 3 has a big problem with this for seemingly no good reason. Dark Souls 2 makes a bit more sense because how much you're branching out in the world.
>>337021518
>They incentivise exploration by designing levels with branching paths that have rewards at the end of them.
They have extremely small levels with 2-3 paths at best, that usually loop on each other through shortcuts. There were RPGs from the 80s with way more exploration than that.
>You are rewarded for exploring each area.
90% of "rewards" for your exploration is something like a shitty ring that you'll never use or a soul item that might save you 20 seconds of farming.
>>337020881
DS2 actually blows DS1 completely out of the water in terms of paths you can take by opting to buy the cat ring or pay licia early on
Every early area in DS2 can have completely different difficulty depending on your character build and incentivises a different approach
Going to New Londo is pointless, and the catacombs are a chore with any starting class except cleric or unless you know of the cliff jumps
DS3 gets really boring in terms of replayability because there is one single path you take every time, any deviation and you break almost all NPC quests
Interconnectivity does not prevent linearity, and vice versa. It's a matter of enemies, builds and rewards
>>337016225
>souls games are supposed to be about exploration
Are you dumb as fuck?
what a stupid thread
you can't sum up the "linearity" of a 3D game with 2D lines and dots.
Demon's Souls isn't linear. From the Hub, you have the option to go to 5 different archstones and complete the various segments in any order. The individual segments themselves succeed each other in a linear fashion but each segment is a 3D fucking environment with branching paths (but not all of them). Latria isn't a fucking straight line. But the dragon bridge in Boletaria 1-2 was (but even that had a second layer you could explore).
Dark Souls similarly has options at the start but they ultimately end in dead ends until you get Lord Vessel. Only reason you have to go to Catacombs at the start is Rite of Kindling and then you're bottlenecked till you get LV. No point in going to New Londo until you kill Sif. Master Key will let you skip most of Depths and Blighttown which ironically are some of the two most non-linear areas. After Lord Vessel you have options of going back to those dead ends to go through relatively linear areas. However even the Archives isn't a straight, you have things to explore.
Dark Souls 2 has very linear areas. Heide's Tower is a straight line. Aldia's Keep, the Dragonshrine shit, straight lines. Black gulch, straight line. Shrine of Amana, straight line. etc etc. There's some areas that have depth to them. Mainly the start of the game (Forest of Giants and Bastille) and the DLCs were all very good. There is barely any shortcuts in the game and some of them don't even fucking make sense (the tree you kick down in Huntsman's that serves no fucking purpose).
Dark Souls 3 has a linear structure however the levels themselves are not straight lines. There's branching paths and shit to explore. Cathedral of the Deep is a highlight with lots of layers and meaningful shortcuts. In fact, all the shortcuts in this game are rewarding and save tedium, something DaS2 failed to grasp.
Let this stupid linear meme die.
>>337022030
>Going to New Londo is pointless
You can drain it to either get the ember or get to Darkroot/Blighttown, even without the master key. If you choose to do Sif as your first boss you can even finish the entire area.
>>337009174
DaS1 should be DaS2 flipped around.
>>337022067
>No point in going to New Londo until you kill Sif.
Except for going to New Londo to reach Sif.
>>337020995
>>337017276
then explain this, lorefags
>>337021917
>90% of "rewards" for your exploration is something like a shitty ring that you'll never use or a soul item that might save you 20 seconds of farming.
You find the wolf ring and chloranthy ring by exploring, and you get the zweihander and estoc by exploring all 3 paths at the start of the game. Different things will be useful to different builds, and souls are always useful
>>337021829
>B-But there are 5 straight lines that means it's not linear because that means 1 straight line not 5
If I gave you a room with 5 doors and told you to pick them in numbers 1 to 5 and solve the puzzles inside would that mean your choice of doors was open? No it just gives you a choice of what part of the linear path to do when
>>337021825
Deep man, deep
>>337021815
the master key is a game breaker, you're never meant or explicitly gave the choice of doing quelaag first in your first playthrough
sure there is a lot of shortcuts everywhere, which is enjoyable for the first half without warping, but it's still gargoyles first
>>337022030
i agree with you, unlike the consensus on /v/ i really enjoyed DaS2 despite the glaring flaws like SM. it felt like the "biggest" game by a substantial margin and was the most fun to replay of the series since like you said, you can do a completely different playthrough each time.
the downside to that though is that the areas you choose to do "last" (of the lord souls) are always piss easy since the game felt balanced around letting the player go any direction first.
>>337022043
No, are you a stupid cunt?
>>337022067
you don't go through the majority of new londo, you literally enter it an exit. might as well say you go through new londo to get to blighttown than. not to mention all that shit requires the key
>>337022328
>If I gave you a room with 5 doors and told you to pick them in numbers 1 to 5 and solve the puzzles inside would that mean your choice of doors was open?
Yes. Are you retarded?
>>337022186
>4Kangz with a +5 weapon
Oh the horror
>>337022067
>In fact, all the shortcuts in this game would be rewarding and save tedium if they didn't spam bonfires every 10 feet so you'll never use half of the shortcuts unless you're a total scrub that dies all the time
FTFY
how about we stop sucking off the most poorly designed Souls game?
>>337015567
>but you can't actually get inside the archives without killing 3 lords of cinder
Are you serious? What keeps you from opening it?
>>337022475
How? You still have to go through every door, the order in which you do them is meaningless
>>337022067
There are no meaningful shortcuts in Dark Souls 3, they are used as glorified checkpoints before bosses and nothing else because there is no reason to travel the world in anything but the most straightforward fashion.
>>337011573
What about bloodboner?
>>337022543
but that's DaS2.
also are you telling me you didnt use any of shortcuts in cathedral? or upper lothric? or consumed king's garden? or irithyll? or the dungeon?
>>337022321
>You find the wolf ring and chloranthy ring by exploring, and you get the zweihander and estoc by exploring all 3 paths at the start of the game.
Going in a straight line down a linear path to pick up giant glowing shiny objects is the exact opposite of exploring.
>>337022620
Because you can choose what order to go through them, how are you not getting this?
>>337022680
It's same as DaS3, just way smaller.
Playing Dark Souls 3 made me respect 2 a lot more. I kid you not.
Did some of you also felt this way?
>>337019330
>DaS1
>Level design
>>337022721
>Going in a straight line down a linear path
You have no idea where those items are
>>337022620
>You still have to go through every door
Like taurus demon "door"? In DS1 you can entirely skip some "doors" without losing content of corresponding "rooms".
>>337022653
what the fuck does this mean. the point of a shortcut is to save time and make your current route a better checkpoint. How is it any different from any shortcut das1 had? you saying you didn't open that gate to capra demons from the burg bonfire cause it would have given you a glorified checkpoint? so are you arguing for NO shortcuts? what the fuck are you fags even saying
>>337011298
>all penultimate
do you even know what penultimate means?
>>337022782
Quality post
>>337022775
Yeah, DSII is superior in its location variety, pvp, animations, build variety, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.
>>337022620
You can skip 4 bosses and 4 areas completely in Dark Souls 1. As in, most of the first half is entirely skippable or done in almost any order you wish.
>>337022653
theres no point in traversing the world in any of the souls games after going through it once and picking up the items unless youre grinding
i dont even know what people here are arguing anymore
