>past Mario RPG series
>fresh takes on the Mario universe with interesting and original characters all around
>modern Mario RPG series
>homogenized with only standard Mario characters, story is noticeably less fleshed out.
>even characters getting replaced in the M&L series like Toadworth with Toadette and Popple with Nabbit.
This was most apparent with Paper Jam, of course. Popple was fun to interact with, and nabbit is ironically stealing his role, unfortunately. Yeah, seeing old bosses and enemies like King Bob-Omb and Charging Chuck come back was cool, but this is forboding. Even in the newer Paper Mario series' it is present. Are you okay with the changes?
>Mario RPG with just Mario shit
>STILL NO WARIO OR WALUIGI
WHY?
>>336373273
Mario RPGs are dying
I think Color splash might be the biggest nail in the coffin the way things are looking and unlike some of the other IPs we don't have a person that could jump in and bring it back to glory
Why aren't there Mario RPG fangames? It's not like they'd be hard to write
>>336373993
There was that one Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Sages that was really good.
>Wario + Waluigi as antagonists
>M&L + Bowser
>Pit of 100 Trials
I enjoyed it.
As a M&L fan, I actually didn't mind them using old Mario characters as long as it is for one game. If they do the same the next game then I think I'll pass.
They said the NSMB shit in PJ was because they didn't want the story to turn into a giant mess. PJ was boring anyways and they could be lying but I wouldn't be worried until they do something like Mario & Luigi & Nabbit for the next game
There's no saving Paper Mario at this point though.
>>336373273
Reminder Paper Jam had a basic story and only used established characters because they didn't want to risk fucking up the crossover.
Remember Dream Team still had a totally original world with new characters. And the next game likely will be the same.
Paper Mario is fucked though.
>>336374404
>Mario & Luigi & Nabbit
That would be kinda cool.
Nintendo has no creative control over AlphaDream, they said as much in Dream Team's Iwata Asks, and reaffirmed that in Paper Jam's developer interview.
Paper Jam's conventional blandness was on AlphaDream's own part to keep the crossover grounded. Future M&L titles will go back to originality (they even specifically mentioned wanting to bring Toad Town back)
>>336374339
>>336374404
This is what im worried about.
Dream Team had a slew of original shit and while the homogenization is ok the first time for PJ, im worried about the very real chance of them doing it again. I've accepted the fact that we'll have to deal with Koopalings as mini-bosses from now on, but when the entire game is so very foreseeable then im not sure.
>>336373273
Color Trash is already confirmed shit (the game is basically Sunshine RPG but Mario and Peach travel with a generic red Toad, not Toadsworth. Bravo Tanabe), if the next M&L is generic as Paper Jam I'm officialy done with these series.
Someone post that Paper Toadette "I guess this is goodbye" picture
The reason for this is because Nintendo realized they had two Mario RPG series that didn't really have any difference. Sure, there ARE differences, but it's not much.
That's why Paper Mario was significantly changed. It was the lower selling of the two series so it was turned into more of a really basic RPG, kind of like Kirby's Epic Yarn was for platformers.
That's also why Paper Jam happened, it was Nintendo giving fans of the old Paper Mario a good sendoff.
I don't care for Sticker Star at all but I have no problem with it becoming the more experimental series while M&L continues to be the main Mario RPG series, they're better than every post-TTYD Paper Mario anyway.
Remember in Paper Jam, when you meet that Goomba in the prison under the island and he's all "hey, remember me? I'm that Goomba you fought twice in the beginning of the game"
All they had to do was put a hat on that fucker. Or even just palette him. NSMB-ification honestly boggles my mind.
>>336374572
grounded in shit
they could have done so much more but the entire game was toad hunting and "oh no bowser did thing let's backtrack"
at least the final boss was kinda cool i guess
>>336374572
>Toad Town
i'd honestly prefer a whole new location like in SSS and DT. Thats one of the reasons those are my favourites.
...I still miss Geno.
>>336375067
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-HvJpJ1TFU
>>336374984
>NSMB-ification honestly boggles my mind.
thats the joke
>>336375032
DT has fantastic locations, the best of the series, it's a huge shame the game itself is annoying due to the forced gyro controls and too many tutorials.
