The difference between a Refined Dark Sword +10 and a Fume Ultra-Greatsword +5 is 117 AR
The difference between a Refined Dark Sword +10 and a Refined Claymore +10 is 58 AR (Claymore has no hyper armor btw)
The difference between a Refined Claymore +10 and a Fume Ultra-Greatsword +5 is 59 AR
Do you think hyper armor is a good enough trade-off for the minuscule damage increase, major weight increase, and having to use double the stamina to swing?
Does this feel fair to you, /v/?
What should be changed?
>>336330451
Magic needs to get un-fucked. Then you meleefags can bitch.
>>336330451
yeah, it is a good tradeoff, especially when you're using a UGS with a thrust R2, they have range that some people don't expect.
i think damage for UGS is fine, but some of the other weapons might be a bit too close to it.
dunno what to do about regular greatswords, they're just worthless.
Nerf straight swords.
My BKGA is like 690 with the weapon art buff, so if you want crazy AR use something else.
>>336330798
Dude I don't know about you but it feels like range doesn't even exist in this game.
Not to bitch about the estoc, don't really think its OP, but it legit has the same reach as a spear or halberd.
You step in so far with straight swords and rapiers that it doesn't even matter how much longer your weapon is.
I've had maybe 10 encounters where I've outranged someone in pvp with a halberd, phantom range just makes it all a gamble really.
Not even to speak of pve, where every enemy lunges at you so quickly that range actually doesn't matter.
>>336330604
Yeah magic does suck ass right now, not as bad as miracles though.
>Pillars of Light can't be obtained until you kill all the lords but Twin Princes
>Hits for like 120 dmg at 40 faith in pvp
>>336330997
But we already know shit like BKGA and DSGA are just better than everything.
Do you think its fair that BKGA is just better than Fume, with it consuming much more stamina, and being much slower?
>>336331252
the phantom range shit can be annoying sometimes, i've noticed it's real bad with rolling attacks, but the range on UGS is really good. halberds have similar range i think, just without the advantage of hyper armor.
>tfw I got tricked by some anon to lvl up miracle
I want to kill that fucker
>>336331705
It's not even worth it to use miracles as support until after you're at Ithriyl and have great heal, and your fp allows you to cast it twice.
alsoblessed scaling is so fucking bad holy shit
>>336330451
>claymore has no hyper armor
This is false. Stop using a shield like a pansy bitch and use twohanded R1.
Getting 2 R1s in for every darksword R1 is trading at over 2:1 rate. Also spam the fucking R2, it's insane.
Claymore is actually really fucking good, and it only has trouble with things like yhorm's machete.
>>336332259
anon are you lying again?
>>336332340
He's right. But there's no reason to use a claymore when you could be using an UGS like the Astora GS
>>336332259
I never one hand the claymore, if I do I'm just parry baiting.
I have never hyper armored through any attack.
What are you talking about?
Like a dagger or something?
>>336330451
buff two hand weapons that are under powered, un fuck magic. there you go.
>>336332383
It only does 39 more damage.
Also I really don't believe that the r1 has hyper armor, only one I've seen that does is the WA's
>>336332383
But the Astora lacks a poke.
>>336330451
Why would you get 40 dex when you're wielding a FUGS in the first place?
>>336332545
did you forget how to R2?
>>336332505
You get hyper armor halfway through the attack, just like other big weapons.
>>336332545
1handed r2 is a poke, 2handed r2 is a poke. Weapon art is a charge. The fuck are you talking about?
My Yhorns Great Machete +10 does more damage than my +10 heavy dark sword. Was I meme'd into the dark sword again?
>>336330451
Dark Sword is bad for PVP
am i buff enough
also what do you guys think is better
>+15%def
or
>+200hp
trying to fuigreout if i should wear havels or life ring.
>>336332681
Straight Swords are amazing for PvP if you don't fall for obvious parries.
>>336332592
>>336332594
>slow shit
I mean a good poke. Something actually viable in PVP.
>>336332728
neither, just use the roll ring and never get hit.
>>336330451
THERE JUST NEEDS TO BE POISE ACTIVATED
>>336332728
Absorption scales really poorly after 20%. Go for HP
>>336332757
>implying the claymore isn't slow as fuck
>>336332579
It's just comparison for a quality build.
50 is already at the cap for strength though so it's damage isn't getting any higher really.
>>336332396
Not him but I've armored through at least a couple darksword swings with the executioner's sword 2handed r1.
>>336332757
>he doesn't think UGS pokes are top tier
i'm pretty sure it has the range of a pike and it's nearly as fast as an R1
well your opinion is trash anyways.
>>336332796
We all know that isn't the solution.
I even made this thread about how shits unbalanced, but does anyone really want lagstabs or dexfags wit
>>336332640
Dark Sword does less base damage than most bigger weapons, but as it's only a straight sword it can be swung fast and shitloads of times before your stamina is low, and it still does a shit ton of damage.
>>336332878
with poise?***
and poise stabs not lagstabs.
>>336332740
Dark Sword is lackluster for PVP because it loses clean to Estoc and has problems with long range pokes in general.
It's good when you get in, as is all other straight swords, but there's better straight sword choices.
