What exactly is wrong with F.A.N.G.? I've heard he's the worst fighter by a large margin.
>worst
>not zangief
they fucked up gief in V by taling away his best approach tool
Damage is crap
Speed is crap
Reversals are crapHis players are crap, he's not even bottom 3.
>>336373887
Nobody really figured out how to play him properly yet. He's the Gen of SFV.
>>336373887
But he can turn into a bird.
You have to work too hard to win every round.
You don't hear his theme if you main him.
Damage output is so low that even if you go for a lot of gimmicks and setups it never is worth it when someone like Ryu or Karin can convert their 100% safe normals into huge damage for free.
He can't actually deal with zoners because the recovery and startup on his attacks are massive. No reliable reversal is a death sentence for him especially in the corner.
The poison gimmick is surprisingly trash. The poison ticks for DaS3 tier damage making you just wish your moves did 80% of their max damage upfront and nothing more.
People can jump in on him for free too.
Is there something close to a tier list ? I'm shit at fighting gamesand I don't have a good PC or a recent console anywaybut I like to watch tournaments, and I have no clue who's supposed to be good.
>>336373887
He is badly designed, he is supposed to be a relatively lame char whos main gimmick is to poison you and then lame you out with projectiles and poison traps, but this fails due to the fact that poison does stupidly low damage, and his zoning is horribly slow, in top of being a charge character, which makes it imposibly hard to perform that specific playstyle, since he cant space himself correctly due to charge and most characters have easy reactionable attacks to blow up throug his zoning, ad to this that he has shitty slow normals that in footsies its pretty much immposible to convert into anything, and your only viable option left is to rushdown, and while he has kinda good frametraps, they lead into very low damage and arent that good even compared to the rest of the cast
To top it off, hes has probably the worst v-skill, v-trigger and v-reversal of the game, and your left with a shitty character
>>336375085
Top tier is some combination of Chun, Ryu, Nash, Cammy, and Dhalsim
Bottom tier is some combination of Zangief, Alex, and Fang
Bottom tiers arent unplayable, but they've got a lot of shit they have to deal with
>>336375535
Well put. I tried to main Fang early and gave up with him once I reached Silver. The satisfaction of winning with him just wasn't worth the frustrations of losing. You put a shit ton of effort for such minimum payoff. They need to tweak the numbers on his shit.
>fag and nigger genocider
>gets genocided by fags and niggers
>>336373887
Hes has to work2times more to achieve half as much as the rest of the cast except Rashid.
>>336376784
He really set himself up for failure with the whole 2 minute thing during the trailer.
>198 Seconds! 198 Seconds is all I need!
>>336373887
Same reason why Ken is worse than Ryu: you just have to simply work harder for the same results everyone else gets.
>>336374816
Bitchslaps are a great anti air and so fucking active that you barely need to time them.
>>336377024
Ken's considered really strong right now, maybe even getting up there with Ryu/Chun/Nash because he's got crazy safe pressure that can be confirmed into good damage meterless or fantastic damage if he has v-trigger or ex.
>>336373887
When people get past your gimmick, you lose. That's it, it's that simple.
>>336377029
They also do no damage and if you ever trade or lose to a jump in, half your health is gone. A lot of characters in SFV suffer from this problem.
Characters like Nash, Ryu, and Karin can just go ham on Fang all day for free with nothing to worry about. He has no actually scary tools and if you know his frame data he doesn't even have good gimmicks.
And he really suffers from a poorly thought out moveset. For example, there's really no reason for all of his specials to poison. His v-skill poisoning and then maybe one of his projectiles poisoning would have been more than enough.
His other specials should have gained enhanced properties against poisoned targets. This would have made his moveset make more sense and give you a better gameplan. Rather than try to zone and keepout, he would alternate between zoning and rushdown. He is already better suited to doing that, but he gets no real rewards for it.
And I understand why this did it this way, but poison not being able to kill really makes it hard for him to close matches out.
>>336377158
I never said Ken was bad, just worse than Ryu. Ryu has always been about doing chunks of damage with a few moves, and in a game where damage and stun are naturally high, Ryu will always come out the victor.
>>336373887
He reminds me a bit of Hakan in that he's a specialized character that shows Capcom wants to branch out in their design philosophy, but ultimately SF is just too barebones to allow for it to be effective. Characters like Fang and Hakan would be amazing in GG/BB though
>>336377529
>They also do no damage and if you ever trade or lose to a jump in, half your health is gone. A lot of characters in SFV suffer from this problem.
Oh yeah for sure I'm not gonna argue that, but among the shitty AAs of V, that one's pretty good in that it actually works more than 40% of the time.
>>336377548
Its not about the game its about Ryu having stupid damage.
Ken's got some great damage right now but Ryu is simple and hits like a semi going off a bridge. He also has a better forward dash than Ken for some reason.
Fang probably would have been stronger in a game with hard knockdown. He has quite a few tools to put guessing game pressure on people to force them to guess what side he'll end up on after his command dash, but the ability to actually do it in time against a quickrise is rough and makes it more obvious which side he'll be on.
In SFIV he probably would have been a strong vortex like character.
