Bioshock 2
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
What exactly was people's problem with this game?
Every time I see it mentioned on /v/ it's in negative context. I'm replaying it for the first time in about 5 years and I'm realizing I love it just as much as Bioshock 1. Apart from Sophia Lamb being a dumb arrogant cunt whose shit ideology is pushed on you constantly I can't -really- think of anything I outright dislike about the game. It really does feel like Bioshock 1 - just better, which is something I'd think most people would be more than alright with.
>dumb story
>better gameplay
that's pretty much it
>>332947914
What's so dumb about the story?
It's a rehash and unnecessary sequel.
It's like how people forget the shitstorm L4D2's announcement was. Even a game that's objectively better than its predecessor gets shat on if it's released too soon.
>>332948253
how come none of the shit that happens in bioshock 2 was ever mentioned in the first game?
yeah, i know the actual reason. because it's a bolted on sequel to a successful game but in the context of the world it makes no sense that the dumb bitch who knows so much about Ryan was never mentioned in the first game at all.
it's just a disconnect. i like the game, don't get me wrong.
>>332948320
Was almost 2 years between it and Bioshock 1 though, that's pretty similar to today's standard isn't it? In any case I do see your point.
It was better than the first Bioshock in pretty much every way except that Sofia Lamb was nowhere near as compelling as Andrew Ryan. My only gripe is that you lose some of the survival horror feeling playing as a brute in a Big Daddy suit
>>332949059
>that's pretty similar to today's standard isn't it?
The modern game industry has no 'standards'.
>>332947764
>Gil's audio diaries ask you to mercy kill him as he's becoming a monster
>If you kill him its considered an "evil" action
Dumbest moral choice I've ever seen in a game
>>332949451
I seem to remember it was a mistake, killing him was supposed to be the "good" thing but someone wasn't paying attention when programming it.
And then they never fixed it.
But I might be wrong about that
>>332949018
That's actually a pretty fair point, I hadn't thought about that.
>>332949451
I just got to this bit actually. I'd forgotten how much I love this character.
i liked it
being a big daddy was fun
fighting big sisters was fun
>>332947764
In terms for PC its a shitty port with its biggest problem being low res textures being littered about.
>The multiplayer was fucking garbage
>Big Sisters were nowhere near as engaging or fun to fight as Big Daddies
>Making escorting Little Sisters a primary gameplay element was a bad idea from the start
>The characters were largely unmemorable sans Sinclair
>environments incredibly unmemorable
>While the gameplay is better, it's only marginally so. The combat is still largely clunky and slow just like the first game, and it doesn't make up for the large downgrade in everything else
The only thing it really objectively has over the first game is that it doesn't shit the bed in the third act.
Drill rushing was the funnest thing in game. Wish they gave the drill more fuel
Because the story wasn't as good and nobody wanted to revisit collapsing rapture again. They didn't even do anything outside which was missing in the first game even though you have a convenient diving suit.
>>332949018
>bolted on
Heh
>>332947764
It has a better story, atmosphere, and combat than 1. 2 is the best game in the series.
>>332947764
What are you talking about? /v/ overwhelmingly likes BS2 over 1, has done so for years at this point? Only faggot hipsters like 1 over 2.
2 is an objective improvement in gameplay mechanics, and also isn't a lame remake of SS2 plot like BS1 was, but an original story of it's own.
>>332948253
Nothing it's even better than 1. BS1 is full of plotholes. BS2's choices actually matter.
>people claim Bioshock 2 has no redeeming features
>when Minerva's Den exists
>>332949295
>My only gripe is that you lose some of the survival horror feeling playing as a brute in a Big Daddy suit
It never had that feeling in the first place. Not even in the slightest. The only way you would possibly think this is if all you've played a action shooters before.
>>332949018
What type of criticism is this? Are you retarded? Maybe because BS2 was released after BS1 you dumb shit? Why is Bioshock the only IP in the world that isn't allowed to have a sequel for fucks sakes.
Why did Han never mention Lando in Star Wars, yet in Empire they are best mates. Wow, maybe it's because he had no reason too. Like Ryan had no reason to talk about some person who knew years previously to you. For fucks sake you are a dumb shit.
The funniest thing is BS1 so great "story" is literally a rip off of SS2's anyways.
BS1 should not even be played. You should play SS2, then BS2.
BS1 took the story and gameplay of SS2 and dumbed them both down. BS2 had an original story of it's own, and improved on the gameplay a lot to make it at least close to being as good as SS2 was.
