why are invasions so unfair for on the invader side?
>halved estus
>health penalty
>able to get seed at the start of the game
>ganks
I just want to have fun.
Because you're invading.
The only single bullshit thing about invasions are the hosts ability to keep summoning once you wipe the floor with all their phantoms. Anything else just makes you look like a bitch.
>>335897282
That's not a problem if you're purple.
>>335896750
homefield advantage
Because they wanted to disincentive invasions without giving people an excuse for yelling "casualization", wich is what it actually it.
Invasions were NEVER meant to be easy you fucking crybaby. Just be grateful you get an actual red eye orb this time around.
>>335896750
Because you're on the same side as the environmental hazards and nonplayer enemies. Mingle with skellies and blast gankers off the ledge with WoG.
>>335896750
because it's a single player focused game and you're invading the Host's privacy who just wants to play video games
>>335896750
Luck of the draw man.
Had you invaded me, I'd run to a bonfire and fight you to the death.
Then I'd farm more embers if I lost.
I'm not a piece of shit, also, what is there, some sort of fucking rank system? Who gives a shit if an invader kills you?
Run to the fucking bonfire.
>invaded by a dark spirit
Every fucking time
>>335896750
>Obscure ring
>Farron breakdancing sword
>A greatbow of any kind
>Firebombs
>Alluring skulls when seeded
Become the night
>>335897604
Invasions ARE incentivized.
They're the only way you can get more Pale Tongues.
Why the fuck do you think people do it now that its nerfed so hard?
>>335897787
You can farm them from dark wraiths.
>>335897787
>Why the fuck do you think people do it
Edgelords who think they're cool by killing other players.
>>335897880
I invade because it's fun. Being invaded is also fun.
>>335897880
if you don't wanna be killed go offline
>>335897787
>>335897880
>>335897953
Next expansion or game it's gonna be like: we are introducing the pvp mode to toggle off if you just want to play "in peace", just like wow pve servers.
>>335898102
How the fuck will I beat bosses without summoning though?
Threadly reminder that you're there to make things more interesting, and the sooner you accept that the sooner you'll start having fun.
Invaders are the heroes that won't sit idly by whilst people suffer the bland experience of steamrolling through levels with summons. Hosts probably won't thank them for it, or even realize that invaders are doing them a favor, but the game would be all the poorer for it without them.
>>335898102
*If you don't wanna be killed go play something that isn't Dark Souls retard
>in this game you're supposed to do whatever you can to your advantage get good
>h-hey don't use hacks
Higher level invasions seem to be better, either that or I keep invading fight clubs
>>335898180
>>335898151
by git gud
>>335898164
what's the matter buttercup got ganked by the big scary invader
>ITT: WAAAAH I CAN'T DEAL WITH INVADERS FROM PLEASE HOLD MY SKIRT FOR ME
Play in offline mode if you're so afraid of being invaded and experiencing part of the game.
>>335898395
>what's the matter buttercup got ganked by the big scary invader
What. I'm literally saying if you can't handle getting fucked by an invader or a host ganksquad, get fucking gud or get out of the game.
Op were you just invading the woods/Farron keep on pc? If so get fucked I'm the hide and seek master motherfucker.
>>335898139
There's already a fucking toggle, it's called "don't ember" or "turn your fucking router off"
>>335898495
oh nevermind misread your post
>Just playing through the second half of Irithyll solo after beating Pontiff
>Take out the two crocodog minibosses spending all but four of my estus
>Invaded by Aldrich Faithful!
>Wait for him to arrive, gesture at each other, neat, honorable duel
>Absolutely destroy him
>He chugs
>Proceed to force him to chug three more times while he only takes off half my health
>Invaded by Aldrich Faithful!
>Butthurt phantom climbs up the ladder to heal while his buddy keeps me occupied
>Still manage to have them both combined estus as much as me, not even counting the chugging the first one did before dying
Sure bro, whatever you say. The pussies complaining that they can't use the advantage of optimized builds, knowledge of the area and often immunity from the enemies to their advantage to deal with multiple people are surely not the same ones that need to chug and gank against a single guy without all that, right? Surely there must be two completely unrelated breeds of retarded invaders running around, right?
