>that feel when Nintendo will never make the most powerful console of the generation ever again
Feels really bad man
It's still the providing the only console worth buying if you already own a PC. XBone and PS4 are sharing way too many games with the PC.
>most powerful
>20FPS
>not even 1/3rd of the library of its competitor at the time
>cartridges
>>335787118
At least its textures didn't give you motion sickness
>>335787118
20 FPS is more than enough
>>335787118
>shovelware machine with 10 fps games and loading screens that take a year to finish because of shitty CDs
you sure showed them
>>335787029
I'll just wait for CEMU.
Nintendo shit is always the first to be emulatable
>>335787272
The wii didn't come out until years later though
>>335787267
I feel bad for the kids who got PS instead of N64, their taste in video games is forever twisted and pleb.
>>335787267
> 20fps is more than enough
> vf ran 60fps on saturn
>>335787267
>Not crouch stabbing
>>335786919
Power is not everything. Both the NES and PS1 weren't the most powerful console of their gen but they were loved and successfull.
>>335787373
>vf ran 60fps on saturn
But it looked primitive and didn't even have 3D backgrounds like the arcade version. Instead, it had a 2D backdrop because the Saturn couldn't handle 3D beyond drawing the characters.
Meanwhile...on N64...
>>335786919
PS1 and N64 simply did things differently. Real losers of the 5th generation was that 3DO console no one remembers and Atari Jaguar. Sega Saturn sadly had bad luck and was playing the same game as N64, but couldn't bank on brand power.
>>335786919
Maybe the NX will be more powerful than the ps4/xbone, since it's coming out later than the rest??
>>335787574
Holy shit, I had a 3DO. I barely remember playing Gex and a spaceship game. They were both awful.
>>335787493
wow! 15 fps! fucking amazing!
>>335787364
this
psbabbies actually think games like spyro are quality platformers
>>335787350
No, it came out in 1976
>>335787574
saturn really was unlucky because a) it didn't really have that many games to really justify purchase and b) what little great games it had just lead me to "why is this stuck on saturn?" mindset. panzer dragoon games, dragon force, guardian heroes, dark savior, shining force 3, etc. it also had a LOT of great games that never made it out of japan.
>>335787697
You've got to be delusional if you think that is 15fps.
Let me guess, this is also 15 FPS. Haha.
>>335786919
>Implying
>>335787715
Except PS1 also got, Final Fantasy VII-IX, Tactics, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, Dragon Quest VII, and other games I'm probably forgetting.
>>335787969
Nice emulations brother.
But I prefer real console captures
>>335788034
In RPGs PS1 truly beats the N64
...what good RPGs did the N64 have?
>>335787872
>dragon force
>gets released for ps2 later on
>japan-only
fuck it. at least dragon force 2 got fan translated.
>>335788127
Quest 64
>>335787267
>watch this webm
>"oh shit, it has sound??"
>wait a second
>it's just my imagination
>also for some reason the gerudo made that lizalfos noise
I do kinda wish I had a n64 as a kid too
n64 games became ridiculously expensive while ps1 games usually didn't
>you wil never experience conker's bfd or the first paper mario because the emulation sucks
>>335788189
He said "good"
>>335787364
>his parents were to poor to get him both
>he's forever cursed with carrying the burden of never playing some of the goat games on ps1
>has to resort to mock others for it
Truly a pitiful existence
>>335787969
Crash would probably look like trash if its levels weren't literally corridors with corners and camera angles used to disguise things popping in.
>>335788327
You wish you got raped in the ass by Nintendo pricing?
That's a weird preference.
>>335788442
I'm talking about buying the games now
god I hate these jewish resellers
Could anyone explain in simple terms why having a processor that can handle operations with more bits is important, and if it is important why the race for more bits stopped? There was a time when generations were practically defined by it: 8 bits, 16 bits, 32/64 bits... how is it we don't have 512 bit consoles by now, if it is so important?
>>335788425
>Le corridors meme
It was the only proper 3D platformer that wasn't a shitty forced "open world'' collectathon.
>>335787118
>>335788425
Well that's literally how the Crash Bandicoot engine works. It's tuned frame by frame to ensure the corridors twist juuuuust in the right place so you can't see too far ahead.
It's cheating, but clever cheating.
>>335788425
Good thing crash played to its strengths instead of trying to do shit it couldn't then, huh?
>>335788515
>Could anyone explain in simple terms why having a processor that can handle operations with more bits is important, and if it is important why the race for more bits stopped?
it was irrelevant from the moment the N64 had a 64 bit processor that ran in 32 bit most of the time
64 bit is only useful if you have shitloads of RAM
>>335788652
Why was it useful to double the amount of bits up to that point and why isn't it useful now?
PSX has noz buffer
>>335788496
I think it was for the best Anon, if you parents had bought you a N64, chances are YOU would end up as one of those morons who buy old N64 cartridges for hundreds of dollars.
That's a fate worth avoiding.
>>335788425
Didn't crash have that weird fucked up thing where it basically ran overclocked and the devs admitted it would fuck up the console but they didn't give a shit because it would be such a slow process nobody would notice it was fucking up their console?
>>335788730
moar dakka, as the marketing orks would say
Why are n64 babbies still mad about the ps1 success?
>>335788838
The disc spun a bit faster than a normal ps1 game to reduce loading times. Everything else was clever programming techniques and pushing the hardware to its limits.
