I'm so fucking confused about the lore. Why would the Soul of Cinder be opposed to the re-linking of the first flame? Can someone explain most of the lore to me, cuz I'm fucking lost.
dude hollow lmao.
>>336196495
Who says you want to link the flame?
1. Your character must prove themselves worthy with a final test
2. Just because you enter that arena, does not mean you definitely want to link the fire
>>336196495
cause it burns brah, self sacrifice to keep the flame alive.
Because Dark Souls 3 has next to no story, just a bunch of borrowed lore.
>>336196495
>tfw no transforming spiral sword waifu
Why live?
>>336196698
This. I knew I didn't want to link the flame, it's logical it tries to fight me
Daily Reminder, you never fought;
Ornstien, instead you fought an illusion and a fanboy
Artorias, instead you fought an empty shell controlled by manus
Gywn, instead you fought the first Soul of Cinder
And both would push your shit in at 100%
>>336197253
Wouldnt be the one controlled by manus be stronger if manus was stronger?
>>336196495
I too am confused. Can somebody please provide for us a detailed explanation of the games lore?
>>336197253
>Artorias loses to manus
>we kill him and manus
>somehow hes stronger then us
get the wolf dick out your ass
Could the Nameless King in DS3 beat end-game Gwyn from DS1?
>>336197483
He means stronger than Artorias, you dingus
>Souls lore
Shit just happens because.
>>336197442
You must prove yourself worthy to link the fire by defeating the burnt husk of the previous linker. It's literally carried over from DS1. If you cannot then your soul would not be powerful enough to be worth linking. It would need relinking again much too soon.
DS2 did it differently.
>>336197589
Easily. End game Gwyn is super nerfed and isnt a god anymore.
Also Yhorm is the strongest person in Souls universe, and had to drop his greatshield so people could have a chance.
>>336197717
Was Yhorm really stronger than prime I-just-found-the-lord-soul Gwyn?
discussion of lore with dark souls is difficult due to the nanomachines-like plot device that "time is convoluted" so FROM can make the story endlessly contradictory and no one can piece anything sensible together.
Why don't people in the Souls universe just go full Warhammer and sacrifice hundreds/thousands of weaker souls over time to keep the flame going?
>>336197360
Probably not. It is not like it is power level shit. Artorias was a great fighter just could not stand against the dark. The chosen undead was able to for whatever reason but potentially Artorias could have been the better fighter. Either way a mad version without its shield and a broken arm was less than 100%
why does she turn into a slug?
>>336197881
That's too metal for japs
>>336197442
You're Ashman, your job/duty is to become firewood (or don't). To do this you need to kill 5 guys and burn them to open the way to the first campfire. You burn yourself (or don't), the end.
Not going to win any writing awards that's for sure.
>>336197916
Eyes on the inside
>>336197916
Respec'd too many times
>>336197913
Him getting his arm broken kind of showed wither or not the dark effected him manus out classed him and we out class manus.
>>336197784
Yhorm had to give away stormrulers so people didnt leave out of fear of him being too OP.
>>336197881
because it's implied that the strength of one strong flame is exponentially stronger than that of weak flames
kind of makes sense in-universe. You can get 80k souls from defeating a boss, but you only get like 50 souls from defeating some pissy Hollow on the first level
>>336197916
Couldn't decide on a build.
>>336197881
They did that with aldrich, the road of sacrifices was for him to feed on men. Once he had enough he linked the flame.
>>336197916
He rebirthed too many times with big momma.
>>336197881
They could have human and hollow farms where they just breed people to be fed to the flame.
But that would mean there'd be no reason to play the game, so it's not going to happen.
>>336198069
>he
masculine vagina
>>336198006
Well because someone is better at fighting one thing it does not mean they are better at fighting something else. Artorias was a knight who fought dragons and men, he could outclass anything in that relm. Also chosen undead by canon uses the pendent which Artorias did not have.
>>336198252
Artoiras can withstand the abyss without the pendant he was the abysswalker manus wasn't his first rodeo down there. It was just his first one he got fucked up in.
>>336196495
All you need to know its a mediocre piece of shit praised by PCucks because they never EVER got to play bloodborne.
DaS3 is a worst bloodborne clone and a repaste of DaS1 from start to finish.
>>336197116
>>336196698
Dark Souls 2 takes place in a timeline where chosen undead didnt link the flame
>>336198252
Also dont forget he may have been losing to manus, but the ending was him sacraficing himself to save Sif.
>>336198314
not to mention he lost the fight because he saved Sif.
anyways>>336196495
its a test, are you worthy to Link the Flame? the Soul of Cinder keeps away weaklings, if you can defeat the Soul, you can link the flame and become one with the Soul of Cinder.
>>336198445
nothing about this is true or provable.
infact, it goes against everything your told, SOMEONE linked the flame and someone's keeps doing it over and over.
Dark Souls 2 is about stuff beyond linking the flame, its a side story.
>>336198425
I honestly just didn't like bloodborne. Every area looked exactly the same and all the bosses were the same. Lore was pants-on-head retarded. Very little weapon variety until DLC. The only thing it really has going for it is that the combat system is pretty good. Dark Souls is better in tons of ways.
>>336197913
We dont even know if Artorias fought Manus.
Alvina and Elizabeth say his story is a lie. It could easily be Artorias was corrupted by the Abyss before he even got to Manus
The lie was to keep his honor intact.
>>336197881
Gwyn actually did this in DS1. The kiln of the first flame is surrounded by ash, which is implied to be from him burning a ton of his knights and whatever else he could get his hands on to keep the flame alive. It's basically impossible to keep the flame sustained forever, though, and he was just prolonging the inevitable.
>Everyone dies once and goes full hollow
>Bosses are dead forever
>CU comes back 1,000 times and can keep pushing it
CU is the most broken shit ever. It is basically a hollow that will never lose its shit
>>336198852
Hollow is literally a curse that means you cannot die.
