The shills aren't working today it seems.
So it looks like shit. Just more WoD 2.0. The film also looks like a 1/10 CGI shitfest that will be completely forgotten in 2 months.
The only "positive" buzz about Warcraft now is people wanting legacy servers, which of course is a flawed desire for obvious reasons.
Did you think WoW would die in such an awful way; through aggressive purposeful neglect? It's almost as if blizzard wants to kill the game so they can stop working on it.
>>335481963
What's wrong with others wanting the old game? It's where the most profit was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzT8UzO1zGQ
Im honestly not even memeing think that Legion is a step in the right direction towards the pre-Cata era due to CM emphasis, world quests, and treasures.
Downsides are: They're trying their hardest to justify class halls existing, lore weapons were a bad method of adding secondary progression, garrison mission board is back in SOME form.
>>335482532
Probably because legacy servers can never get new content. What I'd rather see pushed for is a restart of WoW where a dev team is forced to stay with vanilla design values and then begin creating new content and expansions that don't overhaul the game every couple years and instead focus on bringing lots of content.
From the sounds of it, Legion sounds like its going to be a slightly refined version of WoD. AKA still shit. It doesn't matter how much they 'tweak' garrisons, it's still the same unfun drag and drop facebook tier minigame it was in WoD.
>>335483258
I see your point yeah, that is an issue. It'll eventually become stale and you'll only have the dedicated fans playing it with no real profit increase.
They should go back to which expansion made the most profit(Lich King from the video I linked) and see what they can do to expand on that, since that's where the most demand is.
>>335483258
>legacy servers can never get new content
Old School Runescape disagrees
>>335483741
Different demographic, different standards.
>>335481963
As bad of an idea as Legacy servers are, if they don't do it soon, the game is going to fall off pretty hard. It won't die outright, but Legion looks like shit. Like.. not "muh opinions", but actually shit. Everything I've seen so far looks like features, not content. Do they really think people are going to be satisfied with paying full price for a bunch of features?
Unless there's some huge amount of content they're not telling people, only the die hard are going to remain. Plenty of their current fanbase are disposable soccer moms and shitters who only play it because Blizzard is a literal meme at this point in their existence.
Unless these people actually have something to play, they're going to find something better to do. Like kill themselves
>>335483741
That's a reboot. What nost fags are whining for is Vanilla and only Vanilla. They don't even fathom the idea that having just that forever can end up getting boring.
>>335481963
>The shills aren't working today it seems.
But the haterbots are
>>335483950
>different demographic
not really, its still people who want to play an MMORPG rather than a casualized shitfest
its not about the content, but the core gameplay systems and progression that have changed.
>>335484117
I would rather have a casualized shitfest then a badly designed shitfest.
>>335484079
>what nost fags are whining for is vanilla and vanilla only
proof? Or right, you dont have any, because Nost players wouldnt mind seeing more content added as long as it didnt 1)fuck up current progression paths and 2)cater to shitters and casuals
>>335484027
I can tell you being in Legion Alpha, that there's no inkling of non-raiding content besides spamming world quests. It might be a nice change from WoD's dead world but people are going to burn out FAST. The problem is the quality of the content is low and isn't engaging at all.
>>335484235
Of course you would reddit
>badly designed
casual streamlining in an RPG is the peak of bad design. Being able to queue solo for every single thing in a fucking MMO is bad design.
>>335484249
And what content would that be? Other then expansions
>>335484249
>2)cater to shitters and casuals
That's literally all Blizzard does since BC in all their games. So no, please don't add content.
>>335484249
If they were asking for the possibility for new content they'd be asking for a complete WoW reboot. They just want their precious vanilla from when they were 12 so they can live in nostalgia for a while.
>>335484235
Howabout just don't deal with the shitfest?
You don't need to play this game. And if you're calling it a shitfest, then why the fuck are you playing it?
>>335484412
>live in nostalgia for a while
Jokes on you, I started playing in BC and never experienced vanilla. Still had a blast on Nost and more fun than on retail since mid wotlk.
It was a good game and there is a reason why it became so big.
>>335484413
Because I still like wow and don't consider it a shitfest
>>335484412
because a reboot wouldnt go back to the old gameplay with modern blizz in control
it needs to start at vanilla and build from there.
>>335484413
Because /v/ secretly loves shit.
>>335484569
literally had nothing to do with what I said. But nice blog where do I unsubscribe?
>>335484694
A reboot would start at vanilla. Legacy = Vanilla forever. Reboot = start at vanilla then go from there but keep vanilla standards.
>it's obvious Blizzard wants to kill their golden sheep
Yes and Valve are sick of CSGO, TF2 and Dota printing them all that annoying money.
>>335484383
Like I said, assuming blizzard was actually a decent fucking company people wouldnt be against new content. Hardline purists are few and far between
>>335484380
I never said they couldnt add expansions, but it would need to be something that doesnt invalidate every existing inch of the game like TBC did.
OSRS added a new continent, new spells, and new quests. It didnt change anything substantial but did offer more to do
>>335484639
>I dont consider sit in garrisons and play facebook games a shitfest
how? No really, how can you have such awful taste?
>>335484842
Well they're sure trying their best to make sure everyone leaves forever.
>>335484293
That's exactly what I thought it was. They might as well release raids every month for 10 bucks each if they're just gonna do that.
If they don't do something drastic, like catering to the nostalgia crowd just to bring back some 100k subs, they're going to lose alot.
And honestly, that nostalgia crowd is probably going to bring in new people because they never got to play old WoW with them for whatever reason. Those people are probably going to hate vanilla and try out the newer iteration. That's new blood. And that's what they need.
>>335484639
Then don't call it a shitfest you shitposting fuck.
>>335485001
As opposed to sitting in Ironforge doing nothing?
And I like having my own fort
>>335485297
>I like having my own fort
>I like playing COMMANDER even though I never did anything amazing
sasuga modern wow player
>>335485509
I'm a war hero
>>335484293
I really thought that they had some unannounced features but it's looking like world quests, garrison campaign 2.0 and juicing up your professions to consume less mats is all there's going to be outside of raiding.
The mythic dungeons look good and the raids are looking solid but I don't see how everything else isn't going to dry up after the first 4-6 weeks.
>>335485612
Are you really, though?
Canonically, the players never did much.
Off the top of my head, the only big bads that the players can take credit for are shit tier Ragnaros, C'Thun, Yogg, and Illidan.
Most everyone else is taken out by the 'real' heroes, like Fordring.
>those people who actually try to argue that THEIR character was the one that killed Vanilla bosses through to WoD in the canon
>implying anybody but RPers cares about the lore
>when RPers don't even make such outlandish claims
I really don't get this whole ''YOU ARE THE BEST'' mentality.
