![0d1f0f_5867460[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5C6lHUy.jpg "0d1f0f_5867460[2].jpg")
Are you looking forward to the inevitable boss fight against all of them where they are revealed to all be part of one giant hydra?
>>336539486
Are they baddies?
>>336541035
We're the baddies
>>336539486
Fuck I hope so. I was so disappointed when I found out they weren't in the base game. Every other character made a return. All they get is a statue and some flavor text.
>>336539486
that'd be pretty neat, as well as a dancer rematch where she's bigger and harder. Like a champion gundyr.
>>336541528
You killed dancer, she's dead.
>>336541035
>>336541169
>Frampt. I'm already a demon
>>336541573
so was ornstein and gwyndolin but that didn't stop them from comming back
>>336541279
Well, it's pretty big flavor text since it's implied that Kaathe's meddling was the whole reason Lothric became a pussy bitch who didn't want to link the fire, and thus indirectly caused all the lords of cinder to rise again.
>>336541682
Chosen Undead didn't do an all bosses run and Ornstein was an illusion.
>>336541528
>a dancer rematch where she's bigger and i am harder
>>336541857
This desu
>>336541857
That'd be a possible side effect, but it WAS a pretty fun boss fight, desu.
Something like Wolrin or Dragonslayer Armor with a focus on dodging and punishing rather than staying behind the ass would be pretty neet desu
>>336539486
Are you kidding? The DLC will be nothing as far as the lore is concerned. The serpents are nothing more than another piece on the chess board, which are now sitting on the sidelines. There is no "bad guy" in the universe. Everybody throughout the series is just another piece which has subsequently been knocked off.
>>336543909
Primordial Serpents predate everyone else. They likely even told Gwyn to attack the Dragons.
THEY are the chess masters. It only needs to be known if they serve a higher master.
>>336541778
isnt it implied that aldia led him towards that end?
>>336543979
>Primordial serpents pre-date everyone else
Really? I'd like to see a source on that. They're just another result of the first flame, and have since vanished into oblivion. The everlasting dragons are the only thing which pre-date everything else in the world, since they're the only things which existed before the first flame.
Isn't there a statue of a priest/something with a primordial serpent head somewhere in the cathedral or church?
>>336544246
>Really? I'd like to see a source on that.
PRIMORDIAL Serpents
And the First Flame likely isn't the first. The Serpents guide the cycles. The heads think independently and fight for what version of the world they want.
>>336544246
I always liked to think as the serpents as like outcast dragons, and dark souls two kinda pushed it with the dlc "Lair of the imperfect"
>>336539486
>>336544217
Yes it is, I don't know where that other guy got Kaathe from.
>>336541682
Ornstein was not in DS3. The Armour is not him and if you think he was the Nameless King you're retarded.
>>336544393
>And the first flame likely isn't the first flame
Except the intro to the first game absolutely states that the first flame is the FIRST. Before the flame was an age of grey and everlasting dragons. Also, primordial, by the definition, doesn't imply the serpents outdate the flame. Not to mention Frampt wants you link the flame, and Kaath wants you to extinguish it. Neither of these things should even matter since dark and light only came with the flame innthe first place. The fire keepers words in the dark end also imoly thenflame never really dies, and is, in itself, everlasting.
>"One day tiny flames will dance across the darkness"
What would the serpents think of Aldia? What would Aldia think of Serpents?
>>336544246
Primordial Serpents are imperfect dragons, they've been a thing since the age of ancients.
>>336544246
Except hollows were around to discover the first flame you idiot. They weren't created by the flame, they were just living underground.
The only thing the first flame brought were the souls of lords and disparity.
>>336544962
Aldia was above that crap. He's the only person in the entire series who knew it was all bullshit and nothing actually mattered.
>>336544962
They'd probably be enemies.
Aldia wants something beyond the Age of Fire/Dark, Serpents just want the Age of Dark to happen so they can begin their rule.
>>336544884
>Before the flame was an age of grey and everlasting dragons.
Which is the result of the flame not being linked for too long. With no fire, the world eventually reverts to that and the dragons/trees come back.
DS3 STRONGLY implies that the world is heading back into this state and the flame needs to be relinked STAT.
>>336545018
Hollows are unending and come from previous cycles.
>>336545083
>Serpents just want the Age of Dark to happen so they can begin their rule.
How does Frampt fit into this? Is he lying? He seems to be genuine in his desire to keep the flame alive. Is he just an outcast in regards to the rest of the Serpents?
>>336539486
What happened to Aldia?
I've only played the first game, but does the lore really get as fucked up as it seems? The first game seemed to have most things pretty well explained, except for a few motivations and thepretty fucking stupidconcept of the first flame. My autism is telling me I won't enjoy the other games, and that they should've just kept making spiritual sequels instead of trying to expand what was already laid out.
Many monarchs have come and gone.
One drowned in poison, another succumbed to flame.
Still another slumbers in a realm of ice.
Not one of them stood here, as you do now.
You, conqueror of adversities.
Give us your answer.
There is no path.
Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of Dark…
…what could possibly await us?
And yet, we seek it, insatiably…
Such is our fate.
>>336545181
If you do the Dark Lord ending in DaS you'll see him right next to Kaathe, even calls you "My Lord" and everything.
>>336545192
You kill him at the end of SotFS. They kinda changed the vanilla ending of DaS2, and instead of Nashandra being the final boss, Aldia is.
>>336545280
I think the first one had the most complete story and 2 + 3 just try to add onto it. It's a clusterfuck but not as much as Metal Gear Solid.
Just watch a few lore videos.
>>336545379
but everything Frampt does, does in fact further the cause of linking the flame.
What if he just gave up in that ending and decides to serve the Dark Lord since the alternative would be death?
>>336545347
its poetry
>>336545192
Still doing his thing, he was in charge of the Grand Archives and mentored Prince Lothric.
>>336545413
>You kill him
You don't actually, he shows up in the next second or so just fine.
>>336545554
>You don't actually, he shows up in the next second or so just fine.
So what was the point of him being a boss fight?
>>336545452
>>336545280
2 is a rushjob that Miyazaki had nothing to do with, so the Lore is incoherent.
3 just adds to it.
But the biggest issue is that the Lore feels like it all should fit together. But there's JUST enough ambiguity and unexplained that you can come up with wildly different interpretations.
