Why did 3d platformers fall out of popularity? Most of my favorite games were of that genre. I miss the cartoony style of those games, too.
How do we bring back the 3D platformer, /v/? And what do you think about upcoming titles like Yooka Laylee and A Hat In Time?
>Why did 3d platformers fall out of popularity?
Because people would rather buy homogenized shooters and open world garbage
They died after everyone tried to surpass SM64 and ultimately failed.
Same as the beat 'em up genre, nobody could beat Turtles in Time so nobody tried again for a decade.
>>334717396
I actually felt Banjo-Kazooie did a better job than Mario 64 did, although it was shorter I suppose.
>>334717808
And was a walking simulator where your character can barely even jump.
>>334717971
What the fuck are you talking about, you could even fly in that game
>>334718036
In some select parts, just like in SM64. On the ground Mario has like 8 different jumps and even the worst is more useful than anything B&K has.
I like to think DK64 poisoned the well
I want a new Blinx.
There's no way yooka laylee will be bad. If anything at least the music and probably atmosphere will be there.
I just hope there's some challenge, which I know banjo kazooie was never really hard, but maybe a bonus challenge world or something
>>334717396
But Rayman 2 was basically Mario 64 with far better levels to explore, a gliding function, better music, and better combat. Far better story and characters too. FAR better camera too thanks to the strafing mechanics.
>>334718145
In BK you have 2 different jumps (3 if you count the jump pads), and 2 different ways to run (one being required for steeper slopes), as well as a glide move to slow your fall. Even so, the moveset alone doesn't define the entire games, and the average player isn't likely to use even half Mario's move in SM64 since they're optional (and generally only speedrunners take advantage of them). Anyway, BK had better graphics, music, and level designs that didn't regularly rely on random floating platforms.
>Hat in Time
>upcoming
It's practically vaporware at this point.
>>334718363
Probably the absolute and most defining trait with mario 64 is the amount of movement options mario has and the skill ceiling it offers.
Rayman 2 does a lot of shit great, but all you do is jump and glide and mash the attack button while strafing.
>>334718973
What's with the influx of MUH MARIO 64 MOVESET posts lately?
Hat in time looks garbage and Yooka Laylee ain't coming out this year
>>334718363
You have no idea what you're talking about. SM64 doesn't need extensive camera controls because the camera is perfect.
>>334719098
I've been saying it for years. I guess AGDQ highlighted it for normies.
>>334717196
Not saying this is the genre's fault, but a lot of them used those large 3D maps to justify tedious collect-a-thon elements.
>>334718239
>101%
Fuck DK64 for that.
Platformers are my favourite too
We just have to remember the good times my friends, and occasionally replay the classics
>>334717196
Double jump and hover killed 3D platformers.
>>334719098
>MUH MARIO 64 MOVESET
>lately
Only morons didn't notice. Mario 64 has always been GOAT for that reason.
BK and other platformers were great and even way better in some other aspects but not precisely on that one.
>>334717196
They were shit anyways.
>>334720056
Galaxy 2 is the best 3D platformer ever made. Though I guess the spin is less of an extra jump.
>>334717808
Mario 64 offers a lot more control over your character than Banjo does.
Theres really just no contest. There's a reason people LOVE the 3D mario games, even Sunshine and its mostly because no other 3D platformer lets you move around the way 3D mario games do.
>>334718363
I'm ambivalent about Rayman 2 since it mostly feels like you're on a set path between setpieces and the controls are kind of fiddly in some modes. Gorgeous though.
3D platformers died commercially in the PS2 generation, even if there were some good games around. Not edgy enough.
>>334720261
Sunshine went way overboard with the size of the obstacles though. Every jump requires you to sidehop, walljump and then hover. Takes all day.
>>334717196
Shit why did you remind me of Rayman2 bruv. i wanna play the shit out that now.
Sad fact: they brought it out on iOS, the full PC version not tthe abridged ps1 version
Then an iOS update occured which made the game unplayable. The devs responsible did not ever fix the game nor did they give us a refund.
Same thing with Tony Hawks PS 2.
At least gimmie back my money you cunts I didnt even finish the game
/rant
>>334720472
Eh, I don't know. I liked that desu.
Games that feel like video games in general have fallen out of fashion.
It's annoying that we can't get fantastical worlds much anymore, and everything has to have a layer or realism with "realistic" gameplay.
