What really killed this game in your opinion?
For me it was the trivialization of leveling through heirlooms and scaling, essentially killing leveling and the feeling of progression that made wow so addictive in the first place. The new devs are focused on the endgame alone, but gave us nothing other than some good raids. Turning it into a single player game with hub and killing professions and AH with garrisons was the final nail in the coffin, the game started turning into shit since Wotlk imo.
Can legion even save the sinking ship or is everyone gonna unsub after they're done with raids?
>>333156935
I got bored of killing diffrent colour wild boars and the endless fetch quests. It may be my own fault though as none of my freinds wanted to waste their money on it monthly.
7 years worth of shitposting on /v/ probably killed it.
Can we go an hour without a WoW thread?
>>333156935
ability pruning, quit the game after the first wod tier because of this, boring af
>>333157087
For me the rewards of doing those chores made it worth it in the end, in vanilla/Tbc even getting a small upgrade over your gear mattered and made you feel more powerful, and you actually had to be smart against mobs or get cucked by even the shittiest kobolds. I'm leveling a toon in Nost and while it's painfully slow i'm having lots of fun, leveling in full heirloom on retail WoW feels much more like a chore because there's no challenge, no upgrade, no anything to make it fun(and it's even shittier with the ability pruning). Makes you wanna spend dat dime for the level 90 istant boost.
>>333157168
here's your (you) friend.
> streamlining the game into a raid simulator
> not creating any alternative content where players would naturally group up and care about the outcomes of others.
Instead of making new casual content everyone can enjoy, they kept of nerfing current casual content to be trivial and nerfing the core stepping stone content to be casual until they got to raiding
>itemshop in an subscription MMO
>>333156935
You know i have to agree with you.
>Started right before BC
>Had a blast and played up until WOTLK
>Came back for a couple months for CATA and MOP
>Came back for WOD
Mop was the first time i wasnt enjoying myself.
Leveling now is a joke.
I have one of every tank at max level....
Garrisons were dumb, and the whole no flying thing was just ill advised.re-subbing for legion tho lol
>>333157665
So is the game financially doomed then? I don't see why people would stick to Legion after doing the raids and maybe getting dem artifacts weapons.
>>333156935
Wrath of the Lich King was objectively the peak of WoW when it came to raid design (Naxx, Ulduar, ICC) and subscriber count (double digit millions)
Everything went downhill Cata and afterwards.
But WoW was doomed to fail eventually because of its core themepark design. Leveling becomes more and more of a chore as the level cap increases, people beat content faster than it can be made, and hiring more interns to solve this problem just made the problem worse.
automated cross-realm matchmaking killed the local communities, simple as that
>>333157172
Same, but with cata
>>333157907
Me too honestly, because i want to play the new class and enjoy the new animations and effects, but i don't plan on sticking around for long.
>>333156935
growing up ,having a social life, being married and a job.
I dont have time to raid for long hours everyday or try to reach rank 14 in pvp.
I maybe play 1 or 2 hours games per day or something 0.
>>333156935
WoW could learn some lessons from FFXIV.
>Make level sync a thing so running old content is actually viable
>Make FATE quests in different zones as an incentive to group up with others for EXP or rewards sand to break up the monotony of the questing grind or waiting forever in queue for a PVE or PVP instance
>Allow the player to level multiple classes on one character and allow them to mix match certain abilities from each class to create real unique builds instead of cookie cutter specs, it also solves the problem of making dozens of alts and repeating the same starter quests over and over which gets repetitive
>Make crafting and gathering an actual minigame with progression and gameplay instead of getting the materials, pressing one button, and boom done crafting
>>333158410
>playing A realm reborn at lauch
>Barely enough quests to level your main job, leveling other jobs even more of a chore
Did they fix this?
It's not any specific change (particularly considering some designs when originally implemented "worked" even though they'd eventually end up being damning). Since there isn't any particular change that "killed" it, I'll instead point towards a paradigm shift (which also was gradual but took a giant leap forward in WotLK): Overdesign.
Everything must have a purpose. Everything must be "balanced". Everything must be intuitive. Everything must be convenient. Certainly, there are benefits to this, like tighter rotations (well, most of the time, anyway: arms warriors in TBC for example clearly weren't intended to be played around slam and swing timer but this emergent way of playing them is as involved as the spec ever got in terms of PvE DPS and the same could be said about specs like WotLK enhancement shamans that don't have any "sense" in their priority queue) but as a whole it's damning to the game.
For example, when you carefully tune the content, there simply isn't going to be anything outrageously overtuned like Defias Pillagers and Sons or Arugal or high-level mobs next a low-level areas, the kind of encounters players would ultimately come to remember with fondness. With clear quest progression and quests systematically guiding you through the entire zone, there is no sense of exploration, mystery and depth to the world. With classes performing every task ~equally well, you've removed all character and identity from the game (and instead groups needing a wide variety of classes/specs for unique things they bring, class-stacking has gotten worse than ever). When you decide this raid is the content players are "supposed" to do and then implement artificial difficulty slider so that everyone can, you've taken out identity from the content (ie. difficulty is determined by artificial difficulty slider, not by some content just happening to be notoriously difficult) and subjected even the casuals to content droughts. Etc.
The 'everyone is good at everything' class re balancing. On equal skill levels a ret paladin should never be able to out dps a mage.
The loss of community (biggest thing imho).
Opening raids to everyone. Personally I liked major battles only being seen by the best, it made them more significant. Being one of the few people to ever kill C'thun in vanilla actually felt like an achievement.
The loss on innocence. It's no longer a frontier waiting to be explored it's a set culture that will never change.
>>333158559
Yes. You get exp from fates, challenge log, hunts board, beast tribes, leves, dungeon roulettes, and sidequests in other zones besides your starter. You don't have to just quest in a quest hub to get good exp anon.
>>333156935
First expansion :
Quit as soon as all
My hard work was replaced with lvl 61 greens
Trivialization of leveling and past content. I get that they're trying to market their newer content, but that's the ONLY content in the game right now. I can't play endgame tbc, because the game's balance and level scaling shot it to hell.
Through 'progression' recently, they've been doing nothing but removing relevant content. I want to say that this started in Mists and grew worse in WoD. Cata was fine, if you had no heirlooms, you were expected to level through all the zones.
WoTLK was the pinnacle of leveing content, as the exp required to hit 60 was lowered from vanilla, but it wasn't fast enough that you experienced everything without it growing stale and grindy.
Removal of over world difficulty really strikes me as bad for the game as well. up until MoP, this wasn;t an issue.
RDF, LFR, overease of leveling, removal of community activities outside of raiding through matchmaking systems, raid difficulty setting bloat, overabundance of catchup gear, removal of class uniqueness (what separates a spriest from an affliction lock, or an arms warrior from a frost dk?)
I bought the game to play an mmoRPG, game's not an rpg anymore, it's a theme park.
>>333156935
I finished basic leveling about 8 fucking years ago, I don't think speeding it up for my alts hurt the game at all. EIGHT. YEARS. People like you seem to forget just how fucking old this game is, and how some changes have been made to appease the only people still playing the game, as opposed to people who stopped playing it. I do like the feeling of adventure from leveling, but outside of leveling my main in each new expansion, there isn't much there. I'll go play a singleplayer game if I want more of that kind of experience.
The game's not dead, it's just become more focused on what it can provide, versus what it "should" be. If you don't like that, that's fine, but the game doesn't need to pander to your archaic and esoteric notions of what is "proper" for an MMO in 2016. At this point, I've lived a full third of my life alongside this single game, and not only have I changed, but so has the market. It can't be allowed to stagnate, and it shouldn't be made to regress, there's just no good cause for it. Your nostalgia is not a proper business strategy.
Looks like cultural marxism made wow boring and flavorless with it's 'everyone is a winner' attitude, and old school elitists need to check their privilege.
