Is there a single game with a higher skill ceiling than CSGO?
>>336799213
Brood war
most fighting games
Battlefield something
>>336799213
Counter-Strike 1.6
>>336799213
if the game has such a low skill ceiling why aren't you a professional playing for Fnatic right now?
>>336799213
every other game
checkers
>>336799395
>if cleaning toilets doesn't require education and anyone could do it, why aren't you cleaning toilets for a living right now?
Mobas on high level, no really.
>Gotta learn and remember 4 skills of 100+ chams
>Learn, Create and remember hundreds of team comps
>Know what to build on which champ
>who counter who
>Every game is different
literally any rhythm game and most fighting games
>>336800208
he means genres that aren't dead
>>336800262
could you quote him where he said that?
>>336799472
Cleaning toilets won't earn you a 6 figure salary from competing with other toilet cleaners worldwide
>>336799476
A-ASSFAGGOTS!!!11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8JBDyFC9BE
It took seven years for anyone in the world to beat it
>>336800364
He said "is there" which is present tense.
>>336799476
>champ
>obviously talking about LoL
>actually thinking that game has a high skill cap
wew
>>336800686
yes, in fact there is, for example osu! has a very active userbase, that game includes mania mode which is a well-known traditional rhythm game that has a way higher skillcap than CS:GO
there are 15k players online at any given time so its quite active
Melee
>>336799395
Because I don't want to cheat.
>>336799213
Yeah, Overwatch.
Quake
>>336800680
Yeah but isn't that just because games like that create a single path of survival and you have to follow it pixel-precisely? Isn't that mainly an exercise in memorisation?
Not trying to troll, I'm not a big schmup player.
>>336800910
What is this webm trying to tell me?
any rhythm game desu
>>336800860
>I haven't played LoL past level 10: the post
>>336801050
How his crosshair stops on a player through the wall I guess
>>336800910
Was this a lan or online?
>>336801018
Well for that mode which is basically a boss rush, kind of, but the regular modes are less so. They're all about optimizing routes and finding new better ways to do things, shmups that have been out for decades are still having world records beaten.
A good shmup also has a decent amount of RNG, so you have to stay on your feet to a degree without it ever just being a cheap death.
>>336801050
See how the crosshair "sticks' to the middle guy's head even though he can't see him.
Its apparently a tell of aimbot , but its kinda farfetched imo
>>336801329
nah that's def an aimbot
has he been banned? because shit like that usually gets caught by the CSGO mods
>>336801225
Implying implications that LoL out of all fucking games has a high skill cap.
Nigger u w0t m8?
Seriously LoL is one of the most casual games in the whole "esport" shit thing , and the most casual of MOBA's.
>>336800374
Cleaning toilets also won't make you into a walking meme who's being forced to shill shitty "gamer gear" made by your sponsors to 13 year olds.
Also salary is irrelevant when your "career" is completely dependent on the lifecycle of a single game, and you're almost guaranteed to be without a job in 4-5 years from now.
>>336800910
It took me forever to unsee the mousesports logo as a disappointed ninja looking down.
>>336799476
everything you've just described could be done with a computer from the 70s.
>>336801225
Wow great argument
I've been playing LoL since the end of season 1 and finally 100% called it quits after the Malz rework. The game is extremely formulaic and shallow. It's fairly beginner unfriendly which gives it the illusion of having depth and high skill cap, but it has very little to it at even a medium to high level compared to other similar kinds of "esportsy" games. You have to use the same team comp, lane layout, and win strategy every fucking game, the matchmaking even completely forces it now.
It's a game sitting in this weird purgatory where there isn't much to the mechanical element like there would be in a shooter or something, and there isn't much to the strategy element like there would be in Dota or an RTS or something.
>>336801526
If a toilet cleaner can survive with a 10k salary throughout his lifetime, a pro gaymer can survive for the rest of his life with a 150k salary throughout 5 years
>>336801050
It's an undetectable aimbot pros use to 'sense' people through walls.
Flusha retired because people caught him using it during a tournament.
There are various methods that have been used to sneak these into tournaments. Injecting the payload in the firmware of a wireless mouse dongle or using Steam Workshop for a one-click install remotely are a couple examples.
