Was it a good game?
Yes. It's just hard for Trigger fans to get over because all their favorite characters are mostly bloodstains along your journey.I can see why having played Trigger after Cross though
>>336646816
Great game, bad sequel
>>336646816
If you ask /v/, it's an ok game.
If you ask /vr/, it's an abomination that should have never existed
Yea it is one of my favorites. I like both games, but this one I fell in love with.
Good game but you can't out do a classic like CT. Also the story line was so different it could have been a completely independent game with little change.
>>336646816
After years of avoiding it I finally gave it a shot.
Now its one of my favorite games of all time.
>>336647025
That's not really it. It's that the game really has nothing to do with trigger. Sure it tries to reference it but it makes it seem odd and confusing. It's a completely different world and lore. Are the demihumans suppose to be mystics? Why is Kid a clone of Schala other than to make that be a nod. Why are there 40 characters and i can only use 3 at a time with no easy way of switching. The game would have been better if it didn't put chrono trigger references at all. It's odd really. The dragons really were a better plot than the thing with Lavos.
It really feels like they were making another game and thought it wouldn't sell unless they called it a chrono trigger sequel. Which is odd since they just have to say "Squaresoft made this"
>>336647196
What? /vr/ fucking loves this game.
It had some damn stupid dialogue
>>336647524
Actually yea, wouldn't the dragon gods have made more sense to be an end boss than lavos?
>everyone hates this game for being a bad sequel
>throws Trigger characters out the window as if nothing
>all off screen too
>gives you a shit load of characters you won't even care for
>/v/ having to be contrarian about everything loves it
Never change, /v/.
>>336647692
Eh that was most JRPG's back then.
>>336646816
They really shouldn't have made it a sequel to Trigger considering they fucked up Trigger extremely hard, also there was a shit ton of characters for some reason
>>336646816
No, it will always remain inferior to its predecessor.
Why is she so perfect?
No.
>>336646816
Great game bad sequel.
>>336647914
Trigger fucked itself, they just didn't realize until writing Cross. Trigger was fucked by Marle being aware of being erased from time during the first trip to the past. The it's a bad sequel meme just comes from people who didn't really understand what was going on in Trigger.
I love it, but I wish it wasn't part of the Chrono series. It makes it impossible to really discuss without trigger fans going ape.
>>336647524
The idea is that the demi-humans and all the creatures of El Nido were actually creations of FATE and therefore didn't technically exist during Chrono Trigger.
It's a fantastic game and has one of the greatest soundtracks of all time.
This Trigger and Radiant Historia all have some similar themes and all feel very special.
>>336646816
No. Story was terrible and it was filled with obtuse bullshit designed to piss you off and make you buy guides.
Hope you read ahead of time to be a massive dick to the best girl in the game, otherwise you're permanently locked out of one of your best party members' final techs within the first ten minutes and stuck with fucking Korcha.
There were also like five plots going on at once and they were all completely stupid, it shat all over the characters and Trigger where it introduces Robo and then kills him immediately and explains how a joke character killed the rest of the cast off-screen, and had to explain basically the entire story in a half-hour text dump at the very end of the game through a narrative device that was completely unsubstantiated. They might as well have left the script on the beach.
It's one of the best JRPGs of the PSX era. I played it before Trigger though. I love both but Cross has much more complexity in terms of plot.
Some might condemn the plot in the same way people hate Evangelion or something.
Also: The soundtrack is one of the best in video games.
>>336649231
But you only get 1 chance to be rude to Harle
>>336648404
Triggers story was fine. It was lighthearted and didn't take itself all too seriously a majority of the time, so there's no need to get concerned about the time travel mechanics. They're there to serve the adventure.
Cross is what happens when you try to take a time travel plot seriously. It falls in on itself.
>>336647524
Because Balthasar.
If you have problems with CC's plot and think it just references CT then you're stupid. The game could easily have been stand alone if they really wanted but it also wouldn't have been the same game. Everything that happened was a result of time traveling. I mean the only stupid thing was Dinopolis.
>>336646816
All I know about the game is all the official artwork of that girl on the cover gives me multiple boners.
>>336649442
Fuck you cunt. Kid is best sheila, fair dinkum.
Nope. Great soundtrack, I liked the visual style, but the battle system really sucked ass
>>336646816
i love it. i played trigger first and can still enjoy both games for what they are. also getting glenn with the dual einlanzers is pretty legit
>>336649510
>It was lighthearted and didn't take itself all too seriously a majority of the time
Literally the only time it's lighthearted is at the very start in the fair and Ayla's party.
CC happens because 2300 isn't a shithole when Belthasar is sent there.
>>336649510
Cross barely has anything to do with time travel other than references. It's problem is that it shoe-horns a bunch of half-baked environmental and love themes into the story that don't end up mattering at all.
And yeah the whole Dinopolis thing was really dumb.
>>336649610
>being Kidfag
lol
Trigger itself is a good game but the tone of the story changes completely just before visiting 12,000bc for first time. Cross is pretty much in line with the Zeal part of Trigger
>>336649231
>and it was filled with obtuse bullshit designed to piss you off and make you buy guides.
How retarded are you?
>>336649572
That's the thing though, the entire story is Balthasar trying to save Schala from time shit and while I could forgive that terrible premise, the real problem is that it's obfuscated to the point where it gets relayed at the very end of the game by the ghosts of the killed-off-screen Trigger cast for no other reason than it wasn't relayed to the player in a way that made sense.
>>336649813
The "environmental" shit makes me so angry just thinking about it. And demonstrates a very good point, it's not just the bonkers overarching plot of Cross, it's the individual poorly written parts that drag everything down.
>>336648404
No, trigger was a good compact self contained story.
