MMOs
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
Let's talk MMOs, /v/.
First up, which do you prefer;
Set classes a la WoW, Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, etc.
or
No classes like Ultima Online, just train the skills you want to make whatever kind of build you like
>>335233598
>You can choose from a enormous list of skills
>Classes are there just to provide strong passives to build a character and make some restrictions on which skills to pick ("Warrior" is strong in melee combat so you should pick melee skills but you can pick ranged skills for utility or whatever)
>Lots of builds/endless builds avaible in the endgame, some PvE encounters might constrict you to use precise builds
>You can switch between builds whenever you want
>>335234181
I like the idea but I'm not sure about the build switching. What's to stop people from becoming a jack of all trades?
>>335234329
Time
>>335234329
Build switching but not in fight. You have to return in town to switch build or something like that.
Since there are endless builds avaible leveling a character everytime would be a chore, so you just set up the build (like the itemsets on WoW) and change it.
>>335234487
>leveling a character everytime would be a chore
Just like all other leveling.
>>335234610
It never makes sense how this board supports leveling as if it's some impacting content that is relevant after it's completed. Sure, leveling in OG WoW was entertaining, but that whole experience is plausible without the XP meme. It's just being in zones and doing quests and farming.
>>335233598
This is how I think it should be:
>High maximum level (Say 9999)
>XP Increase is deterministic easy to level \ hard to level levels
>Morrowind Attributes and Skills
>Gain skills via usage, gain attributes via leveling and spending level points
>Use level points to make abilities better or increase attributes or mix of both
>Abilities are found in world where it makes sense: trainers, loot, gods, stealing off of bosses, libraries, different worlds
>Very large ability pool
>Abilities depend on skills
>skills depend on attributes
>>335234685
Why don't we forget about questing/grinding to get XP and just let people train their skills by using them? Note that not all skills need to be combat related; Ultima Online had a bunch of them.
>>335233598
A modern ultima that didnt look / play like shit would be perfection
Especially considering all the modern survival games and minecraft are using most of the mechanics it created
>>335234807
>Why don't we forget about questing/grinding to get XP and just let people train their skills by using them?
>to get XP
That's exactly what that post says.
>>335234834
I'd like to see this but how do you handle death penalties in this age?
>>335235053
Consequences.
>>>335234478
>>335235142
Oh, you're THAT guy.
>>335235357
>I'm so butthurt I have to deflect
>>335233598
Ultima Online was the best, but it is too hard to balance or to prevent everyone going tankmage
Job system from FFXI coupled with class specs from WoW (the hybrid specialisations aka healing/tanking/dps tree) would be more realistic imho
>>335234329
different roles like tank healer dps maybe, make it that you cant take ALL usefull skills at once so people have to choose who does what, also make different skills be based on different atributes so you have to gear for your role/build
>>335235053
I legitimately want to know thisfor the RPG I'm working on.
>>335235760
Ultima Online let you choose 7 skills to train. You could retrain them at any point though.
>>335235862
Single player? You could take some cues from the Souls series I guess.
>>335235923
Multiplayer.
>>335236162
Shoot some ideas then dude. Personally I think dropping full inventory is quite harsh but it does force people to think carefully before heading into a dangerous zone. It also provides that high risk for high reward feeling that many people enjoy.
>>335236331
Losing gear durability is fine.
>>335236331
Right now any dungeons reset and that's about it. I'm thinking about some form of gear durability system or deducting some money for resurrecting.
>>335233598
>MMORPG.com
I'm surprised that site hasn't died yet.
>>335236438
Go back to WoW.
>>335236438
Losing gear durability is fine as long as the game is not built around getting epic gear and it defining your character. If you think about gear as long term buffs, like every sandbox game with degradation did, it makes perfect sense. Give players control over the economy through crafting and trading and you have SWG.
>>335236607
>Losing gear durability is fine as long as the game is not built around getting epic gear and it defining your character
Except that would also be fine.
>>335236704
No, because then it just becomes busywork and you're never interested in replacing the best gear once you have it.
>>335236760
>Have best gear
>don't use it
>get more best gear
>sell it
>rich
>play with best gear
>>335233598
I think class identity is important, but this doesn't rule out training whatever the fuck you want.
I like how they thought up the class system in Camelot Unchained but we're yet to see how good the game will be.
>>335236760
that only works if gear cannot be repaired past a certain point. like the guy mentioned in swg your gear would eventually be unfixable because you'd lower the treshold with each repair. what this meant in practice was you would save your good shit for when it matter and carried spare gear with you at all times. it also kept the economy running because everyone always needed replacements and they didn't have to be top-notch shit you would pay an arm and a leg frm.
Weapon & Armor sets a la Monster Hunter in an open sandbox world
>your dream MMO will never be published and be successful
>you will never have half of the world succumb to your game's addiction and be held against in court by angry moms and bosses
>>335237102
What is your dream MMO Anon?
>>335233598
Yeah, I knew such mmo. That mmo pop my cherry. I was looking for substance for it, but realised there are only one like it. It's namerunescape. :(
>>335236982
And it *does* function well. It's fucking fun farming up items to sell.
I'd love to see legendary weapons actually be legendary. As in only one can exist in the game world at the time. Naturally you'd have to take steps so people couldn't just bank them. Maybe make them cursed so they can't be unequipped and they have to kill something (in line with their lore) every x days or the weapon abandons/kills its wielder. These weapons would make the wielders juggernauts, titans amongst men. Borderline raid bosses. But the cost would be that you're marked. If its a pvp thing then anyone can attack you anywhere, if its a pve thing then perhaps you become hunted by elite champions or something.
I'm not a game dev or designer so it probably wouldn't work as a whole but the one thing I always hated in mmos is that you have this amazing legendary weapons in lore but everyone and their mum is walking around with one. Make them actually unique.
>>335237174
A lot of stuff implemented (classes, races and whatnot); it's too embarrassing to tell.
>>335236982
Vanguard could've been the shit had not literally everything been against it.
>developed by overambitious devs
>that whole drama about drug-abusing CEO and overall poor direction because of it
>Microsoft ditched the game because it was taking too long
>picked up by SOE who only bought it so it wouldn't compete with eq2 and put it on life support immediately
>F2P revival and patches after a year or more gave everyone hope
>SOE decides to shut it down because "database maintenance wasn't worth it"
Only MMORPG I ever played that had a game world too big for its own good and they needlessly split the population across servers.
