This is the worst 3D Zelda game.
Oh, look. It's you again.
>>333134517
Twilight princess and Majora's Mask exists...
Its sad how there's at least 6 threads on /v/ that have been posted every day for weeks. At this exact same time.
>>333135147
This thread was literally made only one other time.
>>333135147
I know, Mugi.
This is the worst Zelda game.
>>333135565
>>333134517
SS>TP>WW
Dungeons are important to me, and while TP has the best dungeons of those three SS has much better characters, overworld, and combat. WW has a bunch of cut content, eh dungeons, and I found sailing too tedious.
>>333134517
Technically Phantom Hourglass is 3D and you have to try to be worse than that.
Slightly better than Wind Waker.
>>333135565
Tp is better than ss and ww.
Mm is better than oot.
I think Tp is better than oot, and mm is better than tp.
>>333137958
>a game is better because its dark
Cool story bro.
I had fun playing Skyward. The surface world and general art direction reminded me a lot of the concept art for Zelda I. It was a bit linear at times, but it was enjoyable.Okami> Skyward > Twilight > Wind Waker
Anyone who thinks Wind Waker is anywhere lower than 3rd place in 3D Zeldas needs to be shot.
ALttP is best Zelda
WW is best 3D Zelda.
>>333138624
Nah, sea exploration is just about the only thing it really does well. Main quest is a bit of a mess.
>>333138747
It's the best main story of any of the 3D Zeldas. OoT played it too safe, TP just copied OoT and replaced time travel with a dark world, SS was absolute shit story-wise, and MM was pretty ass, too.
WW Ganondorf is the best Ganondorf.
>>333138457
>Okami
My negro.
After forcing myself to finish TP for the first time last week and starting Okami right after it really puts TP to shame.
>>333138624
Nonexistent second half but anyone who saw that 3rd dungeon twist coming is probably some faggot who read spoilers.It made up for how fucking obvious it was that Tetris was Zelda
>>333139036
>muh story
Anon was talking about the main quest i.e. the dungeons, which were shit in WW. Cut Content: The Game.
>>333139036
>story
>>333135565
I don't like TP, but you're just being a contrarian cunt if you think that it's worse than this piece of hot shit.
Anyone else prefer the 2D games over the 3D Legend of Zeldas? I remember loving the GBC games a lot. The 3D games I've played (OoT, TP, WWHD, SS) were okay but didn't grab me like the Oracle games. Also,Skyward Sword is trash. No wonder the post quality on /v/ and 4chan in general has gone down significantly in the past years when the majority of posters seem to like this piece of shit.
>>333139089
>Okamifags
Amazing how that game manages to be more overrated than literally any Zelda game.
>but muh art style
>>333139353
I liked this game, actually. It's not better than TP than any measure but I'd put it above Spirit Tracks and the Four Swords games at least.
>>333139471
I don't PREFER them but I like them. Honestly, I find them to be considerably harder than the 3D games, even later ones like ALBW and ST give me a hair more trouble than any of the 3D games. That said, I agree that the Oracles are GOAT as they're my favorite of the 2D games.
>>333139496
it's ok man, Okami is only better than TP and SS
>>333134517
>>333139517
>above Spirit Tracks
Careful, that game has a following on /v/ despite being mediocre at best
>>333139471
It's less 2D over 3D and more that the Oracles are GOAT and the 2D games usually free of Aonuma's taint since he's busy with the 3D shit.
>>333139496
>Okami
>50 hour main quest
>rewards player for exploring world and uncovering optional secrets
>unique art direction and solid story
>god-tier soundtrack
>many mini-games and side quests
You'd have to be the stupidest fucker on the planet to think TP isn't the worst 3D Zelda game.
>>333139878
>50 hour
I clocked in about 30. That's because aside from Orochi 2 and those fucking walls Okami is mostly free from the filler bullshit that plagues modern Zelda.
>>333139878
You forgot the shitty combat and weak dungeons.
>>333139784
I know. I actually like its dungeons just fine but fuck, do I hate the train, and the flute, and the towns are boring as shit, and...you know what, fuck it. ST's entire overworld is the biggest wash in the series for me. But it's good in dungeons.
>>333139932It's my favorite Zelda, 2D or 3D.
>>333140107
Found the stupidest fucker in the universe.
Can we all agree that Zelda U needs to drop the music gimmick item?
>Ocarina of Time.
>Ocarina of Time again.
>Wind Waker baton.
>That stupid flute thing.
>Wolf howling.
>That stupid harp thing.
They're never fun, and outside of Majora's Mask they're often superfluous from the main story.
I liked how the dialogue chains grew over time. The supporting cast and the ending scenes reminded me that I have emotions.
>>333140181
Nah, I just think it has the best dungeons in the series and I like me some dungeons. Also the best combat mechanics, with only Zelda II giving it any real competition.
>>333140359
it does have some good dungeons but god damn the pacing is fucking shit
>>333140520
Fair point. TP's story pacing is all over the place. I think its beat by beat setpieces are consistently good but it's first third is slow as fuck, the middle stuff is actually alright even if the Dominion Rod bit slows things down some, and then the game's just about over once you beat City In The Sky. Pacing is definitely one of its glaring flaws but I love the game for what it gets right.
>>333139878
man, making the overworld greener was one of the best things about okami
>>333139932
w-i-n-d-w-a-k-e-r
>no dungeon for third pearl
>going to one of the shittiest 3d zelda dungeons twice
>triforce hunt
>parry button
So when Zelda U comes out we'll have threads starting off as:
>Now that the dust has settled, what went wrong?
, and it'll be the new worst game right?
>>333140303
>The Wind Waker
I found it funny how despite the game's name, the Baton played no role in the actual story. Unless you count getting the two Wind gods in your favor.
>>333140819
Inevitably, presumably when all the people who do like the game are too busy actually playing it to counter-shitpost. Or, it could actually be a shit game. We don't know yet.
>>333140819
Originally, everyone gave MM shit for having few dungeons, a shitty gimmick, and an absurd tone/style in comparison to older Zeldas. Then people started saying it was comparable to classic literature.
There was a time when literally everyone hated Wind Waker for being kiddy shit that was too easy. Then people started saying it's the best game ever because muh ganondorf.
Then TP and its 8.8 came out and people were calling it a poor rehash of OoT. But now, a lot of people are coming to say it's the best Zelda with the best sidekick.