>>336545608
He was testing you.
>>336545554
>He shows up
There's a monologue with him speaking, that's all. You're listening to his thoughts on the matter, nothing else. Ironically, he's the only interesting character in the entire series. He knows that nothing matters regardless of what path you choose, and one thing inevitably comes after after another, and that's it.
>>336545347
what was the "first sin"?
linking the fire?
also, I find it interesting that there's such a good mix of Judeao-Christianity and Norse themes in the setting
>>336545958
you don't get his soul at all tho
>>336546120
Aldia confirmed for Dark Souls 3 expansion pack
>>336546049
>linking the fire?
Yes
>>336546049
The first sin is wanting to be something more than you are. It's a story about being humble and excepting the fact you don't have to be great or amazing; you're perfect just how you are :)
>>336546168
very interesting that they'd say the Christ-like figure of the setting (Gwyn) is responsible for something akin to Original Sin
I love these weird Japanese takes on Christian themes, but I'm just a theology nerd.
>>336544962
who?
>>336545347
When met at the stairs leading to the Throne of Want
My journey is already complete.
My name is Shanalotte.
The dragon gave me this name, for I was born with none.
I was born of dragons, contrived by men.
By ones who would cozen fate herself… They are the ones who created me.
But they failed.
I did not come out as intended.
Fate would not be bested, and men were cursed once again.
If you proceed, Nashandra will come after you.
Knowing that you will take the throne, and link the fire.
She covets the First Flame, and the Great Soul.
Put Nashandra to rest.
You, who link the fire, you, who bear the curse…
Once the fire is linked, souls will flourish anew, and all of this will play out again.
It is your choice…To embrace, or renounce this…
Great Sovereign, take your throne.
What lies ahead, only you can see.
>>336539486
>yfw they are fingers and the boss is a huge ass dark hand or something
>>336546321
Gwyn is more Zeus. Defeated the Titans (Dragons), Lightning King of the Gods.
>>336546120
I figured that was because he was outside the cycle and no longer had one. Don't quote me on that though. He also gives you 0 souls.
>>336546386
>he didnt pay dark souls 2
>>336545097
What? The intro makes a point of saying that before the fire was grey, and it was an Age of Ancients ruled by everlasting stone dragons. There is no indication anywhere in the series that this is the state the world returns to if the fire isn't linked. We have, however, been told that if the fire isn't linked, we get the Age of Dark. People rule.
The Age of Ancients is not the Age of Dark. That it was formless and grey is supposed to SPECIFICALLY contrast that with the first flame came light and dark. Before the flame, there was no light or dark, just a formless grey expanse. To imply the age of ancients will just crop up again implies that both light and dark will just fade away somehow, which isn't true. After the first flame appeared, it's irreversible. There was light for the first time, and now without light there will be dark. It isn't scientific, it's a fantasy creation myth.
They're saving the biggest bang for DLC, just like Bloodborne.
Fighting Ludwig and Kos's Orphan is the real pinnacle of the game.
Dark Souls 3 is the same. We finish the game, fight the Soul of Cinder.
But we're going to fight the Soul of Ash as the final boss in the entire souls series.
The Furtive Pygmy will be no longer forgotten.
>>336546963
>not The Pain of Ages
That fake leak was stupid but it had some fucking awesome names.
>>336546963
Will it be the perfect way to wrap up the Dark Souls story?
>>336546963
>The Furtive Pygmy will be no longer forgotten.
Nah, he was really just a dude. An utterly boring human. he died ages ago. I don't like the fan theory that he's Manus.
>>336541778
That's actually the ONE part of the backstory that I'm pretty sure Kaathe had nothing with, and it's more likely Aldia's doing. Not that I'm expecting Aldia to appear as a character, but the circumstances regarding the Scholar work too well as a reference to him to just be a coincidence.
That said, I do blame Kaathe as the mastermind behind the events leading to the creation [?] of Untended Graves. He apparently has shadows all over Lothric manipulating things through the pilgrims, it's not inconceivable that whatever it was that forced Ludleth's hand and forced him to do... whatever it was that he did was Kaathe's fault, since it aligns with his interests so well.
>>336547090
>I don't like the fan theory that he's Manus.
Who is Manus? I always thought he was some guy who went crazy because he lost his pendant and couldn't remember his plesant memories
>>336546918
thank god
>>336547201
We have no clue who Manus is. Fans think he's Furtive Pygmy due to the association with dark/humanity. But that thematically goes against Furtive Pygmy. He's irrelvant and not some super cool powerful endless lord like the rest. he's a minor figure who died ages ago. He is only important since he's the father of humanity.
>>336547201
Everything about Manus points to him having just been a human. It seems like the only real reason people connect him to the furtive pygmy is because those are the only two really significant characters associated with the dark soul.
>>336546579
I always thought the First Flame (and needing to link it) was very similar to not having a Messiah to take the weight of all collective sin, but that's definitely a more valid interpretation.
So why was Frampt the only primordial serpent who wants the cycle of fire continues?
>>336547432
Changed his mind or something
>>336547420
He's Zeus with a bit of Jesus in there.
>>336547432
He's an outcast among the Serpents. He's friends with Gwyn and likes the Age of Fire. You can trust him so much as he wants that. He will not tell Undead that they will burn forever themselves.
Chosen Undead. Your fate is… to succeed the Great Lord Gwyn.
So that you may link the Fire, cast away the Dark, and undo the curse of the Undead.
To this end, you must visit Anor Londo, and acquire the Lordvessel.
Those who seek the Realm of the Lords must brave Sen's Fortress, a deadly house of traps.
Many have gone before you, but none have returned.
Fate has chosen you, but proceed with caution.
As Kingseeker, I shall now instruct you, the Lord's successor in your next task.
To achieve your fate, fill the vessel with powerful souls,
commensurate to the great soul of Gwyn.
Scarce few possess such brilliant souls.
Gravelord Nito, the Witch of Izalith,
the Four Kings of New Londo, who inherited the shards of Gwyn's soul…
and Lord Gwyn's former confidant, Seath the Scaleless.
All of their souls are required to satiate the lordvessel.
The Lordvessel is satiated…
Magnificent… You are the righteous successor to Gwyn, the new Great Lord.
And I am Kingseeker no more…
Your acquaintance was an honour.
I must admit, I am fond of you humans.
