![Thief_box_art[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sJSFkuY.jpg "Thief_box_art[1].jpg")
Fuck you, I liked it more than the original
>>333752510
Confirmed for never playing any of the original games.
>>333752510
How awful
>>333752510
I completely respect your opinion.
>>333752510
Fuck you, I liked it more than the original
>>333752510
That's because you're 12
>>333752510
>>333752510
Me too, the original had shit level design. Way too many large, meaningless areas.
>B-b-but muh big levels!!
When the map is big because there's a ton of same looking rooms that serve no good purpose it's detracting the game, not improving it.
>>333754452
New Thief is trash, but the OG Thief has a lot empty rooms with no purpose and some levels are total shit. Thief 2 fixes most of this.
>>333752510
>>333754786
What was even wrong with the new Thief? Everyone says it's trash but no one says why.
>>333752510
Here's your reply
>>333754998
They remove the messy game play for a good one.
>>333754998
It's not trash, it just has very little to do with the original trilogy in terms of gameplay, atmosphere and game mechanics.
Therefore, people who bought because of the title bitched about it being different.
On its own the game is alright, I guess? A typical modern consolised kinda stealthy, kinda action game which holds your hand constantly.
>>333754998
>smaller levels
>levels designed around objective markers leading you around
>simplified sight/sound system
>pointless story with boring characters
>certain abilities that used to be used anywhere are now contextual (rope arrow)
Lockpicking and actually moving around were neat, though.
>>333754998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx2TTzadTaA&nohtml5=False
>>333755364
>moving around were neat, though
Wrong, everything is so ridiculously restricted in this game.
You can only move to certain areas, there's no jump action, fucking rope arrows only work in extremely specific locations, windows take forever to open and you have to bust the lock everytime on the same window you've opened.
>>333755364
>smaller levels
That's a good thing if comparing to Dark Project levels.
>levels designed around objective markers leading you around
Wasn't one of the more praised features the option to disable just about everything like that?
>simplified sight/sound system
The originals had incredibly simple system so that's hardly the case.
>pointless story with boring characters
Whatever.
>certain abilities that used to be used anywhere are now contextual (rope arrow)
Okay that sucks depending on how much it actually affects planning.
If that's the bad stuff, I might have to give it another try.
>>333754786
>some levels are total shit
Name 'em.
Even the worst of them have redeeming qualities.
![Fallout_4_cover_art[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xvtQp2l.jpg "Fallout_4_cover_art[1].jpg")
Fuck you, I liked it more than the original
>>333755868
It's worth noting that it's also easy as fuck.
Like, guards are borderline blind and deaf, and the dumbass 'swoop' lets you move absurdly fast silently.
>>333756283
Even Ride to Hell Retribution has redeeming qualities if you want to look for them. Doesn't make it good.
>>333756404
Has there ever been a stealth game where the guards aren't blind and deaf? If they were actually perceptive the games wouldn't be fun.
>>333752510
Please kill yourself at the soonest possible opportunity.
>>333756623
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory.
Which was loads of fun by the way.
>>333752510
fuck you, not even the guys working on this game had any faith in Thi4f
>>333755717
I was more referring to the animations if anything. They still did the dumb third person takedowns sometimes, but it was neat viewing everything Garrett did.
Movement is considerably less free-form than the originals which really hurt the experience too.
>>333756283
Thieve's Guild and Undercover.
>>333756623
I said name a level that is total shit.
Also, Thief 1&2 guards could actually see you very easily if you were in light, and noise was really fucking important to avoid. Marble floors would give you away in an instant, as would jumping around on hard surfaces.
>>333756892
Thieve's Guild was fine if you could find your way around, and the manors were great. Use your map.
>>333753969
I liked it too, but not nearly as much as the original, some scenarios are really oper8 tier
>>333754998
Check this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqwDGXxLhU
>>333754998
No sound propagation whatsoever, no muffling through walls, no nothing.
>>333756976
>I said name a level that is total shit.
And I showed how your point is bad.
>Thief 1&2 guards could actually see you very easily if you were in light
Seeing into a lit area is easy? Gasp.
>>333757472
Burden of evidence is on you, bruh.
Where's the shitty level?
>This guy killed a guy
>who'd he kill?
>dude he totally did it
>you'll never face Haunts for the first time again
[CHAIN RATTLING INTENSIFIES]
>>333753969
Inexcusable really, mark and execute is the worst thing to happen to the series outside of Ironside leaving.