>>335237418
You'll never see shit like that because everything has to be designed so it's accessible by everyone in the game. It's why you'll never see something like, I don't know, player becoming a god and getting his own religion in a mainstream MMORPG. Wurm Online has shit like that, though
>>335237702
This is why there needs to be more Indie MMOs. Indies have the freedom to experiment and do things that mainstream devs are scared to do for fear of hurting profits.
I've given up on XIV. It's shit and there's no hope of it ever getting better. I'm not sure any PVE mmo will ever be good though, so I tried PVP on xiv in preparation for the feast PVP mode. I found that I enjoyed it more than I thought but realized that the pvp in XIV is shit.
So I think I should just look for a PVP focused mmo instead. Looking around there's crowfall and camelot unchained on the horizon. Which one are you banking on to succeed right now, /v/?
>>335237702
I think the mindset or culture of video game players just couldn't handle a sandbox style game like that anymore anon. Not to be 'born in wrong generation' but everyone now seems to have this fetish for loot treadmills and just reading a wiki to get the best possible meta build then spend hours pumping out a 123 optimized rotation they read off a guide.
There's nothing wrong with having raids of some kind but having them be the end all be all focus of the game to the point where it overshadows every other aspect is just wrong.
I'd heard great things about Ultima Online and Everquest but I missed them due to not having a computer back then.
>There will never be an MMO where the final end-game boss is deeply hidden in an unlisted patch and is controlled by an admin that parties queue up to fight and only one party can defeat him to get special gear
>>335238095
I don't think PvP focused MMOs will ever really take off when people can just play MOBAs with less time investment.
I hope I'm wrong though.
>>335238352
They had an opportunity a decade or so ago but with how much people expect out of games in terms of visuals and interactivity these days it's not a likely prospect for an MMO.
>>335238332
>There will never be an fun MMO
thank you, casuals
>>335234181
Only issue is that huge skill lists always result in dead paths where the skills are either useless, highly situational or just weaker versions of other skills.
Always prefer a smaller set of skills that completely change how the class plays and are easier to make all choices work as opposed to the former
>>335238352
That's the thing though. Crowfall looks like a more persistent dota. Or at least a longer term dota session. The world 'persistent' is key imo. In mobas you just get the satisfaction of winning but you dont get character progression that stays. Surely there are people who hankers for that.
Maybe that's just my opinion though. I only tried moba for a month or two. Shit, maybe if these games don't take off, maybe I should start playing mobas and give up on mmos altogether?
How do you feel about MMOs that use Minecraft style world building? I don't mean just proc gen but the actual mechanics of building/destroying shit block by block. Some areas would be untouchable (think main hubs or cities) while players could go out and explore newly generated areas.
Trove exists but it's very much aimed at children.
>>335238141
well mindles mob/skill grind is even worse than all those 'ten bear asses' quests
>>335238862
>explore newly generated areas.
>tfw there's no mmo based on hack where there are infinite worlds randomly created by making a combination of words
>tfw you will never have a secret base somewhere in these password worlds
>tfw there will be no guild vs guild wars like in eve where wars are fought based on pass code intels, espionage and propaganda
Are there any MMOs currently alive that reward communication with other people when doing dungeons and quests or are they all streamlined and can be played as a single player game
Ragnarok was my sweet spot.
I didn't like the rates on official servers though, too much quest grind and not enough party or PVP fun.
It felt more like a singleplayer game with a pinch of multiplayer added on top.
A lot of MMO's feel like this, which is why I never play them.
>>335239096
EVE Online lmao
Runescape is the only MMO that did it right
>>335238973
It is a difficult thing to balance for sure. I think leveling is necessary no matter what because then your player base has to deal with the whole sunk cost fallacy so you'd have better retention. Honestly if the content available while leveling and the philosophy of 'the game doesn't start until max level' can be avoided then it alleviates the burden that leveling incurs of holding people back from experiencing the 'real' content of the game.
Out of the MMOs I've played for any long period of time, I'd rank them:
SWTOR > FFXIV > WoW = ESO > FF11 > DCUO > Runescape > D&DO
D&DO was set in Eberron, so it was obviously terrible. Runescape is to the MMO market what flash games are to AAA titles. DCUO is fun to make characters, but not actually fun to play. FF11 was grindy as fuck and no real way to singleplay. ESO's alright, my biggest gripe is 9 core races and only 8 character slots. WoW is what WoW is, everyone including me mostly plays it because we've sunk ten years in at this point. FF14 has everything WoW has and a little extra besides, but is way prettier. And SWTOR is just perfect.
>>335233598
What I want is a MMO with Baldur's Gate like dungeons, a skill and leveling system like GW and a world as comfy as WoW vanilla.
It must not have koreean graphism like Tera or realistic like Age of Conan. Also no welfare epics.
Is it too much too ask?
>>335239294
>graphism
Are you French by any chance?
What kind of art style would you prefer then? Cartoony like WoW?
>>335239396
Yes I am, plus I haven't slept all night so my english is down the shitter atm.
>What kind of art style would you prefer then? Cartoony like WoW?
I really, really like GW art style. It's really neat and beautiful.
Basically what I want is Guild Wars 2
>>335233598
As much as I adored UO, you have to admit training up the skills was annoying as hell for a lot of the skills, but if done properly I'd love to see a revisit of that system.
Having full control over what skills you learn and the degree you master them allowed for players to have more freedom in what they do rather than waiting solely on the game or their class telling them what they can or cannot do.
As stated earlier though, it'd need a complete reworking of how you gain XP in each skill though and how you can use them. Nothing is more annoying than trying to train up a skill and getting like no experience cause you're so low in the skill you fail at it.
>>335239557
>Yes I am
Knew it.
>Basically what I want is Guild Wars 2
Then why don't you play it?
>>335238862
Conceptually thats neat, but you'd likely fall into a similar issue UO had. Which was that finding places to place down housing becomes a bigger issue than getting the house.
In other words, theres only a finite amount of space in the world. Even if you limit it only to certain parcels, or like UO areas with large/flat enough land, you get to the point where finding empty parcels becomes damn near impossible.
>>335239772
Couldn't that problem be solved with something like what >>335239078 suggested?
There doesn't have to be a finite amount of space if new areas can be generated on the fly.
>>335239595
>getting like no experience cause you're so low in the skill you fail at it.
That is stupidly frustrating but easy to remove at least.
>>335239645
I don't want to play the abomination that is current GW2. This game has nothing to do with the first one.
Here's a quick comparison :
- GW1 builds for the elementalist class
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Special:PrefixIndex/Build:E/
- GW2 builds for the elementalist class
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Elementalist
I have no idea what the hell happened at Arena Net for them to change everything that made the first game a success.