You just stay mad and never improve your PvP game and I'll be over here doing glorious Sunbruting with my npc allies.
>>335898601
What if i want to ember anyway!? And what if i dont know how to turn off a router!?!?!? That's racist.
This is going to happen nigga, anything with success in on a clock once the normies approach.
>>335897778
>Farron Breakdancing Sword
>become the night
Top kek
>>335896750
>>335898691
>literally pointing out that a host has as much estus as two invaders
You aren't helping your case
>>335898756
sadly this will happen in our lifetime
People actually invade?
>>335898787
It's calledgit gud
>>335898787
The point was that I had less than them to begin with because I'd been fighting PvE enemies beforehand. Which is just one of the details faggots that complain about invasions being unfair for the invader conveniently overlook.
Moreover, the first dude chugged as much estus as I had left to begin with and then the both of them combined chugged that amount again while ganking me. Surely you'll find a way to spin this in a way where these invaders are still the victims of my privileged host status, right?
>>335896750
This is why the game desperately needed an arena. Invading was balanced for actual invasions, y'know, when a host is half-way through an area they're unfamiliar with with only a few estus and having to deal with enemies.
>>335898151
>he needs NPCs and other players to beat the game for him
>>335899051
Except literally 95% of the time invasions will prioritize hosts who are fresh into an area who've already summoned two phantoms because he's a shitter, so you're argument falls apart.
If From is going to punish invaders for invading so much then they should just remove it already.
How come invasions gradually became more restricted with each Souls game?
DeS was a total free-for-all.
DaS applied minor rules.
DaS2 applied more rules.
DaS3 applied a lot of rules.
>>335899423
>not knowing an area where almost noone summons
Wasn't that hard to get the pure invasion covenant items, it's blue and region covenants that are the issue
>>335899439
normies happened
>>335896750
If there was one change to the invasion system I could make I'd make it so seeds could only be used if you have no phantoms summoned, going into a 3v1 or even 4v1 while the host seeds on top is just too brutal.
>>335899523
>game literally prioritizes ganksquads
No matter where you are it's almost always going to be 1v3
>b-but muh honorable duwals!!
Fuck off, invasion was meant to be the only form of pvp.
>>335899646Not in dragonshrine first bonfire, I get extremely low amounts of ganksquads and the few i get i can usually lure into lizardmen
>>335899439
And what kind of rule did Dark Souls have more than Demon's Souls exactly?
They were both SL based and on Demon's Souls, vaders had a health penalty.
>never summoned for Farron
>summoned once for Darkmoon
>summoned 3 times for Aldrich
Is connecting just shit or am I at a bad level range for ng+
>>335899841
Demon's gave you access the permanent invasion item as soon as you finished boletaria 1.
>>335899945
It was rather on the early 2-2 but I get what you mean
>>335896750
>Whining about having estus at all. You scrubs don't deserve any. Nothing is more pathetic than a phantom running away to heal like a pussy.
>Can't you just invade as embered? Can atleast redsign as one.
Ganks and seeds are pretty gay tho, but you just have to deal with those.
>>335899423
No, it doesn't. As invader, you're expected to be disasvantaged, because you risk very little. You're expected to play cleverly to win, because you have several numerical disasvantages but have more tactical advantages like (more) optimized gear, often more experience with both the area and the game overall, the enemies being on your side almost always (let's be honest here you encounter a seeded host much less often than a host without summons).
You're expected to ambush your targets while they're on difficult terrain or fighting a tough group of enemies. You're expected to retreat and wait for them further in the level. You're expected to take out that bow or casting implement or projectile consumable and snipe them from a distance. Everything to run down their resources until you can pick them off.
You know how this went in the past? In DS1 you'd go in with a max pyro flame, guaranteed safety from enemies, a large supply of humanity to heal with and an array of max or almost maxed weapons and armor, at any soul level. That plus all the above pretty much guaranteed a win against even endgame pve players.