>>336801329
Not farfetched at all
The way it snaps to the player instead of a fluid motion across the door tells it all
>>336799371
>1.6
>skill
cs went to shit around 1.5 or 1.3 or something. When ever they made the head hitboxes bigger than a pixel and toned down the recoil. It used to require you to single shot tap a headshot with a rifle or else basically your recoil was never going to reset before the person with the smg killed you
>>336801773
Why the fuck would anyone think they could get away with this when all ten players are being spectated by thousands?
>>336801329
>>336802042
Yep. The snap is the tell, you can see how is aim is all screwy afterwards as he attempts to play it off. He was probably expecting a lock on a different position. Nobody would move their mouse towards the middle of the wall after that, they would fix their crosshair to the right corner in case a T crossed.
>>336799213
I would like to think fighting games, specially KoF and guilty gear
more likely guilty gear, it's fucking insane how complicated it is
>counter strike
Is this 2006? Move on already
I think you vastly underestimate other games' skill ceilings and put CS on a pedestal. If you were really enthusiastic about games you could find a highly competitive community for tons of popular games. Humans have not come close to reaching the skill ceilings of most good video games. In some the top tier players have come close, like CS and Street Fighter 2.
YOU sitting there in the chair could easily get years if not decades of enjoyment out of any number of games today. Most shooters have a pretty good skill ceilings just because they're shooters, and make you point a cursor at moving targets and employ some sort of tactics to avoid getting cursors placed on you.
>>336802514
Because "humanized" aimbots are actually pretty easy to conceal most of the time.
>>336802514
Actually competent players that realize what's going on are silenced by shills and various retards that outnumber them. It's written off as "gamesense" even when players are getting constantly banned. Everyone on ranked hacks, valve doesn't give a shit since they can do banwaves and force the hackers to buy more copies of the game. Pro tournaments are a good way to laundry money and get ad revenue, no one cares who actually wins them. This is why only kids want to be progamers, after a point you realize the whole thing is just a huge scam.
>>336802294
And the nerfs to bhop to the point where it's usually not all that useful unless you just want to showboat. That's happened to all the CS games, bhop was accidentally kind of good then they nerf it and/or put good bhop behind svars not used in official events.
>>336803527
That's why games outside the big e-sports scene are actually better to play competitively, especially other FPSs compared to CSGO.
>>336803743
You actually want bunnyhopping to be widespread in Counter Strike?
>>336800680
That's because non-autists settle for beating a regular single loop or give up.
>>336804054
Why not? More is better.
>>336799476
>>Gotta learn and remember 4 skills of 100+ champs
Not hard.
>>Learn, Create and remember hundreds of team comps
No.
>>Know what to build on which champ
Cookie-cutter shit because LeL doesn't like varied builts
>>who counter who
You mean "Who's the best and second best when the best gets taken beforehand"
>>Every game is different
Not really no.
>>336804145
Because it doesn't suit the game at all, and it's clearly not how the game is intended to be played or balanced around at all.
Tennis for two
>>336804445
Just like how bunny hopping does not suit, was not balanced around or intended to be in Quake. Or every other game with bunny hopping. It was just another part of the casualization process Valve applied to CS over the years.
>people still think you can accurately determine aimbot through Valve's shitty demos system
>>336801526
>lifecycle of a single game, and you're almost guaranteed to be without a job in 4-5 years from now.
the game has been around for +15 years and some of the pro's from 1.6 are still the pro's of today.
>>336804969
>said the cheater before his VACation
>>336805105
if you're talking end-of-life 1.6 to current csgo you'd be right
but there's no pro's from 2004 and before
i mean you got outliers like taz but if you look at the current line-ups of so called 1.6 legend you'd see they "started" going pro around 2008-09
csgo overwhelming popularity is breeding a shitload of kids that will takeover the scene in 2-3 years just like it did before
i'm not here to undermine the current skills of proplayers but I don't think it's feasible for most people to maintain their peak for more than 10years
>>336805502
People tend to lose their reflexes as they get older.
Luck ceiling you mean?