Dunno about 2 and Warped though.
>>335788730
Diminishing returns
8 bit is limited to around 640 KB of RAM
16 bit is limited to around 16 MB of RAM
32 bit is limited to around 3.5 GB of RAM
64 bit is limited to around 8000000000 GB of RAM
>>335788189
lol
Daily reminder that consoles have always been shit.
>>335787715
Playstation had Valkyrie Profile, your arguments are all invalid.
>>335787904
Actually yeah it is
>>335788991
>The disc spun a bit faster than a normal ps1 game to reduce loading times.
No it didn't. What it did was the CD seek (the laser carriage mechanism) was hit extra hard.
The thing about Crash was that it didn't actually push the hardware to the limit. It tried to take away as much processing OFF the PS1 as possible. For example, the "corridor" environmental graphics that surround Crash are geometry with precalculated 3D visibility.
That's something you can't do in any game that gives the player direct camera control. In some ways, it's a good analogy to describe Crash as being like a "real time 3D rendered FMV game".
>>335789083
Jesus, I forgot how Half-life looked like shit. Daily reminder than art style is more important than raw graphics.
>>335786919
Nintendo has never had the most powerful console of a generation. It's always been just memes and some people fell for it.
>>335789083
Honestly, I only had Little Big Adventure 2 on my PC, and I was fucking jealous of the other kids who had Tekken and Final Fantasy on their Playstation.
We were not the master race back then. Imagine PC without steam, PC without internet, PC without much of what pmakes PC a PC today.
>>335789004
>Doubling something yields exponential growth
That is the opposite of diminishing returns.
Also the N64 had 4mb of RAM so that wasn't a priority when using a 64 bit processor.
>>335789307
I meant diminishing returns in terms of benefit, not in gain.
>that feel when graphics dont add anything to games anymore
>that feel when graphics only inflate development time and budgets and lead to companies making less games
>that feel when those games need to be made for the masses now because any flop could mean that the company tanks
Only shit companies like EA and Activision benefit from this arms race, because it kills the competition.
Any graphical improvement after the PS2 was absolutely pointless and only made games worse.
This applies to Nintendo too, their game output is much smaller than it used to be, even though they have more teams than ever.
>>335789239
You are kind of right, but aesthetics are ultimately subjective and you always have more freedom to implement whatever aesthetics you want if you have more raw power. Therefore, PC > consoles even back then.
>>335789303
I don't have to imagine it, I was playing Quake and Caesar and Starcraft while they were enjoying their weeaboo fantasy #45.
>>335788595
Are you implying Mario 64 couldn't do what it did? Because I'm pretty sure thats wrong.
>>335789083
Is this supposed to be Half-Life in 1024x768 or 1280x1024?
Cause you know that Voodoo 2 (best card in the year of Half-Life's release) couldn't even achieve 30fps 800x600 in Unreal.
The N64 was a fucking trash console. Even the gamecube was better.
It all started with the controller, then trash collectathons which were pure cancer
>>335789380
Pretty much. Late PS2 games look really fucking good if you consider PS2 was inferior to XBox hardware-wise. If anything, showing them in higher render and display resolution only proves that.
>>335789157
Valkyrie Profile wasn't that good, friend.
Why wouldn't you list any of the other hundred good JRPGs like Xenogears, Lunar 2, or Wild Arms?
>>335788589
Indeed but comparing Crash and Mario64 is completely asinine considering they're two very different games. If Crash worked like Mario64 then it would indeed look a lot worse.
>>335789528
if you crossfired two voodoo 2 you could easily get 60fps at 1920x1080 resolution
I know what I'm talking about, my dad was a plumber at Nintendo
>>335786919
>the feel when I played rayman 2 on a Pc as a child
>the feel when back then the PC still made games look better
>>335789303
Except PC gaming was way better than Consoles back then
>Online
>Modding in it's prime
>Almost the entire RTS, FPS, MMO, point & click, WRPG genre's
Also FF7/8 were on PC & Tekken was meant to be played in Arcades
>>335789615
You are not my friend, we will never be friends.
>>335788537
It was a collectathon where every level was a linear corridor and not an open world with branching paths and secrets.
>>335789237
>it's a good analogy to describe Crash as being like a "real time 3D rendered FMV game".
Wow I've never seen someone that butthurt about a game before to call it that way, thanks for the laugh anon.
>>335787574
That's really not why Saturn was unlucky. Sega designed the 32x to expand the 2d generation and programmers were already familiar with the chipsets. The fact that the Saturn was designed as a 2d console is what killed it. Meanwhile, psx was developed to use Namco arcade hardware and built with 3d in mind. The Saturn has tons of quality titles but if you can't speak japenese then forget about it
>>335789380
graphics no longer inflate time and budgets for games. There are extremely accessible good looking, completely free engines that developers use.
What causes this inflation of budgets is insane marketing and creative bankruptcy in an "industry" now dominated completely by the bottom line.
Programming only gets easier over time, so programming is not the cause of the inflation
>>335789759
What fucking online?
We didn't even have internet. The definition of Online back then was to go to the school library to download winamp skins and wall papers as super slow speeds and transferring them to super slow floppy discs, and cross your fingers and hope your content lives to make it to your home PC without the floppy disc corrupting itself and killing the files.
that was the life of a "master race" back then.
>>335789720
>if you crossfired two voodoo 2 you could easily get 60fps at 1920x1080 resolution
You are a funny one anon.