>hard knockdown from some of his moves
>nishikyu or the poison cloud on wakeup
>one of the dashes
>opponent guesses wrong
>combo into b/f P which would probably hard knockdown
>>336378029
Ever since Ono got in charge Ryu just has to be fucking ridiculous in every game. I don't know how they thought his damage output in SFV would be fair.
>rinse and repeat
>>336374202
>xian is crap
LOL
>>336374072
It feels like Fang and Laura are worse than Zangief, when Gief menages to put your into a corner, it's hell
https://twitter.com/GrahamWolfe1/status/727562482106032129
>Unthrowable on frame 1-2 on wakeup
Oh great at least I'm a little happier to learn I wasnt timing my meaty grabs wrong.
But jesus christ why.
>>336373887
He seems very anti-Guile to me (so does Sim). I would say he has that going for him.
Can CAPCOM nerf Ryu?
He's getting in too much damage with lesser effort than all of the cast
correct me if I'm wrong but almost all of the tournement winners have been Ryu's now in SFV.
>tfw no Birdie in top 8
its a cruel world
Guys how do I get into the secret Dhalsim discords? Damnit if only I was a female.
>>336378758
Are you retarded
Infiltration has been winning nearly everything with Nash.
KSB or whatever that Jap tournament on the weekend was had a Chun mirror for GF.
>>336378758
last big tournament Justin won with Karin, and had 3 kens at top 8, and Birdie as well
>>336378817
Grind your way to platinum or fly to Japan and lend Arturo a stick.
>>336378367
knowing capcom it'll probably get patched out
>>336378301
You know Zangief is bad when fucking Snake Eyez abandons him for Alex.
>>336379402
Haha that would be a smart decision, fuck off.
>>336379527
they've already been patching out OSes, so this seems right up their alley.
>>336378758
But it's always Infiltration who beats Tokido's Ryu in grand finals.
>>336379615
They haven't patched out prejump cancelling to make moves throw invincible and numerous other bugs.
Did they ever fix the Alex bug? I never heard about that.
>>336379419
s-shut up
Why is this thinmint doing magic?
>>336379815
They did not fix it.
>>336378758
ryu has to work to get his damage
his pokes are bad, his meaty is -4 on block, his combo starters have the range of most character's jabs, his only comboable crush counter move is really bad and whiffs crouching, mediocre v trigger
>>336374653
this
>>336381879
You're not using the right buttons.
All CCs are shit and the only use is for punishing DPs for more damage.
His Vtrigger is 2 bars and allows him to become the strongest zoner in the game.
>>336374384
Gen had insane Damage and stun output off of a random st.MK. FANG has nothing like that
>>336382205
wow I haven't added anything to the /v/ fighting games collage in weeks, thanks dude
>>336377643
Except Hakan and Fang come from games with different battle designers, so this comparison doesn't really make much sense. You could argue Fang's gameplay is a mashup of Chipp and Justice, but that still doesn't explain why he's so bad.
>>336382449
Man CCs are all complete trash as frametraps.
>>336382656
only 1 entry per IP, thanks
>>336382716
Tell me a single good CC frametrap.
>playing shotos
GET
>>336382806
you don't use cc moves as frame traps idiot
I doubt you even know what a frame trap is
>>336382935
Yeah you don't because they're fucking garbage.
Slow startup and not enough advantage on other normals to make a tight enough window. On top of that they're usually punishable or just have shitty hitboxes that will get you punished on whiff.
The only reliable use you're going to get out of a CC button is a reversal punish.
>Meaties
Anyone getting counterhit on wakeup is a fucking idiot.
>>336383285
nash, ken, chun li, bison, karin, mika, guile, and I think vega all have safe or + on block cc moves
>>336383635
dont forget birdie, his HK is 0 on block
>>336383635
>Usually
Vega's standing CC (AKA the one that doesnt launch (AKA the useful one)) whiffs on crouch.
>>336383826
I listed half the fucking cast you faggot, and those were just the ones off the top of my head there might be more
>>336384037
I didn't realise 7/18 works out to half.
>>336384160
I listed 8 so congrats you can't count for shit, and then other dude said birdie which I forgot so that's 9
>>336384226
I just told you that Vega's CC whiff on crouch.
>>336384360
ok sick it's still safe on block and reaches like half screen so no one is every going to whiff punish it
>>336382935
Capcom need to stop messing around and put Juri in. Getting kind of tired playing nothing but Karin since everyone else sucks.
Are they really going to put in fucking Guile and Balrog back to back
>>336384425
>Not being excited for boxer
Waifufags plz leave. He's gonna be infinitely more interesting than juri.
>>336384425
Fuck, didn't mean to quote that dude
So I haven't been keeping up with the updates, but are the DLC characters just free? Forever?
Did they fix ragequitting?
I heard there's a ban system on now but I'm not sure if it actually works.
>>336384425
>anime reaction image
>hating on guile and boxer
>juri player
>karin player
Could you be any more of a faggot? Also since they brought back the airforce stage with guile's theme I hope they bring back the best sf2 stage and music this month. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKubwMZxg2M
>>336384690
Free until the zenny (the currency you buy with cash) shop is implemented
>>336384785
Ban people from matchmaking if they ragequit frequently. So the occasional offender doesnt really get punished.