In DS2 you could still have all that, all soul memory did was make it so that it would be more annoying for invaders to make their build and invade, but since pve players can't manage their soul memory they would still encounter mechanically superior opponents, and even if they did, well, what's five levels to a weapon with double the number of upgrades and an infusion?
DS3 is the first game where the host, rightfully, has the homefield advantage and where you as an invader are actually forced to use all those mechanics to win since you cannot rely on numerical superiority anymore, or at least not as a crutch.
>>335900297
>pls hold me hand from the scary invaders are too spooky even though I can 3v1 them and get twice their estus so I can just run away forever
Anybody unironically complaining about invaders should uninstall
>>335900147
Baby's Nail phantom in 3-1. It always drops from the first NPC black phantom you kill.
>>335900397
That all falls out the window when you realize that invasions prioritize ganksquads who can just steamroller through any level.
Don't forget that invaders lose all of their souls when they die and they get dropped at the spot that they were killed in the host's world, which further disincentivizes invasions.
Half estus is totally fine. Health penalty if a little iffy but ultimately an invader is supposed to be a stand-in for an enemy, having lower health makes sense. Tree is fine, git gud. Ganks are the issue but unfortunately unavoidable, if only they could try and match the number of invaders to the number of phantoms.
>>335900567
>Don't forget that invaders lose all of their souls when they die and they get dropped at the spot that they were killed in the host's world
I don't know what they were thinking with this.
>>335900567
It doesn't, because I literally just described how you can deal with ganksquads. They aren't invincible, you just shouldn't try to fight them head-on. And yes, a properly prepared ganksquad that plays smart will win, but it's designed to be that way. Hosts have an edge, because they risk much more - as an invader you can at least clear out the level and get your souls back easily and you don't need to fight through the entire area again since you have no reason to get to the boss room anymore.
>>335900708
>you have to rely on them being shit
That's awful game design, a not-braindead ganksquad will win almost every single time and a not-braindead ganksquad can easily just clear out a level fast, removing the terrain advantage that the invader holds.
Hosts risk pretty much exactly the same as invaders do, especially when you find most of them next to a bonfire because they just got done summoning two buttbuddies. There's a difference between one side holding a slight advantage and the cards being completely stacked against the other, there was literally no reason to prioritize ganksquads
>>335900708
>they risk much more
Oh no I lost an ember, good thing I died next to the bonfire so I can just grab my souls, pop another of my 100+ embers and summon my boyfriends again
1v3 isn't a problem. 1v4 is. The host summoning with no limits as when a phantom dies is. Seed are good since you can aggro mobs and throw them at the host
>>335896750
You're trying to hinder someone else.
Do you think people find it fun when someone random invades them and stops progress? potentially killing you?
You want PvP put signs down
Otherwise accept the terms for you being a dick.
Invasions aren't a core aspect, and you're literally fucking with that persons PvE (the core) experience, they deserve advantages.
>>335900415
No shit sherlock. Actually invaders don't need any form of heals, since they can just invade the same person again and again untill they run out of heals too d:-)
>>335901191
Oh no I have to walk for a minute at most to get my souls back at literally no risk before I can go invade someone else's world again to impede their progress and waste their ember with again, no risk but a minute's walk at most to get my souls and otherwise only rewards to gain!
>>335901342
>>335901464
Your point is still invalid. Gank squads and dickass invaders don't really risk anything.
>>335901464
That's still less risk than a host.
>impeding anyone's progress when 99.9% of the time they're right at the bonfire
LOL
>>335897509
>>335900567
You barely get any souls from killing hosts, so who cares about them? Covenant loot and embers are what invaders are supposed to be after. Why most covenants can be maxed out is retarded tho and removes their purpose.
>>335896750
You need to invade me more. 100% of the times I've been invaded, I stop paying attention and die before seeing the invader
Who cares about winning? I just want to cause mass chaos and act like a crazy asshole.