May you enjoy serendipity,
And may the Age of Fire perpetuate.
>>336546963
I work at Bamco, the first DLC is exploring beneath The Profaned Capital where you find the ruins of Forest of Fallen Giants and Majula from 2 because TRANSITORY LANDS. First boss is War God Faraam. He has a golden variant of the Faraam Set and a fucking brutal looking halberd.
The second is visiting Londor which is basically a big web of ancient buildings suspended by chains linking them all together in the Abyss. You get there from the big gravestone near the third Irithyll Bonfire. The first boss is Fallen Apostle Morne, who starts of with a long sword but gets mad halfway through and uses a pillar as a hammer.
>>336547508
>Jesus in there.
Absolutely not.
Gwyn was a coward that was afraid of the dawn of the age of man, he was so scared of humans taking over and stealing the world he and the other gods build that he burned himself to keep the age of fire going and had the humans worship the gods.
>>336546963
>The furtive pygmy will no longer be forgotten
We already killed Manus, though. The Abyss literally isn't a thing anymore.
Greetings Undead Warrior
I am the Primordial Serpent Darkstalker Kaathe
I can guide thee, and illuminate the truth.
Undead Warrior, conqueror of the Four Kings, is this not your wish?
To know the truth of men, and the Undead?
The truth I shall share without sentiment.
After the advent of fire, the ancient lords found the three souls.
But your progenitor found a fourth, unique soul.
The Dark Soul.
Your ancestor claimed the Dark Soul and waited for Fire to subside.
And soon, the flames did fade, and only Dark remained.
Thus began the age of men, the Age of Dark.
However…
Lord Gwyn trembled at the Dark.
Clinging to his Age of Fire, and in dire fear of humans,
and the Dark Lord who would one day be born amongst them,
Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature.
By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans,
Gwyn has blurred your past, to prevent the birth of the Dark Lord.
I am the primordial serpent.
I seek to right the wrongs of the past to discover our true Lord.
But the other serpent, Frampt, lost his sense, and befriended Lord Gwyn.
Undead warrior, we stand at the crossroad.
Only I know the truth about your fate.
You must destroy the fading Lord Gwyn, who has coddled Fire and resisted nature,
and become the Fourth Lord, so that you may usher in the Age of Dark!
Once the vessel is filled with souls, the gate to Gwyn shall open.
Seek Gravelord Nito, the Witch of Izalith, and the traitor Seath the Scaleless.
Fill this vessel with their souls.
Then, the gate will open… so that you may kill Gwyn.
>>336545097
>>336546931
Truth is, the series is very ambiguous in this regard. The intro of the first game was clear, the First Flame birthed disparity, and thus light and dark. These fundamental things cannot exist with the First Flame.
But the entire point of Kaathe's plan in the original game was letting the flame die and bringing forth an Age of Dark. That implies that the changes that the First Flame wrought to the Age of Ancients are irreversible and a flameless world would not revert to fog and stone, but instead fall to Darkness. But Darkness itself in the first place can presumably only exist as long as the Flame does.
Then Dark Souls III comes and confuses things even further by hinting at the possibility of a new Age of Fog, depending on wether or not you buy the idea of pilgrims slowly turning into Archtrees, and the stone things in Archdragon Peak being proto versions of true Everlasting Dragons made of stone.
>>336546931
>the mist is the magic from the Archdemons and Old One
>Dark and Demons Souls are about eternal return
>every game leads to any of the other games
>>336547731
>The intro of the first game was clear, the First Flame birthed disparity, and thus light and dark
Which doesn't make sense since Seath was a dragon without the scales that gave immortality, in an age without life or death.
>>336547689
>he fell for Kaathe's lies
Does The Abyss look like a fun place to be in? The Age of Dark is not The Age of Man.
>>336547689
>wanting the best for your species and being afraid of an unknown darkness is cowardice and not just survival instinct
>>336547773
>Immortality
Except you kill him. The "Everlasting" Dragonsx weren't exactly everlasting either. Nothing is forever, but it does continue to be recycled throughout time. It's basically an analogy for the Universe and the idea of that nothing really dies, and stuff simply becomes something else.
>>336547773
There's nothing indicating when Seath was created. He could very well have been spawned [or however it was that Everlasting Dragons make more of their own] after the Flame came to be, and as a result would be one of the first dragons to adopt biological characteristics. Do note how hideously mutated he is, after all, and how the games make a point of indicating that the timeline between "The First Flame came to be" and "The Dragons were no more" is actually quite longer than the intro would make you believe.
Believe it or not…
Oolacile has brought the Abyss upon itself.
Fooled by that toothy serpent, they upturned the grave of primeval man, and incited his ornery wrath.
What could they have been thinking?
But to you and I, it's all ancient history.
You have to ask yourself. Does it really matter?
>>336547829
The abyss also isn't the age of dark. The abyss is literally something Manus created.
>>336547773
And the dragons were able to be killed by just being struck with some lightning that peeled off their immortality scales. Technically, the age of ancients can still be an age before life and death exist if none of them happened to die, even though they have the capacity to. Obviously, if they have the capacity to die, they are "alive", but until it happens, it doesn't exist, and life doesn't mean anything.
![iAHofwAbVE4MmqpIx8sIQA_RTntosyljnYme_7Gez3g[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/krC0Eae.jpg "iAHofwAbVE4MmqpIx8sIQA_RTntosyljnYme_7Gez3g[1].jpg")
>>336547719
>>336547596
Has anyone made a Kaathe and Frampt version of this?
>>336539486
if you expect some ebin showdown with a serpent you're pretty fucking stupid.
>>336547829
>Does The Abyss look like a fun place to be in?
Yes, there is also clearly more to it than just blackness since the bonfire is there and Kaathe comes from somewhere.
Gwyn was a bitchboy and a coward, he made the humans worship the gods because he was full of himself and then when he realized things might turn around he pulled every possible underhand trick to keep the humans in dark about what would actually happen if the flames faded.DS2 takes place in the age of man and is perfectly fine, arguably DS3 too since there are no actual gods left.
>>336547926
Reading comprehension anon.
The intro is vague and full of shit, it says there was no life and death yet Seath is a dragon, a dragon without the scales of immortality making him mortal, in an age where there is no life or death.
Someone can't be mortal in an age without death.