>>336384425
Footfags leave
>>336384360
Oh yeah and only charged Mika HK is safe, Guile's CC is -4, Ken st.hp is -3 on grounded and -4 on launcher and Karin st.hk is -4
>>336384418
It's got insane recovery if you don't get hit (if you crouch), it's a fucking easy whiff punish.
TLDR: Learn to jab punish.
>>336384690
no capcom is actually so clueless that they don't know how to make the cash shop work
>>336384896
omg 20 damage nooooooo
>>336384896
Ken's CCs rather.
st.hp being the grounded CC and st.hk being the launcher.
>>336384567
>boxer
Just say Balrog you fucking Jap cocksucker
And no, unless they pull a Vega and actually make him into a fun character, he'll just be another boring lamer like Guile is
>>336375781
>Big fighting game fan
>Haven't gotten to play SFV yet but excited as hell about Alex
>He's bottom tier
>>336384992
Cancel into a fast special or super.
The point is that CC buttons are shitty and can't be used to reliably bait counterhits and Ryu is not unique in this regard.
>>336385141
>anything reaching vega after he his reset to standing
>confirming a super off one jab
>>336385134
he's not bottom tier, he's just a bit heavy on execution side and shitters say he's bad because they can't get a handle on him
you really have to utilize everything he has to make him work
honestly his power bomb could definitely use a buff but you can absolutely make him work
>>336385274
Yes.
Stop being bad and do both those things.
>>336385481
show me video footage of either of these things happening
>>336384896
Give this man a cookie. In addition Alex's lariot is +3 on block, Lady mika is +3 on block, and Zangief's charged HP is +2.
These moves must be done point blank on someones wakeup because of their startup but if your opponent has no reversal ready they're no brainers.
>>336385453
>heavy on execution side
You don't know what execution means.
Alex is shit because he has pathetic oki after power bomb, no reversal,a 4f jab and shares nearly all Gief's problems.
He can't deal with the gorillas that make up half the cast. Risk reward for jumping in in this game is pretty skewed vs FANG. If you get in once he's done (esp if you're someone like Ryu who can just throw loop him for free all day in the corner)
>>336385065
>unless they pull a vega and actually make him into a fun character
>tfw I played vega in sf4 and cvs2 but I dont like him in sfv
At least they didn't ruin guile besides making booms less safe and taking away invincibility on flash kicks. Vega isn't even the same character any more. You can't zone with your normals well anymore, you just have to take off the claw and do standing MPs like you're playing Makoto now.
>>336384862
I think Balrog will come with the Boxing Ring stage, there is some concept art out there of his and Guile's stages, and what looks to be a FANG temple stage
>>336377529
>They also do no damage
>this nigga can't chp-shinikyu
>>336385567
Jab xx DP xx super
Stop being shit and learn how to play this fucking game, it's not particularly complex.
Alternatively, don't punish and use the - frames as opportunity to start your offense.
CC buttons are shit, learn how to take advantage of them.
>>336385939
>jab into dp
>on vega's st.hp
lol
So, fast-foward are year to when Capcom releases their fast balance patch. Who do you want to see buffed and nerfed? Also post your main and LP for credibility's sake.
>>336385649
Yep, these buttons main issue is how insanely telegraphed they are, almost only useful on knockdown.
Additionally Alex's lariat will whiff on crouch unless he's literally inside you.
>>336386014
Is Vega's st.hp -3?
No.
It's also a really shitty CC.
>>336385134
On the plus side, bottom tier isn't that bad in this game.
>>336373887
As a fang main who got to plat with him, he suffers heavily from 3 issue. Poison damage,3 frame jabs, and blockers.
Poison damage is so fucking low thats it is a non factor against anyone who knows how to fight fang.
3 frame jabs absolutely rape any pressure fang can apply as his best pressure tools have horrendous startup. His st is one of the best buts its only plus 1 on block and his fastest normal is 4 frames meaning at best always will trade.
He really has no way of discouraging players from not holdinh down back. Since he has no overhead he needs to really on hos poison. Sincehis poison damage is ass he cant do shit. The only saving grace is his v skill properties for his poison ball.
He just needs poison buffed and st hk to be plus 2 on block and he will be fine. As of now though, he is garbage.
>Play Ryu because having a fireball is nice
>but I also kinda want to play Cammy
>Ideally a grappler but I hate all of them in V
why is picking a main so hard
>>336386103
4k LP, playing Guile, Alex, Rashid, Vega, Nash
-Take away instant air legs from chun
-Nerf Karin critical art damage
-Nerf Ryu's everything damage, nerf his forward Makoto dash
-Ken and Necalli can stay the same
-Let Vega's cruch counter HK connect with crouchers so I can actually punish Karin's and Chun's DPs because it always whiffs them
-Make Guile's sonic boom recover a few frames faster so it isn't so easy to jump in on
-Either give Nash's HP sonic boom more recovery or tone down his frame traps, there's no reason why he should have a projectile that recovers more quickly than chargers'.
-Take Rainbow Mika out of the game entirely or rework her into a speedy grappler. Her easy 50/50 setups both require no execution and almost always lead into stuns and death. Make her clap more punishable so idiots dont mash it at all times for easy corner vortex.
-Buff everyone else. Every other character requires a substantial amount of work compared to these easy characters to win with. Especially Gief, Laura, and FANG.