>>335486881
Canonically the players did a lot, that's why we have a garrison and are getting artefact weapons.
Eh honestly have been playing the alpha and it's already feels 10 times better than wotlk let alone wod
>>335486881
I dunno about that other guy, but I killed Thrall.
Three times, in fact.
>>335487101
and it's why WoW is shit now.
The best MMO's you're just a nameless grunt, at most part of an elite group of warriors (The group of warriors that assisted in killing the Lich King for example), but never "The Hero". That's shit that should be reserved for single player games.
>>335487101
>that's why we have a garrison and are getting artefact weapons
But that's where the dichotomy is most present - at best, the player characters are simply amoral mercenaries. The connection to the Horde/Alliance was mainly for PvP purposes. So why are you all of a sudden chosen as some sort of military commander?
These are the same characters that brought toilet paper to some guy locked in a shitter. They're not heroes, they're retards who do anything for a buck.
>>335484092
BIDF detected
Legion looks bad for the same reason Diablo 3 ROS is bad.
Designing things to be super fun and awesome for 2 weeks. What happens in week 20?
>>335487469
this
so much this
how do you even push Every player is the hero in an MMO without having somebody stop you saying "uh, that's world breaking everyone can't be the hero"
Wanted to pre-order Legion but decided not to because of the shit they pulled. This is no longer the consistent type of WoW I initially signed up for.
>>335484412
Do you really trust modern Blizz to reboot WoW? Because I don't.
>>335489436
not at all. I think WoW should be left alone. Let it die and let it be.
>>335486881
Maiev and Akama can take credit for Illidan, and he didn't even stay dead. C'thun and Yogg are still technically alive as well, so they don't really count.
>>335489535
That certainly seems better than the alternative, but I wouldn't mind legacy servers, or at least private servers that don't have to worry about being shut down by Blizz.
>>335488665
>forcing casters to cast from their weapon
wait what?
>>335489616
>Maiev and Akama can take credit for Illidan
The book (please don't laugh) describes a bunch of nameless guys working for Akama who came in and helped Maiev beat the fuck out of Illidan.
I think the warlock green fire quest also makes some sort of reference.
>Be fucking around trying to get a Scarlet Tabard to drop
>go outside
>Brill is under attack!
>BUILDWALL.PNG
>czech out Brill
>Nobody there
>Go back to SM
>Notice a bunch of lowbie Alliance fags trolling around the stone
>REMOVE GOAT
>gank a bunch of these little shits because I'm an asshole
>Run inside SM
>Notice a capped Spriest
>Contemplate running inside the instance to avoid getting raped (My gear is shit kek)
>Decide to not be "that guy"
>Get raped
>Come back
>Moonkin running around waiting for someone presumably
>Attack
>Get raped
Was this the right thing to do? I just felt compelled to fight real threats because I didn't want to just be a ganking scumbag.
>>335487469
>>335488638
Then you would be bitching if the game's world still saw you as a disposable grunt after help kill off Illidan, Lich King, Edgewing, etc.
Once you hit level 100, you should be considered Elite status.
>>335490007
Even in the book, the players are referred to as some nameless people who helped beat Illidan, not the heroes who killed them while Maiev and Akama looked on in awe. Modern WoW does wank the characters too much.
>>335481963
>The shills aren't working today it seems.
So, you decided to take up shilling duty it seems.
>>335490065
no. world pvp never existed outside of hillsbrad. every other time it was just gank squads
>>335484380
sailing skill
>>335484092
People calling others "haters" can only remind me of the episode of Gordon Ramsay's yelling-at-restaurant-owners show with the woman with borderline personality disorder. Amy's Baking Company.
Admittedly the reckless overuse of the word "shill" deflates the very real phenomenon of viral marketing, but then "hater" is the equal and opposite paranoid narcissism.
>>335481963
>It's almost as if blizzard wants to kill the game so they can stop working on it.
I called this back during Cata.
Then they put actual effort into MoP, but were planning on half assing WoD because Titan was on the way.
Then Titan got shit canned into Overjew, and they had nothing to show MMO wise except WoD, so they fucked themselves.
Legion is them trying hilariously to fix the damage.
Why are there so many shills promoting that TF2 clone on /v/?
>>335490191
So I should just be a dick and avoid all potential reprisal whenever possible?
>>335490095
most people didnt do any of those things though
at least not while current
>>335490469
Because even the shills know promoting Legion is pretty much an empty gesture at this point. They have a chance with Overwatch, though.
>>335484079
No they don't nostfags were on a progression server, which means it would add TBC and other xpacks if it ever gotten to that point and didn't get shut down.
>>335490134
>Modern WoW does wank the characters too much
Yeah, but sometimes they went too far in the other direction to make it seem like the players were irrelevant. Tirion Fordring stealing the spotlight at Icecrown comes to mind.
You don't need to make the players out to be big damn heroes - just acknowledge that a group of assholes broke into Arthas' home, killed his employees and stole all his shit.
>>335490514
Take what you can, give nothing back.
>>335483741
nostcucks would become enraged if they released even a single istance more, despite the fact that they played in a server with many QoL changes that wasn't blizzlike at all.
>>335490783
proof?
>>335490691
To be fair, Arthas did refer to the players as the greatest fighting force he had ever seen. Tirion somehow got in a lucky shot (that whole unholy ground thing they'd been talking about from the beginning suddenly meaning nothing) and the players delivered the final blows.
>>335490691
but it was acknowledged that others were there, the statue in Dalaran includes heroes besides Tirion
>>335490698
That's some real pirate shit right there! Arrgh, for the Horde matey!
>tfw the shipyard is boring as fuck
Part of the reason I really loved the old warcraft RTS was the ships. I wanna boteslut it up on the high seas, but no... Just dispatch missions desu
>>335490095
nope. I enjoy being a nameless grunt forever.
>>335490813
There were many threads were we talked about what's better for vanilla servers, either as is or with improvements like graphics new instances some qol etc. but most nostcucks didn't want any change.
>>335491125
This.
This is also part of the reason I despise garrisons, because my personal "fantasy" (or whatever the term is... Immersion?) involves being just some nameless wanderer. I don't want to be tied down by the expectations or obligations of regular society, nor do I want responsibility or burden of leadership. Pay me and I'll kill some monsters, then I'll be on my way out of town.
>>335491261
>some QoL
you mean piss all over the game again. Thats why people dont want it
>>335491261
I wouldn't mind some new instances on a Vanilla server, but no LFD/LFR
WotLK stats, itemization and balance.
Linear stat progression instead of exponential.
Clear distinction in raids, some only 10 man, some only 25, no heroic/mythic bullshit.
No raid/dungeon finder, or only something that groups you together but you still have to travel and organize yourself.
No flying, or time limited 'stamina' for flying mounts, you only use it when you really need to fly somewhere.