>>336547959
He's from Bloodborne, it takes place in an Age of Darkness, free from false 'gods'
yet humans still fuck things up for themselves
>>336547926
They were everlasting as long as they maintained their scales. Which Gwyn and his knights would separate from them with lightning bolts, thus presumably making them vulnerable to Nito's miasma.
>>336548007
>Yes goy. The Age of Dark is a wonderful place. Ignore Oolacile and New Londo. Those don't count.
>>336548101
As far as we know the stone dragon you find in Ash Lake is still alive and well, buried beneath the earth.
>>336548124
Except BB isn't an age of darkness and in absolutely no fucking way is if free from 'gods'.
>>336548195
What does that have to do with anything?
"Undead Warrior, truly you have the Dark Souls™ for PS3, Xbox 360 and PC."
Really, From?
>>336541663
Gwyn sent us to abyss. We're going even deeper
Have you heard of Seath the Scaleless?
In legend, he turned against the ancient dragons.
He became Lord Gwyn's confidant, was granted dukedom, and was allowed to pursue his research.
At the Regal Archives, he immersed himself in research on scales of immortality, the one thing that he did not have.
… But his very research drove him mad…
The Archive became a dungeon, a place for sinister experiments.
Now, nobody dare even approach the duke's forbidden Archives.
It looms over this land, high atop the mountain.
But I should warn against even an approach…
>>336548101
>DS2 takes place in the age of man and is perfectly fine
The very fact that there are humans around show that it's not an age of Dark. The First Flame still exists somewhere, it's just been neglected, and as Vendrick himself notes, when it inevitably runs out, the façade of humanity will collapse and every human being there is will revert to the natural state of hollows. The darkness of Drangleic is just a combination of Nashandra's influence over the kingdom and Vendrick convincing himself that doing absolutely nothing to save the flame would be a good idea, basically embracing the idea that the coming darkness will be a good thing.
>>336548228
That some dragons are, in fact, immortal.
Let's get real though, the whole thing contradicts itself all over the damn place. It's very sloppy story telling.
>>336545280
I really don't think there's meant to be any sort of coherent story timeline. It's a sort of timeless purgatory. Japs don't value standard plot structures like westerners do. It's more about conveying emotions.
>>336548249
It was worse in 2.
>Yes indeed, it looks like you truly were the Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin DX11 Version all along
You can't make this shit up.
>>336548209
Lovecraft stories are full of cults worshiping Cosmic Horrors as gods
just because they're called that doesn't mean they're actually gods, you know ;)
>>336547068
You still got that leak list by any chance?
>>336548370
How is that a contradiction? There's no indication that the first flame appearing suddenly made all of the dragons intrinsically mortal. The only reason the first flame was able to bring the disparity of life and death even to the dragons is because it birthed creatures powerful enough to kill them. The scales give them immortality, but the scales can be removes and broken through, so clearly what that means is that the scales give them immortality with regards to aging. They don't die of natural causes. The dragon in ash lake simply managed to avoid Gwyn's crusade.
>>336548335
>it's not an age of Dark
Age of Dark = Age of Man, the game flat out tells you this.
Did you see any gods doing anything in DS2?
Arguably the closest we got was Darklurker and we really don't know enough about him to just say he was a god. The Age of Fire is defined by the gods existing and having power, the Age of Dark is the age of Man and there are no gods doing anything in 2.
>>336545280
>does the lore really get as fucked up as it seems?
Immensely. Not really convoluted like you'd expect out of something like, say, Metal Gear, but immensely vague.
Anybody know how if you can remove the eclipse in Dark Souls 3? I hate how it makes the other areas look
>>336548209
It's full of Ayy lmaos
>>336548476
No sorry. It might be archived somewhere. I don't have anything better to do so I might look for it.
>>336548521
>Age of Dark = Age of Man, the game flat out tells you this.
Kaathe tells you this.
And the Serpents only tell you part of the truth. Kaathe tells you the back story of Furtive Pygmy, the origin of Humans and what Gwyn did. He is lying about the Age of Man.
Frampt is telling the truth about many things, but neglects to tell you that you won't be the King, but instead of burning sacrifice.
>>336548521
Yes, Age of Dark = Age of Man = Age of Hollows, and like I said, there are still functional humans, which shows that it's not an actual Age of Dark and the First Flame still exists. This is basic information we're dealing with here Anon. The Age of Fire is not at all defined by whatever entity has decided to claim godhood this century, it's defined by the First Flame existing and keeping the world ordered. Like, say, the freaking SUN still existing, and even that starts to fail at the latter stages of the third game.
If there's one thing Dark Souls II beats over your head is the concept that the Undead Curse is not really a curse, it's humans reverting to their natural state, which will be a worldwide effect once the Flame dies.
>>336548476
That was quicker than I expected.
udex Gundyr
Dancer of the Frigid Valley
The Pursuer
Cold Ironclad Guardian
Wandering Methuselah
Old Rusted Golem
Belfry Gargoyles
Hollow Queen Elandrie
High Priestess Geleis and Honour Guard Carmine
Squalid Beast
Mossmonger Gradtsten
Aldrich, Saint of the Deep
Smoke Vanguard
Demon of Pale Ash
Abyss Watchers
Black Dragon Rothdeir and White Dragon Einord
Ancient Dragonslayer
Lord of the Profaned Capital
Senh Lorna, Great Serpent of the Dark
The Pain of Ages
>>336548761
Thanks senpai.
Seeker of fire, deliverer of crowns.
What do you see in the flames?
Find the crowns, and your own answers.
The crowns hold the strength of lords from time long past.
Seek adversity.
As befits you, seeker of fire, coveter of the throne.
I am no king. I am more fit to be a jester…
I was unaware of my own blindness.
We are feeble vessels, with feebler souls.
We would cast aside the prop of life, only to face greater hardship.
Are you another such fool, or something more?
I, too, sought fire, once.
With fire, they say, a true king can harness the curse.
A lie. But I knew no better…
Seeker of fire, you know not the depths of Dark within you.
It grows deeper still, the more flame you covet.
Flame, oh, flame…
I am king of this wretched, unravelled kingdom.
I subdued the Giants, and claimed their strength.
So that I might step closer to fire…
Drangleic will fall, the fire will fade, and the souls of old will reemerge.
With Dark unshackled, a curse will be upon us…
And men will take their true shape…
>>336548793
Np friendo.
