How do we define casual games and hardcore games? Is there a checklist that you can reference?
Because apparently Tetris is "casual" where I thought it was hardcore and had a high skill ceiling
casual game = no need to reach out for skill ceiling to enjoy
hardcore = cant even have fun without being tryhard nolife fag
If you don't know the difference, then you are casual.
Its fairly simple.
How the fuck does Tetris have a high skill ceiling, its literally just place tge block in tge right place: the game
>Mario Cart
Casual - You play it
Hardcore - You don't play it
Ez
>>333584502
This. Personally I never got the appeal of it or Mario Bros. All you do is just run and jump, or spin the blocks. It's basically just pressing buttons
>>333584382
>implying mario kart isn't hardcore
i've played with /v/ on the weekends a couple times and holy fuck, i'm lucky if i can get third to last
>>333584502
Git gud
>>333584502
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwC544Z37qo&index=65&list=WL
>>333584673
That's not them being good, that's the items being cheap
>>333584719
actually it mostly just me being shit. they all have the levels memorized so on 150 cc they can anticipate the turns and start drifting way ahead of time while i'm too late and end up slamming into the wall a bunch
I personally feel that the main difference between a casual and hardcore gamer is based on the diversity and number of the games they play. If you only play let's say around >5 a year, and those 5 games are likely games like call of duty, assassins creed, LOL or anything Nintendo. If this is the case then chances are you are a casual. 5+ games a year and they need to be a wide range of different in genres. I think at that point you can consider yourself a "hardcore gamer" what do you guys think I'm honestly curious?
>>333585160
>or anything Nintendo
casul fag detected
>>333584682
>i have zero reading comprehension
Hardcore is a game that doesn't hold your fucking hand for hours.
>Casual, pick up and play
Tetris
Doom
Angry Birds
Candy Crush
Skyrim
Solitaire
The Sims
Spore
Fable
2D Mario
>Hardcore, sit down and master
Fallout
Zelda
Pokemon
Team Fortress 2
Dark Souls
3D Mario
Catherine
Starcraft
League of Legends
>>333584382
"hardcore gamers" - Thinks only playing certain games makes them cool and care deepy about how they're percieved
"casual gamers" Play anything that they have a good time with.
I never understood why being called a casual is an insult. "haha you actually play games you find fun? what an idiot!!"
>>333585427
>pokemon
hardcore does not mean grindy fucking kids game
>>333584382
How to find hardcore game:
[ ] the game doesn't have quest markers pointing right at quest targets
[ ] the game doesn't have auto leveling enemies and loot
>>333584382
Arcade games are hardcore games. Everything else is casual shit.
>>333584382
if you care about silly labels like "casual" or "hardcore" than you are a caual
>>333585427
jej. this is pretty good bait.
>>333585463
Because you're not good if you're casual. You'll be worse than somebody who is hardcore and dedicated. Why do you have such an issue with this? It's similar to amateur and professional, where one implies you're good enough to make it a living and the other implies it's just a hobby and no big deal
>>333585427
clever, putting casual games in both categories, makes it harder to spot your bait
>>333585463
Casual is an insult because casuals ruin the industry with their shit taste for gameplay for the mentally challenged.
>>333585567
>implying anyone on /v/ actually has won pro gaming tournaments.
Most successful livestreamers play casual games
A hardcore game might explain a game that takes a lot more thought process to understand and play. It's not even so much it's narrative because games at their core are about playing video games. Not fucking watching a movie.
The reason why for example Skyrim is a laughing stock compared to Morrowind is that in morrowind you don't have everything automated for you.
It's the same reason why DS2 is so insultingly bad compared to DS1. When you "casualize" a game it means you have to appeal to everyone. And when you appeal to everyone things naturally start to lose their edge. google "Eternal September"
Or here, i'll do it for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
tl;dr when you have no regulations on who can get it it begins to get saturated with people who don't understand the medium and this causes companies to see that as information. So they try to pander to everyone to keep everyone happy. But the product ends up suffering because of it.
>>333585617
How so? Most games are ruined by DLC/microtransactions/lacking content, which are they game company's fault.
>>333585786
>millennials complaining about eternal september
epic
>>333585485
Pokemon could be both casual and hardcore depending on the player. VGC is definitely hardcore, especially if you don't use cheating devices to breed 6IV parents. The learning curve from the story mode to competitive battling is moderately steep, but once you've grasped the dozen or so concepts you need to master to build and use a competitive team, it basically becomes a bicycle and rock paper scissors simulator. Why anyone would want to master something so boring is beyond me, as just playing the story and collecting is fun enough for most.
I always took hardcore to mean something like, you play the hardcore games, and the hardcore games being the ridiculous, bad, or unfair games. Cryptic like Milon's Secret Castle, unfair like Ninja Gaiden, ridiculous like what they expect you to do with that one Arino played on Famicom that involves singing into the controller. Also games you can fuck up permanently in, rogue likes, CRPGs
and casual games are just regular decent games where you don't have to adjust to their shit.
>>333585567
But "casual" is still treated like an insult.
And casual gamers can definitely be good at games. I consider myself good at FPS games. I manage to enjoy videogames without being pretentious and hate everything that isn't "hardcore"
>>333585795
Spoken like a true casual. Modern games in general are fucking garbage.
>>333585786
>DS2
>casualised
Explain your reasoning please
>>333585925
how so? tell me why besides DLC/microtransactions/lacking content
>>333585786
>when you appeal to everyone
I wish some developers would decide that they wanted to cater to their fans who would buy their game, rather than try something new to appeal to something that isn't their target audience. I get that video games and consoles and shit are all about profit, so it would take an insanely non-jewish person to put gameplay and personal satisfaction over shekels.
>Cart
>>333585971
>tell me why fucking mens asses is gay besides the hair, the poop on my dick and the STDs. see? you can't, now go fuck that ass
>>333586028
ok so you agree with me then. it's the game companies that are ruining games with money grabbing.