>adjusting for inflation, a brand new N64 game ran in the neighborhood of 90 literal 2016 dollarydoos
kek games cost so much fucking money back then. I remember my mom taking me to Sears to buy a new copy of DKC right around the time it released. Shit was like $70 even then. I guess at least games actually included all content, but even longer ones were only fifteen or twenty hours.
>>335789790
No it was literally a 2D platformer with the third dimension added.
If you call it a corridor simulator then you don't like 2D platformers, it's quite simple.
>>335789889
>I don't know what I'm talking about
>I was five years old, and what's the 90s?
>I like to pretend to sound knowledgeable
Literally choose all three.
>>335787118
I mean, it was going up against sony's machine that ignored the last 20 years of computer rendering.
>>335789845
It's technically accurate though. While an FMV game pre-computes entire framebuffers, Crash Bandicoot pre-computes 3D visibility data, and just hands it over to the PS1 GPU ready to render. And because of this you can't change the camera angle, much like you can't in an FMV game.
>>335789889
this dude didn't have a phone line
>>335789884
Engines dont create assets for free.
You still have to make highest quality textures, hire overpriced faggots for mocap which is overpriced by itself, get the overpriced voice actors and hire some studios for the CGI and other faggotry.
Programming has always been cheap. Its everything else thats too expensive.
>>335790020
>sony's machine that ignored the last 20 years of computer rendering.
This
>>335790038
An opinion is not technically accurate you big faggot.
Learn the difference between FMV and a proper 3D game before shitposting like a fucking ignorant faggot.
>>335790126
>>335789884
I doubt licensing an engine was ever the costliest aspect of game development. It's doing something with that engine that takes time, and therefore money.
You can't seriously think all the money is just going to more and more marketing.
>>335787256
>tfw used to get massive headaches whenever I played PS1
>real bad in games like Twisted Metal and that knockoff Star Wars game
>never had it happen with any other console or handheld before or sense
>see this post and understand why
>>335789720
What a shame no one thought of that back then. If only...
>>335790081
Every house had a phone, I just wasn't stupid enough to be ripped off paying tons of money each month for slow internet just so I could download free wallpapers to my PC when I could do it as school instead.
>>335788127
Paper Mario was pretty casual but Id consider it one of the best of that era. Didnt 65 get a few Tactics Ogre games as well?
>>335786919
Blast processing OP.
>>335790191
>being this ass pained
>>335789572
>game introduces barrier mechanic
>barrier enemies appear frequently after that point
>only one weapon in the game can break barriers
>you need to have the character who uses that weapon in your party to win those fights
>you need to equip that character with that weapon to win those fights
>AI can't be trusted to use that weapon when necessary, so you need to control that character to win those fights
>>335788537
>Forced Open World Collectathon
>Implying that was even a fucking thing yet
Spotted the underage.
>>335790107
Most assets are easy to make. the piece that has only gotten more expensive and hard to make is models mostly. mocap is expensive yes.
>>335790201
Pretty much marketing and just general incompetence. It is harder and harder to make a good game when you just throw money (people) at it.
It is hard to keep the direction of the game the larger a team is, so it becomes a cycle. Throw tons of money, hire lots of people, the project loses focus, bring on more people to fix it, they make the problem worse.
And marketing budgets are ridiculous with modern AAA games
>>335790191
Conker actually has much more impressive texturing than any PS1 game
>>335790453
why did no other games look this good?
>>335790412
It was a thing you dumb fuck.
What is M64, Banjoo and Spyro?
>>335790603
It certainly was not. And those games were the first of their kind of that scale. How can you be a tired out genre if youre the pioneers? Dumb fucking underage bitch.
>>335790431
It's mainly because the entire industry is unstable as fuck. Getting hired for a project and then subsequently let go once it's done is the norm in this industry, and everyone accepts that. If only developers didn't think they were such primadona artists and, I know Americans think this is a filthy word, unionize or something for security. Big publishers are especially guilty of this shit and how they treat their employees. ALL of this reflects on projects they work on, how often ideas get challenged when you can get fired over it, etc.
>>335790530
It was released at the end of the n64 lifespan, they knew what can they do with the hardware
>>335790530
It was really difficult to use N64's texture unit properly due to some extremely strict requirements. But if you could get it going it could sing.
Also many developers probably didn't have a lot of cartridge space, so there wasn't really much of an incentive to focus on good textures.
>>335790719
Tired? You have the reading comprehension of a child to be quite honest.
kys.
>>335790180
t. mad sonypony
there's literally nothing wrong with his description
>>335791015
>his
Now you're pretending to be another person, just how low can you get?
>all these people arguing about graphics
>no talking about the games at all
I didn't know people bought consoles just to jerk off to the graphics
>>335791067
oh yeah, i'm totally the same guy anon. sure thing.
>>335791159
>No new unique posters
>Suddenly your post
>Not the same person being butthurt
Nice try fag
>>335791270
How about you stop flinging shit at random?
Also my description of how Crash Bandicoot worked was accurate and you are more than welcome to go to the Andy and Gavin blog to see for yourself. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it wrong.
>>335786919
Nintendo won't make consoles at all soon.
>>335788127
Ogre Battle 64 and Hybrid Heaven.
>>335791541
What are you trying to show with that screencap?
Are you mentally retarded?
>>335791541
Your description is completely retarded.