>>336548717
>Age of Dark and the First Flame still exists
And it always will, the first flame existing doesn't mean shit because for 3 games now we have been told that it will never go away.
The first flame not having any power and influence is what matters.
>>336548548
its permanent
>>336548761
>Wandering Methuselah
>Smoke Vanguard
>Demon of Pale Ash
>Senh Lorna, Great Serpent of the Dark
>The Pain of Ages
Fund it.
This talk of undead reminds me, I recall hearing or reading that it wasn't until Gwyn linked the first flame the first time that the undead curse started. So, during the first, proper, natural age of fire, all humans were very normal humans, right? There was no undeath, no reviving infinitely, and hollowing out, correct? The first flame and the age of fire being prolonged beyond when they naturally should have is what caused humans to become undead and start to revert into hollows? Frampt says in the first game that you linking the fire will lift the undead curse. That would be a lie, then?
Is using the dragonslayer spear with only 20/20 STR/DEX worth it?
>>336548871
>because for 3 games now we have been told that it will never go away.
...no we haven't.
No we VERY DEFINITELY haven't.
Closest one gets is the End of Fire ending in III where the Firekeeper predicts that one day a new Flame might be born, and until then the world is basically undone.
>>336548895
>it wasn't until Gwyn linked the first flame the first time that the undead curse started
Since we are never given a clear timeline as to when the curse started we don't actually know.
There is nothing to flat out prove the theory true or false either way
>>336548895
It'll make the undead go away for a while but when the flame begins to fade the Darksign will reappear and undead will start appearing again. It wasn't a lie but it wasn't the truth either.
>>336548895
From what we can tell, the Undead Curse is just the Flame weakening, and the Dark Souls losing power. That would happen any time the Flame weakens.
>>336549014
just like real life, you have to choose what you'll believe
>>336547315
It's very strange then for (kind of) final battle of Dark Souls 1, to be against some irrelevant nobody who lost his shitty trinket.
>>336539486
Wrong, the Primordial Serpents are not a Hydra.
Here is a full image of Frampt. Don't tell anyone, From could fire me for this.
Chosen Undead waited. The lights above him blinked and sparked out of the air. There were demons in the base. He didn’t see them, but had expected them now for years. His warnings to Kaathe and Frampt were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.
Chosen Undead was a space marine for fourteen years. When he was young he watched the spaceships and he said to dad “I want to be on the ships daddy.”
Dad said “No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS”
There was a time when he believed him. Then as he got oldered he stopped. But now in the space station base of the UAC he knew there were demons.
“This is Frompt” the radio crackered. “You must fight the demons!”
So Chosen gotted his palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
“HE GOING TO KILL US” said the demons
“I will shoot at him” said the cyberdemon and he fired the rocket missiles. Chosen plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
“No! I must kill the demons” he shouted
The radio said “No, Chosen. You are the demons”
And then Chosen was a zombie.
>>336549008
>DS1
>The first flame is everlasting
>DS2
>cycles and the flame will always be reborn and never truly go away, the best you can do is join Aldia on his campaign of gaining immortality for yourself then fucking off
>DS3
>in the dark embers will reemarge
Nah we are pretty clearly told that the first flame is here to stay, all the 3 endings of 3 support this as well, you relight it, you try to snuff it out and it comes back or you STEAL (not destroy) it for yourself.
>>336547315
Logically Manus has to be the pygmy.
The pygmy = father of humanity
Manus = father of the abyss
Abyss = dark
Dark = humanity
>>336548007
>Believing anything that fucking snake has to say after he was the one responsible for Oolacile
Best ending is the end of fire ending.
Fuck it all, fuck linking the fire, and fuck becoming the dark lord. Let everything start fresh
guys what the fuck is an index? like in relation to gundyr I mean? is it a rank or something?
>>336548895
>Frampt says in the first game that you linking the fire will lift the undead curse. That would be a lie, then?
It's the truth, but only in so much as it means the Flame will be strong enough again to keep humanity going.
It's not that Gwyn linking the flame has caused the curse or anything like that, theoretically speaking there have been no adverse effects shown to the act of linking the fire and extending the longevity of the Flame, it just so happens that A - usually kingdoms start collapsing and all manner of nastiness takes hold in the world at the same time, because no one bothers to keep records of the fact that there's a very important bonfire that should absolutely never run out and B - The process becomes more and more inefficient with time
>>336549236
Iudex, it's judge
judge
people really are this stupid....
>>336548519
the dragon in ash lake is a descendant of the ancient dragons, it's spelled out in the description of his tail weapon
>>336549236
It's Iudex and it means judge
![1405807534050[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qA8h54i.jpg "1405807534050[1].jpg")
>>336549253
>very important bonfire
>mfw the first flame is just a big bonfire
>>336548079
>And the dragons were able to be killed by just being struck with some lightning that peeled off their immortality scales
Which happens after fire comes and introduces life and death, by someone who specifically comes to being with said fire too
>>336549236
Iudex is a Latin word for judge or adjudicator. Essentially he's there to test the Unkindled and judge if they're worthy. In a death battle of course.
>>336549214
The abyss is a product of the dark, but we don't know that they're the same thing. We don't know that, for example, being in the abyss you fight the Four Kings in is what the age of dark would be like. The pygmy had the dark soul, and was the father of humanity. One of those humans had their humanity fucked with and turned into a monster and spawned the abyss. I mean, they might be the same guy, but there's not really any evidence. It's just people wanting to link together as many things as possible, as directly as possible. Like saying the Lothric Queen absolutely has to be Gwynevere herself rather than related to her.
>Profaned Capital
Is this the original Kiln of the First Flame? Oolacile?
>>336549434
The Dragons didn't change. They could be killed at any time. It's just that there was no conflict or anything so nothing would change.
>>336549394
wasn't the network of bonfires made just to keep the First Flame running anyway?
>>336549394
It's a big bonfire
>>336549175
>DS1
>The first flame is everlasting
We're never told this. The entire point of Kaathe as a character is based on this not being true.
>DS2
>cycles and the flame will always be reborn and never truly go away, the best you can do is join Aldia on his campaign of gaining immortality for yourself then fucking off
The cycle that Dark Souls II references is a cycle WITHIN the Age of Fire that the first game also references, that being the Cycle of Kindling. Vendrick wants to break it and let the flame die, but his entire kingdom goes to hell and the player character comes to the fore before the flame can die.