>>336387020
Play Ryu.
Grapplers who aren't Mika suck and have to work too hard.
>>336386103
Ryu 3.3k lp
Buff :
Zief, needs more approach
Fang, need more damage
Change :
Mika, she is to much reliant on random stuff, change her so she still remains good but that she won't be fuerte 2.0
Nerf :
Ryu : nerf his damage a little bit, he has too much damage in top of having all those tools
Ken : nerf his damage a little bit as well
Nash : just too fast, nerf his speed a little bit (dash speed mostly)
>>336386103
Predictions (not what I necessarily want):
Chun and Dhalsim will be nerfed to mid-tier, Mika will be nerfed to oblivion. Nash will get minor nerfs and remain high tier. Rashid, FANG and Zangief will get buffed heavily.
>>336386156
do you not understand that you can't do anything after you whiff punish vega's st.hp unless he spaces it really bad or something
>>336387164
I agree with most of this but I think Nash's normals could lose a few advantage frames because his offense is stupid safe.
And give Alex a meterless way to deal with fireballs that doesnt completely fucking suck. Maybe make Vskill projectile crush or something? Would give him a way to build meter that doesnt involve attempting to land a CC.
>>336386103
i feel like if gief just had oh so slightly better walkspeed and his old SPD startup hed be gravey
>>336387164
>nerf nerf nerf take away
pussy baby design philosophy
the only character that needs nerfing is maybe nash and that's debatable
>>336387398
I'm done with you, you can keep moving the goalposts but my point has been made and you've yet to prove a single thing I said wrong.
>>336386821
What is his st.HK on block at the moment? I'm asking since I always get seem to get thrown or my normals get stuffed after blocking it
>>336387605
thanks for conceding, it was really getting embarrassing
>>336387503
actually I take it back
that's not debatable, the block advantage he has on his normals is fucking stupid
>>336387503
Ryu's damage needs to take a hit for sure and IAL is not a mechanic that should be in this game.
Given that you cant TK legs it seems more likely that was an oversight.
Ryu also should not have the best forward dash in the game and most AAs need some substantial buffs.
>>336387503
I just feel like a lot of these characters have too many tools. Many times I feel like I'm playing mahvel or a vs fighter and not street fighter just because of how many options some characters have over others. If you don't like my philosophy I can also get behind buffing the shit out of everyone else, but that would make the game even crazier.
>>336387465
Nash is supposed to be a hit and run character I think? I guess that explains his absurd dashes, but his frame data and advantage on his normals are better than some of this game's rushdown characters and he has a more quickly recovering sonic boom than Guile. He does both zoning and rushdown better than much of the cast on top of having the best mobility. On the bright side, he doesn't have a true reversal so he can still get scrubbed on by Mika players.
>>336387712
BEE TEE EFF OH holy fuck you just fucking mcrekt that faggot damn i need to call the police
As a F.A.N.G main I can say that there is one simple fact that holds him back
He need an invincible reversal that ISN'T SUPER. other characters without invincible reversals tend to have at least an armored one and are usually higher damage while fang is as free as the day is long in any mixup situation and converts like 150 damage off of an average punish
>>336373887
>he's the worst fighter
Zangief. Birdie is pretty low tier as well.
>>336387657
Plus 1 on block. Plus 6 on hit.
>>336387978
Bison's only reversal is super, ahe has no armored moves
>>336386103
I want them to buff birdie very slightly, namely reduce the recovery (or startup) of chains, and make his v-skill a little bit faster.
>>336374202
>His players are crap
Xian and Sonicfox? I don't think so.
Just let this heap of garbage game die in peace.
>>336387978
He does. He has ex dash teleport. Fully hit invincible from frame 1.
>>336388085
Yes, but he loses on the defensive anyway. He is based around keeping pressure on the opponent and never getting pushed out.
He is probably the most easily zoned character in the game
>>336388194
you can be thrown out on reaction
>>336388038
Birdie is nowhere near low tier, he's midtier at best.
Godlike neutral game, lots of damage, amazing v-trigger, only thing is that he crumbles hard under any sort of pressure.
>>336387949
Honestly I dont know what the fuck Nash is meant to be, his kit seems to be geared towards rushdown (+ approach special, advantageous normals, fast overhead, air throw) but he can back off just as easily and zone people out with his booms and SLEW of AA normals that actually work.
>>336388114
Honestly Birdie seems like the most well balanced character in the game right now.
I wouldn't say no to having Bullhorn become slightly invincible given its hold and release nature but it should be Balrog headbutt in sfiv tier.
>>336385134
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/may/02/alex-not-bad-character-people-are-underselling-him-lpn-first-player-take-alex-top-eight-capcom-pro-tour-event/
>>336388364
Nash just feels like a very confused character design in this game. And I say that with even more confidence now that I've played him for a couple of weeks.
>>336388256
Not on reactionbut its not throw invincible. He has tge means to escape. You just need tobe smart.
The only things that are really needed right now are sightly faster command grabs to make them more intimidating and force the opponent to backdash/jump instead of mashing jabs and giving F.A.N.G a way to hard kd to setup okizemes.
>>336388541
>Nash has better Guile normals than Guile
What the fuck were they thinking
>>336388082
Really? that doesn't seem too bad to me at all
>>336388616
Also fix the 2f throw invincibility on wakeup, that's inexcusable.
