What do you think the next 3D Mario will be like?
But those other games add mechanics to replace the lost ones nigger.
>>336309428
/thread
>>336308420
Forgot to add Sunshine and how they got rid of the most important moves in place of kung fu shit with the FLUDD even though it's all crap so you might as well master the spin jump and running sommersault
>>336308420
Except 3D world has more movement options. Th only things that 64 has it doesn't are the triple jump and diving jump. (your picture is lying, as it claims that crouching, crawling, picking things up and throwing them, and going into first person view are not in 3d World, which they are).
Meanwhile 3D World also has the spin jump, rolling, the rolling long jump, movement options from power ups, such as floating with the tanooki suit, different movement options for each individual character like floating and double jump spin attacks, dashing, and movement options in multiplayer, like jumping off of each other or picking one another up to do crazy shit with multiple people doing a variety of jumps.
>>336309428
Galaxy added a spin and the ability to shoot star bits with the wiimote (discounting certain level-specific gimmicks like pointing at webs and dragging them to slingshot Mario).
3D World added the cat suit dive thing and tanooki suit float, as well as a grounded B button attack for each.
They were still mechanically simpler than 64.
>>336308420
>bitching about movement options and attacks
Nitpicking at its worse. 3D World and the entire NSMB-ized franchise is bad but for reasons pretty much completely unrelated to anything in that picture.
>>336310240
How so? Literally the only thing you could be upset about is that the art style is... The same as it has always been.
>>336309887
REEEKKTTT
>>336309568
>/thread
>implying op isn't going to samefag it alive
>>336310240
No I think movement is a big fucking deal. 3D World feels very rigid in comparison to 64. Why are we regressing?
>>336310798
>3D World feels very rigid in comparison to 64
It really doesn't at all. We aren't regressing, see >>336309887
But keep samefagging, OP. You'll get some (You)s.
The problem with later Mario games, hell, Nintendo games as a whole nowadays is that they don't feel ''loose'', people go on about the brilliant 3D engine Mario 64 had, how free to do anything you were in Super Metroid, whenever I pick up a new Nintendo game to play I always feel like I'm being held back by something, or that I'm not allowed to do things like not play the way the developers intended.
Being loose and flexible with the gameplay is not that great though, Sunshine is looser than a 50-year-old roastie
>>336310798
>>336308420
>>336309726
>>336310197
>>336310324
God just stop. No one agrees.
>>336308420
I hope they give Mario his moves back.
I also hope they bring back stages that aren't all surrealist blocks in the sky.
>>336311229
Weren't majority of the levels in 64 just floating islands in the sky?
>>336309731
>Mario only knows how to fight in a single main-line Mario game
Pretty lame desu, they ought to bring back his skills.
>>336311320
The majority, yes.
But not all.
Mario hasn't stepped foot on the "surface world" in 20 years. It's pretty pathetic.
>>336311320
People want adventure shit in their platformers.
>>336308420
Endless runner where the only button is JUMP
I honestly don't compare the 3D Marios to 3D World/Land
Like yeah they're both 3D Marios but they're completely different in execution. Mario 64 was more collectathon and 3D world was closer to the original games.
I did like Sunshine best though. I felt like you had the best control over Mario in that game, and going back to 64 feels really stiff extremely dated.
>>336311582
thats for mobile
>>336310324
There's hardly anything new is the problem, which is especially when the worst offenders literally have "new" in the title.
NSMB 2 and NSMB U were essentially just level packs for NSMB Wii but at full retail price. They do have some "new" stuff like powerups that are functionally pretty similar and sometimes worse than equivalents from previous games. Seeing Mario in a squirrel suit is not worth $60.
3D Land and 3D World were mostly just recycled elements from the Galaxy games and concepts that could easily be in a 2D game but aren't executed as tightly as they could be because of the extra dimension of movement.
64 and Sunshine took advantage of the third dimension by shifting the focus to exploration, which makes intuitive sense. With 2D there is a clear "forward" and "backward," but not so with 3D, and the games were designed around that knowledge. They've abandoned this philosophy in the 3D games in favor of pushing a 2D-inspired philosophy that just doesn't work nearly as well in 3D.
Sunshine and Galaxy also had strong themes that differentiated them from the rest of the series which was reflected in ther gameplay - FLUDD in Sunshine, and planetoid platforming, spinning, and wiimote/star bit interaction in Galaxy. Nothing in 3D Land/World can remotely compare to this; "Mario is a cat now" cannot even remotely compare to "holy balls Mario is in fucking space"
The games aren't bad, they're just a step back from the classics and refuse to take a single step further.
