The great debate.
DK64
>>334615891
I can't choose. Both were really fun.
>>334615958
We wouldn't have B&K (atleast not the way we know it) without M64.
But overall Kazooie is the better game.
>>334615891
BK > Mario for characters
BK = Mario for music
Mario > BK for platforming mechanics
BK final boss is much more challenging
>>334615891
BK is western-made trash, so SM64 is better, obviously.
>>334615891
Both are fantastic games but I feel like BK is a little bit more challenging.
BK's camera is absolute garbage, the FPS DIES in some areas(especially when you have to turn the key under the shark), and the egg shooting is spotty at best
that said I like 64 more because you dont have to 100% each level in one go
>>334616930
you don't have to reach 100% in BK either
>>334615891
Super Mario 64 was a tech demo that wasn't very true to previous Mario titles.
Banjo-Kazooie took basically every good idea from SM64 and improved upon it considerably.
>>334616930
Except that M64's camera is even worse. Banjo's camera at least has a competent follow option.
>>334615891
mario 64 > BK = Jak and Daxter > BT >>>>>>> DK64
>>334616930
You neither have to, "100% each level in one go" or 100% the game to beat it. You can come back and forth between levels just like in Super Mario 64. B-K just has more, "star doors" (I remember SM64 having...three or four?)
>>334615891
Mario 64 by a landslide. Still love BK though.
>>334615891
Super Mario 64, fuck Banjo
>>334617237
its really not. Ive played mario 64 at least a dozen times and nothing was as bad as the camera in the christmas level. The walls always fucked up your perspective and going right behind banjo's back made it hard to see anything in front of him
I've never had a problem with the camera in either game desu fram
>>334615891
Can I choose half a game?
Mario 64 is a great platformer
BK is an ok platformer that only improves on M64's most boring aspects.
>>334617513
A game is a game. You can't say it's only a half.
>>334615891
Everyone who likes Banjo-Kazooie has nostalgia glasses because they don't remember this shit.
BEAR AND BIRD VS PLUMBER
>>334617814
>he didnt know the correct path to take to grab 2-3 joker cards so he could skip the last couple spaces avoiding insta death
>>334617295
64 has 4, Banjo has 8 with 4 optional doors for upgrades. But the bigger difference is Banjo's doors are driven by notes and not jiggys with 64's being its Stars and not coins.
There's 9 levels in BK with 100 notes, and you need 810 notes to open all doors.
64 has 15 courses with 90 stars (plus 15 coin stars) in them.
Banjo's Jiggy pieces are used on puzzles to open levels and 64's coins are used as a score that when you collect a 100 in a level, you just get a star.
>>334617814
I'll always have affection for Banjo Kazooie, but there are other reasons besides this stupid section that BK isn't the perfect 3D platformer we all remember.
>>334616684
This.
B&K is more about the world
>come here
>look around
>alright you solved the puzzle the way we wanted you to
Its prettier and the writing is top notch
As a little kid, this is how I played sm64. just look around and solve a puzzle the obvious way, never utilizing the more technical movement
>>334618321
well to be fair, it's not like the mario 64 ever forced you to learn the more technical movement. you use the wall jump for maybe 2-3 stars and the vault jump just to start a level. the DS remake even removed changed one of the Boo level's walljump stars into an area where mario could use his floating power up to get it instead
SM64 is the better platformer, BK is the better adventure.
Mischief Makers since 2D platformers are far better than 3D platformers.
>>334618936
You're delusional.
Mario always win
64 has better movement mechanics, BK has better everything else including level design and progression. So, BK.
>>334619059
>muh genre that hasn't changed at all in 20 years
This isn't even a debate because they are completely different kind of games. You might as well ask which game is better between Metal Slug and Call of Duty.
Having said that, I prefer Banjo because its levels are done better.
Seriously though, what the fuck were some of 64's levels even? It's amazing to see the level design gap between 64 and Tooie that came as the console went on.
Mario 64 > BanjoApe Escape is still the king of that generation
>>334619408
WDW is my favourite in the game
>>334615891
Neither. Banjo-Tooie is better than both of them.
>>334618936
It's more of a corridor platformer. Apples and oranges.