Sadly your post looks like a grim vision of the future.
>>333158813
Naxx gear is equivalent to all but the best-itemized lvl 70 blues and enough to beat T4 (particularly when combined with these exceptionally itemized items, Quagmirran's Eye, tailoring sets and such like) and you're likely to keep almost the entirety of AQ40/BWL/R14 gear to level 70. Besides, there's a good amount of vanilla items that retained their usefulness even longer (for example, the first single-target threat upgrade to Thunderfury was Mallet of the Tides from T5 before nerf to TF proc and even post-nerf stayed as the best AoE-tanking weapon for warriors for the entire expansion and preferable to blue level 70 tank weapons while items like Libram of Light, Darkmoon Guard: Blue Dragon and Sapphiron shoulder enchants remained BiS for entire TBC).
Seems like a fairly natural progression to me. Or are you upset about losing T1 "epics" with such garbage itemization that "of the frozen wrath" green never mind Bloodvine set or actually good blues would have been preferable?
>>333159428
meant for
>>333158739
Making raids 'accessible.'
There used to be different endgame for people who didn't want to raid, now they funnel everyone into LFR bullshit and i'd say for the majority of new players that's where they end, instead of progressing. In WoD alone i've seen like atleast 7 guilds i've known and pugged with completely disintegrate, no new blood because all the kids are stuck in LFR.
Also despite claims to the contrary very little actually difficult Mythic content outside of just DPS race / tight numbers.
>>333156935
Cross realm zones and cross faction auction house in major cities was Blizzard basically admitting that the game is dying and they inflate their subscription numbers with chink players who spam players with RMT messages.
>>333156935
>leveling
>addictive
>in wow
end game grind or bust you scrub
LFR Killed this game. Fuck that shit.
>>333156935
leveling was shit to begin with
>>333160153
Even Blizzard agrees leveling is shit, that's why you can pay them $60 to skip from level 1 to 90 or if you buy legion you can skip to level 100.
1-90 leveling experience is shit, that's why you pay $60 for a level 90 now, so you can get to the current game without playing through old trash, what really needs to happen is WoW 2 so blizz can just trash all their dated shit content
>>333158739
>On equal skill levels a ret paladin should never be able to out dps a mage.
what's the point of ever bringing a ret pally then?
>>333157172
This. The ability pruning and homogenization of the classes killed it. Well, and the bot invasion in pvp but that's for me personally.
>>333160337
Fortunately it's really fast
when they took CC and changed aggro for pve dungeons like mid tbc, wotlk was just like faceroll on keyboard and wiping was literally impossible in 5mans. i remember doing SLABS in particular at the beginning of tbc and you would wipe endlessly on trash if someone forgot to recast a poly or w/e. you formed bonds with people and beating content felt like you achieved something.
that being said thats just the kind of game i enjoy as im not a casual so i cant say it killed that game as much as it killed it for me personally
in tbc my ui didnt even have action bars because i had memorized every skill vs. wotlk barely knowing what all ur moves did and just vote kicking the tank/healer if he couldnt carry the team through a wipeless 5man
>>333157907
Funny, I had a ton of fun with MoP whereas I actually quit during Cata.
I thought I'd hate MoP, I hated everything about it, but the actual experience I had while playing was really nice.
I hated Cata. It made the world ugly and fucked upThe park district crater is still on fire after 6 years. Tornadoes have been spinning for 6 years. Monsoons have been crashing for 6 years. What the fuck.[/spoiler
>>333160459
Utility.
For example a ret paladin doesn't have to contribute the same personal DPS as a fire mage to be useful. A ret paladin could boost the overall party DPS with buffs or abilities which could make up for their weaker personal DPS.
>>333156935
TBC killed it. Space alien demon protoss pylon using shaman and bloodadins and killing illidan as a random boss early in expansion and lore raping everything. Then theres flying which absolutely destroyed the game. PVP died that day. World interaction and guild building and realm rivalries died when they put the instant teleport to dungeons and cross realm parties in. Game became a fly around farming simulator and never talk to anyone or meet anyone or explore anything or fight anyone except in your little box. Sit at org/ironforge and wait for queue to pop bullshit. No more storming the fucking raid entrance and fucking over guilds trying to enter MC or Onyxias lair by fucking killing their ass for hours on end as they try to resummon people and force them to corpse hop to the entrance over and over. No more BRM piles of dead bodie corpses on the ground. Most you do is maybe kill some quest givers that respawn in couple minutes to annoy the 1 or 2 people questing. Thats not fucking pvp. And neither is the fucking garbage arena shit they put in either.
>>333157964
/thread
>>333160641
This, as well as soloing and PvP.
Not every spec have to be raid friendly. Having ret pallies and shadow priests top the dps charts constantly was an insult to mages, locks, rogues, and hunters. Sure they have their uses but the pure DPS classes should always out due the hybrids.
>Turning it into a single player game with hub and killing professions and AH with garrisons was the final nail in the coffin, the game started turning into shit since Wotlk imo.
Not sure why but the Profession gutting killed it for me. Along with Garrisons, it was like they were forcibly trying to kill the sense of community.
>>333159364
>Your nostalgia is not a proper business strategy.
This post couldn't be more ignorant. The game is dying financially properly because people unsub after doing raids, which can be fine for those who play since vanilla, but all the new players are stuck with nothing other than buying a level boost, not even kids want to play it.
>>333156935
Focus on nothing but raiding for a whole fucking expansion. Game dies. Gee go figure.
Raiding model is outdated and nobody has neither the time or patience to raid. This is coming from someone who raided Heroic/Mythic till 6.2 came out. The model is stale, Blizz killing 10 mans didn't help. Not to mention nobody has the patience to teach 20+ new people how to play the game properly. I suppose it also doesn't help that I've been playing the same game for 10+ years.
I think Wrath had the best model overall. Raids where reasonably hard with the exception of ToC. The gearing system was more effort based than RNG. I had no problems with welfare gear for entry level raiding. Dungeons where a bit too easy, but w/e they where only there as padding before raids. Good variety of daily quest to do outside of raiding and PvP was actually fun.
I hope they go back to adding new dungeons every patch + content outside of raiding and less raid bosses per tier. SoO and HFC are fucking ridiculous. Foundry and Highmaul struck the perfect balance.
Go play WoD. Literally every caster and then every melee play almost exactly the same. Spammable, DoT, button to spread DoT, procable ability, ability you hit to flatly increase your damage.
GG WoD design.
>>333161321
>Sure they have their uses but the pure DPS classes should always out due the hybrids.
and for what reason? because with a completly different spec, with completly different gear and a completly different gameplay they can do other roles?
>>333160459
Utility that no other class brings.
In TBC ret pallies brought:
1. Another blessing (unique buffs that no other class could bring, and while not unique to ret, you really didn't want to bring another holy or prot pally or buff outside raid)
2. Keeping up wisdom and light judgements on bosses (which the prot/holy paladin could technically judge but that ranged from impossible to an enormous hassle)
3. 3% raid-wide crit debuff (which prot pally could technically spec into but again, protadins didn't actually want to judge crusader and a lot of times couldn't, such as when they were offtanking some other mob)
4. Cleanse, BoF/BoP and other spells that were useful on occasion
5. Party-wide damage buff that to large extent compensated for a loss of a pure class that didn't bring such utility.
6. Diversification to the kind of loot your raid can use (you probably had an arms warrior for similar reasons but besides that, no one else could use STR-itemized 2-handers for example and while your #3-10 casters were waiting for Tempest of Chaos, ret could be relatively speaking much more geared with items like Cataclysm's Edge).
Conversely, a rogue would bring:
1. Higher personal DPS and unless they had Glaives, it wasn't even that much higher
I like these threads. The more I see discussions about why WoW is dying, the less I want to return to it.
