>hurr I was just pretending to be liquid
>>336111085
Fuck off, Liquid.
>>336111226
>>336111085
I think it's apparent that in MGS2 he really was being possessed by Liquid. Otherwise he wouldn't really have any reason to swap out the arm.
>>336111085
>HYPNOTIC SUGGESTIONS
The whole Liquid Ocelot thing was the dumbest part of 2.
The game with Rose, an implied gay relationship with a BBC marine and a flamenco Vampire, the president grabbing Raiden's balls and many more smash hits of stupid shit.
And 4 was the lamest story wise, even moreso than V and GZ.
>>336111362
I like to think he was merely pretending even back then
>>336111085
He wasn't pretending, he really believed he was liquid.
Snake had to give him terminal brain damage before he could remember who he really was, he actually beat the liquid out of him.
>>336111613
Possible, but that doesn't make as much sense.
>>336112489
It allows him to work against The Patriot's interests while still pretending to be their man on the inside.
>he really believed he was liquid.
BUT FUCKING WHYYYYYYY FOR WHAT PURPOSE
His dad was a medium and he inherited the weakness to possession. There's magic in MGS and its why the game doesn't entirely suck.
>>336111085
>hurr I was secretly using you to do what I needed done despite attempting to stop and kill you at every step
Why did his voice change?
Kojima is a hack and his story is spaghetti
>>336112605
To fool the PATRIOTS.I'm serious.
>>336112587
Yeah, that was the whole point of his Liquid facade in MGS4. But if he were merely affecting it through hypnosis in MGS2 also there wouldn't have been any reason for him to replace the arm. The arm replacement does make sense, however, if he were looking for a more stable way of adopting Liquid's persona. There's also basic storytelling bits which support this, like his father being the Sorrow (an obvious reference at the time to Ocelot being possessed in the previous game), and the fact MGS4 makes a deliberate reveal out of Ocelot's prosthesis during his fight with Snake at the end of the game.
>>336112720
To deceive The Patriots, he wanted them to believe he'd been taken over by Liquid completely and was effectively going to repeat the events of Shadow Moses, staging another insurrection, so they would send Snake, the man that knows him best and already killed him once before after him again
In reality, he was executing a plan to kill them all with a cyber attack.
>>336111085
Wasn't there a secret cassette tape in mgsv that retcons Ocelot's entire motive by having him hypnotise himself in order to help Liquid while Miller helps Solid? So everything post mgsv isn't the real Ocelot but his hypnotised self that wants to carry out Big Bosses' plan without actually knowing the truth even though he did?
>>336113956
Just ignore everything after 4.
>looks exactly like Ocelot
>sounds exactly like Ocelot
>everyone still calls him Liquid
>>336113956
No, he was to convince himself that Venom was the real Big Boss, but it would only be temporary.
>>336111546
>And 4 was the lamest story wise, even moreso than V
>even moreso than V
But anon, MGSV HAD NO STORY AT ALL
>>336111085
>DUDE SNAKE I WAS ON YOUR SIDE THE ENTIRE TIME EVEN THOUGH I SHOT AT YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS WITH MACHINE GUNS, TRIED TO KILL YOU WITH A METAL GEAR, AND TRIED TO RUN YOU DOWN WITH A GIANT AI CITY SHIP LMAO
>ALSO I COULD'VE TOLD YOU THIS BEFORE YOU KILLED ME BUT THEN WE WOULDN'T HAVE THIS EPIC SHIRTLESS FIST FIGHT
Ocelot really did get possessed by Liquid in MGS2 which is why he secretly removed the arm when he regained control and got a prosthetic. He continued letting everyone believe nothing changed and even used nanomachines + his own skills in brainwashing himself to create the idea in his own head that he was liquid.
as you kick his ass at the end of mgs4, you not only first see the fake arm, but you slowly revert his mind back to its normal self throughout each stage of the fight.
>>336112697
But Liquid would have no way of taking advantage of such a thing. It's an interesting point, but the only guy who'd be able to use it would be Psycho Mantis.
And people complain about VOCAL CORD PARASITES to be ridiculous.
>>336114441
It was ridiculous, but no one ever said it was worse than the Liquid possession thing in MGS2.
>>336114354
why did he keep pretending to be liquid ocelot for so long? If he really wanted to overthrow them after the first year or so couldn't he gradually go back to being himself and they wouldn't notice?
>>336114165
Because he acts exactly like Liquid.
>>336111085
Liquid Snake died in MGS. Fox Die.
MGS2 was a mistake.
Every single installment of the series after the first one was a mistake.
Hideo is a deranged madman with no plan and no will to make sense of any storyline ever.
Is Ocelot bad or good?
Are Patriots bad or good?
Do you play for the bad guys in every game except PW and V then?
i don't understand, the lore and characters change perspective each game.