>>336332871
>using a UGS
>thinks he can talk shit
LOL
>>336331449
The 70 base damage nerf to FUGS was too kneejerk
It needs to be reverted
>>336333162
>my argument has no merit so i'll resort to shitposting
whatever anon
>People shit on DaS2 for having phantom range
>It's back and worse than ever in DaS3
Christ this shit is infuriating. Being a full 5ft. away from an axe swing and still taking full damage? Thrusting swords with their bullshit hitboxes?
Fuck off.
Has anyone figured out the blues summon range yet?I'm making a character with the entire point being hiding so blues can actually gets some fights.
>>336333230
Naw, I think everyone can agree 2's was the worst.
At least it felt the worst, with how slow you rolled.
The connection STILL being really awful is inexcusable though.
You could play with someone in your house and have more lag than people on the other side of the planet on real competitive games
>>336330451
Turn poise on and 90% of the balance issues between melee weapons would be fixed.
>>336333521
And then everyone poise-backstabs everyone.
>>336333521
It would turn into fish for back stab souls again.
Curved greatswords or reapers for dex build? I liked murakumo in previous games but maybe I should try something new. Is luck-dex build worth it?
>>336333586
>>336333605
pro comming through.
this was only a problem for shitters.
>>336333586
>>336333605
See someone going for a backstab, unlock and swing behind you as they're rotating around you
or just roll away since there's some weird delay on backstabs like in ds2
>>336333642
reapers are shit
>>336332813
Yeah, that's my point. The 40 Dex does nothing for the FUGS so why even waste the points there? If you're dead set on SL120 at least pick up more end or vit or something for that huge thing. Of course a 40/40 quality build will get more out of a dark sword than a FUGS, that's why you go 40/40 in the first place, to take advantage of quality weapons.
>>336333642
>Curved greatswords or reapers for dex build?
Which ever one you prefer. Despite what all the autist scrubs say, almost all weapons are viable in both PvP and PvE - if you are a good player that is.
>>336330451
Magicfags were the worst and most boring faggots.
I'm glad its nerfed. It should stay nerfed, forever.
There is nothing fun about fighting somebody spamming magic.
>>336333664
It made the game really boring dude.
1000 hours in 1 and 200 in 2 aren't really impressive either.
You can deal with backstab fishing but it doesn't mean it should come back.
Even in its current state ds3's pvp is much better than 1's.
>>336333751
>if you are a good player that is.
And then another "good player," a totally vague term weasel word that doesn't really mean anything, comes out with a weapon that's actually good at pvp and completely outperforms you. Woops, just git gud lol
I rarely lose to Dark Swords but FUGS fucks me up almost every time
They need to turn poise on. Also slow down estus 200% and the game will be great
>>336333816
>dark sword R1 spam is a fun and enriching experience!
>>336333642
That fucking exile greatsword hits slightly harder than a claymore, looks like it has better reach, and has stamina usage similar to a straight sword.
>>336333852
Exactly, everyone saying "If you're a good player you can outplay Dark Sword lmao git gud just parry"
Then you get someone that actually got decent at using DS and you're fucked.
>>336333816
I've fought one person who was an actual pure magic user so far and 5 or 6 who could do nothing more than shoot some shitty soul arrows out of the 20 or 30 hours I've spent pvping. Magic is half worthless now and if you're whining about magic users you never figured out how to roll through or around magic, which was relatively trivial to do.
>>336333925
Don't use things that Oroboro uses though.
Don't become a meta-shitter.
>>336333852
Dude you just suck. Learn to parry.
>>336333925
I think this is my choice
why do people want the UGS rolling poke when Astora overhead smash is just as fast, has hyper armor, has a low hit box, and has MORE range on top of counting as an R2 attack
>>336334043
Anyone decent at pvp using a straight sword will punish you really hard, and mix shit up with jump attacks and backstabs.
Someone with a straight sword at the same skill level as someone with any other weapon with win most of the time.
>muh numbers
FUGS is still really good even if the nerf scared all the metakiddies away.
Moveset actually matters.
>>336333586
You conveniently forgot that backstabs are nerfed from das1
>>336334136
You shouldn't get to wear the onion if you use a Dark Sword.
>>336334043
And what if the guy with the dark sword or rapier isn't some idiot with his R1 button taped down? It's fairly easy to parry the 2nd or 3rd strike but if this guy is poking and wary of parrying your shitty 'counter' is half worthless. Now we're back to square one only one guy has a weapon that totally outperforms the other guys weapon. Oh yeah, I forgot, 'git gud'
This doesn't do anything to address the fact that spamming r1 takes almost no effort while getting a parry off at least requires a bit of timing skill, and fucking it up, which is very easy to do with latency issues, results in you getting cut to pieces.
>>336334136
>continuing to R1 after a whiff
Not really a great example of skill when it just shows you beating some retard.
>>336334164
>punish
its like you're gonna expect me to use all my stamina just trying to hit you or something
>>336334007
That's my point. It was boring as fuck.There were very few creative ways to use spells, resulting in spam that was only dealt with by spamming rolls.
>>336334136
What do people build for their Astora gs? 40/40 refined?