>>333585971
Because they pander to casuals. Modern games are all way too fucking easy. They are barely games anymore, but just wannabe blockbuster movies with extreme overlength.
>>333586094
like what? be specific
>>333586160
Like every single modern game. Even shit like Dark Souls , which modern gamers define as the "hardest game ever" is fucking babby shit compared to really difficult games.
>>333585547
>This
Casual just implies shallow.
>>333586246
yeah because the graphics were so shitty in the old games you cant see where the fuck you were supposed to go.
Or cryptic-ass objectives. Yeah back in 1999 they were playable. But go back now and try to play old games. They suck. Sorry to break it to you.
>>333586380
Almost took the bait
>golden trails leading you to your objective
>stopping me every minute to explain something i could have figured out by pressing the buttons
>you died? restart right where you left off you fucking baby
>>333584502
How the fuck does chess have a high skill ceiling, it's literally just move the piece to the right place:the game
>>333585617
>as if the market has anything to do with games being developed poorly
Shitty game studios are the problem. Nothing promotes purchasing shitty games like there being no amazing games.
Whole genres go without improvement, especially MMOs.
>>333584382
>games you're good at
hardcore as fuck
>games you're bad at
babby casual pleb gayyymess xD
>>333586380
As if you millenial actually ever played any older game.
>>333586450
glad you didn't. you can go back to playing Elder Scrolls: Arena while the rest of us have fun with normal games.
>>333585985
uh, yeah. just like Mortal Combat
>>333586519
What is even your problem? If people only buy shit, then also only shit games exist.
>>333585485
>grindy
Spot the kid
if you play shooters, youre hardcore. everything else sucks.
>>333586380
>implying modern games are not all half-finsihed and full of bugs and glitches
Back then devs at least still finished their games
>>333585961
More ring slots and equipment slots make it easier to be a jack of all trades
>>333586529
oh mann got me good. I should really get back to my homework now.
Millenials are considered anyone born between 1980-early 2000s. SO unless you're like 37 sitting on /v/ you're just as millenial as anyone here. L2insult
>>333586674
>if you play shmups, youre hardcore. everything else sucks.
FTFY
>>333584382
Casual and hardcore have nothing to do with difficulty.
The criterion is complexity. A game like, say, CSGO is infinitely more hardcore than Kaizo Mario World, but playing it is way easier. You don't have much variation in KMW, so it's more casual.
But, say, you have a variant of CSGO that only pits you against smurfing Global Elite shitters, and Arma 2 that pits you against fa/tg/uys who have nowhere near that amount of twitch-reflexes GE shitters have, and no grasp on tactics.
Arma 2 is still way more hardcore than GE-edition CSGO, despite being easier to play and "win", because it allows for much more complex gameplay.
Complexity != difficulty.
>>333585961
Bonfire's being able to teleport you around instantly made it so you had less to worry about moving forward, because you knew wherever you went you would hit a primal bonfire or dead end (most being pretty close to bonfires)
>>333586824
Is that all?
Hardly a big deal
>>333586730
The half-finished part is from microtransactions/DLC, and I've never experienced glitches and bugs so bad it ruined my enjoyment of a game. Worst I've seen recently is the arkham knight pc release. but that's it. People like to over-exaggerate that shit.
>>333586809
>Casual and hardcore have nothing to do with difficulty.
Spotted the casual
>>333586880
Of course it's a big deal, being able to jumparound encouraged lazy as fuck level design, there was also some horseshit instant deaths, honestly i wouldn't even call ds2 casualized just worse than ds1, in theming, story, lore and immersion, the rpg bit of the action rpg i suppose.
>>333585485
>>333585605
>implying there aren't people who seriously think like that
Casual= Mario Kart
Hardcore= Garfield Kart
>>333586519
The market serves the customers, if the customers buy shit games shit games are made, you dunce.
A casual game is something someone can pick up and play, whilst only having thirty seconds worth of instructions given to them or less.
See: Wii Sports, Tetris, most Rhythm games, most Party games, most Hack n Slash, 90% of mobile games, shooting games, platformers, etc
A hardcore game is any game that you can leave for a month, and already begin forgetting how to play the game properly.
See: Most RPGs, MOBAs, etc
>>333587160
There's still no reason to blame the market if there are no great games.
Journalism? Forum discussion? Sure.. but not "muh trends".
>>333587107
Nah not really
Probably both the thought processes involved and how much room for error you have
>>333586809
Completely drivel.
Consequences are complexity.
Does it require you to git gud? No? Then it is casual
>>333584382
>cart
>>333584502
Why can't /v/ understand "easy to learn hard to master"? Is it because they're children?
>>333586925
>Defends his honor as "hardcore" in a pretentious way, deeply concerned about how he's percieved and what others think of his taste in games
>>333587107
Coming off of some really hype successful games lead to lazy level design.
If they had the time and inclination, they would have designed better levels, but apparantly they didn't. Isn't the narrative around that, that they were told half way through production to start again, so they cut it all up and stitched it together funny like?
>>333584382
casual requires little time investment to fully enjoy, is designed around playing in short bursts, etc.
hardcore requires a lot of time investment to fully enjoy
>>333587342
Could say the same about you. I'm just making fun of you filthy casuals here.
>>333586925
>spotted the casual
Gimme your Quake Live account, nigger, and we'll see who's the casual.
>>333587198
>A hardcore game is any game that you can leave for a month, and already begin forgetting how to play the game properly.
I have to leave a game like that for a year before I forget what room I was in.
I don't like your definition.
It especially trivialises the fact that some people don't even know how to hold a controller, whilst others can complete 'hardcore games' with dance pads and bongos.
>>333587431
Nope.
SWG was designed to be "log in, start some queues, log out", and it still retains elite prestige. It has nothing to do with fucking around and doing nothing.. Depth is key.
> >>333587280
>>333587280
>inane post
>unrelated picture
>>333587478
>multiplayer games
>not total casual shit
Come back when you 1cced Battle Garegga, or have a 30 million score in Ikaruga, then we can talk again.