Cross was the writer for the radical dreamers jrpg throwing a passive agressive bitchfit and trying to throw Trigger under the bus while trying to play up the quite honestly inferior navel gazing garbage that was the Cross as the best thing since pantyless Japanese school girls.
>>336649442
why only one? I wanted to bully her a little more
>>336649885
Not him, but yeah back in 2000 without a guide the game could really get confusing as hell.
if you think that somehow its existence retroactively caused every existing copy of chrono trigger (and every person's memories of CT) to suddenly vanish, then no. otherwise, yes
the connections to CT were so clearly shorehorned in at the last minute it's easier to just think of them as not even being there
too many party members meant not enough character development, but
>candidate for best JRPG sountrack period
>actually good battle system
>gorgeous
>>336649572
The backstory with Balthasar and Chronopolis needed to bridge the two games is more dense than the plot of both games combined.
The amount of loops they jump through to justify the radically different settings is stupid and silly. Like they had ideas for three different gams, one about FATE and the time crash, one revisiting the plot of Radical Dreamers, and one about the Dragon Gods and El Nido triangle, and just decided to juggle all three of them. It's a mess.
>>336649794
What?
Chrono Trigger is Toriyama as fuck. The only times it tries to get heavy at all are a few scenes in the future and parts of Zeal.
The majority of the game is a shonen anime Dragon Ball adventure.
>>336649741
>tfw coordinating battle tactics to turn battlefield a specific color
>tfw it all comes together
>tfw enemy rekt
That folksy OST was great.
>>336649950
Cause unlike Kid, Harle won't take your shit for too long
>>336649916
>the real problem is that it's obfuscated to the point where it gets relayed at the very end of the game by the ghosts of the killed-off-screen Trigger cast for no other reason than it wasn't relayed to the player in a way that made sense.
It's actually all hinted at in various points through the game in world lore and exploring. Like if you go to that basement room in the library long before you're supposed to you can still see the Epoch. The infodump was a problem, but the information contained in it was already relayed to the player in other forms. They just decided to make it obvious for dumbasses.
>>336649342
>Some might condemn the plot in the same way people hate Evangelion or something.
The plot is needlessly convoluted and ultimately bloated for no other reason than to conceal its simplicity.
Cross' dimensional structure is all to serve that Square purpose of having character duality and combining two into one. Kingdom Hearts is a great example of what I'm talking about.
All references to Trigger aren't even necessary. The whole thing is obviously an IP they started to work on and then changed to suit as a Trigger sequel much later. The parallels between the titles are paper thin.
The game is helped immeasurably by the experience of its gameplay, graphics, and score because otherwise there isn't much there to digest.
It's really good and also the most beautiful playstation game.
>>336650112
>Chrono Trigger is Toriyama as fuck. The only times it tries to get heavy at all are a few scenes in the future and parts of Zeal.
There's goofy shit here and there sometimes but all of the plot is pretty heavy most of the time with humans at war with something and losing
>600 AD vs mystics
>2300 AD in general and robogenocide
>65m BC and dinosaurs
12000BC is ironically the only one without a War, but instead they're being led to destruction and there's a huge class imbalance of the non-mages being tossed into the frozen surface to survive. Yeah sure, ganbatte and all that but them niggas ain't livin well.
>>336646816
No, everything about the game is a clusterfuck. The story, the setting, the tone, the gameplay, everything.
Great soundtrack though.
It's okay. That's about it.
>>336650112
>Like they had ideas for three different gams, one about FATE and the time crash, one revisiting the plot of Radical Dreamers, and one about the Dragon Gods and El Nido triangle, and just decided to juggle all three of them. It's a mess.
Don't forget Dalton traveling through a time vortex and somehow turning a small port city into a major military empire and utterly destroying Guardia and probably killing your heroes.
I don't hate that they did something like that but I can't stand how it's all handwaved away.
Too many playable characters and most were bad so you never touched them
Tried too hard to be connected to trigger with everything after chronopolis
stupid environmentalist theme
too easy but that's all square games
good combat system that needed tweaks
liked the no levels thing except it could cause missed levels permanently if somebody was dead when the fight ends
>>336646816
No, in fact, I remember the disappointment I felt by the end of the first disc. Never finished it, lent it to my cousin, who then scratched one of the discs. Fuck you Ashley.
>>336646816
One of the best games. The best OST in a game. Yasunori Mitsuda is brilliant and it shines here. Gorgeous game with wonderful atmosphere.
>>336649342
The Evangelion comparison is quite apt, I feel like Square and JRPGS in general were heavily influenced by it in the late 90s. CC, Xenogears and even Final Fantasy VIII all have some of that EVA bullshit going on.
>>336650374
It never really dwells on the more dramatic elements of those plot threads though. It's usually just there as a backdrop.
Hell, you spend most of your time in 600 AD fighting Ozzie and his gang of bumbling idiot cult followers. Magus only makes his big entrance at the very end.
>>336650474
>Too many playable characters and most were bad so you never touched them
To this day I don't understand why CC is panned for this while Suikoden is praised for it. Even if only 70 of them fight, that's still usually 50 useless ass ones that aren't a main character or Flik
>>336650158
What makes you think that?
>>336650630
Because Suikoden's 108 characters are somehow more memorable and relevant than CC's 40.
>>336650663
Pearly Gates
>>336650215
It's a JRPG so obviously it isn't going to be Shakespeare, but the plot had some interesting musings and the NPC dialogues were usually fascinating. The game has a sensitive, poetic perspective on life and, yes, the script is bolstered tremendously by its visual style and soundtrack. I don't really care about its status as a sequel to Chrono Trigger, I think the comparisons are unfair and criticizing it for not continuing Trigger's plot doesn't have any validity.
Kingdom Hearts is shallow and corporate. I can accept you believing that Cross is a failure in the same vein as something like Xenogears but KH is Nomura-era pandering.