>>335239942
>I have no idea what the hell happened at Arena Net for them to change everything that made the first game a success.
I think a lot of people feel the same way about Blizzard and WoW expansions.
>>335239938
It could be, but honestly is that even a MMO anymore? I mean the whole point of a MMO is basically to be sharing one world with thousands of other players. Otherwise what you have is essentially a seed thats used as a password and world gen, kinda no different than joining say a Minecraft server.
>>335239942
Remember smiter's boon?
That guy was in charge of skill design.
>>335240093
It's basicallystargate
>>335239557Go to bed, A.
>>335240157
Yes and no. The big difference is that Stargate's destinations aren't random. They'd be preset destinations you dial in. More like an address than anything else.
The suggestion the other person had stated creating infinite worlds randomly using combinations of words. That'd work like a seed, and is closer to how Minecraft generates its worlds and servers.
Incidentally, there is a minecraft mod that actually does something similar to that in which it creates dimensions based on symbols combined and such.
I've been thinking about MMOs for a long time because I'm in love with the concept and thinking of how I would design one because I don't think very many have been done correctly.
However, I realized a while ago that I don't think my ideas would work in a true open-world sandbox MMO setting without something ridiculous like quantum computing and whatnot to eliminate issues of latency and tickrates
Anyway here's a list of bulletpoints for ideas I've been thinking of for a game off and on for a few months but will never amount to anything ever
http://pastebin.com/R60DcXjV
/blog
>>335240343
But all the stargates world are made up shit. They never said how many there are and essentially you can have almost every 7/8 chevron combination lead to a precreated world. I'm just saying randomly generated because it doesn't make sense to generate all the possible combinations and then start handcrafting them down from top of the list to the bottom.
>>335239195
You forgot Mabi
>tfw using Alchemy with every playstyle after getting through the shitty early stages
>>335240343
You don't have to allow the players to choose the seed. There could be a pool of generated areas that they can only get to through portals or some shit. Rip open a hole in space and end up in one of those places and maybe save the location to return to later.
>>335234181
>
You are more than your class. Pick up and use any weapon, any armor, and choose from an enormous selection of spells and abilities to customize your fighting style—no matter which class you select. Create exactly the hero you envision, try out new abilities, and change out your skills anywhere to adapt to new threats. You’re in control of your character’s fate.
How does that sound? Need it more specific?
>>335241130
>Swole as fuck armor and shield-wielding warrior decides to become a robe-wearing wizard with a magical stick
>>335241205
Possible. Is it a problem?
>>335238332
>queue up
You had something going there and then this shit showed up.
>>335241270
It's only a problem if they can switch on the fly and become Gandalf right away.
>>335233598
I just want EVE Online with actual gameplay.
>>335241205
>fireball spell becomes more physical damage than fire because of the speed of it being thrown
>muscle warrior becomes a baseball pitcher style fireball mage
>>335233598
I love MMO with politic/government system and can fight other races
Muh arena pvp and ranking should never exist
>>335241325
How is everybody supposed to fight 1 person at the same time anon?
>>335241345
Well you can switch weapon + skillset (of 5 skills on hotbar) during a fight, but you can't change armor which makes it fairly weak to do so if you are not built around that idea.
>>335241438
>what are world bosses?
Did you just start playing MMOs?
>>335241459
I was thinking more about the skill requirements.
Isn't allowing someone who has specced to be the Hulk to also simultaneously be Gandalf a little overpowered?
I'm not sure how I feel about letting people max every skill and switch between builds at whim.
>>335241205
Sound exactly like XIV
![baium[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/isAJN30.gif "baium[1].gif")
>>335241325
There are children in this thread who do not even know that non-instanced raidbosses can exist.
They will laugh at you for even bringing it up, surely modern technology is not yet capable of such a thing.
>>335241492
A huge fuckfest of everybody just blasting out their spreadsheet combos on a monster that can barely control itself spamming AoEs while nobody can tell what the fuck is going on? Because that's what they were in SWTOR, XIV, and BDO, and I'm sure many more.
Nah m8, an enemy that actually has mechanics based around a small number of players in a party fighting it and controlled by a person is infinitely more interesting. MHF had the right idea with that giant snake monster where multiple parties fought different parts of it in their own instance. This is a step further than that.
>>335241459
>only 5 skills
Why don't people like having a lot of skills anymore?
Imo MMO should be slow-paced and so should be the combat, like a chess game where you have to nitpick the correct skill to use for each different situation instead of just spamming 5 buttons in a somewhat correct rotation.
>>335241595
It's not the level of the skills that make them powerful but your equipment.
Lets say you are with mighty 2 hander and set of plate armor fighting someone, your target goes far away and you choose to pick up your staff and shoot fireballs at him, those fireballs are weak and does not do much dmg cause you are wearing plate armor.
>>335241325
What's the point of the admin controlling the monster if it just acts like a world boss?
>>335241743
It's a total of 10 skills + auto attack which include light and heavy attack. It give enough diversity and the combat is focused more on resource management.
>>335233598
L2 had the best class system imo.
>humans, elves and d elves have the traditional tank/nuker/healer/buffer/rogue/archer
>still play completely differently, with racials and different skills/buffs/stats on the racial version of each class
>orcs and dwarves get classes that are exclusive to them, such as clan buffer for the orcs or crafter for the dwarves
>once you get to a certain level, you can complete a long ass quest that allows you to add any class in the game as a subclass
>you can freely change between subclasses (up to 3) and even delete old ones to add new
That game had over 30 different classes and the all felt necessary and useful.
>>335233598
No classesMy favourite MMO is EVE
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wdmuOwc.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
>>335241668
>SWTOR, XIV, and BDO
Spot the WoWkiddie. There's nothing wrong with the type of boss you mentioned demanding a couple of players to work together, but if you think that's how all bosses should be and just throw out of the window boss diversity then you're dumb.
And if you think that it takes no skill to keep several guilds from killing each other and coordinating groups based on their elemental spell damage to hurt the boss as much as possible at the right time without blowing all their mana simultaneously early on, then you're even dumber, and probably a MOBAfag.
My dream MMO is a game where every one is kind of a classic p&p wizard. Before venturing out of the city or your mage tower, you'd have to pick all the spells you need to safely exploring the land, and if you run out of spells midway you're screwed.
The classes would be the likes of evoker, illusionist, elementalist, conjurer etc...