Give SS a few more years and it'll become the best Zelda game.
I know man, Link isn't even cute.
>>333141095
That's what I'm getting at. The franchise is constant in both good and bad ways. If you liked OoT ever you can play and enjoy MM WW TP and SS.
>>333141095
I'm already seeing people say it has the best combat and world design in the series. I mean, they're different enough to make an argument for sure, but I think that's an uphill battle personally.
Worst is obviously Wind Waker. Not that WW is a bad game, but compared to other Zeldas its really low.
>empty overworld
Usually you find and explore something in Zelda ever few steps. In WW, this exploration is limited to the islands, which are completely isolated and often restrict entry until later in the game. Even then, the islands were little more than the secrets they held. Exploration factor = 0
>worst story pacing in the history of Zelda
The beginning was decent. Saving your sister was a good plot point to base the adventure on. But after that, it goes down quickly. LITERALLY "Ey Link you gotta visit those temples. Also you know the triforce? It's split into eight pieces, you gotta find that as well" WW basically has Skyrim quests... You get one objective, which covers multiple locations, and then that's it, the game goes into sleep mode. In games like TP, SW, MM there are events and little pieces going with you along the way. WW on the other hand is pretty much a sandbox game in that regard.
I don't know how people can be afraid of Zelda U being "western" when WW already did that. It nailed the "adventure part" of Zelda(until you grew tired of the sailing), but everything else falls short. It even has less dungeons with forgettable designs as well. WW is the only maingame that could pull of being a side title as well.
>>333139496
Fi without the robo-speak right fucking here.
>>333141401
>best combat and world design
It has neither. I didn't like how most of the game was uninhabited.
>>333139496
It was originally a PS2 game, so what do you expect.
>>333134517
It's probably Twilight Princess and even that is still a great game. There are no bad Zelda games made by the Japanese.
>>333141095
The moment I start seeing a majority of Zelda fans calling SS great is the moment I give up on ever trying to have a conversation about this series and the moment I start pretending I've never played these games.
The Wind Waker is by far the worst. Huge gap in quality between TWW and the other 4.
>>333141758
A minority already exists. Enjoy the time you have left.I don't think SS was "great" in retrospect but I don't dislike it either. I don't want another Zelda like it, though. One was enough.
>>333141758
>ebin ss is terrible meme
It wasn't great, but it was better than the previous two 3D Zelda games.
>>333141902
>>333142072
I wouldn't call the game terrible either, but I just can't see what it offers that something like TP doesn't.
If everyone starts unsarcastically calling it the best, I'm out.
>>333139471
Nah anon the quality went down because people didn't like it, such as yourself
>>333141401
Don't forget the dungeons, bosses (except for the imprisoned, fuck that) and characters
>>333141758
Hope you enjoy being a mute, fag
>>333142843
It has better combat, bosses, characters and art style than tp
If you disagree I will assume you were dropped on the head as a child
>>333134517
Pic unrelated
>>333141758
Same kiddo, but for me it was MM.
Whatever happened to all the MM shitposters anyways?
>>333142843
Well, it offers a handful of obvious things like changing the fundamentals of combat, trading in the relevance of things like spacing and footwork for more grounded swordplay and attempting to fuse field areas and dungeons to the tune of the latter. Neither of those things are something Zelda has really done before but the real question is "did Zelda even need any of this?', to which the answer varies from person to person but the general consensus is "no". That said, there are some lesser ideas as well like emphasizing shield parries and punishing simply tanking hits, the idea of stamina and light parkour elements, and the ability to upgrade items based on materials that enemies drop. SS seems to have taken a few light cues from something like Monster Hunter and contextualized it into a Zelda game, and that's a bit less controversial in my eyes.
>>333142843
>Defending TP
>With the braindead combat
>The empty overworld
>The useless items
>The ugly character design
>And the worst case of Ganon hijack seen in a Zelda game to date
The Zelda cycle is real.
>>333143547
All of the characters were bland except for Midna
>>333143547
>braindead combat
Even if you don't acknowledge the secret skills it's not as braindead as WW's parry "timing".
>the empty overworld
Relative to its size, sure. There's still a typical amount of overworld content for a Zelda game, though. Plenty of holes to dig up, heart pieces to find, a few caves to explore, a decent number of minigames and so on.
>The useless items
Having just replayed it, only Ball and Chain gets the real shaft. Most of the dungeons incorporate multiple items. Hell, one of the most popular examples of items getting the shaft is the Spinner and it comes back in Temple of Time, City In The Sky, and Hyrule Castle. Briefly, but it's still remembered; it just has rather limited utility.
>The ugly character design
Granted, though a few characters look alright. TP's character design is wildly inconsistent.
>And the worst case of Ganon hijack seen in a Zelda game to date
Why does no one remember that he was introduced in a cutscene that was pretty much the end of OoT right after Arbiter's Grounds? It's not a hijack at all, and it becomes clear in retrospect when Zant never did shut the fuck up about his new god.
>>333135565
YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU SAD SONOFABITCH.
EAT MY ASS.
>>333142950
So you're saying that it's still Skyward Sword's fault for being bad?
>>333139517
ST has better dungeons than PH, though the train is inferior to the boat. Spirit Tracks wins for me simply because the Spirit Tower was much better implemented than the goddamn Temple of the Ocean King.
>>333144332
That's like saying Stalin was better than Hitler.
It's not much of an achievement.
>>333143305
>>333143139
the bosses in SS were pretty terrible. dungeons were top tier though
>>333144919
I liked all the Ghirahim battles and Koloktos is cool as fuck the first time you fight him. Demise wasn't too bad either. Otherwise, eh.
>>333142843
>but I just can't see what it offers that something like TP doesn't.
combat, pacing, upgrading, overworld, and supporting cast
>A Link To the Past.
Best zelda yet. Prove me wrong.
>>333144140
>only Ball and Chain gets the real shaft
it's great in combat, especially againts redeads and dinolfos
>>333143139
>except for the imprisoned
>he attacked the toes
>>333146651
Waiting for his fat ass to catch up to my camping spot is even more painfull than hitting the toes.
Unless you mean the Groosenator in which case only a literal retard would not use it in the second/third fights.
>>333141513
It really annoys me when WWfags talk about the game's """"exploration""". I'm with you, the islands are boring and tedious to travel between.
