genuine curiosity
why can't big name companies like blizzard or bethes stop themselves from writing such shitty story?
don't they have executive producers who read over stuff?
or do they not have balls to call shitty writings shitty in front of their writers because 'feelings?'
They know people will buy the game anyway, and likely just fuck around with sidequests and explore, so they don't care enough to put effort into the story.
>>333687978
as long as they get their talking points included, most westernshit just wants to focus on gameplay
>>333687978
>why can't big name companies like blizzard or bethes stop themselves from writing such shitty story?
Because most people don't care so it's not worth it. Also, wider accessibility.
>>333688132
Yeah, no. The gameplay is just as bad.
>>333688132
>implying easternfags meticulously weave storylines
>>333688132
name one game from above companies that had satisfying gameplay to compensate for shitty writing and the answer is none
Both Blizz and Beth hang on to absolute shitty writers because they are entrenched, part of the "old guard" of the company at this point.
Metzen used to be halfway decent until he went complete fucking retard due to too much cocaine. His art from the early Warcraft days and the early storylines were passable instead of CORRUPTION shit everywhere we have now. I mean for fucks sake even the bad guys are getting CORRUPTED at this point because he ran out of good guys to corrupt.
Emil Pagliarulo, though, I struggle to find an example of good writing from him. He won a fucking writing award for FO3 which boggles my goddamn mind. FO3, FO4, and Skyrim all have fucking terrible writing because of this man. One huge example is the goddamn retarded thieves guild quest line in Skyrim. Jesus fucking christ. And the Vault 87/Little Lamplight bullshit in FO3.
>>333688576
>thieves guild quest
couldn't finish that because too much cringe
>>333688236
>>333688253
>>333688385
and yet CoD and sports games, with every yearly iteration prints plenty of money
>>333688776
>talking about completeness of story/gameplay
>talks about sales
well you may as well use clush of klans and kandy krush xaga honey
>>333688776
The Michael Bay Transformers movies made a ton of money, too. Just because something is profitable doesn't mean it's good, or even not terrible.
I think there are pretty good writers out there, but it's just a matter of people not having the balls to build intricate, controversial stories because we are at the heights of political correctness. Women must be at the top of everything, there must be at least 1 non straight character, no one can criticize governments, every character must be as shallow as they get otherwise they could be "misunderstood" by the audience, etc.
>>333689443
And then on the other side, you get people who say "If you want a story, read a book."
>>333687978
Its hard to write a good story.
Even if they hire a professional they would have to trim so much stuff since some stuff just doesnt work well in games
>>333689443
blizzard became so beta fag that they mostly focus on gender ratio in characters and having no cigars(tm)
look how they turned queen of bitch into born-again-savior because female villain is no-no in current year
>>333689795
odd thing is that at one point, they did have decent stories and execution of the story, despite lacking better visuals or game engines
but nowadays they have every resource they need yet fails at so elemental thing like world building or story weaving
>>333689443
i dont think its that complicated, even
i think most people just dont give a fuck about that stuff, you do what makes the most money. end of story.
>>333687978
Because Carmack was ultimately right.
Even the most revered story driven games are at best equivalent to a shitty fairy tale story.
Big companies cost big bucks to operate and so they must appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Just like the most successful Disney movie is a shitty, run of the mill princess story, so do most games just copy whatever's popular at the time and warp it into a form that fits the games.
Starcraft 2's story is shitty but it focuses on what's IN right now (redemption stories, love stories, sprinkles of anime influence,...).
Just like Starcraft's story took what was popular at that time (horror movies, Alien, Starship Troopers,...) and based its everything around cliches from those works of art.
>>333690454
so you think the basic cultural comprehension level fell so hard since le 1990s?
well, edgy buddy, my mates who love some Christopher Nolan and Interstellar might disagree :)
Focus testing and design committees remove any semblance of original thought.
>>333690454
Sounds like Carmack hasn't heard of any genuinely good vidya stories like Legacy of Kain.
>>333690674
>so you think the basic cultural comprehension level fell so hard since le 1990s?
I never said that, I just said that games ultimately just parrot around what's popular at the time and their story quality only really depends on just how much you like or dislike said influences.
Mass Effect copies Star Trek, so every sci-fi fan creamed his pants.
Starcraft 2 copies mecha animes, so it makes sense for mecha genre disliking majority on /v/ to not like that game's story.
It is everything just a copy that's basically another step on the infamous book to movie process, where most of the stuff gets mangled and anyone who ever read the original averts their eyes in disgust.
Games just go one step further down this way, hence why movie tie ins get such a horrendous rep outside about 4 or 5 exceptions.