Lothric says that.
>>336198817
Something broke his arm and corrupted him. So its very possible that he did run into manus.
>>336198975
It is very possible, but we dont know for sure.
His soul even says we only know half the story.
>>336198852
this is for gameplay reasons only.
also everyone hollowing on their first death is as well, hollowing is practically inevitable, but not on the first "death", not that a cursed one can ever die, anyways.
"story" wise you can die, but every death causes you to lose more of your self, and without a purpose its even faster.
>>336198928
Hollowing and the undead curse are separate things, hollowing is the loss of identity and purpose that comes from facing a hopeless situation and giving up on yourself and others. The undead curse induces undeath, which means you respawn indefinitely, and can induce hollowing because you have to force yourself into hopeless situations repeatedly in order to triumph over them. The idea is that failing over and over drives the PC and NPCs to go hollow.
>>336199191
What we do know is though he is a failure
>>336199273
We would have been too without the pendant.
Even broken Arm, Abyssdrone Artorias can push your shit in if you dont know how to fight him
>>336199372
He shouldn't have went in unprepared faggot and he isn't even that hard of a fight. It's ok to like him but nigga failed.
>>336198734
>Shit talks bb story
>DaS3 story is plot hole central
>Samey areas
>Only viable build in DaS3 is straight swords since magic is shit and dex
Wew fucking lad
>>336199273
Almost everyone in Souls is a failure, though.
>>336199273
everyone eventually fails, Artorias was a great hero for thousands of years and did his job impeccably up till that point. he watched the abyss and dealt with its shit.
Manus was simply too big a threat for him to beat alone.
there is a reason Artorias has an entire zone dedicated to him, 3 boss fights that are somewhat about him, including himself, and across the series has 2 OTHER bosses that are specifically about him as well.
him, and his sword live on as basically the "Ultimate Hero" sterotype, with his sword being, largely, the most powerful sword in the Souls universe, story wise.
>>336199543
That is very true the only true heros are patches and Giliggan. If it wasn't for him the Ashen one wouldn't be able to reach yhorm.
>>336199487
>he isnt even that hard of a fight
I bet he beat you first time.
>>336199649
no third but I died to him from my own mistakes. He's a good boss and character but lorefags freak out about him for no fucking reason.
>This Artorias/Chosen Undead/Manus argument again
Hoo boy.
I'll preface all of this by saying that regardless of his condition, Artorias could be beaten by the Chosen Undead. That's because from a thematic standpoint, what makes the Chosen Undead special isn't some sort of destiny (the whole idea of being chosen just being a Primordial Serpent ruse to control the action of the player character and any other would-be pilgrims) or power, it's the character's (read: your) resolve to throw themselves at a situation that seems unwinnable again and again. That's really the big picture, as long as the player does not give up, their avatar will eventually complete their quest. It's a war of attrition against adversity and you are a direct component of it. That's a big theme in the games. All that's special about CU (or any souls protagonist) is that he doesn't go mad or become crestfallen. It's for this reason that trying to ascribe some kind of 'power level' to the character is asinine at best.
Now, about Artorias and Manus - the whole point about the whole mini-sidequest with the Cleansing Greatshield, if you ask me, is to demonstrate that Artorias' nobility is ultimately what kills him in the end. It's meant to add an extra layer of tragedy to his tale. Therefore, it wouldn't be much of a tragedy if it made no difference and I'm thus inclined to believe Artorias would have won had he his shield in hand. Being a resident of Anor Londo, he's not human - he's not a creature of the Dark. He's naturally vulnerable to it moreso than humanity, the children of the Dark.
>>336199543
thats the entire theme of the fucking series, Entropy, and the innate, 'human' desire to rage against the dying of the light.
everyone succeeds until they fail, when you inevitably fail, you aren't a "failure", what retarded logic is that?
>>336199638
Patches is Tom Bombadil and Gilligan is some ladderjew who overprices wood.
Neither are heroes.
>>336198445
The chosen undead of that age was Vendrick, and he refused to link the fire, so you're right in a sense. But there's no good reason to think there's any split timeline bollocks going on.
Why does Manus look all fucked up if he was the first human?
Also, was Manus actually the Pygmy?
>>336199191
What I feel points to their encounter:
>Artorias is not far away from Manus
>He is broken and full of the black goo
>We find Sif really close to Manus with Artorias' shield
>Sif puts his summon sign next to Manus meaning he knows where Manus is located
That is what I remember off the top of my head, there may have been a few more things. Either way we will never know 100% unless big M says something.
>>336199756
Say what you want but Gilligan was important to both the ashen one and bearer of the curses quests.
>>336199638
>Giliggan in DaS3
I really hated this because it heavily implies Drangleic and Lodran are close enough by for a character like Giliggan to travel to.
I'm also confused how the fuck Giliggan managed to get to the Profaned Capital at all, but maybe he was locked in a cell by one of the jailers.
>>336199848
You didnt even need him as bearer of the curse.
I literally had to google where he was when I was trying to get all the achivements.
>>336199757
I wouldn't call what he did "refusing"
Vendrick simply realised it was pointless, and his fear of Nashandra/Manus/The Abyss and what it would do if he attempted to link the fire scared him.
Vendrick realized the nature of the world and was seized by inaction.
>>336199887
nigga Dranglic is across the sea from lordran if it's been a long ass time gilligan can sail.
>>336199793
So the reason Artorius died is that fucking bitch of a dog stole his shield? Fuck dogs. Not just a blight on humanity but any species they leech off of.
>>336199887
he was a treasure hunter/theif/criminal.
he came their for that sweet loot and he even has a ton around him.
the "Profaned Capital" sure is small for a "capital" though.
>>336198252
Abyss Watcher pls stay in your arena killing yourself, you flamboyant fanboy.