>>336375170
I hate you.
>>336375192
honestly the forced gyro only bothered me at the zeekeeper.
and at the second area the tutorials died down and didn't bother me too much.
Paper Jam just was not fun when you knew everything that was gonna happen next. Was there not one boss that came as a surprise?
>>336375532
the charging chucks came out of nowhere and they were kinda fun to fight
>>336374984
I think the point of that joke was he's supposed to be indistinguishable from the other goombas.
"hey, remember me? I'm henchman #176! Good times."
>>336375192
The gyro isn't that big of a deal. It's used just in 3 bro attacks out of 15 and in 3 giant battles.
I'll take it over the stylo being required constantly in BIS.
Post themes for future M&L games
>Mario has FLUDD, Luigi has the Poltergust
>MARIO & LUIGI, CLEAN FREAKS
>>336375532
The only thing I liked about that game were the bosses.
What a letdown.
>>336373273
>even characters getting replaced in the M&L series like Toadworth with Toadette and Popple with Nabbit.
I don't get it, Nabbit is still rather a fresh original character who is barely used for anything or characterized but when he is used, it's bad? Is it because he came from NSMB?
And I highly doubt he replaced Popple, Popple was in fucking Dream Team for fucks sake. Same for Toadsworth and Toadette, who hadn't appeared in a spinoff with "big" NPC role since like TTYD.
I almost guarantee it's just a one time thing.
>>336373273
I hope they make a zelda Paper rpg.
The next M&L games has already been confirmed to be going back to normal Mario RPG affair. Fret not.
>>336374568
Agreed
>>336376157
Where?
>>336375607
I had a rough time of it and couldn't tell if I was supposed to lose or not.
I do like that you can win quickly in the rematch by killing them all at once so they can't summon more though.
>>336375637
Neat idea. Maybe go back to the tropical setting too. Include E. Gadd in the plot and have Il Piantissimo in for racing minigames.
>>336375637
Mario&Luigi&Yoshi
Mario&Luigi&Peach&Rosalina
Mario&Luigi&DK
Mario&Luigi&Wario
>>336375637Peach & Daisy & Rosalina
Why would I be worried about M&L if the most recent entry has the best gameplay in the series and fine-tuning in all the right places (the way bonus challenge points are handled, boss refights with actual criteria instead of just a turn limit etc.)
I'm throughly excited for the next game. In fact, I'm not sure how Alphadream can top PJ save for refining the giant fights (Papercraft battles were lackluster, but 3D movement is a nice step forward)
They said themselves they only used established characters in Paper Jam because of the "collision of worlds" thing and wanting to show two sides to characters we already know or some shit.
Also Toadette and Nabbit were nothing like Toadsworth and Popple besides being a specific NPC Toad and being a thief respectively.
>>336375637
I'm surprised those haven't been bros attacks yet.
Maybe they aren't sure what to do with them.
>>336374774
>RPG
I think that's giving it a little too much credit there
>>336375637
>tropical
>haunted
>polluted
Trash ghosts
>>336373273
What's the fate of Mario in general is the more pressing question. Every branch of the series seems to become steadily more homogenous to NSMB style, including the RPGs.
>>336374664
read >>336374404
, >>336374478
and >>336374572
>>336378883
Story is just a burden.
Starfox and Metroid in particular would be so much better if they just kept the stories barebones cliche/atmospheric respectively.
>>336375994
>Is it because he came from NSMB
probably.it seems people here have a problem with newer characters being put in more games in general,like Rosalina
>>336376346
Developer interview on Miiverse with Alpha Dream
>>336377410
how about an actual interesting story with interesting characters, like the previous 4 games. I will agree that PJ had the best gameplay in the series though.
>>336375994
Fun fact: Toadette has yet to appear in a main series game.
>>336381019
Fun fact:Waluigihas yet to appear in a main series game.
>>336381019
There was a toadette in Mario Galaxy's intro
>>336381136
when will this nigga finally get some love, geezinb4 Waluigi amiibo
>>336381385
>Mario series amiibo announced with release of MP10
>hoping, WISHING for a Waluigi amiibo
>mfw i realize that the amiibo are really just mario series, not mario party, so Waluigi will stay in his corner withorange peach
>>336380618
It had the best combat, but the level design is subpar and there was far too much backtracking. And of course the minigames breaking the pacing.