>>333690454
>Even the most revered story driven games are at best equivalent to a shitty fairy tale story.
Even if you agree with that statement, which I don't, that doesn't mean games are an inherently bad medium for storytelling. At most, all it means is that there hasn't been an exceptional story in gaming so far.
>>333689332
Ha, yes it does. Money is the only objective measurment possible here.
>>333691485
Objectivity sucks fucking dick, then.
>>333691169
It's a dissonance in mediums.
Story is always about telling a story, that's where the name most likely comes from.
Games are about living through a story. Maybe that's why something like Bastion works so well.
It simply acts as if the story was being told by someone and you just fill in the tiny details. Most of the time, you are really just listening to a real story, the gameplay has really nothing to do with it besides suplementing what's usually handled in a few lines explaining the scene or the looks of characters.
Most games aren't like that. You're not in any story, you're just a walking power fantasy some people ocassionally address with a few words so as to keep your tiny suspension of disbelief afloat.
>>333691485
>money is objective
>people spending money is subjective
nicely playing yourself faggit
>>333691689
I disagree. I actually think games are an excellent medium for telling stories, maybe even superior to books or movies, simply because they add an interactive element that no other medium has. RPGs in particular allow the player to actually affect the story.
>>333691689
MGS2 is a masterpiece of storytelling in gaming, easily one of the best. Couldn't be done better in any other medium.
>>333691919
>interactive element
>press f to show respect
>>333691919
>RPGs in particular allow the player to actually affect the story.
Don't make me laugh. RPGs are just a J.J.Abrams movie ducked behind a moniker that actually has a real meaning in pen adn paper games.
Why are there so many stories about the adventures people've experienced in all kinds fo RPGs on /tg/ but there's absolutely none in /v/ besides maybe an occasional fun bug that, in the eyes of the developers, is just a flaw of their game?
How boring must the "adventuring" be if the only thing worth noting is how the developers fucked up?
In my opinion, games are a terrible, terrible medium for actual stories and should, instead, play to their strengths and come up with new ways of creating exciting adventures you will end up telling stories about.
Because the vast majority of people who play games just spam past dialogue anyway, so it's not worth the money.
good writers are expensive
senior writers are expensive
20-something year old english majors who you can pay $15 an hour to willingly write fanfiction: good enough
seriously, the shitty writing in fallout makes sense when you consider the posibility that most of it was barely passable fanfiction written by "le gamur generation xD" straight out of college
People who write decent don't want to write for video games. They put their talent to more meaningful work.
>>333689443
Are you aware of how full of shit you are?
>>333692101
>MGS2 is a masterpiece of storytelling in gaming, easily one of the best.
Do you know why Kojima never got to live out his dream of becoming a film producer?
Do you think that if e managed a masterpiece that surpassed even the highest of expectations you could have for a story in a movie, he wouldn't have already been making billions in Hollywood?
The thing is that games usually have terrible stories and as such, the relative threshold of what constitutes good or bad is placed so low that even shit like the televisionized GoT series, which itself is a relatively bad series of books, has a story that is about an order of magnitude above anything that video games ever produced.
And it is fine, because games as a whole are not a storytelling medium.
>>333692507
but the writers in big companies gets paid as much as good writers are getting and produce college boy level stuff
>>333692621
>implying blizzard lost is penis shaft in recent years
Good Writers are expensive
AAA are going for lowest common denominator so no complicated deep stuff allowed
It's an investor ruled industry so you can't have a story without the moneylenders saying "ADD ROBOTS CALL OF DUTY HAS ROBOTS RIGHT?"
People no longer expect good value writing because they have accepted the current standard and even praise it
>>333692739
I agree with most of this except the "got is bad meme" because honestly the books are fantastic but still. I think gaming can pull off good stories, stories better than movies, the only medium that literally can't be outdone is literature.
>>333687978
They do it intentionally. It's Bethesda strategy - they are summer blockbuster trash kind of company now.
>>333692739
What about the souls series? That kind of storytelling can't be done anywhere else either.
>here's this world go explore it and find your own evidence and theorize
It's fucking brilliant, really.
>>333692961
you know how much dividends and salaries those not good writers metzen and buddies get?
they could as well get a platoon of literary writers with that money
instead they let metzen spend that amount in coke and meth so there's that
pandering to reddit
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/20082129/
look at the comments, actual reasonable gamers are no longer the target audience
>>333692961
>AAA are going for lowest common denominator
not really, they get paid at least as much as programmers which get 100k yearly
>>333693350
I was saying they aim their stories at the lowest common denominator to expand their potential audience
>>333693319
le reddit's taste is prestigious
well memed blizzrod :^)
>>333693402
oh, right
yup, western business model
niche market is dead, but i think it slowly coming back to life, very slowly
>>333693479
reddit leave
you fucking nigger
>>333687978
>executive producers
You are an infant.