I've always considered a casual game to be something with a very low skill ceiling. Games like Skyrim and most mobile games. Unfortunately this mindset always bites me in the ass since the last two Call of Duty games have had fairly high skill ceilings. But then you delve into whether its skill or just ludicrous twitch reaction time.
Hardcore games have always been something that requires a modicum of skill and knowledge of common video game conventions to play, along with a skill ceiling that's higher than most games on the market.
TL;DR Casual means that every retard, mother, and politician can play it and still win. Hardcore means you actually have to have some form of skill to play and beat it.
>>333587538
>inane
It's completely accurate.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LewisPulsipher/20120122/90939/Depth_versus_Variety_a_Fundamental_Change_in_Game_Playing_in_the_Past_3040_Years.php
>hardcore games
games i like
>casual games
games you like
>>333584382
Some people on /v/ have completely lost track of what casual actually means. Casual games are generally games that are very easy to get into and play. Anyone can learn Tetris in 2 minutes.
>>333586809
>kaizo is casual
Okay tough guy.
>>333587562
>Unfortunately this mindset always bites me in the ass since the last two Call of Duty games have had fairly high skill ceilings. But then you delve into whether its skill or just ludicrous twitch reaction time.
Would skill floor be a better term for it?
>>333587631
sickalicious, pinpoint accurate burn.
>>333584382
>Skyrim
>Can pause in the middle of combat to use whatever you need to survive.
>Only threat is caused by a lack of preparedness.
>More interactive story than game.
>Mario kart
>Competitive gameplay
>Original mechanics
>It's actually a video game that you get better at rather than just play longer.
People are retarded if they think 2edgy4me aesthetics = hardcore game.
>>333587631
>hardcore games
games /v/ does not play
>casual games
games /v/ plays
>>333587547
>I can only play 2d shmups with no thought involved
>I'm too much of a goldfish to remember levels
>I can't handle actual multiplayer
>You are a casual!
Ha-ha. Ha. Go play Super Mario and Pong while you are at it.
>>333587448
>needs to make fun of "casuals" on /v/ because of poor self-esteem in real life. In reality, he yearns for acceptance, mentioning his tastes in obscure games and maxing difficulties any chance he gets.
>>333587606
Except variety in a properly designed game creates depth.
If you took the railgun or a nade launcher out of Quake 3, it'd lose depth. If you took SCUs out of Supreme Commander, it'd lose depth.
If you took Allies out of HoI3, leaving only USSR and Germans, the game would lose depth.
Adding a reskin of a gun and saying it's a new gun, like CoD kids do, doesn't add any variety nor depth.
>>333587562
CoD is as much about positioning as twitch reactions. Blops 3 is by no means an intense skill ceiling game though. The maps, for example, just force every character into the same 30 sq. yards, coming back and forth between the only 2 spawn points, barely an interesting decision to be.
>>333587774
I also could beat your ass in Street Fighter 3rd Strike, but I don't consider multiplayer games hardcore. They are always only as hardcore as your opponent is, and most people who play multiplayer games are not good at them.
>>333584693
Funny thing: He would lose most competitive versions of tetris because they all include this skill-annihilating feature where as you send blocks your opponent basically gets free lines by landing a single block.
>>333584382
>Mario Kart
>Not fucking hardcore
Its fucking savage game filled with RNG where one little mistake could land you in dead last.
When did the meaning of hardcore and casual become so fucking blurred ?
>>333587961
Let's play a game of "spot the console kiddy who never played any actual competitive game like DN3D, Q1/3, UT, SC1 or WC3"... I won.
>>333587990
That guy is the worlds best Tetris player. He doesn't even have any competition anymore.
Casual= most AAA games because they focus on normies
Hardcore: indie games like enter the guneon
>>333588139
>WC3
>actually competitive
come on now
>>333588139
Back to Cawadooty with you
>>333588127
You can make no mistakes and still end up dead last.
>>333587948
Games are designed with their mechanics, sure, but that whole set of examples is pretty shallow. There's little depth to Quake 3. It's just pretty challenging making it to the top of a game. What wouldn't be said is that Pokemon is deep because it has lots of variety. It's still the exact same combat system, etc. Consequences exist for picking a roster, but that's not really "depth of gameplay". There's no betting on the roster, for example, and there's no loss or benefit of anything else.
Casual gamers gravitate from game to game without spending a lot of time in each
Hardcore gamers devote a lot of time to mastering the games they play
No game is naturally casual/hardcore, it can only be insofar as it tries to attract a certain demographic. A lot of people decry games like league of legends as being "casual", but there is no arguing that it has a large hardcore community in most countries of the globe.
>>333588327
You seem to be extremely ignorant about the games you talk about
Saying pokemon has no depth is the stupidest shit I have ever heard
>>333584382
hard core games have complex systems and or require a lot of hand eye coordination and memorization
a casual game can be picked up by any one and they could do well. ALL FPS are casual games. some will argue it takes goot reflexes and hand eye but movement speed was nerfed long ago in the industry so normies could keep up. burst of run speed are still slow and dont offset turn speed so aiming is faster than movement
ALL puzzle games are casual, ALL sports games are casual. half of all fighting games are casual
the industry is casual oriented and always has been
>>333587718
but /v/ doesn't play games.
Checkmate SJW's!
>>333588371
LoL is a multiplayer game. Every single multiplayer game in existence can have hardcore fans.
Still LoL is a casual game though, because casuals still can enjoy it anyway. Same goes for every other multiplayer game.
>>333588478
4 potential actions on a TBG isn't deep.
>>333584502
How the fuck does English have a high skill ceiling, its literally just place the letter in the right place: the game.
>>333588371
>No game is naturally casual/hardcore, it can only be insofar as it tries to attract a certain demographic
This guy knows what's up.
>>333588327
>There's no betting on the roster, for example, and there's no loss or benefit of anything else.