>>336309731
Like that's a bad thing. Would love a basic Mario platformer again.
>>336311320
Whomps Fortress
Cool Cool Mountain
Tall Tall Mountain
Rainbow Ride
Not really. Some idiot will say they all are but it's obvious they just did a terrible job of implementing skyboxes (Like Tiny Huge Island's beach is supposed to blend in with the ocean background)
>>336310798
The only thing wrong with 3D World's movement is how they handled running. Everything else was fine.
>>336311981
Rainbow Ride is literally a sky level what do you mean
Would love to have a 3D Mario game that has a more interactive hub world. Kind of like a mixture between Banjo Kazooie/Super Mario Sunshine.
>>336311775
>>336308420
>implying crawling was ever useful
>not including the advance mechanics of Super Mario Sunshine
>takes out throwing even though throwing is still apart of 3D world
Saging still works people. Use it for stupid thread likes these.
3D World is a great game and the second best 3D Mario.
Also, it is a 3D Mario game.
The skyboxes in Super Mario 64 gave me acrophobia.
>>336309428
>>336310197
3D Land added a completely new move for Mario -- roll and roll jump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avrHM5AH5_4
And 3D World keeps it, along with stupid amounts of power-up and adds stupid amount even more.
3D World has more power-ups than either of Galaxy games (and 64 of course) and none of them is timed
But of course people who didn't played these games don't know about it
Also if you want to count amount of moves in Mario games Donkey Kong 94 tops 64 quite easily, but people like lush cutscenes and Rosalina sad story over that game too
>>336312158
I was listing ALL the levels that could be called "Floating Worlds".
This is out of 15 courses BTW
>>336311582
There's a game and watch Mario game like this. Not 3D obviously.
Also 3d World brings back spin helicopter jump from Sunshine which is obviously not present in 64
But of course people who didn't played don't know about it
>>336311776
>>336311981
Understandable. You kinda made it sound like you thought they all just had shitty skyboxes (which lets be honest almost every level did) but I get you now
3D World feels like Mario Galaxy just as much as Mario Galaxy feels like Mario 64. Or as much as Sonic Colors feels like Sonic Adventure.
>>336312480
>More Powerups
>Cat Suit
>Fire Flower
>Leaf
>Tanooki Catsuit
![New_Super_Mario_Bros._U_--_Bubble_Running_in_Acorn_Plains_Way-[YT-f43][HeoCfeerKIw].dur.webm](https://i.imgur.com/cdiOHxe.jpg "New_Super_Mario_Bros._U_--_Bubble_Running_in_Acorn_Plains_Way-[YT-f43][HeoCfeerKIw].dur.webm")
>>336311776
> 2d is basic!
You obviously have no idea about anything Mario
2d games have nuance in movement and controls
When transferring into 3d you have to deal with camera and with the fact that stomping goombas is much harder because lining up jumps in 3d space
Thus actual platforming is compromised for player's convenience and 64 and Galaxy add an actual melee move
With 3d Land/World make actual platforming the main focus and these games make jumps so much easier to time and line up, clutch melee combat is made redundant
![New_Super_Mario_Bros._U_--_Fuzzies_on_Ice_in_Fuzzy_Clifftop_[YT-f43][WaHB0ysar_E].dur.webm](https://i.imgur.com/i4BOmXC.jpg "New_Super_Mario_Bros._U_--_Fuzzies_on_Ice_in_Fuzzy_Clifftop_[YT-f43][WaHB0ysar_E].dur.webm")
>>336312853
You obviously haven't played any of 3d Land or 3d World
They both have retarded amounts of power-ups
Look up videos of go to wiki or something
>>336312480
>And 3D World keeps it, along with stupid amounts of power-up and adds stupid amount even more.
Literally who cares about how many powerups there are. Mario could have 100 different fursuits he can wear in whatever uninspired game Miyamoto churns out next and it would still be dull if it's made with the same design philosophy and none of them are interesting.
>3D World has more power-ups than either of Galaxy games (and 64 of course) and none of them is timed
Timed powerups are not somehow inherently worse than untimed ones. The timed powerups of the old games were designed around having that property and to be used in limited areas - this made it so that stages could be designed around their unique properties instead of them simply granting improved mobility or attack options.
>>336313081
simple and basic are not the same thing retard
>>336313772
>Timed powerups are not somehow inherently worse than untimed ones
They objectively are.
If power-up is timed of only works in one level only, this just means developers didn't figure out how it can work in any variety of of levels and environments and couldn't design ALL levels with these power-ups in mind.