>>336650474
>except it could cause missed levels permanently if somebody was dead when the fight ends
They would get the missed stats on the next star level iirc. And more bonus stats in the battles just after the star they died on. Everyone has set stats at 99 that it forces the characters to be in one way or another.
Now if you kept them dead every boss fight maybe, but i don't think anyone's tried that.
>>336650719
I can remember a good 30-35 of each game's cast off the top of my head. This is bad for Suikoden considering 2-5 are shared between games and there's a much larger % of ones I don't remember at all
>>336650630
The trick is that most Suikoden party members specifically aren't meant to be combat party members. In fact most of them just hang out in your base. Outside of rare times where you have to use the other guys besides your main group.
>>336649919
Anon, the panties on Japanese school girls are the best part. Your whole argument is invalid.
![33-limbo55[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TM4IPsl.jpg "33-limbo55[1].jpg")
Think Xenoblade Chronicles -> Xenoblade Chronicles X
But then multiply everything x10, coat it in shitty PSX graphics, and toss in crappy late 90's JRPG dialogue.
Pic related is the best looking thing in the entire game. Literally everything is more vomit inducing than this.
>>336650775
>choose "the world" when she asks that question
>she just gets a little pouty
Uh, ok
It's undeniably a good game
Just not a good sequel
>>336650921
Like I said, even if only 70 are combat members that's still a fuckload of useless ass literal whos. I doubt anybody would remember Emily if she wasn't one of the best fighters in 3.
I like both games, but trigger fanboys who played it CT first get massively triggered by CC since it isn't a carbon copy sequel to CT.
I still can't believe the massive butthurt caused by square C&Ding a romhack that would make fanfiction.net users embarrassed.
>>336651004
What's ironic about this post is that a lot of Chrono Cross's staff worked on Xenoblade Chronicles and you can feel their unique touch on the game.
>>336651096
Almost every "C&D" Square "sent" was just an excuse by people involved to drop the project after realizing it was shit.
I'm more surprised people think Crimson Echos was good
>>336649342
I also personally liked Cross more than trigger the I don't understand why trigger is held so high it was solid but it's story was simple and most of the alternate endings were garbage.
It had a decent soundtrack, but it still has a lot of competitors for best JRPG soundtrack
>Xeno games, especially Gears and Blade (X too)
>Mother 2 and 3
>Chrono Trigger
>Pokemon, especially HG/SS and B2/W2
>Arguably SMRPG, Paper Mario (and TTYD) and Undertale, but they aren't traditional JRPGs.
>>336650178
It's not unreasonable to understand Balthasar's motivations and the major links to Trigger, but if you seriously think you had a grasp on the convoluted narrative before it was spelled out, I'd think you were more of a retard because that's the only way you could get on the game's mouth-breathing wavelength.
I'm not talking about events like the dragons or the hamfisted environmentalist shit, I'm talking the contrivances that drove the plot like Schala hearing baby Serge crying setting all of this stupid shit into motion.
>>336649342
Was Miguel Crono?
>>336651315
lolno
>there are missable party members
It's a shit game, don't even bother
>>336650630
That's because 87.6% of Cross' hatebase is composed of upset Trigger fanboys that detest the game because their favorite characters are dead (oh, no)!
I'm not even attempting to bait people here, the game has been highly revered or at least respected every else. By far the most common complaint I've heard directed towards the game is "BOO HOO THE CHARACTERS ARE DEAD, WHY COULDN'T IT BE ITS OWN GAME", which is barely enough reason for a game to be poor in the first place.
>>336651207
Where? Xenoblade Chronicles in an shining paragon of streamlining and cohesion compared to the spaghetti mess of Cross.
>>336651096
I played CT first, and I really liked CC.
I think they are both great games with great stories.
>>336651310
>undertale
>jrpgstill a stellar soundtrack
>>336651232
>it's story was simple and most of the alternate endings were garbage.
You'd almost think it was a SNES game from 1995...
>>336651004
I wish /v/irgins would stop needlessly comparing good story based JRPGs to the shit stain that is XCX. The other day it was Xenogears and today it's Chrono Cross. Have you no shame?
>>336651310
undertale is not a JRPG
>>336651041
You don't understand. I mean we don't get to see since she leaves and I just HOPE she has self respect ok
>>336649572
part of the problem I think is just the huge change in tone and design. Nothing really about this game when you first look at it suggests that it is a Chrono game other than the plot elements that can feel a little forced. While the two games are connected by the story itself, CC doesn't play or feel like a natural continuation of Trigger.
CT is definitely an early 90's anime game, at it's core. Playing it is almost like watching Slayers or Lodoss War or some shit and the Toriyama inspired style also helps in this respect. It's a story about a small group of friends who are brought together by fate from across time, bonding with one another and working to save the world from an existential threat.
Cross feels darker & edgier and more like the offspring of Final Fantasy 8 & 7 and the combat system while very good is a far cry from CT's. The loss of Toriyama as the main designer also didn't help (it's a little difficult to believe that was Schala)
Honestly, both of these games can be seen as representative of the types of RPG's that filled the market at the time of their release. In CT, you can see all the elements of Phantasy Star, Dragon Quest, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Star Ocean 1, and Final Fantasy 4-6. That's why it's one of the best games to recommend for one who is interested in that era of RPG's, it's very archetypal in that respect. Cross, however, is definitely late 90's RPG to the core. But that also makes the two games of the Chrono IP feel as far apart from each other as these two distinct approaches to RPG's in general.
>>336651476
Yes, it's an SNES game from 1995 that is still touted as "one of the best games of all time", even today.
Lynx felt like a bet between writers to see if they could shove in every JRPG villain trope into a single character.
>>336651485
X is fucking great, though. The story isn't finished yet (since they purposefully left like 5 different cliff hangers), but it's still one of the best JRPGS out there.