>>334720436
They were just integrated into other genres. Kingdom hearts, God of War, these all had platforming but were so terrible at it that they gradually disappeared and made people think all 3D platforming was shit.
>>334720632
Do you not own a 3DS or something?
>>334720632
>>334720643
I fucking hate modern video games
MUH REALISM
>>334720783
Yeah, everyone is trying so hard to emulate, look like movies, with serious award bait aesthetics and stories, and literal hollywood actors as characters that look like the actor.
>>334720643
God, Kingdom Hearts. That first game was such a camera angle clusterfuck, but when they took away the platforming aspects they turned every level into a corridor and ruined the fun of gliding.
Then there was that climbing fad after SotC.... What a dreadful medium.
>>334721041
And not an ounce of talent for storytelling or even understanding that games aren't movies and have more options than simply trying to make them into a movie so people will take them seriously.
That's the reason people autism so hard about Dark Souls, because despite what you may think of the series, it does a good job of making the mechanics inform the world and story.
>>334721181
Not only are games not movies, movies is an inferior medium. That's like when they used to make picture books out of movies.
In fact while we're on the topic allow me to give you all a friendly nostalgia-induced brain aneurysm
Pic related: a gem that got currupted and destroyed shortly after this release
(Ctr and crash bash were sick af though)
>>334721318
May his worthless spirit live on in all the Runner games on the iPhone.
>>334721318
I recently re-played Crash 2 and Warped and holy fuck this is Naughty Dog at their best.
>>334721318
Crash 2 is still the tightest fucking platformer ever madei know that pic is 3
both in terms of design and controlsI still mintain that the best controlling protagonist from a 3D platformer is Mario in Sunshine
>>334717396
Except many games surppsed Mario 64.
People just glorify 64 for the same reason they glorify OoT and FF7. Sure they're great games on their own, but now days it is completely nostalgia driving them, they were game changers and revolutionary at the time but they were just bases and games tgat came out after them and used the same type of formula vastly improved on them.
The reason why platformers died is because they weren't considered cool anymore by the younger generation of today. Kids today want to be cool and edgy like adults so all they want are gray and "edgy" games like CoD, they're too embarrassed to play something like Mario out of fear of being made fun of at school and not fitting in.
>>334721597
Name some games that surpass Mario 64
It sure as fuck isn't:
>Crash
>Spryo
>Rayman
>Goemon
>Rocket Robot On Wheels
>Banjo
>Jak
>Ratchet
>Croc
>>334721846
I think Banjo is far more interesting.
I found the level design in 64 very generic.
>>334721919
How is it generic when it was the 1st 3D platformer with that sort of level design?
The control you have over Mario surpasses anything you can do with Banjo. I like Banjo well enough but I think we may like this genre for different reasons, anon. That's okay.
>No mention of Vexx.
I know that it's not a popular game but it's nice to that bad either.
>>334718330
>If anything at least the music and probably atmosphere will be there.
That soundtrack by banjo kazooie guy that they released is fucking awful though. Sounds like he ran out of creativity so he took a bit out of every one of his previous soundtracks and turned it into this diarrhea. Hopefully most of the music is done by the diddy kong racing guy because his soundtrack is a million times better
>>334722035
Generic is the wrong word, boring more like.
It's not all bad, and it's a great game and revolutionized platforming, but I think by being the first, it didn't utilize everything that could be done with a 3D level.
That said, you're right about controls. Mario plays much better, but is to me a less interesting overall package.
>>334721919
Banjo is shit. Little to no platforming and no bosses, the only gameplay is tediously collecting shit like you're playing Mystical Ninja for the cats.
>>334721846
Mystical Ninja
>>334722109
Not that bad*
Damn autocorrect
>>334722198
Banjo is fun and so is Mystical Ninja.
Mario 64 is better than both, Mr. Hipster.
>>334722431
Mystical Ninja has bosses, puzzles and 4 different playable characters. The areas are surprisingly big too, like the Festival Temple. It beats OoT and sure as hell beats SM64 at anything but speedrunning.
>>334721597
>>334721919
Oh fuck off, there's not a single 3D platformer that's come out that's better than SM64. Not even close. It's the quintessential 3D platformer. No "muh nostalgia", I played through this game multiple times and the last was just last year, it has aged like fine wine and is still perfect.
There are a lot of solid 3D platformers, but none of them have nailed it like SM64 did on the first try.
