Casual reminder that Ludleth is an Angel that is responsible for the events of Dark Souls 3.
During an unknown point in time the bell did not ring and the flame was not linked. This was due to Champion Gundyr, an unkindled of that era, being imprisoned. This is the Untended Graves.
Ludleth reminds the Unkindled that the Age of Dark is born of betrayal. He stresses this.
Ludleth the 'Exiled', who must be immensely powerful, willed himself into a Lord of Cinder so that he could link the fire. He expresses great remorse at the coming of the age of dark, how he tried to do all he could to keep 'them' from the firekeeper. Something brutal must have happened to her when the dark arrived.
Ludleth creates a second timeline. This timeline has the flame linked and the firekeeper and lords of cinder as well as the unkindled are prisoners to be born again and again to link the fire.
The flame is growing weaker so it revives all the Lords of Cinder. But only Ludleth had linked the fire and his body is burned heavily as a result. He has nightmares about this experience if you kill him and he revives. He asks for forgiveness from the flame hinting at his being the one who betrayed. The other Lords are powerful enough souls to be put to the flame and rekindle it but none of the others wish to actually do so.
Ludleth is called 'the Exiled' because he exiled himself out of his actual timeline, that being the Age of Dark where everything went to hell. He doesn't want the Firekeeper to get the first Firekeeper's eyes because then she will know the horror of that Dark, about how she was killed, and she will know the horror that Ludleth himself caused by imprisoning Gundyr and bringing it about.
Ludleth is eager to link the fire because he knows firsthand what it means to be without it.
This is why Kaathe changes strategy. Instead of seeing that the fire not be linked, which failed due to Ludleth changing it, he could get the flame to be Usurped by the Unkindled. The flame can't be linked if its no longer in its mantle and is owned by an individual. And that individual is the strongest soul around.
Ludleth questions your intent because he knows this is how Kaathe can beat him.
Also, I think pic related is Ludleth. Beard and feathers burned away. Also would explain why he's so damn powerful.
>all that fanfiction
Awesome lore really like how untended graves gets explained as the old time line that Ludleth abandoned.
Too bad it's not the actual lore.
He's not that powerful actually, he's pretty insecure about his position as Lord of Cinder and likely burnt himself in order to act as an agent of somebody else to guide the Ashen One in his quest.
Here's some dialogue that you missed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koCVr5mg6mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTzp0TSjl6o
What a great load of horseshit
But nice imagination anon
frampt is the angel.
Fanfic/10
But rather interesting to think about regardless.
>>335774306
>>335774413
Quit making shit up, Vaati.
>>335774306
Plausible/10
too bad FromSoft will probably never actually explain any of this though
>>335776593
>Plausible/10
Like how Solaire was Gwyn's first son
Its all bullshit. From cant write anything well so they do this unexplained crap to pretend like their lore is deep.
Um the serpents are the angels, retard.
>>335774306
>willed himself into a Lord of Cinder so that he could link the fire. He expresses great remorse at the coming of the age of dark
> He doesn't want the Firekeeper to get the first Firekeeper's eyes because then she will know the horror of that Dark
>Ludleth is eager to link the fire
Except when you return from the Untended Graves he does nothing to stop your betrayal. He even encourages you to choose thine fate by yourself.
>>335774306
>During an unknown point in time the bell did not ring and the flame was not linked.
There doesn't need to be a bell, it's symbolic and tied to a religious mind set event in the dank souls world. When the fire wanes and the dark grabs hold, the effects are immediate.
The first being that humans are unable to die and become hollows instead.
>>335776947
The bell is needed to awaken the Lords of Cinder from their dead sleep to rekindle the Flame.
The Flame is a cruel mistress. After being burned alive to fuel it, the Lords still can't find their eternal rest, because it times of danger the Flame will reanimate them to be used as its fuel again. No wonder none of the Lords are willing to return to their thrones.
>>335777216
I don't get it, why do the lords still have their souls if they burned them? If they can infinitely kindle the fire, why isn't the fire itself infinite? Aren't lord souls supposed to be basically the same as the first flame?
And someone explain to me what the heck an unkindled actually is, is he superior to normal undead? He can't go hollow and seems to be able to use the fire to buff himself, which should be god-exclusive?
Waiting for weeks for a fucking lore video, what are these people doing?
>>335777682
Honestly, the whole story of DSIII looks really fishy to me. Maybe the DLCs will clear the picture. As of now, I can't really answer your questions.
>>335776675
>Like how Solaire was Gwyn's first son
Somebody hasn't found the Dragon Shrine yet.
>>335775564
"The eyes show a world destitute of fire, a barren plane of endless darkness. A place born of betrayal. So I will'd myself Lord, to link the fire, to paint a new vision. What is thine intent?"
>>335776908
Which is because the outside world outside of the Lords of Cinder want to stop the cycle "Gwyndolin and Crew" which is the "betrayal" he speaks of, the firelink shrine you are in in the majority of the game is an illusion created by them to usurp the linking of the fire, when the lords found out they either fucked off or chased down the remaining gods responsible (Aldrich for example going after Gwyndolin) because they know what they are trying to do (take the flame for their own to start the world anew) Champion Gyundr is the person set in place at the actual firelink shrine to prevent the ashen one from falling prey to the betrayal, the one you fight in the beginning is an illusion of him created to test the ashen undead rising to hear the bell toll that would be tasked with defeating the actual one.
All of it was a set up, Ludleth was the one who decided to be the "in" and betray the other lords of cynder to help Gwyndolin, he was exiled because of this and when the remaining Lords of Cynder decided to leave their thrones the fire faded extremely fast, Ludleth came back and attempted to link it himself which only caused a partial rekindling and him to become burnt which only bought so much time before the bell toll would result in an Ashen soldier capable of bringing the lords to their thrones. He feels extremely guilty because his actions caused the world to die faster, and everyone that had helped him initially were hunted down and killed by the other lords of cynder. He is torn between wanting to link the flame to save the current cycle or follow through on everything and leaves the decision up to the ashen one because he doesn't know whats best, he only warns you because he is afraid of you failing in the same way.
The reason the original firelink shrine is so dark is because that is the actual current state of the flame.
>>335777682
It's a different set of lords each time. They're chosen, die and come back with the bell, to give their souls to the flame. Then new lords are eventually chosen for the next time.
>>335778630
>illusion
nah
>>335777869
Solaire and Gwyn's First Born(Nameless King) are two different people.
>It's another autistic headcanon tumblr thread
oh boy. hey guys what if yhorm has a face because hes not a giant, but just a really big guy
>4 u
xD
>>335778817
>Can't get there by any means outside of teleportation
>Not connected or view able from any part of the game world
>Would not make sense if it were a depiction of a firelink shrine in the past because of the location of dark shrine you find because its literally underground
>A Champion guarding the dark shrine and the real thrones isn't a dead give away because of what you find there
>Not reading into the hints the shrine maiden at the dark shrine gives you
Nigga pls
>all these niggas that didn't give the eyes of the firekeeper to Irina of Carim after helping her become a true firekeeper
Wew
>>335779158
>Burdening the pure waifu and not the town bike with the eyes
I bet youre a katana faggot as well.