I see no reason why big command throws (Gief, Alex) shouldn't be 3f.
>>336386103
Ryu main, 3125 LP
Ryu needs everything nerfed
Zangief desperately needs green hand
Make Birdie's chain grabs faster
Less throw escape frames, there is no reason any character should be able to jab out of being thrown
Remove all invincible reversals, if not every character has one then no one should have one
Basically, make it harder for me to win. I did barely any work for these points.
>>336388616
Fangs sweep does that for him and more. Its the best sweep in the game maybe only karin can give it a run for its money.
>>336388364
>but he can back off just as easily and zone people out with his booms and SLEW of AA normals that actually work.
to to mention he has a get out of corner free card in v-trigger/reversal. Move back and spam fireballs, rinse, repeat.
>>336388569
No, it just means you are insanely vulnerable to jab/throw mixups on wakeup. I do it as ken all the time, meaty jab and react to the hit or whiff to throw or b+mp
>>336388635
>Nash's spin knuckle crumples and also doesn't whiff on crouchers
I dunno, but I have to say I'm enjoying Guile the most out of all the characters I've been playing in this. He's just too much fun.
>>336388667
It crumples his pressure game so hard against anyone with a 3 frame normal since he fucking marches so far forward you are guaranteed to be in jab ranges if you use ut when it was intended to be used at optimal ranges.
>>336388261
>only thing is that he crumbles hard under any sort of pressure.
The biggest issue. Birdie loyal, but when half the cast has very crazy mixup and pressure options, Birdie's going to need a bit more than just V-reversal as a tool to get him competing. I'm for a Bullhorn buff as >>336388364 said.
>>336379419
Alex does better against Gief's shittiest MUs like Nash, Sim and now Guile.
But I think Alex does worse in the others MUs desu.
Still, a character as slow moving and bullyable as Zangief won' win any world class events, he needed either more mobility or better defensive options, like a better lariat that could be used like SFIV's, or maybe both.
So I guess there won't be no Zangief winning premiers or CPT/EVO until he gains either of those buffs.
>>336388740
Only on CC, and considering c.hk is unsafe it doesn't really have that much use.
>>336388842
Then just block? Meaty normals are fine for fang. Block then v reversal or just wait. If you play fang or guile you have to be comfortable sitting in the corner.
>>336388725
everyone thinks im bullshitting them when i say Ryu needs nerfing
799 LP, Birdie main
i honestly cant leave bronze thanks to Ryu
>inb4 lowskill
obviously, but its really unfair for the Ryu players with the same skill level to advance to upper brackets thanks to thier character pick alone
>>336389062
And guess what, then they throw you
Who would have thought that teching would come in to play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niMQJ8Td4GA
>>336389036
Very few moves cause hardknockdowns on cc in this game. Thats not an issue exclusive to fang. Guile comes to mind.
>>336389167
What are you getting at exactly? Fang has the means to escape the corner easily. Only bad players cant utilize his tools todo it.
>>336389089
>799 LP
Birdie Main, 3750LP, git gud. ryu is easy peasy.
>>336388887
One of the main issues Alex shares too but at least EX bullhead is much better than EX slash elbow, especially in trigger. I'm pretty sure it's armoured from frame 1.
But yeah, Rog's headbutt in IV is a good idea of what Horn should be, it can work and it does work but it is NOT a DP.
>>336389089
>799 LP Birdie
I'm gold and all I had to do for most of my matches was waiting for my opponent to do something stupid and punish accordingly. Birdie is a monster at low level play, learn to be patient.
Alex main, 900 LP
I have no idea how to pressure with him. Hardest match ups are nash with the occasional Karin. Also fought a Laura that whooped my ass.
I feel like i need to play Alex like guile and be more reactive because when I try to just do stuff, I get really predictable. I rarely use stomp but headbutt has its occasional use after baiting out the fireball
>>336389325
Have you played fang? corner is death, ex dash is a 100% hard read that takes away from his other ex and super while also losing to good reaction time
>>336389463
Which is fine, considering that Birdie has some useful anti-air options. But the issue becomes getting out of pressure. His normals aren't fast enough and the only real tool he has at times is wasting V-meter. Now, his trigger isn't do or die, but it certainly buffs him up enough.
>>336390046
Forgot to mention something about Alex >>336389463 is that the dude has a lot of frame traps.
Also, another option Birdie has is headbutt, but I wouldn't necessarily call that a reliable tool under pressure...lp headbutt is certainly a useful punish on reaction though.
>>336389802
See>>336386821
Thats me.
>>336388725
Just strapping green hand on current Gief and calling it a day wouldn't do shit LMAO. He needs to get better okizeme out of his SPD mid-screen, he needs better defensive tools so he won't be bullied on his wake-up non-stop, he and Birdie share this very same trait, they have huge bodies, very easy to bully on wake-up, but nothing to keep people thinking, he needs his SFIV and earlier Lariat back.
Birdie wasn't designed to be get meaty cmd throws out of his cmd throws, this is Zangief's shtick, Birdie is fine as he is if you ask me, he is more of a zoner archetype, his cmd grab is more of a "you came too close, gtfo of here" tool, if he were to get a slight buff it would be to his reversal game.