>tfw want to level up as cleric and roleplay as a badass cleric who eventually acquires temple knight armor and uses only blunt weapons/faith weapons
>tfw clerics and miracles blow
what the fug
>>336334267
Sprint at someone with a straight sword in their hand, if they stand still while you come at them, just run around and backstab. They will parry, and you'll get a free backstab.
Is that not punishing?
>>336334291
So it's even more boring now, ontop of being worthless. Is that really what you wanted? You say it's boring, but the dynamic created from a melee character or even one with a backup crossbow vs a purely longranged artillery character was completely asymmetrical and different from the average pvp mash up.
>>336333605
>>336333605
just make it so back stabs dont work if they are locked onto you, there, problem solved.
>>336334297
there is also faith and Chaos
Lightning gets it S rank scaling on faith while chaos gets it A/A on both int and faith
both elementals bring the STR/DEX scaling to c
>>336334349
Your hand*
>>336334337
But dude miracles are amazing, you're just doing it wrong, you have to get 99 in faith and delicate all 4 ring slots to miracles, etc.
>>336334394
I've already got like 30 some str on my character, but if I figure out how to respec I might go for faith for lightning, since even though miracles kinda blow dick right now the heals are pretty useful for pve and coop
>>336333145
>there's better straight sword choices
>than Dark Sword
You are objectively wrong. Everything about the sword is better than any other weapon of it's kind. Stats, moveset, art, it's just too good.
>>336334530
Make sure to have enough fp to cast great heal twice, otherwise it's not worth it.
>>336333426
>Naw, I think everyone can agree 2's was the worst.
I don't know, the phantom range feels about just as bad as DS2 to me.
But yeah, it's been 4 fucking games and the netcode is still trash. Christ.
>>336334571
>moveset
wat, don't straight swords just have the r1 anyway?
>>336334571
Unless you count the 1 inch more of range that boner swords get.range doesn't fucking matter at all in this game though
>>336334571
The moveset is bad though. Pokes are much better than the shitty twirl and stomp is useless compared to stance.
>>336334638
I guess he's talking about the r2's and weapon art, that literally no one uses.
And for good reason, r1+r1 is faster and does more damage than a fully charged r2.
Makes me wonder what the fucking point is for the charge attacks are when r1 spamming is objectively better in every way, unless you wanna mix things up for whatever reason.
Most r2's are so bad that you really shouldn't anyway.
I've hit like 2 people with the r2 of halberd class weapons in my 250 hours.
One handed is okay though
>>336334859
>250 hours already
Damn dude get a life.
>>336333992
>>336334043
Parrying id fucking retarded in pvp. It will only further trivialize fights that dont matter and do nothing for you in fights against someone who is about as good as yourself.
Lads, what's an appropriate SL stopping point if i wanna invade as many mid-late game zones as possible?
>>336334961
two
>>336333834
lets see your hours m8 ;)
>>336334961
60 is perfect for Irithyll Dungeon. I'm having a blast invading here. >90% of them were people actually trying to progress though the game that you can fuck up. There's still a couple 3-man ganksquads but it's not as bad as some other areas. Most people do have phantoms but they're all a bunch of shitters.
>>336334961
sit around 111 for ng, and 135 for ng+
>>336335334
Are ng and ng+ players not connected?
>>336334932
parrying is totally fair bro https://youtu.be/75telNVJNY4
>>336335385
everyone is connected as long as SL ans WL is right.
>>336335385
They are, actually. You can be summoned and summon players into NG+. Its especially heinous if you manage to do a SL1 playthrough, go to NG+, get to Farron Woods and summon people at a low level into your NG+.
I want to be a dick with Morne's Greathammer
what do I do
>>336335385
not sure actually, all i know is im slvl 139 in ng+ and still getting darkmoon summoned into every area.
>>336335386
What causes that other variation of riposte?
>>336335671
hornet ring
>>336335219
these are my steam hours, only got my computer working good about a year ago, plat'd ds1 and almost des on ps3.
fuck bladestone
>>336335471
have an offhand shield or weapon infused with simple, spam WoG
straightswords have more dps than other weapons, with lower weight, a super fucking safe moveset, low requirements, great potential for buffs, and no poise=no problem
they need a damage nerf. I have no fucking clue why they have double B scaling or single A scaling. compared to das1 its hilarious.
This is from an offline fag. Your honorable autistic duels are a minigame at best, but this balancing impacts the actual game itself. the best option for almost upgrade path is a straight sword. the raw astora ss can carry you until the end of the goddamn new game with only 10/10/12 investment. its fucking retarded. at least the drake sword was a secret that took time or skill to get that stopped being useful before mid-game. now you find it in the middle of level one and it lasts your whole playthrough. oh and lower investment and weight too lol.
>>336336018
*for almost every
>>336335742
Neat. Thanks.
>>336336018
The 12 faith doesn't impact the damage, just the stamina usage I think.
And yeah agree, it is literally the drakesword with raw and +2
>>336336018
I went through most of the game with a raw then later refined claymore, and around 3/4s of the ways through the game I decided to upgrade a straight sword. Couldn't believe how little difference there was in damage per hit, and it was much faster and ate half the stamina or less. Fucking ridiculous.
Isn't that an unfair comparison though?