>>334717396
Dragon's Crown was the first fun beat em up since Turtles.
I loved crash 1 and 2. Warped bored me. Maybe I was all crashed out by then. The series has been getting a lot of praise on the internet that it never used to get. I used to get laughed at for saying Crash 1 was on my all time list.
>>334722669
You're an expert on this, I can tell.
I played with a rock many times, even right now. This rock is better than sand.
>>334722669
>muh Nintendo
>muh Mario
I'd much rather play most 3D platformers before SM64.
Mario 64 isn't even the best 3D Mario game
>>334720643
>pressing the A button more than 0.5 times
>>334722694
And last.Second to last
>>334722815
Except it is.
>>334722664
Oh yeah I love Mystical Ninja. Mario 64 is still better though.
>>334722737
You really should give Warped another shot. 2 is GOAT but 3 is practically just as good. It's hard to outright say 2 crushes it when both are just fantastic.
>>334722669
sunshine is better
>>334722669
Galaxy > Sunshine > SM64 > 3D World > Galaxy 2 > 3D Land
>>334723320
>3D World
>Better than Galaxy 2
Well our opinions sure are different.
>>334723684
good lord
>>334723320
I wouldn't put Galaxy before SM64 considering how they removed the open area thing to force the "successive planets = level" template. You can't sequence break nor choose which star you'll get first if not for a secret one hidden in specific levels.
>>334717196
I just want another Mario game like 64/Sunshine. That "hybrid" thing they're doing now isn't the same.
>>334722953
I didn't know about that one. Thanks, anon.
>>334723320
Galaxy 2 > SM64 > 3D World = Galaxy > Sunshine > 3D Land
This looks pretty neat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKSPzv70pVk
Mario 64 > Galaxy 2 > Galaxy > Sunshine > 3D World > 3D Land
>>334723684
>>334723816
I know a guy who claims that microtransactions are the future of gaming because they allow you to support your favourite companies
"Gamers" are batshit insane
>>334724460
what the fuck dude
>>334724460
Sounds reasonable, I'd take microtransactions ahead of buying the same game 6 times a la Monster Hunter.
>>334722669
Just because you have more ways to jump doesn't mean the game is better or even that the controllers are better. Banjo Kazooie has 3-4 jumps, and builds the levels perfectly around what you are given to work with. You have more options in Mario 64, but that doesn't equate to a better game. Levels are far more memorable to me in Banjo Kazooie because they are larger, more monsters, more traps, and overall better environments. Even Rayman 2, which only has two diffferent jumps, focused on building levels with the ability to hover as well as a combat focus (and strafing) to ensure most platforming bits are done during combat, allowing for an experience Mario 64 couldn't provide. Mario 64 was wonderful, and the fast paced acrobatics was nice, but aside from said acrobatics it was outdone by Banjo, Rayman, and even Rocket Robot on Wheels because those three games had more of an identity to them.
I can't help but feel like Mario 64 was rushed to figure out how to get the controls perfect and there just wasn't time to give each world an identity so you have some amazingly atmospheric levels like Jolly Roger Bay and Boo's Haunted Haunt, but then you get stuff like Lethal Lava Land and Whomp's Fortress where the theme is just 'blocks'.
>>334725108
...I like Lethal Lava Land and Whomps Fortress though.
3D platforming is not as precise as 2D platforming.
Also I think consumers weren't satisfied with platforming alone, some games started introducing platforming with other elements, like Tomb Raider. Maybe consumers didn't think a game with platforming alone was enough to keep them busy after the PS1/N64 generation. Just like how point and click adventures became obsolete because action adventure games started to introduce puzzles in them, along with other things.
>>334725108
>Lethal Lava Land and Whomp's Fortress where the theme is just 'blocks'
You mean aside from surfing on the lava, exploring the insides of a volcano and fight bullies? Hell, even Whomp's fortress has one of the game's very very few bosses.
>>334725410
>tfw all the game genres I enjoy are dead
feels bad man
>>334717196
>tfw a secret concerning this game that I cannot reveal, even in here
>>334724185
>>334724057
I'm probably alone in this thought, but I honestly enjoyed 3D Land much more than 3D World. And I could never get into either Galaxy game, but loved Sunshine and 64.