>>336805663
not if you keep them up, well I guess if your like in your 60 you might start to slow down; but for the most part moving a mouse doesn't take that much muscle strength
>>336805663
i'm not sure that's the entire reason though, main reason why being a few players in the quake scene still being overly dominant even in their 30's and a few ms of increased reaction time isn't as detrimental to overall gamesense
i think you'd have to look at it the way a kid has to catch-up on the entire meta and then will have room to innovate and improve compared to current pros being throttled unconsciously by their ego
i mean I don't know, I think you'd have to compare the game to soccer in term of how the comp scene is shaping up due to it's popularity
other games with barely 10 000 players become stalled and marked as "solved" ( what happened to quake 3/live ) when there isn't new blood to innovate
>>336806227
>main reason why being a few players in the quake scene still being overly dominant even in their 30's
Well, Q3 scene is dead, effectively. It's not just the game, anyway, it's money. Valve are doing a smart thing by putting money in the tournaments.
>>336799213
Yup.
It's called Counter-Strike 1.6.
>>336806127
>muscle strength
>reflexes
why are you so fucking stupid?
>>336799213
This is bait, isn't it?
Look, I play CSGO all the time but it's not the best game in the world.
Unreal Tournament, Quake, IIDX, fucking Cave bullet hell games, goddamn Chess, probably all have higher skill ceilings than CSGO.
>>336802294
This is so ridiculously wrong, in regards to 1.6.
However, it's true that 1.5 had such issues. But it we're talking about 1.6 here, dipshit.
>>336806548
if you only knew how deep my wisdom was
>>336806510
1.6 has a lower skill ceiling than CSGO because it also had several recoil patterns chosen at random.
>>336806682
AK and m4 had static recoil patterns. Only a few rifles, which you would never use in a competitive scenario, had dynamic recoils.
Chivalry medieval warfare
>>336806756
That's wrong.
>>336806756
To further expand on this, 1.6 had a much higher skill ceiling- but it's obviously due to the core game being so old.
The higher amount of casuals in CS:GO isn't exactly helping either, but we're seeing progress on the pro scene now at least.
zonic (Coach, Astralis) announced that he "wasn't impressed" with the Pro's tactical knowledge when he wanted to start mTw again. And I totally agree.
>>336806983
It really didn't. 1.6 is essentially the same as CSGO, but CSGO has ONE recoil pattern per gun, giving it a higher skill ceiling. 1.6 had several recoil patterns for each gun chosen at random. And as you know, randomness applied to player actions kills the skill ceiling.
>>336806953
If you don't have a stacit pattern, it's because you're a dimwit who didn't properly set his net settings to accord with the server (or LAN host).
The AK has a static pattern that goes UP, RIGHT, LEFT. Period.
>>336806983
>zonic (Coach, Astralis) announced that he "wasn't impressed" with the Pro's tactical knowledge when he wanted to start mTw again. And I totally agree.
oh is that so? So why doesn't he teach the players his deep knowledge of the game then, or is he just being an old fart talking shit to feed his old ego?
>>336807139
Wrong. There are several recoil patterns which are chosen at random. This has always been the case.
>>336806918I agree, although comp is ded right now
>>336807220
Nope :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuOZ1_-4vdg
And btw, comparing a skill ceiling only to spray patterns is retarded
>>336806983
Why do you think he's a coach for Astralis?
>>336799213
press right mouse button so you can actually see where you aim
>>336807339
Your video just proved me right. Thanks.
CSGO is essentially the same as 1.6, the main difference, and the one that lowers the skill ceiling significantly is the several recoil patterns chosen at random in 1.6.
In 1.6, not only do you have to hope that spread rolls in your favor, but you also have to hope you're compensating for the correct recoil pattern.
>>336805198
>this much efford for cheating in a shooter
whats even the fun in this?
I used cheats in gta5 multiplayer but i wouldnt use it against someone else, thats just lame. I use it just to have fun with the entire server. Give everyone tanks or something
But pretending you are legit and then cheating is just beyond pathetic
>>336807757
some people have small weewees
>>336804969
I only mark guilty of aimbot when doing overwatch when it's stupidly obvious, like aimlock through walls, always aiming at feet with scout and getting headshots, instant flickshots from edge of screen, etc.
But yeah, 32 tick demos a shit for overwatch.
>>336799213
what happened in that webm? is the game rigged or what?
>>336807757
>cheating in GTAV
If you're one of those bros who spawns in jets and money for everyone you're a cool guy
In GTAV it's either hackers who help you out with missions by teleporting stuff for you, killing enemies, spawning in vehicles for you, or straight up assholes who just blow you up over and over again.