>>333160337
imo they should just make all the dps specs similar in power like in TOR, while at the sime time make the class truly unique in utility brought to group. The way they tried to balance the dps only made the game worse by cutting content, and some classes still overdps other classes despite all the efforts.
>>333161482
Pure dps had the major disadvantage of only being pure dps, the offset to that disadvantage was dominance on the charts.
I remember in Vanilla other than fury warriors pure dps topped that charts and it just felt natural.
>>333157926
>>333156935
normies and all the people who start playing in BC Wrath.
>>333161482
As much as i would love this since i love DPS and i have to force myself to heal or tank, that would just kill the game like it's hapenning in FXIV, too many dpses and not enough healer and tanks, as dps will always be the more popular spec in mmorpgs.
Dumbed down classes and no fucking content for like a year and a half. Like are you fucking kidding. It's already hilariously easy to get to max level. They literally give you a 90 for buying the game.
So you get 90. Level to 100 in 2 days. Do boring ass dungeons. Queue for raid finder for a free legendary and then wait for legion. All of which would take a fucking month max.
This is why Ffxiv is on top right now. Consistent patching and added content. I just really hate how weeaboo that game is
>>333156935
>What really killed this game in your opinion?
The community breaking up over time due to many different things over the years
>>333156935
Old age, class homogenization and dumbing it down.
>>333163645
This.
>>333162832
>>333156935
I started with MoP,leveled through the game and really enjoyed it. Do i lack the nostalgia to feel like you guys? I mean i enjoyed every part of the game and played through every exapansion and i liked them all.
>>333163516
>Ffxiv is on top
On top of shilling you mean.
>>333156935
The fact that they made it singleplayer.
18 month raid tiers and content drought
Arenas
>>333161594
None of this in itself was worth a spot in most people's eyes. I tried to get our guild leader to bring in a ret for judgment buffs because JoL alone meant my Rogue and friends would survive a rotation or two without bandaging (This was before recuperation). None of Holy Paladins bothered to Judge anything to maintain so it was a wash. GL told him to get back on his Fury warrior.
When putting people in a group the 3% damage from Sanctity Aura was nothing compared to Windfury or Agi totem. Even when it was +6% healing in Vanilla the tanks wanted Devotion or resistance aura.
When I personally made one and stuck to 5 mans in BC, the cleanse and blessings were a hard sell over another crowd control back when Repentance was a 6 second joke. I decursed, BoP'ed the healer and off taunted like a motherfucker and the spec was always a novelty for when there was nobody else around.
>Diversification to the kind of loot your raid can use (you probably had an arms warrior for similar reasons but besides that, no one else could use STR-itemized 2-handers for example
These were tank incentives for their pvp specs. Give them to the ret pally and blood reached the sky.
The fact is that everyone in WoW had utility, even pure specs like Rogues, Mages and Warriors. That was the best part of WoW. So gimping damage for utility was never a good trade.
>>333156935
>What really killed this game in your opinion?
They tried to "fix" it after Vanilla.
>>333156935
For me, it was when they took focus away from world content and exploration, and more on just raids. I get the feeling they truly think the raid scenewas what made WoW the success it is today.
>>333158410
>WoW could learn some lessons from the MMOs FFXIV shamelessly stole from
Fixed.
>>333166034
Yep, it's thanks to the vocal minority that it became the main focus. What people don't realize is that they use the raid tier excuse to justify not adding new dungeons, new daliy/questing zones and overall actual new content. Most of the raid bosses nowadays are variations of MoP bosses with almost identical mechanics. They reused a lot of the assets from SoO in WoD. HFC is really Siege reskin with a much better final boss.
>>333165461
Well, I was talking about TBC. It's no secret that "hybrid classes" besides warriors had only one "viable" spec in vanilla. If your holy pallies are too lazy to cast a single spell once (the thing about ret is that Crusader Strike refreshes judgements, wisdom is a surprisingly big DPS and light healing isn't to be underestimated), guild leaders can't into theorycrafting and the guild is more concerned about getting PvP than progression then it's not a fault of the spec but the players.
Admittedly, it's somewhat questionable if 100% min/maxed raid should bring a ret if you're Alliance (since Seal of Blood unique to blood elves was the highest DPS seal and difference to pure classes is greater as a result) or willing to buff blessings outside the raid (been there, done that, it's awful), but for Horde it's a pretty clear deal.
For people playing FFXIV, is it worth getting into? I haven't played an MMO since cata flopped, and i'm wanting to get back into one.
>>333158739
>Opening raids to everyone.
A necessary evil. They needed to justify all those resourced poured into content that only few care about, and the solution was LFR.
-Can keep making the large raids they want to make
-Recycle more content to save cost and time.
-Shareholders no longer asking why so many resources are going into content that only 5-10% even bother with (while they're relevant)
You raiders might not like that everyone can raid now, but it's preferable to the other option, which is few/no new raids.
>>333156935
Crossrealm automated group finders (for BGs, dungeons, and finally raids) killing off any sense of server community and removing everything that encouraged seeking out and befriending people on your server to accomplish things.
Abandoning 5 man dungeon content as the casual endgame in favor of multi-tiered raid difficulties ranging from braindead retard LFR to mythic.
Redesigning questing and leveling to a more streamlined, quasi-singleplayer experience robbed of any possible challenge and focusing on cinematic storytelling to build up an expansion's overarching storyline rather than building the story and atmosphere of each zone separately for a varied world with several quests and elite mob camps that encouraged grouping up with other nearby players.
Luckily I can go to a private server and still get enjoyment from these things whenever I get the itch again, but I'd really like to see a new MMO that can deliver on these points.
>>333167064
At release Rift had the potential to beat WoW, but I guess it never caught on. I can't speak to endgame but the leveling was great.
The graphics didn't age very well though.
>>333167020
>They needed to justify all those resourced poured into content that only few care about, and the solution was LFR.
I don't see what was so bad about TBC's endgame model. Heroic dungeons were a great endgame for casuals, giving you enough challenging shit to do on a daily basis to keep you interested along with a couple of upgrades available from rep vendors and crafting with a very easy intro raid tier that practically everyone saw, and when we got the harder shit that only the top % of players could clear casuals still got a new dungeon and a great new questing hub.
The only thing that really sucked at the time was pacing with things like all the heroic keys locked behind rep vendors and time between content tiers. If they had just tried to stick to that model and made 5 mans a challenge in Wrath instead of completely faceroll it would've been fantastic.
>>333167165
>Rift
>Great
It was copy paste WoW with a few new gimmicks. I tried to like it but got bored after hitting level 10. Warhammer Online had decent gameplay and leveling but no end game. Age of Conan was a fucking joke. Star Wars Galaxies was a pretty good MMO till they fucking butchered it with the Wookie expansion. TERA was only good to make slutty character and play the intro world. FFXI was meh, I was already too invested in BC to play a more tedious version of the same game. The Old Republic, probably the only other MMO I've played a reasonable amount. Only good thing about it is playing through the story mode once per class. FFXIV fun classes, decent leveling but is too conservative with it's approach to MMO's. Would have been all over FFXIV if it had come out before MoP.
>>333156935
Maybe there wasn't some magical big fuckup that turned this game to shit overnight, Maybe it's a buildup of several bad decisions over a longer span of time.
>>333157964
Naxx wasn't even Wrath and the Wrath version of it was a suoer undertuned piece of trash that even dumpater guilds were clearing the first week
Changing the leveling, the skills, and speccing i think did more damage than they expected. But ill admit the gnome, worg, and panda intro zones are infinitely more interestig than the other races.
>>333167774
Wrath Naxx was just there to say they had a raid at launch. They clearly weren't ready to launch Wrath when they did. Which was also the case with BC. They did a better job of releasing on-launch raids after Wrath. Despite how shit Cata and WoD are.