You're comparing a quality build weapon on a quality build versus a strength weapon on a quality build.
That's 30 wasted points you could put in stamina or life.
>>336330451
try the profaned greatsword
that thing shits on everything including dark sword shitters
it's good with your wonky ass 50/40 stats too
Alright so I'm going to go full retard and do a faith build. Any good faith weapons I should be looking out for? I think I saw 2 spears with decent faith scaling and I like the idea of a spear using faith build.
>>336336553
Dragonslayer swordspear is really cool with a big ass lighning bolt wa.
>>336335496
>getting darkmoon summoned
Lies getting summoned to be a cop is a myth.
>>336336139
its just so annoying to be like "okay, this time with the claymore/battle axe/mace/etc." only to realize that theyre literally just less useful than the longswords.
And when I say longswords I mean longswordS. theres fucking five of them. from knew they were the best weapon. they were probably the ones focused on during testing. theres the default longsword, the drake longsword(ASS), the luck min/max longsword(anri's), the better buffy longsword (sunlight), and the bleed stack longsword (barbed). and thats ignoring the other straight swords that trade a slightly better moveset for slightly MORE DPS.
the only thing I considered instead of longswords are halberds, which trade DPS and safe moves for reach. and that trade isnt even that good.
The funny thing is I know why its like this. its like this because they tried REALLY HARD to balance everything. the dps, the upgrade paths. they wanted no weapon to not be viable. unfortunately when every weapon is useful to everyone, and does as much damage as each other, the weapons that have always had the best moveset on top of the lowest requirements will be the best choice. the whole game was "balanced" so hard that the most milquetoast weapon became the go-to.
>>336336424
Stamina wouldn't really matter, I don't spam or play like shit and I do fine with Ultras even at 15 stamina, the stamina per point sucks dick anyways.
And I'm already passed the soft cap on life, on the like hard-hard cap on it.
Unless you really want to put lightning blade, or dmb on the fume, I guess.
>>336336542
The reason for the stats was just to be able to use everything.
I was going to do 45 and just do knight ring if i wanted to use fume but I didn't do the hollowing end on my ng or ng+ and wanted to get it on this run, going for all achievements. [spoilers] only have miracles left now, speifically darkmoon blade, fuck me [/spoiler]
No other stat was worth putting anything into.
>>336336018
Look at the scaling on moonlight shit is fucked.
>>336336768
wow i fucked that spoiler up, sorry if you didn't know about the broken darkmoon blade covenant, guys, or the 1/30 droprate with max item discovery
>>336336768
What's your SL? It seems unreasonably high.
>>336336698
it's not impossible, it helps a lot if you just sit in an area where you can be summoned while you're doing homework or watching TV or something. if you just have it on while you're running around to the boss or something you'll never get summoned.
>>336333642
Curved Greatswords are good, but reapers have less damage and speed than normal Curved Swords, they only have good reach. I wouldnot recommend reapers, for now at least.
>>336336887
115.
I wanted to stay at 100 but I fucked up the hollow ending on ng+ and decided i'd just even it out at 110, then mindlessly attacked the chameleon dude.
Not using this one for pvp anymore really, just want all the achievements at this point.
Don't really agree with the 120 meta.
What are the best Quality weapons?
>>336337019
sunlight straight sword/dark sword
>>336333917
>Any sword R1 spam is a fun and enriching experience
melee spammers have been boring since DeS
>>336337019
Claymore is good if you want to have style points and not be a ss tard, I've heard good things about Astora GS but don't personally like it.
Halberds too, those are really fun.
>>336337014
Oh you're not OP.
>>336337092
Yeah, I am.
>>336330451
you forget range. range is extremely important
>>336337091
astora GS is actually an UGS
>>336337019
profaned GS, greataxe, greatsword, claymore, any straight sword
>>336337182
Didn't say it wasn't, yo.
>>336337164
Holy shit, builds have no point then. You can easily hit the soft caps for almost everything plus str/dex at the level where people PvP.
If you are losing with strength weapons, you are just bad. Its the only way to deal with ganks, and hitting them one while you have full stamina is almost a guaranteed kill.
>>336337295
It does add up to 115 from Warrior starting class though, if ya don't believe me
>>336336018
they dont need nerfs, other weapons need buffs. rolls also need to have less i frames, because its what keeping a shit ton of weapons down
How easy is it to get pale tongues?
I don't feel like starting over again for my faith build so I'll just use my failed caestus dude.
>>336334371
>>336334291
>>336334007
The problem is all the fun spells, such as Profaned Flame, poison mist spells(to small of an AoE, black serpent, crystal hail, deep soul, affinity (now, used to be fun and balanced, IDK what happend to that) Dark edge, Now soul greatsword since they apparently had to nerf it like day fucking 1 despite it not being broke in the first place, and hell pretty much every miracle.
Magic should be more than "shoot ball that does damage" I mean, that's pretty much bows job already. Make it so I can use poison mist as a smoke screen to launch off a profound flame to catch them off guard, shit like that is what spell casting should be about.
>>336337405
I'm 15 levels higher than I'd like to be, on a pve character right now.