>>334724196
>manchildren thinking they're mature and tough shit gamewise for playing Uncharted
Good Lord. Why do always the fuckers who don't even know how to grab a book feel compelled to preach about "storytelling"?
>>334725543
Don't worry, we already know it was made by filthy frenchmen.
>>334725772
come on m8 if the story ain't filled with gritty edgy nonsense it's not a good story
a Bandicoot stopping his crazed scientist creator from destroying the Earth is too kiddy
>>334717396
Mario 64 is fucking garbage nostalgiafag, Banjo, Rayman, Crash, Spyro, Ratchet, Jak, Conker, Donkey Kong, and Ty have all had better 3D platformers since then.
>>334725959
>he thinks he's right
Can we all at least recognize that this game perfected the 3D platformer?
>>334726138
nah
>>334726138
>3 melee attacks: a single punch, a stomp, and a TOTALLY NOT CRASH BANDICOOT SPIN
>sluggish movement, takes fucking forever to get anywhere by just running and you have very few movement options
>sequels tacked on wannabe GTA gameplay
All three are solid games but they by no means "perfected" anything other than a near seamless transition between "levels" in the game world. I love Jak but seriously anon, get a grip.
>>334726138
Well Naughty Dog already remade Donkey Kong Country as Crash Bandicoot
And they already remade Diddy Kong Racing as Crash Team Racing
And then they went and remade Banjo-Kazooie as Jak and Daxter
Sorry kid, but Banjo-Kazooie was already an inferior game to Mario 64. A remake of an inferior game is still an inferior game.
Mario 64 was already perfection.
>>334726138
Oh come on. The game is good, it's fun, has a nice atmosphere. But is it fuck even close to being the perfect platformer. I suppose you could say it doesn't have many "issues", but that's only because it's so unambitious when it comes to the platforming (Though obviously the open world aspect was special)
>>334726018
>Mario 64 is the first game I ever played so it's the best
Neogaf is that-a way
>>334726687
My first game was actually some random as fuck fish game on Intellivision where you eat fish and get bigger trying to avoid sharks.
Eat shit.
>>334724161
Has potential. Not a fan of the MC design though.
>>334726138
Yep
>>334721846
>hating on Rocket Robot on Wheels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNi3dEnujt8
>>334726687
>muh neogaf boogeyman
>implying
>>334727083
Not hating. It's just not better. Pretty up there though.
Shame Sucker Punch is Sony's Infamous whore now.
Fun Fact:
Every 3D Mario game revives it Everytime somebody calls it dead
Galaxy and 3D World especially
Oh but your talking about open world action adventure Platformers and not pure 3D Platformers
>A hat in time
It's dead Jim
Also we are getting a new 3D Mario this year that will garner interest yet again
>>334727201
Honestly i'm just glad somebody else ended up enjoying it. I still have the big bright red N64 cart somewhere.
>>334726138
yes
>>334727326
What happened to it? Isn't the lead guy of that project also said to having stolen assets and just being a piece of shit, overall?
>>334720643
>made people think 3D Platforming was shit
I loved it when the Galaxy series showed up to revive it
Frankly everybody that tries to go back to make these old Platforming games fail
Nintendo is Literaly the only ones that have been constantly capable of making good 3D Platformers
Yooka Laylee will hopefully help push it's prevalence, especially wth whatever new 3D Mario is revealed this year
>>334724196
And they say /v/ is the echochamber...
>>334724196
I can't even put into words how this makes me feel
>>334721846
>>334722669
Okay.
>Crash
Bonus levels
>Spryo
Multiple different themed hubworlds that offered variety. subquests in levels for added bonuses.
>Rayman
Integrated actual story and plot elements as well as completely different level variants of gameplay styles
>Goemon
Integraded RPG and heavy story elements
>Banjo
Smaller but detailed levels. No need to return to hub after collecting main collectable object
>Jak
Seamless open world
>Ratchet
Has actual story. Actual reason to collect things that aren't part of the story. Weapons.
>Ty
See banjo
>Vexx
See banjo but darker and edgier
>Epic Mickey (as awful as it is)
Complete world and environment manipulation
>Conker
Adult themed. Had actual objectives not about collecting things.
I could go on.
But one thing you can see consistently is that none of these games force you to return to the hubworld after collecting [thing]. You can stay in the level and play to the end. The games are built in a way to let the player stay and have fun instead of being forced out and tediously have to go back in.