>>333167020
There is a more elegant solution than artificial difficulty slider: nerfing (preferably indirectly, by buffing classes or introducing new gearing options, which lets the players feel better about themselves than doing content that was deliberately gutted to be doable by everyone) the content after it has become obsolete from progression raiding perspective.
As the expansion progresses, more and more players are able to bruteforce the encounters and as more and more players have completed the content, you can have more players carried despite them being oblivious to tactics, and ultimately they too will learn by example. At this point even the content that used to be the most tough can be PuGed.
All these players need is a little push to encourage them to give the content a try once they are able to beat it (lifting attunements for example is a possible way), and the solo/small party content must not be designed to be such a faceroll fest that players are conditioned to give up at the sign of the most trivial hardship.
Besides, content that only the elite can beat also has some value to low-end players. Making the world feel like much more dangerous place and having something to look forward to for starters. This of course requires there to be some things to do besides raiding, like vanilla and TBC had. Content drought that affects everyone is a result of cancerous designs of neo-WoW, hardly something inevitable.
1.) dungeon/raid finder killing any and all social elements
2.) arena causing the death of any uniqueness the classes had
>>333167585
>was already too invested in BC to play ffxi
You know FFXI came out like a year before wow, and like 2.5 years before BC right?
The everybody wins shit. Giving people recolors of raid gear, softening the difficulty of dungeons soon after release, giving people ways to get to aspects of the games without traveling or having to face any danger at all. They basically trivialized everything in the game and made it into a theme park. Now they're adding iPhone-game tier single player minigames and shit you have to pay real money for. How many store-only mounts are there now?
>>333157974
Agreed with this, it completely killed any sense of server community, I remember in early Wrath you KNEW people on your server and there was that one guy that everyone hated and always shat on in trade chat, these days I couldn't name a single other player on my server other than the irl friends I play withmost of whom have quit like me
>>333168902
Yeah, should clarify I only heard about it from a friend when I had already been playing WoW for years and was raiding full time in BC. I played it to indulge him, the world was pretty cool but I never got addicted to the gameplay.
>>333166957
Go play the trial and play on a server called Exodus, really friendly and helpful.
I like the game but some people don't like it, overall only you can decide whether it's good or not.
I've lost all faith in blizzard when it comes to WoW.
And really everyone else should be in the same boat. They can't design the game for shit anymore and clearly are working harder to create content for their smaller/newer games than their old and busted MMO from a decade ago.
>>333166762
>Well, I was talking about TBC.
So was I. I only mentioned vanilla for one variation of an ability.
>If your holy pallies are too lazy to cast a single spell once
That involved them walking within 10 clicks of the raid boss when all their raid heals have cast times was kind of a show stopper.
You could do all that extra coordination to support one spec or you could bring in an extra Windfury totem and Bloodlust. Whether the extra Judgment range in Wrath/Cata made it viable I'll probably never know.
>guild is more concerned about getting PvP than progression then it's not a fault of the spec but the players.
Easy for a couch general to say. People played for fun and keeping the tanks happy is priority #1 in a guild, even when they're your best buds.
>Admittedly, it's somewhat questionable if 100% min/maxed raid should bring a ret if you're Alliance (since Seal of Blood unique to blood elves was the highest DPS seal and difference to pure classes is greater as a result)
As you demonstrate here the significantly lower damage (especially melee damage) for utility was pretty much not happening except for the highest bleeding edge guilds where ~+1.5% total damage was worth it. Something that only existed for the top 1% needed all the help it got.
Streamlining and casualization
>everything is max level, there is literally 0 value in doing an instance while leveling in current expansion content
>boosts further push everything to max level
>all there is at max level is faceroll dungeons, faceroll dailies and raids
>raids are made faceroll so everybody can feel like a winner
>also dont even need to group in an MMO, game does it for you
>>333156935
Wait, they added scaling? So those kobolds I killed at level 8 will still put up a fight when I'm level 80? Seriously?
>>333169079
Whats the solution?
One, monolithic giant server, hosting millions between a hundred capital city's?
I mean, xrealm queuing solved a real issue of empty servers.
>>333168967
I see no reason with store mounts and cosmetic gear. Like, at all. I cant see one, single, thing wrong with it.
You are correct though, there needs to be a much higher term of entry into raids. I loved the naxx attument, and attument in general. People that were in the raid wanted to be.
However, i can see the devs issue too, spending a lot of time and energy on content 10% of the people see is kind of heartbreaking for them.
For everyone ITT, i think there is a solution to every problem here, it just needs a new canvas.
Either WoW 2 or something else.
Talent changes
PvP getting worse and worse
Ability pruning
Itemization being even more thoughtless than before
Crossrealm zones
All the attention to the cash shop garbage
I didnt even care about the dungeon finder or raid finder since I took a blind eye to pve 99% of the time.
Ease of access to every single aspect of the game.
>>333169523
>I cant see anything wrong with store shit in a game with a sub
end yourself now
Ensuring literally nothing means anything before max level newest raid
Dungeon & raid finder
Gearscore/ilvl which goes hand-in-hand with difficulty levels that are just a toggle switch. Difficulty levels in raids have provided this massive, massive stat bloat with every tier. It's at the point now where just 10 ilvl difference is about 20% DPS increase. The result is raid leaders demanding better gear requirements to join a raid than the instance actually drops from 80% of the bosses.
When I quit I needed 700 ilvl to run HFC normal. IIRC every boss but Archimonde and Mannoroth drop 690 to 695. I couldn't even get into mythic 5 mans without 700 at least. These are 5mans that are tuned for ~680 ilvl.
Fuck this game.
>>333170007
>every boss but archimonde drop 690 to 695
Upper floor starts to drop 700, and there was the huge bloat from the legendary ring that boosted everyones ilvl, and probably valor upgrades by the time people were actually doing mythic which meant that Archi dropped as high as 721 in reality
If you couldnt make 700 you were just fucking shit at the game
>>333169523
>I see no reason with store mounts and cosmetic gear. Like, at all. I cant see one, single, thing wrong with it
Because I'm paying an already overpriced $15 a month on top of a $50 expansion and I expect that to grant me access to all the game has to offer.
The other problem is that they specifically make nice looking mounts for the store whilst making everything look shit in the base game. Just look at WoD where everything is a brown/grey/blue recolour of mobs whereas the store mounts are unique.
>>333169978
>end yourself now
Negative. If people want to buy shinys that have zero effect on gameplay, why not? That market is consumer driven. If nobody buys the mounts, they will stop selling them. People are buying them therefore people want them therefore its ok.
>>333170007
>When I quit I needed 700 ilvl to run HFC normal. IIRC every boss but Archimonde and Mannoroth drop 690 to 695. I couldn't even get into mythic 5 mans without 700 at least.
git gud
>>333157907
No flying was the only redeeming aspect of the steaming pile of shit that was WoD. Flying is terrible for the game and destroys the community of a server instantly.
Luckily there wasn't much to do in Draenor and there were so many flightpoints it hardly mattered.
>>333170258
>Because I'm paying an already overpriced $15 a month on top of a $50 expansion and I expect that to grant me access to all the game has to offer.
Why pay it if you think its overpriced?
Furthermore, see >>333170262
People are buying the mounts. People want the mounts and are willing to part ways with money to get it. The mounts have zero effect on gameplay at all.
Why do you care?
>>333156935
Dungeon Finder
>>333170395
ghostcrawler may not have been the best, but he at least fucking understood what an MMO was
>all these fucking retards who dont even play the game claim it's dead while the ones still playing it can't even get 700 ilevel and isn't even 13/13m
lel, just lel. You're opinions are worthless
When the world, player community, and sense of class uniqueness took a backseat to convenience...WoW was essentially dead.
Anyone who played past early Wrath didn't play real World of Warcraft.