I know I'm overleveled, I already said I don't like 120 pvp.
just buff the damage on heavier weapons, boom, fixed.
you get one every time you win a duel/invasion
>>336337405
>builds have no point then
Good. That means it all comes down to skill.
>>336337405
Not if you go caster.
The meta is going so high do to how fucked magic, miracles and attunement slots are.
>>336337508
If you do well at pvp, you should have like 30 just from occasional pvp at the end of your playthrough.
If you're lazy farm darkwraiths, or fuck up a host at a fight club, make sure you're purple though.
Anytime you're purple make sure to bother people and be annoying and untrustworthy.
>>336337558
>do low hp dodge charcter
>get two shotted by a big weapon
I was ok with it, I mean it was a fucking claymore, makes sense
>then get two shotted by a dark sword
That I was not ok with.
>>336337019
literally everything because refined is overpowered as shit
>>336337448
>rolls also need to have less i frames,
Fuck no.
Not with these Bloodborne enemies and bosses.
>>336330451
How's Black Knight Great Sword hold up? I used it in Dark Souls, dat golf swing man.
>>336337656
I hope you're not using twindaggers, they seriously blow.
>d/d scaling at base for daggers that have like 18 dex requirement
>infusing it with sharp loses you damage and gains no scaling at like 30 dex and +4
what the fuck from
>>336330451
How the fuck he sees things with that stupid helnet?
>>336337651
You can get pale tongues as a mound maker?
Also I'm going to try to get them as soon as possible, I've got about 15 points too many in strength right now. at level 25.
>>336337692
Yeah its kind of annoying, used Greatsword (the Ultra), and at 30/20 refined it does more damage than 50 strength heavy, and by a pretty damn good margin
>>336337782
Oops, no, I forgot you get other shit as a purple.
You also do as a sunbro surprisingly, so don't be one of those if you invade or fight club.
A lot of the problems melee weapons have can be solved by putting in poise the way it was in DaS1, Estoc and Dark Swords users are just to afraid to admit it. Bigger weapons would be viable instead of 50/50 and straight swords wouldn't need a nerf.I'm secretly okay with magic getting shafted because it was OP as shit in pretty much all the DaS games, but they'll probably get DLC spells later on that are really good.
>>336337880
I don't want to see Giant Dad/Oroboro shit though.
I'd be happier if the poise system would just let you roll out of the first hit.
The guaranteed 2 hit r1 system is pretty shit imo, and gives less intensive to use other moves.
>>336332410
>Buff 2 handed weapons so me and my STR boyfriends can steamroll the game even more
>>336337725
Only UGS that does UGS damage.
>>336337880
>it was OP as shit in pretty much all the DaS games
Spells have been almost entirely shit in pvp.
Each game has had 1 or 2 good spells and a sea of useless ones.
PvP related anyway
>>336338024
Even the pve spells are lackluster because of castings being gone.
Every sorcerer just uses Great Heavy Soul Arrow, because it's the only one worth the gp consumption.
>made quality build for first run like always
>beat ds3 for the first time
>time to check back in with /v/ and see if that 120 meta is holding up
>FUCK STRAIGHT SWORDS REFINED OPEEE
>FUCKING DARK SWORD REEEEEEEEE
>>336337725
it's good, also try greataxe
>>336338147
Yeah, they're op. I don't think anyone will argue against that.
>>336337994
heh
>>336333816
I'm glad Roll Souls is ending after this game.
>>336338217
>>336337994
HEH
>>336338275
>>336338308
>>336338217
How do people let themselves get hit like this? You weren't even playing impressively.
>>336338024
man, sounds like you weren't around for DeS magic
>soul ray tearing your asshole up for barely any mana
>homing soul arrow being a great follow-up for hybrid builds
>fireball to fuck with people on small ledges in 3-2
>Warding because HAHA 80% DAMAGE REDUCTION
>Firestorm for when you feel like a lazy asshole or you don't want to deal with a 1v3
>>336338371
They probably didnt know i was spawning right around the corner. The message usually pops up a bit after invaders get summoned in.
Also the sorcerer got fucked by locking themselves in a cast animation trying to oneshot me with soulmass and something else.
>>336338531
Only second chance and running Firestorm were worth a shit.
>>336338024
The one or two they got would usually one hit you if you got hit, Dark Bead did a fucking shit ton in 1 but you at least had to get kinda close, but became the go to just for how much it did. The one with the 5 little sprites over your shoulder would pretty much mean if anyone got close to you they would spend most of the time rolling at least.
>>336338371
Sometimes you arnt expecting the swing, a lot of guys run with straight swords and katanas so they are used to those swing speeds and ranges.
>>336337880
>putting in poise the way it was in DaS1
yes please make the estoc and darksword even more overpowered.
>>336338635
Yeah, exactly. How is this going to help strength users when a dexfag can minmax a build with more poise than you, and ignore your greatswords?
>>336338204
Just kind of disappointing. I always use straightswords in souls games. Which usually means a quality build. So I'm sitting pretty for now but from is bound to knee-jerk nerf my build into the fucking ground so that everyone has something else to complain about. Not that they aren't unbalanced, but if everyone thinks from is going to actually balance them instead of making them objectively shit they need a reality check
>tfwi read all theae issues people have woth pvp
>dont experience any because i use DSGA and BKGA
they die so fast
>>336338698
Because retards never actually played PvP in Dark Souls 1 and didn't realize it was dominated by light weapons and spear turtles, and lack the basic common sense to realize that bringing back poise gives an advantage to shitters using rapiers/straight swords that previously only large weapons had.