Everything else you said was even more absurd. Ryu could be given a slight damage nerf, and that's all.
As for >>336373887
FANG needs more damage, a good buff for him would be having his currently worthless V-trigger's poison stack with his normal poison, doubling its DoT, AND also making his currently worthless V-skill also stack with his other poisons, so this way FANG would have 3 different poisons that would stack on top of each other but the v-skill one would still have a lower duration while being removable when landing a hit, the normal one would still be removable on hit, while the v-trigger one would be still constantly re-applied by the v-trigger.
>>336389183
I don't get it
>>336390397
Fang's v skill is not worthless. Its one of his best pressure tools.
>>336389797
Use your lariat a lot.
That's the main thing, it's +3 and sets up your only good mixup of st.mp or powerbomb.
Slash elbow is pretty good if you space it, EX stomp CAN be used for fullscreen pressure if you're smart since it's +2. st.hp xx h chop or st.mp xx m.chop are frametraps that beat jabs but they're -4 so be smart about them, most people arent punishing them but they CAN be punished and even if not you're giving up offense.
Any throw is a free lk slash elbow and you can't dash in without being crazy negative so unless you managed to get someone so scared they won't punish always just slash elbow.
Cr.mp is a godlike poke and you'll be pressing it a LOT, it punishes nearly everything that becomes safe because of spacing and has a great hitbox that will beat tons of buttons, also whiff punishes like a motherfucker. Learn to confirm cr.mp xx trigger, st.mp xx sledgehammer xx backdrop, it's easy damage off a poke.
Cont...
>>336390778
Alex suffers in that once he's landed his power bomb he's pretty much back to playing neutral.
VSkill is useless and never use it outside of post stun combos.
Knee drop gives a free dash in st.mp that's completely safe and meaty.
Stomps all give hard knockdown so CAPITALISE.
>>336390554
If the enemy is already poisoned, the v-skill does absolutely nothing. Enemies can simply ignore it.
That is why I gave the suggestion of having it stack with the other poison sources.
>>336390325
Then you should know that the corner is a blender where fang has no right choice
>>336390985
The point is it gives him a shit load of meter which lets him get his actually damaging combos off of common confirms
>>336390985
Its a good idea to have it stack but against good players, v skill is the only way you are going to poisonthem.
>>336373887
His design is fucking shit. He looks like some one-off goofy villain from the original Dragonball.
>>336391014
No i dont agree. Fang has goodnormals to keep people at bay and has great tools to get out. If you cant handle a little pressure in the corner with fang them you dont need to play him. Play a character with a dp.
>>336391238
Speak for yourself, I love that part of him. SF has too many serious characters anyway.
>>336390538
I believe it's just showing how Guile can just keep doing that and there's no good way for Gief to get in.
>>336391508
You can sweep the vskill.
>>336391508
Well he didn't show Gief attempting anything, though I figured as much.
Wouldn't lariat or flex beat sonic beyblade?
>>336391357
Totally agree. Honestly he feels like the Faust of Street Fighter design wise so I'm pretty glad they finally added a character like that to the game. Cause usually the goofy designs are pretty shit for street fighter, but I'm glad FANG isn't one of them
>>336391341
He has exactly two good normals in the corner st.lp and cr.mp and cr.mp is -2 so it gives up any pressure you are building
any character with a solid aa can just wait you out since you literally can't use specials outside of a hard read
>>336391508
Snake eyez severely over estimates guilesbooms. They are still good but theynerfed his recovery really fucking hard compared to 4. Im noticing things i could get away with in 4 are not the case in 5.
>>336388507
>damage control: the article
BUFF LAURA ALREADY!!!!
>>336374816
>People can jump in on him for free too.
This is not true at all FANG has THE best AA's in the game, its about the only thing he has going for him.
Should I just go with Ryu if I don't really like anyone else
>>336391719
No he also has st mp. St jab into st mp cancel first hit into ex teleport is a guaranteed way out. Let the st mp rock for both hits allows the opponent to get pushes out more.
You dont understand fang on the same level i do. Until you learn how to be comfortable in the corner, you will never get better with fang.
>>336391635
Or use his own v-skill
Or jab SPD him
Snake Eyez just wanted to drop Zangief, so this is his way of telling his fans that this match-up is impossible.
Well, FAB could still win big events or place well in them even during the 1.00 Potemkin phase, even before the first balance patch, when the character was completely worthless, but Snake Eyez was forced to switch even through his own case wasn't even nearly as bad, I guess this says a lot about the players eh?
>>336392167
Just because you play shit players doesn't mean I do
>>336384425
dumb bratposter
>>336374816
Fang has the best aa's in the game. The best. Cr hp for directly above. Cr mk for angled and st hp/st mk for far jumps.
There isno way to approach fang by jumping outside of wakeup.
>>336392258
I play up to ultra plat players in my bracket kid. I also play offline playeta like chris tatarian and the cali crew.
>>336391635
The point was gief has to make a split decision to either try and hit guile and potentially eat like 100 damage from a boom or jump and potentially eat a cr.hp
he can't even vskil if guile has meter because vskill absorbs 2 hits and ex boom would resolve before you can react and walk forward to get the added armor
>>336392532
How much of Valle's coke have you bought
>>336390778
>>336390906
Wow thanks for the tips anon. Screencapped.
