Should video games really punish you for being bad at video games?
>>335011045
Yes
Git gud
like, I thought that was just an expression she was conveying in that one image that's posted everywhere but that's actually just her face.
>>335011045
No.
Video games are a product. You spend money on the product with the promise of entertainment. Punishing you for being bad at the game is essentially false advertising AND theft because you paid for something you are not actually receiving.
>>335011272
They are not actually the same people.
>>335011045
I feel old, that was called expert difficulty.
It was a thing, people could chose how hard they would want it, the hardest one was the original difficulty, and then it was made easier on each one to train yourself, they even let you increase it in mid game.
>>335011045
some, not all
some need easy mode "I WIN"
>>335011302
unless the product is directed towards people who find entertainment in having a game that punishes for bad plays?
>>335011582
That punishment should be part of the fun though.
For example, getting outskilled is hilarious if it means you get rape-trained the first time but it takes just a small modification to playstyle to survive the next encounter.
For example, coming across a fighter in Ring Runner that makes a trail of fire while dragging an enemy ship through it was amazingly effective, but it would mean unavoidable death for the fighter if the ship it was dragging used a damage reflector.
>>335011880
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why games are becoming casual shit
i think the rewards for getting good is just as important as the difficulty
>http://gamerant.com/dark-souls-easy-mode-opinion/
>Even so, I feel like even more money is being left on the table due to how inaccessible the Dark Souls franchise is to the more casual crowd. An optional difficulty setting would allow those that just want to experience the gothic horror atmosphere the games provide, and could go a long way in expanding the franchise’s player base even further.
>tfw you live in the same universe as these people
>>335012208
>artificial difficulty game has an easy mode without artificual difficuly
>>335011045
Should games have game play?
>>335011045
Shouldn't be anything by decree, but non-challenging gameplay, or gameplay that takes away some of the skill you'd normally need is highly advisable to make a profit, just like expensive marketing, good graphics, etc.
>>335011302
Games require the player to make conscious decisions, it's not a passive medium like movies. So some skill is needed to be able to enjoy a video game. A good game will teach the player the fundamentals of the game in the beginning and gradually increase the difficulty as the player becomes more proficient at the game's mechanics.
>>335011302
>Film is a product. You should spend money on a film with the promise of entertainment. Being challenging or unpleasant is essentially false advertising and theft because you paid for something you are not actually receiving.
>>335012208
>dark souls is hard meme
literally the only way to do that is to not play the game
Fuck this thread.
Post your best TRIGGEREDs
>>335011045
No
I am bad at video games
I still enjoy them
I play on easy difficulty (very easy, if available) and I cheat
I don't play online pvp because people being good actually ruins the fun for me
I want simple, easy fun with QTEs and game-breaking abilities
>>335011045
Absolutely.
>>335011302
You're not paying for the end of the game, you're paying for the chance to play. It's like paying to play ring toss at a carnival, it doesn't mean you have to get the prize.
Should a book tell a story? Is water wet? etc etc
>>335012670
Never played any dark souls or any souls game.
I just dont like 3rd person games, its a shit from the past.
>inb4 mdk
>>335012718
and auto aim is the bomb
I think we need to talk consent in video games, sister.
Whenever I play Hearthstone, it's SO creepy for other players to say "Greetings" to me as their male character to my female character when I've given them no indication that they're allowed to greet me.
Then, without my consent, they start swinging their man penis around and attacking my life points.
How can any self-respecting woman deal with this abuse?
>>335012208
Bamco already made a game for those turbo casuals
>>335012762
there's no real difficulty unless you make it for yourself other than the unknown
if you remove what the normies call difficulty all you get is a movie
>mfw playing a game and getting a game over
What's the point? I play games to relax, not get frustrated.
>>335012863
Nice, it almost sounded real
>>335012943
All i see is people doing roll dodges like doing a nonstop parryfest in MGR.
>>335011045
yes. if you dont like it, play on easy mode like the rest of the children.
>>335012863
BUENOS AIRES
If you want your game to be easy peasy then that's fine.
If you want your game hard as balls that's also fine.