>>333754452
>>333754786
either samefag or two retards xD
>Make new game.
>It's enjoyable. Maybe a bit shallow but it works as a fun distraction.
>Happen to have the rights to the name of a series that plays nothing like your game.
>Use it.
Fuck modern revisions of classics.Call me when the 2010+ industry can pull off a revitalization like MGS1 did for MG. So many classic franchises' corpses being paraded around with parasites inside them. It disgusts me.
>>333752510
Now here we have a rare example of a wrong opinion.
>>333752510
I would literally bet my life that OP is a graphics whore and that's the only fucking reason he likes it more than Thief Gold.
>>333758279
Either that or he was too retarded to rebind the controls to his liking.
>>333757589
The evidence you're asking for doesn't prove anything, and you're ignoring >>333756892
But whatever, remembering how early on the level with tunnels and vomiting dinosaurs is stops me from even going back to it.
>>333758386
>>333758279
>>333757814
>>333757728
At least people hating on Hitman Absolution or SC Conviction can back their opinion up with something other than "lel retard".
Thief 1 and 2 are great. There's no better feeling than getting the simple objective of "steal the thing and maybe this other thing", and then waltzing out with all of some rich fuck's fortune with no one realizing you were there until it's too late.
>>333752510
now you're really just being contrarian
>>333759252
>he didn't like Down in the Bonehoard
You might just have shit taste.
>>333759648
>"Name one shit level, they all have redeeming qualities"
>This is shit
>"Lol you just have shit taste"
Not sure why I expected you to actually point out some of the supposed redeeming qualities.
>>333759648
In his defense, navigating all the traps and crypts were super cool. But the tunnels and Dino things were awful.
>>333754998
It's not trash but it wasn't great. It tried to a do a sort of open world thing and that didn't really work for me, especially with all the level transitions. I would have preferred that work be put into making the mission levels better.
One complaint I had was that you could block yourself out from revisiting prior points in a mission without any warning or explanation. In the whorehouse mission for example I opened a door thinking I could still 100% the previous rooms, since I was trying to get a layout of the area. Nope, one way door.
I really dislike how they threw out the whole previous story and just made the real Garrett some thief from 1000 years ago. The story was very lackluster, very inexplicable. Compare this to the trilogy of the previous games - each one was telling the story of how one of the major factions got too powerful (Pagans with the Trickster in 1, Hammerites with the Mechanist heretics in 2, Keepers with Gamall in 3) and had to be stopped. They were great for showing how Garrett was really one helping keep the world balanced. Thief 4 was just a story clusterfuck which makes no sense whatsoever in the canon where you have people with the same names and roles a thousand years later. It should have been about Garrett's apprentice he got at the end of 3.
A lot of the levels felt too small or too linear.
They didn't really improve the AI in any meaningful way.
Free roaming was something these developers apparently couldn't manage (even though previous games could) so no rope arrows and the like.
>>333759953
Yeah, the burricks are pretty awful.
You can blackjack them though, so it makes it a bit more tolerable.
>>333752510
I'm sorry for your shit taste. I really hope this is some kind of trolling because there's literally no comparison to what the original games have done and pioneered with its amazing audio design alone compared to the atrocity that was the reboot.
>>333759252
1. Thief 4 is completely linear with tiny maps and loading screens around every corner. Missions also have points of no return rather than having access to the entire map.
2. Anything not tied to the story with a cutscene after you steal it is garbage like fucking forks or something
3. I don't remember you being able to knock people out without needing to do a takedown. Most weapons and items are context sensitive and are made to fit into the linear path of the game so you just feel like you're triggering what the devs put there rather than actually doing anything yourself. Jumping too is context sensitive.
4. No environmental interaction that I remember other than things like levers that open more linear paths. Thief 1 and 2 were immersive sims and while they were obviously limited by the technology at the time they are much better at doing it than the new game.
5. Level up system just to fit in with modern games. I don't remember it being much use when I played the game so it seems like it was just shoved in there just to be there. Other shitty modern design choices include the takedowns I mentioned above that also turn the game third person (same with those third person climbing parts), slow motion shit, and I think there was some wallhack mechanic too but I probably turned that off.
6. Menu and hud design are generic modern futuristic looking garbage with no thought put into them.
7. Sound design is the worst I've ever seen in a game, and it's even worse with how much attention was put into the sound design in the original games.