>Great soundtrack (excluding the NLA themes, everything is at least an 8/10)
>Beautiful graphics
>Fantastic world building
>Unique setting, on par with the original Xenoblade
>Good JRPG mechanics, though stat gain is a little vague, and most of the customization is done through skills and equipment alone
>Tons of stuff to do
>Unusual but good enemy design
>Good, if a little easy, bosses
>What story we have is still pretty great, just needs to be expanded upon in the sequel
Calling it Xenoblade was a mistake, though. It should've been Xeno- something else. It has as many Xenogears references in it as it does Xenoblade.
>>336651520
>she leaves
why
>>336651096
You keep repeating this lie, but it won't be true.
It's a shit sequel to Chrono Trigger. It shouldn't have been associated with it in the first place, since the ties to Chrono Trigger are loose as shit, and hamfisted in one of the info dumps. The game itself isn't that bad, but it should never have been associated with Chrono Trigger in the first place. That would've benefited both games greatly.
>>336651756
>Dark past:Check
>Scythe user:Check
>Loyal henchmen girl:Check
>Connected to the Main character:Check
>Kills one of the old heroes:Check
>Tries to kill one of the MC's party:Check
>>336651629
Multiple endings and complex stories weren't common then.
Chrono Trigger probably has one of the more complex stories for that generation of consoles.
>>336651407
The most common complaint about the game is that the story becomes a fucking trainwreck in disc 2 and its entire cast is made up of goofy gimmick characters differentiated by a speech quirk
>>336651957
>game changes nothing about CT
>somehow ruins CT
Maybe if there was a sidequest or answer for what happened to Schala. Stop being autistic.
>>336651497
>>336651448
That's why I said arguably. It's loosely related to JRPGs, like Pokemon and the Paper Mario games, but still could be considered one, since it has the interface of one, and the (Act) commands might as well be spells.
>>336651898
Big lizards
>>336651407
Is this your only defense of the game? That people who like CT hate the ways CC handled the existing setting?
Even without the CT connection, CC makes plenty of its own completely stupid decisions. A story written by a dartboard with three entirely different games stapled to it, absolutely infuriatingly retarded and preachy bullshit like the entire dwarf subplot, terrible and lacking RPG mechanics like summons and a dearth of multi-techs and stars, and more missables than any other JRPG I can think of.
>>336652050
It's missing the only part that matters.
>>336652051
Why did she choose some big lizards over MC's dick
>>336652030
>Chrono Trigger probably has one of the more complex stories for that generation of consoles.
Are you being serious? CT's story is VERY simple, and honestly, kinda generic. FFVI by comparsion had a far heavier plot, and actually came out before it.
>>336652256
Because she's a big lizard too.
There's no real evidence in Cross that crono et al are dead to be honest. In fact the game makes reference to otherthrowing guardia, if Crono and Marle died in a fight with porre then Guardia wouldn't need to be overthrown.
>>336652357
Whether they died or not before the game doesn't matter since the good ending revives everyone anyone. Niggas just wanna bitch
>>336652048
>Constantly whines about muh Chrono Trigger fans boogeyman
>Calls others autists
Yes, it negatively impacted the story of Chrono Trigger. Cross had no fucking reason to associate with Trigger, it hurt both games, though Chrono Trigger still holds up swimmingly if you disregard Cross as non-canon.
>>336652256
I guess cause she decided to fulfill her purpose since she was made by those big lizards. It's touched on right before she leaves, talking about how she doesn't know what to do cause she genuinely loved or liked the mc but still has that mission.
>>336652135
>and more missables than any other JRPG I can think of.
The most infuriating part of this is that you can miss key plot characters by talking to people or making obvious decisions
Like how you lose out on Nikki, who's prevalent throughout the entire game, if you decide to do Guile or Pierre's quests even though those two are throwaway characters. Or being locked out of getting Glenn if you don't leave Kidd to die.
>>336652195
It's got everything in a standard JRPG if you go Genocide.
Having party members is not a requirement for JRPGs : ^ )
>>336647773
>dragon gods
That sounds like the Breath of Fire series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLZumkhdI2U&index=4&list=PLe49bTB1MEI2DWjEdcZFoymsWIKKDNNfE
Mitsuda is doing remixes of some of his old work. Pretty fucking fantastic.
>>336652335
>she's a big lizard
for you
>>336652494
>Yes, it negatively impacted the story of Chrono Trigger
How so? You still saved the world from Lavos and had a happy ending. Its not Cross's fault you didn't go to 2300 and see what changed.
>>336652043
>the story becomes a fucking trainwreck in disc 2
I'll agree, it is cluttered, but not more-so than a lot of other games in that period, or even media, for that matter. Cross still had some pretty great segments, moreso than Trigger, at least.
>its entire cast is made up of goofy gimmick characters differentiated by a speech quirk
Don't act as though Chrono Trigger had amazing, fleshed-out characters, either. If you strip away all the meaningless ones, you're left with about the same roster in both games.
>>336652638
Not to mention losing out on Razzle, Korcha, Macha, or missing some of Leena's best attacks.
Hell, Funguy, Skelly, and Glenn aren't even guaranteed members.
>>336652669
It's still not Japanese.
>>336652780
>Meaningless characters
>Chrono Trigger
Pick one. Even Magus and Robo are good.
>>336652780
>Don't act as though Chrono Trigger had amazing, fleshed-out characters, either. If you strip away all the meaningless ones, you're left with about the same roster in both games.
why didn't they just focus almost solely on those characters then?
What kind of dragon is this?
>>336652886
They did. The other ones just joined when you finished their sidequest. Like Miki doesn't matter at all, only her dad and brother do but she still joins you anyway to round it out. Having an established character join you harms nothing. Having even some irrelevant character join you also harms nothing. The game isn't losing something by letting someone from a sidequest become a party member
>>336652854
JRPG is a specific style of RPG, not denoting where it came from
Dark Souls, a Japanese RPG, is a WRPG in style. Games made in RPG maker are JRPGs, despite being made in the West.