I use his cr mp all the time, along with st mk. I'll work on my training.
>>336392532
Yes, the legendary WNF fang that no one has heard of
>>336392652
Nigga all about da green man.
>>336392626
Wait for the cr.hp to whiff then bop that fucker.
Now I ain't saying it's an ideal situation but its reactable and will make the player a little more anxious about throwing it out.
>>336386103
Unranked - I only really play friends, so my knowledge is fairly limited to the characters I have some experience with.
-Birdie: increase knockup on command grab, giving him a bit more time to do something after landing one.
-Cammy: give her an overhead
-Laura: give her an overhead, maybe let projectiles stay for a few frames after she is hit
I play Karin and Ken and I can't really think of things I'd change for them. Maybe reduce Karin's CA damage a bit, she has extremely consistently high damage.
>>336392740
I dont go to thursday morning fights because i have a job during the week. We cant all live off mommy.
>>336378293
xian is good but watch cross counter with him, the character is weak
>>336392201
I can't remember whether this was true for Xrd launch, but Potemkin always had the potential for stupid damage, it was just incredibly unlikely to pull off since the planets had to align and shit.
>>336392167
>St jab into st mp cancel first hit into ex teleport is a guaranteed way out
jab into mp only works on CH and EX dash is throwable
>>336392893
I agree but the dude said that xian was bad
>>336392848
>We cant all live off mommy.
Man, is the a single statement that has more salt than this one?
>>336392802
Laura has an overhead. V-skill
>>336392950
Its not a hit string its a block string.
>>336393030
Her V Skill is a dash, that overhead is fucking garbage slow, and ends up even on hit. I guess if we're going to call it her overhead to at least make it plus something on hit like her LK Elbow.
>>336392967
Your the one going off topic about this. I was only trying to help. If you cant take crticism without getting so defensive then thats on you.
>>336392920
Everyone puts that title for FAB webms
>>336393094
Then they can just throw you out of EX dash, its not guaranteed at all
>>336393178
No its not just a dash. Hit her vskill in a neutral position on your stick and she immediatly goes into the overhead.
His whole character revolves around sustained damage, and unless you keep it up, he isn't worth playing. They either need to increase his damage over time with the poison, or increase the damage of his normals.
>>336393207
your help summed up to "make a guess"
>>336393178
It's still something you can use to close out a round. Especially if you conditioned them to block low a bunch.
>>336393272
No they cant. Not while they are in blockstun.
You are missing the point anyway. Its one of his many tools to escape the corner. Not his main one.
>>336392802
>let projectiles stay for a few frames after she is hit
No.
This is the stupidest shit in every game and is part of why I hate playing against V Skill happy Birdies, he shouldnt have fucking punish-punish combos.
Laura's projectile trades enough as it is.
Who /bonita/ here?
>>336393345
Exactly. Thats how fang is. He has reversals but not the kind you want or like. Again tru a dp character first before you go into the advance stuff withfang.
>>336393554
Nah, I'll stick with the worst character in the game thank you very much
>>336393293
>>336393374
Yes, and the overhead takes 22 frames to start and is -7 on block. That is well over the threshold any player should have to be able to stand block on reaction, and then generally get a strong punish for.
I don't know, I guess it's not out of standard for the other overheads to take that long, I just don't think I've ever been hit by her overhead, and it gets you absurdly stronger punishes than any other overhead.
>>336393403
They can, also if you are in the corner you likely be forced into blocking and wont have enough advantage to even use your jab.
Hitting buttons is a no no, block v-reverasl or get a read with super.
Is Guile the most anime character?
>all these people wanting nerfs for Ryu, Ken, R. Mika, etc.
So are we just cool with Dhalsim or what?
>>336393645
Then dont complain that he doesnt have the type of answers you want in the corner.
This is one of those times you need to learn to adapt.
>>336393767
The problem was never the corner, it's that he is 100% free to pressure and the corner only makes it worse
>>336393670
I dont think you understand why the fact a mobile grappler character even has an overhead is good.
>>336393749
holy shit this game looks like ass
>>336393752
I dont even know what to change about sim besides making tk yogafire not retarded +.
If you change too much you end up with SFIV Sim.
>>336393749
is this combo simply to waste time?
>>336393670
22 frames is slightly faster than average for this game and people get hit by chuns 26 frame overhead all the time
>>336393705
Again its only one tool. If they meaty either v reversal or block or raw ex dash.
>>336393959
Sometimes people want to make the weakest possible combo man
>>336393959
The webm he linked is a waste of time, dogshit combo. This on the otherhand is definitely worth the effort https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCOGV-mzN-4
Its hard to do this in a match because the charge timings are consistently tight but its obviously very strong.
>>336394049
well it's not weak if you're being lame with the clock
>>336393861
He is not 100% free to pressure. Pressure on him os not what makes him bad. He has things that can handle pressure. Ithe other factors that are the problem.
>>336393959
That's unoptimised, the optimal combo takes even more time (Around 20 seconds with no jump in) and does way more damage.
st.hp has absolutely ridiculous hit stop.
>>336393964
26 frames that is completely safe on block.