Video Games are a huge market and there is room for every niche and mainstream appeal game out there. I seriously don't understand why people want to change a particular game into something that isn't.
If you don't like something because it's too hard, go elsewhere and vice versa.
The problem is these people wants this medium to be like other mediums (films, literature). It is ridicilous that there are those that want to take away the qualities of a game to make it like a movie with minimal player input
>>335013276
This is why a split is better than a crash.
>>335013180
>tfw If i truly love a game I will play it on medium for accuracy of the game.
Otherwise I will play it on easy because i'm too impatient and my best days of gaming are past me.
You buy a game, you fucking take the time to learn its mechanics, it's as simple as that. Video games are not a passive medium. You want to experience a story without doing anything? Watch a damn movie
There are plebs out there who don't beat games they like on every difficulty? Tsk tsk.
>>335013104
then play another game
no point of forcing a game known for "game overs" and shit to change
thats their shtick
who wins in the videogame when there are no losers?
>>335013571
>anime avatar
>>335011302
Fuck off retard.
>>335013571
liberals
>>335013571
>no losers
I hate this saying.
You lose time, and money, there is your (you)
>>335013145
good comparison, that games a lot faster than dank souls though
It depends.
>>335013571
the person entertained the most
you never jumped into 2 player training mode in a fighting game, set health to infinite, slapped on a playlist and just gone at it for twenty minutes?
>>335011045
Is being forced to complete a difficult part you failed at a punishment, or is it a chance to get better at the game before moving onto something more challenging?
>>335013691
The fox engine version looked more realistic and slow paced.
Still the spam method to win is there, but with that backstab shit or like that sanic vid who lure enemies into a whole, shit was fucking hilarious.
>>335013773
I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing in that game but I always have fun.
>>335011045
Theoretically? No, if you're bad at something your failure and lack of success despite persistence should be enough.
However since some people have curiously found ways to cheap around the challenge with enough persistence, which in a way is not necessarily and efficient form of problem solving but commendable determination towards it, most games have to find a way to get the message across at some point.
For example in DMC3 some people might approach mob management by focusing on one enemy and just hoping the rest leave them be, get frustrated when that doesn't turn out to be the case, acquire an assortment of health and revive items and somehow make it to the Agni and Rudra battle.
This is where the bullshit stops. If you kill one and not the otherin a very unsafe fashion you're going to be hurting. It's not exactly a super difficult gatekeeping scenario there are still ways around beating both simultaneously but the point is much like enemy DT in DMD it's a hint that you're doing it wrong.
So tl;dr Actually, yes. Some people cannot learn any other way.
Inb4
>Why should I learn? It's a game. It's supposed to be about fun.
That's cute and all, but there's literally no excuse not to learn, the very idea of actively avoiding a lesson is detrimental to your capacity to...well be capable. Even the simple and somewhat random lose states in party games like Monopoly have a lesson buried under them in how the player engages things. Don't spend too much, don't spend too little, keep aware of what the other players are doing, etc.
So my response to that possible inquiry is: Just fucking pay attention man, why are you even playing if you don't actually want to even play? Go jack off if you just want to be handed a quick reward.
>>335013862
I played liero with maxed health and no reload times, it was pure lottery of whoever survives the danmaku waves of missiles, spiky bombs and nukes
>>335011302
>Anon, I just set up your favorite game!
>>335011045
Most definitely. That way they maintain the risk/reward ratio. It's what makes you feel fulfilled.
>>335013986
It'd because it's a great game, where people fuck up in the most hillarious ways.
>>335014037
I dont have a color match to know where they go.
ITS TOO DIFFICULT.
>>335011302
So you shouldnt have to actually watch or pay attention to movies to enjoy them and you should be entertained by a book without actually having to put the effort into reading it then huh? I guess the basketball in my garage is supposed to give me enjoyment without me having to go out and actually play with it too huh?
>>335014084
how do you lose 11 units fighting nothing
>>335011045
I follow the TotalBiscuit school of thought. The more choices the better. If the customer wants to skip to the end of the last level it should be their right to do so. If the player wants God mode it should be their right to have God mode. Just as it's your right to be challenged. Stop worrying about how others play the game they payed for, autists.