Also if one power-up is REQUIRED to beat a level it is as much a failure on level designer as well.
all levels must be beaten with either any power-ups at all and designed with all of them so that player have the most options and fun when tackling all levels with any combinations of power-ups
> Literally who cares about how many powerups there are
Literally you care.
You literally spent hours of your time drawing this picture in MS Paint to prove your wrong point how 3D World has LESS moves and options than 64
You literally care about AMOUNT of moves and power-ups, enough to shitpost for hours about it and spend effort proving the long-by lost point by reposting the same pictures.
>>336309726
Didn't they add the spin move in Sunshine and all the other moves from 64 got back in?
Sunshine has great controls
>>336313224
>You obviously haven't played any of 3d Land or 3d World
I dunno about anyone else here but I've played and beaten both of them
>They both have retarded amounts of power-ups
No, they have entirely reasonable amounts of powerups. 3D World has 5 that aren't just some variant of invincibility or of another powerup:
>Cat
>Tanooki
>Boomerang
>Fire
>Double
The rest are:
>Invincibility
Generic timed invincibility
>Mega
Timed invincibility except you're big
>White Tanooki
Invincibility + Tanooki
>Lucky Cat
Slight Cat variant with Tanooki statue pound
5 unique permanent powerups is not "ridiculous" in any sense.
For comparison, SMB3 back in 1988 had:
>Fire
>Raccoon/Tanuki/P-wing
>Frog
>Hammer
Which is 4 total, more if you wanna count Raccoon/Tanuki/P-wing separately or Kuribo's Shoe
So 3D World only has 1 more unique, non-invincibility powerup than 3 did decades ago. That is plain and simply NOT a ridiculous amount.
>>336311776
3D Land/World
>>336310981
Maybe it's because they're forcing the whole 2-Button scheme so you can play with wiimotes
>>336314768
you continue to be wrong
Even 3d Land has more power-ups that you described
and 3d World basically doubles that amount
Look up a let's play or something seriously
Also 3d world brings back shell riding from 64
But of course people who didn't played it don't about it
>>336315156
How many times are you going to randomly remember something and add a variation of "But of course people who didn't played it don't about it" to the end?
>>336314502
>If power-up is timed of only works in one level only, this just means developers didn't figure out how it can work in any variety of of levels and environments and couldn't design ALL levels with these power-ups in mind.
No, this just means that they designed them with a specific and unique use, one which wouldn't make sense to apply in other levels. They're just used in a different way, there is nothing inherently bad about it. Not every fun idea for a powerup would be fun in general gameplay. Imagine how broken 64 would be if you could just have the Wing Cap anywhere - you could just fly straight to stars. It would defeat the purpose.
>Also if one power-up is REQUIRED to beat a level it is as much a failure on level designer as well.
If the level is designed around it then it's not a failure at all. The powerup is part of the level, it's only natural that you need it to finish the level.
>all levels must be beaten with either any power-ups at all and designed with all of them so that player have the most options and fun when tackling all levels with any combinations of power-ups
No, that's some bullshit you just arbitrarily decided. Just because they don't fit into your autistic idea of what a powerup is "supposed" to be doesn't mean they don't serve a perfectly good design purpose.
>You literally spent hours of your time drawing this picture in MS Paint to prove your wrong point how 3D World has LESS moves and options than 64
I'm not OP
You're the one samefagging up the thread, not me
If we count climbing the poles in Super Mario 64 as a move, then we need to count all the environmental shit Mario can do in the Galaxy games, pushing Mario's moveset WAY over 64.
>>336315364
amounts of time i remember all numerous moves from 3d world you didn't about just proves my point
>>336314980
I literally listed them all right there for you.
If there are some that are missing from that list, tell me what they are.
If there truly are more power-ups than that, the burden of proof is on you to show what they are. Saying "did you even play the game?" or some variant of it isn't gonna cut it, because I DID play the game, and checked online to make sure there wasn't anything I failed to recall, and that's all that there was.
>>336315408
>samefagging
you literally don't know what samefagging even means just like with everything else you post about
> this just means that they designed them with a specific and unique use, one which wouldn't make sense to apply in other levels
Exactly. And it means that they did LESS work on this power-up and only designed with just one environment and didn't work on how it works in other levels.
The superior and objectively better approach is to make ALL power-up works and do interesting stuff in ALL levels.
> arbitrarily
Except most of 2d levels works that way.
But of course you didn't about it.
How much of that actually offered meaningful gameplay depth, though?
>Super Mario World
>Can throw objects directly up
>NSMB series
>lol nope
I don't know why this irritates me more than it should
>>336315679
I don't need to prove anything because you are wrong.