>>336332796
>the game was clearly though to have poise
>''nu-uh, let it deactivated, who cares if armors, a stat and a ring plus a whole playstyle are now unavailable, everyone should play the same and just flip around anyway''
>>336338635
Just have poise scale in accordance to the weapon you're being hit with in addition to what you're wearing. Smaller weapons like straight swords would have a hard time staggering someone in heavy armor with high poise but a huge greatsword wouldn't. So even if you're using Havels and an Estoc you're still getting planted by a greataxe R2 and you're not hitting the guy out of it if he's wearing something heavy too.
>>336338635
>>336338698
>people that don't know how poise worked
Weapons did poise damage, a dude in Havel's using a rapier isn't gonna poisebreak a dude in Havel's with a greatsword, maybe a dude in super light armor but medium armor would be alright. Rapiers did shit for poise damage and wouldn't stunlock, straightswords did more but wouldn't stunlock as bad as a Dark Sword does now.
You'd still be able to roll around and shit, you just wouldn't get stunlocked anymore.
>>336338702
I know, I'm sorry for you man.
They handle nerfs, really, really poorly.
I'm still fucking salty about them stopping the golf swings from launching in 2, that was cool as fuck and one of the only interesting things about big weapons, and they only removed it because dex fags in iron keep complained i guess?
And making clay swing just as slow as every greatsword in 1, even though it's whole point was supposed to be a mobile gs.
And actually making offensive miracles worthless in 2 and 3, just sad.
Also, they didn't change mundane scaling to be less on smaller weapons, and more on bigger ones, just nerfed the fuck out of the two weapons that took advantage of it.
>>336331252
I have no clue what you're talking about. The whole reason I could farm 20 tongues within an hour was because of the range on my Lucerne. Outranged everyone with straight swords and estocs.
>>336338914
If poise comes back, itll be used by estocs in full havel that can NOT be interrupted. itll literally be a dps race and you WILL lose.
You dont want poise back.
>>336338952
You're a retard who never played DS1 PvP.
>>336338979
So are you.
An estoc/darksword user doesn't need to break your poise, ever. If they have poise they just have a bigger advantage because now your large weapon that could previously stunlock to get in 2 hits now can only ever get in 1 hit (and they can hit you 2 or 3 times during that one hit).
>>336338914
Poise was a garbage system anyways.
>>336338702
People just want the big weapos with the exception of like 5 that actually do damage to do damage.
B O P P E D
>>336337773
There's a slit that would offer a surprisingly wide field of view based on how long it is, and it might even be thicker than the slits in helmets like what the knight starts with. Though now that I think about it the reason knights with such visors could see anything at all is because the slit is rather close to their eyes; this one is at least a good 4 or 6 inches away from the face.
>>336339043
>ganking
For what purpose?
>>336338979
You aren't going to make full havels with a greatsword. Faster weapons will be able to.
That's why dex is the only one who's going to get a buff from it.
And seriously trade-offs are boring as fuck, and the two hit system makes the game less about being tactical than just being the first to get two r1+r1's and put your opponent into a state of panic, or flatout kill them.
>>336338979
>a dude in Havel's with a greatsword
Who will have no HP whatsoever because he invested 60 points in vitality and has no vigor as a result.
>>336338979
You dont understand what the issue would be. it has nothing to do with the GS user. it has to do with the estoc user that cant be interrupted by ANYTHING. Youd need to do more damage than they have HP to stop them, and they will drain your hp faster because estoc is a very fast weapon.
youll get killed by a turtle draining your hp faster than you can think of a reaction.
the only weapons that would be okay are the BKGA and the DSGA, simply because they force movement.
>>336339038
Did you even read what I wrote?
>>336339001
I want to be able to play as a tank.
I want my armor to have a meaning.
I want to be able to not be perma stunlocked.
I want to be able to resist a single punch of the first area's enemy if I am wearing an armor made of rocks.
And I want to know that I will have to adapt my strategy and use lightweight at my atvantage when facing an opponent with high poise.
Yes, I want poise back in.
>>336332809
absorption scales the same (=linearly) no matter what number it's at
>>336339207
I'm assuming you're the one who suggested a system literally identical to the one we have now wehre large weapons get hyper armor, in which case you're just plain retarded.
>>336339095
If you haven't realized, Dark Souls 3 is an inversion of all the tropes and themes of Dark Souls 1. This also means that the hosts are now the ganking faggots instead.
>>336337880
Magic was good for beating up shitters or laggy people and nothing else, if you want a magic pvp build to be viable your spells were pretty much entirely support like a weapon enchant on a guy that would be swinging a sword or something most of the time, MAYBE along with something like homing soul mass which would be useful while engaging in close combat. Past that anything else you use is to just try and cheap shot a guy as he's running away, or hoping the guy you're throwing spears and arrows at is fat rolling or just has no idea he can roll through magic. Magic as a main offensive tool was totally ineffectual against anyone who knew how to play.
