If a video game doesn't age well, is it still a good game? How dumb of an argument is "It was good for its time"?
Ocarina is shit. 3D Zelda as a formula for games is great, but each installment is better than the last.
Fight me.
It's all perspective and context.
And (you)
>>333134185
"It was good for its time" should only be used in retrospect, or in the context of then and now.
Every anything should always be judged for what they are and what they are at the moment, nostalgia goggles off.
That being said; Deus Ex is still a good game. Mostly since it scratches an itch (does something) that very few other games does.
>>333134185
Games don't age, tastes do, and yours is obviously past expiration date.
>>333134491
So if someone played Deus Ex, having never really touched anything from that era of games, and they find the graphics, UI, and gameplay offputting, is that on the player or the game?
I personally tried to get into System Shock 2, but the UI and godawful voice acting severely hindered any enjoyment of the game I had.
>>333134367
>Skyward Sword is better than Wind Waker
I want whatever you're smoking.
>>333134367
Skyward sword is better than ocarina of time
>>333134532
REKT
>>333134691
It's on the player to not be a complete flaming faggot.
I played Deus Ex for the first time last year and loved it.
>>333134691
I'd say it's more on the time. Blame change if anything. Because you can't blame DX or SS2 for looking like shit, nor can you blame the player for thinking it looks like shit, etc.
I played Deus Ex for the first time right before Human Revolutions release. Also I'm born in 94.
>>333134185
Deus Ex holds up perfectly
>>333135119
Did you put all your points in swimming?
>>333135229
>>333135124
>>333135119
Never played it before but I've always been interested in it. Sitting in my Steam library atm. Might as well finally give it a go before DS3 comes out. Am I good with the basic install or are there must-have mods?
>>333134185
Dumb and not dumb. The argument is solid if properly backed up, but almost always used to defend a game when cornered about the overall quality of it.
Deus Ex I wouldn't say was JUST "good for its time" because there are some things people find it does better than modern games still.
Are there games that are good for their time? Yes.
>>333134691
It's on you, probably. I played SS2 about two months ago for the first time and it holds up.Fuck the monkeys though.
Just keep playing it. Maybe you'll like it eventually.
Or, you know, you could play something else that you havefunwith, anon. After all, everybody has different tastes.
>>333134691
Player, I played Human Revolution first and then decided first Deus Ex, suddenly no 'press x to do y', no wallhugging, no nothing and uninstalled it within three minutes, two weeks later when I didn't have anything to play I decided to give it another go since I really like the story and setting of Deus Ex while high and buzzed, got through first mission to 'relearn old controls' and it is my most favorite single player game ever since, get GMDX v8 mod bub.
>>333134185
Age only applies to things like graphics, framerate, maybe sound, etc. that are actually affected by the game's release and console.
Nothing else in a game "ages".
If you say a game has aged poorly and cite anything that doesn't have to do with hardware, you shouldn't be taken seriously.
>>333135350
I would get the DX10 renderer and Shifter. That's all you need.
>>333134185
there are many aspects of dayoos ex that are as good as they have always been, hell they are even better now that games have become shit
>still has good music
>still has good story
>still has good gameplay (in a broad sense, the gunplay sucks but everything else is great)
>still had good atmosphere
>>333135350
GMDX v8, rest is pretty irrelevant unless you're looking for total conversion.
>>333135450
Then what about something like Earthbound or classic Final Fantasy? Don't even try to argue that grinding is a good mechanic. The trend of JRPGs moving more towards fast-paced combat and ditching the need for random encounters makes most old JRPGs inferior.
Spoiler Alert:games don't age; the only thing that changes are the expectations of dumb kids who want everything to have modern trends and standards.
>>333135450
Things like physics, amount of things that can be rendered at the same time (or is that included in graphics?), AI, animations, UI, possible size of the game (there is a big difference between 500MB and 70GB).
Almost everything in vidya are in some way bound to hardware limitations. Like how some really old RPG's had to had pamphlets with the story in it since the text couldn't fit on a floppy.
>>333135384
I really really dig the atmosphere and setting of SS2, but navigating the clusterfuck of a menu system and hearing the under/over-acting voices were like nails on a chalk board.
I might give it a go again, but the last time I really just picked it up on a whim.
>>333135642
That's not age, that's a difference in game design philosophy. Some people don't mind random encounters, different devs have found different solutions to the issue of grinding. Someone in 2016 could make an RPG that has mechanics of an RPG from 1987, and someone in 1995 could make an RPG that has the mechanics of an RPG from 2006.
>>333135902
Animations and UI have to do with graphics
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I don't doubt I am, but AI just has to do with the competency of the developer.
Size and sprite/model limit is a notable factor affected by the hardware, but many developers found workarounds for this. Some work and some don't, when they don't it shows and that is a way that a game can age.
>>333134881
>>333134367
Zelda's are the video game equivalent of a fairy-tale. All nice and pretty with everything wrapped in a neat little bow, but lacking any real substance. Egoraptor might be a super subjective faggot but he's right when he describes modern Zelda titles as "Theme Parks".