>>333693168
Armored Core did the very same and no one ever batted an eye so I'm fairly confident it's not some story telling genius, just obsessive fans who pick the whole thing apart and give it an extra pair of legs.
Just think of what people did with MLP:FIM back in 2011 and how they gave every single character on screen their own name, character, backstories, how they expanded the world in many ways, drew maps of a place from which they saw almost nothing, et cetera.
The only thing more powerful than human imagination is desperation for new content.
The story isn't really there, the devs just put in the bare minimum and fans overblow it.
>>333693651
>executive producers
>le metzen and goons
these guys are so-called 'creative department ceos' who checks out millions in dividends and sallaries
yeah they are exec. producers
>>333693691
Never played AC so I can't speak on it really but I disagree. There is plenty of evidence to go off on in the souls game to where you can piece it together fine, however even if we take what you say as fact I still think it's an example of storytelling only possible through gaming and it really is.
>>333693350
It's funny because the only people worse off than pogrammers in the gaming industry are the artists.
In the end, working on games is generally viewed as a failed career choice akin to how most scientists who never make it end up teaching kids in high school.
>>333688208
more accurately most people simply cannot tell good writing from bad
>>333693989
Graphic design is actually a good field to get into though
I think it has more to do with good writers being hard to find or expensive and the mediocre writers that they already have are "good enough"
>>333694120
>gets laid off at age 40
>works as janitor for the rest of the life
>I was le graphic designer :DD
>>333693984
>I still think it's an example of storytelling only possible through gaming and it really is.
I just gave you a perfect counterexample. MLP:FIM or Gravity Falls, either of those cartoons could be viewed to be doing the same thing.
Ditto for tabletop RPGs which all rely on the players doing their own stories in GM's carefully crafted world.
>>333694196
Shows what you know, field is fucking booming right now and it isn't hard to find a job.
I really hate the Overwatch shorts despite looking forward to the game.
The writing in them is almost insulting. It's the most absolute generic shit that anyone could write.
>>333694120
Depends on what kind of job you like to have.
As long as you don't mind moving to a different state every few months because the artists go on the chopping block first when a studio gets close to finishing a project, I guess you're good.
>redditor ponyfags citing their degenerate autism show as example of good writing
its official, /v/ is dead
>>333688670
What's this .gif from?
stories are written bottom up
the game is developed and then writers are hired to staple a story on top of it
This invariably leads to nonsensical story because even if the writer is good he's bound to whatever logic(in quests and such) the developers came up with
>>333687978
They hire people with little or no experience to craft large, over-arching stories across an entirely bland game. Probably doing what they feel is worth the quality of the shit they put out.
lazy writers
>>333687978
You honestly just need to look at a case by case basis, and see who the writer is.
And if you do that you realize games are written by retards with no education and often by peopel with little to no writing experience.
Blizzard is plagued by bad writing at every corner by Chris Metzen, an animatgor who somehow due to his seniority at blizzard got in his head he can write while needing no prior experience or even not liking to read books.
Hes literally behind every crap story Blizzard ever produced, the clusterfuck of retarded deus ex machinas incoherent narrative and nonsensical contradictory characterization full of retcones and plain up mistakes that was Star Craft 2 plot was all his doing, same goes for what happened to warcraft lore.
Bethesda?
Emil Pagliarulo
A weird fat fuck who Is Chriz Metzen of this company, a clueless manchild who looks like he never leaves his home who somehow is became teh writer of every game bethesda did in last 15 years.
Even when every new game by him is worse in every way, and the worlds he creates lack any logic to their structure or even basic though put into them, he somehow won a writing award from this amazing industry.
Bioshock Infinite
Ken Lewine.
A guy whos ego inflated so fast, he manged to run into the ground a studio that was given him with no budget restrains, yet he still fucked it up making every lead leave prior to release forcing idiotic story changes nobody agreed with. Every game of his got progressively worse as he got more power in the studio, showing his complete ineptitude to work by himself as a writer ion the last game.
Can spot the pattern here?
A animator/artist/programmer who never read a good book in his life somehow gets in charge of writing a 100mln$ games story and what we get is fallout 4.
Basically, games arent written by people who love to read and write,
But not every game, old black isle, or obsidian or interplay had actual writers on staff, but hey, who needs them right?
>>333688576
>Both Blizz and Beth hang on to absolute shitty writers because they are entrenched, part of the "old guard" of the company at this point.
this desu senpai