No garrisons.
No welfare loot, let people run around in blues if they are too lazy to put effort into shit.
That's all I want.
>>335491335
>Buff reagents
>good
I don't miss having like 4 bag slots devoted to symbols of kings or whatever the fuck they were
>>335483386
then you haven't read anything about Legion. It still looks like shit but they learned from WoD that people don't want facebook games. They added reasons to leave your class hall and quest even at end game levels which is a step in the right direction for me.
That being said
>demon hunters
>illidan is gud now
>more fel shit everywhere
>>335491467
literally a perfectly fine mechanic and fitting for an RPG
especially when you could get weaker effects without the reagent.
>>335491335
i'm against introducing QoL too, that wasn't the point of my post. They were enraged for every change, even making class more balanced. Believe it or not many people believe vanilla was literally perfect.
>>335481963
>The shills aren't working today it seems.
Yet here you are, feeling the need to shitpost.
Go play a video game bro, you'll feel better.
>>335491520
>they learned from WoD that people dont want facebook games
>thats why they are having class order hall missions that are part of progressing your artifact, acquiring offspec artifacts and Watcher says that some people like garrison mission gameplay
>>335491440
>WotLK stats, itemization and balance.
>Linear stat progression instead of exponential.
breddy good
>Clear distinction in raids, some only 10 man, some only 25, no heroic/mythic bullshit.
Pointless drivel
>No raid/dungeon finder, or only something that groups you together but you still have to travel and organize yourself.
Agreed
>No flying, or time limited 'stamina' for flying mounts, you only use it when you really need to fly somewhere.
Wouldn't mind if they limited the areas where it could be used but I honestly enjoy flying too much to agree entirely.
>No garrisons.
100% this
>No welfare loot, let people run around in blues if they are too lazy to put effort into shit.
I don't know how bad it is in WoD, I only just started playing again, but I liked in Wrath how easy it was to get an alt geared up to the previous tier. Made getting friends into the game much easier, fed my altoholic tendencies. Gear isn't the end all be all anyway, especially now that they have achievements.
I liked that they had hard mode titles and mount rewards for people who cleared content when it was current, like the black and plague proto drakes from Naxx, Undying/Immortal. They should reward people with shit like that for doing things when it's current and relevant, but needlessly gating people is pointless.
>>335491536
>Buffing every 5 minutes was compelling gameplay
I wasn't Jewish when it came to buffing, carrying around sacks of reagents is gay
>>335491440
So basically, you want The Burning Crusade.
TBC and Wrath were the height of WoW for a reason. Blizz hadn't yet started catering to convenience. They still believed, until the end of Wrath, that it was okay for players to have to spend some time getting a group of non-shitters together to do hard dungeons. They still believed that it was okay for players to have to go out into the world and collect the resources for their professions, populating the world with other players in the process. They still believed that it was okay for instances to require a little bit of exploration your first time around, rather than being straight-shot loot hallways. They still believed that it was okay for PvP to only mildly reward losing, if even that, and to require participation for anything at all.
They still trusted their players to actually give a shit about the game they were paying $15 a month to play.
>>335491520
>they learned from WoD that people don't want facebook games
>so they kept the facebook games
You know why that shit is still in? Because it's the absolute cheapest form of "content" that you can put in a game.
It's no coincidence that you can find the same type of shitty minigame in crappy F2P MMO's like Star Trek Online.
>>335491921
>I liked in wrath how it was super easy to gear up
no no no no no
catchup gear is fucking AIDS. It funnels the ENTIRE game into 1 patch. Right now, you arent even playing WoD, you are playing patch 6.2 because everything else is irrelevant. Its shit design and wastes content
>>335488665
>wanting to have selfheal on every class
fuck off stupid subhuman, thats exactly the reason why 5man dungeons and pvp are shit
>force to cast with weapon
???
Mark my words
Soon, Activision will buy out Blizzard, rebrand it to Activision-Irvine, and pump out shitty blizzard IP mobile garbage. Expect Murloc Crush (candy crush)
>>335492038
if you want to have an easier time buffing there is a price attached. I dont see an issue with that
>>335492083
This.
BC was the best. It was like a ladder to climb from heroics to SWP, step to step. If you were good or social, you could easily farm all heroics every day and gear up sanic fast from badges, if you was a casual eventually you got some good pieces of gear too that didnt go obsolete every patch.
Now every patch is a mandatory full gear reset with +30 itemlevel hikes. How the fuck is that casual or alt friendly? Its just an illusion of progress.
>>335492052
>until the end of Wrath
10m baby mode and welfare tier came in before that
>>335492052
>They still believed that it was okay for instances to require a little bit of exploration your first time around, rather than being straight-shot loot hallways
Wrath and TBC were absolutely filled with those straight-shot loot hallways, though.
They were fun, but definitely not complex.
>>335492495
Badge gearing is actually super fucking boring and there needed to be more unique ways to acquire gear than just dungeons and craft, but it was still a lot better since you actually progressed through everything
>>335487065
>killed Vanilla bosses through to WoD
not even that is true anymore
the fucking comics retconned it so it's varian that killed onyxia (1v1 mind you, he chopped off her head with his EDGY sword), theres some other similar bullshit but i stopped reading by that point
>>335492052
TBC was still imperfect, but yes, a mix of those two expensions would be the best.
>>335491921
I don't like the fact you can skip all previous raid content of the patch with catch up gear. It was already too easy in WotLK, if you roll an alt, you should run previous raids too.
If anything, it shouldn't be that easy to catch up to the current content. If we are entering tier 3 raid of the expansion, the best badge/points catch up gear should be just enough to start running tier 2 efficiently, but at the same time the number of those items should be limited to the point where running tier 1 is still helpful. Gearing gets easier, but not brainded 'jump into the newest raid within 2 days of reaching max level' easy.
>>335492578
Wrath apologists sicken me
Wrath dungeons were such a step down from TBC difficulty, and TBC was a step down from vanilla environment and layout
>>335483258
there's literally no need for new content in older expansions. vanilla alone will keep even hardcore players busy for at least a year or two if they really wan to see and clear everything (unless you go full neckbeard mode and literally play it 24/7 with one of those elite guilds that clears everything within a week or two of it coming out). the same goes for BC, and maybe to a lesser extent wotlk.
>>335492121
This, making every class semi-hybrids is autistic, rogues rocuperate or whatever is the worst offender, building up combo points to spend on a HoT, wtf?
>>335492862
Recuperate is actually super weak and was fine when it added energy regen
If Legion can be MoP 2.0 instead I'll be happy.
>>335492705
During TBC, Blizzard was still trying to figure out how to balance classes.
It wasn't the dungeons that became easier, it was the classes which became better.
Also The ICC instances were fucking GOAT. Some of the best dungeons in the entire game.