>>333170612
>raiding mythic while its still hardlocked to 20 man
no
fucking
thanks
>>333170612
Yeah let me just eat shit for a month just so I can tell you it's shit
>>333170773
you're just bad anon, admit it. Or you played vanilla barely as a kid and claim it wow now is dead, you were probably shit in vanilla too
>>333170869
I was in the best guild on the realm in MoP and the entire guild quit a couple of weeks after WoD's release when they realized just how shit it was
>>333170612
>mythic
I remember when raids came in "Hard" and "Reserved for top guilds". That's how it should be, that's how it should have stayed.
>>333170920
proof that you're casuals and bad
>>333170869
nah ur shit m8 post your main armory unless I see full BiS with over 500 M Arch kills your opinion is worthless : ^ )
>>333171079
I got you senpai
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Rudi/advanced
It's still fun. It just has adapted to modern times for better or for worse.
MoP killed the game
>>333156935
it was about journey not the destination now there is no journey
>>333156935
Adding joke races like pandaren to pander (no pun) to morbidly obese players
>>333171079
that's a fallacy, anon. I never said that I had over 500 m archi kills, I said you have no right to complain unless you've actually finished the game. I entered this thread and immediately I see some fucking casual retard complaining that "BAAWWW I HAVE ONLY 700 ILEVEL I CAN'T GET INTO A PUG!!! :((( WOW SUXX"
git
fucking
gud
>>333171269
>if you dont want to repeat the same raid multiple times while carrying 10 people because Blizzard removed the good raid size you cant complain about the massive flaws it has that have nothing to do with mythic raiding
why tho
I wonder how many of you faggots even know what LFG means
so....when is the porn going to start being posted?
Streamlining.
No reason to interact with the community on your server because you got insta xrealm BG/Dungeon queues.
Quests all tuned down to solo activity and tunnelled heavily down a single progression route.
Classes, now its just 'tank' 'healer' 'melee dps' 'ranged dps'. Why does a Warlock play like a Hunter?
End game progression, now instead of doing dungeons to do raids to do another raid to do the next raid you can skip all that to the latest tier.
Instaport everywhere, why even have a world, the games just a lobby.
Mostly though, Vanilla players left, I remember having a green item whist killing Nef, I remember wearing half a green set even for some bosses in AQ because you needed nature resist, but the Wrath players would never be able to handle that because they were brought up on free purples and gearscore. The game was about teaming up with players to achieve goals.
>>333170007
>When I quit I needed 700 ilvl to run HFC normal. IIRC every boss but Archimonde and Mannoroth drop 690 to 695. I couldn't even get into mythic 5 mans without 700 at least. These are 5mans that are tuned for ~680 ilvl.
This so much it hurts. I have a 720 ilvl on my main. Try to run some 5 man mythics on my mage alt for shits n' giggles. Can't get in because my item level is at 690. Had to fucking pad my gear score with shitty PVP blues so these fucking retards would let me in. Best part is, I get in. The group lead is of course bellow the threshold he himself set. The rest of the group is at around 715 and are playing like they are on auto-pilot. Dying to dumb shit and complaining about everything. Nobody bats an eye at my gear, still manage to pull off more dps in my shitty pvp gear than the hunter decked out in heroic/mythic gear.
Honestly, nothing triggers me more in that game than people who not only want to get carried but shamelessly complain about the people caring them not having full BiS.
>>333171146
I love this shit. I played WoW casually and seeing armories like this remind me that I'm not too far gone.
>>333171641
take off your rose tinted goggles, grandpa
>>333158559
You level up your first Job with the main scenario quests.
You level up the other Jobs with the hunting log + Daily roulettes + Fates
>>333171658
Take the shittiest people on the planet. Make them angry virgins. Now put them all in a video game. Now give them power over your ability to play the game. This is WoW LFG.
>What really killed this game in your opinion?
Time.
>>333171772
>Im shit at the game
nice blog reddit now fuck off
>>333171894
when will Homushit kill herself?
Let's not forget WoW looks like shit compared to modern MMOs
>>333171146
>Game has no fucking content so let me just do the same raid for 30+ weeks
>>333170395
>based
>was part of the problem that produced most garbage
>>333172006
Ahhhh, I'm shit at a video game my feelings are in pain TERRIBLE PAIN.
>>333156935
It was when it looked cartoony, had a subscription fee, and Guild Wars was launching at around the same time and had neither of those plus the gameplay was better.
>>333170389
>muh flying killed the community meme
This is fucking lie was spread and gobbled up by blizz shills during WoD to justify Blizzard jewing out on world design.
Flight didn't kill the community, matchmaking did. Of course you would know this if you played BC. Lots of world pvp on my old server Mannoroth all the time in every zone in outlands. If it wasn't people fighting over the stupid Netherwing eggs in Shadowmoon. It was some high level fag ganking lowbies in Hellfire which spurred an epic 40 man raid between factions.
The only people that want flying gone are people that never played the game when flying wasn't even a thing. It was utter shit. I still remember the nightmare that was farming Argent of Dawn rep in Eastern/Western Plaguelands in Vanilla or trying to level through Stranglethorn as horde. Non-stop ganking, impossible to get away at times due to server imbalance. Ridiculously OP classes like Shaman/Hunter/Rogue 1-shotting everybody. No fucking thank you. Been there, done that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE_KzAEBIVc
>>333172059
and yet all of them are dead and irrelevant while wow remains
>>333172071
But that's how you know he's good. He can run the same content for over a year!
>>333171404
>let's fuck guys
right?
>>333166957
Yes if you are not expecting a 1:1 wow clone with the same gameplay and metagame. Not even the PVE follows the same system and that's what makes cry most of the wowfugees. Don't expect 1 hour of clearing a path to a boss and then another hour of clearing another path until the next boss. Also don't expect having 10 characters. You have 1 character with all the possible jobs. I'm tired of reading the "but you can't have alters, that's retarded".
homogenization of classes and races.
removing class and race quests
streamlining quests
flying mounts
raid finder
>>333166957
Literally just try the trial. Don't let the shills in here completely sell you on it because from experience and from talking to others you will either like it or hate it. There's just massive amounts of FFXIV shilling here.
>>333172309
All of them combined did certainly snatch a lot of subscriptions from WoW. There's just not this one MMO that dominates the market like WoW used to.
>>333156935
>What really killed this game in your opinion?
abandoning the multiplayer part.
streamlining everything for a singleplayer experience.
>no more group quests
now there is zero reason to group up while leveling
>dungeon finder exists
now there is zero reason to group up for dungeons
>raid finder exists
now there is zero reason to group up for raids
people largely take the path of least resistance.
making that path long, tedious and multiplayer is what made MMOs enjoyable.
making that path short, boring and singleplayer killed MMOs.
>>333172301
>lots of world pvp
yea outside of Kara and on the Sunwell island where people were fucking grounded
>netherwing eggs
where you have to dismount
>ganking lowbies
where they have to be on the ground
face it retard, when everybody is airborne you arent going to find pvp. The only chances are where people have to land like summoning stones...wait sorry dungeon queues
>>333172627
FFXIV is literally the only sub only MMO on the market that hasn't gone F2P yet after being on the market for 3 years, already got one expansion, and the next one is due next year. It's safe to assume that it's doing very well.
FFXI still hasn't gone F2P yet or done gametime tokens either and that's been up longer than WoW has too.
1) it's not dead
LFD/LFR probably caused the most damage, followed by Content Drought and Endgame Progression (nothing matters aside the newest raid)
LFD/LFR kills all the forced interaction that existed before, making people make less friends.
Content droughts make people quit, EXCEPT those who have friends, because you end up going along with them to do stuff, even if you already have done it.
And Endgame Progression because, if only the latest raid matters, there's absolutely no reason to go back to older ones. So you won't go back, even if you have friends, because they don't need it too. Back before this was a thing, you would help your bros get gear in stuff that was really easy for you but it was a lot of fun because you were with them doing that. And that's the MMO experience, Multiplayer Interaction between people must be paramount, not something extra.