Might be more but that's from the top of my head the issues I remember.
You don't have to be contrarian OP, not even any of the people who worked on this game liked it, thats why it bounced back and forth between several teams for years and years.
>yfw
>>333759648
I wish more games used maps like Thief did.
>mfw all the people who worked on this game got fired
>>333760840
Bad ending aside, at least I could actually play it unlike ME1
>>333760085
>>333760537
Have a (You) for using some actual arguments unlike most people. Most of these seem like valid complaints, some bigger than others. Linearity and points of no return are definitely a big flaw but most of the stuff sounds tolerable even if I'm not a fan of it.
>>333761313
The things wrong with the game have already been repeated so many times that there's really no point in repeating them any more so that's why you don't get many people bothering. The only thing the new Thief does better than the old ones is graphics, at least as far as I can tell, having played about 140 hours between 1 and 2 and 10 hours of 4. If you're OP I would like to know what you like so much about the new game compared to 1 and 2.
>>333761313
It is tolerable, mostly. Not being able to jump sucks major dick but overall it's not that horrible on its own.
Its biggest flaw is that it had the Thief name to live up to and failed so miserably at that, it basically killed the series.
Then again, Squeenix are making a movie with it to apparently bring more attention to the series so there's that. Maybe they'll actually pull a Deus Ex and give Thief to a competent developer.
I played it. still have it installed and to be honest, I can barley be arsed to finish it.
It's just so damn boring and I can see what the AAA added to it.
I haven't played the originals but I played Deadly Shadows and I just loved that game, the town thieving felt soo much better than this and in the end it just makes me want to replay that one.
>>333761631
Human Revolution suffered from the AAA disease too and I'm really not sure why people think it's a good game. As far as I can tell it just wasn't as bad as people were expecting but that doesn't make it good.
>>333761676
You should play 1 and 2. They're a lot better than 3 and 3 was thought of in the same way as 4 is now before 4 came out. Make sure to use TFix for Thief 1 and TafferPatcher for 2.
>>333761828
Your nostalgia goggles are pretty much fused to your face, I won't even bother. Thief 3 was a good game, so was Human Revolution. While Thief 1&2 and the original Deus Ex are very good games, they are also seriously flawed. The sequels have merits, however you may spin it.
>>333761614
>things wrong with the game have already been repeated so many times that there's really no point in repeating them any more
I've never seen them them as threads talking about it tend to quickly devolve into stuff like >>333757814
>>333757728
>If you're OP I would like to know what you like so much about the new game compared to 1 and 2.
I'm not OP and I only played a bit of the new one but am considering trying again. I don't remember thinking much of it, positive or negative, but disliked the level design in 1 quite a lot.
>>333761631
>Its biggest flaw is that it had the Thief name
So same as Absolution.
>>333762203
>Your nostalgia goggles are pretty much fused to your face
I only initially played the Thief games in like 2012.
I played 3 before 1 and 2 and didn't manage to get more than a couple missions in because the movement felt shitty and every mission being cut in half with loading was really irritating.
And I never liked the original Deus Ex either but Human Revolution has pretty much everything that people complain about in Thief 4 but for some reason that game is great. It might be because Deus Ex was always the "jack of all trades master of none" game like that so this treatment didn't really affect it as much but it still isn't very good.
>>333752510
Obligatory watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDBkl5gjbD8
>>333752510
Boogie is that you
>>333754195
tumblr pls go
>>333762203
saying that HR is a bad sequel to Deus Ex is pretty much confirming for having nostalgia goggles on you.
HR was modernized because it has to sell copies and guess what, publishers don't give a shit other than that. But the devs behind it were passionate as fuck about the project and you can see that.
I hope they kept the same mentality with Mankind Divided and I am glad that they were given much more time to work on the project, reminder that it could have easily fallen into the CoD/AssCreed yearly releases category, but it didn't.
Now if you want a bad sequel to Deus Ex, look no further than Invisible War.
>>333763939
>tumblr
>female character is white, and more importantly hot
???
>>333762236
>I've never seen them them as threads talking about it tend to quickly devolve into stuff like
It's been years now, most people have settled their opinions by now. For a while I would type up a big multi post wall of text explaining why I don't like it but I'll be damned if I'm doing that any more.
>>333763994
>saying that HR is a bad sequel to Deus Ex is pretty much confirming for having nostalgia goggles on you.