>>335492578
TBC was sort of okay because there were several hallways instances of the same theme nested together, they were supposed to be 'wings' of the same place and most of them were absolutely ball busting for most players.
It's kinda interesting how people always show preference towards vanilla, TBC, or WotLK given that they have different fundamentals. I think by the time Cataclysm came out Blizzard "figured out" how to package an expansion with the least effort possible and it shows by the fact that the last three expansions thus far have blurred together design-wise.
WoW is an old ass game and devs would rather move on than keep working on a dinosaur project. It's no surprise the subscriber number has stagnated: Blizzard is trying to make a game instead of an experience.
In the end it doesn't matter though. Despite low subs, year after year they have been breaking their profit records because middle-aged moms buy the shit out of pets and mounts and hardcore raiders pay server and faction transfer monthly because their guilds keep breaking apart.
>>335492578
Not saying they didn't exist, just that it was okay for things not like that to be in there. Steamvaults, for instance. Or just TBC/Wrath-era raid design in general, with a few exceptions (Nobody liked Trial of the Crusader).
>>335492519
Original 10-mans were not baby mode. Zul'aman was considerably more challenging, as a ten-man raid, than Gruul/Magtheridon as 25-man raids and arguably even parts of SSC/TK. Especially bear runs. Hell, I just wish they'd bring back something like that; a challenging, tightly-designed 10-man with a prestige award for successfully speedrunning it.
As for "welfare tier"; I assume you're referring to Justice when the badges were first introduced? Catchup mechanics aren't bad when you actually have to put in some work for them. Especially seeing as they served as a good fill-in for people that had absolutely shit luck on drops or had asshat raid leaders that refused to evenly distribute the loot for their class/type, harming the raid in the process.
What's better between Vanilla and TBC? i'm trying to decide if either roll on kronos or vengeance. I started with BC so i never played vanilla as it was.
>>335492972
class toolkit didnt change dramatically, blizzard just reduced the need for CC because characters were proportionally stronger, and aggro/mana was less significant so you could go all
Having a more complex rotation doesnt need to mean you go burning through mobs at the speed of light, but thats what happened
>>335481963
>Your character will be a champion of X faction yet again
I just want to be a simple adventurer again.
>>335481963
I dunno, I feel mixed about Legion.
The content all sounds pretty drab but I like the class changes...Not sure how that's gonna work out for me. I am honestly looking forward to playing all of the classes I play now with the changes and artifacts, but especially after WoD (and especially after those Class Hall mission screenshots) I'm worried how shit the stuff to play with is gonna be.
After playing LOTRO the Artifact system seems especially shallow. World quests are just gonna be more quests I'm tired of. Garrison 2 is just gonna be the Garrison but with Huntznutz the elf standing next to me instead of some NPC.
>>335492972
Nah, Wrath dungeons were substantially easier, mostly due to the lack of any real CC requirements or having to deal with particularly tough mobs.
TBC was the last expac where CC abilities were relevant in PvE. It's no coincidence that the one dungeon memory that always sticks with me is that time my alt warlock had to keep three mobs simultaneously CC'd in Blackheart the Inciter's room in heroic Shadow Labyrinth. Succubus seduced a humanoid, banished a demon, and kept a wrathguard controlled via Fear and using Curse of Recklessness to stop him from running in a bad direction. This, because our group was super light on CC otherwise.
I miss having to actually be awake in dungeons.
>>335493170
Up to WotLK the game was getting only better and better, the only issue was WotLK getting a bit too easy. Everything after that was crap. So I would say go for TBC server.
>>335492694
I don't know how it was with you guys, but in my guild we had a LOT of shuffling and people coming and going. At a certain point, it was refreshing to be able to have people able to play multiple classes and cover for people who were MIA.
>>335492207
>5 minute buffs
>great
At a certain point it becomes asinine. It was awesome when they finally increased the duration to 10 or 15 minutes. Can't remember which. Eventually they just made all blessings greater blessing.
>>335494062
then
use
reagents
>>335494136
I already said I did, nigger!
WoW needs to ditch the whole control scheme, make everything like a garrison mission where you manage different characters on your account, and just make it a cell phone game. The concept for the game is over 15 years old. It's time to adapt.
>>335493918
It gave us the incentive to run previous content and help them gear up. Look for new people, ask around, talk, SOCIALIZE WITH COMMUNITY, instead of sticking solely to the small guild group because it's easy to catch up anyway. It caused some problems and drama sometimes, but that's the stuff that creates memories of the time spent playing.
>>335481963
>Did you think WoW would die in such an awful way; through aggressive purposeful neglect? It's almost as if blizzard wants to kill the game so they can stop working on it.
When they announced that Project Titan was getting canned, yes.
Titan was supposed to be WoW's successor, but it fell through and a fraction of its assets are being turned into faggot streamerbait esport wannabe Overwatch.
>>335490834
Yea and arthas just toyed with you
>>335481963
The only way for WoW to get back its former glory would be if they stopped with release a expansion every 11-14 months and instead put actual time and effort into giving actual content even if it will be three or four years.
>>335487469
Agreed.
>>335493497
>LOTRO
I just jumped back in and boy, it might have felt like an older more aged WoW back in the day but now it feels like the greatest breath of true MMO fresh air ever. And it still has years to go as well.
>>335494461
Played on a low pop server, wasn't always feasible.
>>335495326
It would be AMAZING...If the F2P system wasn't the super jewiest shit. I love it to pieces but I find it hard to recommend to people because of how much everything is gated. I am happy to see they started adding real dungeon again. Group play is the shit in it.
>>335494461
The more I think about it, gating content behind attunements again would probably fix the issue in a better way than just gear.
>Me and 2 friends resub after not playing since BC
>Get to level 15
>"Oh cool let's do some dungeons, they're always fun"
>2 guys with heirlooms join
>They both run ahead, pull entire rooms and take no damage from the monsters while our healer is still looking at quests
>can't even loot shit or gather herbs or do any quests because if I stop for a second, I'll miss multiple encounters
>Dungeon finishes in 5 minutes
>"This can't be right, this feels like how it used to feel when a level 60 ran us through the dungeon"
>Try 5 other completely different dungeons
>It's exactly the same
I've never been more bored in my life.
Tell me, /v/, are these almighty heirlooms the best "twinking" gear you can get for level 19, 29, 39, 49, 59 etc etc as well?
Does no effort go into twinking characters out now? Because I remember needing to religiously watch the auction house for excellent twink gear back in the day.
Is low level battlegrounds even a thing anymore? We've been in queue for Warsong Gulch/Arathi Basin for like 32 minutes.
Probably just gonna quit again at this point. Leveling in dungeons is mindless, and if heirlooms are the penultimate low level gear then twinking your character is also gone which means there's literally nothing to do until end game, which is not the type of game I can be arsed playing.