>>335900959
How often have you encountered said uncounterable ganksquad, really? When have you encountered a host that has already cleared out most or all of the level, and has used a seed in the former case, is experienced and has two experienced buddies with him? Oh wait, that's almost never, and even if you do you lose precisely dick except about a minute to get your bloodstains back from a level you can have leisurely cleared by yourself beforehand and then proceed on to any of the 99% of hosts who don't have that perfect invader-fucking setup going.
Stop trying to use the worst case scenario as a defense for invaders being disadvantaged, it's not hard to imagine the opposite scenario where you're already getting fucked by pve enemies before being invaded by two Farron or Aldrich buttbuddies with vastly superior gear.
>>335901817
>99% of hosts who don't have that perfect invader-fucking setup going
LOL
>>335901621
this image will never not make me smile.
>>335901590
>99.9% of the time there's a host waiting for you at the bonfire
So? Just win in that 1v1 then.
>B-but 99.9% of the time it's actually a ganksquad at the bonfire!
So? Just throw/shoot shit at them and get them to follow you into the level then. If you get bored before they do just fight them, possibly (likely) die, lose nothing since your bloodstain will be next to the bonfire in your world and go invade someone who doesn't have that "99.9%" doom scenario going.
>B-but muh seeds!
Spawncamping ganksquads with seeds are extremely rare, stop lying. Just let yourself die then and invade someone else, what's there to lose?
Jesus, what do people like you want? A scenario where you'll always have at least a fair fight or an advantage over the host? But then you're putting the host in the exact scenario you're complaining about. Always a fair matchup? But then where's the fun, there's only dueling left at that point and that negates most of the excitement of invading or getting invaded. What will make you happy, tell me that instead of complaining ceaselessly about all of these problems you imagine to be so gigantic.
>Enemy phantoms can hit each other
What the fuck were they thinking with this, in a 2v2 unless you split off and have 2 1v1s each, the invaders are going to be smacking the shit out of each other as much as the hosts. I fucking backstabbed my own teammate because he ran in front of me, felt like a complete dumbass but there's nothing you can do about it except take turns doing 2v1.
>>335902194
I want the game to not actively prioritize ganksquads for invaders.
>no popping a dried finger every time you get into the game
>not summoning one bro to Co op PvP and clear out the entire level so invaders can't hide like a bitch.
>not killing 8 invaders before falling in an honourable battle and re summoning you brought to do it again.
I'm Soul level 100, I'm inAnor Londo, and im witing for you.
>>335902194
>Just let yourself die then and invade someone else
Except most of the time you'll keep invading their world because they're popping fingers.
>Roleplay as a NPC Invader
>More victories than actually trying
I'm literally retarded
>>335896750
There is literally nothing better than drinking invadercuck tears
>>335902287
Fantastic, now you invade solo hosts most of the time, can use enemies to your advantage most of the time, can have a more optimized build most of the time and can have more experience most of the time. Congratulations, now you're always advantaged unless the host is an experienced pvper or in the unlikely scenario where they used a seed, have decent gear and experience and are waiting for you with most their estus intact.
Additionally, now there's little to no punishment for using summons since you're not more likely to get extra enemies anymore at all, so why not summon three people when you're embered? Casual souls is a go!
I'm fine with invaders having it unfair. The more phantoms there are the bigger of a shitter the host is. Seeds can very easily be used to your advantage. Blues are not safe form enemies this time.
BUT THE FUCKING ESTUS IS SO FUCKING FAST. It cannot be interrupted. There is no punishing chuggers. Sure, if they get away and have the time to heal its often your fault, but now they just have to roll an attack, do an instant chug and keep going. It all boils down to who has the most chugs, which is the host. Slow down estus to dark souls 1 speed and its all good. Taking damage while going through the game is too forgiving now as well.
>>335902527
They still have twice your estus and more health than you you literal retard
>>335902418
>Made a stupid joke character with a stupid joke name
>Actually manage to get a decent PvP build going
>Want to try being an "NPC" invader
>Remember that I'm called "Benis"
I mean it's good that you can change your appearance at least but god I want to change my name so badly, I've come too far to start over. I would use CE but the detection seems to be fairly decent this time and I don't want to get banned.