>>335014037
You mean I'd have to individually push each block in any time I wanted to play this game? Fuck that, bro, gimme the "press triangle to put all shapes in correct spaces" option.
>>335014129
>anti-color blind mechanics
Quit promoting your non-inclusive game agendas.
>>335014189
>>335012743
>>335012605
Apples and oranges.
>>335011045
How are you being punished? If it didn't involve developing any sort of skill it wouldn't be a game. If you don't like to be challenged then you have bigger problems than video games.
>>335014029
>>335014287
how? the movie and book sure, but basketball is a fucking game. Sports and video games are both games with rules, objectives, etc. if I stand around on the field and everyone yells at me for being a dumbass than I'm not enjoying the football I paid money for but thats MY fault. If a video game kicks my shit in, I should get better.
>>335014270
People must learn because they could fuck it up.
Imagine if they have to assemble this?
>>335012718
You must love Symphony Of The Night.
Yes. If you're too dumb to understand words in a book you don't bitch and moan until the author re-writes it for your retarded ass.
Also, 90% of games have modes so itty bitty faggoty babies can play their itty bitty faggot baby mode if they want to.
>>335014218
It's technically not "nothing", but 1PD, which is the 3 dudes on the left.
But to answer your questions: by giving non-poison resistant mages barrels of living mercury, which spawn poisonous elementals in front of them.
>>335014189
Every time you fail to put a basketball in a hoop the NBA should pay you a fine because their privileged employees promoted an inaccurate image of how fun basketball is.
>>335014463
On the right I mean.
>>335011045
Is not finishing the game a punishment now? You don't even have to play the game if you don't want to, you can just play another.
>>335013570
I was just pretending to dislike game over games. I bet you feel pretty foolish right now.
>>335011045
>Should video games really punish you for being bad at video games?
This is much less frustrating than being punished for being good at games
>>335013104
The better you become at them, the more relaxing they'll be
>>335014218
province defense held them long enough to accidentally friendly fire each other to death?
>>335014410
Gattai!
>>335011045
Absolutely, but that era of gaming is long gone. It's all about "cinematic experiences" now.
>>335012417
While I'd never use it, any game where the player would always be the same before and after a mission (Portal games, for example) can easily include the feature. Really, all that needs to be done is to make developer tools for skipping between parts of the game more easily accessible to the player.
It wouldn't harm the people playing the game normally, and it would benefit both the producer and the players who dislike gameplay.
>>335014774
>This is much less frustrating than being punished for being good at games
FUCKING THIS
U
C
K
I
N
G
T
H
I
S
I'm looking at you, Bioshock.
>>335014774
>>335015030
Can you name some examples?
![FnyAJLG[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VWfmvqS.jpg "FnyAJLG[1].jpg")
>>335015005
This kills the fan.
>>335014463
Anon, I like 4x games, will I enjoy this?
>>335011302
You paid for what you got, you not accepting personal responsibility is on you.
What kind of faggot plays in Easy Modo?
>game has Credits available on the title menu
What is this? You don't even need to play the game to complete it!
Watching the credits means you're done with the game, right?
>>335011045
Yes they should depending on game because it does force you to actually think ahead and not just rush in.
I hate games that are press x to win.
>>335011045
yes, nothing ventured nothing gained.
>hurr I beat this easy forgiving video game look at me
Eat shit
>>335011045
Yes.
>>335015027
>players
>players that dont like game"play"
>>335015027
>players who dislike gameplay.
Why the fuck do you play games then?
>>335015141
Do you like the crazy magic Master of Magic and the old Age of Wonders and wondered if you could go even further?
Do you mind spending 300 hours being a scrub until you somewhat know what you are doing, with more advanced techniques being still out of your grasp?
Do you mind only playing a single turn each day with PBEM (play by email)?
Can you deal with people bullying you?
>>335011045
Video games should be whatever the fuck their creators wanted them to be.