What ? there's a clear cost of opportunity and risk to every pokemon you add to your roster. The current popular meta needs to be considered as well as the movesets of potential counters, and stats need to be compared to figure out the most advantageous trades. It's an incredibly complex system where you gamble on what your opponent will likely be bringing.
>>333588601
See >>333588537
Loss or benefit is discussing further outcomes from something like 1v1ing online.
>>333588528
Casuals can enjoy hardcore games, your arguement is fucking stupid. Tons of casuals enjoyed SC1, Counterstrike, Street Fighter 2, etc. Think a little you fucking retard.
>>333588528
LoL is the only game that makes me never talk to a person again IRL if they mention they play it.
Casual game is something your mom would be able to play.
>>333588673
you basically agreed with him. you look like the fucking retard not him.
>>333588537
>blanket statement that is both factually wrong (you have 5 actions in pokemon), but also ignores the fact that team building means each of those 5 actions on everyone of your pokemons was a conscious choice
you sound like a game designer student
they usually don't know shit about games and never manage to make an actually good one
>>333588537
The depth of pokemon is in reaching perfection. The main game is accessible, sure, but the systems are designed such that if someone wants to play the game in a hardcore way, then it's entirely possible.
This guy sums it up perfectly.
>>333588371
Most games aren't casual or hard core themselves, they simply cater to either audience to varying degrees. It's a spectrum, like retardation.
>>333584502
Nigga you don't know shit https://youtu.be/qaMjbnvZMck
>>333588673
The games you listed there are not hardcore games, fucktard.
Multiplayer games in general are not hardcore games. They can be easy as fuck depending on how good your opponent is.
>>333585427
>League of Legends
>pokemon
rofl look at him
tell me if these are hardcore or casual
Snowboard Kids 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Silver Surfer
Starcraft Brood War
STALKER Pripyat
Shenmue
Super Contra
Secret of Mana
Sonic Adventure 2
>>333588784
>arguement is "casuals like it so it's casual"
>say it's retarded and prove it
>"wow you just agreed with him"
do you have brain damage
>>333588815
>5
What, switching characters? Sure.
>>333588838
Is the gameplay deep? No? Discussion finished.
>>333588886
>Multiplayer games in general are not hardcore games
okay, brain damage it is
>>333588932
he says multiplayer games are casual with hardcore fans.
LoL is multiplayer so it is casual.
>YOU FUCKING RETARD TONS OF CASUALS ENJOY CS AND SF2 AND SC1 YOU CUNT FUCK IM PISSED GOD YOU'RE A RETARD
^you
>>333588987
>is the game deep
you are literally the only person on earth arguing its not, I hope you realise
without bringing anything to the table but "it only has 4 actions per pokemon". That's not even the beginning of an arguement, that's nothing.
>>333588987
So you think the gameplay of pokemon is only like 5% of what the actual gameplay is.
By your logic being an Olympic sprinter is nothing because they only have to run fast for 10 seconds.
You're ignoring the hours of preparation required to play competitively.
>>333589081
>smash bros is a hardcore game
Spotted the retard
>>333589081
>your retarded
>>333589202
>no your retarded
Thread is dying. Abort! Abort!
To me hardcore games are games which tend to require a lot of dedication from the player. They don't necessarily have to be difficult, but they have to require a significant time investment. Something like MMOs or even Skyrim are definitely hardcore no matter how braindead and easy they are, while something like arcade games would be casual even if they are insanely difficult. Of course you can still play hardcore games casually and casual games in a hardcore way. It's a mess.
>>333589202
how is it not shitposter kun
please name a game you consider hardcore
>>333589324
>how is it not shitposter kun
Because it is a multiplayer game. Multiplayer games do not have real difficulty. They are only as difficult as your opponent is. They can not be hardcore games. They can only have hardcore players.
>please name a game you consider hardcore
Gradius III is a hardcore game.
The line is blurred and is usually up to the player's personal choice.
In reality it's usually the idiots looking for an excuse to call eveyrone else a casual. When in truth they are themselfs.
>>333589151
Leveling is archaic.
Just because a game has lots of variety is no suggestion that it's has deep gameplay.
>>333584382
Casual games have mass appeal (AssCreed, Dark Souls, Pokemon, Uncharted)
Hardcore games don't actually exist, hell, most "hardcore gamers" probably have never seen third level of Pacman
>casual this
>casual that
just try to reach top hi-score here in normal mode, I double dare you motherfuckers
It's most brutal match 3 I ever played
>>333589517
what's your arbitrary definition of deep gameplay? what is your measuring stick you use as a cutoff point?
>>333589476
Gradius III isn't a hardcore game, it's a difficult one. Like all arcade games it was meant to be played for short sessions. It doesn't waste your time and even if you play it ideally it's a very short game. You can practice it for hours on MAME nowadays but that doesn't mean it's how it was meant to be played.
>>333588987
Gameplay in pokémon can become a mindgame competition, where you try and read what your opponent wants to do and thus will do, and act accordingly by item use, attacks and defensive abilities, switching and what not. This ties in with all the different stats and weaknesses/strengths, where you can switch to a pokémon with high special or regular defense, or to a pokémon with a strength to the opponents attribute.
Different builds and compositions also need to be made with some rather interesting, at least to me, team design and variety. There's also the question whether or not a build in question can handle any situation that pops up in 'competitive' play or how well it can at least mitigate the damage done. Honestly, pokémon gets some bad rap since what most people would see is the mostly dull and predictable 'story mode' as it were, and haven't given it a fair shake.
>>333589598
Energy. Concentration.
>>333589578
This looks like a puzzle game I played on my dads boyfriends Game Gear at the hospital. You matched up animal heads and I thought "that's so stupid, they should just be gems or blocks"
>>333589517
>leveling is archaic
What's your alternative to game progression outside leveling? Levels? Levels are even more archaic. Purely gear? looting is also archaic. Tell me your new revolutionary alternative.