>>335902194
The game literally doesn't work if all of them rush you down at once. There are no openings if three other players all apply pressure at the same time, the games just aren't built for this kind of group combat. If there are multiple players on each side then it works, but I almost never get summoned alongside another red and even then the friendly fire makes it a shitty prospect to fight with them. Also 90% of the time they're enough of the way through the level that you have nowhere to run to (Like I should fucking have to use the enemies in order to even the odds?) Also I've done a shitload of invading and the majority of hosts do have the perfect setup to fuck invaders up. Most of these people are guide readers using the most overpowered weapons in the game.
>inb4 use an UGS or wide arc swinging weapon
I shouldn't have to limit my build possibilities to stand a chance in the invasion, that's the definition of imbalance and it makes invading totally fucking boring. This game already has problems with build variety and that only makes it worse.
>Jesus, what do people like you want? A scenario where you'll always have at least a fair fight?
Yes, that would be ideal.
>>335902364
Then just keep trying, it's not like you're not making other players lives harder except for the occasional trollsquad that does the same to you. Hell, you could just kill some enemies near you and just wait and waste their time, whatever passes for fun for you invadercucks. It's not like they can have their fun with the invasion slot full, or when having to fight all the carefully seeded enemies.
>>335902629
Go play the arena in DaS then, bitch.
>>335902673
I usually just pop a young white branch and go afk for a bit.
>mfw running through anor Londo with dried finger active
>>335902759
I've never had so much fun. I made a separate character so I can just do that.
>>335902615
You still risk diddly-dick, almost always have a shitload of enemies on your side in addition to better gear and more experience you literal retard. You can still win even if disadvantaged numerically, you know? Why invade if you can't fucking deal with someone having the homefield advantage? Is it just because you refuse to make proper use of all the advantages you do get but purposefully ignore for some reason? It's not like the host is unkillable and can one-shot you or anything, you have a fighting chance, they just have an advantage in straight on uninterrupted combat most of the time, and even then not always if you're sufficiently skilled and geared.
Honestly, if you want to pvp with an advantage most of the time just pop a dried finger and wait at the bonfire or something, or use red signs.
>>335902717
I never had this issue in DaS because most hosts would summon at most one friend and would usually wait to summon until getting to the fog door (I'm assuming they were human because they intended to summon at least.) The way people play these games now is they'll show up to an area and immediately summon two phantoms the second they find a bonfire.
>>335902889
They also always hug the bonfire where no enemies are, and can just summon forever. The host also risks diddly-dick and has a huge advantage over you no matter what.
>>335902198
You just have to be careful and read each other well. I team up with fellow invaders and most of the time you just have to be there and block off the host/buttbuddy's escape routes.
>>335902985
Go to the fight Club at anor Londo then
>>335902889
The host risks nothing in the engagement either. Embers are plentiful and now invaders have to recover their souls where they died. Invaders can't have gear advantage anymore because of weapon level matchmaking and the combat encourages rollspam, healspam and passive play and makes them extremely difficult to punish even for a skilled player (The core mechanics have been made faster and more forgiving for the fast paced nature of PvE bosses, but this means that unskilled players can also just spam roll against invaders while waiting for an opportunity to summon or for a blue phantom.)
I don't want an advantage, I just want the game to stop prioritising hosts who have summoned and probably don't want to do pvp. It's fucking braindead and inexcusable that the current matchmaking system prioritises two groups of players who don't want to play with each other
>>335902629
>There are no openings if three other players all apply pressure at the same time.
So use the environment and enemies to your advantage, then. You know from the outset that you can't beat three players in simultaneous combat, so play it smart.
>90% of the time they're enough of the way through the level that you have nowhere to run to.
You can still retreat back through the level and use the environment to hide or force them into narrow quarters where they can't circlegank you, and shoot stuff after them if they try to progress.
>Like I should fucking have to use the enemies in order to even the odds?