>>335496404
Some of the old attunement chains could get pretty annoying when rolling alts, but if you made people at least clear certain raid once and finish some small quests along the way, it would surely made not-current content more relevant.
>>335494461
Maybe if you were on a high pop server. Meanwhile people on low pop servers were miserable.
But please, keep explaining how everyone else in the world is supposed to have fun.
>>335496569
Twinks were always huge faggots, so the fact that it's more accessible is a good thing. New Totally feel you on the dungeons, though, they're a fucking snorefest and I feel bad for anyone running without heirlooms.
>>335496569
Mate, you don't even need the heirlooms to power your way through dungeons, those guys just had them on for the experience boost.
You're absolutely capable of just annihilating everything in your path at low levels, regardless of gear.
>>335496569
They're the best gear you can get to like 10 levels to max, its all it is, it is what you use, they give you more XP so you can get to max faster. And yes low level pvp is a thing, its probably 100 times more unfun for you since you have no gear and prot warriors are gonna run around and one shot you.
>Cata launches
>make players have to at least discover the entrance of a dungeon before they can queue for it
>people complain and they remove it months later
They can't make the game better because people don't want the game to be better.
At least now the negative feedback is getting much louder because for years the only people who would post feedback on the forums was autistic yes man Blizzdrones
>>335496718
Heirlooms should be limited to weapons and a selection of trinkets that you can only use one at the time.
>>335495937
Technically WoW is on a buy to play standard now, as you no longer need to pay for a sub.
>>335496569
There is stronger gear for twinking, actually. Heirlooms are actually just "good enough" while giving significant experience boosts. Makes powerleveling characters easy. Thats the entire point.
>>335496934
Posts like this remind me of how stupid people are. Completely missing the point. Completely unable to grasp what other people want.
>>335496569
>make new mage with new heirlooms
>do a dungeon
>mobs die before I can finish casting a single frostbolt
The best thing you can do at low levels is just avoid dungeons. Its sad but they added a feature where killing all the bosses of a dungeon completes this objective and gives you a massive chunk of XP.
Even without heirlooms it ruins leveling because you do one dungeon then outlevel whatever zone you're in
>>335496934
Yeah I could get behind this. I wouldn't mind seeing them fucking nerfed in terms of power, too. It's pretty fucking retarded how good they are. Coming back after a long hiatus and starting a new char, I was killing everything with white damage. ZZZ
>>335496569
Btw I forgot to add.
I did Wailing Caverns at level 15. By time the dungeon ended, I was level 20. WITHOUT HEIRLOOMS.
I shit you not, this is fucking retarded.
>>335496654
The only attunement chain that was a real nightmares was TBC. But in all given choices you did it anyways, because it was the typical progress. So most of the time people cannot recall the TBC attunements like you would for Onyxia's or MC.
Probably the most hilarious one though was the AQ gate event and Naxx. Naxx you could skip entirely if you had already been doing plaguelands like you should have all through vanilla with exalted argent dawn rep. Otherwise it was an expensive process.
>>335491467
>he didn't have a 28-slot quiver full of ice arrows and a regular bag full of arrow-maker machines
Piss off, complaining scum.
>>335496903
Then they added two dungeon modes that require you to physically go tot he dungeon entrance and both modes give the best rewards.
Not that I expect you to know that.
>>335497159
No heirlooms
>>335496996
Talking about LOTRO, but yes. WoW tokens are nice.
I LOVE the world of warcraft!
>>335497156
Why is he stupid? Heirlooms make everything trivial as fuck. The EXP boost is nice, but being borderline god mode in leveling content, which isn't exactly difficult to begin with... Just, why?
Wouldn't a Wrath legacy server, or even a BC one, have a better chance at being more profitable than Vanilla since they had more subscriptions?
>>335497183
Combo points don't drop immediately upon killing a mob. They reserve and hold now. That's some real horseshit that I can stack 5 on shit mobs and go one shot someone.
>>335497242
>He didn't farm 50+ soulshards before MC and BWL
EAT ME
A
T
M
E
>>335497183
The power drops off eventually, but for the first...90 levels yeah they're pretty fucked! Then at 90 you can buy a crafted item as good as level 100 gear. You don't get a good dungeon run until 100 now, and you have to do Mythic for it.
>>335481963
>the shills aren't working today it seems
your post seriously begs to differ
>>335492121
PvP was pretty good, although WoD PvP is pretty bad. Gave up on playing 3s.
>>335497416
>The power drops off eventually
>Level 90
That's way too fucking long and you know it. Heirlooms have played a massive part in destroying the game.
>>335497310
Just why indeed? Why does it bother you?
I hate to break it to you, but the leveling content isn't supposed to be challenging. The majority want it to be easier, not harder. I know you want leveling to be a several month long arduous grind, but most people don't.
Its fun once.
Just once.
And you need to do it without heirlooms once before you can ever get them. Which is all the restriction that makes any sense.
I don't know why you want it be even more tedious for the 8th alt you level up, but most people don't.
I don't understand why you could possibly care. As you said, leveling content is already trivial. Why does it bother you its made slightly more so?
>>335497543
>its fun once
not if its braindead.
>>335496569
I didn't play Nostalrius a lot but a fond memory is when as alliance guildies made a long trip to Shadowfang Keep
>>335496569
>>335496803
>>335497159
Modern WoW is focused entirely on the endgame content. Blizzard has ensured that the path to $MAXIMUM_LEVEL is as quick and painless as possible; levels 1~($MAXIMUM_LEVEL - $EXPANSION_LEVEL_RANGE) are perfunctory, merely there because it would be weird for a total fresh newbie to start at ($MAXIMUM_LEVEL - $EXPANSION_LEVEL_RANGE) instead of 1.
>>335496903
Which is part of this. Blizz doesn't dare take away any of this convenience stuff because the current playerbase wants all of that convenience stuff. For every player talking about how flying trivializes the world, utterly destroys world PvP and wastes all the effort Blizz puts into designing zones, there are thousands of players on their forums throwing an absolute shitfit about the very prospect of not being able to fly on day 1 of $CURRENT_EXPANSION. Ditto all the other community-killing "enhancements" introduced over the years. Once you've introduced them, you can't get rid of them because that's nerfing the play experience of the ultra-casuals your game relies upon to remain profitable.
>>335497447
>say something positive about a game
>must be a shill
>shitpost about a game
>must be a shill
How do you not be a shill?
>>335497543
Is this bait? Please be bait, nobody can be this idiotic.
>>335497447
>talking about how shit the games is
>shills
i know you are a paranoid twat but don't infect us with your delusions
>>335497543
>why does it bother you
because when I join a dungeon I want to use my brain
>>335497646
Do not post about the game
>there are people posting on /v/ right now who actually believe a petition is going to do anything
just like how Federation Force got cancelled huh?