>>333143139
There's only one good dungeon in SS and it is the ancient cistern. For the rest TP is better in almost each one of its dungeons excepting for the Sky one which is really tedious.
The amount of hand holding in SS for the 3 first dungeons is sickening and the gimmicks take too much room. Even the bosses are a let down considering that 3 out of the 7 in the game have the giant eyeball weakness. And you must fight the shitty antagonist 3 times.
I'm pretty confident that SS is clearly the worst 3D zelda
>Good
OoT and TP
>Garbage
MM, WW, SS
>>333147248
>he used the regular air lifts
And you're really just gonna post a bold faced lie like that? Getting on its head either by diving or jumping off ledges is faster than the toes, even on hero mode with the upgraded skyward strike.
>>333147303
Worst 3D Zelda is still GC WW to me.
>That triforce hunt
>That piss easy difficulty
>Those lack of dungeons
Man, fuck WW.
>>333147303
>Even the bosses are a let down considering that 3 out of the 7 in the game have the giant eyeball weakness.
How does this comment make any sense to you?
>>333147261
As someone who thinks WW is the weakest 3D Zelda, I think the ocean exploration is the best thing it has going for it. Yeah, it boils down to finding small patches of maybe something in large expanses of mostly nothing but I'll admit that the prospect of charting an entire sea was interesting enough to hold for its duration in my experience. I don't think it's the kind of thing that would hold on repeat playthroughs and the idea in execution comes off as a bit shallow in retrospect but it's not like I didn't say I think it's the weakest 3D Zelda. I think it's an element of the game that works in the moment, only threatening to fall apart the moment you actually think about it.
>>333147303
>The amount of hand holding in SS for the 3 first dungeons is sickening
>making shit up
>>333134517
indeed OP.
>>333138624
>WW is best 3D Zelda.
Good bait though. It's MM.
>>333147303
It's a dead horse by now but I hope they fired whoever designed the bosses in this game.
>A literal fucking ball
>All consuming evil looks like a penguin
>Eye on a stick that coughs on you
>>333147572
>I'll admit that the prospect of charting an entire sea was interesting enough to hold for its duration in my experience.
>>333147572
>I think it's an element of the game that works in the moment, only threatening to fall apart the moment you actually think about it.
You just admitted that you like being tricked into thinking game mechanics are way deeper than they really are and that it's okay to do this because you'll be fooled the first time.
Sorry, I don't go much for the 'illusion' of gameplay so much as the real gameplay.
>Tfw still haven't played because I have been postponing buying a motion plus for about half a decade
>>333140303
That's exactly what it doesn't have to change. The music gimmick is good. Only if it is good though.
It sucked much ass in TP and SS.
It just ned to be good again like in OoT and MM.
>>333147869
It sucked ass in every incarnation that isn't an ocarina.
>>333147797
Well yes, it is an illusion, one that I think is maintained reasonably well. Again I'm not exactly speaking high praise for the game here, I just think it's one of the few things it does competently.
>>333147797
I think that compared to the empty plains of Shadow of the Colossus, exploring an empty sea is more enjoyable. They both have the same goal, relieving the console by creating "loading areas", but it seems more understandable to encounter from time to time a boat when I'm sailing between two islands than encountering absolutely nothing in gigantic plains.
>>333147952
>one that I think is maintained reasonably well
Well you can have your entirely wrong opinions, but anyone with half a brain is going to stop exploring those islands halfway through the game because they serve no purpose. Not like you need heart containers even in Hero Mode on the HD version. 85% of the non-story islands are useless and the design of the islands really shorts the area before a dungeon. Add to that the lack of dungeons, and WW is forced to use its sea gimmick for padding.
I think we both agree there is that initial feeling of, 'oh wow this entire ocean to map out.' But for me it fell through on that first play through, right around the third goddess pearl with me realizing this game was going to be bare bones as fuck.
>>333148137
Okay, but no one is talking about SotC. Of the 3D Zelda games, WW is the worst in nearly everyway and especially the overworld.
Skyward Sword is the absolute worst 3D Zelda.I'd give it a 9/10
>>333147303
>The amount of hand holding in SS for the 3 first dungeons is sickening
1st encounter with Girahim is the hardest Zelda's been since Death Mountain on the NES. This is the FIRST BOSS.
>>333148428
>Swing at Ghirahim.
>He grabs my sword.
>Too dumbstruck to waggle it back.
>He snatches it from me, comments on it a little then flings it back in my face.
First time in years I'd been legit surprised by a Zelda boss. It's a shame the second half of the game had fuck-all for new enemies, the most boring boss on earth gets repeated like three times and the Master Sword eventually wrecks everything in 1-2 hits.
>>333147303
>There's only one good dungeon in SS and it is the ancient cistern
>>333148593
>the most boring boss on earth gets repeated like three times
>counting the third fight
>attacking the toes
>>333148605
>Was hoping for some eldritch abomination as the final boss.
>Dat buildup as you escape to the front of the ship.
>It's a squid monster so lame that it would make Splatoon's artwork look gritty and realistic.
They should have saved the robot pirate for the final fight and had him do more shit.
>>333148605
>Kill the Pirate dude
>Never meet him in the past when he was in his prime
>Boss comes from nowhere
>Ship is ripped apart
>They fix it in like five seconds and the fact the ocean is full of giant monsters is never bought up again
That whole section was weird
>>333148593
I swear I have never figured out any of the Ghirahim fights.
1st fight: That dash attack was completely unavoidable
2nd fight: Still unavoidable
3rd fight: Blocks every hit, can only parry with shield
>>333148745
>it's cartoony so it's bad
>expecting eldritch abomination after 4 bosses
All the bosses aside from Ghriahim and Koloktos are Monsters Inc. characters, I don't know why you'd single one out.
>>333148605
>First dungeon
>Ancient Cistern
>Boat
That's it. I mean, sure, it's 50% of Wind Waker's content but it's no Twilight Princess.
>>333144234
It's your fault for not realising it's the best zelda
>>333149015
>That dash attack was completely unavoidable
shield bash anon
>>333149151
Sky Keep was the best last dungeon in a 3D Zelda.
I never said it had has many good dungeons as TP, but it is miles above WW in this respect.
>>333149213
My shield broke. This is Zelda, right? Monster Hunter and Dark Souls wasn't that fucking brutal.