>>333170389
>flying destroys the community of a server
lolwhat
the only thing that destroyed the community was lfd/lfr/crz, not flying
flying only makes getting to places easier, literally the only downside community wise is less world pvp, but they managed to fuck that up too by making the main city on a fucking island, and making garrisons instanced
>>333170396
Because they are literally developing mounts that would be rewards in game and putting them in the Store. I'm paying already for those to be made in my subscription.
I'm not against putting special mounts and expansion deluxe release mounts there, but when you see something there that's literally exactly what you would expect to win in-game - that's when things are wrong
>>333172762
if there's literally no reason to be on the ground, there's also no reason to need to be having world pvp there anyway
After playing it for years it can get pretty boring
>>333172762
the most world pvp i had was in mop, in the central zone (don't remember the name) with people doing dailies
>>333172638
>>dungeon finder exists
>now there is zero reason to group up for dungeons
>>raid finder exists
>now there is zero reason to group up for raids
so fucking clueless holy shit
protip, the only time you queue up for a dungeon is once a day for valor points, and valor points in LFR that resets every week.
Queuing up for dungeons and raids is not the fucking same as doing the content
this is how I know none of you know what you're talking about
>>333167020
>which is few/no new raids.
How many raids did WoD have?
>>333173046
>not the timeless isle
its like you didnt even fucking play Mists, it was a bloodbath
>>333172959
The reason for world pvp is just to fight you fucking mong, you dont need to fight over a node to gank somebody
>>333171152
>Adapted to modern times
>It still looks like an upscaled DreamCast game
>>333172638
>now there is zero reason to group up for dungeons
>now there is zero reason to group up for raids
These are blatant lies. There are "mythic" dungeons which are only accessible via real entrance and you need to gather people for them and actually travel across the continent.
Raiding right now is bigger than ever, I mean real rading starting at least with normal mode. And you still need to find shitton of people and go to the raid entrance yourself.
>>333173157
3
>>333173329
>flex
>real raiding
pfft
>>333172762
>tries to refute my points by stating that you had to fight on the ground.
No fucking shit dumbass, there's no flying combat. Except for maybe druids. My point is that flying, in zones that had it; didn't stop people from doing world PvP.
>>333172959
>Because they are literally developing mounts that would be rewards in game and putting them in the Store.
Except pretty much all of the mounts dont fit the aesthetic or are unique models.
And again, its market driven. The people are buying it. Thus, the people want it. Thus, its worthy to be in the game.
>>333173549
No, what stopped people was force dismounting- incompatibility with flying
areas without flying like the Isle had PvP fucking everywhere. Areas like netherwing ledge had PvP in the cave and maybe if 2 people found the same egg
>>333173469
Whatever. Mythic raiding is also bigger than ever (compare it to wrath HM numbers).
>Leveling was good
LEVELING WAS NEVER GOOD.
For fucks sake.
The whole point of this game is to do end game content, leveling in vanilla was a fucking chore.
>>333173675
don't try, they'll just scream at you about how vanilla was so much better
>>333173675
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNFWhCw8dg
From the tanking god himself
>>333173329
>Raiding right now is bigger than ever
no expac has ever had as little raid content as wod, and subs have never been lower than right now
raiding is literally smaller than it has ever been you fuckwad
>people playing the same game for 12 years
I can play a really good game for maybe 2. MAYBE. That's like pushing it to the extreme. How WoW players stomach the same game for over a decade is beyond me. Must have something to do with mental illness and not wanting things to ever change which is probably why they bitch about every little change made to the game.
Oh well. Going to go back to ESO. At least on there I can feel safe from blizzards bi-polar balancing act every expansion.No I am not memeing I really am playing ESO because it's like playing elder scrolls with other people and that's like all I ever wanted in those boring ass single player games. It's not amazing but it's also not old and busted like WoW. Dang this spoiler got really long my bad boys just wanted to shill this game out to you cause it's better than WoW
>>333173675
>leveling was a chore
sorry for your ADD, maybe you should have tried to enjoy it more
>its muh endgame
that wasnt true before TBC
The only thing difficult about mythic raiding is finding 19 other people who have a similar average item level as you and share the same raid schedule too.
The fights themselves are easy as fuck with all the addons people have at their disposal these days and all it really matters is doing Simon says mechanics with 4-5 button rotations.
>>333173862
sick blogpost, where can I unsubscribe?
>>333173880
>>333173751
So fucking predictable.
>>333173675
>The whole point of this game is to do end game content,
And that's why FFXIV is better than WoW.
>>333173859
Which says a lot about how bad WoD is since, that's all there is to do at end game.
>>333174045
>say something retarded
>"I bet somebody will tell you that youre wrong!"
>>333173216
>>not the timeless isle
>its like you didnt even fucking play Mists, it was a bloodbath
i quit before that
>>333174143
How much did it cost to get those rose tinted goggles bolted to your head?
They didn't keep up with the times. The lack of cute anime characters is inexcusable nowadays.
>>333174314
>n-nostalgia
the only argument a drone has
>>333174406
now post a cute one like Suzuha
>>333173862
>I can play a really good game for maybe 2. MAYBE. That's like pushing it to the extreme. How WoW players stomach the same game for over a decade is beyond me.
Actually getting enjoyment from playing the game helps.
I now await petty criticism and insults towards my person for enjoying a game that others don't.
>>333156935
What really killed the game for me was Gearscore. That shit was pure cancer and now that shit is actually apart of the game now called item levels.
>>333156935
The failure to focus on community.
With flying, smaller raids, matchmaking for dungeons etc., there became less and less reason to actually interact with other players.
I agree that garrisons were the final nail in the coffin though. I mean, small instanced zones where you can do literally everything you'd need to in the endgame? It completely shattered any chance of creating a community again.
>que for dungeons from anywhere
>que for pvp from anywhere
that was the first 99 nails in the coffin
>instant max level
the final nail
>>333174480
Fuck you for enjoying a game I don't currently play. I am personally triggered and you won't like me when I'm triggered. The fact that you're allowed to even speak on the internet without having to get a license disgusts me. I have called the police and supplied them with your IP address. I hope during your time in max security prison you think about playing games that other people don't and telling them that fact.
Jokes aside, I hope your dad makes you pull weeds for that comment.
>>333173859
Do you have troubles reading? I wasn't speaking about the amount of raiding content, but about the percentage of playerbase involved in it compared to wrath or tbc ot even cata not counting the LFR obviously. It's way higher.
>it's a "/v/ bitches about why a game they haven't played in several years isn't good currently while complaining about casuals despite being massive casuals themselves" thread
>>333174934
A lot of people came back for WoD and saw the shitshow of current WoW
fuck off drone
MOBAs are basically MMOs in condensed form. You start off weak, you get levels and gold through grinding monsters, you can communicate with other players, you buy gear with your earned gold, you kill other players in skirmishes, you fight against a boss on the map, you are now a high level and have powerful gear, you fight the enemy team until one wins and the other loses.
All of this happens in a span of 30 minutes to a hour. Unlike in a MMO where something like this takes weeks or months to achieve the same thing. On top of that, MOBAs are free while you have to pay $15 a month for WoW plus the cost of expansions.
So why even play WoW in 2016?
adding levels instead of adding content
>>333156935
Lore alternations and retcons.
Justifying everything with corruption and with people behaving full dumbass. They could've went with a lighter shade grey and gray instead of stupid shit like everyone is good but misunderstood.
The game becoming less of a challenge with every expansion. It wasn't so visible in WoTLK, but the later expansions really took the fun out of it.
Overdesign to the point of being ridiculous.
Not even being capable of returning to the times when it was actually fun.
And that's still not all.
>>333172301
I certainly didn't experience "epic 40 man raid battles sparked by lowbie ganking" or anything of that sort and I believe that by TBC the community had evolved such that they didn't care about "fucking around" and instead world PvP was a result of grounded players of opposite factions being thrown together.
