"With this I rid the world of infestation."
"Sans lingua franca the world will be torn asunder, and then it will be free."
I've been watching the trailers again.
Where did it all go wrong?
Trading story and level structure for the corporate gimmick of open-world gameplay
Honestly overall I prefer GZ to TPP
Production was a fucking nightmare. Kojima was spending too much money on superfluous, non-essential stuff, and taking too much time on shit that he decided to drop in the final game anyway. Kagemasa (or some other CEO) decided mid-production was the best moment to attempt to restructure the company and pressure staff into quitting by making the work environment as awful as he could.
It could have been much much better, though not as good as Kojima wanted, if that shit didn't happen.
>"Sans lingua franca"
>"Sans"
Holy fuck, why didn't I notice this?
Really Kojima?
>>335785239
Wut?
>>335785239
>Militares Sans Frontiers
>Emblem is a skeleton head
Fucking really?
Remember when /v/ had a crush on Joost?
I heard you can getQuiet back now after she leaves.
>>335785239
There is nothing wrong with that statement.
Would you prefer "without?" Is sans too big of word for you?
>>335783592
>Where did it all go wrong?
It's time this meme ended. I don't even want to defend the game but some of you people just got everything about this game wrong. It's like V was the absolute pleb filter.
I really liked the beginning.
The worst part is how the game ended.
>eli and gas mask fuck off with a giant robot
>the actual ending wasn't even completed
>no final fight between Vic Boss and Solid Snake
I've watched them all last night, I got so frustrated at some points because it all seemed so promising.
>Venom screaming in agony at the end of E3 '14 trailer
>The launch trailer with Big Boss transforming
>That E3 '15 trailer with that godlike song.
>With each change - I changed too. My thoughts, personality, How I saw right and wrong... Words Can Kill.
>That Zero monologue while Venom CQC's the shit out of his soldiers
> So the major sought a system that used information: Words - To control the subconscious
If that trailer isn't the definition of Godlike I don't know what is.
>What took you so long?
Honestly before the 2013 trailer I didn't give a shit about Metal Gear Solid, but fucking damn that one line made me so invested in what the the games were about. The wonder of who Big Boss was made me get into the games. Like, the fucker planned and infiltrated a heavily guarded outpost to save his bro and what does he have to say? "What took you so long?" Kojima wanted to have this legacy of Big Boss but it all failed so much in the end.
>>335786824
You've helped cement the idea that people shitposting about mgsv are PCucks new to the series, congratulations.
>>335785328
undertale reference
Open-world was one of the worst things that happened toTPP. The open-world served no purpose other than to make the level design less-diverse and interesting, reduce the quality of the level design from a gameplay aspect, allow for lazy mission design by re-using the same location multiple times (which is forgivable for side-ops, but for main missions - really?), and generally butcher the pacing of the story telling.
Now this is going to be a controversial opinion, but overall as a complete experience I preferred the time I spent playing Ground Zeroes to that playing TPP. Not once in the TPP did I get the same rush I did from that first time playing GZ; that wonderfully vulnerable feeling of being absolutely surrounded in the enemy's stronghold; the thrill of being sent into the frey with minimal weaponry at your disposal (more so in hard mode); the well designed mission area that allowed for multiple scripted and in scripted methods of infiltrating the various areas of the base. IMO not a single mission in TPP felt as well designed or thought out as Camp Omega.
Even from a story-telling stand-point I preferhow Ground Zeroes handled it (and that's saying something). The story in GZ was by no means "good" in fact it was downright shit, but the way it was told was phenomenal; two intense, well-shot cutscenes with a true gut-wrenching (lol) impact to bookmark your time playing the mission; simple in structure yet beautifully executed. In TPP missions upon missions go by with little to no story progression, making the main missions feel inconsequential.
My idea TPP would have looked more like this -Series of main missions set in distinct and separate environments with many routes of infiltration -Optional side missions that may reuse the same environments, but maybe with some alterations -Weapons OSP or slightly more restrictive method of deployment- controversial but I didn't like how overpowered the sortee made you -Main missions bookmarked by impactful cutscenes
>>335783592
Too much filler. By the end of the game I wasn't even angry, just disappointed.
