I know I will sound like some memeing faggot but am I the only one here who thinks the left one actually looks more natural andcinematic?
don't have a ps4 nor a good pc, purely talking about the 30fps vs 60fps topic
if I would turn my head around in a similar pace while looking at my surroundings things would look similarly blurry. 60 fps webms always looked kinda synthetic for me, like when in a 2d animation you notice an unfitting cgi one.
You can like whatever you want.
You become an idiot when you say 30 fps is objectively better than 60 fps.
>>333738462
Just because naturally if you spin the whole world will be blurry, doesn't mean it should constantly be translated as realistically as possible.
It's way less straining on the eye to have frames moving at double the speed. Sorry.
If anything it plays so fluidly that the synthetic nature fades away.
You're used to a shit quality of life and don't know what's good but you'll come up with anything to justify it.
>>333738462
It's okay to be retarded, anon. Don't worry about it.
>>333738730
The only way 30 would be better than 60 is if i-frames are tied to framerate. Then you would want 30, but 60 looks nicer
Seriously, thinking that lower framerate is superior is stupid, but there are types of games where I'd rather have nicer graphics than 60fps and where 30fps are absolutely okay.
>>333738462
I agree that it looks more cinmatic.
I disagree that it looks more natural.
>>333738462
It looks better to you because you're used to it. Play on 60fps long enough and you get over that.
But honestly, since we CAN get used to anything, I find the entire debate pretty trivial. There are very few games that are actually ruined by having 30fps, unless you are a hyperactive speedrunning / platinum trophy seeking tryhard. As long as it's a steady framerate and you are a normal person the difference is negligible.
>>333738462
>I know I will sound like some memeing faggot
Well as long as you admit to being retarded you can do whatever you want.
>>333738462
I'm more concerned with the resolution. ps4 clearly is lagging behind on that regard.
>synthetic
I get that feeling too, looking at the right and it just looks feels like some student Blender animation.
>>333738462
No, you're retarded, it's not just about looks but about how it feels, 60fps is more responsive and your brain understands what is going on more, and in fast paced games being locked at 30fps ruins the experience. Dark Souls is in the middle, it's not too slow but not too fast, it works at 30fps but still benefits from 60fps although mostly just in looks. A game like CoD or Revengeance would feel like shit at 30fps because they relay on having a faster reaction time at a quicker and more constant pace.
But like I said, Dark Souls is okay at 30fps but preferable at 60fps of course.
>>333738462
It doesn't matter, 60fps you only notice when watching someone else play or when you're watching a video of gameplay. when you're playing yourself that 60 fps will literally become relevant the second you actually focus on playing.
>>333738462
Ehh, that's just you being a memeing faggot.
I can't stand artificial blur and my entire childhood consisted of playing racing games on a potato at like 20fps.
I infinitely prefer 60.
The main issue here is that the PS4 is running at what looks like 240p.
>>333741489
What? PS4 actually runs it at 1920x1080 just at 30fps, PS4 version looks sharp but has motion blur when moving the camera.
>>333741207
>>333740632
I've played ds1 and ds2 on 30 pfs,
I don't think that you can make use of that little difference in gameplay in such game. In an mlg level csgo in the extra precise and quick aiming you can make use of it, but in atmospheric games that supposed to feel cinematic I think 30 fps is more of a sweet spot than 60
at least judging purely by this webm I would rather play ds3 too in 30 fps than switching it to 60
>>333738462
it's just a different time fo the day.
the one on the right makes me dizzy, the left not so much.
Can someone explain why they only do 30 or 60? Why don't they do say 40 or 50? I personally hate 60 fps because it feels unnatural but I also hate 30 fps. I love it if I can get my game to run around 45-50 fps
>>333742056
>30fps
>MUH CINEMATIC
STOP. This is horseshit and everyone knows it, developers are lying when they say they're aiming for 30fps because of MUH CINEMATIC FEEL, 60fps is objectively better than 30fps, and any decision to stick to 30fps is because of performance reasons. That being said some games are more tolerable at 30fps than others, Dark Souls and Witcher 3 to name a few, but 60fps by virtue of the fact that the frame rate is doubled and the responsiveness is increased is objectively better than 30fps.