>>336199753
I know that's the theme of the series, that's why I pointed it out. Singling out Artorias as if he fucked up worse than anyone else is just dumb.
>>336200063
He did it to himself. He gave the dog his shield. It was a choice.
Did humans and the "gods" (Gwyn's race) ever mate with each other?
>"god" women must have been some serious size queens
>>336200063
No, it was becauae he used his shield to protect Sif instead of himself.
>DS3 confirms Pate was in the right in DS1
Where were yall when best boy won?
>>336198734
>I didnt play the game
>>336200270
No, Gwyns family were Dragonfuckers.
Priscilla is Seaths daughter
Firstborn was a Dragonfucker
Gwynevere fucked Ocerios
Gwyndolin is like Yoshkras father.
>>336200296
>>336200245
This is why dog owners are the worst. Sacrificed Oolacile for his stupid mutt.
>>336198425
>it's not possible to own more than one platform
>>336199848
Gilligan is practically easter egg tier and there are ladders all over the fucking game that he obviously didn't place, so the idea that there couldn't be ladders in the Profaned Capital without him putting them there is ridiculous. It's just a shitty reference to get lorefags speculating. Also Gilligan's services are completely optional in DaS2.
>>336200198
exactly, Artorias goes down as the biggest "hero" in the series, so much that for thousands of years people honor him and his cause and even outright copy his weaponry and fighting style.
Gwyn is practically forgotten, but there are still people learning about Artorias and how to fight like he did.
also the entire series has a heavy emphasis on him as a character and what he did, it frames him as singularly Iconic, even among his 3 peers.
this can be seen in the fact he has an area dedicated to protecting his grave, multiple versions of his weapon in the first game alone, and he's the penultimate fight of the first game.
in the 2nd game there are multiple nods to him in Fume Knight, and you can even find his weapon.
in the 3rd game the Abyss Watchers are clearly just his fanboys, using swords forged to look like his and fighting like him and drinking his/Sif's blood as a sort of brotherhood.
>>336197253
Fought Ciaren though. And Gough.
>>336200515
>he thinks Oolacile deserved to be saved
Anyone Serpantfags need to die.
>>336197253
This was intentional. The story doesn't feel as arbitrary if it can gracefully explain why some random undead was able to go from being locked up in an asylum to slaying gods after fighting random hollows for a few hours.
>>336199973
I wish DS3 had a story as good as DS2. Instead we have recycled lore and a barebones "plot" which is just DS1 again.
>>336198734
What BB showed me is how littile actualy variety DS has in its weapons. 50% of them are completely worthless. The remaining ones are just the same thing but good for this stat. The magic is god awful and after 3 DS games they still haven't made it any good.
>>336199887
Drangleic and Lordran are litterally the same place idiot.
>>336197483
Artorias is stronger. He went berserk because of the Abyss. He lost the arm that he wields his sword with, so he has to use the opposite arm, AND he doesn't have his shield. I believe it was mentioned at one point that Artorias would have pushed CU's shit in if he was at 100% And Manus didn't defeat him, IIRC. He just went insane because he was in the Abyss for too long.
>>336200586
>Two large ladders right near gilligans corpse both lead to looting paths
>Not his doing
Nah faggot
>>336197253
>arguing about power levels
Global rule #2
>>336200270
I don't think it's physically possible due to the size difference. God-men would annihilate human vaginas and God-women wouldn't even be able to be impregnated by humans.
>>336200654
>I wish DS3 had a story as good as DS2
HOLY SHIT the zelda cycle is real
>>336200604
>Fume knight
Did I miss something? The fume knight was a nod to Artorias? I thought he was just Vendricks left hand.
>>336200635
>Cirian
Woman
>Gough
Blind
>>336200586
the point of the gilligan reference is that there's a broken ladder adjacent to the platform where he is dead.
he was cornered by the gargoyle on one side and his ladder broke on the other side, leading to him dehydrating. his own shitty ladder killed him, it's supposed to make you grin
>>336200654
DS2 story was only good after all the DLC and the Scholar of the First Sin.
otherwise it was pretty bare too, and never fully explains Nashandra or her motives, an irony as she's one of the few fully sentient, talking villians in the series.
>>336197253
Or the Nameless King. That entire area was a dream
>>336196798
>2. Just because you enter that arena, does not mean you definitely want to link the fire
This. You could be there to steal it.
>>336200673
They have literally been confirmed to be different continents idiot.
Is Ludleth the chosen undead?
>>336200825
>It was a dream
>get souls and items
>can die and respawn in the dream
what
Vaati here, keep it going guys! I'm gonna have enough material for a new lore video soon.
>>336200673
Provide one piece of in-game evidence that supports this claim.
>>336200814
>never fully explains Nashandra or her motives
It all makes more sense once you realize thatthe Emerald Herald is Nashandra
>>336200825
If it was a dream, how did you get physical items and souls you could use in the real world out of it?
>>336200673
no they are not, as the obvious fact that Anor Londo still stands.
>>336200770
Fume Knight outright weilded Artorias's Greatsword (Magnificant Greatsword) and abandoned it in favor of the weapons given to him by that shard of Manus.
Can someone actually tell me what the purpose of DeS and DS2 was?
>ds1
>we learn a lot about the flame and its purpose and we choose to relight or extinguish
>ds3
>we learn even more about fire in general and its consequences and we choose to relight or extinguish again
>des
>we... kill the king of some kingdom that was fucked up by evil mist
>ds2
>we... kill the king of some kingdom that was fucked up by a woman
It's like two of these don't belong.
>>336200825
It's a time travel, not a dream
why does the Handmaiden in Untended Graves have Artorias' armor?
>>336200515
This. Not only sacrificing self, other sentient beings, but a fucking Kingdom? And we are supposed to think this is anything but detestable? Dog owners truly are the worst.