>>333589764
>Purely gear? looting is also archaic.
No.
>>333589764
Probably something retarded like "you level your own skills!"
>>333589668
>Gradius III isn't a hardcore game, it's a difficult one.
That's basically what a hardcore is, dumbfuck. A difficult game.
>Like all arcade games it was meant to be played for short sessions.
What does this even have to do with this? Fact is that the game is very difficult, which means it is a hardcore game. Just because people can play Skyrim for hours with no end, also doesn't mean they are hardcore players.
>>333589790
so you want purely gear upgrades?
Games have been doing that since pre-1995
>>333589937
"Obsolete" vs "established"
casual is literally a buzzword for games/generes i dont like. dota is very hard to learn and incredibly hard to master yet its often referred to as casual garbage. to care about this distinction youd first have to take /v/ seriously which is a ridiculous concept
>>333589918
That's not at all what "hardcore" means. Many casual games are very difficult, just look at fucking Tetris. Casual games are games that are meant for short play sessions without much commitment, and that's exactly what arcade games were.
>>333584382
>>333584382
casual:
linear/streamlined, tutorials everywhere, too much "reward", trending features, pop culture and meme references, "press X to propel cringey story" game play, predictable and usually easy. also gay.
genres of casual games are usually ones that are trending or are a dead horse due to being beaten for too long.
hardcore is kind of a cringey term that i never use.
Hardcore: games that have a variety of mechanics to master
Casual: games with one or only a few mechanics to master
Difficullty has nothing to do with it: See flappy bird. 1 mechanic, but hard as balls.
>>333585786
>sure is eternal september in this thread
>>333589986
How is leveling obsolete? You want to begin a game with endgame gear and one-shot everything?
Or have an NPC hand you a progressively better full set of gear every 30 minutes of game time?
>>333590119
So by your logic arcade games are basically the most casuals games ever or what? This is what casuals actually believe?
You are so fucking stupid you'd honestly label the gameplay of games like Ketsui or whatever as "casual gameplay" and would recommend it to casuals? You have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about.
>>333590247
>leveling .. [vs] starting with end-game gear
Straw.
Leveling is obsolete because imagining leveling up another MMO character seems legitimately the worst gameplay idea.
>>333588906
This list is S-Core
My answer is: You don't.
I don't see any particular advantage to making the distinction, aside from the obvious masturbatory implications.
to me hardcore is a mix of tedium (time spent), difficulty and no handholding. If it has those 3 things its hardcore
>>333590352
learn to identify a strawman. Leveling controls gear progression.
Plenty of games have enjoyable leveling outside of MMOs. They have a story which happens to have leveling. Or actual levels.
>>333590347
Yes and I have. Have you never played Giga Wing or Dodonpachi casually with friends had a whole lot of fun? The games are still fun as fuck even if you don't practice the stages, learn scoring or go for second loops. Not to mention that unlike Gradius 3 you restart back where you died so it's even MORE casual-friendly. Sorry, you're an idiot.
>>333590453
It is straw, as it's undermining a whole argument as a shitty summary.
>Leveling controls gear progression
Unnecessary.
>Plenty of games have enjoyable leveling outside of MMOs
Not really.
>>333590296
this is the most melodramatic bullshit ever.
Since the creation of splitscreen gaming has always been social.
I mean fuck, we enjoyed it as kids. And here we are still.
>>333590148
this
also pic related
its what it feels like to play a casual game
>>333590568
its not a straw. You saw the meme image and now over-classify things as strawmans.
What should control gear progression besides leveling/levels then?
And yea plenty...to name a couple series... Dark souls, Far Cry, borderlands, call of duty, battlefield, diablo, dragons dogma, need for speed, elder scrolls, fallout, the witcher... ect...
>>333584502
Show us your 40 line clear time if it's so easy
>>333590542
Any game can be fun if you are retarded and play with friends. That says absolutely nothing about if the game is casual or not. I also could play Dark Souls or whatever (which by your completely retarded definition must be a hardcore game) and have fun with friends casually playing it.
>>333588887
So you're like, Challenger or something right?
Just cause it's shit doesn't mean it doesn't have a high skill ceiling fuccboi.
>>333590760
>CoD
>BF
>D3
>NFS
>interesting leveling
Wew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZkCPo7tC0
>>333590826
You need to invest a significant amount of time in Dark Souls to even be able to play with friends since otherwise you won't get the white soapstone. Not to mention that you have to learn all of its RPG systems to make a proper build. If you die you lose progress, and have to summon a friend again. If you die in Ketsui you start back from where you left off, and if you pop in another credit it even gives you a full power up to encourage you to stay in the game. And are you just going to ignore that this is exactly how most people played and play arcade games? Even people who try to do a basic 1-ALL are rare. You should stop viewing "casual" as an insult, it's a description.
Casual players distract themselves for a bit with video games, often on easier difficulties, playing games, like the title suggests, casually and in a care-free manner.
Hardcore players like playing games on hard difficulties, often the hardest, and thrive on mastering a game and beating something particularly tough for the thrill of the accomplishment.
Some games only target casuals well, other games only target hardcore players well. You'll find that in the vast majority of games, though, there is plenty of space for both.
>>333590576
You're such a fucking dumbass. If that's what you took from the image, end yourself
>>333590917
that's a strawman, misrepresenting my arguement. I said enjoyable. You said I said "interesting".
Your original argument was
"Obsolete" vs "established"
I answered with a question asking you to clarify, then asked if you supported two possible alternatives that would be the result of leveling being removed from games.
That is not a strawman. L2 identify fallacies
>>333591106
There are more options than having to level and starting with end-game gear.
L2 not backpedal.
>>333591038
>thinking they were a part of an original gaming "cult"
games became widely popular by the 1970s, which I seriously doubt you were alive then.
>>333584693
Fuck that's impressive
>>333591223
like what? My original question was how is What's your alternative to game progression outside leveling? Levels? Levels are even more archaic. Purely gear? looting is also archaic. Tell me your new revolutionary alternative.