>Calling Crash Bandicoot an FMV game just because you don't like it.
Just kill yourself.
>>335787493
>>335787904
Didn't they have to lower the resolution in order to get it to run at a playable framerate?
>>335791789
(You)
>>335791895
Who said I don't like it. I just said that the environments of the game are pre-computed like FMV games, just not to the same extent.
~Pre-computed visibility data~
FMV Game: Yes
Crash Bandicoot: Yes
~Pre-computed rasterization~
FMV Game: Yes
Crash Bandicoot: No
Hopefully now even somebody with a preschool level understanding can get it now
>>335792110
All games pre-compute stuff, following your logic all games are FMV.
Fuck off with your retardation.
>>335791915
Conker runs at 240p like most games of that generation, so no they didn't have to lower the resolution.
>>335792110
>It pre-computes env, therefore it's an FMV game
>>335792184
>All games pre-compute stuff, following your logic all games are FMV.
No, you absolutely fucking moron. If a game lets the player have control over the camera then you can't pre-compute visibility. Obviously. And so then it is absolutely nothing like an FMV game.
>>335792286
>If a game lets the player have control over the camera then you can't pre-compute visibility.
Now I see that you're an uneducated piece of shit that has never coded in his entire pathetic life, thanks for wasting my fucking time.
I can't believe I fell for you shitty bait.
>The idea was that the camera would follow along next to, behind, or in front of the character, generally looking at him, moving on a “track” through the world. Dave and I experimented with pre-calculating the visibility and sort (the Playstation had no z-buffer, and hence no easy way to sort polygons) ahead of time on the SGI workstations the artists used. Although painful and expensive, this worked really well. As long as you could never SEE more than a set number of polygons (800 for Crash 1, 1300 for Crash 2 or 3) from any given position we could have perfect occlusion and sort, with no runtime cost. We conceived of using trees, cliffs, walls, and twists and turns in the environment to hide a lot of the landscape from view – but it would be there, just around the corner.
http://all-things-andy-gavin.com/2011/02/04/making-crash-bandicoot-part-3/
>>335786919
>nintendo
fuck off kiddo
>>335792445
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_motion_video
>A full motion video (FMV) is a video game narration technique that relies upon pre-recorded video files (rather than sprites, vectors, or 3D models) to display action in the game.
>>335792445
How is any of this comparable to FMV?
>>335790530
I'm pretty sure Conker had a 64mb cartridge, which is like 4 times or more the size of the regular cartridge-
>>335792638
Because it requires mass amounts of pre-computed data, much like those FMV cutscenes in FF7 that could never run in real-time on the console.
The only difference between Crash Bandicoot and an FMV game is that Crash doesn't pre-compute the very last step: the rasterization stage. In an FMV game you would pre-rasterize your data and then convert it into a video format. Crash doesn't do that. Instead, the pre-computed data is sent straight to the PS1's GPU and it is rasterized at that point. This is very useful because it saves the PS1's CPU from actually having to do any 3D work.
Now hopefully you guys haven't been thinking that an FMV game is synonymous with "live human actors" right? You're not that stupid of course, as you know some FMV games worked with workstation generated 3D visuals, yes?
>>335792905
Read
>>335792547
And educate yourself.
>>335792905
>Now hopefully you guys haven't been thinking that an FMV game is synonymous with "live human actors" right?
No, we are just wondering what the fuck pre-rendered videos have to do with pre-calculated occlusion culling
>>335792905
Do you even know what FMV means?
>>335792905
FMV means playing a video file instead of drawing actual polygons'n'shit you dummy.
>>335793274
Because to make those pre-rendered videos you would also do pre-calculated occlusion culling unless you want to wait years on your render farm to finish its work.
>>335790530
I like the paper mario 64 textures.
>>335793352
So you're saying that Crash Bandicoot is actually an interactive pre-rendered cutscene.
Man they were so advanced back in the day :^)
>>335793352
Maybe, but occlusion culling is not what defines pre-rendered video clips
>>335790453
That's World of Warcraft-tier textures.
Nice.
>>335793685
So shit?
>>335793717
For WoW, yeah.
>>335793557
I suppose they could have also developed Crash Bandicoot as a game where your character is super imposed on top of video, and when you walk forward the video goes forward and when you walk backwards the video rewinds. But something like that would probably be too much for the PS1's CD-ROM.
Hence why they made the data more compact and only sent 3D data from CD-ROM, not entire swabs of video. It was also a good choice, because they avoid video artifacts.
Plus the PS1's GPU is better than its CPU. May as well make good use of the GPU while keeping load on its CPU minimal.
>>335788752
3. Naughty Dog created the first software z-buffer for the PlayStation. And they say that you've programmed it.
Was it a goal to code something like that or was it one of your own ideas ? And what exactly is it ?
It actually isn't a Z-Buffer at all. It is a software triangle subdivision which is the same as the near view frustum clipping that is used on all game engines. Mine was set up for an arbitrary plane so we could use it to subdivide Crash and other objects when they were in the water. It would check every triangle to see if it was above, below, or straddling the plane and subdivide the triangle when neccessary. It sorted the triangles above the water to draw later and the ones below the water to draw earlier. I can't remember who came up with the idea for the subdivision, but I improved it with each game through Crash Team Racing. I definitely pushed to have the arbitrary plane one done for the jet ski in crash 3.