So i suggest you keep your obvious favoritism nostalgia boner down and in check.
>>334727348
Yeah I have mine too, but I honestly did not play the game back in the day. I only bought it a few years ago at a Play N Trade because I had NEVER seen or heard about it before and I'm one of those people that see the charm the N64 has.
Played it and loved it, wished I could have played it when it first came out, but at least I found another good game on N64 before it was too late.
>>334727568
I do hate that it cut back on the movement options, but I guess the gravity mechanic wasn't really designed with fancy acrobatics in mind. Some shit like the Slide Kick was just bloat anyway.
>>334727886
All those games don't offer the control over your character that Mario 64 does.
Jak in particular is incredbily limiting.
>>334727886
Why is returning to the Castle such a bad thing? It really isn't, anon. Get over yourself.
>>334717196
Mario 3d land sold 10 million units. Platformers are still popular.
They're incompatible with modern trends and business practices.
How can you enforce control over the game when there's no online carrot-on-a-stick multiplayer - Without multiplayer, how will they sell you DLC and microtransactions?
How can they earn prestige when 3D platformers focused on collecting, problem solving, and exploration? There's no way to forcefeed a pretentious hollywood story in there.
Also, 3D platformers sort of devolved into open world games since collecting, objectives, and exploration thing can be shoved into open world games as well. This is far easier than designing a hub world with different levels and such.
It'd be easier just to make a big open box and shove quest markers in there.
>>334728219
Its not a bad thing, its just tedious as all hell.
Its like have having a commercial break during a really good tv show.
You dont wanna watch 5 minutes of your favorite show only to be forced to watch ads every few minutes. Its the same thing. No one wants to be forced out of the fun level they're playing only just so they can go through a menu and two laoding screens just to get back into the level they were enjoying. What sane person would want that.
>>334728073
64 doesnt offer you that level of control your nostalgia glasses think it does anon.
>>334724196
>literally mature games for mature gamers such as myself: the forum
>tfw nobody played Tonic Trouble
I love that game.
>>334718328
You know we will never get that, anon.
>>334728698
>if I say its nostalgia enough I'll be correct!
Look buddy, you're wrong here. You can like those games more than Mario 64 all you want. No one can force you to have an opinion.
What ISN'T an opinion is that Mario 64 offers more control over Mario than Jak does for Jak, Crash does for Crash, and so on. It has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with the way Nintendo designed the game compared to the way those other developers designed their games. They went for different aspects, clearly.
And by the way, going back to the castle really isn't tedious and your commercial break analogy makes no sense as there are secrets in the castle to discover. Try to make a cohesive argument next time.
>>334717396
Its not that they tried to surpass Mario 64, its that extensive 3D platformers are also very hard to make.
You need a good movement mechanic, and level design is super hard regardless of movement mechanics.
To the point where Hat in Time is a 90% recycle of Super Mario Sunshines movement mechanics, with some reskinning and some different values.
Mario 64 is also super compressed. Those small islands with extensive use of different goals, in a good way. With a good modern tool, creating something of the same size would take 1-3 months. But that do not solve the issue of creative use and good movement mechanics.
>>334728961
yo what?
that game sucked, camera was horrible, the only good thing about it was the first level
>>334729512
The effort that went into this game is amazing, SM64 was THE jump into 3D and I think the devs realized that they were basically deciding the future of the medium with SM64 and later OoT.
>>334728698
>I'm a fucking retard that can't into analogies: the post: the movie: the game
>>334718519
The only useless moves in Mario 64 are the sweep kick and the slide attack.
>>334730397
That's not really what I meant, although it still supports my point.
>>334728698
>64 doesnt offer you that level of control your nostalgia glasses think it does anon.
The only flaw in 64 is that you can't turn the camera around. You are limited to having to circle it around to the other side.
Beyond that its fucking amazing, because manual camera control is garbage in 9/10 cases
>>334729458
>And by the way, going back to the castle really isn't tedious and your commercial break analogy makes no sense as there are secrets in the castle to discover. Try to make a cohesive argument next time.
Anon you know exactly what my argument against returning to the castle (or any hub world) is.
But for fun lets say you dont. Disgarding exploring the hubworld for secrets and junk, if you're having fun in a level there is no reason for you to be forced out of it just so you can return.