>>335787509
TL;DR- GZ was like starter at a fancy restaurant- small, overpriced, took itself too seriously, but undeniably a great experience which promised much more to come.
TPP was like then being told that your main course is in the form of an all-you-can eat buffet. Whatever you plate up is going to be messy and unstructured, it doesn't have the same type of cohesion or complexity and you inevitably end up with too much crap on your plate that you don't want while missing something you do want.
Food metaphors senpai.
>>335787494
No.
>>335786605
>Ocelot wanting vagoo
Confirmed for not playing
I WAS BORN IN A SMALL VILLAGE
>>335787494
You're a retard.
>>335787618
>>335787618
Yes you piece of shit
>>335787683
fuck off
>>335787573
That was actually a pretty good analogy. Good job.
>>335787430
>PCucks
Where in his post was that indicated?
>>335787567
>Too much filler.
Pretty much the only open world game in recent memory with so little filler. This is FF XII all over again. People -inevitably- complaining about the change in genres.
>>335787509
>The open-world served no purpose
That's a lie. If you played Peace Walker you know that a game like this desperately needed an open world setting.
>>335786605
>Shadman
>>335783592
Everyone came up with a way more interesting story based on the trailers
It didn't help that bossfights were replaced with skull units for whatever reason. My favorite part of MGS games was the crazy bosses and I doubt I'm the only one
>>335787509
>The open-world served no purpose
man, that first mission made it seem like it was going to be fucking hugely important. "you have three days to scout this huge zone, pick up intel, and get to Kaz" was a great objective. They drop the entire idea immediately and outposts serve only to prevent you from driving a jeep directly to your objective.
>>335787807
>That's a lie. If you played Peace Walker you know that a game like this desperately needed an open world setting
Yeah, maybe in PW, not here pleb.
>>335787807
Please tell me how the open world enhanced gameplay
>>335785859
You heard wrong, buddy.
I no way can you get her back.
Nope, not in a million years.
Just forget it, mate.
>>335787807
>Pretty much the only open world game in recent memory with so little filler.
An assload of story missions were barely different from side ops. Just "go here and nab this guy so a 1 minute talk can happen at the end of the mission" over and over, with occasional important dialogue taking place. At least Peace Walker was less annoying since missions were shorter.
>>335787921
>Everyone came up with a way more interesting story based on the trailers
the fact that the story was mainly delivered via tapes and a couple of monologues (Dine and Skull Face) doesn't mean the story premise was not brilliant. MG series were always based around weapons of mass destruction. The point of making nanomachines and bacteria the center of their respective games was to communicate the idea that they were a level above nuclear weapons. Genetic engineering (Solid Snake) is a weapon, vocal parasites is a weapon, nanomashines is a weapon, controlling information (MGS 2) is a weapon. Every game tried to up the urgency of a new kind of mass destruction weapon that's above nuclear.
>>335788347
The premise is fine, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of the people who got upset that the MGS3 bosses were parasite-carriers and not inexplicably magic. I'm more getting at how the game wasn't nuclear big bosses downfall but instead the story of the world's nicest man getting revenge on the villain who you see twice.
>>335788347
The story delivered in the tapes was boring shit too though. Just because a narrative does something "different" doesn't qualify it as good. There was no purpose to MGSV outside of being a sleazy rip of western games like The Last of Us, which are even less interesting than what Kojima has previously produced.
>>335788147
Replay the mission where she tries to snipe at you.
>>335787509
>My idea TPP would have looked more like this -Series of main missions set in distinct and separate environments with many routes of infiltration -Optional side missions that may reuse the same environments, but maybe with some alterations -Weapons OSP or slightly more restrictive method of deployment- controversial but I didn't like how overpowered the sortee made you -Main missions bookmarked by impactful cutscenes
That would have been better. The way the ended up doing Phantom Pain's mission structure made no sense. Instead of a continuous interwoven story like every other Metal Gear game, every mission is disjointed under the guise of mercenary work to rebuild Diamond Dogs and investigate skullface. This would have worked if every mission was like the main Ground Zeroes mission was; if every mission took place in a completely new local in different and unique locations around the world or even just a continent or two. If the maps were dense but limited the game would feel bigger and more complete. They could reuse the same maps for side ops.