>>335786919
when they did, it flopped, so why should they try again?
>>335793865
|I suppose they could have also developed Crash Bandicoot as a game where your character is super imposed on top of video, and when you walk forward the video goes forward and when you walk backwards the video rewinds.
>>335793614
>Maybe, but occlusion culling is not what defines pre-rendered video clips
No, but pre-computing in general certainly does.
Absolutely no video game involves pre-computed occlusion culling in its developer except for:
1) FMV games
2) Crash Bandicoot
Typical 3D games do not pre-compute data (occlusion included) because it is impractical and impossible if the player has full camera control.
>>335793998
Why are you trying so hard to compare a videogame to a pre-rendered cutscene?
Just why? Are you autistic?
>>335789380
Imagine if, instead of the new battlefield game looking stupidly realistic, they actually made it good like the old game but with just more smoothed out controls and better graphics
God fucking dammit
Why
>>335794092
As stated waaaaaaay earlier on, it's just the technical facts. Just because you don't understand it, or it doesn't feel comfortable to you, doesn't change how it works.
Crash's developers are actually very proud of their achievement, and rightly so. The perfect marriage of pre-computing (à la FMV) and real time rendering. But my point all along is that you can't compare it to any 3D game that gives the player full camera control.
>>335793998
well everything in a pre-rendered cutscene is obviously pre-computed
by your logic every game that has textures or assets that aren't procedurally generated on the fly is a FMV game
>>335794181
I mean fuck, good graphics COULD mean better gameplay, if it was something like adding physics effects and having shit tons more enemies and bigger maps, but they choose to do it the shallow way, because no one cares to wait and see what substance a game has, everyone just wants to buy the shit they got hyped for immediately and pretend they didnt just throw their money away
>>335794327
>it's just the technical facts.
Your technical "facts" say that anything pre-calculated is essensially the same as FMV.
Stop being retarded and trying to shove your shitty meme here.
>>335794352
>by your logic every game that has textures or assets that aren't procedurally generated on the fly is a FMV game
That's a strawman because you could take this to ridiculous extents, such as claiming that I say that any game that doesn't have procedural generated code is an FMV game.
Some pre-computed elements are universal to almost all 3D games; meshes are a good example.
But others, such as pre-computed occlusion (and visibility calculations in general) are ONLY ever usually used in FMV games.
>>335794327
>you can't compare it to any 3D game that gives the player full camera control.
https://www.unknowncheats.me/wiki/Quake_Engine
>Quake was the first true-3D game to use a special map design system that preprocessed and pre-rendered the 3D environment, so as to reduce the processing required when playing the game on the 50-75 MHz CPUs of the time
QUAKE CONFIRMED FMV GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>335794664
That's just one set of visibility data being pre-computed to aid the BSP tree (the CPU still has to determine which BSP branches are visible after all).
It doesn't go the full hog like Crash Bandicoot where the CPU barely has to do anything related to visibly.
>QUAKE CONFIRMED FMV GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lmao nice strawman, check this thread I never once said Crash was an FMV game
i only ever said it had some things in common
>>335794914
>I never once said Crash was an FMV game
>>335789237
>>335790038
>>335792905
You really like to use it as comparison even though they have nothing to do with each other.
>>335787715
>games like spyro
>shitting on spyro
Kill yourself, fampai
>>335793998
>>335794327
I know this shit and I can tell you that there is no correlation between precalculated occlusion culling and fmvs. You are either seriously retarded, drunk, or trolling.
>>335795215
>>335795215
>You really like to use it as comparison even though they have nothing to do with each other.
Crash Bandicoot is incapable of moving the camera unless along a predefined rail. It's more of a philosophical similarity than a technical one. It's functionally no different to Parasite Eve II, which was an FMV game with 3D models on top.
>>335795462
>It's more of a philosophical similarity than a technical one
That's not what you said earlier
>>335790038
>>335794327
>>335795712
>That's not what you said earlier
You're talking to a completely different person, anon.
>>335795395
>I can tell you that there is no correlation between precalculated occlusion culling and fmv
Except that pre-calculated occlusion culling have never been used in the development of videos games unless they were FMV or Crash Bandicoot.
The example of Quake is just a culling impossible visibility out of the BSP tree so the CPU doesn't waste time on branches that can't ever happen.
While Crash's pre-computed occlusion culling system literally tells the CPU straight out what is and isn't visible at any given frame. That level of pre-computation is only seen in FMV games. Except Crash doesn't pre-rasterize (so it's not an actual FMV game). Not sure how many times I have to say this.
>>335788320
I know what you mean, when i read your post all i hear is autism speak.
DK64 has so much dynamic lighting, it flails it about for literally no reason. Every light source waves around to draw attention to how dynamic and awesome it is.
Meanwhile, the PS1 was lucky to have ONE dynamic light. A non-coloured dynamic light. With sloppy vertex jiggling.
>>335795813
>Not sure how many times I have to say this.
You'll have to keep on saying it until you end up believing your own lie.
Seriously you need some help anon, it's not healthy to go this far just to shit on a PS1 game.
You could've just said "The game is fucking shit and I prefer my N64 exclusive" and everyone would've believed it.
Now trying to compare it to FMV is just plain retarded and not even you believe that shit.