>>335241789
Just gonna chime in and say that an admin controlled boss should act like a high level ganker. He'd stomp everybody around and retreat when people start crowding around to give him a disadvantage. Eventually the boss would get weaker and weaker and be less able to run away (teleport cooldown getting larger) and the player groups would spread out to look for the boss all over the world. First one to find the boss and actually be able to take them down gets the reward.
>>335241076
That technically makes it a bit worse. If you could choose a seed, at least theres a chance of two or more players popping up in the same location. Otherwise you may as well be playing a single player game.
>>335240506
While it is true that they're all made up shit, the same can be said about dot hack's as well. The difference is just in how they're executed and as I said, to make them randomized based on whatever terms, it'd be basically making seed worlds.
Regardless, you'd basically wind up with single player servers essentially which makes a MMO pointless. Its not much different than online game lobbies at that point as well.
>>335242229
L2 had something similar.
Every time a mob was killed, there was a slight chance to drop a cursed weapon.
Those cursed weapons gave you massive stats and allowed you to freely pk anyone. The more you pk'd, the stronger they got. If you died, they would drop and anyone could pick them up.
You would go on mudrder sprees and eventually you'd have a huge train of players behind you. Shit was fun as fuck.
>>335242148
>>335242229
>but if you think that's how all bosses should be
When did I ever say that anon? I just thought it was a cool idea for a final end-game boss where you fight against the game's creator.
I understand the concept of a world boss and I do think it's a really neat idea (though commonly half-assed unfortunately), it's just not what I'm looking for. I want something that's extremely difficult to discover, on the level of discovering Dark Souls' Ash Lake x100, a long string of curious discoveries leading from one to the next until eventually the end-game boss is discovered. It then gives an incredibly difficult ultimate challenge to players and the friends they've played with for so long throughout the game to test their ability again the person who created it all. A party goes in and gets a certain amount of time or deaths before they're booted out and the next party riding on the coattails of their initial discovery try their hand at it.
Once a party comes along that has the ability to best the designer, they get a special prize only granted to the few who worked together to win it all.
>>335234329
Being a jack of all trades inherently sacrifices depth for breadth.
>>335241076
That could be neat if your space is linked to the game world. You could put traps and shit to kill the players trying to invade your home.
>>335242537
And once it gets discovered once, it's all over the wikis. Also, how can you make it work on multiple servers if it's one guy controlling the super-boss?
>tfw I'll never get to experience an MMO with the large amount of races and classes like EQ2
>>335242727
>And once it gets discovered once, it's all over the wikis.
Sure the method of reaching the boss may be revealed (though I was thinking something along the lines of the discovery triggering a somewhat accessible boss door and world-wide notice), but sharing tips on how to beat the boss outside your party is a bit counter-intuitive.
>Also, how can you make it work on multiple servers if it's one guy controlling the super-boss?
Time slots
how late is it for some one to start playing linage 2?
i hear all this awesome things about this game but i feel like im to late to the party and starting at this point will be to late when everyone already knows everything about the game.
>>335242537
The point is that what you're looking for is closer to a co-op game, not a MMO which stands for MASSIVE.
Instanced raid bosses who only allow 5 players at the same time are the very antithesis of what a MMO stands for.
I really wish developers weren't afraid to call their game something else, why don't they just invent the MORPG genre, multiplayer online focused on small parties. Seeing shit like Vindictus get labeled as MMO is misleading and retarded. I don't see Dark Souls or Diablo calling itself a MMO.
>>335241789
What's the point of the admin controlling the boss if it's just going to be a dungeon boss?
You just have the boss somewhere in the world, controlled by a person, so they can intelligently wipe out groups of large players so zerging is not an option but the fight still feels impressive than some queuing up snorefest.
Similar to what >>335242229 said, not that all of you wow babies would understand the benefits of using the game world over queues, instances, and garrisons.
>>335242867
Then it's just a chore that you need to do before you fight an instanced boss. The requirement would end up being just something you grind out for like the jedis in starwars galaxies.
Lame. Your idea is shit.
>>335242935
I think part of that reason is the fault of the consumer. There have been games in the past that were even specifically stated as online RPGs like PSO, and yet people still kept insisting on calling it a MMO despite the fact it was limited to like 4 player coop.
>>335242923
On the retail servers, most of the fun parts of the game you hear about were removed in favor of catering to the theme-park crowd when the game went f2p.
L2 still mantains the largest private server community of any other game though, even larger than the retail servers, so you can try there, but do expect alot of hyper-competitive elitists.
An old DAOC server that has been offline and being faithfully rebuilt for the last 2 years is going to open again in about 2 weeks for an open beta.
That's what I'll be playing again once it comes back up fully again. Pretty excited to be honest. It's one of the few mmo's I can keep going back to and enjoying.
>>335242191
I would like to actually see more resource limits in game that affect what you can do. Maybe not necessarily spells, but ammo/healing items or whatever too.
You know what I keep bumping into though? Messages that say my inventory is full because they limit it to hell and back to make you unlock them from cash shop.
>>335242537
>extremely difficult to discover
>queue up
Wow babies, everyone.
>>335242935
>Instanced raid bosses who only allow 5 players at the same time are the very antithesis of what a MMO stands for.
I definitely agree with this when boss content is kept on that level, though I don't see the harm in a mix. I think something like my idea works well when it's done on a more personal level.
>Seeing shit like Vindictus get labeled as MMO is misleading and retarded. I don't see Dark Souls or Diablo calling itself a MMO.
100% agree on this.
>>335242972
>What's the point of the admin controlling the boss if it's just going to be a dungeon boss?
Because fighting another person is fun, especially in an asymmetric style. The idea of getting to the point of fighting the creator of the world itself is also neat.
>>335242976
>Then it's just a chore that you need to do before you fight an instanced boss.
How so? You get your party and you click a button.
>>335243101
>extremely difficult to discover
>queue up
You're referencing 2 different things here, anon.
There's the hidden line of discoveries that eventually leads to the fight and then the fight itself.
>>335242867
A time-slot based boss fight....
You know, you could just make it a server event, with the GM appearing someplace as a really powerfull boss and all clans fighting over who gets to kill it while he rampages.
>>335239276
>FF14 has everything WoW has and a little extra besides
I wasn't a fan of the chalk like art style. The main storyline was too Moe. The abilities all have flashy effects, but the effects don't really correspond to what the abilities actually do so it just ends up being a light show. I couldn't stand the fact that areas were all gated off with loading times too.