>>336807727
Doesn't having bullshit sprays technically force people to learn how to one-tap? Since you can't be certain that your spray will ever be good, then you have to make sure your first 2 shots are on people's heads.
Compare to CS:GO, where the preferred style is on perfect spray control at nearly all ranges except for very long ones. It's a different skill, but you could argue that 1.6 forces people to one-tap, which is potentially more "skilled" than in CS:GO, which doesn't punish missing your first shot as much.
Not the guy you're replying to.
>>336799213
1.6
>>336806983
why should I trust a guy coaching fucking Chokestralis
>>336799213
quake
always quake.
>>336802294
>1.5 or 1.3
I wish you hipster faggots would die
They were literally the same game with a few very minor changes
>>336808265
Forcing people to tap shot doesn't raise the skill ceiling. Doesn't matter anyway since there is RNG spread on every shot.
>>336808478
I guess if there wasn't RNG on the first shot, but RNG on every shot afterwards with bullshit sprays, then it'd be more skilled.
Scout confirmed most skill-based weapon in game.
>>336808575
But nah, it's not.
AWP is close, but it has a chance to spread to the right of the crosshair.
>>336799476
Everything you listed was memorization which could be accomplished with a cheat sheet of the current metagame. Try listing things that actually take skill.
>>336799395
fuck off sakurai, don't confuse the skill floor and the skill ceiling
>>336808713
>Scout has inaccuracy when scoped
Wait, what the fuck? I just looked up some tables and it's more inaccurate than the SG and AUG when scoped.
Volvo pls fix.
I guess I'm going to just learn to spraydown people with every weapon instead of tap shooting now.
Super Smash Brothers Melee
>>336809087
>Valve "Random Chance Makes Things More Interesting" Software
>>336809380
They should put in a 1% random chance to trip at any time like they did in Smash Brothers Brawl.
Counter Strike is designed in such a way as to have a very high skill floor, but a very low skill ceiling.
Once you get used to the fucking weird aiming mechanics, it's easy as piss. It's not a game of skill, it's a game of muscle memory. Add the likelihood of getting fucked over by RNG, and you have a game that shouldn't be as popular competitively as it is.
>>336799213
Of Outside studios
>>336806918
this
>>336799213
his reaction is pretty autistic desu. caring this much about hit detection in 2016 is retarded
>>336799213
in terms of genre difficulty
Fighting games>RTS>Rhythm games>Shmups
>>336809786
those graphics are pretty good can still see some tearing and jaggies though
>>336801050
Faggot is using wallhack and aimbot.
>no one give a shit about the game before skins
>peaks at 20k players for months
>add skins
>500k avg players
Is luring people in to play your shitty unbalanced game with skins a good way to make money?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqE-FXzx3Lo
real life combat
>>336810389
Well obviously, yes.
>>336810389
Where were you the past 10 years while casuals took over the industry?
I keep seeing advertisements for a channel that hosts e-sports while watching theNBA playoffsDoes anyone know the channel?
>>336801536
I don't see it.
>>336810626
>that awkward pause where they're too scared to hit each other
my sides
>>336810626
huh, there was a thread earlier, may have been on /tv/, about how plate armour wasnt as heavy and clumsy and knights were actually a lot more agile than popular culture presents, but these guys are pretty fuckinng slow and clumsy
>>336812357
I'm artistically challenged so I did my best, but it's still not quite right.
>>336811284
turner
>>336814323
Holy fuck.
>>336801526
>m-memes!
never change /v/
>>336806918
I never knew this game had a high skill ceiling.
Not saying you're wrong, but can I see some examples of this?
>>336815648
The point is practically every game has a higher skill ceiling than CSGO.
>>336812496
Early plate armor was about as clumsy as you would imagine it.
>>336799213
Heroes of the Storm
>>336799213
Try not using a custom crosshair.
>>336801225
>he thinks LoL takes skill
>>336799213
Yeah, every arena shooter ever.
>>336818614
yeah memorizing muscle reflexes needs skill
>>336819039
>memorizing muscle reflexes
The fuck does that even mean?
Noobz
>>336800892
The most true thing said in this thread.
Anything that's just memorazation (E.I. Single player games) does not have a high skill ceiling simply because it is limited where as multiplayer games will always go as far as human error allows. It literally cannot be played perfect.