>>336200604
The only reason Artorias' story is well known is because its a well crafted lie. He was a failure and everything you learn about him turns out to be false.
>>336200604
I dunno, it's hard for me to take the references to Artorias in 2 and 3 as anything more than fanservice. The stories/lore in the sequels just feel like an excuse to throw in references to DaS to me, even if there are a couple neat tidbits here and there (like the story about Pontiff and Aldrich's church, it's like something straight out of fucking Berserk). You can interpret it as Artorias being massively influential, which makes sense in-universe, but it's more just an excuse to tie stuff back to a fan-favorite character and rehash his boss fight.
>>336200825
>Entire area was a dream
This meme again?
How can you summon Hawkwood into a dream? How can you see a dream in the distance before meditating? How do you take items back from a dream?
Archdragon peak is capable of moving. Thats it.
>>336200814
At least they managed it in the end.
>>336200743
I think Bloodborne as a single game was better than the entire Dark Souls trilogy. Fight me.
>>336200825
>Get the NK soul and bring it to Ludleth
>Oh lol i found it in a dream
>Get the NK dream weapon apparently
Either souls is retarded or you are retarded
>>336200912
they don't even have the same god damn VA, not to mention, you can kill her, take her fucking sou and Shannalot is back at the god damn fire.
you even find out the Heralds origin, she was a failure and they made her a firekeeper.
>>336197483
To be fair artorias didn't fight Manus at his 100%, he left his shield with sif and had a broken arm, on top of all that he fought Manus in the abyss, his home turf.
When we fight Manus we have the pendant and the help of sif which is much more than he had
>>336200858
No. Ludleth is the Soulfeeder.
CU is phase 1 of Soul of cinder
>>336200879
>Dragon stone chest says you can visit archdragon peak only in deep meditation
>The cutscene to get there is literally your character falling asleep and fading to black
Getting items and being unable to die are just basic videogame mechanics.
>>336200951
gr8 b8 m8 i give it 8/8.
theres some untold event that keep happening. everyone links fire, undead rise and everything goes hell then suddenly some civilization builds really big castles and same thing happens
>>336200743
I think DS2 sucks but it had a better story in retrospect than 3. 2 tried something different and the DLC cleared up a lot of the stupid vague shit whereas 3 is just a big retread of DS1. Story wise it goes 1>SotFS>3>2
>>336201085
>Muh pendant
He shouldn't have walked into the fight unprepared and you can kill manus without it's just fucking hard.
>>336200770
>Gough
>Blind
Nah, pretty dumb though
>>336197976
underrated post
>>336201082
Anything past you beating Nash is not canon. It ends after you enter the throne, you do not return. EH is just there for gameplay
>>336200825
When you dream of fucking your sister do you wake up covered in blood and cum?
>>336196650
there is nothing in the armor
its a deification, an ideal that is manifest in the world
also, ash sseeks ember, so eventually more unkindled will come, hence only ones that are able to sustain the fire should enter. that means trials
or something
>>336201012
>What is Ashen Mist Heart
>>336200997
obviously not as he was a motherfucking elite knight of Gwyn for thousands of years.
the only lie is that he didn't actually defeat Manus.
>>336200965
cause its in the Abyss, its some sort of future version of the real place, or the actual real place, either way, its a shithole.
>>336201160
he wasn't blind but he had 2 much pride to take off the helmet given by lord Gwen
it was stuffed with resin and he just adapted to not seeing
>>336197062
Spiral dildo sword not good enough for you, unkindled-kun?
>>336200943
>Fume Knight weilded Artorias sword
When? The Majestic Greatsword you find in Brume Tower was never used by Raime, its Deacription even says the last known owned was a knight of Forossa.
Archedragon peak feels distinctly like it was built where the Undead Asylum was.
that tip top peak is uncanny, it feels exactly the same.
>>336201106
So no, you can't?
>Gwyn links the first flame and is weakened because of it, becoming a shell of his former self
>Other lords of cinder link the flame
>But somehow they get powered up by it
Nothing in the game makes any sense. Miyazaki is senile as fuck.
>>336201373
Kinda weird you could not get all of those weapon types. It did not have to transform but getting them as separate items would have been pretty cool.
>>336201204
That area would be a giant retarded waste of time if they didn't at least give it a point beyond "last game, better throw in the firstborn to tie up that loose end". Getting items and usable things in videogame dreams is about as uncommon as the classic sitcom trope of something from a dream or nightmare showing up on the characters nightstand the next morning.
>>336201230
An item not in DS3.
>>336198445
Its never stated that, the curse bearer could have as easily left and somebody else linked the flame
>>336198007
How does that make him stronger than anyone else?
>>336201102
>can literally summon an NPC who is only there for an item, which he gets in your game
>THATS BASIC MECHANICS
No, youre literally retarded
>>336201454
they don't, individually they are nothing.
the Soul of Cinder is strong because it retains bits of power from everyone who linked it.
something that wouldn't burn, such as the humanity of the individuals, accrued.
>>336197784
unlikely anyone could match lord of sunlight gwyn
yhorm also apparently takes normal damage if you hit his arms
Fuck were the skeleton dragon things before/after dragonslayer armour. Just skeleton dragons?
>>336201454
They never linked it.
A Lord of Cinder is a title given to someone who is used to sacrafice themselves as Kindling in a ritual for a single vessel to link the flame.
"Knowest thou of our purpose?
Five thrones will take five Lords, as kindling for the linking of the Fire.
The fast fading Flame must be linked to preserve this world.
A re-enactment of the first linking of the fire.
So it is, I became a Lord of Cinder. I may be but small, but I will die a colossus.
>>336201618
>He visits archdragon peak in meditation and gets the other half
>You get you half in you dream and he duels you for it
No, this area is a fucking dream. Sorry champ.