>>333149280
Hated every part of Sky Keep, except the Courage section and re-fighting the pirate dude. That puzzle in the sand room was some serious bullshit.
>>333149336
>>333149289
>being this fucking casual
TP > WW > MM > OoT > SS
(OoS > OoA) one game with seasons being the better half > LA > MC > LTTP > 1 > 2 > PH
Never played HW, ST, ALBW
Zelda is one of the only franchises left that's constantly getting better with each installment.
Sadly it ends here. How the fuck could we possibly go back to mashing B in ZeldaU after having experienced the best swordplay in video games?
>>333149480
With a list that bad you have to explain it.
>>333149280
I know lots of Final Dungeons have pulled that shit before but it being 100% recycled was like the final kick in the dick considering it's the only dungeon in the SKy.
But some of the puzzles were pretty ballsy, really loved that dark "cisterny" section with the fuckload of enemies in it.
>>333149515
> Zelda
> combat
Pick one
>>333149572
I don't think you know what the word recycled means. SS has new puzzles that just use the themes and elements of the dungeons. It did it better than OoT and it was sure as fuck better than WW or TP's boss rush bullhshit. WW is literally the same fights again and Zant is only changed to accommodate his character model.
>>333149553
Not much to explain, just enjoy some more than others. I take you're mainly talking about LTTP as it's regarded the best. I never played the SNES version for some reason, picked it up on GBA. I just felt it wasn't a very good game. Probably played it too late but it's mainly the world feeling kind of desolate.
>>333149957
LTTP is extremely underwhelming but very many of the aspects that makes OoT a masterpiece originates from there. Parallel worlds, basically all of the dungeon items etc. OOT was basically LTTP in 3D.
>>333149957
>I take you're mainly talking about LTTP
No, your 2D list I understand. The 3D list is fucked. And what you mean by, "just enjoy some more than others," really means, "I can't articulate my thoughts and feelings." It adds up.
>>333150371
You want an entire list of every pro and con of the games then? Okay.
TP has the best artstyle in my opinion.
The world is the best in the entire series.
Also has the best music. The connections to OOT are nice but I feel it's too much change still. Like Kakariko should've looked basically the same.
WW looks great and plays great, and it's only below TP because of the ocean. Sailing gets boring, but luckily you're able to warp.
MM is the best in one way, but to me it's hard to replay, which is not the case for the other games.
OOT was good at the time but I feel it hasn't aged that well. Set the standard but it's been surpassed.
SS is just a mess. I love the artstyle and the world is good, but Fi is game breaking. The dialogue boxes are so prevalent too. Without those two elements it would be in #1 but right now it's a diamond covered in talking turds.
SS end made me cry
>>333150873
Why?
I was glad to see Fi shut up.
>>333150873
>Impa stays behind
>Turns out she was the old woman all along
>Instantly dies anyway
Nintendo's just like "u wantu happi end? fak u!"
correct
ITT: Faggots who didn't make it to the glorious mid-game and end-game content.
>>333150940
Pure oot nostaglia tbqh
>>333151315
the mid game content and final boss are not worth the fucking slog through the rest of the gae
>>333151510
I disagree. What do you remember best, a game that was mostly boring with a few mind-blowing moments or a game that's just solid all around?
The good parts of SS were the best parts in the entire franchise.
>>333138457
>Okami
I'm trying to play Okami now. It's shockingly bad. The hand-holding makes Skyward Sword look hardcore, while the drawing makes SS's controls look perfectly reliable.
>>333151631
Okami's only flaw is the first like, 10 hours feel like a tutorial. the 40 after that eventually leave you be
>>333151594
like what? you know the entire time temple was just a rehash of the gimmick from the oracles game.
>>333151703
The Wii version had the worst controls on the system, and that's saying something. Also it's pretty dull overall and the wall-tapping segments were not cool.
>SS is 5 years old
>>333148428
I found the Girahim boss encounters more tedious than enjoyable. I knew exactly what I had to do and the wiimote failed to acknowledge what I was doing half the time. Even if it had worked properly, it was really nothing special.
Fighting him 3 times me mad though
>>333135565
This
>>333139878
>>333139716
>>333139089
>>333151631
Okami has the worst dungeons of any Zelda clones, though. You play Okami for the setting, but level design wise it is weak.
(FUCK 4CHIN NOT SAVING POSTS WHEN YOU ACCENDELTY PRESS BACK ON YOUR MOUSE)
>>333134517
This is the worst Zelda game
Why do people like this shit? People say its the best zelda game ever made, HOW CAN YOU FUCKING SAY THAT?
This game was the one that started the cellshading meme and cellshading looks ugly as shit, here I was getting so hyped getting a Ocarina of Time style game with updated graphics, and I got this animu cutey cutey crap and Link/Zelda not even growing up.
Also WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE TO SAIL ON A FUCKING BOAT for hours just go get to a new LEVEL/DUNGEON? Its the same environment all the fucking time, I dont care about what the meme lore said this is a lazy ass job in creating a "world", 90% of the game was fucking water. sailing to an island then back, then back again on a boat was the worst fucking zelda experience ever.
Also every character looks and behaves retarded and is non-interesting, tingle maybe if you are a weeb.
>>333135565
On the Wii, I agree.
>>333155658
>This game was the one that started the cellshading meme and cellshading looks ugly as shit
You have shit opinions anon. Cell-shading was one of the best ideas back then for consoles very limited power wise. It forced devs to make efforts in the art direction department. Jet Set Radio is a fucking gem and so is Okami graphic wise. Cell Shading age well, and with a good gameplay some games became timeless.
>>333134517
It's a bad game, but still a step up from Twilight Princess.
KOLOKTOS
O
L
O
K
T
O
S
Quick, /v/? Whats the best 2D Zelda that I can get on my 3DS?
>>333157574
>aLBW is fun but easy
>aLttP is one of the best combat/difficulty wise.
>Link's awakening has a good storyline and good puzzles, concepts
>But Capcom did better with the oracles. Both oracles are GOAT. With excellent dungeons, excellent puzzles
>Minish Cap is good but too short.
>The DS games are shit though.
>Try Zelda 1 and 2 only if you want to know where the series does come from. They are the hardest ones. And personally I'd say that 1>2 but there are people who will tell you otherwise.