Mario if you want a quick playthrough
Banjo if you got time
>>334619208
Well yeah, 2D is always going to be 2D. It won't suddenly change to 3D.
>>334620053
I once compared Crash to Temple Run because I'm a faggot, but I'm glad to see someone else calling it out as more obviously linear than other platformers. You just run down a hallway, making jumps as you go. There's no sense of exploration, which to me is the hallmark of a 3D platformer. If you're not gonna use the 3D space, why even bother?
Even SM3DW felt more "open" than Crash.
iirc Mario 64 had a better framerate
>>334617585
Mario is the better platformer mechanically by miles
banjo has some better music and looks nicer, and has a bit more personality
I like mario better just because the raw gameplay holds up a lot stronger. banjo's novelties can wear off if you've seen them before, but it's always a blast to play mario 64 again.
>>334620271
I think 3D World did afford you more freedom of movement than Crash. There are some levels where you can just play around with shit like snowballs and baseball (albeit on a time limit). Crash was pretty narrow, claustrophobic even.
Kazooie>mario64, nothing else was as good as these two.
I preffer the worlds, art, and music of kazooie but both are truly exceptional.
Mario 64 a much better level design by miles. Every star has a purpose behind it that's more than just a collect a thon. Banjo Kazooie is all about searching every inch to find a puzzle piece which is autistic as fuck.
>>334620790
It also just has more movement options - wall-jump, long jump, side somersault, the cat suit giving you wall climb, etc.
Even if the level doesn't demand all of them, more options just feels better for the player. Crash had the spin-dash thing and jump, and was that it?
>>334620405
Oh my fuck, literally arguing about holes. At least the guy admits he's bored. Unlike some other people on here who nitpick about shit and won't just say "yes, I'm just doing this to pass the time".
>>334615891
>>334616684
It's very easy, actually: Mario for the fun gameplay, BK for the atmosphere, charm and music.
Seriously, I like M64's music, but BK has to be one of the GOAT soundtracks.
Mario 64 always gets worse in hindsight. It was cool as shit when it came out, and the gameplay is still tight to this day. But it's just the farthest thing from Mario. The best parts of it were Shifting Sand Land and Big Boo's Haunt. None of the levels even resembled the colourful and lively Super Mario World levels. There's so many mechanical textures and robotic features. The outdoor levels are lifeless and meaningless. There was way too many levels that were just geometric pieces slapped together, like Wet Dry World, Rainbow Ride and Lethal Lava Land. And it's all because it was a launch title for the N64. It might as well just be a packaged tech demo.
And then Sunshine came. Sunshine made all these cool geometric levels as bonuses. Something you really need with a movement system as good as 64's is the ability to challenge it. The game never challenges it. 64 had it safe because "1st of it's kind." Sunshine is the closest thing to a "complete Mario 64" if it wasn't for FLUDD.
And it fucking blows, too. Literally no Mario since touches the fluidity of 64, and the DS remake even tries to make it less fluid with it's holding of a run button, power flowers and changing characters.
At least Banjo got a true blue sequel that wasn't tainted by a massive gimmick.Until cars, anyways.
>>334615891
Is there a mod to replace Banjo and Kazooie with Mario?
>>334620987
Yeah I forgot about that, 3D World has wall jump as well. Catsuit was kind of a neat way to allow you to break certain levels. Made speedrunning more viable. Also, the risk and reward of taking shortcuts with the dive.
I think Crash had some sort of pouncing attack, where he basically does a bellflop on something. Like, I think you can break boxes and shit you pounce on.
>>334617814
>fun
>>334621262
A lot of those mario 64 problems can be attributed to the tiny ass filesize limit of early n64 carts and the complete lack of any good audio compression.
to put it in perspective, banjo-kazooie is 16mb and mario 64 is only 6MB.
>>334621309
oh yeah, you're right. It's been years since I played Crash, rented it once as a kid and didn't think it was anything special compared to Mario 64, Spyro, Banjo, etc. Didn't understand the huge following it got.
>>334617814
People seriously hate Grunty's Furnace Fun?
>>334617814
>beat in 1 try the first 3 times I did it
get fucked
>>334621721
Yeah I vaguely remember playing it. I had Wrath of Cortex as well when I got my PS2. Didn't think it was anything special. I mean, I finished it.