SS1 > SS2 > BS2. That is how you should play the series. BS1 is a gay remake with shit dumbed down gameplay and a story built around a shitty twist that falls apart and is full of plotholes.
>>332952368
Really? I swear every time I see someone mention it it's in connection with words like 'disappointment' and in threads about 'games no-one liked but you'.
>>332951217
>Big Sisters were nowhere near as engaging or fun to fight as Big Daddies
I actually disagree with this, although Big Sisters become more of a nuisance than a threat later in the game.
>environments incredibly unmemorable
Also disagree with this, I thought places like Persephone and Siren Alley were really memorable, Siren Alley especially with the underwater part at the end of it.
First half is boring shit. Second half is pretty good.
I liked it more than Bioshock 1. The gameplay overall was just so much better (dat drill charge), and the last level more than makes up for the generally weaker story.
Sinclair's bit, becoming a Little Sister, Eleanor's personality reflecting your choices, an ending that's actually a bit decent, etc.
>>332953150
>>Really? I swear every time I see someone mention it it's in connection with words like 'disappointment' and in threads about 'games no-one liked but you'.
Maybe you should stop browsing reddit. /v/ consistently talks about how underrated it is and generally agree's it's the strongest game of the three Bioshocks.
Even Bioshock 1 fags agree the gameplay improved and only like 1 for the story more, and even that is a debatable point. I much preferred 2's anti communist story than 1's libertarian strawman bullshit. It's like the people who played BS1 had never even heard of free markets and libertarianism before and thought it was some revolutionary idea, yet Ken Levine just turned a butthurt anti libertarian rant filled with strawmen arguments into a game instead of a forum post. BS1's story was much better when it was around Collectivism and Individualism in SS2.
>>332953479
>Eleanor's personality reflecting your choices
This game got moral choices right imo. Instead of it reflecting in the boring author avatar character, it influenced someone else's behavior and your choices were interpreted through their understanding of morality instead of your own
don't worry, it's better than bioshock 1. people will come around in a long time.
>>332953578
It's like the people who played BS1 had never even heard of free markets and libertarianism before and thought it was some revolutionary idea
You got me there! I've always been politically inept and always found the plot and backstory of Bioshock 1 really compelling. Personally I still like 1 more, but that has more to do with the quirks of the game and the memories I have from it, there's no good reason really.
>>332951940
Srsly.
Though the drill was super OP so I guess having more fuel would be cheap.
Though I still want it so a drillmage run would be more fun
>>332953578
i think the praise for one was due to its first implementation of the world of rapture and the stronger commentary regarding it.
Its easy for two to be sound story wise when the rapture was already such a strongly built world that was established in the first game
>>332954312
Okay well I can see BS1 being really interesting for people not into politics at all, and maybe act as a sort of gateway. But for people into it, BS1 was cringeworthy and retarded on many levels.
This is how I imagine Ken Levine explaining the game to his team
>Ken: Okay, what if we have this Ayn Rand Objectivist Libertarian society with free markets and all that shit, but wait, things go wrong!
>Team: Great! Ken that sounds interesting, how do things go wrong though?
>Ken: Ah well, the leader of the society makes these laws and acts like a corrupt dictator and stuff like that you know, seizing power etc
>Team: Wait Ken, I thought you said Libertarian, that system doesn't have a leader, why would he seize power if he founded it to get away from those who seize power, isn't that a massive contradiction
>Ken: Shut the fuck up
Forgive me if I am missing some small details, it's been a while since I played it. But IIRC that's how I remember thinking about it at the time. If he had put more effort into it and made Ryan follow his own ideological rules and show a proper downfall naturally it would have been great. But it was literally shit tier "arguments" that come more from lack of understanding of the subject that any real criticism that made up the games story. It was just disappointing in that aspect.
Of course people latch on to the meta narrative, or say it was a story about Andrew Ryan's lust for power or whatever. But it let itself up as Objectivist and then broke it's own rules to arrive at the Dystopia situation.
I don't get what you mean OP.
I think both Bioshock 1 and 2 are amazing games.
The real horror is game nr. 3, which shall not be mentioned.