>>333137958
>tp is better than ww
garbage child please go
>>333159096
>ww is better than tp
animu weeb please go
>>333159212
>ww
>animu
please get your brain checked
I can't believe the amount of hate Twilight Princess gets. Out of the entire series, it has:
>the best combat
>horseback combat
>the best dungeons
>some of the best bosses
>the least intrusive sidekick, and also the best character-wise
One subjective point that I can understand people not liking are the character designs. OoT/MM and Wind Waker are waaay better, but TP still has better and more memorable characters than Skyward Sword, which just had Groose.
People hate the wolf sections, which only take 20-30 minutes each, for only 3 out of like 10 dungeons.
People complain about the empty overworld, even though it's just as populated if not moreso than Ocarina of Time, and especially more than Wind Waker and Skyward Sword. The only games that have ever had enemy packed overworlds are the 2D ones.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I see this game on the bottom of people's lists constantly, even lower than Skyward Sword.
The biggest complaint I ever had about Twilight Princess was that it was way too easy, but with Dolphin's cheats, and HD's Hero Mode + Ganondorf amiibo, that factor is completely out the window.
>>333160027
>best combat
>best bosses
But skyward sword has those
>>333157345
>One of maybe 3-5 times the game gets motion controls right
Koloktos was really cool.
>>333160240
>Skyward Sword
>best combat
It has one gimmick, having enemies that force you to swing in a certain direction, so that means every enemy has to use this gimmick, and you have to just wait until it opens up horizontally or vertically and slice accordingly. It's the only gimmick it has that can't be done without motion controls, so it's overused constantly through the game.
>best bosses
The multi-armed robot and robo-pirate were great, and Ghirahim was a great first boss, but then you have squid dreads, the imprisoned, and Ghirahim again, and the Imprisoned 2 more times, and Demise then that's it, really.
>>333160240
I don't know what game you played but swinging your sword in a certain direction does not make good combat. It gets pretty tedious after you have to do it for every single enemy
>>333135565
I had a bigger sense of adventure in twilight princess than skyward sword mostly because of sidequests in tp, but both are you getting spoonfed where you have to go, so they're both shit.
Now majora's mask is my jam.
If SS didn't have shitty imprecise motion controls it would be a top 3 Zelda game
>>333161298
Not really. The motion controls is all it has to make it seem competent in any way. If you remove those, you have a terrible, pointless overworld, an extreme lack of characters, mostly goofy-looking bosses, overly repeated bosses, and Fi would still exist.
>>333161220
>Majora's Mask is my jam
Opinion discarded
>>333161108
Mashing b to win also gets tedious
>>333134517
>Play Skyward Sword
>Enjoy the ever loving shit out of it
>come onto /v/
>Everyone HATES it
Sorry you forgot how to have fun guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ReyoNpyrM
>>333162679
wait a minute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC5kHf58GMI
>>333162435
Lol...
>>333162584
>Liking 50% filler content
I like some of the bosses and combat, but 75% of the game is ass, especially pretty much everywhere outside of dungeons.
>>333134517
2d Zelda >>>>>>>>>> 3d Zelda
Have at me faggots
>>333162584
I really, really like it, but every almost every aspect of it is the worst of the series. Fi is the most talkative, intrusive partner that's ever been in a Zelda game. The overworld has never been emptier or more pointless than the sky in SS. There are so few characters in comparison to every other game. Ghirahim and The Imprisoned are fought like 3 times each, which has never happened in a Zelda game before, and the Imprisoned barely changes.
Then there are little things that add up, like how in Twilight Princess when picking up any rupee worth more than a green one, the game would stop to tell you what it's worth. Well, they fixed that in Skyward Sword, but with the new item crafting system, it implemented the same thing with crafting materials. And there are MORE crafting materials types in SS than there ever was rupee types in TP, so it's somehow worse and more prevalent.
In OoT, the combat is basically just mash B to win. The puzzles are just really easy, basic, boring shit, like "push the block in the hole". More of a tech demo. 3/10
MM took the concepts laid out in OoT and did them better in every conceivable way. It has a better story, a better partner that actually has a personality and isn't annoying, you have different forms Link can switch between for more advanced combat and puzzles, and most importantly, you have actual side quests unlike in OoT. Hunting for masks is fun, and side content is mandatory for adventure games. It's not an adventure if it's a straight linear line to the end like OoT. Some try to argue that OoT is non-linear, because you can get a dungeon's item, leave the dungeon, and come back and finish it later. This would be like if somebody argued that Mario 3 was non-linear, because you can go to the end of a level, then pointlessly go back to the beginning of the level, only to go to the end again. Overall score for MM: 8/10
WW was really easy and boring. The combat and puzzles are even simpler than in OoT, plus you will have to spend several hours just on the dead, empty, lifeless ocean. This sort of gameplay relies on the player being wowed by "charm" and art style. I for one am not impressed. 2/10
TP has the best story, the best combat, the best partner, and the best puzzles in the entire series. It is clearly the best, and if you disagree you're either stupid, you have bad taste, or you're just not thinking. 9/10
SS is fun. The combat really makes the game. The motion controls are very precise, only baddies disagree (see webm). The puzzles in this game are pretty self-solving; sort of like how you walk into a room in OoT, and you just instantly know what to do, and it's just a matter of carrying it out. The puzzles are very simple in SS in this same manner. But the game is really more about the combat, story, etc. 8/10
>>333162584
Looking at my post:
>>333163297
With all that negativity, maybe I should say everything that I was really happy with.
I absolutely love the sprinting and running up walls mechanics. The only thing it needed was a longer stamina meter, or none at all. Much better than rolling.
Breakable shields and the item crafting system are welcome additions.
Real-time potion drinking is the best.
Separating the "main" items, like the bow and such, from the "side" items, like bottles is an amazing idea, and the item switching works great, and is faster than even the HD remakes of WW and TP.
Fuck Skyward Sword
still haven't finished it because of pic related, just annoyed me too much
>>333134993
You mean the two best 3d Zelda games?
>>333143547
>the worst case of Ganon hijack seen in a Zelda game to date
That's not Four Swords Adventures, a game that literally featured an established villain being shoved the fuck aside for an entirely NEW reincarnation of Ganondorf.
Twilight Princess at least made it clear early on that Zant wasn't pulling the strings. Hell, Even aLttP has a more flagrant hijack, with the whole Agahnim thing.
>>333165401
I did not have extremely long play sessions in SS because I loved the game, I had them because fi would talk less and less after some of her dailogue was exhausted. I mean damn was she annoyong!.