Yes, that's the entire reason why they don't attack you except if the player uses a hidden and not easily farmable item. Remember that you're going into unfamiliar territory, willingly and knowing that you'll encounter armed resistance, with the sole purpose of killing your target for a reward and low risk. So yeah, you should use your brains and skills to try to pull out a win instead of being able to rely on sheer combat prowess, that's the point of being an invader.
>Yes, that would be ideal.
Then play as a host and use dried fingers. You'll have more estus and they'll have slightly more levels and slightly better gear in the worst case scenario. As an invader you just have to accept that you aren't the favored side.
You make fair points, but I still disagree that invaders are disadvantaged so much that it becomes really unfair for them. If both parties do everything they can you'll lose more often than you'll win, yes, but scenarios like that are fairly rare and it's intended for you to more often than not encounter scenario's that you can win if you play your cards right, though with difficulty.
>taking PvP seriously
Just have fun, all of you. Yeah sometimes you'll invade a gank squad but so what, just fuck with them as much as possible (obscuring ring, run away and shoot arrows etc). Hosts crying about invaders and invaders crying about hosts won't change anything, FROM aren't going to re-design their entire PvP mechanics because a few people complained.
tl;dr who cares about whoever has the advantage, just fight however you want.
>>335903270
I'll give you that the hosts running until they can summon thing is pretty shitty, it's not fun to try and often fail to hit them with a ranged weapon to chip away at their huge estus supply and hope they don't gank you whenever their summons go through. I still maintain that you can run back into the pve enemies at that point though, and that the host will eventually run out of estus and fuck up in running away so you can kill him. Still not fun and should be changed somehow, but it isn't unfair for the invader either, it's just the mechanics enabling one player to play in an unfun way that also makes the experience for another player less fun that's shitty.
>>335903639
Honestly this is the core of what I've been trying to argue the whole thread. The entire thing that makes invading fun is that you don't know if you'll be advantaged or disadvantaged, it's what allows for variety and fun situations. There'd be a problem if there was very regularly a difference so huge that chances for victory for one party become extremely slim, but I'm not seeing a disrepancy on that scale.
>>335903639
>sometimes you'll invade a gank squad
the problem is that you'll ALWAYS invade a gank squad
Im actually fine with ganksqauds being much harder in this game because of how much more staisfying it is to win against them.
Yesterday I invaded in cahedral near the rosaria bonfire and spawned in the rafters and saw the host and two white phantoms killing ghe giants below me. I make my way all the way down at 3/4 health because of fall damage and sneak up on them in the mud with obscuring ring and start to harass them with dagger quickstep. I cause them to drink estus but them a blue comes and I back off. I lead his merry band through the level, ocasionally turning back for some damage, and finally kill the blue and a white when they get cut off from the rest. I kead the other two to that leach monster in the pit where I kill the other white as the host kills the leach. Then me and the host fight, me at 1 estus him at many, until I get himmlow for the third time and he runs away, only for me to snipe him from like 25 feet with a single throwing dagger. I literally quit the game to jack of my cock was so turgid.
>>335904005
Sorry for the spelling, typimg on a tablet with no spell check
>>335896750
So you think it'd be fair if people had the ability to invade people when they don't have any ability to predict that invasion, and they've lost estus while they were going through the environment.
No, that's only fair that you get a handicap.
>>335903948
1 host and 1 phantom isn't a gank squad. I can't speak for you or anyone else but I find that's what I end up invading the most, and 2v1s are pretty easy with the right tactics. Yeah sometimes you'll invade 3 or 4 phantoms but even then it's not impossible to win. There are also times where you invade solo hosts, so no, you don't ALWAYS invade a gank squad.