I think the appeal back in the day was "Look, we've got our own Sonic/Mario too!".
>>334615891
I could never get into Banjo. It felt so damn clunky.
Kirkhope did BK's music, right?
I never liked how SM64 kicked you out of the level after every star so BK.
>>334619208
There's no need to change perfection.
>>334617814
>>334621787
>>334621930
How fucking amazing is it that a game had small parts where it utterly deviated from its previous design? The boardgame, the first person shooter part in the mines. I mean, those parts weren't really fun because of the controls, but it's great that developers and publishers actually tried to innovate at some point.
I've truly come to hate BK. It's just like an indie game, it rips off a truly innovative game (SM64) while failing to copy what made it fun to play (movement options), extending the worst parts about it to unbearable levels (collect-a-thon), failing to address any of the primary issues (lack of bosses) while pointlessly adding in lots of comedy for 6-year olds.
DK64 suffers from much of the same, but at least the bosses were good and the "humor" not nearly as intrusive.
>>334623862
Banjo Tooie had a fucking quiz in its final boss battle. They aren't executed all that well but I like that they were willing to experiment and do cool things like that.
BK shits on m64
>>334619507
This guy knows what's up
how do you control the wing cap in mario 64? Every time I play that game I feel bad not knowing how to control it and that I'm playing the game wrong.
>>334623931
>fluidity of movement
This right fucking here.
Very few other 3d platformers manage to have the fluidity and speed of control Mario 64 does while still allowing the player to have complete control. The reason I don't enjoy something like 3D World as much is because of how stiff it is. Just imagine playing 3D World with 64s level of control.
>>334623931
>pointlessly adding in lots of comedy for 6-year olds.
I grew up with that game and still enjoy the humor. I'm not really laughing out loud, but it's still funny and whimsical. I like that they took the time to make every of Gruntilda's lines rhyme. It's stuff like that that shows their love for the game they did create.
>>334624328
>fluidity and speed of control Mario 64
i must of played a different game. I found Sunshines controls to be way more responsive and fluid.
25 years and Mario 64 is still the best 3D platformer of all time.
>>334624241
You hold down to pull up and hold up to pull down. The thing you gotta remember is, Mario has momentum, the sharper you bank left or right, or dive, the faster he goes.
>>334624486
I feel like they control mostly the same honestly. I do agree that Sunshine feels better though because of Mari's new abilities with Fludd. I just wish Sunshine had better physics and level design to complement that.
>>334624674
i dont think so. I think Sunshines controls are much snappier and respond more satisfyingly. Also his extended moveset allows you to do some great stuff.
Whether its level design is better, or if its a better game overall is up for debate. Sunshine is great but held back by some specific stuff while i think 64 is more consistent overall.
>>334623931
>failing to address the primary issues
the primary issue is fucking level design, which BK fucking wrote the book on. then there's also progression. BK requires you to do EVERYTHING it teaches you.
The levels of a 3D platformer are just as important as movement. Although 64 >BK in movement, BK's movement is still good and works just as it needs too and is polished completely. But when it comes to levels, 64 looks almost a generation behind in level design.
And the collect-a-thon part is infinitely better than 64 because the levels are worth exploring because things are going on, and you don't feel the pressure of having to start over and not get kicked off your groove just for discovering something.
> while pointlessly adding in lots of comedy for 6-year olds.
take a fucking hike, having characters with personality beats the ambience of a walking simulator any day
>>334624613
>You hold down to pull up and hold up to pull down.
this is what i don't understand. Like how the fuck am i supposed to remember that?
>>334625004
The Wing cap is more like gliding than flying. The more momentum you build descending, the more you can rise upwards.
>>334625004
Just gotta keep doing it. It's like anything really. Eventually, it becomes second nature and you don't even think about it.
If you think about it too much you'll freeze and just sit there going "how do I do it?!".
>>334625351
fuck that. its just like sex
>>334620831
is that a dick
Mario has better mechanics but the world has much less charm. Banjo has music, atmosphere and humor going for it.
Banjo Kazooie > Mario 64 > Banjo Tooie
>>334625501
Yeah, pretty much.