>>335243229
see
>>335243206
I think it's more interesting when it's done on a personal level. The best of the best get to try their hand at beating the person who made it all.
A world-event is cool too don't get me wrong, but not what I'm looking for.
>>335243252
Not to mention the XIV world is basically a snake and ladders board and you're playing with a dice with all 1 on the face. By the time you reach the end of the scenario, you've seen every zone. At level cap you just idle in hubs and queue for instances. Shit tier mmo.
>>335234329
Star Wars Galaxies had the answer. You could potentially unlock every skill, class, etc. in the game, but you only had 250 skill points to spend around for equipping/activating the skills.
My main was a Teras Kasi Master (hand to hand combat), the unarmed tree from brawler (to access TKM), some blocks in scout for terrain negotiation (made it easier to run up hills), master medic (needed to access doctor), and some blocks in the doctor class (for crafting third tier buffs packs and being able to use them). I could tank, off tank, or DPS, back up heal, and buff before dungeons.
>>335236331
Drop equipped armor on death. Leave the weapon so they can fight back an get the pile of stuff. And make a timer on the items. In a game called dark ages, that's how it was. Certain items broke on death, others dropped, others stayed equipped when you died. Ten again here was an item called a "warranty bag" you could purchase when hunting so you didn't lose stuff on death
>>335243304
Then get the fuck out and look for a non mmo thread.
>>335243206
>You discovered the boss
>You can't fight him, you have to queue up for it first, everyone deserves a turn
Yeah, very climatic end to that line of discoveries.
Just face it, queues and instances don't belong and have never belong in an MMO. Let the boss roam and players fight it.
>>335243304
You see, this 'personal-level' thing shouldn't exist in a game that's supossed to be about grouping together with other players.
It just seems like something someone who's only played wow-clone themeparks and watched SAO would come up with.
>>335243412
To be fair, in regards to instances and ques, they take out a good chunk of the annoying things. Ques form up naturally in high traffic quests/dungeons anyways if the game isn't built around it.
It isn't uncommon in older MMOs to have players all bottlenecked at a spot trying to kill a boss or something and waiting on respawn timers which isn't fun for anyone involved.
Instances removes that problem for the most part.
>>335235053
Lose progress in leveling skills maybe?
>>335243406
Why does a single boss being an instance PvP fight make an entire game non-MMO?
>>335243412
>Yeah, very climatic end to that line of discoveries.
Of course the party that discovers it gets first dibs (not that that's all there is to it, a covenant wasn't the only part of discovering Ash Lake). If you've ever seen threads about ARG, a new Souls release or other things like that, people really enjoy just the act of discovering hidden content.
>Just face it, queues and instances don't belong and have never belong in an MMO
I definitely agree to this when the majority of content revolves around this. I can't stand games that just have you open a menu and click a button to automatically be matched with a party to run through a dungeon in silence for the 300th time. But I don't see the harm in pre-made parties fighting another person by themselves. It's a very personal thing for you and your comrades to take on the game's biggest challenge.
>>335243417
see above
>>335243551
instances introduced detachment from social aspects, detachment from accountability, encourages i-want-it-now entitlement.
![0s1Jrjs[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/utu2rKM.jpg "0s1Jrjs[1].jpg")
>>335242923
Pretty late. It got gutted years ago, although it still has a lot of nifty features so I guess it might be worth a try.
If you're korean then you're in luck though, they officially released some servers for the game before it was ruined,(think nostalrius) but with updated UI and models.
I honestly have no fucking idea why nobody is stealing shit from L2, it has so many neat things it's a crime.
>Free for All PvP with karma system, anyone can kill anyone but not without heavy consequences
>PKers have incredibly high item drop on death, which lead to players unofficially making PK-Hunting groups
>clan wars, killing members of enemy clan gives your entire clan "points". With enough points you can basically buy passives for every clan member such as 10% more health, 10% more defense, etc.
>castle sieges, you can use your clan to attack a castle defended by either NPCs or another clan to conquer it
>anyone can technically join the battle, but those who didn't get officially registered before the siege started will suffer greater penalty on death
>owner of the castle gets some sweet boons, such as the ability to put a tax rate on the nearby villages (i.e. taxrate 30%, all items sold at NPC vendors in the area will be 30% more expensive, and owner gets that 30% automatically in the warehouse)
>or a motherfucking flying dragon, the only flying mount in the game
>lots of world bosses
>Olympiad system where players can compete in 1 vs 1 duels, the best player in his class gets the title of "Hero" at the end of the month, together with a golden aura, some additional skills and some really strong weapons (none of those can be used in the olympiad though)
>cursed weapons as this guy mentioned >>335242512 which turns you into a slaughterhouse but everyone in the game can see you on the map and hunt you down
And many more.
I prefer games where you're dropped into the world and you make something of yourself rather than "YOU ARE THE HERO.... now collect 10 boar assholes to get my +1 piercing damage necklace"
>>335243709
Matchmaking systems for instanced content certainly did, but is there really harm in a small portion of content only being accessible to a party?
>>335243671
>i don't like sucking dicks but this idea i have involves sucking dicks i swear i'm not gay
Just stop pushing your idea and go play demon souls 1 and do the turban head boss fight or something.
>>335243709
Without instances, players were encouraged to go every man for themself. Steal that kill so you can keep playing, otherwise you're forced to wait. This is especially true in games that had quest progress independent per player, rather than tied to group progress.
>>335243821
You're going to have to make your point a little more concise, anon. This is an enjoyable discussion so I'm not sure why you're devolving into this.
I've never played a turn-based MMO and wonder how it could work out.
>>335243920
Mabinogi is okay I guess.
>>335243823
>a game creating multiple instances of a mob so that multiple players gain the objective/rewards at the same time
>somehow a game having one mob in the open world that multiple players gain the objective/rewards at the same time for cooperating is impossible
Where did this logic come from?
>>335243747
You forgot the absolutely BEST PvP system ever created.
I've never seen any other game such a good flagging mechanic.
>>335243823
This is why MMOs need to have open PvP mechanics.
>>335243885
>multiple people object to the idea, explain that it goes against the idea of mmos
>oh yea, i agree to that, definitely. but my idea is special!
>>335241618
non instanced raidbosses sound like a cool idea but it always just boils down to lolzergrush and the boss dies in 12 seconds because of the fuckload of people
>>335244006
Have you ever played an older MMO? Or is only stuff like WoW your only experience? The only way your way would work is if everyone in the area got kill credit, even if they did nothing to that enemy.