>>335497543
That's what the EXP boost is for, though. Basically running around in epic+ gear that never needs to be replaced is silly.
>>335497409
>didn't farm shit for soul shards ever because all the other warlocks covered it
>never got kicked because I was an officer, which only happened because I leveled up with the guild leader
>>335497594
Then why do you want it to take longer? Tedium does not mean difficulty.
>>335497703
Then do challenge modes. Because that is the only time you are ever going to genuinely need to put some effort in. Otherwise, don't do dungeons.
The best part of this debacle is how RICH you morons are making streamers and whatever other attention-starved tip mendicants that rally behind this pointless excuse for a "cause". These people exploit your pathetic tantrums and entitlement, and let's not kid ourselves it is entitlement when you blame Blizzard because you don't enjoy their game rather than NOT PLAYING IT like a regular human being, just watch their streams. 5 minutes in Kungen or sodacuckin's stream reveals 20 donations for varying amounts just for sitting around feigning indignation. The free market really is a beautiful thing and it exists to dupe suckers like the people that comfortably rally behind the whining yelps that demand satisfaction for their infantile passions.
>>335497781
>blizzard already make fun of the petition on earth day
lmao
>>335497543
>You will never ever ever be this much of a cuck
Holy shit.
These are precisely the type of people that ruined the game.
>We want leveling to be mindless, we want everything given to us because we done it ONCE before!
Sorry, but that is fucking idiotic. The state of the game now is god awful, and it's purely because of how dog shit leveling has become.
>>335497530
>>335497792
Why is it silly?
>>335497829
>tedium does not mean difficulty
no, but difficulty slows you down since you need to think, which retards like you pass off as tedium
>do challenge modes
maybe I want to use my brain in the first 100 levels of the game? Maybe gimmicky comp dependent instances arent fun? Maybe more than 8 dungeons should be challenging at any given time?
>>335492608
It was miles better than the WOD or pandaris shit
>>335489906
>>335492121
Not all spells but some spells are casted from the weapons because of the artifact talents.
>Needing to rely on other players for healing.
This forced MMO play is exactly why the game will never be where it should be.
>>335497907
>and it's purely because of how dog shit leveling has become.
There are lots of problems with the game. How you spend a couple days of your playtime, ie leveling, has virtually nothing to do with it.
Maybe for you personally, because for some reason leveling in MMOs is your favorite thing in the entire world, but most people don't care.
>>335497823
YOU SON OF WHORE
For some reason I actually miss the old soul shards, though. I liked it, despite it being a chore, I got some kind of weird masochistic thrill from accumulating them...
>>335497543
trivializing the level grind created that mindset in the first place
nobody 'owed' you a max level character, you just demanded convenience and can't imagine living without it. max levels after 70 became a participation award, just like the rest of your life
>>335497834
You are supirised by this?
You are talking about a board that grew tropes vs women from a dull wisper to a loud orchestra.
>>335498060
>couple of days of your playtime
thats a huge fucking problem, leveling to cap should be more than a day or two of your timee
>>335498060
The 7 million people that left WoW were those "most people" and they most certainly did care.
>>335498081
what a coincidence, nobody "owes" you a nostalgia server, and yet here you are, expecting a convenience you can't imagine yourself without to such a point that you shit yourself with rage when someone tells you how much of a child you are :^)
>>335493687
Halls of stone, HAlls of light and the 3 ice dungeons were all as hard as anything in TBC.
Even the easy dungeons in wrath were fun for the most part though
>>335498081
Max levels TO 70 were a participation reward, and you know it.
Fuck's sake with you people trying to pretend that Vanilla/TBC leveling was in any way challenging or required any sort of thought. My very first toon was a NElf priest using motherfucking starshards in my main DPS rotation, leveling holy. I never had any significant trouble leveling through to 70. It was always braindead, you're just looking through giant-ass nostalgia goggles remembering the very first time you went through the world and had zero fucking clue what you were doing.
>>335498171
>7 million people left because of the lvling
nostkeks
>>335498305
>this delusion
yea compare those to Shadow Labs heroic lmao
>>335498171
I'll never understand why people unanimously assume the 7 million that left all had univocal decisions in the matter, like they all agreed in secret to leave for specific reasons that are conveniently summarized by le epic vanilla legacy server petition. Protip: there's a good chance over half of the people that dunked WoW after cavorting momentarily with WoD were just back out of morbid curiosity. Some people cease to be compatible with certain games, it happens. Of course, you can't expect people who are irrationally attached to the point of addiction to their meaningless hobbies.
>>335498000
>maybe I want to use my brain in the first 100 levels of the game?
Then maybe this isn't the game for you. Leveling hasn't been a challenge, even since vanilla. I don't know why you even bother posting in a WoW thread if a challenging leveling experience is something you genuinely care about.
>Maybe gimmicky comp dependent instances arent fun?
The only time they are comp dependent is if you are going for server first times. You can gold with reasonable comp of competent players. Which is where the reward is. If you WANT server first times, I don't know why you would expect to not have to put the extra effort of forming a good comp. Top content has always been comp dependent.
>Maybe more than 8 dungeons should be challenging at any given time?
And what is your metric? What number is "Good enough"? Is 9? 10? 100?
And why should that number be good enough?>
>>335490665
>people unironically want to go back to The Burning Cuckshed
>>335484249
>proof?
If they were to start shoving content in a vanilla legacy version of the game they would be limited with the amounts of story they can introduce, because it would conflict with the already existing lore. So all you'd take is generic dungeons.
Nobody wants that.
Let's get some things straight here.
>Old WoW dungeons
>Pull some trash up to a boss, stop, make sure everybody is ready, fight boss, priest and mages drink to regain mana, other people run off to mine ore and complete questions and the dungeon generally takes around 30 minutes, give or take
>Neo-WoW
>Tank runs through the whole dungeon without stopping, almost killing everything singlehandedly with his little AoE shit he does to keep threat
>Dungeon is done in sub 5 minutes
Epic.
>>335498117
I guess I really shouldn't be, the level of paranoiac neurosis on this board has increased a hundred fold from what it was 10 years ago. I'm ashamed to be an adult and still hanging around this place.
>>335498140
Why? Explain why. Is that so hard. If you are so certain its such a big deal, you should be able to give me paragraphs on why its such a big deal.
As it is, the majority of content that matters is max level, so getting to max level is a necessity for doing anything that matters to the majority of the playerbase. So it would seem logical getting to that point quickly is what most people would want, and all signs point to yeah, thats what they want.
Explain why im wrong, rather than just saying that I am.