>>335778630
>the "betrayal" he speaks of
The betrayal he speaks of is the Ashen One not playing his role of the linker of the Flame, and going for the Dark ending instead.
>world outside of the Lords of Cinder want to stop the cycle
I just told you that the Lords themselves are opposed to the idea of linking the Flame. That's why you have to kill them in the first place.
And even Ludleth doesn't mind if you want to put it out for good, despite being the most loyal of the Lords.
>Ludleth decided to help Gwyndolin
>Ludleth came back and attempted to link it himself which only caused a partial rekindling
>everyone that had helped him initially were hunted down and killed by the other lords of cynder
What the fuck?
>>335774306
>Ludleth is an Angel
stopped reading right the fuck there.
the angels are serpents, either frampt and kaathe themselves or their descendants. they corrupted lothric, and some of the strongest knights swore loyalty to them.
lothric was once populated by winged beings, NOT angels. the winged knights have one of these beings captive, you can find a miracle on her corpse. the "angels" likely wanted to supress actual angelic beings.
the winged knights gave Queen Lothric up to the cathedral of the deep, Rosaria, Lothric, and Gwynevere are the same. some lothric knights, the same type that are guarding ocerios are at the cathedral, likely there because of Rosaria.
Rosaria also represents twisted rebirth, and Gwynevere was regarded as a goddess of fertility.
this is further reinforced by the black eye orb questline.
>>335779074
>Can't get there by any means outside of teleportation.
The passage that you enter the dark firelink is there in the light version you just cant get up to it. You cant leave the dark firelink without teleportation.
>Not connected or view able from any part of the game world.
You can see the castle directly behind you, it blocks the rest of the world from your view.
>Would not make sense if it were a depiction of a firelink shrine in the past because of the location of dark shrine you find because its literally underground.
Gundyr's armor confirms that a warrior from the past pushed his shit in. Also nothing suggests it's underground beyond it being dark.
>Not reading into the hints the shrine maiden at the dark shrine gives you
She was being vague about the corpse of the past firekeeper, to give the player a hint to look for some other shit in the empty firelink.
>>335779223
If you weren't a waifu fag you would realize that it is what you are supposed to actually do and you get more information about what happened if you do
Can anyone explain to me what the fuck is up with the liquid black serpents, people turning into wooden flying demons, and why the former are barely in the game?
>>335777869
You mean the Dragon Shrine with the boss that shows Solaire is most assuredly not Gwyns firstborn?
>>335778889
Yes, that was what I was getting at.
>>335779074
>Not connected or view able from any part of the game world
>Would not make sense if it were a depiction of a firelink shrine in the past because of the location of dark shrine you find because its literally underground
Actually it is connected. You can see the cave you drop down to it from Oceiros' gardens, which aren't underground, they're just in the lowest district of the castle.
Firelink and Untended Graves are the same area in the game. It uses something like phasing in WoW.
Anyway, if the Firelink is an illusion, so must be the WHOLE WORLD. Because wherever you go you can see consistency in the skybox. The sun changing into the Darksign and whatnot.
Also you interact with different people who come in and out from Firelink. Are those illusions as well?
>>335779435
>Dark firelink is in the past, it says so on the armor!
>Soul says you're late
>from in charge of lore
>>335774306
Shitty fanfic, this anon has already done it for me
>>335775940
but you're completely wrong. Ludleth plays the big guy but at the end of the day he knows he's frail and pathetic .
Must have been fun wasting your time writing such a shitty theory.
>>335779364
>or their descendants
Kaathe is still around and is chilling in L O N D O R. Or so it seems. I'm pretty sure beings called primordial serpents don't die from old age.
I wonder if they are older than the dragons?
>Ahh.. gracious Lord... make Londor whole...
what did she mean by this?
>>335779768
She wants your hollow dick.
Impressive theory. But it's still just that: a theory. Unless you can provide some actual evidence it's no more valid than the next fags theory.
Here's mine:
The Ashen one has absorbed too many souls and is having a really bad case of schizophrenia. Firelink shrine (the hub) is just a manifestation of his shattered mind.
>>335779485
Pus of Man (black serpents) are manifestations of the Abyss taking over people, it's like a parasite. Although there are some theories that it's Dragons being reborn in preparation for the coming Age of Dark.
>>335779816
All dicks are hollow anon this isn't some great revelation
>>335778062
Sounds more like a vision of a potential future than him actually have lived in an alternate timeline and used hitherto unheard of time powers to summon his stand, Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap, to teleport to a better timeline
>>335779668
I believe it was implied in DkS1 that Primordial Serpents are old as, if not older than Dragons.
>>335779768
>>335779850
Why would dragons be reborn for the Age of Dark?
>>335776394
>vaati
>making shit up instead of stealing it
>>335779923
The idea is that it's cyclicle, whenever Fire burns out Dragons take over again till a new Fire is created. Of course this is only a fan-theory I heard second-hand but it's still interesting.
>>335779882
Well, that says nothing.
The very definition of the word primordial implies that they are very ancient and might be even older than the dragons. But.
They seem to have strong ties to the Dark and Abyss thematically. Which didn't exist until the appearance of the First Flame. Without disparity it had brought to the world neither Dark nor Light existed in the first place.
>>335777869
>>335779543
and he was saying that in dark souls 1, solaire being gwyns firstborn son was plausible, yet untrue just like what OP wrote sounds plausible but might be bullshit.
how fucking dense are you
>>335779768
#MLWA
were going to deport all non-hollows
>>335779668
>>335779882
Don't the serpents exist outside of the cycle, Like how Aldia found a way remove himself from the cycle of fire/dark
>>335779978
>Dragons take over again
The age of dark is the age of man, not the age of dragons
>>335779978
But I thought Dragons existed before the cycle ever existed, and their death, Gwyn's rise to power lead to the cycle's birth.
Why would Dragons be born back into a cycle they were never apart?
Also isn't it stated that the dragons were never truly alive/or dead and just flying schrodinger's cats?
Why would they be born into a cycle all about Life/Death, Light/Dark
>>335779440
What happens? Didn't know I could turn her into a firekeeper too.
>>335779485
I assumed Abyss for the former, the latter are gargoyles or some shit.
>Eyes of a Fire Keeper
>A pair of dark eyes.
>Said to be the eyes of the first Fire Keeper, and the light that was lost by all Fire Keepers to come.
>It reveals to the sightless Fire Keepers things that they should never see.
I'd think maybe the first betrayal started the cycle but the first fire's decay was the era of Gwyn, so unless that means the Dark souls 1 chosen undead was the betrayer it doesn't make sense.
>>335779978
Dragons are from the age of gray, when there was no light and no dark and no fire. The age of dark would likely be the domain of dorkwraiths and abyssal monsters. Then again consider what the age of dark firelink shrine had - black knights and nothing else besides Gundyr and the shrine haindmaiden along with the remains of firekeepers.
>>335779978
When the fire burns out the Age of Dark happens.
It's currently unknown what happens next. There are three possible scenarios:
1. Eventually the Age of Dark comes to an end naturally, just like the Age of Fire before it. And after that the Flame is rekindled naturally/new Flame appears, and the cycle goes on forever.
2. The Age of Dark ends like in the first scenario, but the new Flame doesn't appear. With no one to link the Fire, the cycle is broken and the world returns to its pre-Flame state, with Dragons and Archtrees.