>>335903398
Using the environment is fine but having multiple summons trivializes the environment. The host and their friends can wipe almost anything you put in between you and them even if you fight alongside it. This makes using enemies a shitty option and they'll almost always be dead in seconds, especially the case if the host has found the bonfire that's nearest the boss as by that point only trash mobs will be in their way. I've tried playing dirty and throwing alluring skulls or cutting the bridge in the catacombs and people just turtle unless you hide there with a branch for 20 minutes for them to come to your trap. Even then chances are it'll be gone in seconds. That's in one of the areas that in a past game would be ripe for invasions - lots of traps, lots of enemies, lots of places to hide. When I invade I get a host hiding at the bonfire with his friends waiting for me to get past the boulder, either that or people who are doing the bridge run. Even if I get to the end of the bridge no retard is actually going to cross it, they'll take the safe optional path and then I'm fucking dead because it's a 3v1 in close quarters.
I want to invade other people's games to make them more interesting and because invaders are a part of the game that people should have to deal with. The game should be designed in a way so invaders are threatening because they are the risk that goes along with the reward of being able to summon help. The way it is right now invaders are all but useless unties unless the host doesn't summon phantoms and isn't in the WoB which I've seen maybe twice in 80 hours of play. The reason why invading was invented in this series is as a counterpoint to summoning and this game neutralises them as a threat for the way that most people play the game. They don't suit their purpose anymore, and that means the game is broken.
>>335897628
>>335897679
>>335901429
What the fuck is wrong with you people? Posts like this really make me believe in neo-/v/.
Yes, Dark Souls is more focused on PvE than PvP aspect.
Yes, I also consider invaders to be akin to environmental hazard.
But you are wrong assuming that the invaders should have it the hardest, because they're "disrupting" someone's fun.
The host is already having it easy, because he's being carried by his phantom buddies. If you think that the invaders aren't supposed to be entitled to an easy time with the game, then why the hell do you think the host should? What kind of doublethink is this?
Invaders, and especially twinks, are supposed to be the ever-present threat, the sword of Damocles looming over their heads. Because summoning completely trivializes the PvE aspect of the game, and shouldn't come free.
>>335904148
The environment consists of much more than enemies alone, and enemies are supposed to be thrash mobs and distraction you can use multiple times too since there are a lot of them, but I get your point. It's more of a problem that it's too easy to play it safe than that it is one that they have a massive advantage - they can just go get that advantage if they're willing to go slow and use cheap ultra-defensive and safe tactics, which are too easy to use.
Well, valid complaints aside, I'm still having a lot more fun in this game's pvp than in any of the previous ones, since those boiled down to the host getting 1v1 destroyed or ten minutes of circling and poking with dex weapons, or if one party uses a slow weapon two minutes of that person getting backstabbed and parried. Dark Souls 2 was much the same, but with more stunlocking since poise did absolutely nothing and invaders were still often far stronger than the host.
Yeah, it's not perfect the way it is, and it is frustrating and unfun for invaders at times, and it does negate that original purpose of invasions in the first place, though not entirely. I still want DS1 pvp with weapon upgrade matchmaking or something similar to fix twinks, but DS3 has done a better job than the first games so far imho.
Then again Fromsoft has done things like kill the ring of life protection by making it extremely expensive or adding the agape ring to enable twinks all over again in the past, so who knows, it might completely go to shit for ds3 in the future too.
>>335904945
DS1 pvp with some tweaking like limiting weapon upgrade advantage and balancing healing (giving invaders estus, possibly equal to the host since the host can heal himself and all phantoms?) would be unquestionably the best pvp system I think. I'd still rather play that game's pvp than ds3 in its current state, in spite of the threat of twinks and hackers, because interesting fights are so much more frequent. It would probably still be ruined by the new audience though which I suspect is a much bigger problem than any balancing issues - people just don't play the game like they used to, now running the entire level with help is extremely common, it seems to be the way most people play.
It just feels like there's more they could do instead of encouraging this shift in the role invading has, which I think is to the detriment of the multiplayer longevity of this game and the game in general. Dueling is fun and all but to have it be the only way of getting a remotely interesting or varied experience is pretty disappointing, and my invading experience has been very consistently bad. I don't like being a watchdog or Aldrich guy cause I'm just on the other side of a gank at that point.
I hope they figure out some way to appease both sides of this debate (as well as do some serious balancing changes) in coming patches, or I might just lose interest altogether.