>enter level
>explore and have fun
>get object
>forced out of level
>have to go back in
There's no point. Why force the player out of a level they were in when they could just stay there and do all of the objectives while there. Saying "well it has to set and load up the next objective and level layout" can't really be used as an argument because many other games do it. The only reason the player should be unwillingly ejected from a level is when they've completed all the objectives and have no need to be there anymore or cannot progress because they need to unlock something from a different level.
Nothing else. How many times in a mario game have you gotten a star in a level, got pushed out, then immediately jumped right back into the same level? Probably more times than you can count. Having a hub world that you can run around and explore isn't a bad thing, but forcing a player back to it creates tedium if all they want to do is play the level they were in.
>>334731238
I agree with you. I always liked how Banjo didn't force you out of a level so you could clear it in one run.
It's necessary in some M64 levels though because the props are positioned differently for some stars.
Rayman 2 has the most underrated soundtrack of any platform game in my opinion.
>>334724185
Nope
Galaxy 2> 3D World>Galaxy>Sunshine > 64>3D Land
>>334723868
It's good to see people who actually believe that an open world with no actual Platforming is better actual obstacles for Platforming
>>334731238
How does your little rant hold ANY water when each star objective is a different instanced version of the level?
Koopa the quick only appears when you select his star.
Seriously, you really arent thinking this out as well as you think you are.
>>334723684
>Simple Platforming and their ancient mechanics
>Mario Galaxy 1,2 and 3D World has been widely acclaimed for being fucking fantastic because they made a good fucking Platforming game
>BUT MUH STORY TELLING EXPERIENCE
I like Last of Us, I like story telling in general
But to pretend that other game styles like Platforming can't be just as great, deserves to be smacked in the face
>>334732621
You could potentially get the red coin star, 100 coin star, chain chomp star and king bob-omb stars at the same time. There wouldn't be any harm in allowing players to get all the stars that they possibly could before booting them out.
what I miss the most about the goofy old platformers is all the color and especially the nice OSTs. I feel like games are just so dark and bleak and always sound like some generic movie, with cookie cutter orchestral soundtracks.
>>334733119
Agreed, but why is getting booted out such a huge deal when load times are nonexistant and this way you get to select your objective if it features an instanced version of the level.
Frankly you're bitching about the most minute of issues like its the king of flaws. No one said Mario 64 was perfect. People are just lauding that the control over Mario was great, really.
>>334733814
It's perfect. Name one thing you'd change and I will tell you why it's a bad idea.
>>334717396
SM64 was amazing but there were plenty of 3d platformers better than it.
Hell, sunshine was better than 64.
>>334734060
I wouldn't change a thing, to be honest.
I don't think perfection is something that can really be achieved, though.
>>334734078
>but there were plenty of 3d platformers better than it.
Remember to name them. At the least 5-10, because that is the minimum number to even be "plenty".
Otherwise its just a shit straw argument you think is real.
>>334733814
I'm not the original guy. I was just agreeing with him because he's right that it could have been handled better. Those bootings out of the painting add up to a fair amount of lost time.
It's obviously not a deal breaker but it'd be a way to make the game better if some of those could be skipped.
>>334734143
Depends on whichever definition is convenient to whoever's trying to prove their point. I can't imagine a more fitting description than the one you just gave, honestly.
![7463_front[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yPF4EDg.jpg "7463_front[1].jpg")
Make way, you fucks, king of the rental section coming through.
BEST n64 platformer. Debate me.
>>334734196
>add up to a fair amount of lost time
Really, bro? It adds up to what, a minute, a couple seconds of which are the game saving?
>>334717196
>tfw never did beat Rayman 2 or play Rayman 3
I guess I should find a copy of each and play through them.
I miss Rayman and other 3D platformers.
>>334734306
That ending though
>there should be an epic cinematic here but we ran out of money! Thanks.
I'd pay good money for a spiritual sequel for this.
>>334734189
Because making a blanket statement saying "SM64 is better than every platformer" totally isn't a shit straw argument that you think is real right?
Do you even know what a strawman argument means? You're using in the wrong context.
>>334734626
Same man. It was so creative and the puzzles felt great most of the time.
I've been emulating and the analog stick has been a bit rough, Steam Controller hates Project64. I can't remember from the original, could you slow move forward? With my controller on PC it's full speed or nothing and some of those skinny walkways are hell.
Assassin's Creed / Arkham / Shadow of Mordor type games are the natural evolution of 3d platformers. Pure collectathons fell out of favor, but even then aspects of them are present in today 3d platformers.