>Vanilla/TBC leveling was challenging
No one is claiming it was challenging. What is with you autists and this obsession with difficultly
People liked it because you actually had to play the game. When a developer encourages you to skip 90% of the game's content then that's not a good sign
And yes leveling is part of content. This nonsense that raiding is all that matters is what killed the game
>>335498202
>nobody "owes" you a nostalgia server, and yet here you are
Nobody in this specific line of conversation has even mentioned a classic server, though.
>>335498007
WoD was just doing heroics to get geared for Highmaul and earning one piece of epic armor a week from your garrison "raid"
I didn't play after finishing highmaul since no other content was coming out
>>335498446
>people unironically want to go back to memenilla
>>335497934
Because it renders the rest of the gear meaningless, relegating blues and green drops to vendor trash at worst or overpriced auction fodder for nerds at best. Not to mention the power of heirloom gear seems to upset the power balance. I can't help but feel bad for some of these newbies when I run in and one shot every quest mob and they get to sit and wait for respawns.
>>335498060
Generally I think people view character creation in RPGs as an investment, in a sense. When you trivialize the investment that is essential to the spirit of the genre, you're just changing it into something else. Games like Diablo where story and immersion is secondary to slaughtering as much as you can as fast as you can is probably a better place to spend time as opposed to MMOGs. This is why people tend to dislike the trivialization of the leveling experience.
>>335498202
>nobody "owes" you a nostalgia server
why the fuck do you think I want a nostalgia server? I'm just saying why people like you shit up the expansions
>>335498329
>playing a self-heal no damage class
you played on boring mode, not hard mode, but you still probably learned your class better by the end of it
>>335498407
People act like everyone left for ONE reason only because they like to pretend THEIR reason for leaving is the only valid one. Its like back before Wildstar showed how much people DONT like tedious attunements you had people screaming up and down in these threads for years that removing attunements "killed WoW".
Adding them in certainly didn't make wildstar a success.
Same with every single thing a new MMO does that is like "old" WoW doesn't really help them.
Because its not as simple as ONE thing. It never has been.
>>335498615
feigned naivete is my favorite naivete
Reminder that today he is doing the following;
>delivering 12000 pages of pure petiton to Mike morhhaime
>callling mikes cell phone and office demanding answers
>releasing a video+letter to blizzard with sodapoppin, will be aired on news arond the world.
Blizzard is Fu kd. Face it, theyll have to make legacy servers.
>>335498807
I can't help it if you're simply making assumptions to fit your argument.
>>335498727
>Generally I think people view character creation in RPGs as an investment, in a sense.
Maybe a few people do. Maybe. But I don't think that applies to the majority. Especially when your character has so much more "investment" that occurs even at max level.
It stops being about what level you are and becomes about what gear you have.
Next expac it will be about gear and continuing to power up your artifact.
Its just developing a character in a different way. People that NEED that way to be concrete "levels" are a minority.
>>335498864
Is he going to announce his new game when blizzard tell him to fuck off?
>>335498923
right, let's just pretend it's got nothing to do with the latest in keyboard pugilism
>>335498769
And rogues were any different, dumping stealth cooldowns to murder quest mobs and pseudo-bosses before they could even act?
Or Warriors, just outright smashing everything with impunity? God, having to wait out my Charge cooldown because mobs died faster than it could come back up was excruciating, but it wasn't challenging.
In the absolute worst case, you might have to sit down to eat every 10 or so pulls because your bandages were on cooldown or something.
It was never challenging, no matter what class you played. Some were easier than others (lol huntards), but none of them were hard in any way.
>>335498864
When will Gamergate leave?
>>335499024
Yeah just wait for it on kickstarter, then all the vanillafriends can go pony up some cash for promises that will die in a matter of months
>>335499005
That's the point, though. It stops being immersive and character driven when people just demand an easy gateway to endgame so that they can do LFR and then AFK and shitpost in trade, or whatever else they do these days for fun.
>>335499154
>a hardcore mmo for gaymers by gaymers xd
>>335499154
Never, 4chan is literally lebbit now. And you just named the jew so prepare for a barrage of vitriol headed your way.
>>335499121
>pretending warrior leveling was easy
holy shit you literally never played the game stop posting
>>335499121
>vanilla warrior leveling
>easy
>>335499351
I've been playing warrior since vanilla and let me tell you I never once had issues leveling. Well, that's a lie, there was an issue, and that's the fact that I couldn't reliably level as prot in terms of solo, but arms and fury absolutely fucking SHIT on the game and if you don't know this then you either never played vanilla or are outright trolling. fury specifically was fucking absurd.
>>335499121
you don't even have to eat food/bandage anymore
every class self heals, and heirlooms ensure anything short of a multi red pull die easily. no more strategically pulling things, why bother right? every fight is trivial
you don't have to pay attention during questing
since every quest tracks and identifies everything you interact with
>Or Warriors, just outright smashing everything with impunity? God, having to wait out my Charge cooldown because mobs died faster than it could come back up was excruciating, but it wasn't challenging.
oh fuck, I was responding to bait. you got me
>>335499260
I played in vanilla.
I leveling a mage to max level.
I never found the game anything resembling "immersive" or "character driven"
I just wanted nicer gear and new spells.
Thats it.
And I know you haven't even read about the game in 10 years or whatever, but LFR doesn't matter anymore. Everyone does actual raids now that flex is a thing and LFR gives all of jack and shit.
The only people that do LFR are people that hate raiding, and want to watch a "live" youtube video of the content.
>>335498076
Eh, it's like poison, arrows, or other reagents. It adds a bit of immersion, makes you think about your resources, etc.
It's kind of indicative to how WoW has progressed, challenge wise. WoW (and older MMOs) based the challenge of a fight around resource management - The DPS had to keep the fight going for as long as they could before running out of mana, the tank had to do what they could to keep their health up, and the healers had to be prudent to not run out of mana.
Nowadays it's more about the instant response. Make sure you move out of stuff, not because it wastes healer resources or time, but because it will straight up kill you and wipe the raid. Healing isn't about keeping the tank healthy, it's about keeping them at max health using your fastest healing ability. DPS isn't about resource management (mostly), it's about burst.
Not saying one is necessarily better than the other, but it's nostalgic to think about.
>>335499351
You being fucking awful at the game doesn't mean it wasn't easy. It fucking was.
Then again, by the time I got around to leveling my Warrior, I'd already been introduced to addons like Quartz to time Slam with autoswings (arms). So maybe it was harder if you were doing it with 100% stock UI, but I still can't see it being actually "challenging" unless you were just a mouthbreathing retard.
>>335499121
>>335499123
How is this like gamergate? People want to play a game that's no longer offered. It's not hard to understand.
>>335499583
Tanks actually did nothing other than compete for threat and break fears. Really, keeping your health up through mitigation is a relatively modern application for tanks, back when there was only shield block with a 1m cooldown, there really wasn't much to do.