OR
Keep the open world, but have the entire game consist of missions containing the story. And interlock it so that you could literally travel between locations to continue on where you need to go. Hell have the helicopter take you to the next local or even let you fly the helicopter yourself so you can avoid detection. Instead we got this awful break system where you have to keep flying back to your base and then flying into the next mission which 90% of the time has nothing to do with skullface, cypher, eli, or whatever else.
>>335788113
Gave you a lot of room to plan.
Didn't feel restricted in any way.
Was especially fun/useful for the OKB Zero mission and the Caravan ambush missions.
The problem with MGSV wasn't the open-world, it was the retreading, and fact that the 3rd chapter of the game was completely removed.
Not same anon, but just chiming in.
>>335785859
>>335788147
>Quiet just reappears in your base
>no mission where you track her down and ask her to marry you.
>no cutscene where you get married on motherbase
>and have a son namedJACK THE RIPPER
>>335788789
Just for a comparison, here's a brief mission list for Peace Walker and Phantom Pain.
1. Delve into the swampy jungles of Eastern Limón and make your way to the Sandinista hideout, where you will make contact with their Comandante.
2. Track and locate Amanda, the Sandinista leader, and obtain intel on the enemy's bases and the route used to transport the nuclear material.
3. Boss fight.
4.Rescue Chico from the Aldea Los Despiertos Prison Facility and locate the route used by the U.S. mercenaries to transport the nuclear material.
5.Proceed immediately to the jungle train terminal located at El Cadaso, and stop the nuclear shipment before it reaches the enemy's main base in Volcán Irazú.
Etc etc every mission has to do with the basic plot that the game set in place at the very beginning of the game and is a continuous flow. Now let's look at Phantom Pain.
1.Rescue your old partner, Kazuhira Miller. He has been captured by the Soviets and is being interrogated at Ghwandai Town.
2.Eliminate the Spetsnaz detachment commander secretly involved in the scorched earth operation in Afghanistan. The target and his recon unit have occupied Shago Village and are ready to meet an assault.
3.Destroy the Soviet comms equipment to prevent reinforcements being sent between outposts.
4.Extract the engineer who tried to defect from a Soviet base camp and is now being held at Wakh Sind Barracks.
5.Recover the U.S. military's new weapon, code-named Honey Bee, hidden at Smasei Fort. The Soviets are also after it.
What does any of this have to do with Skullface, rebuilding Diamond Dogs, or Venom's revenge?
>>335783592
Hey, since I haven't been deep into MGSV since release, this is a good of place as any to ask: Did anyone ever figure out what those MSX-data tapes were all about? Elaborate ruse or just an easter egg?
I had more fun with the demo. GZ was tight as shit. KojiPro dropped the ball so hard. Going open-world was a mistake.
>>335789118
more nods to the older games involving 2 different Big Bosses to iron out wrinkles in the continuity.
i.e. Defeating Big Boss twice and his attitude toward Solid flip flopping.seemingly at random
>>335789202
Open world wasn't the problem you autistic goon.
It was the fact that Chapter II was 80% rehashed content, and that Chapter III had to be cut due to Konami being completely suicidal.
>>335789313
Being open world did not benefit the game in the slightest.
It was an unnecessary gimmick
>>335789021
>>no cutscene where you get married on motherbase
>>335789505
Is there a mod that lets you have Quiet be wet and in minimal clothes like that all the time?
>>335789505
this, who needs marriage when you have this?
>>335789060
>What does any of this have to do with Skullface, rebuilding Diamond Dogs, or Venom's revenge?
Literally all 5 points. Did you play the game ?
>>335789624
Outside of rescuing Kaz, explain.
>>335789624
>Being this bad a troll
>>335789387
Plotting waypoints, scouting, and planning was a big element to the game. Being able to tackle a mission from multiple directions was one of the most original and redeeming elements of MGSV.
Doing that in confined spaces would have sucked. Not to mention, all the missions where you had a limited amount of time to find a location, update your objective in the field as you arrived, and improvise.
Without open world, you'd just spawn into the mission area, kill guy, and leave.Like most other video games.
MGSV was unique in that getting to the mission area required choices in itself. Different angles to approach at, avoiding the checkpoint bases on the way to a heavily guarded area, etc.