You still have not answered, besides saying "no" to gear progression being archaic.
L2 actually answer questions instead of being vague and misidentifying fallacies.
>>333591015
>You need to invest a significant amount of time in Dark Souls to even be able to play with friends
You don't need any time at all to play this. Any retard can pick up the controller and run around killing brainless zombies.
>otherwise you won't get the white soapstone
You also can play with friends not online you dumbfuck. If you can play Dodonpachi with friends without being online, then you also can play Dark Souls without being online with friends, you fucktrad.
>Not to mention that you have to learn all of its RPG systems to make a proper build
You do not need to know this to play the game, just like you also do not need to know how to chain to play Dodonpachi.
>And are you just going to ignore that this is exactly how most people played and play arcade games?
People who seriously played these games, surely did more than just casually playing for one or two credits. The people you describe there barely played these games anyway, you fucking retard. Yet, you'd recommend these games to them, although they barely would play it for an hour? You are just fucking retarded.
>>333591381
>can't admit defeat
Hardcore = dungeon crawlers and roguelikes, fighting games, some RTS games.
That's it.
Any other genre is casual.
>>333591253
It explains how BOTH an entire hobby and a game fanbase can be degregaded. Team Fortress 2 for example, look at where it is now compared to what it was
that is the last I'm spoonfeeding you, go figure the fuck out how to read a goddamn image and put things into context before replying to me again. i'll know it's you.
>>333584502
i would argue that tetris is the best video game ever made, high level of skill is needed to play it really well and the only flaw is the skill of the person playing.
>>333591621
>literally did nothing to "defeat me" and presented no viable alternatives or specific examples
>>333584382
>I muh gaymer, I play skyrim, action RPG, cisgo, and, console ports/games xD
>>333584382
Skyrim is easy as shit
literally every Mario Kart is at least 10x as difficult
>>333591637
People get bored of a game. I highly doubt anyone can play a game for almost 10 years straight and not play something else. New players are always going to be cycling in.
TF2 was bundled in the orange box in 2007, which was a very popular game. It didn't follow your cultist comparisons. There was always a wide audience with that game.
>>333584382
Casual: Someone who plays a game now and then to kill time.
Hardcore: Someone who considers playing games their hobby.
Hardcore gamer or hell even just gamer sounds fucking stupid though.
>>333588286
>I have no idea what competitive games are!
>CSGO, CoD and BF3/4 are competitive!
You are genuinely retarded. Commit yourself.
>>333588906
>Snowboard Kids 2
Casual
>Super Mario Bros. 3
Casual
>Super Mario World
Casual
>Silver Surfer
no idea
>Starcraft Brood War
Hardcore
>STALKER Pripyat
Hardcore
>Shenmue
Hardcore
>Super Contra
Casual
>Secret of Mana
Casual
>Sonic Adventure 2
Casual
Anybody who labels their self as a "hardcore gamer" (or even a "gamer" at all) is a massive tryhard faggot.
Most games these people tout as being "hardcore" are braindead simple AAA shit that they bought because advertisements on TV said it would make them look cool to their classmates.
>>333584382
Fuck off, Mario kart is pure gold, the idea that anyone looks down on it is absurd to me.
>>333584382
that pic is just pure cancer and i do play skyrim
>>333592240
If Cawadooty wouldn't be competitive, it wouldn't have its own tournaments, fucktard.
Being competitive doesn't mean shit. Cawadooty is still casual crap anyway, just like any other multiplayer game. Kill yourself.
>>333592240
com·pet·i·tive
kəmˈpedədiv/
adjective
adjective: competitive
1.
of, relating to, or characterized by competition.
"a competitive sport"
synonyms: ruthless, aggressive, fierce; More
Darwinian;
informaldog-eat-dog, cutthroat
"a highly competitive industry"
having or displaying a strong desire to be more successful than others.
"she had a competitive streak"
synonyms: ambitious, zealous, keen, pushy, combative, aggressive
"a competitive player"
antonyms: apathetic
2.
as good as or better than others of a comparable nature.
>>333592240
Literally every game that has two or more players compete against each other is competitive.
>>333591381
Skill progression.
In Dwarf Fortress, regardless of what your fortress has, if you don't know how to manage it, you will fuck up and lose the moment you load up someone's fortress.
In OFP or Arma, regardless of what you have as equipment - be it a SMLE or a tacticool AK-107, you will get wrecked by an autist who spent last 10 years perfecting his sneaking skills and aim who can put a bullet through your skull at 600 meters in a windy, rainy day because he looks at how the grass bends around him and has a ballistic computer in his head.
So, imagine some traditional RPG like Baldur's Gate, but instead of leveling your party, you learn how to correctly position them and how to best play everyone's strengths.
You already do it to an extent, you theoretically can win any fight underleveled by being a hyperskilled shitter, but it would take so much tries it won't be funny.
A good example is Shadowrun PnP. Combat is highly lethal, no matter how awesome your character is, a group of street scum can and will ruin his day if he lost control of the situation.
>>333584382
Before Microsoft entered the market and brought with them brute force marketing and outside interest into gaming that didn't belong, and before Sony started catering to wiggers, weaboos, and other normies (no they didn't always pander directly to weebs, kill yourself. The games were played by everyone. dont even try and compared FF, grandia and others to MOESHIT we have now you underage fags) and before Nintendo got scared by the bigger corporations and ran away with their tail between their legs and catered to the blue ocean of nongamers and casuals, we didn't need a distinction between core and casual.
Now because games are simplified, dumbed down, or just generic or tryhard to cater to specific demographics to maximize profit, the need to "class" games like this has become completely necessary where it wasn't before because the overall design of the games was well and good off on its own enough that we didn't have to.
This is the exact truth with no bias take it or leave it, I don't care. You'll damage control regardless for your favorite CORPORATION.