Of course, magic was very, very powerful in 2v1s and 3v1s, but that goes without saying as anything is good when you outnumber your opponent and he has to pay attention to more than one guy at a time.
>>336339172
only takes 55 to fatroll in havels + dragon tooth and havel greatshield using normal havel ring and ring of favor.
would take a lot less for just havels and a greatshield unless you want to get below 70%.
>>336338979
what fucking idiot has the stats to wear full Havel with a gs and still roll?
do you play this game?
the full havel estoc will exist, and it will outperform every single other build EVER
>>336337880
>because it was OP as shit in pretty much all the DaS games
It's only good in 1 and Bloodborne and in 1 you have to live at 10% hp and in bloodborne you have to give up good runes for more bullets and don't get your only dedicated weapon until the end of the DLC. It's been globally shit in pvp in every game.
>>336339287
I'm still triggered by forest invaders who complained about people ganking all the time, but whenever there was a lone host they'd gank him.
>>336339319
Wow, only 40 points wasted in a useless stat!? That sounds much better than what we have now.
>>336339321
I think raw astora/havel would be better. But yeah agree.
>>336338217
>>336338308
wut stats u doin for dat kinda dmg mang and wut level
>game is made with poise in mind
>instead of changing it or nerfing it they remove it completely
>they do not change stuff accordingly to this decision leaving a broken game
>this is considered to be ok
>>336339354
>tfw I did both in 1
>>336338985
I was going to put faith up to 30 for darkmoon blade on my sunny sword. Guess I'll put it in vit for some extra poise... fml
>>336339402
i'm just saying that it doesn't take quite as much vit as you were saying it would.
>>336339420
Better than turning it on and fucking over the entirety of PvP like DaS1.
>>336339219
You wont be stunlocked, but that estoc is full havels wont be stunlocked either.
and you won't be rolling unless youre using an estoc because heavy poise armor is not light.
that gull havel estoc will be able to roll, you wont
theyll be able to spam, you wont
theyll dps you down to 25% before you get your first hit in, and thanks to their new full havels set, they wont stop attacking either.
you really wont benefit from poise, itll only make heavy weapons worse.
>>336338914
Is there really a ring that increases poise?
And they have the stat turned off, what the fuck, why even keep the ring in in that place
>>336331806
>>336330604
Seriously tho; magic's unfucked in reg 1.06 but miracles are still fucking atrocious.
Which pains me since miracles have been my go to in DS1 and DS2, especially with dragon-slayer spear.
The damage is pitiful for the cast-time and cost. A lightning stake did less damage than a single swing with my spear ffs.
>>336338914
Could you repeat that in English?
>>336339276
Yup, you're just name-calling. Got it.
That would work just fine. They're not getting more than 2 hits in before you hit them and break their chain. Notice I said the player in Havels using Estoc DOESNT get poise/armour while attacking? They're not hitting you again after your first hit lands. If this also requires a slight damage nerf on certain weapons then fine that would be welcome too.
>>336339447
Yeah wow my random big number I made up because it sounded like a lot was a little bit larger than the ACTUAL big number. My whole point is destroyed now.
>>336339485
Because they have all the other knights of gwyn rings there too.i-i guess
>>336339287
My mistake, meant twinking.
>>336339038
There'll be a reason to actually fat roll with poise, yoy can put on a greathammer and Havel's. The main draw right now to those weapons isn't the damage, it's the stunlock.
>>336339114
You can wear heavy armor and use a great hammer,trust me I tried before and had to commit before I found out about Rosaria's Fingers on my first blind play through, right now it's just whoever can get the first hits, like you said. There's no trading much, if yoy both get hit it's just a roll away and try again. It's like playing beyblades until one gets close enough to stunlock instead of fighting.
>>336339535
>wowwwww this guy corrected me when i said something that was wrong wowwwwww
>>336339531
>Notice I said the player in Havels using Estoc DOESNT get poise/armour while attacking?
So you mean literally exactly how it is now, except in this system the strength player has to wear heavy armor to get his hyper armor instead of just getting it automatically? Wow, what an improvement.
>They're not hitting you again after your first hit lands
so it's LITERALLY IDENTICAL to the current system in that regard
>>336339595
Whats the damage reduction with full havels?
Can we talk about how from has spammed so many ultra-greatswords when they should've been just great-swords?
The profaned greatsword (Actually ultra)
Farron Greatsword (Actually ultra)
Seriously; and they do almost less damage than most real greatswords but are far slower.
>>336339321
Why would you need to roll when you have full havel's with an ugs? Who cares if you fatroll, you're going to stun a guy in one swing, maybe two if they've got similar armor, and then you're just gonna cleave them in two while they recover.
>>336339506
I don't even think magic is unfucked honestly.
You get all these people with their "Works well for me" stories of one shotting people.
But investing 60+ into a stat, and all of your ring slots, then you still have to find a way to hit someone, which is really fucking hard.