ITT: Nintenyearolds are still butthurt about a console war that ended almost 2 decades ago
>>335796073
Why are you so defensive of that game? It uses precomputed 3D. You can't move the camera because it's technologically impossible. It's kinda like how Id Tech 5 games have everything nailed to the floor because once you bake the texture data for the environmental geometry, it can't be dynamically changed.
Heck, the only id Tech 5 game with functional dynamic lighting is The Evil Within, which hacked it in.
>>335786919
Despite N64 having more powerful GPU than the competition, it had really high latency RAM, too fucking small texture cache, expensive carts with low memory and long manufacturing, throughput of the cart bus comparable to 3x CD (but no seeking time), released a year later than the competition with 5 games and absolutely no other for another year because devs only got devkits after the retail console got released, made everything look blurry as fuck and Nintendo didn't allow devs to use (or develop) any other RSP microcode than the Fast3D which output fewer polys/s than the original PlayStation.
What's the point of a powerful hardware if it's bundled with shitloads of bottlenecks?
>>335795813
>While Crash's pre-computed occlusion culling system literally tells the CPU straight out what is and isn't visible at any given frame.
All forms of occlusion culling are like that and all games have occlusion culling. The only difference is that this occlusion culling is all sorted in advance instead of being sorted in real time. The console is still doing real time rendering of ordinary 3D graphics just like any other game and it's no closer to FMV than anything else. You are a massive retard and I hope you seek help.
>>335786919
I don't care that this is bait.
pic is pretty inaccurate.
N64 has billinear filtering
PSX only has software rendering.
>>335788570
This. We should go back to cartridges tbqh.
>>335796358
Why? Because it's a good game and the only 3D platformer that didn't try to be anything more than a 2D platformer with the new dimension.
I don't see how not having limited control over the camera is a problem unless they have bad angles. In fact every single 2D platformer has a rigid camera system, does that make them bad games for you?
>>335796467
We definitely should not.
>>335796406
>All forms of occlusion culling are like that and all games have occlusion culling. The only difference is that this occlusion culling is all sorted in advance instead of being sorted in real time.
*slow clap*
There's a big difference between increasing the efficiency of real time visibility calculations and straight out telling the system what is or isn't video. The latter is backed up by farms of workstations that can be set to spend a week working on a problem while the former has to do be done at least 30 times per second.
>The console is still doing real time rendering of ordinary 3D graphics just like any other game
Obviously it's doing something. I said the PS1 still has to do rasterization. But the hard yards of calculation have been kindly offset by Naughty Dog's workstations.
>>335796371
>Despite N64 having more powerful GPU than the competition, it had really high latency RAM
True.
>too fucking small texture cache
Also, true, but curiously, you can bypass for 2D games, or homebrew Doom II ports, it by rendering entirely on CPU and blitting to framebuffer. Literally the only game that used this trick the way God intended was Namco Museum 64, which at no point uses the RSP/texture cache/any of that shit.
>expensive carts with low memory and long manufacturing
Nintendo being dicks was the biggest problem there. Also, Nintendo not helping 3rd parties access good quality audio/video codecs.
>Nintendo didn't allow devs to use (or develop) any other RSP microcode than the Fast3D which output fewer polys/s than the original PlayStation.
This is actually a weird myth. Nintendo discouraged extreme ucode tampering, but heaps of games, especially Japanese ones, where using fucking wacko ucodes as early as 1997. Nintendo themselves provided a number of ucodes with different goals, including 2D oriented ones. The problem was that writing improved N64 ucodes took mad skillz, so the F3DEX microcode, which was a heavily improved fast3D created by Nintendo, proved very popular.
The Turok 2/3/Project Armorines/South Park are an example of games that supposedly use a common Nintendo ucode, but were in fact non-kosher because Acclaim Austin did something to render dynamic lights from flashlights and weapons.
You can read about them here: http://n64devkit.square7.ch/pro-man/pro25/index.htm
>>335786919
You couldn't have used a worse example. Rayman 2 on the N64 ha worse music and cut levels. This thread has 160 posts so I'm sure somebody pointed that out already. Oh well.
>>335796371
>What's the point of a powerful hardware if it's bundled with shitloads of bottlenecks?
If you're good you can work around bottlenecks check out >>335787493
>>335787904
>>335788101
>>335790453
all destroy PS1 graphics
>>335796419
The bigger problem is that the PS1 port of Rayman 2 was Shadow Man-grade bad. The polygon count was gutted. Framerate was shit. Levels chopped down.
>>335796917
>This thread has 160 posts so I'm sure somebody pointed that out already
Nah it was just a M64 apologist sperg trying to convince anyone that CB is a FMV game with fancy words.
>>335797089
>M64 apologist sperg trying to convince anyone that CB is a FMV game with fancy words
I'm reading the shitstorm right now.
>>335796789
>and straight out telling the system what is or isn't video
Your bullshit is falling apart at the seams anon, just give up.
>>335796637
why not? modern flash memory can hold a lot more data than a disc and 0 load times. a modern cartridge would be superior.
It would be a smart move if Nintendo did it and then made the console backwards compatible with SNES games.
Every millennial would buy one
>>335789478
It's not. The camera was absolute horseshit.
>>335796917
>Rayman 2 on the N64 ha worse music and cut levels.
PC/N64 are the original versions, released at the same time. Everything else was a port in some way or another. The PS1 version is the one that was ripped apart. Yet anotherr N64 > PS1 port that fucked up the game and added some voice acting to try and smooth things over.