>>333143547
>"Hijacked by Ganon"
Fuck you. I'm playing through TP HD right now, and there is every indication that Ganondorf is the big bad. Midna tells you that Zant's powers are NOT just from his Twili abilities, and that he must have found a newer, powerful evil magic, very early in the game. And then Zant himself says the same thing when he forces the evil crystal into your head and almost kills Midna. After that, you go to the mirror of Twilight where you first hear Ganondorf's name, which is about half-way through the game.
There was no last minute switch. There was every indication that Ganondorf was the final villain. You can say that you didn't like that Ganondorf was pulling the strings, but you can't say that the plot was hijacked by him.
>>333134517
Better than the Gamecube ones, worse than the N64 ones. Mediocre by Zelda standards but still a good game overall.
>>333149289
>My shield broke
You can stop that attack with your sword. Just swing it on the side he is running towards you, he is always a bit left/right from you when doing that.
>>333167734
What's really funny is that something a lot of people forgot was that WE KNEW Ganondorf was in the game before it even came out. We were literally told that he was involved in the game's plot half a year in advance, and screenshots of his execution scene were released an entire month before the release date.
>>333160240
>Best bosses
It has the most hit and miss selection of bosses in the series. It boggles my mind that great bosses like Ghirahim and Koloktos are in the same game as "King Dodongo: It's Just A Fucking Rock Edition", Mike Wazowski, and that stupid fucking avocado.
>>333134517
>Played through Ocarina, Majora, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword basically back-to-back
Can one of you Zelda fags explain to me why they started jamming a shit ton of filler content into these games after Majora?
Twilight Princess is the worst video game of all time.
>>333163381
You can do different types of slashes/stabs on enemies, and usually items/equipment have alternate uses when approaching combat in OoT. If you just swung your sword and nothing else, you went several times slower on enemy encounters.
MM > OoT > WW >> SS > TP
I'm sure my nostalgia factors into this. Really didn't enjoy TP outside of the dungeons though.
>>333135565
It's not the worst but it's vastly overrated by neo-/v/ babbies now.
It will always remain a huge disappointment for me though, as that was the case for many people shortly after its release.
I got Twilight Princess HD recently, and is it just me or does Epona control like shit now?
>>333140303
I like the music gimmick, it's now one of the aspects that makes Zelda well, Zelda. Up there with time travel and whatnot.
The problem is that the last several music mechanics were poorly implemented
>Wind Baton was annoying to play because of the beats and that you had to use it EVERY SINGLE TIME to change the wind's direction
>Wolf Howling sounded fucking awful and it was more like a side quest thing then a mainline mechanic. The motion control gimmicks didn't make it fun either.
>The Goddess Harp was fucking embarrassing as the motion control gimmicks made it impossible to properly play, so it never sounded like you were playing a music piece to begin with.
>>333141095
It's a combination of neo-/v/ kiddies who weren't around when Zelda was at its peak and started off with one of these post-quality fall out games like WW, TP or SS; as well as the fact that console Zelda games have become shittier and shittier with every new installment.
>>333174729
Epona always controlled like that. It's shit, but she's useless anyway because warping exists, and wolf-form is fast enough.
>>333175254
I started with Link's Awakening when it came out. TP was always the best for me. SS is trash. Lttp is beyond mediocre. God forbid people have certain tastes right?
Wind Waker is the worst
>>333163381
>The combat really makes the game.
Aside from a few standout moments where the combat really hits it off the combat in the game is garbage.
The actual sword play is very mashy for most standard enemies or is simon says, and the inaccuracy and lack of alacrity associated with the controller is weighed against the sluggishness of the enemies in terms of difficulty.
Even if the controller at times handles like a buttery dream that still has to be considered against all the times that it doesn't when making a combat encounter because unlike buttons or analog sticks there is an innate failure chance even with a decent setup and controller.
Using items mid-combat is so awkward that it's mostly dropped except for some enemies like the Gust Jar hopper that are slow enough to compensate the awkwardness.
It wouldn't really be so bad if the new sword play actually added depth compared to what would be available through button presses but it really doesn't.
The story drags you by the nose.
You're doing three of a thing over and over without a satisfying reward.
I can take Groose because Groose is cool but the rest of the story is mediocre.
>>333134517
I think people have a weird perception of what Zelda games are. Probably because Zelda doesn't fit into any mold other than "Zelda". People enjoy bitching about Aonuma's puzzles but it's not as though navigating environmental hazards hasn't always been the main crux of every single Zelda game. People are always talking about combat, when combat has never been particularly engaging in these games. I jumped from Bloodborne to TPHD and I had an adjustment period where I had to relearn that heart-pounding boss encounters aren't every game's forte.
Skyward Sword was an attempt to make combat more engaging, and to its credit, Kolotos, Girahim and Demise are the series' best bosses. However, the moment-to-moment combat boils down to the same wait for an opening and praying that this slash isn't that 10% of the time it fails to get your shit right.
I think the game will end up aging poorly. We're well past the motion control era, so younger fans who end up playing it later will be immensely alienated by its emphasis on the Wii's "revolutionary" technology.
OoT is is pretty shit these days
>>333134517
>Game stops to remind you of what collectable item you just picked up every single time you start a new play session
WHY
H
Y
>>333173230
>Can one of you Zelda fags explain to me why they started jamming a shit ton of filler content into these games after Majora?
Change in directors.
Pre WW games had a combination of Miyamoto, Koizumi, Tezuka and Aonuma co-directing the games. Most of the 64 titles' brillance came from Koizumi though.
Now it's just Aonuma who directs them and he was basically only the dungeons designer guy in the past.
Miyamoto just supervises with an iron fist now and has lost his touch. Tezuka works on Yoshi now and has also lost his touch, Koizumi was the golden goose director of the pre-WW games desperately wants to return to Zelda, but is stuck in Mario hell. So that left the Zelda franchise to the worst possible director of the lot.
Aonuma is the kind of guy who gets ideas from his son. Trains, shoebill mounts, goofy-looking enemies, excessive rupee chests and drawn out tutorials partially exist because of his son.
He's also just a bad director/producer because he can't manage dev time cycles worth a shit. That's why it takes them 5 years to make a Zelda game now, and even then it's full of stupid padding and shit to hide the lack of content going for it.