3. The Age of Dark goes on virtually forever, unless the Fire is somehow rekindled again.
>>335780030
BUILD WALL TO ANOR LONDO BORDER
GODS ARE STEALING OUR SOULS
MAKE LONDOR WHOLE AGAINT
So are the red-eyed monsters corrupted by the abyss or something? Is there any lore behind it or is it just "video games lol".
>>335774413
Linking the fire = bad ending.
Extinguish the fire = bad ending.
Usurp = (slightly more) bad ending.
Okay.
>>335780246
I assume so. In the Abyss Watchers fight they'll ONLY attack the red-eyed one.
>>335780159
If you purchase all her miracles (I dont think its all of them just a big chunk of them) and don't buy ANY dark miracles she becomes a firekeeper and she moves to the bottom of the shrine, she tells you more about what the eyes show her.
I also gave them to the original firekeeper and she begged me to kill her so I did and looted the eyes back before giving them to Irina, not sure if that had to be done or not
DUDE ILLUSIONS LMAO
>>335780246
Hollows in DaS1 had red eyes.
Honestly I'm not sure anymore. The lore in DaS3 is a complete clusterfuck.
>>335780246
The dark blobs that burst out of some hollows and Gundry are humanity going wild. Kinda like in Oolacile.
The red eyed knights are just tough motherfuckers. Don't think it has any lore implications, it's just a game mechanic to signify higher danger level for the player.
>it's shit/0
>woh this is not true bro
>nobody even explains why
classic /v/
>>335780246
If you take into consideration that most red-eyed monsters are also mutated somehow (like how red-eye hollows are bigger and have lanky ass arms) it's not a bad theory since the abyss fucks with people that way.
>>335780349
Out of the 3 different Abyss Watchers you can have out at one time, only one will have Red Eyes, and he's the ONLY one the other two will attack (and vice versa). There's more to red-eyes than just "slightly stronger".
>>335780159
It technically makes sense because they are the first one to have influence outside of the gods to influence towards the future of the flame.
I mean you are being lead around by Primordial Serpents, who is to say that you didn't fall for a trick.
>>335780309
>tfw doubleteaming the true abyss watcher with the red-eyed one
That was pretty fun
is "Londor" New Londo?
What about the letting the fire fade ending but murdering the firekeeper and taking the ember from her? It's the ending I chose cause I think its the most cycle-breaking one. And because it was an ending nobody shilled to me, so I wouldnt be manipulated by any cunt.
Why is there no big flame woooosh when you link the fire and your dude sits down almost in disappointment? Is it to symbolize the futility of the deed, cause its a cycle and the world will go to shit again anyways? Or is the unkindled one too late? Or maybe this time the cycle broke and you cant link the flame?
Why is the last boss trying to murder you? If its an amalgamation of the previous lords of cinder it should welcome the next "Linker" of the flame, maybe with some beverages to reward him for all the shit he struggled through to get here, instead of trying to murder him? Is it just fanservice?
>>335780405
Still doesn't add up. Regular Lothric knights don't attack their red-eyed cousins on sight.
>>335780308
>Usurp = (slightly more) bad ending.
No? You literally absorb the fire.
If anything it's the "best" ending.
I know fextralife a shit, but: http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Shrine+Handmaid
>"If you talk to the Handmaid in Untended Graves before ever talking to her in Firelink Shrine at all, she will greet you differently in Firelink as though she already recognizes you, but then says it was nothing."
Although it's patently obvious the untended graves is abyssal or age of dark in some measure since it sells Artorias' gear.
>>335780314
Neato, I bought all her miracles but she didn't move over for some reason. I'll check what her dialogue is. And yeah you can do that with the original if you want to back out of the ending.
Can someone test if Storm Ruler's charge works against Cursed-Rotted Greatwood?
>>335780448
To be fair the boss-watcher is a gigantic pussy. Someone somehow got a Dark Wraith into the fight and the fucker solo'd him all the way to phase 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfz5Lj4FF7w
Then again, Dark Wraiths are supreme fucking bullshit in this game.
>>335780501
Report all Kaathe posters.
>>335780485
>>335780405
I'm pretty sure that Abyss Watcher only has red eyes to signify that he's different. All the Abyss Watchers are affected by the abyss more or less, just look at the black goop they have on their clothes.
>>335780485
>You just activated my trap card
Because the Abyss Watchers are SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED to go apeshit at any sign of the Abyss.
>>335780460
I haven't sat down and really started figuring shit out yet but I was under the impression that the Profaned Capital was New Londo.
>>335780460
Londor could very well be New New Londo. Both Yoel and Yuria mention serving Kaathe if you kill them, and Kaathe resided in New Londo with his Dickwraiths and 4 Kikes.
I tried to read as much as possible though and almost nothing is said about Londor other than that Yuria and Yoel hail from there, and that Yuria is one of three matriarch types who serves Kaathe.
So what's Wollnir's deal? Why was he banished to the abyss and why does his cup teleport you there?
>>335780526
It might have to be every single one, I am a collector in these games so I bought all of them after giving her the tomes, I didn't give her any until I had all of them and you can give the dark ones to the witch so I did that instead
>>335780554
> he doesn't want to become a beacon of hope for humanity
Report all Gwyn supporters
There is literally nothing to prove most of what you just said. You're a retardo.
>>335780460
>Why is there no big flame woooosh when you link the fire and your dude sits down almost in disappointment?
It's speculated because you're "unkindled" and are "unfit to be even cinder".
My old theory was based on that Gwyn was the one who placed the curse upon humanity by linking the fire for the first time.
In DS1 you kindle bonfires by sacrificing your humanity to them. Humans without humanity become hollow.
The gods feared the coming age of dark and humans rising in power, because they're beings of dark, as opposed to gods.
Makes sense.
Or at least it did until DS3. The unkindled one doesn't go hollow until it gets the dark sigil, out of which humanity seeps.
Maybe the unkindled aren't really humans in the first place? I don't know.
>>335779017
Its called theories.
People like them.
He isn't saying headcanon. He's speculating.
>>335780540
>ghru gets through the fog wall
>two watchers and a poison goat faggot chasing me around
What a bunch of bullshit. Wish it had been a darkwraith instead.
>>335780648
>Why was he banished to the abyss and why does his cup teleport you there?
To spook you. What other reason could there be?
Skeletons live to spook, this isn't news.There's a Skeleton currently hiding inside you right now.
>>335780067
Its likely given they appear in the age of fire as well.
But its more likely they have far more power in the dark, and want the world to turn to this state.
Also lads; what was up with the dragon-tree people. Is that signifying that the cycle is coming to a close and that the grey archtree and dragon stage is not actually an isolated incident, since in lothric's final time they are flying about, given time would they become dragons?
>>335780646
New Londo DLC, dope
Also anyone else thought that when Pontiff Sully enters phase 2 strikes a resemblence with a certain quarteto of kings? The wings he sprouts, after dealing some dark damage, I think the pope is an abyss cuck.