Even if you had anyone who tagged the boss get credit, you'd still have pileups of people waiting for the boss to spawn and it'd become a free for all the moment it did.
>>335243971
I played Mabinogi when it first started and I don't remember it being turn-based.
>>335244089
Depends on the boss.
Most of the time, it's groups fighting each other.
In L2, healers could use % based heals on bosses, making it impossible to kill a contested raid without killing other groups first.
>>335244082
Queueing up for an instance completely detached from the world through a menu where you have little to no interaction with random people for the 300th time is a bad system. Especially when it's used very often like you see in modern "MMOs".
If an entire MMO is sandbox-esque aside from a single PvP bossfight that not everyone can do at the same time (the reason for the queue), does that make the game not-MMO?
>>335244006
I remember doing the polished granite tomahawk heritage quest in EQ2. Had to kill a named griffin in the zone. It had a 6 hour respawn timer, and it could spawn from any of the griffin spawn points in the zone, but not if the griffin that spawned from that point was alive. There were 18 griffin spawns, and the chance for it to spawn from any one of these points, if the timer was up, was 2%.
My guild camped that area for about 3 days before it spawned, and a max level character that was powerleveling someone tapped it first, then just stood there as it did no damage to him. Took another 5 days before I was able to get the drop from it (joined a PUG, wasn't going to keep the whole guild back just because I wanted the item).
>>335244138
>Even if you had anyone who tagged the boss get credit, you'd still have pileups of people waiting for the boss to spawn and it'd become a free for all the moment it did.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
>>335244148
The combat system was designed around a pseudo turn-based time system. Basically the AI was coded so that it would put a move out and you would be reacting to it with a specific move. If you tried to just go out and attack or throw moves out, the entire system would break down and you'd be punished hard by the mob.
>>335244285
In which case you'd have people idling for credit or to XP farm. And before you say, don't give XP then, it'd cause quests and levels to become desynced after a while and force more grinding just so they're the proper level they should be at.
>>335244263
So what's the problem? That's the experience isn't it? Good or bad it's still part of how that world works.
It's like rolling on a pvp server and then complaining that you're getting ganked because all you want to do is level up to max level and thinking that getting exposed to the full package is not something you signed up for.
>>335243823
It's actually the other way around.
When players have to share mobs with other players they feel more compelled to form groups and share the xp and loot rather than compete with each other for it.
If they can make it all the way to levelcap without ever having to care about other players they will never feel as a part of a community of players.
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/e3jDAkG.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>335244089
In older MMOs mana was actually a valuable resource, you couldn't just blow your skillset as fast as possible at the boss and expect him to die. And world bosses could take plenty of hits. The boss actually going down was rare and a server-wide event, everyone and his mother on the server would know about it and be jealous of the guys who did it.
>Factorio + EvE
Now that would be a fun MMO. Too bad no one takes risks.
>>335243079
is it free?
link?
>>335244396
Are you talking about open world BOSS or quest mobs. It sounded like you were describing an open world boss at first because you referred to the special reward now you're referring to XP? Who the fuck relies on a mob that has HOURS of spawn window for xp? Get your arguments straight.
>>335244465
Thats only if they can kill it fast enough, if the respawn timer is slow enough, and if theres not too many people looking for the same thing.
>>335244263 is a good example of what the old school way of doing things before instances and ques were a thing, and hell even today you can still find remnants of that concept in some MMOs.
Further more, some games also have had individual quest progress. So even if your party member killed/looted something, it'd only count for them and not your full party especially for quests where its loot X of a certain item.
>>335233598
The only worthwhile MMO right now is Black Desert Online.
Everything else sucks.
>>335244678
>The only worthwhile MMO right now is a generic, P2W Korean grinding themepark MMO
Ha, no.
>>335244678
>All trade is performed via auction houses at prices set by the developers
try again
>>335244596
>Who the fuck relies on a mob that has HOURS of spawn window for xp?
Not him, and I'm not going to pretend the game was a great MMO, but MapleStory had instances of just that. People would get into KSing wars over area bosses that would spawn once ever 24-ish hours, sometimes more, for EXP mostly.
>>335244713
>P2W
Nothing in BDO is P2W.
>>335244474
I kind of want to see a boss that only spawns during full moons in an open pvp area.
the monthly cluster-fuck would be glorious.
>>335244678
Only if you play the original korean CBT that was actually a sandbox MMO.
Current BDO is literally just the MMO version of Spore.
>>335244678
>not a real sandbox, only has the potentially frustrating features of one
>not a theme-park either
It somehow manages to alienate both crowds.
>>335244772
>cash shop with cosmetics that increase stats and inventory size/weight increasing items, as well as pets that collect gear and better mounts and upgrading materials
It is P2W. End of discussion.
>>335244772
>Pets that loot bodies for you and significantly speed up the cumulative weeks you'll spend farming
try again
>>335244596
Quest mobs and bosses. If its tied to a quest and in the open world, older games have had bottlenecks happen on them.
As for referring to XP, did you not read what was stated? If you just grant completion to everyone in the area, but don't reward any XP for it, the design curve of the game goes out of wack after a while. Also, I wasn't suggesting waiting hours for XP, but rather saying thats an example of what happens without instances. Even with quicker timers, you still wind up waiting and in a free for all with everyone present.
>>335244772
>Ghillie Suit
>>335244809
That's what happens when your publisher forces you to suddenly shift focus from sandbox players to internet cafe retards 2/3 of the way through development.
>>335244678
>>335244772
Even without any of the P2W stuff it's still a boring empty world
>>335244881
>i-it wasn't the d-developer's fault!
so you admit it's a bad game then?
>>335244829
Cosmetics don't increase stats. They only have +10% exp bonus.
Inventory size/weight increasing items are given to you through questing.
Pets don't collect gear, mounts, or upgrading materials. They autoloot.
>>335244835
>autolooting pets
Oh jeez, that's your issue?
>>335244881
>>Ghillie Suit
What about it? It hides your name. BIG WHOOP.
>>335244961
Confirmed for never having played.
>>335244963
It's 100% a bad game, which is unfortunate because during the original kCBT it was shaping up to be an actual modern sandbox MMO before DAUM took over.
>>335244993
>hes so retarded he thinks I was talking about pets collecting things, rather than the pets being P2W by themselves
holy shit my fucking sides
Okay kid, you go back to your P2W MMO.
Or are you really so desperate for players already you have to shill it on /v/?