Then again, I would also argue that flying within TBC context barely had a dent in this. I'm not in mood for rewriting my argument so I'm posting a screencap of an earlier post instead.
>>333156935
Nothing. The game is still fun and solid.I outgrew it though.
>>333175154
I guess I just enjoy being powerful for more than pathetic 15 minutes of average dota late game phase. I like being the glorious nerd in best gear and shiny xmog who stands all day in the capital city while baiting for inspects from random plebs.
>>333156935
sub costs killed it for me, always felt I had to get my moneys worth. Had my days planned around the daily routine in WoW.
Netflix costs less monthly and has more content.
>>333175438
>I like being the glorious nerd in best gear and shiny xmog who stands all day in the capital city while baiting for inspects from random plebs.
I do the same thing in FFXIV
and besides, what killed warlords was majorly garrisons, not anything that afflicted previous expansions, since even with the other problems, the game was a lot better
>>333173068
but LFD/LFR and the lack of other casual content killed the early experience
while you would before, aside the friends you made leveling, have to make some others on your server if you wanted to run dungeons or raids - even if you didn't want to be cutting edge, even if you just wanted to enter them and see what was inside
>>333173216
my reason to fight is because someone attacked me
world pvp is not nearly balanced for me to be willing to engage on that bullshit, specially with some classes being able to open up on you and kill you in less than 5 gcds if you're not fully pvp geared
And I'm not against flying-restricted zones, I'm against literally being unable to fly everywhere. I'm forced to stay at a very slow pace (210%land vs 420%flying) and I'm also forced to stop to fight every fucking mob on my way, which is extremely frustrating to do.
>>333173610
In Warlords they launched a few mounts, most OK, but they launched two that are literally the mounts of two in-game factions. And what you win for those factions? Fucking wolves/boars. Literally the same models that you win everywhere else, but recolored.
And yes, it's market driven. Hell, I bought two or three of these mounts. Yet I will never agree with them doing that shit, specially with stuff that you can clearly see that it's not an extra or something kinda unrelated like the dozen other mounts they introduced via cash before. I bought the game, the expansions and I pay a subscription for this shit, I think I can at least expect that they wouldn't pull off such bullshit
>>333174889
"Normal >" has more people than before? From where are you pulling this from?
>>333175975
>I have to stop at hostile enemies in an RPG
wowzer what a struggle
>>333175775
It's even better in that game because when someone inspects you, their character physically turns their head to look at your character.
>>333156935
>New expansion gets released
>Literally none of the shit you did before matters
>>333176113
>I have to stop to deal with shit that I can oneshot
quite a struggle desu
>>333175975
>From where are you pulling this from?
From blizzard I guess? A couple xpacs ago they stated that only 1% of players do raids. Now it's obviously more than that.
>>333156935
Carrot on a stick progression and no emergent gameplay
>>333176304
then take the road you fucking mong, even a loadscreen tip explains the purpose of roads
>>333173846
>Kungen
>Tanking god
Lmao. Kungen has always been a garbage player. His knowledge of classes, and theorycrafting strategies for encounters are subpar. Kungen was only successful because he had the right attitude and enough free time, and back when this game was simpler, time and perseverance was everything you needed.
He wouldn't even get in a top 200 guild by today's standards.
>>333170181
>make 700 is easy
>you just need 3 crafted pieces upgraded to at least level 5-6
>rest of slots full of empowered baleful
>at least 75% of items upgraded at least once w/ valour before you can get into your typical raid
you are fucking stupid
>>333176658
yes how is that not easy?
>725 crafted 735 ring and 705 everything else without even killing a raid boss
easy, stop being shit
>>333175975
>but LFD/LFR and the lack of other casual content killed the early experience
I still can't see how exactly the existence of demo mode for content (read LFR/LFD) hurts someone. Would it be better if flex was completely ruined by a clueless mob of shitters who don't even bother watching boss guides? As of now they can at least learn something from LFR.
>>333169079
I'll never forget you Slippers-Ner'Zhul. We all loved and hated your shitty trade chat jokes and it just isn't the same without you.
>>333156935
>What really killed this game in your opinion?
The lack of any fucking updates
>Paying monthly for an entire year without any new content
Only the worst kind of faggots didn't jump ship.
>>333167774
It was still fun, so fuck off
>>333176658
Or you could just farm honor points to buy that sweet 700 ilvl pvp gear with optimized stats.
>>333157974
>caring about an irrelevant part of the game
good thing the faggots like you are leaving, maybe this game will actually be fun again
>>333176781
how the fuck are you getting valor without raiding or mythic 5s?
>735 ring w/ no raiding
aye, just give me 3 months and 200k apexis pls
>>333176534
>jelly shitter
>>333177102
>LFR
>raiding
The introduction of all the cross-server nonsense.
The only way to get a sense of community anymore is to play on private servers.
I wish they did server merges instead of this crap, but muh server pride.
>>333177102
>Daily Heroic Dungeon
>The weekly events
>>333174406
this
Cat girls in particular are needed
>>333170612
>all these fucking retards who can't even follow DBM instructions to move, dodge and use CD's at the proper time
>>333177171
>M-MUH COMMUNITY ;____;
you faggots are insufferable and just blatantly fucking wrong, since private servers have ridiculously low player retention.
>>333177575
they still have better community than retail fucboi
>>333177764
You're right, a community of 5 people is generally better than a community of a thousand, but I'd still prefer the thousand, because the community of 5 people are fucking cancerous circlejerking idiots.
>>333178873
5 retards vs 1000 retards
-Focus on raiding only instead of more open world shit like we had in vanilla
-shitty themed raids with orcs, pandas, and green shit for 3 years
-pvp neglect
-stopped giving fucks about the lore midway through WoTLK
-made professions meaningless
The only thing that they have improved is new expansion leveling and art
Legion seems to have it right having played some of the classes and gone through the leveling process. The raids are looking good too as well as the lore, but despite all of this I am not hyped since I know they will disappoint me again
>>333179124
With the 5 retards you get to know them and their retardation more intimately. I'd rather not.
>>333177095
Found the PvE hero
Even WoTLK kept me hooked since PvP was still fun
I havent even done a bg in WoD and world pvp doesnt exist anymore
>>333179496
Hang on
What?
If I were a pvefag, I'd be for more community, not against. Are you retarded?
What's so bad about heirlooms? Leveling has always been the worst part of WoW.
>monotonous and boring leveling
>the quests are garbage and literally the worst MMOs have to offer
>the dungeons are boring and mindless
>leveling teaches you nothing about how to actually play
The majority of the content has always focused on endgame raids. Why shouldn't leveling be sped up to reach the decent point of the game? Do you faggots really enjoy killing boars for 10 boar tusks? Does it make you feel like you're really on a grand adventure?
>>333179849
In expansions past there were things to do besides raiding. Raiding is fun but if you place all emphasis on end game raids your game turns to shit when the raids themselves suck or last for a year
No sense of community on your server. You don't even need to read people's names, you won't see them again.
Hyper-focus on balance to the detriment of class individuality. Each class only has maybe a couple spells at most that give them something unique like portals or healthstones etc. And those aren't that important. Combat is grossly similar across all classes/specs.
Questing was actually better in classic save for having too few quests in some level ranges. You weren't handheld to each new hub. You had to find those hubs across a ton of zones and it gave a sense of mastery over the world as you did as well as enhanced the view of the world since you utilized so many zones.
Hyper-focus on efficiency. Players don't want to do anything that doesn't directly progress their character. Exploration or World PVP is now a sidetrack.
Too much porting of your character via the que system. You should have to assemble a group from your guild or server and actually go to the entrance of a dungeon. Fewer dungeon runs, more meaningful experience.
Theres more but I've gotta take a dump.