What really fell out of popularity across all genre's is the company mascot for children. And that's mostly just because the industry grew up and target audiences shifted to young adults.
>>334734641
The problem IS that Super Mario 64 is in many ways the superior platformer.
To the point where I can't think of a game with a better movement system that can be used outside of expert play, with some extreme gains in expert play too.
Also the raw level design is amazing.
And a whopping 120 stars. Which is a huge number for a early N64 game.
>>334734947
so games with no platforming at all?
>>334734330
It takes a good 5-10 seconds at least to come out, jump back in, reselect your level. Might be more for stuff like wet dry world or tick tock clock. Multiply 120 by 10 and that's 1200 seconds which is 20 minutes. Even if you take into account that it's less than that due to 100 coin stars you're still looking at a good 10+ minutes of what is essentially menus.
>>334717196
3D Platformers are still around.
The retard crowd just likes worthless repeat shooters, copy pasted mobas, and open world garbage that has no point.
>>334734796
Controls in the original were pretty wonky, too. I still keep my original cartidge around somewhere, I'll give it a try.
>>334734306
I had this game. I couldn't ever beat the boxing stage at the end.
>>334734947
Those games don't have ANY form of platforming. I would have given you inFAMOUS had you mentioned it.
If anything, both inFAMOUS & Dying Light seems like what you would get if a Triple A company made a platformer.
You won't get a hub world based game with different levels, but you'll get an open world parkour game.
>>334734948
>To the point where I can't think of a game with a better movement system that can be used outside of expert play, with some extreme gains in expert play too
Calm down. There are FPSes with better movement systems than Mario 64. Not to mention that Sunshine Improved on 64s movement.
>Also the raw level design is amazing
You can say that about a lot of 3d platformers
>And a whopping 120 stars
If you weren't being disingenuous you would say that there was 15 levels which was less than n64 games like Banjo kazooie.
>>334735673
>Not to mention that Sunshine Improved on 64s movement.
not him but no
Sunshine removed part of the moveset, and replaced it with hover, that's not improving it, that's just giving it a crutch while making Mario less mobile than before
There has to be a bigger goal than collection items. That's boring in 2016. That's why other platformers started using tps mechanics, driving mechanics, beat em up mechanics.
>>334735820
What did they remove from Sunshine that was in 64?
>>334736154
long jump
maybe there's something else, I don't remember
>>334734947
>Assassin's Creed / Arkham / Shadow of Mordor type games are the natural evolution of 3d platformers.
That's bullshit. Those are open-world games. For as much as I don't care for any of those save Arkham, they're basically evolutions of the open-world sandbox game, being open-world but actually expanding the gameplay from typical GTA bullshit.
>>334736258
Yeah, you're right. Don't know how I forgot about that.
>>334735673
>There are FPSes with better movement systems than Mario 64.
Mirrors Edge has no real freedom of movement. And its very lazy with vertical movement.
Beyond that, I can't think of FPS games with actual movement mechanics that isn't "you jump and got good control over your flight path".
Even for something like Quake, the core mechancis to even get controls involves external tools and abusing bugs to gain momentum.
>Not to mention that Sunshine Improved on 64s movement.
There is a improvement, but at the cost of control and speed. Which cripples the system.
Even for a expert runner it turns into spinning everywhere and holding A button as long as possible.
The general control is too slow.
>You can say that about a lot of 3d platformers
Only if they where good. Even something like Galaxy has a lot of awful level design, that is saved by its somewhat okay movement mechanics and speed.
>If you weren't being disingenuous you would say that there was 15 levels which was less than n64 games like Banjo kazooie.
And?
>>334717196
>tfw Sonic Generations the last good 3D platformer
>>334723684
>TLOU
>Ai mechanics
lel
>>334736749
3D sections sucked cock, scrap that 3D Sonic sucks cock, always did.
>>334736524
FPSes like Unreal Tournament, Warsow, Reflex all have complex movement systems
>Only if they where good. Even something like Galaxy has a lot of awful level design.
And Galaxy doesn't represent all 3d platformers, there you go with your blanket statements again.
>And?
And, that means that there are platformers with more content than 64 despite having similar limitations
That's kinda the reason I stuck with playstation. They used to have the best fucking platforrmers. Now they just focus on shitty weeb games that are literally autistic high school simulators.