I assume you meant to quote >>333762512
I didn't say HR was a bad sequel to Deus Ex, I said it wasn't a good game. And like I said also I didn't like the original game either. My point was that HR had the same shit that Thief 4 had that people shit on it for and yet for some reason people like it but not Thief 4.
And nostalgia goggles only apply when there's been a significant amount of time between playing the game and the statements made. I played Deus Ex a bit before Thief 1 and 2, which I said I played in 2012 initially. And I have no nostalgia for Deus Ex anyway since I didn't like it.
>>333756293
Well yeah, Fallout 1 sucked.
>>333764316
Yeah I can understand that, but it should still be possible to summarize it in a sentence or two.
>>333755868
>The originals had incredibly simple system so that's hardly the case.
Now I KNOW you're baiting.
The original Thief had an incredibly sophisticated sound system to simulate sound and the way it carries.
not even looking at the rest of your post
>>333757731
>Call me when the 2010+ industry can pull off a revitalization like MGS1 did for MG
You mean turning them into a movie?
>>333765227
>The original Thief had an incredibly sophisticated sound system to simulate sound and the way it carries.
That's...no. Just no. You could pretty much bring down the apocalypse behind a guard as long as you were on a carpet, he'd be none the wiser.
Each type of surface just had a range at which it alerted other characters. Metal had the biggest one and that's why it seems they can hear it anywhere they are.
The games are good but come on, the tech was so rudimentary it's crazy how easy it is to exploit everything.
>>333765649
>You could pretty much bring down the apocalypse behind a guard as long as you were on a carpet, he'd be none the wiser.
Like what, jumping?
>>333759252
I might back my opinion up if yours was better than "lel game that gets lauded for insane level design has shit level design"
>>333752510
Fuck you for having a shitty opinion I guess?
What other kind of response were you looking for?
>>333764991
You'd think so, but there's so much to bitch about.
Personally, my main issue was with the way it restricted movement. It's irritating to play a game that's constantly stopping you in your tracks even for small things like opening doors or picking up loot.
The graphics are good and the fog effects look great but I found the art direction unappealing. It's too murky and monochrome, and the hud can get cluttered despite the minimal design of all the icons.
There's too things out of many.
>>333765227
>The original Thief had an incredibly sophisticated sound system
I've heard that too I but think it was probably just a boast for the press.
>>333765845
Jumping, carrying stuff and even swinging the sword around sometimes.
Not to mention stone being seriously fucking unrealistic, Garrett was clearly wearing muffled shoes yet every stone you'd step on would sound like you had high heels. Metal too, to a degree.
I'm sorry, I love the games too but the tech was nothing to brag about. They just made the best with the little they had and that is an achievement in itself, seeing as Thief was supposed to be a medieval action game initially.
>>333765649
>In order for sound to work in the game as designed, we needed to implement a sound system significantly more sophisticated than many other games. When constructing a Thief mission, designers built a secondary "room database" that reflected the connectivity of spaces at a higher level than raw geometry. Although this was also used for script triggers and AI optimizations, the primary role of the room database was to provide a representation of the world simple enough to allow realistic real-time propagation of sounds through the spaces. Without this, it is unlikely the sound design could have succeeded, as it allowed the player and the AIs to perceive sounds more as they are in real life and better grasp the location of their opponents in the mission spaces.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/131762/postmortem_thief_the_dark_project.php?page=2
There's other stuff there too. And even if it still is simple for what some games today use, Thiaf's sound system and design is beyond awful and many times worse than the one used in the original 2 games.
>>333765649
>Each type of surface just had a range at which it alerted other characters
Not true senpai. There are invisible prisms surrounding the geometry of a level, which are used to calculate how sound should travel through the environment. One side effect of this that the devs found at some point was that you could hear things more clearly on the other side of doors by leaning into them, which was then implemented as an intended feature in Thief 2.
>>333754998
Having to watch a short cutscene for every piece of loot you picked up. Every. Single. One.
>>333766350
Huh that's one feature I kinda liked in the new one. It made stealing shit feel like actual stealing and it'd change the approach to an area, having to take into account the time it takes to steal each piece with respect to guard patterns.
>>333766230
Regardless of whether it's simple in any technical sense, the important thing is that they made good use of it in gameplay. I probably couldn't explain why but for what ever reason I find it a lot easier or at least more helpful to see with my ears, so to speak, and track moving enemies several rooms over without actually seeing them.