Also it's sad that I have to fucking disclaimer my point on Sony because the modern fanbase basically has Sony's dick in their mouth at all times and guzzles corporate jizz liek its their favorite snack. Its fucking disgusting but true.
>>333591624
>>333592240
Also known as
>Q3 veteran raped me, so e-sports aren't hardcore and now I'll tell everyone CoD is true e-sports!
Nigga, you are comparing school boys playing football with a World Championship match.
First one is casual, second is hardcore.
>>333592917
>The games were played by everyone.
That's not true at all. Back then casuals also mostly played shit like Secret of Mana, or Chrono Trigger, while they now play Skyrim or Witcher 3.
Games which actually require skills to be really enjoyable, like shmups or many rythm games, they also never touched back then.
>>333593183
Yeah, thats true to a point. But we still didn't need the distinction at the time because the quality of game was high enough that everyone had their thing and could try what they want without feeling alienated because they had their thing. Now those same genres which were peoples comfort zone before are sold out to direct demographic pandering to maximized profit from normies.
What you're citing personal taste of individuals vs business practice which is what im pointing out, and doesnt actually address my argument.
funny enough that Mario Maker is probably infinitely more hardcore than many of the more popular games nowadays
>>333593183
>Games which actually require skills to be really enjoyable, like Doom and Quake, they also only touched by white people back then.
FTFY
>>333593307
Yea hardcore games basically died out, that's why people wonder what they actually are, that's true.
People wonder what being a casual means, because 99% of gamers are casuals nowadays, while back then, games still were much more challenging in general.
>>333587118
This, suck a dick Heathcliff
>>333593526
I played Quake II a lot with friends back then. I was not really good at the game but had tons of fun anyway.
If you are not good at a shmup though, you will not have much fun. Maybe some shallow fun for half an hour, but then it starts to get frustrating and annoying if you are not seriously improving.
Hardcore and Casual aren't measures of quality, difficulty or even skill required.
They are measures of required time investment. A braindead simple jrpg that requires a ton of grinding to defeat by design is hardcore despite being low quality, easy and requiring almost no skill.
>>333591387
>You also can play with friends not online you dumbfuck.
Yeah? How? Does it offer local co-op?
>You do not need to know this to play the game
You don't need to plan your build, find the blacksmith, find out how weapon upgrading works, find the fucking soapstone to play Dark Souls with friends or alone? You fucking mong. Not to mention this doesn't apply to just friends, you can play shmups alone like you'd play them with friends, casually. Chaining in Dodonpachi is irrelevant, the only thing outside of score it gives you are extends and those aren't important for people who are credit feeding.
>People who seriously played these games
Those were and are a very tiny minority. And hell, even dedicated players often get by with 1-2 hours of practice a day. And yeah of course I'd recommend arcade games to people who play them once or twice while credit feeding, are you retarded? Very few people who play arcade games can or even want to 1cc them or get decent scores, that doesn't mean they're not having fun.
>>333593902
Wouldn't that mean games like League of Legends and Farmville are hardcore since you spend countless hours on them?
>>333594076
Depends on how long the play sessions are. If the game's supposed to be enjoyed in short bursts then it's casual even if it's endless and you sink thousands of hours into it.
>>333594287
I'd say if you have to plan around playing a certain game in your daily life it is hardcore
>>333594030
>Yeah? How? Does it offer local co-op?
You can also just pass the controller whenever someone dies or kills a boss, dumbfuck.
>You don't need to plan your build, find the blacksmith, find out how weapon upgrading works, find the fucking soapstone to play Dark Souls with friends or alone?
Of course you don't. People played through the game naked, merely armed with binoculars in under one hour already. Advancing in these games is simple as fuck. It basically plays by itself. You just have to walk around and repeatedly press R1 and dodge on enemies.
>Chaining in Dodonpachi is irrelevant
Planing your build in Dark Souls is also irrelevant for people who want to play the game casually.
>Very few people who play arcade games can or even want to 1cc them or get decent scores, that doesn't mean they're not having fun.
Very few people also want to play through Dark Souls, or get all achievements or whatever. Only a small amount of people who played this game actually finished it. This basically goes for every game in existence, dumbfuck.
>>333592480
>Anybody who labels their self as a "hardcore gamer" (or even a "gamer" at all) is a massive tryhard faggot.
Take this all the way to the fucking bank.
>>333594617
>You can also just pass the controller whenever someone dies or kills a boss, dumbfuck.
So it's not actually designed for two players? Nice.
>People played through the game naked, merely armed with binoculars in under one hour already.
Yeah, while also using the red tearstone ring and a lightning reinforced club.
>Planing your build in Dark Souls is also irrelevant for people who want to play the game casually.
It's absolutely vital to your progress. Chaining is completely irrelevant.
>Only a small amount of people who played this game actually finished it.
Yeah, and almost everyone who plays shmups casually finishes them (the occasional extra stage/TLB aside). See the difference, you insufferable shit eating retard?
>>333584382
spiders in skyrim give me the heebie jeebies
>>333584382
What's wrong with enjoying casual games anyway? It's not like one genre forbiddens you to enjoy the other.
>>333594990
>enjoying games
>/v/
>>333584502
how the fuck have touhou and other shmups such a high-skill ceiling when you only need to dodge projectiles?
>>333584719
There's a bunch of autists on /v/ that will end up first no matter how much broken items you throw at them. The rng galore actually doesn't affect you that much as long as you're good. Specially since good players manage to distance themselves from the bunch so much they'd need to go on coffee break to get surpassed.
>>333594787
>So it's not actually designed for two players? Nice.
What does this even fucking matter? You can play any game with friends obviously.
>Yeah, while also using the red tearstone ring and a lightning reinforced club.
Doesn't change the fact that Souls games are easy and any retard can advance in them.
>It's absolutely vital to your progress. Chaining is completely irrelevant.
It's not vital at all. You don't have to play through the whole game to be able to have fun with friends playing the game. You also can just play in Undead Burg for some time and have fun.