>>335797253
Mario 64 has the best designed camera in third person videogame history.
>>335796903
N64's texture cache is actually double the size of the one in the PSX, but the N64 can't load textures larger than the cache while the PSX can.
It means that the PS1 is very good at bulk loading a few large textures, while the N64 is better a large group of smaller textures. Ironically, even though cartridge size is often a limiting factor, that means that the N64 is actually better at showing a diversity of textures than the PS1.
>>335796467
>>335797235
This.
Flash costs almost nothing now. A small cartridge could store 8-64GB and even more for larger games with no loading times.
Plus
>disc rot
>>335796467
Handhelds always had game cartridges. Even Sony backpedalled to cartridge with their psvita.
Reminder.
>>335797734
>Fallout 4
>>335797734
>dat mouth animation
>>335797465
>A small cartridge could store 8-64GB and even more for larger games with no loading times.
There would be loading times, you'd be plugging in an equivalent of a flash drive, not a RAMdisk.
>Flash costs almost nothing now.
Yes, empty flash costs almost nothing, however a video game cart needs to be programmed by either using mask ROM (and making it expensive as fuck) or programming every single cart separately (making the manufacturing process extremely long). You also need hardware anti-piracy measures so people would not just reprogram the EEPROM/replace the bank to get free games and that also costs money.
>tfw learning PS1 outsold n64 by a fuckton
Is it an international thing? Here in the states, everyone I knew had an N64.
>>335797734
Damn that's actually really expressive. What game?
And now we get this shit
>>335797796
>>335797996
At the time the PS2 came out the PS1 had outsold the N64 only by 2:1. What happened was that Sony from that point put a big focus of selling the PS1 cheap to third world countries.
After that the PS1 outsold the N64 3:1. Like over 30 million machines were sold in the third world.
>>335798039
looks like one of the Turok games
>>335798039
It's Turok 3: Shadows of Oblivion
good game, but it was obviously rushed to release and very buggy
but not before developing some amazing lip sync animations
>>335798039
>Damn that's actually really expressive. What game?
Turok 3. Aka "We really liked Half Life. We should do Half Life, but with Turok stuff. Holy shit, we need to have this game finished and we're never going to hit the deadline. We shouldn't have pissed away months working on co-op we ended up scrapping. Do you think people will notice that the elevators bleed when you stab them? Hey, I just completely broke splash damage from enemy attacks so you can't dodge them anymore. Think that'll be a problem?"It has a strange charm to it. Personally, it's my favorite Turok game.
>>335797996
Same, everyone i knew in elementary school had a n64 and/or a super nintendo. I learned ps1 exclusives with emulators like bleem!, etc.
>>335797734
TECHNOLOGY
>>335798285
>but not before developing some amazing lip sync animations
Some of the cutscenes were done literally weeks before release, so the quality of animation in the game is completely fucking berserk. It flip flops between beautiful gesturing and obviously painstakingly crafted lipsync and characters hobbling around and sometimes not even moving their lips for certain lines.
Not to mention the idle animation for the pistol hitches and restarts if you walk in a straight line long enough.
So this....is the power....of the Playstation....
woah....I better not....underestimate it....
>>335798543
Why is there a Dreamcast logo?
>>335798543
fuck I loved this game, but my copy was fucked and I could never get passed a freeze bug during the fish vampire fight intro.
>>335798543
It's fun, I played it on my pentium 3.
I like PSX, because it was the console that proved how fucking retarded bitwars was.
Seriously, my friend was diehard sega fan and we went trough the regular bit thing, I was trying to prove him retarded, I didn't even own a console, I was a PC gamer.
But then he did the switch to Sony, with playstation, and didn't even believe me when I told him that it was 32-bit system, and that he was stupid with his insistence of 64 being superior.
The N64 version of 40 Winks replaced the FMVs with ingame cutscenes with full voice acting and lipsync. Which was weird and impressive since the engine the game is running on is complete and utter shit where every single object has to be loaded into memory separately, even if it's the same one as before. So a row of candles needs heaps of copies of the same fucking candle loaded into RAM.
Sadly, it was cancelled and we only have a PAL review copy that got leaked. Since Eurocom were British, the PAL copy is likely how the game was meant to be played.
>>335799074
The N64 had a shitload of racing games, but no matter how many racing games it had, it still wasn't enough for Sony Kids.
>>335796318
Nintenyearolds and Sonyponys are one and the same.
>>335797734
RIP Dreamcast.
Daily reminder a dead 18 year old Sega console has better graphics and animation than a 4 year old nintendo console.
>>335799179
>Mario 64
>that camera
The horror. I want to skin this faggot alive 20 years later.
>>335797734
Someone hand-animated these characters BLINKING. Now I suddenly find myself trying to remember which FPS games have blinking characters.
>>335790191
hahaha so buttmad
>>335799393
I was gonna put
>and Sonyggers
in my post, but this thread is overwhelmingly full if Ninty Drones.
>>335799179
And yes, we desperately need a new Sega console. Problem is they're not the same company they were in 1999. They're content with pumping out shovelware sanic games.
I've wanted a new console with a focus on fun arcade style games like the old days for years now, not watered down PC games.
>Can emulate all of these consoles and games for free
>Consolewars are still a thing
Why?
>>335790191
The Playstation wasn't even designed to handle 3D gaming. It had to hastily adapt after the N64 revolutionized the industry, which is why the games are so stiff.