>>335780501
It's complicated. Yuria of Londor when she is kill says something like "kaathe I have failed you my lord'. But the distinction between usurp the flame and the age of dark seems redundant if they are the same end. Some write it off as Kaathe's machinations >>335774413 but I can't help but feel like there is something more at play than just being the exact same ending. The hollow wanting londor whole, the 'lord of hollows', it might be wishful thinking on my part but I feel like usurpation is more than just bringing about the age of darkness.
Considering the unlit firelink shrine has no abyssals whatsoever, Gundyr is even in normal mode with no black serpent ink and you face black knights who exclusively are knights of Gwyn who were burnt with him.
But if snuffing out the flame isn't Kaathe's ending then what the fuck is it?
>>335780662
Do you recall what she said/ I can't seem to find the material for it.
>>335779668
they probably don't die but they might reproduce, and if dragons can die why can't serpents?
there were death animations for them in DaS after all.
anyway, my theory is that at some point winged beings started showing up.
these winged beings quickly rise to power and are responsible for the religions that permeate in both Lothric and Irathyll. Pontiff Sulyvahn studies under this religion, and eventually rises to power and conquers what was left of Anor Londo with ease.
the serpents realize their influence may fade unless they come up with a plan, so using either illusiory magic, or straight up fake wings they pull the same shit they did in DaS and try getting people to play the "don't link the fire" game.
eventually, lothric and lorian get reborn as undead and have to link the fire. upon their rebirth was when their souls were linked and were cursed, this is why the robes lothric was "born" in fit a grown man.
lothric, being the sissy little faggot he is doesn't want to link the fire because dying hurt too much or something, this causes the link to be threatened and the bell WOULD HAVE tolled awakening the past lords.
but it doesn't, something un accounted for happened. Ocerios. he's locked himself away with a fluffytail and firelink is shut away as a result. he's imprisoned the last would-be champion there and lets the fire fade because he wants to go be a dragon.
then ludleth comes into play, he was someone powerful. or someone with a deep enough fear of the dark to will himself a lord of cinder and link the flame. the ring he drops, the skull ring discribes a beast called the soulfeeder, which I think influenced or helped ludleth link the flame. it says the beast was burnt and the air around it was stained with the scent of souls.
in all likelyhood, he was a waifufag who didn't want to see the firekeeper keep getting ripped apart by the little creatures that nibble in the darkness.
>>335780698
Oh, okay.
>>335780920
I wish there was more information about Pontiff. He seems like a truly evil individual, and his wings definitely make me think of the Four Kings.
His black eyes making the Outrider nights and Dancer go crazy and shit sound pretty spooky.
>>335780946
In the Betrayal ending you like the First Flame die out.
In the Usurp ending you take the flame into yourself. Presumably combining it with your dark sigils for more power.
>>335780804
Wollnir looks pretty spooked himself when he gets pulled in by the abyss after you beat him. I always feel bad for him.
>>335774413
>a random statue you can see once in the game is an NPC
You are really reaching far up into your ass for this aren't you?
>>335780773
It's not called theories at all.
A theory is the result of testing a hypothesis and you keep challenging a theory constantly to see if it breaks a part. If it doesn't it get accepted as a probable truth until someone can break it.
What is going on in here is as you say pure speculation and problem arises when you try to enforce your speculation as truth through mass agreement. That is cult behavior.
>>335781101
How do you beat a true Dark Lord?
It's an undead with a power of the Dark Soul, the other four Lord Souls that came from the Flame, and also whatever power was still left in the Flame that didn't come out of it in form of souls.
>>335781181
Haha holy shit.
Are you claiming souls lore threads are now cultish because they like speculation?
wew fucking wew.
>>335781131
>Wollnir looks pretty spooked himself
He looks outright fucking terrified. There's barely any information on Wolnir or Carthus though so it's hard to give a fuck about him.
My guess would be though is those bangles on his arms provided light gave him some sort of comfort or protection, and that you destroying them royally fucked him over.
>>335780540
Even lorewise an individual abyss watcher wasn't very strong. They were just regular undead who drank wolfblood. Hunted in packs like wolves and were green blossom addicts to even to wield their weapons
>>335780946
Linking the flame, and snuffing it out just keeps the cycle going. I chose to let it die waiting for something different to happen and when the firekeeper kept an ember and said that "o its k uk one one day this ember will be a big flame again and all will be k" when the game let me move around I tried murdering her and it worked and took it from her, doesnt show though if you snuff that ember or use it for something else.
Kaathe knows that letting the fire die is useless so he takes a different approach.
I'm kinda disappointed by the endings, being the last souls game I was expecting something more radical to happen. Maybe Miyazaki wanted to show us a more nihilistic perspective, that in the end it doesnt really matter, no matter what you do you will be a pawn of "nature" (the nature of the flame finding its way to be kindled again) or somebody elses (Kaathe's), he just obscured the Kaathe thing so the dark edgelords can be happy for a while thinking they are some kind of satanic darklord until they discover they got manipulated.
>>335779158
First thing I tried.
Never got the option to. I can only level up or leave, not even talk. Either I'm missing something or you're full of shit.
>>335777682
>why do the lords still have their souls if they burned them?
You don't offer souls this time around. When you slay a Lord of Cinder, they all drop Soul and Cinder. Soul you can do whatever you want, but its the cinders you offer to thrones. I think its their body that actually burns. Ludlith offered his legs and the Firekeeper says something like "Unkindled is a vessel for souls".
>>335781310
That's exactly what they did. He fell into the Abyss and was terrified so he prayed to the gods for help. They gave him the bracelets and sword for comfort. When you break the bracelets, he gets totally pulled into the darkness.
He also spends most of his time in the fight trying to climb up to where you showed up assuming there's a way out there, not trying to attack you.
>>335781346
Considering it was supposed to be the end of the series, I don't get why they left it open for more cycles(games).
Seems like a bullshit cop out. I wasn't expecting a happy ending or whatever, but I did want an ending.
>>335781310
>There's barely any information on Wolnir or Carthus though so it's hard to give a fuck about him.
>My guess would be though is those bangles on his arms provided light gave him some sort of comfort or protection
His soul and item descriptions tell you everything about him. I can't remember, but he delves into some dark shit and fucks up and then prays to the gods for help and they give him those bangles so he doesn't get eaten by the abyss. Or something like that anyway.
>>335781310
>>335781131
But we have.
Wolnir was a great fucking conqueror and a fedora tipping atheist. But then he somehow fell into the Abyss, and then he got really fucking spooked, so he started praying to all the gods he thought didn't exist, and whose followers he persecuted.
That's why he has glowing bracelet and a sword made of light. Still didn't help him though.
>>335781131
>I always feel bad for him.
Wollnir was a conqueror who killed a shitton of people. He started desecrating corpses and using dark pyromancies. He only got the holy sword and bangles when he realized how much the abyss was on his heels.By touching the cup you create a link to the outside world. He tries to kill you so he can escape the abyss and have you take his place
>>335781413
There's still three DLCs coming. Could give a proper ending.
>>335781390
>>335781414
Good points, my bad. Kind of wish we had a bit of information on Wolnir before becoming a Spook though.
>>335781438
Wolnir did nothing wrong
>>335780540
Wait, speaking of dark wraiths, I just remembered that I was told to go to the bottom of the dungeon to find the oldest Dark Wraith and get the red orb.
I don't think I found it. Where is it and what does he look like?