>>334737549
>the "sonic was never good meme"
You wanna know how I know you're shitposting?
>>334737628
>Muh strafe jumping
Nice meme. You don't even have a good mechanic there.
>>334717196
Because you can combine platforming with other cool shit (shooting, driving, etc.) instead of running around nondescript worlds collecting Jumba Fruits and Waka Poopers.
>>334738087
>strafe jumping
Thats Half-life numbnuts. Nobody uses strafejumping in the UT series.
Just admit you don't know anything about FPSes, it's fine.
>>334724196
>Fuck no. Are you fucking kidding me?
Carl spotted.
>>334738496
The principle is the same: So long you keep on jumping you gain more momentum.
But to gain vertical momentum of any level you need to boost with explosives or guns with knockback.
And thats extremely barebone and very shit.
The only thing of worth you gain in FPS games for movement, is that you have very good control over direction because there is no external camera.
64 had
>poor camera
>easy, unsatisfying level objectives
>flat-out uninteresting levels like dry-wet
It's a good game, but certainly not one of the best. They nailed the movement options, sure, but as a whole it doesn't even make my top 5 3D platformers.
>>334737739
>meme
Sorry that you grew up playing that garbage, but it's automated trash and has always been that way. There's barely any platforming in 3D Sonics.
Is there a decent chart for 3D Platformers?
People go to whatever is the popular trend.
Platformers in the 90s are what shooters today are.
Infamous and Mirror's Edge are as close as you'll get for AAA.
If Yooka-Laylee does well then we might see a mini revival but I think it will be niche from now on.
>>334717396
is turtles in time really considered the best beat em up of all time? i played it yesterday with a friend and found it good and polished but not necessarily great, also it's only 10 levels
>>334724196
it saddens me deeply knowing the fact the world is filled with people like this.
and im not talking strictly about video games.
>>334723961
Yeah this. The Levels in World are awesome, but it breaks my immersion to pop out everytime.
>>334738917
Holy shit can you be any more incorrect?
First off strafe-jumping isin't the only form of movement. There dodging, walldodging and wall jumping, dodgejumping, ramp jumping, and a whole slew of other shit for any given game.
But that's probably not enough for you right? Because your arguement is that horizontal movement doesn't count for some reason, or that it isn't as important as vertical movement.
And when there is an example of vertical movement (rocketjumping) you straight up dismiss it. Barebones? How can it be any more barebones than anything in SM64? You have to time jumps and rockets carefully, and you have to monitor your resources to judge whether a rocket jump is worth it or not.
And if that wasn't enough, rocketjumping isn't the only form of verticle movement in FPSes, you have jump-pads and moving platforms that give you much more height if you jump off them correctly. not to mention UT's translocator.
You've proven, yet again, that you dont have the the slightest idea of what you're arguing about. If you don't even want to google search basic shit then just pack it up.
The 2D Rayman games are way better than the 3D ones.
>>334724196
What if they made a gritty, story driven platformer?
Would they play it then, or is it literally that kids can't be bothered to play the games at all?
>>334740253
True
>>334724196
This is the reason i'm still here.
>>334740238
Eat shit. Raw horizontal movement and fine grained control is far more important than just going fast. Especially when FPS do not feature Horizontal movements in most cases.
Something like Jedi Knight is so rare its exotic.
>>334740301
They did that, it's called Jak II and it's shit.
>>334717196
3D platformers were the "it" genre of their time, due to popular titles like SM64. Arena shooters and Adventure games were the "it", money making genres before it and "on rails" FPS like Halo and Call of Duty after it. Currently we're coming out of an action adventure boom and heading into a Moba/ "shared world" FPS boom.
>>334740546
>Raw horizontal movement and fine grained control is far more important than just going fast
Are you implying that any of the movements that I listed were just for going fast? Because you would be completely wrong, again. Jesus, half of the ones I listed had the word dodge in them. Jesus, I get that you've never played an FPS that was made before 2007, but don't you think dodging would involve more controlling where your going so you can get out of the way?
>Especially when FPS do not feature Horizontal movements in most cases
Instead of all those types of horizontal movements that you choose to ignore.
SM64 isn't some godlike game that nobody has been able to touch for the past 20 years. It has been improved upon and surpassed in almost every single way by other games that came out after it.
>>334717396
64 has been surpassed many times though, get over it