>>336393863
An overhead that has such an obvious animation and is insanely unsafe on block. I just fail to see the use of it at all when all it possibly leads to is getting punished.
>>336393985
Sure its an option but its not guaranteed like you claimed.
>>336394171
It's aggravated by his inability to properly deal with pressure
take bison. He has possibly the worst time in the entire game dealing with pressure but that's fine because he deals a shit load of damage
>>336391927
>tfw I just Double Perfected a Super Silver Laura
>>336384891
>zenny
>buy with cash
>implying you buy in game money to by DLC when you can just buy the characters as DLC with real money
Gunna ShitPost Git It Rite
>>336394337
Thats why you cant advance. Its not a tool you use often. You throw it out at best twice a match.
>>336394391
It is. Play test the lab for a bit to get the right feel for it.
>>336394434
Hea not a character you can just mess around with. You need to be able to adapt on the fly with fang.
>>336394337
It can anti air and CCs for usually at least a sweep followup.
Plus landing it builds you dickloads of nigger trigger.
It's just a different overhead, kind of like Abel's wheelkick.
>>336393541
I am, but goddamn playing Laura is rough for me. Reached Silver with her and now I don't know how to improve upon my gameplan.
I'm a Guile main from USFIV and I'm thinking wtf did they do to this character?
>>336394725
You can adapt all you want but on average you need around 2/3 of your reads to go right to win a round since has like one winning matchup and that's alex
>>336378301
As a Laura main (albeit only gold) I can say with confidence that she is much better than gief. Mostly better normals, better mobility, better/more varied setups and stronger mixup
>>336381879
>his meaty is -4 on block
nigga what meaty are you using
>>336383285
You have no clue what you're talking about
>>336394725
Its not mp doesn't leave them in enough block stun to get through completely safely with EX dash.
They aren't going to react to it but if they know its coming they can throw you out of it.
Its not guaranteed it has risk.
>>336394954
They made him a mahvel character on v-trigger: >>336394068
>>336394978
You right but notbecause of his lack of answers to pressure. Its that and the fact poison game and his tools lack damage and substance.
>>336381879
Dude on someone's wake up do the 2 hit Axe kick, that shit is ~ZERO~ on block and gives you time to confirm into st.LK and then tatsu if your lazy or HP. SRK and Super if your a boss.
There is a reason Pros unanimously rate Ryu high tier.
>>336386103
Main: Was Birdie for a long time, very recently took the Sanford advice and picked Nash.
LP: Just hit Gold, 4100~
Chun-Li:
IA Legs either becomes not a confirm or becomes -1 or less on block. Having both advantage on block and a combo if it hits is redonc, it has the strength of moves like Mika's st. HK and Nash's Moonsault with much less of the startup and marginally no risk unless you're facing a very fast reacting Ryu. This move is one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing Birdie.
Alex: fw. HP's low hitbox extended out further, command grab becomes 5 frames and/or ex command grab gets grab immunity, stomps have wider hurtboxes that come out faster, cr. MP xx Sledgehammer works. st. Jab being 3 frames would be cool but mostly fluff.
>>336395440
Dont bother.
Roo shitters won't admit that he has everything and a bag of chips.
>>336389089
Birdie destroys Ryu, learn to use Bull Horn in neutral to punish fireballs on easy reaction.
>>336373887
He does no fucking damage, he's one of the harder characters to play, his poison doesnt stack and does pitiful damage over time, his anti-air is only great in certain situations, his poking tools are mediocre at best, and he has no reversal options.
>>336395504
LP and EX grab ARE 5 frames.
>>336390906
I disagree with VSkill being useless outside of post stun combos. It's situational, but if you have VTrigger activated and you land a confirm with any of his far reaching normals (primarily cr.mp/st.mk) you can confirm into Sledgehammer for his usual VTrigger combo/reset. Also, having VSkill stocked up and landing a st.hk in neutral if the opponent is trying to out footsie you or whiff their normals can be a game changer.
All very situational, but with Alex's huge stun output you really only need a few opportunities to take a round.
>>336395381
The point of fang was to be slippery and impossible to lock down due to his mobility and zoning, basically they wanted him to be what dhalsim is
as it turns out that mobility doesn't prevent you from getting your ass pounded by safe pressure since he has no concrete way out of it
>>336384425
Cancerous waifufags need to be purged.
>>336394920
Engage in setplay, learn how to use a frame trap vs. grab gameplan. A simple frame trap game can basically get you into gold. Also counterpoke with cr. HP.
>>336387712
Not that guy but everything you said was wrong and made you seem like a shitter
>>336395621
Bull horn isn't even his best fireball punish though. Reacting with dolphin dive is much more efficient. Not to mention that v-reversal is there, ex and regular chain does it, and so does bullhead in trigger.
>>336392375
That's the problem, he has to choose. He cant be fucking Dhalsim and hit standing jab for anti-airing everything in a 360 radius above his head when if anyone needs that kind of thing it's FANG.
>>336395783
Yes he does. His fucking ex dash and v reversal let him do that. You have to be smart in how you use them. Thet meaty jab? Sont fucking v reversal, block.
>>336395728
You only mentioned one use for V skill and to be honest its a really awful one.
Nobody competent is going to eat a st.hk.
You don't even really have a safe setup to pop vskill out.