>>333175783
No, I played the gamecube and wii version few days before the HD version came out, and it controlled amazing, HD version controls worse than Majora's Mask, they even mentioned that one of the things they changed in TP HD was "improved horse controls"
>>333176405
>The guy who made WW
>The guy who made MM in one year
I find all of this hard to believe, specially the hand holding part, I think they just thought it would help new players and that veterans wouldn't mind it too much, but now they seem to realize how annoying it is, as they are toning it down in games after Skyward Sword.
>>333139353
Thats actualy a 2D Zelda
>>333177519
SS is the worst offender. After everybody complained about Navi being annoying in OoT (while she rarely interrupted you), Fi CONSTANTLY pops up in SS and interrupts your gameplay to tell you exactly how to do the next puzzle, or something else you could have just figured out yourself. Fi is 1000x worse than "Hey Listen", I don't even know how they thought this was a good idea.
>>333160865
Tentalus concept as a boss is great, better than most bosses in Zelda, from its introduction, change in the arena, its only downside is the tired "atack giant eye".
But it could be forgiven, if it hadn't literally the worst design in the whole series ever.
Its not even in the same fucking style of the game, that is why i hate tentalus, because it could've been great.
>>333134993
>>333135565
>>333139932
>>333173786
I'll never understand this immense hatred for TP. It is definitely lacking in the creativity/innovation department seeing as it's just a larger, "darker" OoT, but it is probably the most technically sound game with the best dungeons as a result. Yes, the filler and characters are awful, but the actual meat of the gameplay is better than any other 3D Zelda game. The only gripe I have with its actual gameplay is that it is a tad too easy.
>>333178706
It's especially awful to do in this day and age, where, if people really are stuck, there are a thousand playthroughs on Youtube showing them exactly what to do, and wikis and walkthroughs online detailing every little thing in the game. It's not as though this stuff is new, guides had become totally antiquated by the time Wind Waker came out. I know this has become a joke to compare the two, but this is something the Souls series understand that Zelda doesn't.
Personally I always preferred the 2D Zelda games myself. Last night I played FSA for the first time and it was a lot of fun. Going to be starting TP soon, need to beat that one.
>>333178706
I think they tried to make Fi the second Midna, maybe they wanted you to feel like you had a partner in your journey, kinda like Ellie in Last of us, or Glados in that part in Portal, except they don't interrupt gameplay to talk to you and they have actual personalities, I also think they intended Fi's calculative personality to be funny, and it kinda was at times, like when she tells you what the chances are that the Kikwi you found is Zelda.
I think interruptions are the biggest fault Skyward Sword had, I really liked how it controlled , and the dungeons were some of the best in the series. I think Skyward Sword deserved an HD remake more than WW or TP did, just give us better resolution, a turn off help button and you're done.
>>333179801
Believe it or not, I saw a guy on /v/ complaining how Fi's advice wasn't clear enough and the game was shit because he had to google what to do.
>>333135565
Does the HD version fix the fucking awful camera and battle music cockblocking the Overworld theme? That's all I want to know
>>333180223
This. Fi is literally the one aspect I can't handle. She breaks the game. Baffling.
>>333178706
Aonuma didn't direct SS. He was the producer, though.
>>333180535
Camera's a hair better to control but on a fundamental level not really, and the battle music still is intrusive. Main thing about HD is that Hero mode + Ganondorf amiibo means the game now has the capacity to wreck your shit which is nice.
>>333181664
I like hero mode difficulty but I regularly just let myself die as soon as the beeping starts. I'd rather have a mode with one hit deaths, that beep is the most glaring case of not knowing shit about game design.
>>333180223
While I would prefer that Zelda dialogue remain all text-driven, the partner characters make the best case for full voice acting in the games, as everything stops for them to speak.
Speaking of which, I sure cannot fucking wait for main stream game reviewers to complain about the lack of full voice acting in a Zelda game for the millionth time, like having to read is some antiquated for of taking in information.
>>333182506
Reading is hard, don'tcha know?
>>333181664
Hero mode's a shit-ass meme. All dying does is send you to the beginning of the room. The beeping heart noise also drives me fucking nuts.
>>333182506
They could do something like showing text that appears on the bottom of the screen but you don't have to press anything and you can keep playing, kinda like Hyrule Warriors but not as intrusive.
>>333182724
>All dying does is send you to the beginning of the room.
True, and I wish that weren't the case. At least it sends you back with only 3 hearts though, meaning you're just about dead without a potion anyways.
>>333182724
I also didn't know the game was mirrored in that mode. Didn't even notice it even though it was the same as when I played it on Wii.
>>333182938
Yep. That actually pisses me off as it's the Wii version that I've played to death. Gamecube's flipped based on my perspective, but I can't do that unless I'm playing on Normal and TP feels much better without heart drops.
>>333183098
Yeah that's what I meant. Dumb choice on their part, I believe most people played the Wii version. Didn't even kniw there was a GC version until years later, never even saw it in retail.
>>333183289
It was always a Gamecube game but it was held back about a year or so so Wii could launch with a new Zelda. Easy cash with the promise of swinging the sword with a Wiimote on top of probably the most hyped Zelda to date. Gamecube version ended up coming out like a month after the Wii version and in FAR fewer quantities.
>>333140181
make that 2 stupid fuckers, then
>>333143305
>better combat
I guess, if only because TP combat was boring.
>bosses
It has, like, two bosses that could be considered good. The rest are complete garbage and most are just "big monster with eye weak point that you use the dungeon item on to fight" and it gets old fast.
>characters
Only character worth a shit in SS is Groose. Only character worth a shit in TP is Midna. I'll call it a tie.
>art style
Nope. I don't care what you say about TP's "grimdark" style or SS's "colorful and painterly" style, SS looked awful because the art direction was so wildly inconsistent, and a fuck load of the monsters and characters looked terrible.
>>333184235
I adore TP's combat on a mechanical level when you factor in the hidden skills but while you face enemies that heavily suggest their use none of them actually require it. I do think TP has some decent enemy types and AI for the core moveset but a lot of the enemy types are broken by some of the secret skills. If only the AI were a bit more adaptable and required good timing on secret skill use TP's combat could've been GOAT. I think the pieces are there, they just weren't pushed quite far enough.
>>333184694
I think that describes a lot of the recent Zelda games. Lots of potential, but always held back because Nintendo is allergic to depth and wants to keep things so simple that those neat touches never get a chance to shine.