>>336114441
I like to think vocal cord parasites was supposed to be contemptuous to players who had some things explained to them with nanomachines in 4 but still weren't content. People still asked for literally every last detail to be explained so Kojima just went "OK you want answers, here, it was all ORGANIC nanomachines that have existed forever, can do anything and are responsible for everything anyone ever did in the history of the human race. There, now you never have to ask another stupid question again."
But that's just my interpretation and not based on any real evidence.
>>336112489
It makes more sense, since it explains Fortune's apparently supernatural feats, as Ocelot just reactivating her magnetic device before launching RAY's payload.
He talks in his normal Ocelot voice right after hijacking RAY.
>>336114682
No he does't.
>>336111085
I refuse to believe he was only pretending. They fucking went out of their way to say his dad was a medium, and Big Boss met that very medium while having a near death experience while drowning. I mean, they make no bones about it, this is a universe where magic can exist... is it so illogical or world-breaking to say Ocelot inherited some variation of The Sorrow's powers, and Liquid literally, as a ghost, possessed him?
>>336114971
>I like to think vocal cord parasites was supposed to be contemptuous to players who had some things explained to them with nanomachines in 4 but still weren't content.
>get mad a few autists
>ruin the whole thing for everyone
Classic George Lucas-tier move right there
Find a better character than Ocelot
Protip :You can't
>>336115445
Solidus
>>336115445
But every character is interchangeable anon, that's the whole point of this thread.
>double think
>v has come to
>"Yeah I hypnotize myself all the time, John. It's part of my job, you know."
God fucking dammit, Kojima
>>336112774
Interestingly enough, Ocelot's Japanese VA died before MGS4 was made, so in the Japanese version of that game he is voiced by the original Liquid VA. Kinda really changes things
>>336111085
He wasn´t pretending, he made himself believe that he genuinly was liquid.
Big difference.
>>336112587
Which is equally as stupid.
>your agent is possessed by someone who wants to kill them
>it's okay, guys. As long as he's not actually trying to kill us.
Never ever should they have had Ocelot just "pretending"
>>336114771
Bringing Liquid back was a bad move, but MGS2 wasn't a mistake. It's superior to MGS1 in several respects, and avoids the problems of MGS3 and the games after it in terms of game design.
MGS2 has its issues, but it's a very well-defined game. Especially with all the extra shit Substance gives.
>>336115018
Not really. See >>336114354 and >>336112901
Also, Liquid only possessed Ocelot after he gets in RAY, IIRC. The whole point was that he blew the lid off of the whole thing and was leaving with RAY back to the Patriots. Then Liquid possessed him because BRRROOOTHERS.
>>336115445
Ocelot stopped being interesting after MGS3. MGS4 reduced his character to the most boring motivations possible.
>>336117240
wanting to fuck Big Boss is literally the only real motivation ocelot has ever had
>>336117772
Fair enough. But the fact his allegiance ultimately aligned with an all-powerful shadow organization was interesting enough.
Having Ocelot turn on the Patriots is fine, but having his motivations be yet-another-Big-Boss-legacy thing was beyond dull.
>>336117169
>No problems... proceeding as planned, sir. Yes, at the location we discussed. Yes. I have photographic evidence of Snake on the scene.
You're saying Liquid was pretending to be Ocelot, when he's on the phone to President Johnson?
>>336114441
Yeah, vocal parasites where pretty good and throroughly explained in comparison
>>336117240
Yeah. In MGSV he is a stay at home mom
>>336118358
Oh, you meant at the beginning of the game. That's a good point. I still think all evidence suggests he really was being possessed, though. The hair change, MGS3, the arm replacement. They add up.
>>336117772
>>336117240
>>336118131
The fact that Metal Gear's story was retconned to be about people who have a hard on for 2 characters ruined the social commentary of the series.
>Muh Boss
>Muh Big Boss.
>>336115193
>>336111085
Didn't they mention that it was real in MGS2, but then it was too risky and so Ocelot switch the plan to Merely Pretending instead?
>>336118358
Liquid only seemed to be able to posses Ocelot when Snake was near. Ocelot is also aware when this happens, so after "Liquid" destroyed the tanker and fled with RAY, he faded back into the arm and Ocelot was like "Cool, saved me the trouble."
>>336118905
The series storyline definitely got pretty soapy and boring because of it.
MGS2 in a nutshell:
>Solidus: I'll leave you alive, Jack, because you're still manipulable!
>Fortune: Speaking of manipulation, it's time for me to steal Arsenal since I've been manipulating you from the start!
>Solidus: Actually, I tricked Ocelot into manipulating you into manipulating me!
>Ocelot: Fools! I've been manipulating everything from behind the scenes!
>Magic Hand: But actually, I've been manipulating you!
>Raiden: Alright, this has officially become a load of crap.Source: http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Site/ThumbnailMetalGearSolid2-05