>>336201679
They were the tree hollows you kept seeing around
>>336201679
Hollowfrees
>>336200951
Demon Souls isn't part of the canon. It's all fucked up because humans started to harness the power of demon souls in an attempt to gain more power, which is a trap made by the God of that world to consume as many souls as it possibly can as the use of souls increases the amount of souls availible to eat.
As for DS2, I have no idea. It's like Miyazaki just sort of references it while ignoring its canon.
>>336201608
Because they were his only means of dying until he got Nerfed by abyss.
>>336197442
prince lothric refused to link the fire so a magical bell rings and brings back the other people who did link the fire
they weren't interested in linking the fire either
you kill them all so you can enter the kiln and link the fire or steal it
>>336201006
It sounds more like you're cynical than anything else. A writer can mention old characters, especially since they were the cornerstone of the previous work and the new work's story is built upon the previous work. Of course people would look upon the stories of the past with reverence because that is exactly what the people in DS1 did but we didn't play when Gywn was taking over the age of dragons.
>>336201745
>he gets the other half in YOUR dream
Jesus. I thought the whole "Yorksha is Ocelotte theory was stupid" but this ADP is a dream theory takes the cake.
>>336201736
this
the only one that even remotely tried was yohm and look what happened.
not that anyone cares, but I finally finished DS3 with a ng+ dex char and and a ng magic char. I have about 80 hours (not a lot but I have a life)
My thoughts:
Cons:
-worst lore (could have been SOOO much better, they had some great scenery to build upon)
-least varied environments and world
-I never felt I was on an adventure or too far out etc.
-easiest by a large margin
Pros:
-smoothest gameplay, best iteration of the engine
-top tier multiplayer. Best MP experience yet
MP is why I can forgive the short, half assed sp.
>>336201082
>you even find out the Heralds origin, she was a failure and they made her a firekeeper
According only to the Herald herself.
>>336201102
>your character falling asleep and fading to black
And the sound of dragon wings. Is that just coincidence?
>>336201736
Doesn't Ludleth literally say that he linked the fire long ago? And now he's doing it a second time? I assumed that since they burn up most of their soul to do so, they need more than one of them gathered in the same place. The only one of the big 5 who definitely didn't link the fire previously is Prince Lothric.
>>336200951
DeS isn't connected to DaS, DaS is purely a spiritual successor and is in no way a sequel.
>>336201736
Then why are Gwyn and the CU known as Lords of Cinder?
>>336200743
ds2 had the best pvp, I think most people can agree on this
>>336200914
>>336200914
>>336200957
>>336201012
>>336201068
>>336201204
PC cucks will never understand the power of dreams.
>>336201917
It's his dream. Because of the nature of time in Lothric these events can occur simultaneously or out of order and summoning can take place. This isn't even 'dream physics' this is just how the fucking game works. Sorry your favorite part of the game is a dream. Try not to let it ruin your day.
>>336202072
Bearer of the Curse is know as Lord of Cinder too, and he never links the first flame.
>>336201982
worst lore, how, how is DS2 better than this? The story here was some of the clearest it has ever been and made a lot of sense. The environment was amazing and blows every other place in Dark souls out of the fucking water. The adventure part is on you and how easy it is may be because you've played a shit ton of DS 1 and DS2. I had problems on bosses just as I had in DS1 and DS2. I would say DS2 was a lot easier.
>>336202049
surprise mothafucka
>>336201608
Yhorm was OP as fuck. Him linking the flame destroyed an entire city(?) and he had to give away his two best weapons so he'd be trusted and other people would have a chance to defeat him if he went insane. What I kinda dislike about these games is that you sometimes don't get to fight people at their prime. Yhorm was nerfed to absolute hell (no dual Storm-rulers and corrupted by the Abyss).
>>336202159
Explain how you can see it before even knowing the gesture?
Sorry your headcanon is debunked.
>>336199749
but artorias left his shield because his arm was broken, implying he had already been beaten, sif wasn't protected by the shield but by the covenant ring, after artorias left his ring he was corrupted by the abyss
The Soul of Cinder tried to stop you from reaching the flame for the same reason Yhorm fought you instead of returning to his throne, despite him being a hero who willingly linked it the first time.
The Lords of Cinder do not want the First Flame to keep burning. Their souls are trapped in it burning as fuel, tortured forever. They want to just let it burn out and finally rest. Yhorm was lucky enough to be revived by the bell, and he is not going back. He'd rather sit miserably in his destroyed city.
The exception to this is Ludleth, because the only importance he ever felt in his life was sacrificing himself to prolong the Flame. Like he said, he's small, but he died "a colossus". He prefers burning forever rather than being the little pathetic man who didn't matter.
That was my interpretation of it, at least.
What were the pilgrims with the stones on their back doing?
Reading about the dragonslayer armor it makes it sound like the dudes with the stones on their back are the same ones that are the weird hollows turning into trees, and are the same skeleton tree dragon things floating around during the dragonslayer armor fight. Is that right? Do we know anything more about why they were turning to trees/dragons?
>>336197253
Ornstein being an illusion is like the default shit reasoning for a retcon right next to everything being a dream.
>>336202082
It's true, I didn't finished my last SotFS playthrough because I was fight clubbing in Iron Keep every day
>>336202174
When is he refered to as a Lord of Cinder? Certainly not after the ending where he doesn't. He links the fire in the original ending.
>>336202297
When is CU refered to as Lord of Cinder?
>>336202037
>And the sound of dragon wings. Is that just coincidence?
Yeah? You hear sounds throughout the entire sequence and the first boss is a massive wyvern. Which, if memory serves is the only thing with wings in sight
>>336196495
Well I'd assume he fought my character because I went there with the intention to snuff out the flame
Can someone give me a quick rundown of the Souls premise?