If some devs want to spoonfeed the players and make sure that everybody can finish the game then that's fine, and at the same time if a developer wants to make a game with a high barrier of entry then that's fine too.
If you don't like something, don't buy it.
Would you walk into a cake shop and demand that they make you a cookie because you don't want cake that day?
>>335015292
Would have put it in sarcastic quote marks, but I didn't want to give mixed messages.
>>335015313
But clearly this guy has mixed up that very clear message on his own, because I open with "While I'd never use it" he suggests that I want to use it.
>>335015134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_u18_BKczg
Always relevant
>>335015339
Are we talking dwarf fort level of FUN? Sign me up.
>>335015436
I didn't mean you in general - i meant a "player" who dislikes gameplay. That's like saying you're a "audiophile", but dislike music.
should football punish you for being bad at football?
>>335011045
every time
every single time YES
>>335011302
then why not hire a butler to beat the game for you?
Why do so many people wear cat eye glasses yet have such horrible facial shapes for them
>>335011045
>an empty victory
or
>a well deserved victory
GEE BOSS, I DUNNO
>>335015498
Aha.
Well, in that case, players have a very good reason to play games without actually playing the game parts; the story!
Games will often have longer stories than movies which is good if you're into that, you can delve deep into detail or ignore it at will, and sometimes they'll have multiple paths.
Undertale is a good example of a game where someone might just want to skip all the combat, people take more interest in the story. Although the combat should be easy enough if you aren't a paraplegic with parkinson's.
>>335015073
Winning fights you're not supposed to gives you the exact same outcome as losing it except you may have spent scarce resources to attain victory.
Optimal strategy in a game is boring as fuck so you get punished with boredom because you're not retarded. have to git bad for the game to git gud.
Game has p2w mechanics *and* matchmaking so if your skill level is far above your bracket but your player level isn't you advance up the ladder faster than your stats do. You get put into frustrating as fuck matches with players that outgear you heavily instead of the gradual ladder progression a 60/40 win rate would have gotten you.
and finally the most obvious one
The game is easy as fuck from minute 0 and you're too fucking skilled for the game. But you keep assuming it's going to get better, it's going to get interesting and it's going to get challenging. It never does. It was a total waste of your time and you were bored as fuck for the duration of it. Worse case scenerio is that you willingly gave away money to be bored for 20+ hours. Every second playing the game you're hoping like a retard that it's going to get better. But it never does.
>>335011045
Failure isn't punishment. It's part of the learning process. If you can't do it wrong, what's the point of doing it?
>>335011045
DEPENDS ON THE AUDIENCE YOU'RE HOPING TO GO FOR
>>335015073
>>335015980
To add to this. Games that give the player a helping hand when they are struggling. AKA rewarding shit playing. Such as in a single player survival game, giving more items/ammo to players that have less meaning that conservative players who saved their ammo and were resource conscious end up with the same as players who went rambo.
Or rubber banding AI in racing games.
>>335011302
Who the fuck blames books when you're too retarded to read them or movies when you're blind so you can't watch them? Why are people so fucking stupid about video games and why do they always try to come up with dumb explanations like these?
>>335015450
I learned DF within a week.
Nothing compared in level of complexity.
The basic principle of the game is simple. The combat using "regular" units, the building part etc. Magic research, setting up up the mage support of your army, countering whatever strategy you enemy comes up with is the meat of the game, since there are so many crazy and/or silly possibilities.
Also you have completely freeform diplomacy which is interesting.
>>335012417
>>335015027
>>335015774
Holy fuck I'm mad.
>>335012208
It has an easier mode. Just fucking summon.
>>335012417
Isn't this just the equivalent of the dreaded watching cutscenes or an LP on youtube?
I see no reason the developers to put in a fast forward feature in the game game when the service is already self generating.
>>335015996
Exactly this. Limited lives but unlimited continues is probably the best format for this. Like in classicvania.
>>335012208
>changing the core of your game for a hypothetically larger audience
Holy fuck, if you want a different game, play a different game. Every game doesn't have to cater to every type of player.