>>335244837
And how exactly did I ever suggest that standing around in the zone without even seeing the mob would grant the completon tick mark for killing it? Hell, how did you even come to the conclusion that that's the norm, the standard thing that would happen in an open world mmo? Just stepping in the zone and having someone else on the other side of the zone killing something and you'd get credit for it? Am I talking to a troll here?
>>335244993
>P2W cash shop apologizing
>10% xp and autolooting p-pets aren't that b-b-big of a deal goys!
everytime
>aion
>rift
>tera
>b&s
>bdo
>skyforge
is there ANY non shitty mmo?
>>335245092
Read the fucking comment chain before you start asking dumb questions like this.
>>335245085
>rather than the pets being P2W by themselves
How is an autolooting pet P2W?
>>335245096
It's not? It's a non-issue.
>>335245061
>End-game is allegedly about PvP
>Sell an item that gives you an advantage in the stealth meta of PvP
>th-that doesn't count tho
lmao @ ur life
>>335244993
>>335245061
>p-please come play with me, i dont want to be alone :(
Its your own fucking fault for falling for a scam. We fucking told you it failed in Korean and Russia and yet you fucking spent MONEY to pay for a F2P game in the rest of the world.
Well done, you're literally the most stupid type of MMO consumer.
>>335244837
I know what you mean.
Anyone who's played L2 back in the day will still have nightmares about Barakiel.
>World boss part of important quest, party who gets last hit gets the item
>random tank shows up and aggroes it at it spawns
>random healears healing and buffing the boss
>random tank runs with the boss for 2 hours with 600 people training behind
It did create some hillarious situations and PvP sometimes.
>>335245156
It's P2W. We're all desperate for a good MMO but have some dignity dude.
Some traits of my ideal resource focused MMO.
>free for all pvp with safe zones in town, but penalties for PKers
>very few item drops, most are crafted by players
>you get exp for crafting, to the point where you could reach max level with just crafting AS LONG as you had enough money to keep crafting good things for high exp (a starting player couldn't possibly level up fast with crafting, but someone who already has character with a shitton of money could)
>resources and crafting materials are very heavy and will make you encumbered with just a couple
>to carry them you need to put them in crates
>crates can be carried by hand ( just one), with donkeys ( a couple) or carriages ( a lot)
>they move at a relatively mediocre speed, slower than players but faster than encumbered players
>crates cannot be transported with global teleport,portals or fast travel
>resources are limited and different in each area, forest has a lot of wood, mountains have a lot of ores, ocean has underwater resources, etc.
>meaning that wood is very expensive in the desert villages but very cheap in the forest ones, players can make money by carrying resources from one town to another
>no global auction house
Archeage had a lot of potential but it failed in many aspects.
>>335245156
>I-its a nonissue!
Then why does everyone always make an issue with how P2W BDO is?
Its a fucking P2W game, get over it.
And yes, pets that fucking do all the work for you is pretty fucking P2W. You cant get them any other way and their benefit is unmatched. Its pure P2W horseshit.
>>335245061
Played it for 2 weeks, it's a shit game anon
>>335245097
NCSoft used to make a pretty good MMO in the past, then they start cattering to korean internet cafe user
>>335234685
Leveling is always my most memorable experience of mmos desu. All the little encounters with people and the exploring new areas. I always get bored fast of end game raiding etc.
>>335245152
YOU read the comment chain. Look to the part where I quoted one line of yours that was referring to world boss fights. You suddenly moved goal posts to >getting xp for mobs you didnt touch
>>335244772
>has a cash shop where you can buy advantages
So its P2W.
Its that simple. There are no buts ifs or whats about it. If you can pay money and get an advantage, its a P2W game.
>>335245230
Fun fact: That's exactly how Archeage was supossed to be.
Archeage was made by the creator of L2. Your first two points already exist in L2.
He wanted to expand what he created in L2, but he wasn't allowed by the publisher.
>>335245230
i think silkroad had something similar to this with addition of caravan raiding faction and caravan guards faction.
i can be wrong though i never really got into it because of how hard it was to get into the servers.
>>335245230
>>335245376
I would pay for a decent non-p2w private server of archeage
>>335236982
>keeps the economy running
That's a good point. I missed out on these sorts of mmos but having gear that doesn't last forever and needs to be repaired/remade makes tradesman characters viable so not everyone has to be a monster hunter, people can fill the rules of npc.
>>335245321
You know, by this definition, XIV is a p2w mmo
>can pay for more npc banks
>npc banks can be sent out to gather items and make more auction sales
>more chances to make gold
>players who pay cash for these can have an advantage getting fully melded crafted gear to tackle raids much faster than those who don't
But the white knight shills would dismiss this just outright.
>no levels
>no classes
>just you, your gear, and the economy
>finding resources, refining them, manufacturing goods
>frequent cataclysmic events that fuck the world and everything up so people cant just sit down and relax
>playing solo is impossible, you'll die without others
To be announced; never
Cant have difficulty in an MMO after all.
>>335245261
There is some kind of law in Korea that says you can only play an MMO for X hours per day, so they changed their games to more instant gratification stuff, aka catering to the theme-park babies.
>>335245428
Been playing L2 private servers since 2005. Non p2w private server is almost impossible.
The files cost alot of money, file protection extensions cost alot of money, ddos protections costs alot of money.
>>335245520
Who gives a fuck about fucking XIV shills? It's a bad game regardless of being P2W.
>>335245208
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one whos actually played an old school style MMO thinks instances are a bad thing. And fuck, I haven't even touched on dealing with loot drops at all yet.
>>335245520
The fact is most people cant admit the games they play are P2W because they think it somehow reflects poorly on them, on a fucking anonymous image board of all things.
I play many P2W games, at least I have the dignity to admit it.
>>335233598
OLDSCHOOL RUNESCAPE NIGGERS
>>335245316
Bud, if you can't put two and two together you don't have enough braincells to continue talkin with.
YOU HAVE 10 SECONDS TO NAME ME A GOOD MMO TO PLAY RIGHT NOW
>>335245602
>Yeah I'm pretty sure no one whos actually played an old school style MMO thinks instances are a bad thing.
See the guy in this thread arguing that a single boss fight that's instanced because it's PvP makes the game not an MMO.
will this be the one to save the mmo genre?
>>335245671
Um, ah
Jackie Chan?
>>335245671
Pso2, Blade and tits, FFXIV
>>335245671
Tree of Savior.
>>335245758
>FFXIV
>>335245651
It's alright. I can tell you're a hypocrite who claims to want a real open world mmo but in your heart you just want another instanced galore wow clone.
>>335245681
>>335245602
They are a bad thing though.