I'm 40 hours in to DaS3 and played a little of DaS2 and the NPCs have been very vague about what is actually going on.
In DaS2, I know I'm undead and I want to kill the greatest creature in land to get its souls. Why?
Do I get another chance at life or eternal rest if I do?
What's the difference between me and the mindless zombies?
Is the land I'm in the same land where I died or is this a completely different place?
Why do I respawn on death?
Why aren't all the other covenants working towards my goal as well?
>>336202221
DS2 is harder simply because its design is worse. Its the reason why Monster Hunter Freedom Unite is harder than 4.
>>336197253
>3 options
>uses the word "both"
Daily reminder: You're a retard.
>>336202297
>Bearer of the curse
>Links the fire
No...he sits on the throne of want.
Throne of want =/= Kiln of first flame.
>>336202291
I completely forgot about finishing the game for about 50 hours because of the arena, grand lancing / caestus all day
>fucked up lore with plotholes up the ass
>"no it works because DREAMS and ILLUSIONS!"
that's what I though, excuses to reuse assets from dks1 to make it sound 2dip when it's actually shit
>>336202242
It is a literal place yes, that you can visit via deep meditiation (Which is exactly what happens in-game). It is a dream and/or astral projection of some kind
>>336202138
Is it me or does it seem like bloodborne is aset after dark souls?
breaking the curse, the dark age of humanity, seeking the deep, drink the blood a new curse forms
>>336202226
>Edmond
Literally who? I don't remember that being a character in DeS.
>>336202138
Nameless king and shit shitty dragons aren't eldrich being though
>>336202330
By Frampt and everyone telling you to succeed Gwyn as the new Lord of Cinder.
>>336202494
100% just you.
>>336202494
Mate just wait in the deep dlc we are going to meet the real aldrich and the old ones/
>>336202368
there is a magical bonfire that keeps everything going, shit gets bad if it goes out
you wanna make it so shit doesn't go bad
kill everyone who gets in your way
>>336202481
>its a literal place
>its a dream
You literally hear a dragon, which likely picked you up to walk the path of the dragon
But you keep believing your headcanon
>>336202235
>What I kinda dislike about these games is that you sometimes don't get to fight people at their prime
Because It wouldn't make sense otherwise
How could a random undead Ashen One be able to defeat a Lord in his prime?
>>336202264
It could be possible that they went insane. You could see that the onion knight had a promise he had to keep and I think it was to make sure Yorhm did his duty even if he went nuts. The only ones who left and would speak to you were the prince brothers and it seemed they wanted out of the cycle. The same shouldn't be assumed for all of them.
>>336202693
infinite retries
>>336202559
>Believing Serpents
Anon...
>>336202368
In all the games you're getting big and powerful souls so you can use all their power to restart the first flame that powers the world.
When you do this you get all burnt up like Ludleth at best and die at worst, but the world gets to keep on trucking.
The zombies are what happen to you when you die a lot and run out of souls and give up and shut the game off forever
You might be in the same land as where you died in DS3, in DS2 you aren't. They leave lore regarding your character nonexistent so you can RP it if you want.
You respawn on death because you're an undead. It's what they do.
All the covenants got their own goals, it's why they're covenants. Not really sure what you're asking with that one.
>>336201085
All I'm saying is artorias had less than the player did in that fight
>>336202659
Alright, if you want to take it at face value, where is the dragon? The first boss of the area that goes out of its way to kill everything in sight?
>>336196495
Wasn't the Throne of Want supposed to put the undead curse on the Giants?
>>336202348
What's more likely, that you were carried there by a dragon while in deep meditation, or LOL DREAMS GUYS
>>336202368
>In DaS2, I know I'm undead and I want to kill the greatest creature in land to get its souls. Why?
Because you need huge souls to get strong, and you can't replace the King if you aren't strong
>Do I get another chance at life or eternal rest if I do?
Neither?
>What's the difference between me and the mindless zombies?
You haven't lost hope (yet)
>Is the land I'm in the same land where I died or is this a completely different place?
Different, you arrive at Drangleic through the weird lake portal in the intro cinematic
>Why do I respawn on death?
Because that's how being undead works. You have a Darksign in your inventory, that's the brand that marks you undead and prevents you from having a natural death.
>Why aren't all the other covenants working towards my goal as well?
Because there are very few sane people left and most of them are just trying to get by. Most of them don't really give a shit about you or your quest.
>>336202740
It would still be impossible, you're expecting the PC to just "get lucky" one time and hope he kills a Lord?
No matter how many times you jump out of an airplane without a parachute, you're going to die everytime.
>>336197253
Oh fuck off with that Artorias shit. The nigga was such a punk bitch he couldn't even go through the Abyss without succumbing and couldn't even take a hit from Manus, WITH A FUCKING GREATSHIELD, without shattering his arm. Not to mention he literally uses the Abyss power to buff himself during the fight. Prime Artorias would probably be an easier fight, just a more tedious one since he would have a shield. Artoriasfags are the biggest faggot I swear to God, even worse than Solairefags.
>>336202368
>In DaS2, I know I'm undead and I want to kill the greatest creature in land to get its souls. Why?
Because some crazy lady told you that if you do you might not become a mindless husk
>Do I get another chance at life or eternal rest if I do?
Presumably
>What's the difference between me and the mindless zombies?
You're not mindless yet
>Is the land I'm in the same land where I died or is this a completely different place?
Different place, you come to Drangleic because all Undead are drawn to there
>Why do I respawn on death?
Because hollows are branded by the darksign, Undeath as a condition gives them immortality but slowly erodes their mind, and chains them to the bonfires
>Why aren't all the other covenants working towards my goal as well?
Because they're too busy beating the hell out of one another.
Do note thought, this in no way explains the premise of the series, because Dark Souls II in particular sidesteps a lot of the lore.