>>335016605
Not necessarily because it makes people play the games wrong. For example people think them beating Castlevania after continuing a million times is legit instead of practice for a real run.
>>335014410
>PS4.98.jpg
>>335016716
it seems like they are talking more about the businesses perspective. obviously it'd be awesome for any business if the target audience is the entire market.
>>335011045
Yes, remove the weak so that only the strong remain or the weak become stronger.
![9b3[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/zburU79.png "9b3[1].png")
>>335018435
If that punishment means replaying the same parts of the game again (the case in most games), then no, I don't think the game should punish you. The fact that this has carried on this long and didn't die out with token taker arcade games boggles my mind. Wasting a player's time is never acceptable. Instead of punishing the player by wasting their time and making them redo segments of the game, why not reward the player for not dying?
>>335018560
>Watched the Armstrong cutscenes the other day
>Wants to make America great again
>Mfw
Does art imitate life, or does life imitate art?
>>335011045
Yeah cause that what a game is. A fucking test of skill for fun. Tests of any sort must have fail states. So one almost entirely by definition must be published for doing and being bad at a skill test.
What games actually PUNISH you for being BAD? Those are the keywords, and I can't think of a single one that does.
>>335019713
But games are supposed to be waste of time. If you play for any other reason than passing time, I feel sorry for you, anon.
>>335019713
Are you saying that you should just immediately respawn exactly where you were with full life and no setbacks? That doesn't make sense, but that seems like what you're saying. That's absolutely no challenge and super boring.
>>335011302
You wouldn't even know to enjoy or cherish a bad film if your life would depend on it.
You don't know how to watch movies at all, son, probably don't care about camera angle, how they filmed that, what the angle implicates etc...
fuck you for being casual, you shiteater
>>335011045
Yes, hide all the crazy shit we like to see behind a difficulty barrier. Watch SJW's and feminists stop making videos about mysogyknee in video games and leave us all the fuck alone.
>>335020310
The thing that makes me cringe the most is people who try to sound like they know shit about films.
>>335019973
Both son
Depends on the game you fucking retard. Games shouldn't universally shit on you for not knowing about the upcoming instakill like I Wanna Be The Guy, but neither should have they universally have a kill-everything-in-one-hit infinite health "story mode."
>>335020363
Good that you don't know anything, i worked in media for 5 years, you probably sit in your cellar and watch movies all night and fap to your favorite child actress, you /tv/ pedophile
>>335020449
Alright kiddo, quite down and lurk more. This is /v/ not /tv/ stay OT.
>>335020449
I don't go on /tv/ you mongoloid. I don't give a shit what you did or didn't do, you still sound like a twat.
>>335020503
>>335020504
Good that you don't prove me wrong, while shittalking
>>335020585
No one is refuting your sperg statement, stay on topic faggot.
FUCK YEAH
WHAT'S THE POINT OTHERWISE?
Interactive illustrated tale book? nah.
>>335014238
>programmers have to waste more time programming shit for special snowflakes like you
Fuck off and die.
>>335011045
It is not a game if it doesn't have at least one risk and reward factor, vidya or otherwise.
Yes, the ultimate video game.
>>335011045
>bayoneta switches off witch time for a bit
If you're going to have one difficulty in a game it should be challenging to the average user but not ball-crushingly punishing. Punishing a player is typically an indicator of poor game design choices, but not always so. An example of this is changing the rules of the environment mid-game. If health potions always heal you through the first half of the game and then suddenly kill you randomly for the last half with no indicators or warnings, that's shit design and breaches into the territory of the unfair. The antithesis to this is the Mimic enemy that appears in many fantasy games. Many games use this element well.
Ideally, a game has 4-5 difficulties.
1. The challenge is removed from the game, allowing the player to play at their own pace with little sense of urgency or danger, and to experience a story if there is one. Rewards aren't as great, and the game essentially plays itself. Easy doesn't quite describe it. Effortless is more appropriate.
2. A dumbing down of the standard difficulty. Easy. Not quite challenging but you can fuck up if you aren't paying attention for too long or make purposely bad decisions.