>>335781181
>theory as used in a casual setting=same meaning as theory usd in a scientific setting
Lay off the autismos
>>335781446
Fair enough, but is getting a proper ending something we should really hope comes out of paid DLC? Is that where we're at now?>implying they won't save the proper ending for Apostle of the Second, but equally bad Sin edition, only $49.99 or $39.99 for people who own the original verison + Season Pass
>>335781646
It's just what the industry has come to, sadly.
>>335781575
Second bonfire in High Wall, Tower or whatever.
Go all the way down, and there's a gated doorway with a lift behind it.
>>335781575
You know that dark area next to the second bonfire in Wall? Door is in there.
He's just an average Dick Wraith, don't get your hopes up.
>>335781575
The second locked door, opposite to the one you went through to save Greirat.
>>335780460
>Why is there no big flame woooosh when you link the fire and your dude sits down almost in disappointment? Is it to symbolize the futility of the deed, cause its a cycle and the world will go to shit again anyways? Or is the unkindled one too late? Or maybe this time the cycle broke and you cant link the flame?
I think it's because linking the fire is just a band-aid. When Gwyn linked it caused a huge explosion that scorched the silver knights. Yhorm linking the fire incinerated the profaned capital. If an age of dark is entered flames will eventually appear in the darkness, signalling that regardless of what a firelinker does the dark->fire->dark->fire cycle will repeat. Linking the fire is just buying time but each time the effect of linking is diminished. Letting the world enter an age of dark will eventually let it enter a full power age of fire, it's just people like Gwyn, Chosen Undead, Yhorm, ect won't be around to see the next age of fire. Which is why they struggle to futilely link it.
>>335774306
>casual reminder that I write on fanfiction.net
k
>>335781690
;-;
>>335774306
BUT IT'S JUST A THEORY
>>335781101
Right but if Kaathe wanted you to usurp, why even have the betrayal ending at all? It doesn't let the flame even necessarily die since you just give it a new host. You take it in but don't just sit there like kindling. I guess it makes sense in a dark souls "fill in the dotted lines" way but the idea of handwaving it as Kaathe's machinations doesn't sit with me. It >>335781346 makes perfect sense though so it's probably just my own preference or subjective dislike and not an objective problem with it.
Hell maybe there's four endings you can consider. Link the flame, snuff the flame, 'ash seeketh embers' with you offering the fire to the dark sign after snuff the flame yet not letting the firekeeper snuff it out, and usurp the flame. Ash seeketh embers could be the 'fuck you imma do what I want' angle. Or it's some kind of cop-out from betrayal and the end of dark. I can't help but get furtive pygmy feelings with the ending pose even if it isn't what the furtive pygmy did at all.
And I still think something is amiss with the untended shrines. No little humanities floating around, not a single abyssal creature instead just black knights and Gundyr is actually fully human and not ink-dragon corrupted. The only abyssal thing is Artorias' gear.
>>335781446
Two.
>>335781696
>>335781708
>>335781736
Fuck, for some reason I assumed he was some super hardcore dude kept at the very bottom of the Irithyll Dungeon because of how dangerous he was.
>>335781798
Yeah it was really poorly done. I think he has a huge circle of dead knight corpses around him but they dropped the ball for some great encounter there.
>>335781798
He says deepest cell in Lothric.
Irithyll isn't Lothric. In fact the Antipope Sully is at war with Lothric and sends his mutated Outrider knights there to fuck shit up.
>>335779364
Why don't people just hide the HUD for these kinds of screenshots? Hell, turn it to Auto and it hides itself when you're not in combat.
>>335781793
I was really hoping for a lot more abyss shit in this game since we're supposed to be so very close to the Age of Dark, what with the flame about to die. It was so weird to me how very few liquid serpent enemies you see, and how non-relevant the flying wood demons in Lothric Castle are.
My guess is that will be relegated to the DLC. Who knows?
>>335781798
To be fair, Dick Wraiths are nothing to be fucked with in this game. I have no idea why From gave them 900 Poise.
>>335781946
There was also supposed to be large abyssal structures all over the world, but it was cut like many other things
>>335781946
Well the cathedral of the deep was all abyss.
The random undead were letting their humanity run wild; turning into snek monsters.
Aldritch is a literal walking abyss-fetishist.
But I guess that it will be in the DLC. With the age of fire winding down into chaos the dark has nothing to do but wait.
>>335781946
Probably. Then again, From actually makes some pretty fucking solid DLC so I'm not gonna complain.
>>335781870
Yeah I liked that part about the high wall. I couldn't quite tell if there had been a war when the kingdoms were prospering and now they had all just risen as undead and continued to fight, or if some other undead kingdom had invaded a undead kingdom.
Didn't make much sense to me, but it was cool.
>>335782004
I really wish Dark Souls 3 would have taken longer to come out if it meant getting a more complete experience.
>>335781793
Betrayal ending is just the Ashen One refusing to be anyone else's puppet, Ludleth's or Kaathe's, doesn't matter.
It's just you and your waifu saying a big final fuck you to the world and retiring from the whole world-saving hoax.
>>335782041
Why were there dragons around lothric
why were they corrupted with abyss snakes in their feet.
WHAT WERE THE FLOATING TREE DRAGONS
>>335782032
I thought they were tapping into something similar to the Abyss, but different.
It seems like in multiple item descriptions they make it a point to refer to it as The Deep, rather than The Dark or The Abyss.
Reminder that cinder is firewood in the japanese game. So unfit to be cinder means unfit to be fuel.
Cinders of a lord=Firewood of a lord=fuel for the fire (from/of a lord)
Also, wth happened to the Epitaphs in the pre-release? The little grave like things from Bloodborne with lore notes?
>>335779768
>>335780958
Pretty sure ledleth is acting as a soulfeeder.
We outright hand off to him the strongest souls around and i'm guessing he's probably only using some of their strength to pull out a weapon.
He even claims that he'll be resurrected and turned giant when all things are done.
>>335782097
See now I thought the dragons were with the Lothric knights. I recall seeing statues of dragons along the high wall. So I assumed Lothric had knights and dragons.
If not, that means it was some hyper 3 way battle going on.
>>335782032
>>335782113
Deep and Abyss are different. The Deep is described as some plane of existence that was once peaceful and serene until it became infested by horrible monsters. Deep magics and Abyss magics are each described as either Deep or Abyss, showing a clear difference.
>>335782113
Yeah I don't get the deep at all. I'm just going to go with dark creepy Lovecraftian reference magic.
>>335782113
They're the same thing just with different terms as its a different land with new words.
The deep performs identically to the abyss. The dark is the state of the world after the fire, and the abyss is the form of the dark in the age of fire.
I wonder how less shitty the world is when the age of fire is at it's peak.
Also, is there even anyone left to enjoy this age of fire if you choose that ending? It seems everyone's undead, unkindled or hollow already.
Are there even any "normal" humans left?
>>335782097
>Why were there dragons around lothric
If you read the Lothric knight gear description it says Lothric kingdom once hunted dragons (or more probably wyverns), but since then they've managed to domesticate them.
>why were they corrupted with abyss snakes in their feet
Abyss snakes just don't care if you're Gundyr, a regular hollow or a drake.
>WHAT WERE THE FLOATING TREE DRAGONS
Remember the praying hollows turning into trees in the first area?