>DS3
>in the dark embers will reemarge
Yes, a new First Flame coming to be at one point in the unspecified future. While the world as is dies completely along with the current one. Do note the very Sun going out? It's far different than "the Flame existing or not doesn't mean shit". The world dies. It just throws out a ray of hope that a new one can be born again.
>>336544704
He was in DS2, though.
>>336549253
Why is humanity fueled by the first flame, if humanity is the creation of the dark soul? Is it because the actual natural state of those with the dark soul is hollows, and humans as we see them are exclusively a facade of the first flame, rather than humans in a healthier state?
>>336549519
It's Drangleic and Yhorm is the Giant Lord's great great great great great grandson
>>336549519
I was certain it was Oolacile [which would make a certain sense since it'd link the Profaned Flame, whatever it is, to Manus and the Abyss], but some Anon pointed out that it looks a lot like Firelink Altar. I haven't been able to verify that yet.
>>336549434
The fact that they specify that Gwyn is removing the scales with his lightning, and that Seath isn't immortal because he doesn't have the scales, and continues to research those scales well into the age of fire, is pretty clear indication that the flame bringing life and death to the world didn't just straight up make the stone scales just stop working.
Think of Frampt and Kaathe like Jacob and The Man in Black, from LOST. They don't give the sloppiest of shits about who does what, they just want to see if they CAN make anyone do something. It's all a game, senpaitachi.
>>336549530
Who knows. Way of the White has a fascination with Bonfires, and it seems their religion focuses on them. But we never know more details about them.
Priests are trained to light bonfires. Undead naturally have this power.
Bonfires are made from Undead btw.
>>336549621
>Why is humanity fueled by the first flame, if humanity is the creation of the dark soul?
The Dark Soul comes from the Flame.
>>336549562
>Vendrick wants to break it and let the flame die
No he doesn't
Vedric wants Nasharda and just gave up on everything once he realized what a bitch she was
Aldia is the one that wants to break the cycle and ultimately fails.
The cycle DS2 refers to is clearly the cycle of the flame being relit or abandoned by different people but it not really mattering in the end.
The first flame is eternal and this is told to you in 3 games, I'm sorry if this goes against your headcanon but it's how the story goes.
>>336549621
Humanity, the tangible, black and white specter, is the splintered Dark Soul, the result of the Pygmy's actions, and linked to the Dark and the Abyss. Human beings, the race, are the result of hollows being given sentience, conscience, biology, true life, whatever you might want to call it, by the First Flame.
It's confusing because the terms are very similar. Humanity is not really dependent on the state of the First Flame, it seems, but humanity, or rather human beings, are. They require it to remain, well, human.
>>336549852
>Way of the White
how dafuq did Gwyn have an uncle
why
were the Lords lying?
is Gwyn not the first holder of a Lord Soul?
it is a mystery
>>336549923
Vendrick and Aldia were working in unison, Anon. But with different approaches.
Vendrick wanted to follow the path of Dark, while Aldia wanted to break the dichotomy completely and find a third way.
Don't be so quick to claim headcanon in order to try and belittle my points, especially since you haven't at all provided a single piece of evidence or source to the games saying that the First Flame is eternal and endless. And do note that I'm not even one of those people who violently refuse to acknowledge the second game as canon.
>>336549639
Yhorm isnt a tree giant
>>336548761
>Iudex Gundyr
same
>Dancer of the Frigid Valley
same
>The Pursuer
didn't happen, I guess the same one from DS2?
>Cold Ironclad Guardian
Vordt?
>Wandering Methuselah
sounds fucking awesome
>Old Rusted Golem
I guess the one from Sen's fortress
>Belfry Gargoyles
pass
>Hollow Queen Elandrie
could realistically be anything
>High Priestess Geleis and Honour Guard Carmine
another double battle
>Squalid Beast
the alligatordog from Boreal Valley?
>Mossmonger Gradtsten
roting greatwood, perhaps?
>Aldrich, Saint of the Deep
same
>Smoke Vanguard
sounds interesting; i imagine a mix between Nito and the Balrog
>Demon of Pale Ash
last demon king
>Abyss Watchers
same
>Black Dragon Rothdeir and White Dragon Einord
in the game, just not a boss battle?
>Ancient Dragonslayer
dragonslayer armour?
>Lord of the Profaned Capital
Yhorm
>Senh Lorna, Great Serpent of the Dark
cut, I guess DLC
>The Pain of Ages
best name for any boss ever
More or less?
>>336549929
Then why does the dark soul even matter? Hollows are, or at least seem to be, what "people" were before the first flame, before any of the lord souls were acquired, those mindless underground dwellers. Those things were given sentience and life by the first flame. What did being given shards of the dark soul really do for anybody? Or is having a piece of the dark soul what allows those hollows to be fueled by the flame and made human?
>>336549394
Isnt the first flame the sun? I mean when its dying at the end of DS3 the sun starts to get eclipsed and if you let the flame die out the shadow on the sun spreads until the sun is gone completely
>>336550069
>Vendrick and Aldia were working in unison, Anon. But with different approaches.
No they weren't
Holy shit nigga please your headcanon contradicts so much shit that the games flat out tell you it's not even funny.
Vendric saw the undead curse thought it was a problem asked Aldia to solve it, Aldia went on to fuck around, figured out the cycles and tried to create bearer seek seek lest to somehow get rid of it. None of it worked Vendric got pissed and locked Aldia up in his keep because his experiments got out of hand.
Then Vendric went and sat in the cypt and cried about his waifu being gone until he went hollow.
He even states it when you talk to him
"But is this the only path?" AND he grants you the blessing that is actually needed for Aldias plan to work.
Vendric did not want an age of dark and he sure as shit didn't care about the cycles, all he wanted Nashadra because he was mad in love.
This is all stuff flat out told to you by the game in descriptions or by the characters themselves.
>>336550280
The Sun is another construct fueled by the Flame.
>>336550280
The sun is analogous to the first flame in some way, what with it being a big circle of flame and light in the sky. Keep in mind this is a fantasy world where a lot of things are explained in the way that you'd see medieval people interpreting them. The sun doesn't necessarily have to actually be the astonomical ball of combusting gas in outer space that the earth orbits, in the Souls series. It can really just be a fire in the sky that exists, narratively, as a metaphor for the first flame.