>>336653175
I knew it was coming, kill yourself.
>>336653127
It's weird though. The game wants to be all serious but half the characters are walking voodoo dolls or talking dogs or mushroom guys or cartoon aliens.
>>336653075
A best one
>>336652780
Cross' meaningless characters are actually a detriment to the game though.
Trigger's cast are walking anime cliches but at least they all have scenes going into their history and motivations, and have unique dialogue to offer in each scene. The moment someone joins you in Cross they stop being a character because practically every line of dialogue is shared between everyone, because the game has to account for you having any combination of 40 characters per scene rather than 6. People join up for no reason, spotlight is taken away from the characters who are more interesting, people like Leena who should have had a say in the story amount to nothing.
There's exceptions. I really liked Fargo, Radius, Harle and Glenn. But the sheer bloat in the games roster actively hurts the game because you get less chances for them to actually do anything. And even then a lot of the more interesting character development happens through the alternate npc versions of said characters since they need the scenario to stay intact if you decide to bring Macha and NeoFio with you for some reason.
>Cross still had some pretty great segments, moreso than Trigger, at least.
I couldn't disagree more here.
One thing about Cross I know that I think is a demerit, especially when compared to Trigger, the game is way too long and way too hard to just pick up and play because it drags at so many parts and you even get lost as to what to do.
Chrono Trigger is really only about 16 hours long, even if you include all the side stuff. I remember literally picking the game up and beating it every other couple of days and with New Game Plus, and the extra endings, this also gave the game some replay value.
Cross is a chore just to start. It's definitely a game I can only play like once every year, if even that.
>>336652884
I pick both. Magus and Frog are actually the best-developed characters in the game, and that's not saying a lot. The rest pretty much get a small segment of dialogue at the start of the game, and then they're along for the ride. Not really all that different than some of Cross' characters.
>>336653216
Eat shit, we've had this discussion so many times before. JRPG and WRPG are styles of game, just like SRPG
>>336652284
Yeah, but again, it wasn't common then.
FFVI is the exception, not the rule.
>>336653335
That is very true.
>>336653353
Chrono Cross fags are literally THIS retarded
>I never did any of the sidequests: the post
>>336646816
oh yeah. it's just a better Chrono Trigger, video game wise.
Battles have more to them, and are just as avoidable. Allocating elements is fun, and you gain new ones at a reasonable pace that you want to see in action. The lack of characterization doesn't matter, because Chrono Trigger characterization was shallow to begin with (I'm Frog, I'm a knight. I'm Magus, I'm a bad guy. I'm Lucca, I'm smart. I'm Ayla/Robo, I'm ancient/a robot) so you can choose an absolute favorite party.
Just, what counts in a JRPG is the battle system, and I don't know if Chrono Trigger could have handled so many dual and triple techs, or fun things like Sprigg doppleganging or the guy I never evolved evolving. Never having to grind, just moving at your own pace, I love Cross. Oh and forging rainbow equipment, that was cool.
>>336653221
iirc all the joke characters join early off before things start going crazy. Or at least they can. I think it's just the living flower or whatever that joins later on and all you have to do is talk to it for that.
>>336653236
>>336653750
>>336653656
>and I don't know if Chrono Trigger could have handled so many dual and triple techs
But the tech system in Trigger is way better than the one in Cross
>>336653782
ace pls
>>336653335
The few times the game isn't giving you direction are also times when you're limited on where you can go. I only ever remember being lost as a kid once when I played it back then. Then a few years ago I played it again remembering almost nothing and didn't get lost at all. I was surprised by how much was inbetween certain goals though since I'd forgotten entire dungeons and stuff.
If you know both games pretty well they aren't too far off in playtime casually. I think the CC speedrun is faster if you go by CT's glitchless time.
>>336653953
Yes?
Oi, Harle is a disgustin' hag that shags lizards!
>>336653270
>Trigger's cast are walking anime cliches but at least they all have scenes going into their history and motivations
I think only 2 actually have any real motivation or a proper backstory, the rest are pretty much, "well, I'm a good guy, so I gotta help, right?", which isn't very strong at all.
>and have unique dialogue to offer in each scene.
Woah, excuse me? The last time I checked, the characters got very little dialogue in-between scenes aside from minor quips, and even those quips are usually shared by the rest of the cast.
>The moment someone joins you in Cross they stop being a character
That's the same way I felt about Trigger, too. I guess in that respect, I suppose it's an accurate sequel. I'll agree that Leena is pretty much irrelevant after she joins, but the same could be said about Marle, too.
I don't really think that the extended roster is a detriment. They don't intrude on anything, the obvious joke characters are sorted into their own pile and never sink into the time of the important ones. When the game felt like they wanted to flesh out characters, they did.
>I couldn't disagree more here.
Well, I couldn't disagree more about you're disagreeing more here, bur we won't accomplish much by following this conversation.
>>336654056
Nothing
Just post more best girl
>>336653750
>Kid's boots are shown
>we never get to see her barefoot
Very disappointing
if Harle and Kid are twins, why is Harle so much cuter?
>>336653605
Sorry, but I don't remember the side-quests accomplishing a lot besides unloading some arbitrary information that really should've been included as a plot segment in the actual game.
>>336646816
bad game, worse sequel
>>336654365
I'm lazy and haven't found any new art. So it's really small.
>>336654423
>Ignores the side quests which add a lot of characterization
>Says that Chrono Crosses characters have as much depth
No fucking wonder
>>336653353
That's completely wrong though. If you do everything in the game, each character has a complete story arc.
If you save Fiona's forest, you learn what motivates Lucca.