Even pros in cs:go can beat people playing with hacks and cheats on a regular basis. That says volumes about the game's skill ceiling.
>>336799476
The only moba game with any depth of skill is dota
>>336799476
Is assfaggots worth checking out? I know nothing about it and why they call it assfaggots?
>>336820740
>Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides
You might lose your life to Dota so be careful
>>336820057
>>336820740
Literally google ASSFAGGOTS and you'll see why. It's an acronym for the general style of game.
It's worth checking out if you like the general style of top-down games that require some amount of teamwork, a deep knowledge of items/skills/abilities/classes, and if you like a meta that changes with balance every single update that you constantly have to be on top of.
Personally I hate them, but plenty of people love them, so check it out after watching some gameplay.
>>336807757
Does it make you mad?
Does it make your blood boil?
Does it makes you rage quit?
Does it get a reaction out of you?
Does it make you aggressive on the mic?
Does it give attention to the hacker?
That's why people hack to win, because they don't care and you do, so your reaction makes their dreams soaking wet.
>>336820740
If you check them out try dota 2 first. If it's too difficult to learn then go for league of legends. The reason is because in dota 2 you get everything for free, in league you have to grind.
>>336818207
Legit, not hacking just good.
>>336819039
That made absolutely zero sense.
>>336799213
troll thread
>>336800618
ASSFAGGOTS is not an insult, it's the abbreviation of the genre name.
>>336799213
>Is there a single game with a higher skill ceiling than CSGO?
In no particular order:
SF, KoF, and SC:BW.
>>336808096
Lag, something that is known to happen in every online game. Dunno why /v/ makes such a big deal about it happening in CS:GO. Shitposters gonna shitpost I guess.
>>336802514
Very hard to tell if these guys are just really fucking good or cheating. Also most pros dont need help with aim, and in a game like CS positioning and knowledge is 99% of winning, so wallhacks definitely give you an edge.
>>336822505
literally who
>>336799213
This:
https://cardgames.io/yahtzee/
Why was RNG bullshit on first shot introduce? I don't play CSGO.
>>336814323
oh fuck
>>336819871
Yeah
>>336823409
It's been in every version of CS.
>>336807727
AK had several recoil patterns that would be used after first 3 shots. At least according to one of my friends who used to play 1.6 competitively.
>>336824423
More or less. The problem is the RNG spread on all of those shots.
>>336800680
Shit looks like going outside in the rain and trying to dodge the drops.
>>336799213
Most arena shooters
>>336802294
Where the fuck is my riot shield valve?
>>336822827
Im gonna guess Street Fighter, King of Fighters and Starcraft: Brood war
>>336810626
rs 2016
>>336799213
>Is there a single game with a higher skill ceiling than CSGO?
>>336800910
For anyone wondering, the aimbot uses doorway corners and as soon as the player crossed "line of sight" with the corner of the doorway (had the doors not been there) he snapped to his head. That is the tell. If you watch these videos look for the way they work with corners and door ways.
>>336810236
>good
>all that fog to hide the ugly LOD models
>>336800876
>osu
>skill
>even considering it a rhythm game
It's not even considered a rhythm game in the rhythm game community. It's shitty with a shitty scoring system that makes no sense, it's only staying power is the large number/variety of maps and ease of access.
>>336803527
This.
Notice how there is always ban wave before/during/after 250,000 tournament and the game goes on 50% sale.
>>336827893
So even though osu! has a built in ITG/Stepmania clone it's not a rhythm game?
>>336799213
I want to touch his beard
>>336828031
>Starcraft has custom tower defense games built in so it's a tower defense game
I'm talking about osu! not it's badly done clones with awful support and dead playerbase you retarded fucking nigger.
>>336809786
I hope the next insurgency game is like this.
Id also like save the hostages in cages missions.
>>336828031
Osu! is the shittiest rhythm game in existence.
It's based not on accuracy, but on combo.
The "rhythm" section of it is smashing two keys back and forth to 8th note streams.
ITG, DDR, IIDX, SDVX, even fucking Jubeat are all better rhythm games than it.
>>336828786
I never said osu! was good.
>>336828990
It's also not a rhythm game.
I'll excuse myself back to /jp/ now.