>Yeah, and almost everyone who plays shmups casually finishes them (the occasional extra stage/TLB aside). See the difference, you insufferable shit eating retard?
You do not understand that the only way to beat a shmup is by 1CCing it. The vast majority of people who play games always play them casually, no matter the game.
>>333595092
How about you try playing the games before talking about them. If you just try to dodge projectiles in any decent shmup you will get fucked very quickly. A lot of the depth comes from balancing offense and dodging while trying to minimize risk and figure out how to dodge things. Then the challenge comes from executing it all well while only being allowed a few mistakes. That's not even getting into the scoring systems these games.
>>333595289
how about reading
Don't define hardcore or casual games. It's always the player. There are people who play accessible games hardcore and there are players who play competitive games casually.
>>333584628
>It's basically just pressing buttons
>>333596148
Yeah that too, probably the coolest transferable skill
is dark souls difficult?
>>333595289
people with autism have trouble detecting sarcasm
>>333595270
What kind of 1cc are we talking about? Because if it's just a simple clear of the first loop, there is no reason that it would require anyone to go full autist with the games. You just play a few credits every day and you'll get that 1cc soon enough. I really don't see why you take issue with calling arcade games casual, because that's one of their strengths. They're the most satisfying types of games for short bursts because of their short length/high intensity and typically have so much depth and difficulty that you can spend hundreds of hours playing them while still being challenged and learning new things constantly. It's not like Fallout where an hour of playing will accomplish nothing and will just leave you unsatisfied.
or you know
just drop the whole gamer thing in general
>>333596752
>Because if it's just a simple clear of the first loop, there is no reason that it would require anyone to go full autist with the games
No matter the game, a first loop still would require more concentration and effort than playing through games like Dark Souls, which are basically just time consumers and don't take any effort or skill at all.
>It's not like Fallout where an hour of playing will accomplish nothing and will just leave you unsatisfied.
Of course it's like that. If you play any shmup for only an hour you also will accomplish nothing.
>>333585972
Most devs do want to create a niche over lowest common denominator casual crap. However making games is usually expensive so that means handing financing over to a bunch of kikes who don't give a shit about videogames and just want the most secure return on their investment, aka make it appeal to everyone.
Crowdfunding could have been a foil to this but the good will and trust was abused by a bunch of greedy and incompetent idiots.
>>333597270
Well of course it would, shmups are far more difficult and demanding. But games like Dark Souls or Fallout are pretty much designed to be played for long periods of time because they rely so much on the player getting immersed in the world, exploration and reading. Playing them in short bursts will kill most of that enjoyment. On the other hand playing a shmup for an hour each day will still be satisfying because you might get further than you did last time, or figure out a safer way to get through a part that was giving you trouble, or get a better score.
>>333584693
>>333588867
>never really seen high-level Tetris play before
Damn, that's really interesting. Kinda makes me want to break out Tetris DS and try to git gud.
>casual
AAA shit (cod, gta, dark souls, asscreed, etc), modern nintendo
>hardcore
some indie games, nes/snes-era games, romhacks, made up challenges for casual games
>>333596482
It's not always the player though. A game like Godhand will require a lot more up front skill to play, than a game like Assassins Creed
>>333587332
>Is it because they're children?
well yes. the avg user age on /v/ is 17 yo
>>333588537
I'm not even into competitive Pokemon and I know that's horseshit. Pokemon is actually one of the deepest JRPGs there are.
>>333590296
>>333586509
More like be born as an autist.
>>333597856
It's funny because it's true.
If you can beat him, you're officially hardcore.
>>333590296
>women are in my hobby! It's a sign of the E N D times!
People who believe this should be forcibly converted to islam then made to eat pork IMO
>>333591910
>literally every Mario Kart is at least 10x as difficult
>tfw still haven't gotten 3-stars on every cup on Mirror Mode in MK7
WHAT IS EVEN THE CRITERIA FOR THAT BULLSHIT
>>333597591
>Playing them in short bursts will kill most of that enjoyment.
Have you even played a shmup seriously? Tried to get "the full enjoyment out of it"? If you really want to get good at a shmup and get the most enjoyment out of it, you literally have to make to your job. Even if you don't play them for 3 three days you already become shit at them again. RPGs may be about immersion and exploration, but shmups are about scoring. And playing for score takes a lot more dedication to the game, than getting immersed in an RPG. The reason rpgs can be played all day is precisely because they are not taxing on the individual and therefore by definition are casual whilst a 3-4 hr grinding session for score will demand so much more concentration, frustration and will power.
>>333598145
If you take the argument in that direction the entire distinction between casual and hardcore games becomes kinda pointless. I'm sure that getting a world recording in Flappy Bird is a gruelling process as well, and RPGs also have things like speedruns and challenge modes that allow you to compete with other people.
>>333597816
>Variety is depth
Meme.
>>333595107
It's amazing how many people think "hang back to get items" is a viable strategy post-MKWii. Sure, 1st may need to take a blue shell every now and then, but it's never anywhere near the amount of shit 2nd place constantly gets pummeled with. The only viable Mario kart strategy is to take 1st, then not fuck up on the driving and hope there's only going to be one or fewer blue shells.
>>333598460
Variety intrinsically gives a game at least some resemblance of depth. If a game gives you fuck all for options, then it severely limits the way you play, meaning it's shallow as fuck. Why the hell do you think vanilla Ninja Gaiden 3 was so shallow compared to Ninja Gaiden Black or 2?
And that's not even getting into shit like IVs, Pokemon types and weaknesses, buffs and debuffs, etc.
I'm not even that much into Pokemon but it's the perfect example of a deep, hardcore game that has a lot of casual appeal. A game that were simple but with a lot of complexity in spite of or even partially because of an aspect of its simple design. You can play Pokemon by just steamrolling your way through the main game with a starter Pokemon and a few others, sure, or you could really get into it, wrap your head around the mechanics, and get deep into the meta-game.