If you get the Rainbow Shell, you unlock a a fairly decent sized quest where Marle reconciles with her father and her character arc comes to completion.
There's a quest where you literally fight against Robo's evil mother and murder his sister because he chooses to see value in humanity and rejects their plans.
Frog laying Cyrus to rest
Even some of the NPC's have more complete character arcs than most of the playable characters in Cross and almost feel just as much part of the adventure as any of the playable characters in CT.
And like that other anon, when you take different characters with you at certain point, there's usually unique dialogue written for them in that situation. If you don't take Marle with you to save Crono and bring Lucca instead, the scene plays out a little differently. The characters of Chrono Trigger are about as developed as is possible to develop any characters within the length of a two or three part film series (the total length of the game's story would probably only be about as long as each Extended Lord of the Rings film or as long as the 6 star wars movies). While Cross is twice as long as CT and yet has far more shallow characters who, if you aren't smart, can even harm the flow of the storytelling or are just kind of irrelevant. Meanwhile, ALL of the characters in CT at some point are relevant to the plot and become the central focus for a good portion of the game. And each character even has their own theme song that also serves to convey the spirit of their character.
CT really knows how to do a whole lot with very little while sometimes Cross does very little with a whole lot.
>>336650008
>candidate for best JRPG sountrack period
Not while Breath of Fire 1 exists
I really hope they make another Chrono game, probably takes place between Trigger and Cross. The storyline should expand to connect and make more sense too, like how did the kingdom has fallen, and how did Lucca and Luccia met?
>>336654643
Are you familiar with the meaning of the word candidate?
>>336654479
>So it's really smallW-what do you mean
>>336654732
Oh nothing..
>>336654184
no fuk u
>>336654401
There's just something adorable about a girl who runs around in a jester costume
>tfw no punk Australian qt
>>336654990
it's a good feel
no tryhard bitch in my life who would fuck the first guy who walks by with the frozen flame
This game was great, but a poor sequel to Chrono Trigger. It didn't help that no one had access to Radical Dreamers.
>>336654556
Cross factually has more characters with equal or more depth than the entire CT cast. There's plenty of them that talk like twice then join and do nothing, but there's still a good dozen or more that are very fleshed out.
>>336654990
Kid a shit! A SHIT!
>>336654990
Shame.
>>336654990
Dumped her ass for best girl Leena.
>>336654324
>I think only 2 actually have any real motivation or a proper backstory
Marle runs off from her family situation after the death of her mother causes her father to become overbearing and overprotective. She spends the whole game avoiding her responsibility, falls in love with Chrono and believes the future can be saved because she was saved from the same fate.
Robo is a defective robot who was created by Mother Brain to spy and analyze humans, but through Lucca's kindness and by seeing that he has no place among his robot brothers he decides that he'd rather accompany the party and try to build a better future than the one he lives in.
Lucca turned to science when she was young after being incapable of stopping her mother from being paralyzed after an incident with her fathers work. She develops a bond with Robo because of her feelings about the innocence of machines, tags along with Crono and Marle because she's close friends with them, and though she also wants to create a better future she's afraid that Robo might not have a place in it.
They're very simple character arcs but they're character arcs, which is more than I can say for like 80% of Cross' cast, and ones that last throughout the game. Did you not do all the sidequests that wrap them up and give you everyones best equipment?
>but the same could be said about Marle, too.
The corruption with the chancellor of Guardia and her issues with her father are a pretty relevant subplot throughout the game though, and she gets extra development if you take her on the Revive Chrono quest.
The only Trigger character who really falls by the wayside after they join is Ayla since she was a dumb cave woman who doesn't really totally get what's actually going on.
>>336646816
love this game, beat it as a teenager and went NG++++++++ only was missing 1-2 characters.
>>336655182
>literally the most generic girl
>best
Is this nigga serious
>>336646816
It's better than Trigger by far and I played CT when it came out in 95.
>>336655182
who?
>>336655302
I can't see how anyone can say it was worse than trigger because trigger was great for it's time but cross had a far better central plot. Sure some characters were just sort of there but the core cast was solid and the animu tropes were far less prevalent.
I don't understand how anyone can say a game where you spend 90% of the time doing inconsequential shit only to learn the actual plot in an infodump at the end has a good story.
>>336655647
i don't see why story matters at all in any game whatsoever ever made at any time throughout the history of video games
but that's just me. apparently a lot of weirdos care
>>336651232
It's paced well. It's a kids' story at heart but the way it flows (like the questions it brings up, and the feel of forward progression) is swift and never feels as if it drags. The alternate endings are almost all joke endings (they can only be accessed in new game+ anyway)
>>336654990
>>336655182
You're both so very wrong.
>>336655647
The towns and world building is interesting if incohesive.
>>336654612
Hmm. I suppose I must have missed out on those segments, then, or perhaps had them conveniently slip out of my memory. But even with those missable occassions, the non-gag characters in Cross have moments like that, too, and are usually far better executed.
>If you don't take Marle with you to save Crono and bring Lucca instead, the scene plays out a little differently.
The brunt of the dialogue is identical, however, with some minor variances based on their accent or forms of speech.
Past their own self-contained character arcs, they have VERY little influence on the plot, they're pretty much tag-alongs until you decide to do their side-quests or when they arbitrarily decide to spill information. I can't really recall anything significant that Marle, Robo, Lucca, or Ayla decided to do once they permanently joined the party, while there are quite a good number of RPGs, Cross included, that still keep their characters relevant and active through it all.
Even if the characters ARE irrelevant, you can attempt to mask it through an abundance of dialogue and character interaction, both of which Trigger misses sorely.
>>336655182
>>336655825
Both decent choices honestly.
>>336655302
>when it came out in 95.