And you didn't check anything because if you did you could have at least seen that you missed boomerang which is present in 3d Land and is preserved 3d world
There is also another power-up aside from cats which were made a big deal in promotional materials so you didn't even had to play the game to know about it: cloning cherry.
Apply yourself and check again.
if you going to insist on your wrongness i will dole out yet another two unique power-ups that are in 3d Land and you didn't know about.
>>336315547
Not trying to prove you wrong anon, it's be better if you actually put them all together instead of adding a cheap remark at the end like a child. None of the variations are grammatically correct either but I'm not going to push that.
>>336316250
it's easier to me to do this by segments, because i sage every post
and i don't want to do more autistic work than you by checking grammar and making full lists
>>336314687
Sunshine moves great, but the lower framerate and the terrible physics ruin it for me, like I said, they god rid of stuff like the Long Jump and Backflip thinking the FLUDD equivalent would be as functional
>>336315793
>Exactly. And it means that they did LESS work on this power-up and only designed with just one environment and didn't work on how it works in other levels.
No, they did MORE work creating a level with mechanics and assets specifically tailored to that powerup.
>The superior and objectively better approach is to make ALL power-up works and do interesting stuff in ALL levels.
This is in no way "objectively better," there's upsides and downsides to both. Limited-use powerups provide more variety to the gameplay so you're not doing the same thing in every stage, and allow for more unique and specialized powerups that can be used for specific purposes. On the other hand, unlimited-use powerups have the advantages you've mentioned.
>Except most of 2d levels works that way.
2D design is and should be different than 3D design, since the extra dimension of movement will completely change how you use space and perspective.
>>336316047
>SMB3
>Kick shell, no real thought about where it ends up
>NSMB
>Mario does this weird little throw that covers like a block of horizontal distance before plumetting like a rock
>There's a truckload of coin puzzles that rely on shell physics
>>336316451
Checking grammar isn't an autistic work. Reading something and noticing there are words missing or in the wrong space is called reading. I'm not the ms paint guy either, keep taking down the machine with your sages though.
>>336308420
Next 3d mario game is as a scuttlebug farmer. You must raise scuttlebugs in different dimensions and each scuttlebug takes 12 hours to raise from a baby QPU to an adult QPU
>>336316568
>creating a level with mechanics and assets specifically tailored to that powerup.
Except they could have done MORE work designing an unique level AND making power-up stay past that and making sure it works in level after AND before.
You are literally asking for more lazy game design.
>>336316678
whatever makes postc counter go up and whatever takes less effort for me
i am not exert myself too hard over this
>>336308420
>slide kick
The fuck?
>>336316912
It's literally the same as the slide move (But it looks cooler)
>>336317394
>Mario being a super fucking agile athlete will never blow your mind like it did when you first played Mario 64
I mean shit, literally all he did in the past games was jump with his fist up and shoot fireballs
>>336317394
Ok, I guess I'm a dumbass but I didn't realize you could do that. I've played this game at least five times and theres still shit I don't know.
>>336317769
you need to play DK' 94 if you to see some sick moves
Mario only regressed from that game on in terms of athletic prowess both in 3d and 2d
>>336316178
He listed all of those, you retarded faggot.
>>336314768
Can't you even fucking read?
Every level is just floating fisher price blocks, only 1 new power up the game shills everywhere based upon some sort of animal.
>>336312305
>Not crawling back up the slope in the blue switch room to collect the red coins you missed
>not crawling up the slope in the ship area of the 3 star door underwater level whose name escapes me to reach the star that you were too slow to swim with the current up
>>336319039
No he wasn't even close because (you) haven't actually played 3d Land and don't know the first thing about it
Two new unique power-ups in 3d Land that you didn't list are:
-- helicopter block
-- coin block
If you keep insisting, i will dole out two more power-ups from 3d World that you didn't know about
>>336316765
Powers in 3DW are irrelevant and not needed to complete the level, except to get some stamps. It didn't require any work to incorporate them in the level design.
The levels in the older game, on the other hand, are entirely built around the power ups, that are needed to beat the level. Not to mention much more complex, can you even compare the winged cap with the basic 3DW power ups? That obviously required much more work.
>>336319651
>coin block
Jesus you're desperate.
And if you mean the Ice Skate, he listed the Kuribo's Shoe for SMB3. Those, the helicopter and the cannon aren't even power ups, just items.