That's their final form.
>>335782150
>He even claims that he'll be resurrected and turned giant when all things are done.
You fucking dumbass
What's the point of going around and killing all the lords if you choose to let the flame die in the end?
>>335782097
>>335782161
Pretty sure it's said that Lothric used to slay the drakes until they learned to tame them. The Pus of Man leaking out of them probably means they have Humanity within them that's going haywire. Either drakes have Humanity naturally, or Oceiros infused them with it in his crazy Seath experiments.
>>335782260
>Thats their final form.
Yeah I know but what is the next step?
Do they turn into fully-fledged dragons over-time as the age of dark settles?
I mean they're immortal now and fly, its not such a reach given the dragons connection to trees in general.
>>335782257
>when the age of fire is at it's peak
It's humans slaving under "gods".
>>335781793
Not to samefag but checking the fextralife comments reminded me to the fact that usurping the flame has you do so with the dark souls like >>335781226 said. So if you haven't done that questline you have no dark sigil and no humanity when you snuff out the flame. So perhaps instead of the human age of darkness with the abyss it's some other kind of darkness. Thus the untended shrine, the black knights. Gundyr being normal and not mutated.
So if Kaathe either really does have humanity's interests at heart (topkek) or needs humanity to achieve the age of dark he needs you to not be an ashen one but a dark-sigil hollow/human.
Problem there is the dark-sigil looking sun that exists in your "Ashes seeketh ember" ending
>>335782150
>>resurrected and turned giant
> there are people actually this retarded
How do you manage to breathe?
>>335782257
You're unkindled so you only delay the inevitable for a brief time.
Its like keeping the world on bare minimum life support, but they'll still eventually die.
>>335782315
No. They're called pilgrim butterflies.
Not sure what's their goal is. Fly to the fucking sun maybe? Who knows.
"Pilgrim" in their name echoes with pilgrims of Londor, who went to Lothric to die. Maybe the human-tree-butterflies pursue the same goal - to find the true death.
>>335779658
who was he a big guy for, HMMM??
>>335782083
Yeah but you kill your waifu and step on her head. Maybe it's some kinky shit but I dunno.
>>335782191
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Deep+Soul
Deep soul is "souls which dwell from the deep" but also "fires dark soul dregs".
But Aldritch's soul says: "When Aldrich ruminated on the fading of the fire, it inspired visions of a coming age of the deep sea. He knew the path would be arduous, but he had no fear. He would devour the gods himself."Aldritch is like Leto II Atredies and the Golden path.
Wouldn't work in a game context unless they wanted to go crazy with something drastically different but I can dig the idea of the age of the deep sea becoming the new age. But some say it's a translation error and deep sea = abyss.
>>335782438
>Pilgrims of Londor
Thats it. Both have long necks. And it gives clerics and pilgrims catherpillar look so they can sprout wings.
>>335774306
Ludleth is actually the soulfeeder, and he actually eats all the boss souls you give him and just gives you cheap chinese bootleg weapons which is why moonlight sword is split damage
He also singlehandedly disabled poise
>abyss snakes
this shit was in the leak, DLC explaining the abyss everywhere?
>>335782731
>coming age of the deep sea
Aldrich dreamed of being a boss in bloodborne
>aldrich
>eldritch
>geddit
>>335782150
This is the most retarded post I've seen in this game
>>335782286
My thoughts to. Why can't I tell the Prince I won't link the fire and leave him alone
>>335774306
What if Ludleth is Ornstein?
>>335782770
>which is why moonlight sword is split damage
Oceiros' souls says that in the end he couldn't find the true moonlight/Seath's power or whatever.
>>335782865
What if the Firekeeper is Smough?
>>335782770
OP here.
I was actually more of the theory that since Ludleth holds both the Firekeeper, the Lords of Cinder, and the player character prisoner, as well as being the one who created this new Firelink shrine, that the Soulkeeper is actually the Handmaiden.
He has the Soul of the Soulkeeper. The Handmaiden does jack all but talk about wanting more souls.
>>335782910
What if you are Smough?
>>335782286
>if you choose to let the flame die in the end
Can't let anyone else do that and link the fire.
>>335782925
She talks about ash and is an illusion but you're fucking retarded
>>335782959
This illusion shit is getting out of hand
>tfw you picked pyromancer
>get invaded
>none of your spells have a ghost of a chance of hitting anything because they're slow as fuck
jokes on me for thinking throwing fire was cool I guess
>It's another "people that want you to link the flame just wants to manipulate you for whatever reason even if he dies when you do so he doesn't actually gain anything from it" theory
And then people go hollow so they can suck Kaathe's dick while fucking the whole world.
>>335782286
maybe your dude made up his mind at the final moment, as it should be imo, till then he is filled with visions of grandeur, becoming the world saving hero and all
>>335783020
>Casting any spells in Dark Souls 3
do i have bad news for you lad
>>335783043
Maybe Kaathe is actually just someone else's dick?
>>335777682
The unkindle are undead that has been cured of hollowing
>>335783089
...I'm guessing all the spell types are equally poor?
>>335782731
Deep sea environments in a souls setting would be fucking terrifying.
Back when playing ds1 I remember spotting Ash Lake from up above in some location (this before I discovered the entrance to it) and the whole area seemed to be underwater, it got me thinking about when the world was all archtrees and oceans and the utter bullshit that must have lived in those oceans.
Just imagine being undead in some deep giant underwater trench full of horrors nibbling on you in complete darkness, the pressure constantly crushing you while you permanently drown. That shit is worse than the abyss.
what happened to humanity, that seemed like it was pretty important in the first game.
i actually tried to go through and kindle all the fires to max like the clerics but i guess you can only max kindle 3 at a time.
>>335783089
spells and miracles are fine mate it just From need to add a ng+ ring which buffs magic/miracles up to 32% so you don't need to waste 2 slots for this.
>>335777869
Are you retarded? Youre agreeing with him while trying to make him look dumb
The system in DS3 is set up so that people with powerful souls who linked the flame in the past can link the flame again as the flames fade.
Burning your soul does indeed diminish it, but it flares up again as the first flame fades. You absorb souls when you kill enemies. As such when the world is dying, the lords absorb the souls of the dying world and once again they rise ready to link the flame once again. Then the bell tolls and the lords rise to have themselves be sacrificed again to keep the world going. After linking the flame, they'll be put back in their graves to await the end of the cycle.
>>335783471
And why did they run from their thrones exactly?
>>335783559
Simple. They didn't want to be sacrificed despite that being their purpose. Only Ludleth faces his fate willingly. Possibly because in one timeline he too resisted and saw what happened.
>>335783559
Yhorm and Abyss Watchers were corrupted by the Abyss.
Aldritch had that vision of a deep sea or something. That and he wanted to snack on the Gods.
The princes see the futility of linking the fire and want it to end.
>>335782731
Then again the deep gem states "There is a darkness that lies beyond human ken." Also the spider-dudes are "Deep Accursed" http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Deep+Accursed
>>335782848
>aldrich
>Eldritch
DEEPEST LORE.