>>336550240
Ancient Dragonslayer is probably Unnamed King since he's noted as an ancient dragon slayer in the game.
Pain of Ages is probably just Soul of Cinder.
>tfw you keep saying "Demon's Souls 3" on skype when referring to this game
All the fucking similarities or callbacks.
>>336550275
>Then why does the dark soul even matter?
Because the pygmy is an absolute troll. That's literally it. The description of Humanity [I believe] in Dark Souls I even point out that Humanity is not clearly linked to consciousness, or souls, or anything like that. Basically the Pygmy crushed the Dark Souls into a billion pieces and spread it over all of mankind just so one day when the Flame started to fade and the Souls of Lords started losing power while the Dark Souls grew stronger [that's another property of the Dark Soul incidentally, growing stronger the weaker the Flame is], he would have the satisfaction of rubbing on Gwyn's face the fact that his order was undone.
Not literally, of course.
Because he would be dead literally entire eras before it would come to pass.
>>336550443
>Pain of Ages is probably just Soul of Cinder.
I think so too, maybe it's that Japanese thing where it's written with multiple meanings
I definitely felt the pain of all the ages when lit that flame
>>336550240
I think the Wandering Methuselah was meant to be the Greatwood since Methuselah was the oldest guy in the bible and Methuselah trees live for fucking ages.
>>336550415
>>336550280
In Dark Souls World, The Sun is likely just a ball of fire that orbits the world that is fueled by the Flame.
I've got a really bad feeling about giving these to the Fire Keeper
Does it lock it me into the bad nightmare ending where my dick gets cut off and I'm turned into a human toilet?
>>336550347
While I could keep discussing this, can I just point to the fact that Vendrick's motivation is irrelevant to the point at hand, the supposed notion that the First Flame is somehow irrelevant despite three games screaming the opposite?
>>336550568
IIRC Gwyn made it himself. It's linked to the flame and indicative of it's condition, but the sun itself isn't really anything special on it's own.
>>336550590
No. it gives you the optional true ending
aka best ending
>>336550615
>the supposed notion that the First Flame is somehow irrelevant despite three games screaming the opposite?
Who ever said that? Nigga what on earth are you talking about?
>>336550509
>This black sprite is called humanity, but
>little is known about its true nature.
>If the soul is the source of all life,
>then what distinguishes the humanity
>we hold within ourselves?
Not quite so blatant, but still pretty obviously written to make you wonder what it's even for. Huh.
>>336550590
You aren't locked into anything if you give those to her. The means of backing out are explained pretty well, too. Don't worry.
>>336550590
Nah, it unlocks the option at the end for that ending but you don't have to pick the human toilet ending when you get there.
>>336550590
Just do it, it gives you a sweet fire link theme.You can always kill her and take the eyes back
>>336550536
Most likely it's just an issue regarding what characters FROM used to write the names and how the translator handled it.
When you consider that the Soul of Cinder is said to be the essence of everyone that linked the flame Pain of Ages also makes sense.
>>336550709
>but you don't have to pick the human toilet ending
>>336550694
This entire mess of a conversation began with you claiming that the series keep implying that the flame is at no risk of going away and it would have no power and influence or some such nonsense.
>>336550590
It gives you the option for living peacefully with your waifu or bullying her.
You can still go for the default ending though
>>336550802
You don't, it just gives you the option so you can still link the flame or usurp it if you have second thoughts about letting the Firekeeper shit in your dick hole for the rest of eternity.
>>336547597
fucked up if true
>>336550846
We gonna fight that in the DLC no doubt. Except he might magic up some arms or something too.
>>336550845
>eries keep implying that the flame is at no risk of going away
And it isn't and that is by no means the same thing as
>First Flame is somehow irrelevant
Look nigga I'm sorry but your headcanon is wrong, yo umisinterpeted that characters in DS2 and flat out ignored contradictions to what you thought was right.
You somehow completely missed the fact that the first flame never went away despite everything that happened to it.
The first flame is forever and 3 games have bashed you over the head with this, that is all there is to it.
Feel free to get a last reply in but I'm not going to reply anymore since you are so heavily invested into your headcanon that you flat out ignore it when the games themselves tell you that you are wrong.Go play the games again and actually pay attention to whats happening rather than jumping to the first conclusion you can make and then sticking to it no matter what happens later
>>336551012
The important question is, will he [they?] still sound like an old accountant?
>>336539486
FANSERVICE
They have exceded the number of references to DSI already, please don´t use the serpents.
>>336551117
Of course, you think this is amateur hour or something?
>>336551085
Constantly repeating "headcanon" does not a point make, Anon.
>serpents give some pimping wings to some random fatasses but not the dark lord in das1
FROOOOOOOOOOOM
>>336551167
Serpents are actually very important. They have set everything in motion. They're the chess masters behind the game.
>>336551249
That's because the faggot fucked up. Nigga let someone link the flame so he got his wings taken away.
>>336551249
Because angels weren't the hot shit in DaS. How did Kaathe get the angel idea in DaS3?
>>336551619
because the best way to manipulate people is to appear good/divine, not dark
>>336551282
>behind the game
Yep, and i hope that they will stay there. I can´t stand against one more DAI reference.
>>336551783
I want to finally beat them to death though. They can't keep getting away with it. Killing them would produce some closure.
>>336551783
>DAI reference
wat
are you referring to a godawful Bioware game
Regarding DLC, where do you think the entrance will be.
>>336551951
Untended Graves.
>>336551867
KEK, I wrote DA, for DArk souls I, and create this monster... sorry.
>>336551951
I get the feeling one will definitely be in Irithyll, there's so much DaS1 stuff there that it would be easy to bullshit an entrance anywhere, even moreso if we do go to Londor considering how the most important part of the Londor questline takes place there. As for the second DLC, I have no clue.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but in DaS2 do you have to beat the DLCs again to fight Aldia or can you just go normally?
>>336547773
Because he tore off his own scales. What, you think the blood all over him in the intro is from other dragons?
>>336551951
that one weird hill where you fight the Crystal Sage
That one tall gravestone in Irythill
>>336552182
I don't think you need to beat the DLC, but you need to murder Vendrick
>>336552182
All you need to do is speak to him at all 3 locations he appears at and then kill Vendrick BEFORE killing Nashandra. If Nashandra is dead then you can't fight Aldia without an ascetic.