Like why bother? Just pick up any straight sword and swing twice
>>336339635
with steelplate +2
>>336339319
>only 55
yeah because anyone wants to be over 70%, unless it's a gimmick build.
all those points a heavy wep user is wasting on carry load, an estoc user is investing in dex/hp/stamina
poise will not make this game better
>>336339595
>THERE ARE NO APACHES IN TERRARIA
>>336339469
>>336339473
>pvp
No Poise makes pve shit too, pvp is shit right now anyway
>>336339670
i never said it would.
>>336339485
>And they have the stat turned off, what the fuck, why even keep the ring in in that place
Game is full of useless shit. What's the point of farron flashsword or soul greatsword when even with a full int build they deal less than half the damage of any shitty raw weapon, and you don't need fp to use them either?
>>336339670
>all those points a heavy wep user is wasting on carry load, an estoc user is investing in dex/hp/stamina
So they get maybe 3-4 points extra in each stat. Big whoop.
>>336339001
Rapiers aren't supposed to do almost any poise damage. That means they can't just race you because they get staggered and stunlocked if they just mash r1 like a retard.
Rapiers in 1 did like 8 poise damage when using both hands. If you had 53 poise like a sane person, they'd need to hit you 7 times to break it. If you don't break their poise in before they hit you 7 times you deserve to lose.
>>336339702
Well no shit, but shitters are going to bitch about their crutches being removed. They bitched about shields before people discovered that poise was just a variable that was set to false.
>>336339319
>fatroll
>ever an option
>>336339485
Wolf ring
Because they did not rebalance the game around the decision of cutting an entire statistic, they just deactivated poise and called it a day
>>336339321
>>336339473
>but that estoc is full havels wont be stunlocked either.
So change that too. If you're using some piddly straight sword Havels won't stop you from getting stunned/interrupted.
There, now heavy weapon/armor benefits from poise as intended and you can't turtle with straight swords and win anyway. Wow, that was so very difficult.
>>336339506
>Seriously tho; magic's unfucked in reg 1.06
In what way?
>>336339595
you could use an estoc and put those points in stamina or vigor.
and gain all the benefits of poise. you can drop that shield since you wont be needing it anyway due to the fact that estoc haa such high dps you just start hitting to win
don't worry, youll never stop thanks to the idiots that begged for poise. you have all the poise you can get, so no one will stop you
>>336339754
Except they kill you in four hits so they really only need to poise through one hit to kill you. But hey, you clearly didn't play DaS1 if you think anything but light weapons and spears were used for serious PvP.
>>336339662
I got one-shot as a str build with full gundyrs.
this is on reg 1.04 before the patch.
Guy just homing'd up and soul-speared my face off.
Granted I invaded again and tore his rectum apart in one gundyr-charge slice but still
>>336339650
>stun
not when they have as much fucking poise as you. theyll just dps you down with their dark sword or estoc and kill you while you start your second swing.
>>336339186
Even niggers with full havels or giants in ds1 would get stunned by a couple UGS swings, and estocs/rapiers did totally shit poise damage. The estoc user would get stunlocked after a couple swings and would eat shit.
I feel like all these guys talking about how a havel wearing estoc user with poise is some kind of godmode character never actually pvp'd in ds1
>>336339810
Overall damage boost.
So its not as weak as weapon damage.
If you get hit; you get hit like a freight train.
Friend's actually enjoying it on console.
Whilst I can kill a mob with my main hand weapon faster than heavy soul arrow on 1.04.
>>336339636
Don't you dare say Farron needs a buff.
Seriously all you have to do is press l1 (which doesn't consume fp for some reason) and you create a full "can't touch me" circle that stunlocks for 3 hits.
>>336339814
40 endurance is already more or less the max, and 27 vigor is the soft cap. i'm not arguing for poise.
>>336339874
An estoc doesn't do anywhere close to the poise damage an ultra does.
>>336339876
>The estoc user would get stunlocked after a couple swings
UGS guy would be dead before then.
>>336330451
They should TURN ON POISE FOR ONE HOLY FUCK
>>336339890
Nah I'm saying it should be a greatsword, not an ultra.
Have less stamina usage but shorter-range.
Also farron's is fuckin easy as shit to dodge man.
I just dodge the first, step out and the dude can't dodge my halbred swing since he's out of stamina.
>>336339754
You'll be DEAD by time you can break their poise. this has NOTHING to do with breaking poise since theyll kill you really fucked fast.
as you set up your second swing youll be on the ground dying.
>>336339946
Maybe if the UGS user is for some reason just graciously allowing the estoc to walk up to him and start thrusting before he starts his swing.
>>336339621
Hyper armour only works during certain frames and on certain attacks. So sure, hyper armour that actually works well and consistently would certainly be a fix for poise.
Your whole issue seems to be that poise as it was in DaS benefited Havels/Dex weapons and not heavy armor and weapons as intended and this would fix it, so what's the problem?
>>336339595
>40 END
fucking really?
>>336339941
in one hit, no.
but in the TIME it takes an ultra to do one hit, that estoc will be done with most of your hp. they roll through your second attack, fuck you up on your recovery frames.
No one in this thread that's arguing that poise shouldn't be in game played DaS1. There was a reason Lightning Zweihander Giant Dad was the go-to PvP meta build, and it's because it could stunlock even other Giant Dad's in two swings, or a single heavy or jumping attack.