>>333742056
what a faggot holy shit
>>333739758
yea and left looks better
>>333742502
Install afterburner and set the framecap at whatever pleases your autism
>>333742178
Kek
Left looks like a slideshow.
Why would anyone prefer it?
>>333742889
Sonyggers are used to the 30 fps dipping to 20s cinematic experience so they claim the technically superior framerate is worse, fox and the grapes.
>>333738462
No I agree with you. The 30 FPS has kind of a gritty, yet more natural look to it.
60 FPS is 2 fast. It looks really weird in a way.
I played DS1 in 30 fps and then DS2 in 60. It felt weird in 60.
>>333738462
My eyes hurt just looking at that. Is that even a perfect 30?
Left seems much better, right is way too fast
I tought the fps complain was just autism and memes, but now I understand, it just doesn't feel right on PC
>>333742056
But you can feel the difference, the slight difference in responsiveness is enough to care and settling for 30fps because a dev told you it was better because they can't do better isn't okay. Being totally ridiculous and whining that some games aren't is also ridiculous.
>>333743385
the bait is strong with this one
Or you're retarded.
>motorcycles are too fast, it's just dangerous, I'm way more comfy in my comfort zone
>>333743385
You do realize that they're both moving at the exact same speed, it's just the one on the left is dropping half of the frames the game engine would normally produce, right? You're getting less information for the same amount of time.
>>333738462
>"if you pretend to be an idiot you will invite real idiots that think they're in good company"
Just stop. There is nothing good about 30fps anymore. The same shit happened when cinema went from 10-15fps to 30fps but people adjusted and it became the norm so why fight 60 so much? it too will be the standard and all your bitching will be forgotten.
Yes, goy. Embrace the 30 fps meme so we can continue selling you hardware from the bargain bin then charge you every month to use our software.
All memes aside, I actually want to get this on PS4 because the playerbase, PC is more likely to have hackers / assholes using cheat engine and I want to have all the Souls games on consoles, right now I only have Demons Souls on ps3 but I plan on getting DaS, DaSII, Bloodborn and DaSIII when I get a PS4.
Do you think they'll be more people playing DaSIII on PS4?
>>333744024
The playerbase on both sides will be large, the only one I worry for is xbone retards.
Also cheaters are a minority of any community.
>>333742528
I know a lot of developers are just trying to damage control their low performance but the "30 fps is more cinematic" in itself is not a meme
movies really use 30fps instead of 60 because 60 feels a lot more synthetic,
for a game 30 fps is already perfectly responsive for anything that doesn't requires extremely quick and precise aiming
at least that's how I feel, I've never felt that playing ds1 in 60 fps instead of 30 would be more immersing or that I would play it better.
>>333744024
>PC is more likely to have hackers / assholes using cheat engine
You realise that it's just as rampant on consoles as it is on PC?
>>333744639
movies are not games you mong, bad comparison.
>>333744337
Yeah, Xbone seems fucked, literally the choice for assholes who only play Halo and retards who bought a brick for a F2P fighting game. Digitalfoundrys comparison between DaSII on PS4 and Xbone is hilarious, Xbone is like a budget PC from 2010.
>>333743048
>30fps stuttering like shit
>more natural look
dang, the bait is evolving
>>333744654
No it's not by virtue of the fact that hacking on consoles is much harder and all the people that know how to hack and plan to already have the game on PC.
>>333738730
>objective
Technical is the suitable word. When objective gets used it institutionally reminds me of elitists who are just making subjective opinions seem fact.
>>333745057
>my source? why my ass of course
GG anon.
>>333739347
>speedrunning
the best speedgame is a 30fps game.
>>333738462
i cant tell if you guys are just meming or what.
there is literally no difference between these two videos.