>>332949451
actually it's not evil. My favorite ending is killing all 3 of them and saving all sisters. Shame the black lady has to die but if you spare her it's the same ending except lamb lives. Fuck sofia
>>332951217
how was escorting little sisters a bad game play element?
hacking turrets and placing traps in strategic areas was fun and it felt rewarding when you succesflly protected her and got the ADAM reward
>>332947764
It's too short, also you can't backtrack to previous levels.
I'm not saying I want an open world bioshock but being able to move around everywhere adds to the immersion. Also the game itself was beatable in under 15 hours.
>>332955970
yeah Ryan is a shit Objectivist and his market is not free. How could you smuggle in a free market?
>>332955835
But it's all stolen. The plot is SS2 but replace Collectivism with Objectivism as the theme, steal the Art Deco art style from 20's/30's architecture and then set it underwater instead of in space.
>>332949018
>how come none of the shit that happens in bioshock 2 was ever mentioned in the first game?
It's what happens when a sequel is made.
>>332956186
There was no point in going back to levels in bio 1 unless you missed shit on the first pass
>>332948253
Basically, the writers said to themselves "we need to make another bioshock" and found a way to hamfist in another game. The thing is, after Bioshock 1 Rapture should have either folded entirely or the civil war would have ended. The ADAM/big daddy production lines were all fucked since all the employees were dead (courtesy of Jack) so the writers had to figure out how to do it all over again.
>>332956087
I like the neutral Sofia lives ending because Eleanor is like "She gets to live knowing that she failed and I am my own person."
It was satisfying.
But seriously the neutral ending is the best ending.
I usually only ever see people say good things about this game.
Maybe not as good as the first Bioshock in terms of story, but absolutely shits all over Infinite.
>>332949451
>tfw people actually try to defend sparing Gil
>>332956345
Well from the announcement for the game, it seems like they were seriously going for more than just "another bioshock"
The way they talked, you were actually gonna feel what it was like to be a big daddy, like the ones you fight, nearly invulnerable to random splicers, only having to worry when they started teaming up on you.
And Im sad we never got the Nemesis-esque single Big Sister who hounds you the whole game
>>332947764
BS1 had better atmosphere but BS2 has better gameplay. Stories are a toss-up, no idea why BS1's story gets so much praise it was mediocre and the whole "wood ya koindly" bullshit was just fucking lazy and stupid.
>>332952368
>What are you talking about? /v/ overwhelmingly likes BS2 over 1, has done so for years at this point? Only faggot hipsters like 1 over 2.
/v/ isn't one person and for the most part most people here consider bioshock 1/2 on parity with each other now that infinite has poisoned the series
>>332956338
I missed most of the little sisters/big daddies because I wanted to get super OP before I took them on. Also being able to go back to Fort Frolic to kill Cohen for his door code was a lot of fun and there should have been more of that.
I love it. It was the first Bioshock game I played. Then I tried to play the first one and just couldn't get into it. Everything about the second game is just better.
>>332956579
Levine also wanted to have the prologue of the game set during Rapture's construction, and give players the ability to walk outside to complete objectives. The final level (fontaine futuristics/peresphone) was originally supposed to be mostly outside fighting ADAM-infected creatures.
BS2 is alright at as a game and the story is passable but it's not what I would call "good".
>>332957134
I'd say its good.
Gameplay is greatly improved. Levels are generally cool, plot is alright, better multiple endings than 1 had, Eleanor was great
>>332951217
I thought the multiplayer was really fun to be honest, just dead as fuck
>>332956884
Playing with helmet view mode makes it the comfiest game ever.
>>332952916
>Like Ryan had no reason to talk about some person who knew years previously to you
Except said person was HUGE in all of Rapture to the point that people were protesting and there were signs everywhere about her. The fact she's not even mentioned in 1 is absurd when you take this into account.
>>332957804
she was put in jail and took it over, she only started taking over the city once ryan and atlas/fontaine were out of the picture
>>332957804
Because she was jailed and made to disappear. I honestly don't care to discuss this "point" any further because it's beyond autistic. Introducing new elements to a story to expand on the universe has always been a thing, and if you don't do it you run out of content or get into rehash territory.
The opposite is some side character suddenly gets retconned to be super important later on and that can be cringeworthy levels of bad too.
Note, not all just random inserting new elements can be good. Everything can be done well, everything can be done badly. I think BS2 handled it well enough. It's only because hipsters held BS1 up as some holy grail of gaming and as "art" that suddenly the very idea of a sequel became taboo. This is just an extension of that hipsterdom to sequel plot structures.