But yeah for my speculating I can buy the idea that Aldritch's deep was something other than the abyss. And it helps to clarify the difference between the betrayal ending and Kaathe's darkness ending. After all in DS1 you didn't snuff out the flame - you just walked out and met all your serpent buddies and ruled a dying world giving way to darkness. Which makes me think the four endings become:
Link the fire - either the cycle continues or it's too far gone.
Snuff out the fire - Aldritch's age of the deep sea comes.
Betrayal and then kill the firekeeper - lol I dunno
Usurp the Fire - Kaathe's ending.
If you want to go out on an even greater stretch consider the sometimes association of serpents and the ocean. Might be Kaathe is playing for that age of the deep ocean, but I don't think that's the case.
It's leddit but the compilation of Aldritch's deep stuff is interesting: https://m.reddit.com/r/darksouls3/comments/4g7ssi/lore_what_is_the_deep_spoilers/
Did Dark Souls 2 have any cool lore talk when it came out or was it all "this is all fucking horse shit"?
>>335783915
It did, outside of the baby-tears threads that it wasn't as good as DS1.
It was fairly interesting lore-wise as well.
>>335783739
the only water thing I can think of in DkS is the flooded New Londo
>>335783915
>Did Dark Souls 2 have any cool lore talk when it came out or was it all "this is all fucking horse shit"?
I think the DLC had all the cool parts.
>enter the kings memory
>aldia storyline
>reject the cycle ending
>>335783932
Irina is Kaathe
>have to get to rank 2 in moundmakers for that final pyromancy
Urgh.
>>335783915
It had a bit, it was decent but most people were annoyed that nothing was mentioned about the first game and the reoccuring stuff like dragonslayer and Havel armor didn't have any links at all really
>>335784148
and Havel in DS3 is any different how ?
So, I just finished Untended Graves and I have so, so much questions. Mainly about Artorias.
Why does the shopkeeper has Artorias armor set to sell? Why is the hornet ring (Lord's Blade Ciaran) next to Artorias sword? Was the tomb that Artorias sword is resting Artorias grave?
Or all this is related to the fucker on the Firelink Shrine that abandoned the Abyss Watchers?
>>335784193
Havel's armor =/= Havel
>>335784223
Considering From doesn't even know, it's up to you whether you try and make a theory that explains it or just leave it as fanservice/no thought put into lore.
>>335783739
Then again the description of the deep protection suggests that darned abyssal corruption. "Miracle taught to inaugurated deacons of the Cathedral of the Deep. The deep was originally a peaceful and sacred place, but became the final rest for many abhorrent things. This tale of the Deep offers protection for those who worship amidst those horrors."
Though it might be referring to 'The [cathedral of the deep]' rather than 'the deep sea'.
And the other big thing being the deep uses human dregs and not humanity.
It's clearly lovecraftian bloodborne-y eldritch shit but maybe I'm making the mistake of thinking the dark is humanity. I know Manus is the father of the abyss, but darkness existed before pygmy found his fire. And like the deep4u gem states there is a darkness beyond human understanding and human experience. Humanity may be a part of the darkness but it is not darkness in itself.
>>335784223
I dunno nigga, the trickier question is if the shopkeeper has Artorias' shit (and implies an abyssal connection) why is there 0 abyssal shit there? Even Gundyr, who had abyssal stuff when you first met him, is normal.
>>335784223
>Or all this is related to the fucker on the Firelink Shrine that abandoned the Abyss Watchers?
I think that's pretty clear cut, he's just a shitcunt.
Everything else is a fuckin' mystery, maybe the abyss is there or maybe Ciaran just created another grave after the CU gave up the soul.
Also, why the absence of Ciaran's set is questionable too
>>335784223
There's also two of Gwyn's knight taking a quick break over there, you know why?
Because From thought it would be cool to have some rare stuff for those who found it out.
>>335774413
the crown is practically the same except burned and a bit molten
>>335783932
>tfw I slowly remember even in this darkened abyss, surrounded by mindless beasts,I'm not Lord Anthony Birchwood
>>335779364
Rosaria is Gertrude you mongoloid, her item description says she is one of the heavenly children spoken of in the Gwynevere ring description and it specifically says the she lost the ability to speak and see.
So, is the "shards of the dark soul" business still a thing?
I hope one of the dlc will explain the whole Aldia shit.
He's pretty much the reason for Lothric not linking the flame and you have then to deal with it.
>>335781916
>auto
good job retard so when you more need it you will throw a knife instead of chugging estus, enjoy death fagalord
>>335784423
>Even Gundyr, who had abyssal stuff when you first met him, is normal.
the gundyr you meet at the start of the game is the champion gundyr a long time after you beat him in untended graves
So is untended graves:
the past
the future
alternate timeline
just an illusion?
>>335784894
the future thats why you get Irina eyes when she became a firekeeper.
>>335774306
>this gay fucking fanfiction
someone call vaati he'll lap this shit up
>>335784894
it's the future but also the past
>>335784423
>>335784223
The whole thing with Untended Graves is that it is suppose to be the original firelink shrine, which was consumed by the Abyss. This is just a speculation on my part but I think it was the serpents that fell the original firelink, since doing so would get rid of any unkindled looking to link the fire after they maybe crippled Prince Lothric. Ludleth recreated the firelink shrine and every important npc within using his lord soul to maintain which why he is so powerless compare to rest of Lords of Cinder.
The fact you get Artorias armor there is Miyazaki's way of driving the point home that this the Abyss.
>>335784730
Gertrude is literally in a cage and is a hollow corpse. What a fucking retard you are?!
>>335785068
you were supposed to fight gundyr in the Ocerios room.
>>335785128
Given how old that leak is they likely hadn't finished oceiros.
>>335782717
>locon
my nigga
>>335779843
What a shitty tumblrtier theory.
>>335785128
Is this 2h sword from your picture in the game?
>>335782717
gonna need a sauce on that
>>335785068
It makes sense to be the abyss given nigger blackness and artorias' gear, but then there's the whole "not a single bit of abyssal monsters". No floating humanity, but above all no abyssal monsters. We get abyssal shit everywhere else the abyss has touched but there. Either it's at a point of death and darkness that even the abyssal stuff has died or >>335784572 >Because From thought it would be cool to have some rare stuff for those who found it out. Or I'd say the abyss can be more than just humanity except for Manus being the father of it.
>>335784883
Right but if Gundyr should have been infested with some ink black monster thing it would have been in the untended graves, if the untended graves were the abyss.
>>335774306
What the fuck am I even reading.
>>335783014
It's nanomachines tier writing. I ignore everything past DaS1. 2 and 3 are not canon and never will be for me.
>>335784894
Stuff you buy from the old hag in untended graves disappears from the hag's stock in the proper firelink
Anyone actually knows whats the deal with the giant black monsters?
>explode from some undead in lothric
>somehow control wyverns
>One comes out of the first boss
>Lots in the Garden
I just dont get what are they doing there. Havent found anything that would tell me just what is their significance.
Friendly reminder that the Dark Soul was born from the first flame along with the Life Soul, Death Soul and Light Soul.
When the first flame faded, so did Gwyns sunlight, so did the Witch of Izaliths flame sorcery and so does the Humanity bequeathed from the Dark Soul recede from all humans, reverting them back into the form they had before the Furtive Pygmy acquired the Dark Soul.
