>Skills have multiple levels
>Each level just increases duration/range/damage etc
How do you feel about this sort of design?
>>333158517
I feel like you should come up with your own ideas for your shitty indy game
>>333158517
Dumb. Caring about numbers is autistic as fuck. Make the skills actually change how the game plays, not just tweaking numbers. No one gives a fuck.
>>333158629
What do you expect? Just about every "indie" "game dev" is shit at applied math and thinking critically.
>>333158629
That's impossible only a professional idea guy can come up with ideas.
>>333158517
Depends on what the game is exactly.
>>333158517
I hate it, and it's just used so the developers can inflate the numbers. 188 perks! Too bad that over 100 of them are just iterative percentage increases on some mundane 10% damage increase. Each perk/talent/skill should provide some new function or tweak to an existing function. Anything less is just lazy.
>Skill A
>It does X
>Upgrade skill A
>It now does X and Y
>Upgrade skill A again
>It now does X, Y and Z
Arbitrary. Why could it not do that to begin with; further, why was X, Y, and Z functionality not expressed in more skills, increasing my toolset from the get-go and opening up potentially new combinations on the fly?
>>333159430
I really hate this when the skill needs some absurd number of points to be effective.
Becomes really grindy and repetitive because you end up just using one skill and nothing else early on.
desu if you look closely almost every JRPG does this. Pokemon has a hundred levels but most of them don't do shit except slightly increasing stats. A lot of moves are just strictly better versions of other moves.
>>333159587
They don't want you to be able to do X, Y and Z all from the get go. You need to progress further, which is why leveling up exists in the first place.
>>333158517
Perfectly fine since you can use that mechanic to scale skills differently.
>>333158517
I like the way Black Desert's skills are designed everything is % based so skills are still able to be used even if you only have rank 1 but the ones you want the most out of you get higher ranks of
There's this
>Skill A
>Upgrade it
>Receive improved version of Skill A; Skill B
>Skill B has improved damage / longevity / potency, but also has a snare / stun / root / other mechanic. Skill B also increases in resource costs to keep up with your level and compensate for the relative increase in power.
>Repeat
Or this:
>Skill A
>Upgrade it
>Factor X of Skill A increases by a given % (repeat five times until max rank)
>Do the same for Skills B, C, D. etc.
There really is no other option that won't trivialize the core game design
>>333158517
that looks exactly look old wow talent tree
>>333158517
>increases damage dealt by %
>reduces mana cost by %
>reduces damage taken by %
fuck off with this bullshit. if this is all you can think of for perk trees your game shouldnt have them.
when those talent trees appeared I fell in love with them, then lol ripped off them and they are still cool
I suppose, actually now I think about it, that we can have talent choices that don't directly affect skills, but the player character itself and how it moves or interacts with the world (makes you heavier / lighter / faster / bigger / taller / smaller), but this doesn't apply well to MMO type games.
I like those talent trees, even if each point you place only ends up being very incremental upgrade. It gives a very nice sense of progression to move along own the tree.
>>333160375
but what if it's a perk that's like
>increase range by X and mana cost by Y
I like games that have stuff that is a good and bad thing when you pick it
>Ragnarok and ToS Mages:
>Levelling spells up not only increase spell hit dmg, but increases the number of hits
>Spell has an effective quadratic grow in power
It's fine unless it's shit like
>Rank 1 - 20%
>Rank 2 - 22%
>Rank 3 - 24%
etc
Cause that just encourages dipping 1 point into as many things as possible to get the maximum value for your points.
>>333160743
Drawbacks are interesting, but may be hard to balance.
My main issue with "improve skill by x%" perks is that they remove customization from perk trees, which is presumably the entire point of them in the first place. If the perks are just linear skill bonuses then there's no reason to not take them in every build.
>>333162014
>TFW your autism forces you to do this and you end up with 40 skills on your bar
>>333160743
Most of the Grim Dawn talents increase the mana cost of the spells they modify.
>blade flurry lv 1: 3 hits at 200% attack speed
>blade flurry lv 2: 5 hits at 250% attack speed
>blade flurry lv 3: 7 hits at 300% attack speed
>blade flurry lv 4: 9 hits at 350% attack speed
>blade flurry lv 5: transforms into ultimate skill "dancing blades": 15 hits at 500% attack speed, parry all incoming physical attacks for duration. you can only learn one ultimate skill at a time.
>>333162703
>Cool system like this
>Only able to max out 1 skill at a time
Triggered.
>>333158517
Skill trees are fucking retarded. Skill leveling by doing appropriate actions is much better.
>>333162014
Most talent trees get around this by requiring a certain number of points being placed in previous tiers before a new one opens.
>>333158517
It depends on game and skill tree.
KB games were ones that did it right.
>>333159795
A lot of the weaker moves have more PP than their stronger brothers (ember: 40; flamethrower: 15) which means you can use it more without refilling it. Problem is, there are pokemon centers everywhere, which boils it down to
>enter new route/cave
>fight every trainer
>refill your pp back at town
>repeat
>>333163334
Well I mean or you could just have the ranks be the same increase. 10/20/30% etc.
literally half the "skills" are "do x% more damage with weapon-type"
is this what passes for game design these days?
>>333163982
Quality game design doesn't matter for most game companies, if it sells then who gives a shit.
WoW and FFXIV is a god awful game design in a nutshell but they both still makes millions dollars per month
I love Etrian Odyssey but the diminishing returns on almost all of it's skills is obscene
There will be skills that go up to rank 10 that become absolutely worthless by rank 3
>>333164216
...so you have to make a decision and use other skills? instead of just using one skill?
>>333158517
>Skills don't have levels
>Skills have reagents
>You can combine reagents on skills to make them different
>Even hidden behavior combinations
>Every reagent has a pro and a con so they don't ever end up being too strongIf only there was a Magicmaker MMORPG or anything else. I'd love to see Diablo + Magicmaker mechanics
>>333164827
Also, transistor
>Have Help(Cull(), Spark())
>Have Cull() + Ping()
>Me and Dogs dashing through the battlefield slashing shit up
Why did it have to be so short.
>>333164136
Both those games are notorious offenders of using skinner boxes.
>>333164610
that's not really it
It's more like you have a skill in the spell-casting class that passively increases all magic damage
Rank 1 increases it by 5%
Rank 2 increases that to 10%
Rank 3 increases that to 13%
Rank 4 increases that to 14%
And none of this is told to you in game. It's deceptive and silly that something like that will go up 10 ranks when it will accomplish almost nothing for more than half of them.
>game has skill tree
>tons of levels, lots of skill points to dole out
>very gear dependent
>can't respec
Why the fuck would have a skill tree and not allow respeccing, fuck those games I'm not leveling another character just to try something out.
>>333158517
Depends, it's better than only getting 1 point every 10 levels.
>>333166181
How about only getting one level and one skill point in the time span it would take to level ten times?
>>333162014
diablo 2 does that
>>333165789
this
i remember getting playing ragnarok and learning that i should not had dumped 30 stat points in luck for my lvl 50 wizard
It broke my heart
>>333168847
Even as a kid I hated games like this because you basically had to make your build before even playing the game.