>>335790126
The first time I saw Crash/MGS1 at a friend's house after having a N64 for a while I was just like, what the fuck is this shit? Looks like garbage and gives me a headache just looking at the warping geometries and ALWAYS DARK textures.
>>335790348
>>335792301
>>335799754
>>335799982
Well, he's not entirely wrong. The N64 did blur textures, just not that badly.
>>335786919
What game? Rayman looking to me.
>>335799179
Nintendo severely dropped in quality after the NGC. I don't know about sales but N64 was most certainly the most popular based solely on multiplayer functionality. Not once did I ever go to a friend's house to play/see a new PS1 game let alone to play multiplayer.
Even though I prefer the NGC over the PS2, nobody can deny that PS2 was the most popular console. It "won" by the sheer number of supported titles which a large percentage were actually great.
Yes, Nintoddlers are the worst.
>>335799982
You must be thinking of Saturn. PS1 was definitely designed for 3D. Hell, Sony actually spent money on getting consulting advice from SGI, the designers of the N64 GPU, prior to the PS1's release.
Can Nintendo even do anything to blow the competition out of the water anymore?
At this point they've lost so much reputation, people won't bother with them simply because they're Nintendo.
>>335800724
No. Hopefully they'll survive to some extent so we can keep getting good games even when the normies take over, with their cinematic experiences and trailerbaits.
>>335800458
Rayman 2
>>335787904
>1996 machine
>dynamic lighting
jesus fucking christ I haven't seen lights like those since F.E.A.R.
>>335796467
Or just SSDs?
>>335800220
I know what you're talking about but it's not like every N64 title was that poor.
I'd rather have diluted textures than be forced to look at differing Picasso scenes whenever the camera moves.
>>335788570
This is perfect.
>>335790530
The reason why N64 failed, and PS1 didn't: it was a fucking pain to develop for.
>>335800960
You ain't seen nothing yet.
The tank in Conker has headlights that dynamically light the environment.
>>335801259
Also the reason the PS3 failed.
>>335801284
>n64 literally BTFO 2016 consoles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHimShPSfdk
>>335787635
Won't the NX be more in competition with the PS5/XTwo? Unless Nintendo is planning on a two year life cycle...
>>335801259
FYI the ps2 was a god damn nightmare to develop for, didn't stop it from winning its gen.
>>335801363
80 million isn't quite a failure, those are numbers the Wii U could only dream of achieving.
>>335800960
Quoth the Raven
>Nevermore
>>335801582
Yeah but it was outshone by the 360 and Wii. Sony couldn't get away with such a difficult system, hence the PS4 is more sensible.
>>335801654
It outsold the 360 by small margin.
100 / 80 / 80 is a pretty equal split. It's nothing like how hard the PS4 is raping the other two right now, or like how the PS2 performed.
>>335787969
Did the PS1 really support resolutions that high?
>>335786919
>people actually defending and implying the N64 was the superior console
Truly this is Nintendogaf. The N64 has jackshit outside of first party shit and those weren't even that good.
>>335801582
PS3 isn't a failure in numbers of consoles sold, but it is definitely a failure when it comes to profits.
As in, it lost Sony 3 billion dollars. Part of that was down to Cell costing so much to put in each machine.
The N64 actually cost less money to manufacture than the PS1 as it didn't have a CD-ROM drive.
>>335801363
People always say this but it didn't fail.
It sold more then the Xbox 360, and games wise blows the 360 out of the water. Microsoft gave up after 2010
>>335801804
Yeah, that's my point. It was nowhere near as close to the straight up curb stomp of the PS2.
>>335801941
Games were more expensive to make though, because carts were (and are) technologically superior to CDs.
>>335801921
Nobody is talking about games. Nobody.
You'd have to be a complete and utter retard or a massive fanboy to claim the PS1 is technically superior to the N64, because it's an objective fact that it isn't.
>>335801941
It became profitable later in its life anyway.
>The N64 actually cost less money to manufacture than the PS1 as it didn't have a CD-ROM drive.
I don't think a cd-rom drive cost that much, they were pretty cheap even back then.
The bigger problem was cartridges cost more than cd-rom, and Nintendo made sure to pass on that cost to the consumer.
>>335801921
Except aside form censorship ports and multiplats were generally much better than PS and Saturn versions.
>>335802082
Your point was to lie and deceive?
>>335801921
>The N64 has jackshit outside of first party shit
The people who knows the least are always the first to make outrageous statements.
>>335793913
PS4 was an unprecedented win, the first time ever the strongest console got its deserved win.
But Nintendo is too dumb and failing hard to understand it's not about having the cheapest and shittiest hardware.
It's about having the most cost effective hardware, value for the money, bang for the buck.
When you have the highest Cost effectivity, you control the pricing of the whole market. And that's what PS4 is doing right now.
>>335802250
How? The PS3 sold the least amount of the 7th gen. How was I wrong?
PS3: 80mil
360: 84mil
Wii: 104mil
I was just making a point that the PS3 was rather difficult to develop for, which is true. Just listen to almost any developer talk about making games for it.
>It's a 'my parents bought me the better console so you're an idiot' thread
>>335802447
Wikipedia and vgcharts says PS3 sold more than 360.
>>335802382
>value for the money
Pretty sure I could get a paperweight for less than 299.99$
>>335802543
Nintendo's paperweight is failing in sales because they don't grasp this concept.