>>336319686
>Powers in 3DW are irrelevant and not needed to complete the level
which is a brilliant game design, because it means that level is designed with ALL possibilities in mind
Green start is placed way high in the air can be taken with either cat, helicopter or if you don't have any of it you can still do spin jump into wall jump
Why is it possible? Because level designer thought of all these possibilities -- the easiest method is to grab that green star wit the cat, but if you are skilled enough you can still take it
That requires more work.
What you are advocating is to break the tradition of how all Mario levels have been designed so far and make them with less effort, less polish and less talent put into them.
> The levels in the older game, on the other hand, are entirely built around the power ups
Wrong as always.
SMB1 can completed from start to finish without small Mario. So is SMW. SMB3 requires flying in several levels though.
In 3d games timed power-up like flying basically amounted to temporary gimmicks and are basically cutscenes to move from point A to B without actually augmenting platforming and making new ways of jumping and moving around
>>336320002
> got BTFO
> no u disperate!
i literally shown that are wrong and don't know the first thing about 3d land
Because you keep insisting on your wrongness here are two more power-ups from 3d World:
Light block and goomba hat
But at least i made you look up the wiki, so now you can actually see how many power-up are actually there in 3d Land because you obviously didn't have any idea before
>>336316178
You're an illiterate fucking moron. Go ahead, name those two unique power-ups.
>>336312480
To be completely honest I didn't know about rolling, and I loved both 3D Land and 3D World.
>>336320645
i already did, pally
making you wrongness even more evident
>>336308420
>no triple jump in 3D World
Are you sure?
>>336320241
>which is a brilliant game design, because it means that level is designed with ALL possibilities in mind
No, they're designed with none of them in mind since the only one that modifies significantly your movement options is the cat, and that breaks the game.
The only times they considered them is to reach a specific star/stamp and they leave the power up near since the game is designed for a retarded audience.
>Green start is placed way high in the air can be taken with either cat, helicopter or if you don't have any of it you can still do spin jump into wall jump
Helicopter is locked to few specifico levels, have you even played the game? And most of the times the star can only be got with the power up, you're not given options.
>Why is it possible? Because level designer thought of all these possibilities -- the easiest method is to grab that green star wit the cat, but if you are skilled enough you can still take it
Nope.
>and are basically cutscenes
Oh so you're retarded. Sorry for replying.
>>336320631
>goomba hat
>power up
>>336320631
>light block
Another item.
>goomba hat
Also item, that doesn't change your movement options in any way and is completely irrelevant.
You sure showed me.
I can't imagine the work it took to balance these beasts into the level design.
![Super_Mario_3D_Land_Final_S8-Crown_No_Tanooki________3D____S8-____3DS_[YT-f43][fBfhSQfE8eM].dur.webm](https://i.imgur.com/2ieuiUf.jpg "Super_Mario_3D_Land_Final_S8-Crown_No_Tanooki________3D____S8-____3DS_[YT-f43][fBfhSQfE8eM].dur.webm")
>>336320886
rolling and roll jumps are the fastest moves in 3d Mario
you can breeze past levels with remarkable speed
>>336321191
>that
>fast
>this is what high level 3DL gameplay looks like
Wew lad.
Is it time to dump those Sunshine Webms?
>>336321472
Do it
>>336321053
>>336321189
> got BTFO
> no u wrong
> that doesn't change your movement options in any way and is completely irrelevant
Goomba hat changes your movement more than iron Mario in 64 because you don't have to dodge enemies now
> I can't imagine the work it took to balance these beasts into the level design
Goomba hat changes AI of enemies and how they react to you
also you are already proven yourself even more miracouslously wrong because if you want to classify these power-ups as items then Galaxy has basically zero power-ups because all of them are items then
> And most of the times the star can only be got with the power up, you're not given options
Wrong again.
There are maybe 5 green stars in entire game that actually require a power-up (like the one that hangs in the air on the side of platform above the abyss requiring boomerang to grab it), all others can be taken with regular Mario.
You just need to apply skills which is exactly how it was designed -- with both no power-up run and with power-ups.
But because you are oblivious about what these entire game series is all about and didn't played 3d world you don't know about it.
either way i kept listing things you had no idea about proving how you didn't actually played neither 3d land or 3d World
ony thing you have left now is weakly call me names
>>336308420
most of the stuff in 64 was worthless.
>>336321472
look closely this is how actual platforming looks like
you might have know this if you actually liked Mario instead of just Galaxy flying cutscenes
>>336321741
How else I'm supposed to treat one that calls timed powerups "basically cutscenes"?
You're retarded, plain and simple. And from this obsession you have about people not having played a game that can be pirated and beaten in 5 hours, autistic as well.