>>333766314
cool
Ultimately it's just yet another "reboot" that shits on the original. And some people defend the flaws because of its reboot status, when it's just a sleazy marketing gimmick. If you're going to give a game the label of an established franchise, OF COURSE it's going to be directly compared to that franchise. Publishers/devs just want to be lazy and not innovate, so they use the term "reboot" as if it's some magic word that can shield them from criticism.
>>333766192
>>333766087
http://www.shacknews.com/article/79782/thief-dev-answers-community-questions
Thief2014 dev "The sound design for the original Thief games was incredibly well done. "
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2888/building_an_ai_sensory_system_.php?print=1
The part sound plays in Thief's detection AI
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3355/postmortem_thief_the_dark_project.php?print=1
especially point 2:Sound as a game design focus for explaining why sound is important and what limits the devs faced
http://sneakybastards.net/stealthreview/thief-design-analysis-part-1/
In depth look at why thief2014's sound system is not as good (15 years later mind you)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzKthDK2TrQ
not so in-depth look
>>333766813
Mind you, I don't have the hateboner for thief2014 most anons here seem to have.
I think it's an incredibly average game build on a stellar IP.
I played it, enjoyed much of it, and never really thought about it again.
I do really like the art direction though.
>>333766192
>Garrett was clearly wearing muffled shoes yet every stone you'd step on would sound like you had high heels
I don't understand this complaint. I don't know how intentional it was but I think it's important to have very clear feedback on what sound you're making at any particular time, so the sound is perfectly clear to the played. Same reason there's a light gem, to give constant feedback on visibility.
>>333767185
It's an "Argument from Realism". Should be an official vidya game fallacy.
>>333767185
>>333767317
>I think it's important to have very clear feedback on what sound you're making at any particular time
There's a difference between having clear feedback as the player and walking on stone sounding like you have a jackhammer.
If you're going for a realistic sound propagation system because most of your game relies on good sound design, then make the god damn sounds as they should be.
The sound should be perfectly clear to the player, not the rest of the characters though. Did you ever walk on a marble floor? Try to make it sounds like in Thief and you'll see it's not so easy without, well, hard heels.
>>333767687
They made a trade off between realism and gameplay to benefit the player.
How hard is this to understand?
>>333756823
Pandora Tomorrow was no slouch either
>>333752510
>>333768225
Then don't say "as it allowed the player and the AIs to perceive sounds more as they are in real life and better grasp the location of their opponents in the mission spaces" when it's clearly not the fucking case.
>>333754998
booming soundtrack half the time for no reason. Dumb QTE to open windows to mask loading screens. Dumb AI.
Also the character wasn't at all true to the original games, it's like the devs only played the original one once and wanted to rip off shit like Batman.
>>333764045
>female character is white, and more importantly hot
>New Lara Croft
>with small titties
>hot
nice joke
old Lara is too hot for the SJW's that's why they made her ugly in the new one
>>333768498
>QTE
A button prompt is not a QTE. Get it right. You sound like a total moron.
>>333768385
But it's not "as they are in real life"
The sound is designed in a way that makes sense within the confines of the game.
>>333768606
They just made her a realistic british woman
>>333768865
Then why doesn't she have a horse face?
>>333768606
>implying Lara's small titties and tight ass aren't amazing
>>333768934
Because they still need to make money
>>333768385
dude, you're mad because you said thief 1's sound system was simple and nothing special, when in fact its more complex than the new one and almost every modern game released.
Relax.
You got BTFO, it happens to everyone.
>>333768865
>realistic
are you fucking kdding me with this bullshit?
we're talking about a top-tier badass heroine who's supposed to be amazing in many ways here...not a fucking ugly bitch you see in the streets
the looks should reflect the character's coolness/epicness
oh wait...nevermind...they actually made her a whining "woe is me" bitch in the new one as well so I guess the new look suits just fine
disgusting either way
>>333768796
dude you have to mash for a while depending on your fucking hard drive
>>333769385
Like I said, they made her a realistic british woman=3
>>333769401
No fail state and you choose the timing. Not a QTE. Fuck off.
Fuck you I didn't like it.Except for the soundtrack
>>333770148
fuck you, it's an annoying and bad way to hide a loading screen that shouldn't be there.
I don't care that there is no fucking fail state, thats not the point.
>>333768606
But new Lara is cuter than old Lara.
Thi4f didn't even have any cars.