>>336202264
well that would make Ludleth the "bigger" man than them all, selfish or not, he signed up to burn, and then he fucking signed up again.
it is apparantly not a pleasant or fun time, all the others linked willingly (sans Lotheric) and were NOT KEEN on doing it again.
so I give him props.
>>336202751
And? They call you a Lord of Cinder. You find out by reading Gwyn's soul in NG+ what the title really meant. It wasn't just Frampt who calls you that either, I'm pretty sure Gwyndolin does too, or the Fire Keeper in Anor Londo.
The term Lord of Cinder originated in DS1 as a title given to the two characters who linked the flame. There is no reason to believe that the title changes by the time DS3 rolls around.
>>336201253
>either way, its a shithole.
Why? Just because it is dark?
Are you afraid of the dark, little boy?
Daily reminder the Abyss did nothing wrong and we humans are literally made from it.
Embrace it instead of betraying your roots for some slutty flame.
>>336202548
They're eternal, unknowable, inhuman creatures. What's the difference?
>>336202772
Thanks anon.
>>336200679
>Artorias is stronger
>Normal version of weapon is shittier than the corrupted
>gets access to the Rage mode only because the abyss powers him
>pocket sand
>Sif is found nowhere near Manus implying he couldn't even make it
>Artorias' rise to fame is a complete fake and the Chosen Undead is the real Abysswalker
No, get the wolf dick out of your mouth, Gough and Ornstein are the only ones who live up to their reputation
Artorias was a failure
>>336202790
It makes more sense then being able to pick up items in a dream.
>HURR DURR MECHANICS
Name 1 other time this game broke mechanics for something related to lore.
>>336202891
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/skydiver-survives-8-000-foot-fall-parachute-fails-article-1.1291265
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Alkemade
http://www.today.com/news/skydiving-miracle-man-falls-two-miles-2D80556106
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435377/The-man-fell-12-000-ft---survived.html
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/skydiver-survives-14000-foot-fall-3699030
>>336197253
Reminder that Nito had a cult of fuckers draining his power for who knows how loong.
Reminder that Seath is insane, blind and old.
Remainder that Izalith was mindless animal.
Remainder that most of the big names you fight are nothing but shades of their former selves. A shitty human could not do shit to anyone if they where at their 100%.
>>336198007
>Yhorm made Siegward promise to kill him
>yet when Siegward shows up, Yhorm starts fighting him
explain this
>>336202891
bitch plenty of people have survived landing on solid ground without a chute.
some even walk away from it.
>>336202948
>all the others linked willingly (sans Lotheric)
I was under the impression that Lothric was willing the first time around, but the second time, after the bell toiled again, he said hell no.
It was Aldrich that they had to tie up and offer to the First Flame like a banquet.
>>336202415
Unless the thing you want the most is to have the fire linked. It's like the wish granter from STALKER.
>>336202891
>No matter how many times you jump out of an airplane without a parachute, you're going to die everytime.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Alkemade
>>336203035
beat me to it
>>336202494
sorry that was really badly tyoed, its pitch black
so basically cycles. Why is there undead in the dungeons , how come there are pyromancers, why does the deep deform humans, why did the blood create a state like that of undead in the hunters
the first sinner and ds 3 all talk about the deep and the age of men past the curse and loerds, so what if it happened and as with cycles we created the second sin- harnessing the deep to enter an age that would allow humans to transcend- just like the lords
>>336202887
>What's more likely, that you were carried there by a dragon while in deep meditation, or LOL DREAMS GUYS
Then why would they go out of their way to make sure you knew your character was falling alseep? That never had trouble showing your character being transported (if they were transported) before except in this case. Think about the way the cutscene is presented compared to everything else and the ramifications therin.
>>336202226
>>336202525
Oh wait yeah the blacksmight that makes boss souls.
Either way that's more likely a nod to DeS than a legitimate tie, unless you want to say the stormrulers from DeS and 3 have the same origins too. They've explicitly said the two games aren't connected.
>>336202996
>Unknowable
But they're not. that makes them not eldrich
>>336202368
The Undead are cursed in the Dark Souls universe. It's basically a disease that makes you unable to die normally. Instead, you "hollow", which basically means you live as undead long enough or painfully enough that you lose all willpower and become a mindless zombie like the hollowed enemies.
Although in DS3, you're not Undead. You're an Unkindled instead, which basically means you're more of a long dead person brought back to life because you have the potential to be a Lord of Cinder.
Lords of Cinder are people who link the First Flame. The First Flame is kinda like the soul of the world, maybe. Gods want to keep it lit. When people "link the flame", they sacrifice themselves to make it last longer for some number of years. The Age of Dark (also known as Age of Men) is expected to come after the Age of Fire, when no one links the flame and it finally burns out. But some also think that even ages of fire and dark are cyclical, and a new flame will reemerge eventually no matter what.
In DS3 you're basically trying to get strong enough to either link the flame or to usher in the Age of Dark.
>>336201982
How can someone's opinion be this shit? I just can't believe it.
>Worst Lore not DS2
>Least varied environments not Bloodborne
>easiest not Bloodborne or DS1
>Smoothest gameplay not Bloodborne
>Best multiplayer notDS2
>DS3's multiplayer not shit
Just end yourself my man.
>>336203018
Purfied Artorias Greatsword is the strongest weapon in the entire Souls series, statistically.
>>336202993
Kaathe pls go and stop pretending your Abyss is just a harmless slumber party
>>336203126
>They've explicitly said the two games aren't connected.
the two games can't LEGALLY be explicitly connected.
"you get what you pay for" is a nudge nudge wink wink. we didn't pay for the rights to demon's souls, so this is all we can give you
either way, boletaria confirmed for continent in souls world.
>>336196495
finished the grand archives. Is there an equipment item that explains the candle holders' fixation of wax? or is it just supposed to be self-evident as a defense measure against the cursed books?
also, why is the founding inspiration of lothric's religion imprisoned in a birdcage? Or is it the actual angel who visited the holy lady in there?