The only way you can save the Zelda franchise is to introduce the open world mechanic. Give a sense of wonder and exploration back to the player.
>>333136320
i feel like random encounters were a shortcut so as to not have enemy animations or AI in the field, let alone extra sprites/models being rendered. there's no real practical reason to have random encounters when you don't need them
>>333136787
Some people do them in the modern day, so while you might be right it's not a product of any specific timeframe.
>>333136320
>AI just has to do with the competency of the developer.
No. It's CPU as fuck. How it's used however is on the devs. Like how the AI in FEAR isn't particularly advanced, just well used in relation of the map design.
...Map design is also hardware dependant...
The matter of hardware capabilities also brings up another interesting matter. Now that developers are capable of so much, is all this freedom stifling creativity? Did limits help create better games?
Deus Ex has aged but only in some areas
The game design is like a breath of fresh air even after the 5th play
The voice acting and graphics still serve their purpose and are average at worst
The gameplay and AI aged but again, the desing carries it easily
The story is flawless and it's literally timeless
So yeah, the only thing that would stop someone from enjoying Deus Ex is their shit taste. You could also install Give Me Deus Ex (GMDX) and fix everything about it.
>>333137449
>The story is flawless and it's literally timeless
Well I'm still mad you can't kill Gunther before locking you up or join MJ12
>>333137232
No. It's just that if you want to make a game with cutting edge technology, you need to make some profit out of it. And to achieve that you must catter to what the masses want, thus the devs' possibilities to be creative and experiment are almost minimal.
>>333137880
Fair point
The writing is flawless
Appreciating a game in its historical context, nostalgia, still legitimately enjoying that kind of gameplay, could be a number of reasons really.
>>333137449
Deus Ex is more than the sum of its parts. It's a mediocre stealth game it's a mediocre shooter it's a mediocre to role-playing game, but it's a totally amazing and unique combination of all these things.
Modern games succes better in every individual game play aspect of Deus ex but no single modern game succeeds in *all* the aspects.
Interestingly seen an Warren Specter interviewed and he was very critical of how dated elements are.
I get the impression he's actually disappointed it's 'passed test the time' actually. Like something a lot better should've come along by now
>>333139442
please post
playing system shock 2 right now and I'm loving it
Let's mention the big two I always see in these kinds of threads.
Goldeneye 64
Half Life 2
>>333134691
You sound like a huge faggot, the user interface is pretty good, is not the most accesible thing but it gets the job done.
Wait..people think the sound design and voice acting is bad in system shock 2. I'm really impressed by it.
>system shock 2
>bad voice acting
What the fuck? You are trying to troll, right?
>>333139442
I don't know if there is a recording but it's but when he was speaking at PAX Australia last year along with the Chick who did HR.
But yeah he didn't seem to think Dx should be seen as a classic. Rather it was simply the result of him wanting to make the best game he possibly could he could at the time and not taking no for an answer.
Which honestly I found refreshing. I came across someone he wasn't proud of humble, rather he just had a high standard in his work.
Of course you did then spend the next 40 minutes talking about why he thought Epic Mickey was his best game, so who knows
>>333138713
Except stalker. That being said the story and themes of deus ex is far superior in their content and delivery.
>>333134185
If a game ages then it doesn't matter anyway. Old games are superior to modern games so it's a dumb argument in the first place.
>>333141654
This thread just make me feel sad and nostalgic about all the great FPSCRPGs you don't see any more.
I don't suppose there's any indevs trying anything of that scope or ambition on steam green light? Even if it's a scam I just want to believe again.
>>333134185
>How dumb of an argument is "It was good for its time"?
Not dumb at all. Back in the day, a game is judged against the standards and trends set by the games that came before it. When we look at how good old games are now, we can compare it to the standards and trends we have today, which most likely are different from the original game and can in some cases be unfair.
>>333134691
>>333136083
>SS2
>Bad voice acting
>Bad menu system
pick one and only one
Jesus how old are you guys
>>333142397
>I don't suppose there's any indevs trying anything of that scope or ambition on steam green light?
They guys who made stalker are doing something at the moment. I saw a webm of it doing the rounds on /v/.
It was looking fucking great, the dynamic lighting and explosion effects were spectacular if I recall. Not to mention the gun animations, recoil and visual feedback were on point.
>>333134367
IMO if Ocarina of Time was released in 2016 with a better camera system it would've still been considered good.
>>333143063
Is that the ' surviarium ' game right? Basically stalker as an MMO?
I was pretty sceptical but I'll check it out.
I'm not a big fan of online multiplayer stalker made it pretty clear you are just one of many looters is in the zone so it that doesn't sound tact on.
>>333134185
>If a video game doesn't age well, is it still a good game?
Go try and play an Ultima game today.
>>333136787
>i feel like random encounters were a shortcut so as to not have enemy animations or AI in the field,
You're mistaken, it's a mechanic from D&D. No fucking shit it's going to be in games whose origins lie in D&D and other D&D-inspired games.