And the papercraft battles were just bad and flawed on a conceptual level.
>>336381874
But they had alternate battles where giants duke it out the past two games now so clearly that's a thing they have to have in every game now for some reason?
>>336375637
>Starlow's people, the Star Sprites, are in a feud and need the Bros's help
>they get sent to space and bounce across various planet settings
>it turns out they are feuding with Rosalina and her Luma entourage
>the combat gimmick of the game involves Mario/Luigi and their cosmic doppelgangers
>since Starlow has important plot business going on, she spends less time being the exposition fairy
>the final boss iscosmic Bowser
>Mario and Luigi: Total Space Case
>>336382023
>>336373273
I want MUH FUKIN BROS ATTACKS GODDAMN
Why can't we get Bros attacks AND Bros Items?
One is a infinite resource with variable effects (Adv. commands) but relies on a recharging energy meter and the other are consumables that have MASSIVE damage potential if you can keep them going
Bros attacks also made overworld movement more dynamic - and Partners in Time even had that spiffy roll move that made you sanic fast
Bros Attacks with the addition of 2 more buttons would make for some great combinations/variations
Give me that with Wario+Waluigi as a recurring rival boss/mirror match and I'll be fucking SOLD.
That's why Popple&Rookie were so memorable
>That was our bros. attack. see!
Shit was fukin great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3KWrUpGe_4
And I'd really like a story with a bit of nuance. SSS actually had some neat as fuck twists
>>336374404
>>336374478
I just don't see how having a more interesting plot would fuck up the crossover. Like, would it have really ruined everything if they had characters unique to the two series? I figured that's what people would want out of a crossover anyway, otherwise it's just "Mario meets Mario", and if that's the case what's even the point of the whole thing?
>>336383273
Its revealed that Wario and Waluigi come from a mirror world to which the gate between has broken open so it's up to Mario and Luigi to team up with Wabowser to defeat Wario, Waluigi,
Bowser and Wapeach.
>>336383410
I think they wanted to avoid cringey fanfiction-tier shit like
>CACKLETTA IS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD AND TAKES OVER GRODUS' BODY WHILE SHE TEAMS UP WITH THE DARK STAR TO FUCK COUNT BLECK IN THE ASS
They said they had a ton of ideas but couldnt decide on one that worked so they just played it safe.
>>336383551
aaaaaand now it's ruined
>>336381019
She appeared in Captain Toad, whether or not that's main series (since Captain Toad himself appears in Galaxy and 3DWorld as an original main character) is debatable but it's not like she's some toybox secondary tier like Daisy or Waluigi.
On the other hand, I can't remember Toadsworth ever being playable ever in anything. Except Sluggers I think.
Think about it.
>controlling an army of Mini Marios
>Luiginary-like bros attacks
would be pretty cool
>>336383870
this is actually a top tier idea.
>>336383870
This game could be the Kirby: Planet Robobot of the M&L series with all the mechanizing of things, only instead of robots, it's windup toys.
>>336383601
They could have avoided that without completely removing everything that made the settings unique, and really, even if they did go full fanfiction, who cares? Crossovers are all about unabashed fanservice anyhow, and I'd take it over "Bowser kidnaps Peach... Again" any day of the week.
Honestly Paper Jam was pretty good. Though I feel like they could've done more. I could honestly give them a pass on the papery bullshit and the non-unique characters because
A) They actually used a good number of characters that didn't appear in a Mario and Luigi game
B) The whole Paper/Skin dynamic meshed pretty well. (yes, my niece refers to Mario as "Skin Mario")
>>336384124
hey i'm not part of the team. Like I said, they played it safe because they couldnt decide on a good crossover story.
>>336384124
How about: bowser and bowser kidnap peach and peach?
instead of being kidnapped, Peach is your third party member and her emotions change based on how you're doing, altering her abilities.
Mario & Luigi & Super Princess Peach
>>336384256
Just seems like a poor excuse to me, and given the rest of the Mario franchise has become so standardized it makes it hard to look at it as just a simple and benign decision.