>>333179324
Game is too linear and empty in the explanation department.
>>333185268
If you mean "exploration" then it's not much more story-oriented than OoT, nor it is realistically any more linear than WW despite the illusion of the Great Sea. Yeah, it never gets as non-linear as OoT's adult dungeons and there's a greater focus on story progression but if you manage to pull yourself away from all that there's stuff to do in the overworld. Problem is TP's clearly focused on getting the player to the next dungeon or setpiece, it's not really bothered with suggesting exploration despite the world holding its share of secrets.
>>333134517
What ruins this isn't repeating the same locations or collecting shit but the damn motion controls, I couldn't be assed to finish this shit.
>>333185708
That's a big problem a game its focused on story more than it should but then it belongs to a series about exploring... but then the few things there are to explore are shallow as a pond. TP has a severe case of identity complex.
If you manage to pull through the awful 2 hrs. tutorial.
>>333134517
Link's Crossbow Training
>>333186041
>it belongs to a series about exploring
Paradoxically it's Wind Waker where the series really began moving away from that. The games have steadily become more and more linear in nature until things came to a high with Skyward Sword. That straw broke a lot of camels' backs so to speak, so they've since turned around with ALBW and soon to be Zelda U, opening up the series more than it has been in over a decade.
>>333134517
I liked the art style. Other than that the game has a lot of flaws.
>>333187692
I agree, the art style is honestly my favourite of all the 3D games. Character designs are top notch as well.
>>333175913
This, SS is basically nothing but piss easy reskinned Bokoblins for the entire fucking game and nearly every non boss enemy could be cheesed with the shield bash anyway. At least TP had some variety to it's piss easy enemies.
>>333167734
Honestly I think Zelda and Ganon just had no place in TP. Zant and Midna were infinitely more interesting and important to the plot. Ganon coming in wasn't bad because it was unexpected, it was bad because it just threw everything that had already been built up out the window in favor of yet another "go rescue Zelda" ending, if anything the problem was it being TOO predictable and standard. It may have had some degree of build up but it still felt no less out of place and disappointing to witness him waltz in and become the true big bad as all the potential of the plot up to that point suddenly vanished.
>>333190794
Hate to break it to you but if we're dealing with the Triforce then Ganondorf and Zelda are involved, and guess what glows on Link's hand when he turns into a wolf? If you don't want Ganondorf as the villain then the Triforce needs to not be part of the story.
>>333191625
Then the triforce shouldn't be a part of it.
I'm fucking sick of all these things being a part of the plot for no reason other than "hur it's a Zelda game, gotta have the triforce, gotta have Ganon, gotta have Zelda, etc etc". That's no way to write a story. Link's Awakening did fine without all that shit. Majora's Mask did, too.
>>333191991
Hardly all Zeldas incorporate the Triforce. Twilight Princess did, though. In the grander scheme of things, it's Ganondorf making good on his final promise in OoT - to go after Link and Zelda's descendents. TP is a straight up sequel to OoT.
I would say that Majora's Mask is the worst 3D Zelda game that I've played, but SS's controls are horrendous, so that's why SS get's my vote for Worst 3D Zelda.
>>333190794
Personally, I thought Midna was forced down your throat way too much. Even Ganondorf doesn't fucking acknowledge Link when you first confront him, it's ridiculous. She just does not fit in a game where Link is still there. The way Zant did a complete 180 on his character was kinda lame too, after being a competent threat the rest of the game.
Skyward Sword really nailed the characters and their dynamic all around, though.
>>333192189
Another part of TP's story lost on people is the perception of Zant. He was never competent, he was always a clown. He was essentially a small child playing with big boy toys, from the start of the game to its end. The only reason he seemed menacing at all was be cause he coasted wholesale on his god's - Ganondorf's - power. All he ever was was too big for his britches.
>>333192573
That's the thing, you're saying he was always that way when every presentation of him up until the end was the exact opposite. The only reason he was "always" like that is they rewrite it to say every off-screen moment he was a fucking klutz.
It's just a character 180 done for no reason other than to make him more "unique" or "unnerving" and differentiate him from Ganondorf who they decided will be the serious final boss.
>>333193152
Power in the hands of the incompetent is a fairly consistent theme in TP. Midna fails to protect her people and has to rely on the Triforce wielders and her ancestors' ancient magic to get anywhere, the latter of which the light spirits are constantly warning Midna about. Zelda fails to protect her people from Zant and Hyrule almost falls to ruin because of it. Zant slots in as a joke who struts around like hot shit the moment he gets an ace in the hole. Even Ganondorf falls to Zelda and Link once he finally does his thing.
>>333192189
Midna's stronger screen presence is well justified, considering she's an infinitely more interesting character than a blank slate like Link.
Seriously, this is one complaint about TP I will never understand. It's not like Midna's stronger emphasis makes Link less important - he's still the legendary hero destined to save the world. The game just chooses not to revolve around that aspect, and ultimately, I think it's better off for it. If the game's story did practically nothing but jerk the player off about how important they are, TP really would be OoT 2.0.
Better than Twilight Princess, but not by much.
This thread is oddly civilized for a "My favorite Zelda is better than yours" thread.
>>333189381
You can cheese every enemy in tp with a shield bash too
>>333177519
>he believes aonuma is a good director
>cites majoras mask
>the game had miserable sales
>>333197791
>Sales correspond to quality
>>333134517
I'll say this much, the game had some great music to it.
>>333196362
It's because the Zelda cycle hasn't landed on SS being good yet, so it's unanimous that it's the worst.
>>333198637
quality is subjective. you enjoying it means it suited your personal preference but objectively that has no meaning. What has meaning is sales numbers which translate financially to the company, which makes the products and pays the salaries of the people who do.
>>333140040
>ST's entire overworld is the biggest wash in the series for me. But it's good in dungeons.
Exactly this, everything that wasn't the dungeons felt like a chore, especially the train traversal. At least when you went sailing in PH the islands you found were okay, and the DS island was pretty cool.
>>333198753
People have started saying SS is the best 3D Zelda in recent months. Let's not forget that the game is over 4 years old now.
TP>OOT>MM>WW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS
TP/OOT/MM/WW were all amazing games that each had things they excelled at but SS was an abortion. People will shit on TP for the filler and I understand that but the dungeons were phenomenal.