The first Huey mission comes to mind. You had to cross that massive bridge, get passed the checkpoints, and find a way into the hangars all while choppers scrambled overhead on high alert.
Shit was intense because of how little was "given" to you.
>>335785104
>Kagemasa (or some other CEO) decided mid-production was the best moment to attempt to restructure the company and pressure staff into quitting by making the work environment as awful as he could.
Couldn't he just fire them instead of making them quit?
>>335789796
>Plotting waypoints, scouting, and planning was a big element to the game
Was done just as well in GZ; was only really important in a few missions
>spawn into the mission area, kill guy, and leave
Literally half the fucking missions in this game anyway
>The first Huey mission comes to mind. You had to cross that massive bridge, get passed the checkpoints
This literally could have been done in a closed world game wtf are you even talking about?
>Shit was intense because of how little was "given" to you
Yeah apart from LITERALLY PICKING ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT AT THE START OF EVERY MISSION ARE YOU EVEN FUCKING TRYING?
>>335789736
>>335789717
did your moms feed you milk or white paint ?
>rebuilding Diamond Dogs
1.Rescue your old partner, Kazuhira Miller
2.Eliminate the Spetsnaz detachment
3.Destroy the Soviet comms equipment
4.Extract the engineer
>Venom's revenge, Skullface
1.Rescue your old partner, Kazuhira Miller
5.Recover the U.S. military's new weapon, code-named Honey Bee
>>335790049
Japanese never fires. They pressure people to quit.
>>335783592
It felt like the theme of language gonna be refreshing and interesting except it's just a stupid killer virus thing that he just comically has in a stupid vial and then so happens the stupid kid has it and so on.
>>335783831
This
I didn't even get mad, just disapointed.
Skullface was the cherry on the poop sundae, he was NOTHING lile GZ promised, his grand scheme of of killing english was so stupid I found it downright disrespectful, after listening to the Chico tapes and knowing what he and Paz went through.
Eli was the only good thing in the game, he's the only returning character that seems to be the same, I like the Lord of the Flies analogy and he's a decent boss fight, unlike the Skull Unit.
>>335788879
Caravan amush mission I can see.
>camped with tank and mines. Convoy stopped in outpost and never went anywhere. Sneak up to try and fulton shit. Fuck you, Kojima. Fuck you.
I can see how open world could work for that, but OKB zero is pretty linear. How do you mean?
>>335783831
Yep GZ was much better. It was the largest, most detailed level and felt more like a traditional MGS style infiltration.
Did any levels in tpp even come close? The tpp gameplay was just awful.
It was a clear indication of the tone that kojima wanted. Judging by how brutal GZ was, chances are he intended TPP to be even more dark and violent and kojima was forced to outright scrap most of the story and censor what was left. Hence the incoherent ridiculous garbage we were left with.
>>335783592
Kojima overestimated his boundaries and tried making the game much larger than he cpuld really afford. Konami eventually got tired of his fucking around and demaded the game be released, finished or not.
>>335789585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA28-cm9DeA
>>335783592
>still no return to camp omega
>>335787494
Are you even trying?
>>335791776
Trying to do what?
This game had potential, if only Kojima pulled his head out of his ass and stuck to a more linear progression of the game. A series of GZ style levels wouls have been infinitely better than the unstructured mess we ended up getting.
It was so HYPE leading up to it as well, and the end result was just such a let down in comparison.
>335787509
This.
Open world was a fucking lie. The open world was a huge irrelevant piece of shit. It was a linear compartmentalized mission based game where your actions in the "open world" were completely irrelevant and had no bearing on any other mission. It served no purpose. It was just a huge empty void with some animals to collect for your pokemon zoo or herbs to pick for no reason because you have way too many anyways.
Mission areas were constantly recycled and were just bland, generic, and lazily designed with no attention to detail or easter eggs. There were almost as many security cameras in GZ as there were in TPP.
You never felt outgunned or outmatched, there was no threat of being discovered, it just helped bring everyone into one area so you could more easily tranq them all and fulton them all with no cooldown. I guess there are fleets of planes circling above at all times ready to fulton everything.
Konami tried to ruin kojima's game, his name, and his legacy. Looking forward to what he gets done on his own.
>>335791598
I know about that scene I'm just wondering if theres a mod that makes her look like that all the time