3. Normal. This is how the game was intended to be played. Challenge is apparent, but the game isn't unfair.
4. Hard. All games should have a hard mode, or post game content in my opinion. At the start of a hard playthrough, challenge should be equivalent to about 2/3 through the way of a normal playthrough and it should continue to be difficult until the end.
5. Extreme, or Plus. The game should be at least twice as challenging as hard, adding additional content not seen in a normal, easy, or effortless. Plus is a variation on the theme. Introduce new guidelines and rules to increase the difficulty or challenge, like time limits or clearing areas completely or without taking damage/being seen. This should also be the only difficulty where AI should be allowed to cheat, but it shouldn't be obvious.
>>335021712
>3. Normal. This is how the game was intended to be played. Challenge is apparent, but the game isn't unfair.
who says all games are meant to be "challenge is apparent but the game isn't unfair"?
>>335011158
/thread
How about
Difficulty settings that aren't named "hard", "le epically difficult" or "story mode", but
>spawn rate
>hp scaling
or even
>projectile prediction coefficient
>max decision tree nodes
>>335014410
Beautiful
>>335021712
>The game isn't unfair
Oh go fuck yourself.
Who defines what is unfair? Easy mode is considered unfair if you are retarded.
>>335021803
>>335022051
Yeah I had a point that I was going for, but the point got kind of long-winded and I lost my train of thought.
"Unfair" is what I would define as the game cheating in order to keep you from winning. Rubber banding is a good example of this in cart racing games. On lower difficulties it's hardly noticeable, but on higher difficulties (see my 5th point) the game actually starts to cheat against you to keep the challenge.
The other aspect of "unfair" is the game changing the rules without making it clear that the rules have changed, if that makes any sense.
>easy mode is considered unfair if you are retarded
Stellar point, but does their lack of skill make their point valid? If a game lays out the rules that the red gun is for red enemies and the blue gun is for blue enemies, and you insist on using the red gun on blue enemies, and you cry the game is unfair, is your point valid? Or are you just retarded?
>>335021960
I like that a lot more. Choose for yourself what sort of difficulties should be applied to the game. Kind of like Bastion where you can challenge yourself further
>>335021960
Because these types of options appeal to a "hard" audience. I bet shitters complaining about the difficulty of games would complain that menu is too hard
I think games should punish you for selecting easier options. Like, you get an achievement for starting the game in a "story" mode that permanent stains your account, and you can never get the "true" ending.
>>335025132
Would you a Jon girl?
>>335011045
If they don't they aren't very satisfying and with that not very good.
>>335011045
>dat chin
>dat bitch crazy eyes
>dat nose piercing that looks like a mole
why would people take selfies knowing they look horrible?
>>335025132
>I bet shitters complaining about the difficulty of games would complain that menu is too hard
They already do
>Dwarf Fortress isn't hard! It just has a bad UI!
>>335012417
does she really think all other women are this pathetic? holy fucking shit
>>335011045
if you select easy no
if you select normal sometimes
if you select hard yeah
Options are a good thing.. at least sometimes.
>>335025424
It's an internet PTSD victim you shitlord
>>335025285
I'd a Jon either way
>>335025427
>>335011302
nerd
>>335012718
And yet you post here
No wonder all video game forums are shit and full of retards
>>335012208
>Casual mode will happen in your lifetime
>Game is hard because I can die / lose meme
There are dozens if not hundreds of games coming out every year. The overwhelming majority of them are specifically designed such that even if you're terrible at them you can experience most if not all of the game's content. There's nothing wrong with a relative handful of those games putting up a "you must be this tall to ride" sign and telling anyone who doesn't want to rise to the challenge to fuck right off, just like how there's nothing wrong with games existing that are of genres you don't like or contain content you don't like.
"I paid the money, I'm entitled to all the content" is a horseshit argument. You paid money for a game, not a collection of cutscenes and rewards. If all you wanted was to see the story while putting in minimal effort you could just watch a fucking Let's Play for free.
>>335011302
Shut up retard.
That's like buying a book and complaining about not knowing how to read.
Some skill should be expected when buying video games.
>>335011158
First post best post.