I played through both of them knowing nothing in advance back to back a few years ago, and actually went into Cross first. Trigger is fantastic and Cross was middling.
>>336655647
I just don't get how Cross fans actually treat the story as one of its positives at all.
There's plenty to enjoy in the game. The environments are gorgeous and well designed, the battle system is interesting, the music is some of the greatest of all time, though I hate a majority of the cast there's some real stand-outs in it.
But holy hell the writing is a travesty, some of the worst I've seen in any game period. The only reason I even constantly get into arguments in Cross threads despite actually being okay with the game is because I can't comprehend the defense for it. Like, just because its more complicated and darker than Trigger doesn't mean it's inherently better, Trigger nails its attempt at being a cool entry level adventure RPG while Cross falls on its face trying to be Xenogears and Evangelion.
>>336655462
Agreed, both games are excellent but CC is a notch or two above CT
>>336656017
>I played through both of them knowing nothing in advance back to back a few years ago, and actually went into Cross first. Trigger is fantastic and Cross was middling
No accounting for taste I guess but even now when I go back and play them CC is just better then CT. Almost wish CC cut all ties to CT just to keep the CT fanboys from shitting on it so much
>>336656009
Out of all the girls in the game, those two are the most normal ones
Do you, by any chance, happen to like normal girls?
>>336651232
Cuz you're a nigger with shit taste who prefers godawful early 3d graphics with masturbatory 30 second long attack animations
>>336651315
pretty sure miguel is just serge's dad from the timeline where serge died as a child
>>336655190
Yes, appearently I did happen to miss out on all this background (admittedly, the game kinda bored me), but really, character development should happen IN THE JOURNEY. We should be able to actively feel them grow and progress, have some character interaction and conflict, not just have them stop one moment to give some sudden background information and then pop back to the back seat. It's not good, and at the very least, there's ONE Cross character that fits this bill.
Yes, while Cross characters are plagued with much of the same problems, there ARE 40+ of them, while Trigger has a meager 6.
>>336655462
I always felt CT was Dragonball tier in terms of story it's good when you're young but as you get older it just seems pretty meh. Definitely not #1 in my greatest RPG of all time list.
>>336656608
Miguel was Leena's dad you dummy.
>>336656575
That's the thing though, you don't have to experience those if you don't want. Enemies are skippable and there's no levels beyond what you get for beating bosses.
>>336654990
that poster that game with the game... hnngh
>>336651629
Because it is unlike Cross which is just generic mediocre trash jrpg #3334934
>>336656738
Your fanboyism is showing. Trigger was more generic as a jrpg than Cross anyways.
>>336656738
no, CT is super generic. It doesn't have fun puzzles like Lufia II, it doesn't have an interesting, dynamic combat system like Earthbound, it's just mediocre. People like it because "holy crizzap I can loot a chest in the future, then the present, then the past! get it! that's how TIME works!"
>>336652284
FF6 was "muh feels" garbage with a Joker ripoff as the villain
>>336656641
Much of this did happen in the journey though.
The last like third of the game is a huge list of missions that Gaspar gives you, and everyone besides Ayla gets one to themselves. Saving Chrono is actually one of these, it's completely optional.
You don't technically need to do it the same way you don't need to fight anything in the Black Omen but unless you've been grinding you'll be underleveled to try and tackle Lavos without getting all of that stuff. Its kind of like the World of Ruin bit in FF6 where the game gives the player complete control over how much story they still have left and where they'll go next.
y/n?
>>336657239
Y/N?
>>336657239
>that nose
>that hairstyle
How about no
>>336657296
Razzly is not for sexual!
>>336656871
Earthbounds battle system is boring as shit.
>>336657372
What is Razzly for?
>>336654704
Yeah
Chrono Cross can be a candidate for second place
>>336657415
That's fine it's not for everyone but claiming CT is any better is madness.
>>336655302
>>336655462
Samegfag
>>336657443protecting
>>336657572
CT's system is better.
Battles are fast paced, the positioning stuff is neat even if underutilized once you get the second degree magic spells, the tech system is a lot of fun to play with with plenty of variety.
Earthbound is NES Dragon Quest with a rolling health bar that forces you to play more defensively in the late game.
>>336657668
>>336646816
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ595N9NZVg
>>336656715
>enemies are skippable
>no levels
Then why even play the damn game?
>>336657854
because some people play games for more than a level grind on garbage enemies?
>>336657017
>The last like third of the game is a huge list of missions that Gaspar gives you
The sidequests, yeah.
I only really bothered to do the ones that interested me. If you only use your two favorite characters throughout the journey, (which you usually end up doing), you miss out on what developmeng these characters have in the first place, which I don't think is very effecient for a game that actually wanted to flesh out its characters properly.
>You don't technically need to do it the same way you don't need to fight anything in the Black Omen but unless you've been grinding you'll be underleveled to try and tackle Lavos without getting all of that stuff. Its kind of like the World of Ruin bit in FF6 where the game gives the player complete control over how much story they still have left and where they'll go next.
Yeah, I know, that was actually the only part that really interested me, a feature that was sadly introduced a little too late. I played through the Black Omen and got the dumb little bit of Magus taking down the generic RPG villain, yeah, but the only really good feature about that dungeon is the fact that it's optional.
>>336657854
He's full of shit.
While you don't get actual level upgrades besides what you get for defeating bosses there's mini stat boosts you obtain for fighting field enemies that absolutely add up by the end of the game, so you'd be stupid to not go for them. There's a limited amount for each level though and they're lost if you fight another boss before you get all of them on the current level, so the best thing to do is fight every enemy you can after a boss fight.
You can technically avoid all combat but you're basically playing the game underleveled if you do.
>but the only really good feature about that dungeon is the fact that it's optional.
The dungeon has some really good loot, especially if you steal with Ayla.
You can get infinite speed tabs there.