The age of fire benefits all the inheritors of the lord souls, smothering the flame and letting it die does no one no good.
P.S. The Abyss has nothing to do with the Dark Soul or humanity, everything we've seen so far involving the Abyss confirms this. Humans cannot traverse the Abyss, the only beings that can are the primordial serpents. And it's the primordial serpent Kaathe who wants you to fuck over the world and bring about the age of dark. Basically bringing about the Abyss into the physical worldand turning every face into a cock sleeve for him to rule over.
If Dark Souls has an over arching antagonist, it's Kaathe. Why the fuck would you believe a serpent chilling out in the abyss ( of all places) in a city that's cursed with ghosts and eternally condemned darkwraithes stealing humanity from humans when he says he has humanities best interests at heart.
>>335784795
You mean like Nashandra and shit?
Kind of. it is implied karla is one.
>>335783739
So what is the original armor of the Fallen Knight set? The description keeps making me think you're supposed to recognise it from somewhere.
>>335784795
That's what humanity is, yeah.
Embers are burnt effigies, so whether we actually have humanity at all is up to debate.
>>335776394
I don't care how full of shit OP is, I really hate how any speculation around here is put down as M-MUH VAATI.
>>335786992
>The age of fire benefits all the inheritors of the lord souls, smothering the flame and letting it die does no one no good.
Enh, seems like the extinguish ending will just result in the flame coming back naturally, anyway.
>>335782837
Daily reminder that in DLC we will see this scene. Also, Wolnir will be an NPC
>>335786992
>The Abyss has nothing to do with the Dark Soul or humanity, everything we've seen so far involving the Abyss confirms this.
Monumental said:
"A soul is the essence with which living things comprehend the world around them.
When one loses the Soul, one loses the mind; a land barren of Souls is absorbed by fog and banished to the infinite darkness.
The Old One is a bottomless pit of Nothingness, with an insatiable appetite for the souls collected by its faithful Demons.
The Old One's very nature cannot be fathomed by the living."
My headcanon just wont let the fact that the Dark Souls nations are lands lost in the colourless fog die, it just wont. There's just too much logic involved that trying to make it up as a single story ONLY starting with Dark Souls makes no sense.
>>335787317
It brings about the age of Dark, which is what Kaathe is trying to manipulate you into doing. Of course it won't last forever, but you can bet it's not fucking good.
The Abyss is where the primordial serpents live, bring a literal dark Abyss into existence and you sign every living things life away to get cucked by a fucking snake.
>>335784865
>He doesn't remember what his currently equipped item, armor and spell
How's that shit brain treating you so far?
>>335786992
>The Abyss has nothing to do with the Dark Soul or humanity
Wrong on all levels.
First Flame created disparity. The Dark is the polar opposite of the Fire/Light. And the Abyss is it's ultimate manifestation.
Humans have Humanity and Humanity is a fragment of the Dark Soul. Just like Gwyn shared part of his Soul with others, Pigmy shared his Dark Soul with humans. It's not inherently something benefitial but it is what defines being human in the Dark Soul universe. It doesn't mean we are friends of the Abyss or that it shouldn't hurt us, just like a flame can still burn the hand that created it.
>>335783739
If the Deep ISN'T actually the Abyss/Dark then it's near darn identical to it.
The deep soul spells even have the same property as dark sorceries from Oolacile.
>>335787559
>It brings about the age of Dark, which is what Kaathe is trying to manipulate you into doing.
In 1, sure, but he's clearly moved on to Usurption.
>>335787663
His end goal is still the same.
Usurpation is just the most effective method in achieving the age of dark. Fire keeper said ending the fire doesn't actually end all the fire. She still sees small embers within the dark when you give him the eyes.
>>335787770
That's literally what I said, that the flame will return.
>>335787620
Explain why humans can't traverse the Abyss
The Furtive Pygmy found the Dark Soul within the first flame, the Abyss is something entirely different. When the flame fades, so does a humans Humanity- which IS the Dark Soul.
The Age of Dark = Every human a hollow.
The Age of Fire = Every human stays a human
Kaathe please go
>>335787663
Kaathe knows the Age of Dark isn't permanent, Usurption is his next and final goal. An Age of Dark without end.
>>335786923
They look vaguely like serpents like I guess they're related to them and the abyss. The serpents seem to worshiped in Lorthric, so they might have cursed/blessed some hollows with ability to transform.
Also I believe the one in the consumed king's garden weren't guarding him as more as they were guarding the entrance to Unintended Graves. Dunno about the Ludex though, likely has something to due with his true form being locked in Untended Graves.
>>335787879
I'm not defending anything. Just stating what it is.
Abyss is pure Dark, it doesn't inherently means it shouldn't hurt us.
The game plays with the duality of the human condition: we have Dark in us but we are also creatures of Light. We need both.
At Pure Light, you are not human.
At Pure Dark, you are not human.
Only with both. And the Abyss is pure dark.
>>335787770
Kaathe just wants help humans to take what is rightfully theirs. He has no ulterior motives, he is your friend.
>>335780906
>But its more likely they have far more power in the dark, and want the world to turn to this state.
then why does frampt insist on linking the fire, even apparently manipulating lothric to producing future lords of cinder?
No.
Ludleth took the flame, but then used it to create the alternate firelink shrine where he could summon you.
He's the one that mentions killing the firekeeper for the secret cinematic.
>>335782908
so it'll be dlc then
>>335787879
>Explain why humans can't traverse the Abyss
Humans can't traverse the Abyss because they get tang'd. Abyss is a huge pool of raw humanity. Those who enter it without protection just merge with it.
>The Age of Dark = Every human a hollow.
>The Age of Fire = Every human stays a human
That's just Frampt's lies. The earliest game in the series, Dark Souls 1, takes place already after Gwyn performed an unholy ritual of rekindling the Flame. The Flame was supposed to go out naturally.
This is why humans turn hollow. Not because the Age of Fire is ending, but because the Age of Dark didn't come when it was supposed to.
>>335774306
>creates a second timeline
Stopped reading there. This shit should pertain to multiplayer components only.
Its the same cop out as saying the main character in Dark Souls 1 didn't link the flame but Solaire did instead.
Wow 2 sequels later and nothing has been proven. This is fan fiction tier. As far as I know through Ludleth you can get the Crystal Sage's Rapier and this helps immensely in getting the 30 Concords. What a bro.
Did anyone miss the Spotted Whip by not summoning Cuculus? I listened to neo-/v/ once again and I missed the weapon and Cornyx' armor.
How does she fare against the Demon King in NG+? Can anyone weigh in?
>>335788038
Humanity is pure dark. Hence the /dark soul/
The Abyss isn't a part of the Dark Soul, the Abyss is something sinister and evil and entirely different.
It's a place where only on the serpents reside, and funnily enough. The Serpent we meet there wants us to screw the pooch and dick over everyone. You aren't the first, look what happened to New Londo and the four kings.
>>335788187
I like to think it was Kaathe who was manipulating the events in Lothric to produce a future Lord of Cinder but crippled him before he was even born which more or less lead into the event of DaS3
>>335780080
>The age of dark is the age of man, not the age of dragons
or it could be one big misinterpretation. man's true form is hollow. what was everyone like before the fire? just mindless shambling hollows. age of man.