>>333738462
So I JUST beat this game. I love DS1&2 and I honestly felt like game was not that good. Every area looked pretty much the same and I cheesed everything with the R2 Hunter's Axe charge. I never used a different weapon at all.
Mergo's Wet Nurse is a retarded name for the second to last boss and that whole nightmare area was retarded. This whole game is stupid honestly, the lore is total fucking retarded compared to dark souls. The only reason this game gets any praise at all is because console fanboys won't shut the fuck up about it. I'd rate it a 75/100 for being a fairly solid Souls knockoff. However, I will never play this game again.
>>333744639
For movies it was for "performance" reasons as well, movies were shot at 24fps because it was way more expensive to buy the extra film needed for 40-60fps. Nowadays most shit is digital but we still shoot most movies at 24fps because of a century of people only being used to 24fps and complaining about 60fps movies, they chose 24fps back in the day because it was the lowest frame rate they could get away with without the film looking like a slideshow.
If we went back in time and made all film 60fps for the last 100 years and film makers started introducing 120fps films you all would be complaining about how 60fps is more CINEMATIC.
I can't see it. Are phone screens 30 MHz or am I blind?
>>333745475
>I cheesed everything
>wahhh why isn't this fun
?
>>333738462
I agree. I always found 60 fps looking weird. It's just too smooth.
>>333745876
I agree. I always found 1080p looking weird. It's just too detailed.
>>333745803
Yeah, an R2 charge on an Axe should not be a viable option for the entire game so yes the game is shit.
>>333745321
le half jumping man simulator is not a speedrun
Right looks best. Left hurts the eye.
>>333745518
Just to give a bit of history behind it. there was also the factor of films before then varying in framerate. Some had even lower framerate, but the old projectors were hand cranked so the operator just spun it to make it look natural. This is why most of the old timey films look like they play back in sanic speed when you put it in a modern projector.
With the new automatic projectors, they needed an industry standard and settled on an arbitrary 24 FPS. This has nothing to do with "how fast our eyes can see," that myth came about by some soccer mom or some shit in the 70s.The only reason your hand looks blurry when you wave it like a retarded John Cena fan in front of your face is because you're trying to confuse it with what it should be focusing on.
>>333738462
>I know I will sound like some memeing faggot but am I the only one here who thinks the left one actually looks more natural and cinematic?
It's a video game not a 24fps movie. This sentiment is making me angry.
left one looks more cinematic.
Right one like a soap opera
>>333745321
and the game would be a better game if it was designed and played at 60fps
>>333747263
But wouldn't the right be perfect for a game based off a soap opera?
You guys never fucking stop, do you. You just can't fucking resist.
>>333743048
The only reason it looks "natural" is because of the motion blurring they have to use to combat sending people into seizures or fits of motion sickness.
>>333748184
60fps gives me motion sickness desu senpai
>>333747084
>>333745518
you seriously can't believe that different fps can emphasises the momentum differently?
in animes for example the fps constatnly changes to make the best use of this and even in one scene different parts can have different fps
>>333738462
I definitely do not see the world around me ratcheting when I turn my head.
24 fps was the minimum needed to sync sound with film.
There's where it came from, now shut the fuck up about lower frame rates looking more natural.Anyone that keeps harping it fell for all the marketing hype excuse of why companies don't give you a better product.
>>333746158
>>333745475
The enchanted falchion in DeS, the lightning spear/claymore in DaS and lots of shit in DaS2 would like to talk to you about cheesing and personal responsibility.
You decided to take the super easy/bland route and not upgrade anything else.
Almost everything else you said is subjective.
>>333738730
>You become an idiot when you say 30 fps is objectively better than 60 fps.
That may be true but you are the idiot if you think OP was saying it objectively. He even mentioned it is his opinion and didn't present it as facts.
>>333738462
>if I would turn my head around in a similar pace while looking at my surroundings things would look similarly blurry.
You might want to get your eyes check, anon. If you turned your head at that pace it would be super smooth unless you move your eyes at the same time.
If moving your head at that speed would be "blurry", then looking at the 60 fps clip would also be blurry. Your vision does not change just because you're looking at a screen.