>>336656857
>>336656871
No it isn't
You fuckers have no idea what generic even means
Akira Toriyama's art style is unique compared to other manga/anime styles and has a lot of charm
Chrono Cross style is generic 90s animu art style trash
As for the cliches/tropes in the story Chrono Trigger is like a celebration/love letter to the genre
Chrono Cross on the other hand is just another melodramatic piece of trash with godawful art style with no charm whatsoever and with terrible combat system
>>336657239
>they actually turned Lucca into a Jew
THE MADMEN
>>336657712
CT's battle system is VERY repetitive, the only positive part being the speed so that you don't accidentally fall asleep.
The tech system is very bare-bones and underutilized, most, if not all spells usually fall into "damage the enemies a lot", or "heal your allies a lot", which means that a lot of them end up being almost identical, which means that the customization is almost pointless, since all the characters can occupy the same roles.
Plus, at least Earthbouns has SOME difficult moments, while CT is pretty much a breeze the entire length through.
>>336657572
CT's battle system was revolutionary when it came out
Earthbound was just Dragon Quest's battle system with a fucking gimmick...give me a break
>>336657768
>what is photoshop XD?
>>336658398
>CT's battle system is VERY repetitive
And Earthbound's isn't?
Are you fucking kidding me?
I love Earthbound but give me a fucking break
>>336658204
>Chrono Cross style is generic 90s animu art style trash
The style Nobuteru Yuuki went for in Cross is actually pretty non-standard though. Compare it to his work on something like Azure Dreams, which is a lot more typical mid-90s anime.
Not that I like Chrono Cross's artwork at all, but to someone who's only familiarity with anime and manga is Toriyama stuff Cross would come off as more distinct.
>>336658647
Cross' art-style still has very little appeal compared to Trigger's Dragon Ball-esque art-style
It's like comparing something like Scooby Doo to Looney Tunes or Mickey Mouse
>>336658189
>there's mini stat boosts you obtain for fighting field enemies that absolutely add up by the end of the game
Every character has set stats at 99*
The game picks an RNG seed when you start a new game that determines every character's stat growth per star.
The game also does catch-up stats every several stars if one of your character's stats is lagging behind what their average should be at that point.
It's impossible to miss stats, and 95% of your bonus stats are just going to be a few more HP which you would have gotten in a few stars anyway.
>>336655994
>Past their own self-contained character arcs, they have VERY little influence on the plot
None of the character arcs in Chrono Trigger are self-contained at all, they're optional at a certain point in the game, but that's different than to say they're self-contained. The majority of the side-quests tie very well into the over arching plot or help to understand the motivations of the characters which helps make the final battle feel much more meaningful, and whether it's tied directly to Lavos or just backstory, it all ties into the overarching themes of the main plot, which doesn't leave any of them feeling like a waste and almost each one has callbacks to previous parts of the main quest. For example, the boss of Marle's story quest is tied directly to a boss you fought in the main quest and his motivation is revenge for what you did near the beginning in the game, this helps to prevent these quests from feeling like typical self-contained RPG side quests and feeling more like a natural progression of the main story or a subplot within a larger plot. And all in all, each character receives an even amount of focus for the time the game has to tell its whole story. Most two cour anime series of 22-26 thirty minute episodes don't even manage to flesh out the characters or complete their arcs as well as Chrono Trigger is able to do in just 17 hours, a good chunk of which is encounters, less than half the length of such series. The characters in Chrono Trigger are probably more fleshed out than any of the characters in, say, Cowboy Bebop.
>>336658043
>>336658043
>I only really bothered to do the ones that interested me. If you only use your two favorite characters throughout the journey, (which you usually end up doing), you miss out on what developmeng these characters have in the first place, which I don't think is very effecient for a game that actually wanted to flesh out its characters properly.
I don't think your taste for the story itself or the characters is necessarily relevant here. If you couldn't be bothered to do such a small number of relatively easy enough side quests because you couldn't get invested in the story, that's fine. But we're not discussing whether the story interests you as much as the execution of all the game's elements relating to its characters and story in their totality. If we assume the player is interested in these particular character archetypes and the plot, does the game handle these elements well?
Cross is too big for its own good
Trigger is just the right size for the story it wants to tell
Cross has tons of characters who do nothing except waste memory that might have been better used on the few characters who actually mattered or on characters who would have worked better as NPC's who just give you a special reward upon completion of their particular story.
Trigger has a small cast of character who are in fact all tied together intimately, even before they meet each other, and devotes all its time to them.
Trigger has the cutscenes, exploration segments and battles all happen on the same screen in a manner not too dissimilar from Secret of Mana, which make everything flow better than Cross and helps in translating the cinematic formula to a video game, without taking anything away from the gameplay.
Whether you like Nikki as a character better than Lucca, for example, is not really what matters. Chrono Trigger is a much better designed game in almost every way, even if Cross is bigger and prettier and has a more frustrating battle system.
>>336659715
>even if Cross is bigger and prettier
It definitely isn't prettier...that shit's ugly and has aged like milk like most early 3d games and the art style is downright trash compared to Trigger's
>>336660062
Well, I always found the design of Cross to a be a strong suit.
Though I guess I can agree that the graphics have aged a lot worse than Trigger. Sprite art is always able to keep up a more timeless quality for some reason.
Cross could benefit from a remake with updated graphics that allow it to be the marvel now that it felt like when it first came out. While if you want to update Chrono Trigger, you just need to re-release it as it is with a few little extras thrown in to make sure it keeps from feeling stale.
>>336660221
I'm not a fan of the character art style and the " modern artsy fartsy" look of some of the locations
The whole Beach/Sea "Tropical" aesthetic in certain parts gives me an FFX feel too which I'm not very fond off
You don't really need to update Trigger at all in the first place and I will never get people that want a remake of it because of this reason