>>336200679
That was never mentioned, we hardly know anything about Artorius aside from the lore that he was a knight of Gwyn, fought Darkwraiths, went to the Abyss, and then went corrupt. There isn't much power level shit in Souls.
>>336203102
Lotheric is the current one to go into the fire, as in, he hasn't done it yet, but COULD do it.
him and his bro said FUCK that and went into their castle to die and watch it all fade away, they found out what vendrick and co. found out and opted out.
you force them.
>>336203054
Yhorm was affected by the Abyss. Red eyes mean the abyss took hold on them.
>>336203054
Why do you need to convince someone to kill you in the future? Because in said future you'll be either incapable of doing so, or insane
>>336203054
Why else did Superman give Batman kryptonite? In case there was a situation in which Yhorn/Superman went nuts
>>336203035
>>336203062
alright poor example,
the fact is that even with infinite retries, Yhorm was still invincible in his prime. Literally invincible, he could not be touched or hurt. It wasn't until he gave away his shield and gave his stormrulers to people as a deterrent, and when the abyss corrupted him causing him to be weak and no longer invincible did the anyone actually have a chance to defeat him.
>>336202993
I ain't no filthy flame linker but fuck you if you think the Abyss is just harmless.
>>336203120
Then why is it I can teleport on the bonfires if im asleep?
>>336203154
>Although in DS3, you're not Undead.
You have a Dark Sign. You're undead.
>>336199887
It was a joke to explain all the ladders.
>>336203120
>Then why would they go out of their way to make sure you knew your character was falling alseep?
Because the inhabitants of the level are some kind of religious cult and your meditation is a rite of passage to prove you're worthy of being let in. The whole thing is an elaborate trial. Did you miss the hundreds of dead meditating dragon people? Did you notice that nothing happens if you just use the sit gesture instead of path of the dragon?
>>336202584
>>336202632
>>336203113
also If they do that and wrap both titles up ill fucking loose my shit in happiness
>>336203345
I think you'll find you can do a lot of thing in dreams that you can in your waking life
>>336203154
Unkindled in a title, but you and others are referred to in game as undead. You have the Darksign, too.
>>336203336
nobody is arguing this anon
theres a reason that linking the fire happens at the end of the cycle. I'm sure you could line up the first 1000 lords of cinder after gwyn and 100% gwyn could cut all 1000 of them in half in one stroke.
>>336203175
>being this retarded on every point
Especially on MP
-invasions actually happening
-larger battles
-better connections
-varied covenants
Also
>bloodborne
Top kek I know your shit opinion was b8
>>336203387
>Did you miss the hundreds of dead meditating dragon people? Did you notice that nothing happens if you just use the sit gesture instead of path of the dragon?
Did you miss the dragonstone description that literally tells you the way to visit archdragon peak is in deep meditation?
>>336196495
in Japan the boss is called Avatar of the Lords or something similar.
It's the combined conscious of the Lords of Cinder, most of whom you'll remember were very unwilling to sit in their thrones and deal with your shit.
>>336203350
>>336203429
Why do you never hollow unless Yeol fucks with you, then? Are you somehow immune?
>>336201483
and a great reason to do ng+++
i already want to do a soul of cinder cosplay build but if i can legit do the miracles, sorceries, pyromances, and straight up smashing AND have all the weapons? shit, i'd get to level 200+ for that
>>336197360
Manus wasn't stronger than Artorias.
Artorias was just too far from humanity to handle the darkness of the abyss.
It's like a type weakness.
>>336203232
>the two games can't LEGALLY be explicitly connected
In video game land it does
It's a "nudge nudge wink wink we made that game, remember?"
Or do you want to say Jak and Daxter take place in the same universe as Uncharted since you can find precursor orbs in that game?
>>336203530
Ask the Bearer of the Curse.
>>336203530
He awakens your dark sign, if I remember his dialogue
>>336203530
the events of dark souls 2 cause humanity to not be afflicted with the dark sign by default anymore
>>336203509
>Did you miss the dragonstone description that literally tells you the way to visit archdragon peak is in deep meditation?
Because a fucking dragon picks you up and takes you there, not because the whole level is in your imagination.
>>336202368
>in DaS2, I know I'm undead and I want to kill the greatest creature in land to get its souls. Why?
This allows you to add fuel to the fire. It prolongs the age of fire. When the age of fire grows to an end, crazy shit starts happening. In every Age of Dark, there seems to be unbelievable pain and suffering, and eventually an end to civilizations.
>Do I get another chance at life or eternal rest if I do?
In dark souls 2, the premise was you could delay the effects of the undead curse, which reverts humans back to their original form. The original form is a very feeble and weak one, and one could think mindless in a sense, primal in fact. Think of Greek God stories where humans were given fire. Here the Gods have given humans fire and some wish to uphold it while others think it is better to go back to how things were. If you get a shit ton of souls, all it does it helps control that curse.
>What's the difference between me and the mindless zombies?
Much, they've lost their sanity and can no longer be thought of as "human." Their personality and all the other characteristics that make them human seem to have left and all they are is a hollow shell of what they once were. Some enjoy this state.
>Is the land I'm in the same land where I died or is this a completely different place?
The souls, primarily the first lords, seem to have saturated the land and space with their power so everything keep returning with a similar theme. The land reflects them and they reflect their land.
>Why do I respawn on death?
This is the curse itself. You are undead and cannot die. You will live but your sanity will only leave after time unless you can keep your power.
>Why aren't all the other covenants working towards my goal as well?
Some don't understand the big picture while others are working to their own end. Some don't care how it ends as well I think and are caught up completely in their own affairs.
Who would win in a fight between Ornstein and Artorias? Both at the peak of their skill.