>>335499583
>the tank had to do what they could to keep their health up
No.
Not even a little bit.
Tanking in vanilla and even TBC was threat management while doing whatever mechanics you needed to do as a tank. Survivability was locked behind massive cooldowns. All you really could do was worry about threat.
Yeah, MODERN WoW is now about tanks keeping themselves alive by trivializing threat and making a huge thing of active mitigation and cooldown cycling, but that wasn't even a stray thought in vanilla tanking.
ok
>>335499123
>any form of activism related to games is gamergate
kys
>>335498803
>Wildstar
Don't remind me. I want so bad for that game to be good.
But it just isn't.
>>335499121
>Vanilla warrior
>leveling was easy
>nah I've mained one since beta you're just bad
I hate talking about Vanilla with people because 90% of the people I talk to never actually played it and just spew garbage they've read in Youtube comments
Let me guess there were melee hunters too
>>335499990
But anon, it had attunements. That means its the greatest game since TBC.
You just don't know what a good game is.
>>335499815
either you never played horde, or you didn't play vanilla
there was far more to a tank than threat management, certain fights more than others but still, you're making a massive overstatement
>>335499121
Posts like this should be ban worthy. You are just spewing shit into the thread and have no idea what you're talking about
>>335500010
I loved going melee as a hunter in pvp. Caught people off guard so hard.
>>335499990
Wildstar would have been okay if they hadn't stuck so hard to their elitist guns.
I enjoyed the process to level cap, and I enjoyed the dungeons being challenging and requiring a lot of forethought and coordination and skilled play. What I didn't enjoy was the fact that you got NOTHING for doing a dungeon unless you did a completely flawless speedrun of it. Or the fact that fucking bugs in the game months after release would prevent that all the time.
It made the game completely pointless to play unless you already had a full guild full of very competent, on-point players.
>>335499775
>>335499815
Yeah I know, I did a little tanking back then (mostly the warlock though). Keeping your health up was literally a 30 minute cooldown and >shield block, maybe a potion. They did nothing except try desperately to hold threat after you let them exclusively take 10% of the boss' health by themselves. Tanks still get fucked design wise when all they have to worry about is a taunt switch. Lots of mechanics still avoid tanks completely, which is a design decision that baffles me and has carried over into a lot of other WoW clones. The tank game has definitely improved despite that, even if it has stagnated for the past 3+ expansions.
>>335481963
At least write good paste I can repost on the battle.net forums, faggot
Like that WoD one about butchered content, blizzard blue posts on it were hilarious
>>335500084
Oh yeah, you had to stance dance your way around fears sometimes.
My bad.
Still didn't have anything to do with managing your health or survivability.
You just didn't want to get feared so the dragon didn't eat your raid.
>>335500183
Wildstar would have been okay if it wasnt a fucking themepark MMO that was all about level cap raid or die
the dungeon difficulty was a nice change, but as a whole the game was lacking in content
>>335499685
Anyone wanting to collectively push towards anything related to vidya is gamergate and gamergate is categorically the worst thing ever.
>>335500196
Active mitigation is the best thing that ever happened to tanks. Brewmasters, at least in MoP, the most fun tanking WoW ever had, and the most rewarding if you got gud.
>>335499542
I played and think pretty much the same way t b h
>>335499614
I played stock ui until wrath came out. I personally thought leveling a warrior was pretty painful until about 30 when you got that baller axe and some other abilities, then it really started to come into its own. Just from personal experience, war felt like it had to be much more careful about the things they killed than other classes. At least until 30ish.
I was jazzed about Legion all the way until they just announced Death Strike will be staying as it is in alpha, costing RP instead of Runes.
Fuck everything.
RIP Labeef. You let Kel'thuzad all the way up until Archimonde punch you in the face. You've done your time.
On-topic, what's a fun alternate tanking class? Tried Brewmaster for a bit and was ehhh.
>>335500262
I still have to wonder what people want with games that aren't about max level. I mean, what do you even do in them? Do you hit max level then delete your character and make another?
Everyone will inevitably hit max level so I don't see why a focus on it is a bad idea.
>>335500308
So we should just let video game companies Jew us? Got it.
>>335500430
paladins because they have flails
dh because they are new?
>>335500430
Warrior will always be good.
>>335496569
Shadowfang still the best lvl 19 sword. Heirlooms are good rare items for that lvl. You can still get the best rares from dungeons if you farm/buy them.
>>335500430
warrior still best tank
inb4
>warrior
>good tank
charge and leap are lots of fun
>>335500453
No, there is still stuff to do at max level
but you dont rush there and ignore 90% of the game otherwise.
>>335500430
Demon hunters will be OP tanks. Just play one of those.
>>335498580
>Explain why
Not him, but I guess I'll try to give my take on it.
The reason it's better for the leveling experience to last longer is because it makes the game last longer. If the game lasts longer, that's more time of your life you devote to it. You make social connections. You get better at the game. You level up your professions. You explore, and discover, and do all that shit you are supposed to do in an MMO. You've now invested so much time in it, that it would be a waste to stop now. From the perspective of the player, it's a more rewarding experience.
Relatively speaking, max level raids and dungeons make up a very tiny portion of the content. To claim that end game activities are the only content worth doing is pretty much admitting that 99% of the game is pointless. Which is pretty sad to admit, if that is indeed the state of the game now.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy getting to max level in a handful of hours. And that's good for them, I'm glad they find some sort of enjoyment in it. But I'm not going to let their opinion dissuade me from saying that I think the absence of any kind of time investment is a big blow to the overall quality of the experience.
>add dungeon finder
>whatever dungeon content you add is sped through by players regardless of difficulty
>remove attunements and add in catch up gear
>previous raid tiers are made irrelevant
>add LFR
>new players have no motivation to see the actual raid content
>transmog allows anyone to look cool for minimum effort
>wonder why people complain there's no content
A lot of different things hurt this game but these things are what killed end game raiding. You have to gate your content in some way or people just blow through it
If there were LFR versions of SSC and Tempest Keep TBC would have been a shitshow
>>335500362
Well yeah, RELATIVELY warrior in Vanilla/TBC was "harder" than other classes. Hunters and Locks didn't even have to think about what they were doing, Warriors did.
But it still wasn't hard. You just couldn't be completely retarded.
>>335500505
I'm all about that flail business. I have low expectations for DH tanks though, in terms of fun. They seem so dull.
Truth be told, I've never played a pally. Seems kinda gay to go from edge lord dark knight to edge lord light knight.
Whatever, everyone that plays WoW is a faggot anyway. Lube me up, Silver Hand!
>>335482532
>most profit
lmao do nostfags actually believe this
>>335500484
Anon.
I agree with you. My post was meant to indicate the mentality of people who screech gamergate at any turn. And show it as a bad mentality.