>>333738462
if you focus on a cylindrical plane at a certain distance and have your eyes constatnly shifting to a new point, then yes, you will see a stuttering.
But if you focus on something close to your vision (say the frames of your classes), and turn around everything in the background with be smoother than 60hz,because there is no such thing as hz.
Cinematic feel has more to do with how motion blur is applied than framerate.
>>333748283
> That little smiley face
Warmed my heart.
>>333748919
Keyword being "if", I hope you're not making assumptions on that poster.
>>333748932
but it does
when you constantly have to change focus point things become blurry
that's why the 60 fps's "not blurry smoothness" feels synthetic
>>333742502
double buffer vsync will automatically drop your framerate to half if you can't run at greater than 60 all the time.
Triple buffer fixes this but introduces input lag.
if you disabled vsync and locked shit to a framerate in between 45-50, i'm pretty sure it would be heard to predict where the horizontal tearing would be.
Also locking to 30 when you can easily go over it allows for framepacing to be consistent and input latency to be constant.
60 fps looks "unnatural" because you're a shitter and games don't use accurate motion blur, if you were to make a motion blur shader that produced the same amount of motion blur films have at the common focal length used for 24 fps, at 60 fps, it'd pretty much look just as cinematic after you adjusted and stopped being a little bitch.
Alien Isolation had some god-tier motion blur.
>>333748258
Try watching a movie where they do a quick camera rotation or pan over a scene with a lot of detail, you will notice stuttering out the fucking ass.
>>333745518
This person knows what they're talking about. In the movie industry you have people that make the same arguments with film over digital for mostly historic reasons (they're used to it), the only difference is that early digital video did have some problems that they don't now (resolution and encoding techniques of the time combined with physical media they recorded to).
Here's some shit to look at
http://www.yedlin.net/DisplayPrepDemo/DisplayPrepDemo.html
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2014338/
Most people hate change even if it's for the better and I hate those people because they hold us all back. It is not hard to adapt and see the light, it's just easier to look at something new and dismiss it because it's unfamiliar. Upsetting.
>>333750309
>>333748283
The thing you're talking about in animation is not an explicit or actual change in framerate, you're either talking about time dilation in where time appears to slow down or speed up which is actually increasing or reducing the amount of frames for a context but not actually adjusting the framerate in the final product, the other thing you could mean is something like your gif where each frame gets more detail (work time) when something interesting happens, this can give the illusion of time dilation just because you're perceiving (and actually seeing) more detail per frame.
The former they may actually adjust the framerate but again in the final product the framerate will not change dynamically the same way it can/does in games. I don't mean to be argumentative or anything although I am obviously being pedantic, I feel like it's important that we be clear on the subject.
>>333748283
That's specifically for limited animation, which requires timing of keyframes to do it right, vs what disney did which was have really good animation and throw fuckloads of frames at it as well.
Game animations allready do this, weapon animations are animated in key poses and software interpolates between them, like how the nips hire koreans to draw in between frames. Its not so much the low framerate as it is the timing of the individual keys combined with squash+stretch.
Dark Souls animations don't look any less impactfull at high framerates than low framrates, because my Dark Knight Greatsword still takes the same amount of time to slam the ground.
You can get bad slidy animation when you straight up can't put enough keyframes for the engine to interpolate properly. Look at New Vegas animations for weapons, modders have to work around keyframe limitations that can cause the slide of a shotgun to just kinda move independently of your character's hand, or have off timings that they need to hide through clever uses of momentum.
In 2D limited animation like pc related, so much less of the process is procedural that framerate becomes tied with everything else, that adding too many inbetweens would add detail that your brain would add automatically.
is the pre-load up yet?
>>333750612
Interpolated footage shouldn't be compared as it's a bad example. You can see how blurry the result is and that can't really be avoided. It's only good to compare (higher fps) -> (lower fps), not to interpolate the other way since you'll get a degradation where the former won't degrade (blurr) the image quality.