>>333156935
cross ream bullshit
>>333167658
Agreed. I feel like the old designers and the new generations of them had different views in mind and instead on building on the old system the new designers kept trying to rework things fucking up the old system and the the system.
So they should of just kept going with the old system of gameplay and adding to it instead of trying to improve it with many different visions of improvement.
pic unrelated
>>333156935
almost everything in wotlk.
I agree with this guy >>333182197 except for the questing part.
CRZ and the automatic dungeon teleports kinda ruined it. What would be nice is if they got rid of CRZ (they wont) and got rid of LFG/LFR but left in the group finding tool they released in WoD (the one that lets you set up groups for specific events and what not).
Leave the auto TP for PVP and go ahead and leave in CRZ for it as well. Make rated arenas and RBGs non CRZ.
Stop with the ability pruning, let each class do their own thing. They finally decided that 10 and 25 man were bad ideas and made 20 man the new standard for mythic raiding, so you should feasibly have at least one of each class, so there is no reason for homogenization. Last I heard, besides resource builders and spenders, each class is basically going to have a few abilities to manage based on what they pic for their talents, and those are going to be CDs rather than rotation shit. It sounds a lot like D3 the MMO.
>>333158730
This
>>333170007
>>333171658
>>333171890
>Gearscore
thats what you get for wanting to play in pick-up groups
there literally is no other way. you either only invite people that you personally know to be good, or you accept randoms based on gearscore.
of course you could just join a guild and leave all this bullshit behind in favor of a stable raid schedule with people you know. you know, how an mmo is intended to be played.
>>333170007
well granted you could get 700 ilvl gear from PvP it is pretty dumb
also, for those complaining about people not inviting you to groups:
Make your own
its my same advice for people who complain on /nosg/ about someone reserving loot
>>333173862
>calls wow players mentally ill
>plays ESO
I R O N Y
R
O
N
Y
and most of us play when a new expac comes out or when a new patch is released. No one except the true addicts play 100% of the time
>there are people that wouldn't impregnate a Pandaren
>minigamers
git out pvpoops
the fact that Blizzard acts like having a year long content drought in a subscription based MMO is okay
>>333183856
they're trying to use pruning to combat homogenization dumbass
>>333186803
>world of warcraft
>WARcraft
>Hey everybody les jus hold hands :DDDD
>>333186990
how does removing abilities and making them all work basically the same remove homogenization?
>>333182197
To continue some of my bullshit:
Difficulty was removed out in the non-instanced world. In classic you had to care about pulling and learned how to do it well before you got in an instance because pulling a second enemy often meant death. Right now the entire world of warcraft save for group content is stripped of any difficulty and so is also stripped of any interest.
Flying mounts resulted in everything becoming flyover country. Also, too many flight paths.
So we've established a stupidly non-threatening world that is also small thanks to stupidly easy travel. Why do this?
Say what you will about the weaknesses of the old talent trees but I don't see how the Legion version of the talent system is better. There is now a 'right answer' in most talent rows. There are single target talents in the same row as aoe talents. The tree is no longer about flavor choice, its a multiple choice quiz based on the next encounter. Thats micromanagement.
Datamining. No idea how to counter this other than Blizzard not testing shit publicly. This is now so thorough that you know every detail about the future before it happens.
>>333158410
As someone who likes XIV a lot.
>All it does is rob you of skills you unlock at higher levels, your sync'd item level still makes you stomp low level mobs the higher it gets.
>Fate grinding is more monotonous than dungeons and doesn't really promote group play outside of "spam AoEs in a group to get gold credit"
>There are cookie cutter builds with cross class skills. Everyone agrees CC skills are shit since there are four mandatory ones and two "well you can use one or the other for your fifth"
>Crafting is tedious, boring, and now gated behind excessive grind. The amount of materials and items needed to make x amount of components to make 1 item is absurd.
>>333187084
adding skills every new expansion made most classes have lots of utility, and pretty much everyone has stuns, movespeed increase, slows and all other things in their kit
pruning lets you take skills that shouldn't be in the class kit (ie Paladin and DK are supposed to be more immobile, they're removing their easy to access movespeed and turning it into long cds, kinda same thing for warlock, some classes lost fears/stuns, etc)
other skills that are being removed were mostly always on skills/1h buffs - since they were always on unless you were completely retarded, just accounting for that while balancing changes nothing
pruning is largely a meme, aside a few flavor skills
>>333187595
right now you have to take care about pulling in Tanaan if you're not overgeared - specially if you're a dps only class
>>333158410
cross class skills, while fun for a single player game, turns into madness if you want to at least try balancing a multiplayer game - specially if you're trying to constrict the power of certain classes around certain things (no reliable cc, low defensives, etc)
>>333156935
doesn't matter. it's not fun anymore. move on. spare yourself the frustration.
>be playing with my mythic guild
>am one of the officers, recruit lots of people, a handful even stood long term and became core
>be there since wotlk, slowly progressed to becoming one of the pillars
>a guy that just got here a month ago, hasn't even got raider rank whispers me saying he has something of worth to ask me
>he says he's actually the officer of a heroic raiding guild and seeing how I perform I could give him some suggestion
>think to myself I'm gonna play along and pretend I'm interested in his pitiful guild
>say sure, give him the link to a post I made after editing it and fucking up rotation and gliphs
>the day after I log on
>he immediately whispers me screaming how he got kicked from the raid for doing sub par dps all because of my post
>tough luck kiddo
>whisper the GM of his guild, tell him how he's trying to jump ship to get into mine because he thinks you're lame
>he shits himself seeing my guild's name (top 5 worldwide)
>one minute later dumbo has been kicked out of his guild
>tell this in trade chat too adding some more details here and there to make sure no decent guild will ever add him again
>GM of his old guild even gives me his house address at my request
>tell this to Adam (GM of my guild) on Vent and we laugh it off
>he asks the retard to come on vent one day and invites him to our channel
>he's basically crying at this point asking me why I put all that effort into hurting him
>reveal to him that us elite mythic raiders are hardcore about everything we do
>proceed to swat him and his family 4 fun, dog got killed
Time. People get bored and move on to the next thing. Nothing lasts forever.
>>333158040
lol what
pvp was at its strongest in cata
>>333187889
XIV's cross class system would be better if it was more than 2 classes and <10 abilities to pick from.
As a BLM I can have: Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes, Hawk's Eye, Ruin, Physick, Virus, Eye for an Eye for 5 slots. Hawk's Eye is useless because you don't use DEX, and you're always going to be ACC capped. Ruin is useless because of damage. That leaves 5 skills, who knew. I didn't even have the illusion of choice. There's simply not enough skills to pick from.
>>333156935
Time
Being 11 years old and going through 11 years worth of changes in order to maintain relevancy in the market. Had to keep changing itself to bring in more new players.
MMO's are fucking lame.
The world stopped mattering. Nothing is really a part of Azeroth - you're just in one place to the next, nothing really mattering anymore.
It's not an adventure anymore. It's a superhero farce now.
>>333159464
I'm not sure you're remembering right, everything but Naxx stuff was replaced mid-60s and even that was replaced (with a few niche exceptions like what you mentioned) after the first few 70 dungeons. Maybe I'm making that up it's been a while.
For me its mostly that the game is built on instant gratification right down to the class design.
Others have mentioned pretty much every class plays the same but for me its also how frantic every class plays. I am always pressing buttons constantly but no longer is there really any moments of glory because they've basically taken all those moments of glory and timed and balanced them perfectly to a rotation.
Everyone who played in classic on horde will remember Windfury because it was fucking awesome: You attacked a bunch and if you were a warrior you got more rage to spend which meant more damage to deal. Now-adays Windfury isn't even a fucking spell and I can't think of any of the really flashy abilities that are as cool (well maybe Bladestorm but that's about it).
>>333192020
T3 wasn't replaced until Karaish