Sure, a quest boss being open world and only few can take it can create frustrations, but it's also part of the game and you gotta deal with it.
In that same game, there was another super important quest that required you to kill 4 world bosses. THose bosses dropped a chest on death that anyone could talk to and get the quest item.
It's just that some quest bosses were made in a way so only few people can complete the quest.
It truly made you feel special and unique without resorting to 'chosen one' questline bullshit.
>>335245602
I did, and I do.
If you're not capable of securing the raid grounds and either killing everyone who comes to the boss or assimilating them in your group then you fail as a clan leader and don't deserve any drops. Doubly so if you're dumb enough to let an enemy robe-wearer get in range to cast Restoration.
I always made sure gladiators,necromancers and overlords were the first line of defense against other players.
>>335245782
Never once said that, but I can tell the oldest MMO you've played must be WoW.
>>335245759
He said MMO dumbfuck, not a public RPG.
>>335245681
Sell it to me mang. What does it do different? What business model does it have?
>>335245541
I doubt you can do worse than Trion's p2w stuff in Archeage
>>335245759
That game might as well be singleplayer if it's still the way it was in beta.
>>335245878
Fuck you I'll never find that response not funny
>>335245770
the best sub based mmo right nowbecause everything else is shit
>>335245826
How is this an insult? Would you be proud if you played UO and still browsed 4chan at 30+?
>>335245948
So is FFXIV.
>>335245889
Older L2 private servers used to sell godly gear for money.
The habit sorta died and 'donations' are more balanced nowadays, but a private server is still a bunch of college students trying to scrape together a server. Most of the time they can't cover the costs themselves.
>>335245965
So tempted to let the guy think this is the same guy he's been arguing with.
>>335246002
it's the least smelly shit out of them all though
>>335245965
Would you be proud that the highschool bike was your first girlfriend? That halo was your first shooter?
>>335245948
He asked for a good MMO, not the one that's the best smelling shit.
>>335246010
Thank god they are releasing an official "classic server" of L2
>>335245792
For a rare boss spawn or something, thats kind of okay. Annoying as shit, but they're suppose to be rare and difficult. For common quest related shit? You're getting nothing special out of them beyond being able to continue your quest chain.
>>335245807
That'd only work in a PVP centric game [ Which a lot of older MMOs did have admittedly. ] but even still that makes things only worse rather than better. Having only the largest groups camping out a spawn preventing anyone else from progressing is obnoxious as shit. Especially if its quest related.
If its just an unrelated rare drop boss or something then sure thats fine. But I'm specifically talking about quest crap.
>>335246043
But it's still not good.
>>335246067
all mmos are shit you retard
>>335233598
i just want a mmo that feels massive.
shit tons of people all on the same server, no instancing, in a world that would take literal days to travel across.
not a shit space game either, i mean a fucking WORLD.
rpg classes are hard to fuck up so as long as its not retarded and sticks to traditional stat stacking and the like it would be a smash hit.
>>335245853
It's just an another savior to the list. The details don't matter yet.
Camelot Unchained
Crowfall
Gloria Victis
Albion Online
Take your pick.
I just want Wildstar back :(
>>335246078
>Having only the largest groups camping out a spawn preventing anyone else from progressing is obnoxious as shit.
No, that's the fucking POINT OF THE GAME. It forces people to group up and fight that other group and then /sit on their corpses and go on the forums and call them fags.
>>335246136
>no instancing
impossible for a modern MMO due to server stress
>>335246078
>For a rare boss spawn or something, thats kind of okay. Annoying as shit, but they're suppose to be rare and difficult. For common quest related shit? You're getting nothing special out of them beyond being able to continue your quest chain.
You're basically arguing as if most mmos use 24 hour+ long spawn time mobs for menial quests like they're the standard. Like an mmo would have a thousand quests and 900 of them would have mob objectives that spawn every few days. They don't. At most, if someone gets to the quest first before you, you're being made to wait 15 mins or less.
>>335246090
if it really wasn't good they would have gone F2P years ago like every other MMO that failed.
>>335246243
>what are multiple servers
>>335245671
>>335245948
EVE is probably better then FF XIV, and it's awful.
reminder this is what runescape looks like today
>>335246347
>popularity = quality
>>335246347
>It's good because it's popular.
>>335246435
yeah dude a second job is better than a shitty game lmao
>>335246313
Even when the respawn timer is quick, its still causes problems in high traffic areas. I'm guessing you've never personally experienced this, which is why you're arguing that its fine.
>>335246240
That only works if the game is PVP, which most MMOs these days are not exclusively, and is also suggesting that the groups would only be from other factions as well.
>>335246467
They had to do it, the old guard had left already anyway
>>335246435
I love the concept of EvE, but the game is so dull to play.
>>335246539
What do you mean 'the game is PvP'?
What do you classify as a 'PvP game'? Any game where open world PvP and PKing is allowed? THat used the be the norm.
>>335246528
nice meme bro let me have a try
uh. EVE is like windows excel spreadsheets? Right? LOL
>>335246078
>Having only the largest groups camping out a spawn preventing anyone else from progressing is obnoxious as shit. Especially if its quest related.
>If its just an unrelated rare drop boss or something then sure thats fine. But I'm specifically talking about quest crap.
That guy was talking about Lineage though, which is why I'm also bringing up points from lineage.
There are only 4 important quests in the entire game. Out of those 3 of them are "necessary" but they can't be monopolized by groups.(class change quests, which are personal) The last important quest is the Nobless quest which is optional and you need to kill the Barakiel that guy mentioned.
Here's the thing though, you NEED a big group to kill Barakiel, it's not the sort of quest you finish alone. That's why you either ask your clan to help or join a party with other people who need to kill Barakiel. Someone who already finished the quest once doesn't gain much from killing him, so the only reason they could have to bother you is spite or boredom. But again the quest is optional and the entire point of MMOs is team work and groups. You don't reach level 78 and the criteria required to start nobless quest and don't already have a group of friends or clan.
Quests being the sole way to level up is the plague of new MMOs. I very much enjoyed territory contests.
>>335246528
Don't play MMO then, dumbass.
>>335246693
buttmad evefag detected
>>335244138
>>335246539
The game could spawn the boss in random locations. This freeform queue discussion is tripe.
>>335245602
Instances are awful for interesting play. It can be there if alternatives exist, but for main game design, the game might as well not be an MMO.
>>335246678
The gameplay? It's just D3 in space.
>>335246693
except thats exactly what it is lmao