>>336552210
So Seath tore off his own scales, to become not immortal, so he could then betray the dragons because he wasn't like them and spend the rest of his life researching immortality?
Seems like a questionable plan.
>>336548548
just proceed to ng+
>>336552256
>>336552393
Oh ok. I haven't gone into the Throne of Want yet and i was told i needed the three crowns which i already own, but i thought maybe i needed to "activate" them again by beating the DLC a second time.
>>336552568
Nah it's all good, they patched Aldia into the base game so even people who don't have the DLC can still get the new ending.
>>336552568
You activate the crowns by talking to vendric and getting his blessing
You need 4 crowns to do it though and the effect is immunity to hollowing if you die while wearing one.
>>336552710
>>336552724
Yeah yeah i know, i beat the game before that one patch added him so the only way for me to fight him was being summoned. I went into NG+ specifically to get the new Boss Souls and fight him myself.
Thanks.
>>336552497
He tore off his own scales so Gwyn and co. would believe him about switching sides and spent the next eon or so trying to get them back.
You know how when you get a really shallow scrape that tears off the top layer of dermis without drawing blood there's this weird soft wet layer? That looks exactly like what's going on with Seath's entire body.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10097196/
>>336548761
>Senh Lorna
>Great Serpent of the Dark
Is that by a chance Sen from Sen's Fortress?Since its title is ''Great Serpent'' and his name is literally Senh?
>>336549618
>DS2
>canon
they picked and chose a few of the good things in DS2 (mirrah, creighton, some of the items, and the single tree outside of firelink), and said FUCK THE REST
and with good reason, DS2 was shit in a lot of ways
why was he even in the tower of flame? what the fuck WAS the tower of flame? there was barely any flame anywhere in it?
DS2's story is a complete mess, at least DS3 says that Orn went searching for his master (Gwyn's firstborn), then found him chilling with dragons and so he threw all the shit away that his master gave him
>>336554146
+18
>>336546414
I really found her voice lovely.
What accent did she use though?
>>336553997
no
it was mistranslated
sen = thousand in Japanese
it was supposed to be Fortress of a Thousand Traps
dumbass translators made it Fortress of Sen- Sen's Fortress
theory on the plot of dark souls 3, bit long so here's a paste
http://pastebin.com/tHTFMfEB
>>336554256
Welsh I think
>>336554256
Czech I believe.
>>336554268
I know that but it was never really confirmed.
>>336554268
Nameless King's name is Sen.
Notice how there are snakemen in Sen's and snakemen in archdragon?
>>336554331
Yeah, that sounds about right.
Cheers, anon.
>>336554814
>Nameless King's name is
>NAMELESS King's NAME is
>NAMELESS
>NAME
ok
>>336554961
he was nameless because of his exile, family
he was Sen before he abandoned his people
if he was Gwyn's firstborn, he must have had a name, and given the snakepeople connection, Sen makes the most sense
>>336554814
Are you telling me Gwendolin would use lizardmen loyal to his traitorous brother in order to arrange all the prophecy?
Bullshit, the snekmen were created by Seath for shits and giggles and bear no resemblance whatsoever to the snekmen in 3.
>>336555101
>Are you telling me Gwendolin would use lizardmen loyal to his traitorous brother in order to arrange all the prophecy?
obviously they weren't all traitors
makes sense to me that a splinter group didn't warrant genocide
Are you people dumb?
Sen's Fortress = SnakEmeN's Fortress
>Your brother allies with the sworn enemies of your father
>His name is cast away, forever forgotten as he leaves
>Your honorable father goes to link the flame and you are tasked in arranging the next kindle for the fire
>"Yep, I'll name this fortress after my beloved brother"
What's next? Kaathe's flower Garden? Manus theme park?
>>336555508
nameless king left after gwyn linked the flame
perhaps the name had already stuck
>>336547597
What about the second door in anor Londo you faggot.
>>336555687
what's behind it?
>>336555687
How the fuck did you get summoned 30 times for Darkmoon/Blue Sentinels
>>336556070
Equip the BoD while farming silver knights with a luck build.
>>336556070
Luck.
I got summoned 3 times in 10 minutes and it has never happened again
>>336556070
I farmed the silver Knights for 20 hours instead. In that time I only got summoned twice for darkmoon.
>>336556070
I get summoned loads in Anor Londo, Grand Archives, Upper Lothric and Archdragon Peak.
>>336555882
I'm assuming DLC. painted world?
>>336556070
I guess BS/DM will be fixed once they will upgrade the regulation update to app.
>>336555882
nothing
>>336547719
>>336548136
I love his entire monologue. It's one of the most spelled out and informative bits of lore for the entire series.
>b-but he's just lying g-goy
As for why Frampt supposedly wants you to link the fire, I'm still not 100%. It could be as Kaathe says, and that he just really lost his sense and befriended Lord Gwyn, or it's a sort of good cop/bad cop act between the two of them to influence the Chosen Undead.
Regardless, with how easy it is to miss the opportunity to encounter Kaathe on your first playthroughthe game by default guides you along the path of placing the Lordvessel with Frampt before heading to New Londo and beating 4kids, I think it's safe to assume that he's telling the truth and it was a reward for those who went of the beaten path
>>336544351
Yes
Lothric castle, before the Princes
It has little wings in place of arms, with a humanoid looking torso.
Could be a statue of Kingseeker when he and the King were besties.
>>336556520
Hard to fix. You have tons of people who summon 2-3 phantoms. Can you even get a Darkmoon/Sentinel if they're using up the slots on Sunbros?
>>336556623
I thought I saw a video where there was 9 guys fighting. I thought blades got their own slots.
>>336551951
Behind blacksmith Andre
>>336556623
I don't really encounter that many people with summons as much as before anymore.It's like 50/50 chance that i'll end up againts a gank when i am invading.
>>336541573
DUDE NO ! Its an illusion !
i'm pretty sad this is the last souls game
Was it Kaathe that manipulated the lords of cinder to not give a shit about linking the fire?
Just finishing up a blind playthrough where I got the hollow ending.
So Yuria and her babes serve a Primordial Serpent. Is this elaborated on anything I missed or is this pretty much going to be DLC territory?
Kaathe is dead
>>336557182
It's the last Dark Souls but you'd be a fool to think it's the last Souls game.