Nothing against interpolation for viewing but for comparison it's not the best example piece.
>>333751449
maybe if movie companies would release their 48fps footage
>>333750612
Problem with SVP is that it interpolates frames without taking into account the motionblur/shutterspeed the film was made at.
I like the smoothmotion effect which is usually used to get rid of 3:2 pulldown (playing 24 fps on a 60 hz monitor without judder second or so) but applied to everything.
I've got a 144hz monitor and with mpv when I keep interpolation/smoothmotion on, even though 144/24 comes out to an even number, the blending between the frames gives me smooth motion without the soap opera effect. Maybe a little blurry, but its not distracting like SVP where everything feels like its moving at a different framerate.
>>333751107
I think you don't understand what frame per second means
if the animation has low fps and there isn't anything else that has higher fps than that then the whole scene has that low fps, and this changes in animes constantly
with a good anime it's way more depthful than simply the difference between 30 and 60 fps, but even between those there is a difference between the feels how it emphesises the happenings
30 fps isn't just "poor man's 60 fps", it really makes things feel differently and often better
>>333751568
If only. It does suck that the only examples we tend to have of native 24fps< footage is usually by amateur photographers but even their stuff can look good. Some animators release their stuff in 60fps as well but again mostly if not all amateurs.
It's a shame consumers aren't very tech savvy and the hardware isn't set up for this by default but, imagine if they released home versions in high framerate and then you could optionally step them down via software (have the TV or video player do it). That would be nice since everyone would get what they want with no problems.
>>333751821
I wonder if anyone will ever figure out a way to automatically determine the best filter/algorithm to use for interpolating a given video instead of relying on the user to pick one themselves. The method used to generate the frames is a big deal with regards to quality.
>>333748879
Same weapon, same tactic. The entire game.
>that doesn't work in any soulsborne game except the almighty BB
>>333738462
See the thing is, there's nothing wrong with 30fps. But when you put it side by side with 60fps and say LOOK HOW MUCHBETTER IT IS! you look like a fucking idiot.
There's nothing wrong with a decent hamburger, but of course it's going to look shit if you compare it to a perfectly cooked steak.
>>333752336
I'm sorry, I was trying to figure out which you were talking about. In the end the product (video) has a static framerate, I'm guessing you're talking about framerates of scenes in production which can be varied but after/during capturing (if stills) or rendering (if digital) the resulting video plays at a set rate.
Your gif is what I was talking about in the previous post where subsections contain different amount of work.
>>333752336
>>333752780
sorry for not being clear*
I'm not feeling to well so my English may be effected.
You might argue 30 looks cinematic or other bullshit.
But PLAYING, control fluidity and response time in 60fps over 30fps is infinitely better, there's no way around this.
Framelocked 30fps will always be the "good enough" solution for weaker systems. Some games are unplayable without a steady 60fps, such as shooters like call of duty and counter-strike.
>>333752594
I think a great hamburger would still look pretty good next to a great steak. Not really a good comparison.
A better example would be a McDonald's hamburger vs something that I'd grill outside myself.
>>333744639
>movies really use 30fps instead of 60 because 60 feels a lot more synthetic
The first sign of your stupidity is that you think movies run at 30fps, when movies are shot and filmed at 24fps you fag. And the reason why movies were shot at 24fps was because film reels got fucking incredibly long and expensive if you shot at higher frame rates. Now with digital that is no longer an issue, but people are just used to 24 frames per second. The "synthetic" argument doesn't even make fucking sense because that isn't how the human mind fucking works. We don't necessarily see things as a continuous image but we don't see things in discreet frames either.
>>333745059
But 60 fps is objectively better that 30 fps. What argument could be made for it being subjective?
>>333752594
But burgers are better than steak
>>333745475
>moon presence of first playthrough
Why do people follow guides on first playthroughs? fucking retarded. Opinion discarded.
>>333751821
>mpv
Oh shit son, never heard of that, I've been using MPC and SVP for forever, I'll try this out though, thanks.
>>333745518
This