Bioshock 2 is just Bioshock 1: Custody Battle edition
>>332947764
>Every time I see it mentioned on /v/ it's in negative context.
We must've seen different Bioshock 2 threads then.
>>332957804
Canon ending of Bioshock is the player leaving rapture with little sisters and reaching the surface. You can fill the blanks with whatever you want to make up for it. Lamb was in jail and had no power since Ryan and Atlas were more charming and people prefered following them, they only turned to Lamb when there was nothing more. In my headanon protag in 1 had to run away with the little sisters because the splicers controled by Lamb went after them and he left in a hurry so some girls were left behind.
2 had better feels in general. The neutral ending is sad as fuck.
>>332958943
>Canon ending of Bioshock is the player leaving rapture with little sisters and reaching the surface
There is no canon ending. The Splicers talking near the beginning of Bioshock 2 confirms this.
>>332959082
I don't remember that. But if the bad ending is canon then protag should be in rapture and running shit.
>>332959384
With nukes cant forget about that. So I'd say good endings prob canon anyways. Though 2 canon might be put into question with BS Inifinshit DLC on the worlds most inefficient way of making a Big Daddy
>>332959384
Why would Jack want to run a city that's busted and falling apart?
>>332959384
Theres two splicers who both talk about what they heard happened to Jack. one says that he heard jack escaped with the little sisters, while the other heard he became a super splicer leader guy preparing to lead an army against the surface or something.
>>332960156
Well if he went up in arms then the splicers would follow him and the city would be abandoned,he's their leader after all and he controls the adam. Or he would be using rapture as a base of operations since no one knows that it exists. In both cases there would be a war state going on but in Rapture there's nothing happening beyond the dumb cult.
>>332947764
The main problem with the game is that they put you in the shoes of a Big Daddy. That completely removes the fear factor of being a vulnerable human in an unfamiliar place like you were in the first game. Big Daddies are no longer scary because you are one now. You are not vulnerable anymore.
I always felt during the first game that Jack could become a splicer at any moment-that he could succumb to Rapture's corruption.
You just don't get that with the second game.
>>332960819
>I always felt during the first game that Jack could become a splicer at any moment-that he could succumb to Rapture's corruption.
Really dude?
>>332960947
Well, human corruption and all that.
And actually, you do get the option of having the splicer mentality throughout the game through the harvest function and the bad ending.
>>332960947
To add, I always felt that that was the point of Bioshock: that when let truly free and put in a form of utopia envisioned by the creator (in this case Andrew Ryan), things end up being dystopian, because human corruption and greed ruins it. And that's what happens in Bioshock. The corrupting influence of ADAM on the population turns them into splicers.
Not to sound like a pretentious twat or anything.
>>332961043
I wanted to see his face, especially after going throught that big daddy operation. Poor fuckr couldn't even talk after that.
>>332960819
>That completely removes the fear factor of being a vulnerable human in an unfamiliar place like you were in the first game.
Why do people keep saying this shit? You literally had fucking super powers in the the first game. Aside from Drill dash that is no mechanical difference at all between how the games work. Even the Helmet hud is optional.
>Big Daddies are no longer scary because you are one now.
Big Daddies were never scary to begin with. They were always comfy to be around and watch. So long as you didn't walk near their little sister, or literally shoot them. And it was easy enough to set up traps to take them down.
The fights with the Big Sisters in BS2 though got crazy at times, they were much more fun, especially if you got a Big Sister to fight another Big Daddy to death, in a field full of traps you'd set beforehand.
In the second game fellow daddy where even better because it was like meeting another mate, a fellow brother. It was sad having to take down one of your own. I remember teaming up with other daddies in 2 and fighting of splicers together. It was hard for me to kill him later after that brotherhood we forged in battle together.
>You are not vulnerable anymore.
You never were. You were an angel of death in the first game as well as the second.
>>332947764
I couldn't play Bioshock 1 because I hated my characters movement
seriously, how do you guys handle the movement?
>>332960819
You were vulnerable for like ten minutes. Then you picked up a wrench, got lightning in your veins, and used the two of those to murder your way through the next three quarters of the game.
>People unironically think BS2 had better gameplay
>Whole gimmick of being a big daddy fell flat
>big sisters were shit
>streamlined hacking
>free hack darts everywhere
>despite more enemies, encounters were worse
It's shame those great guns can only be used right in the MP.
>>332961671
What do you mean?
>>332947764
I never finished the game because I hated how high the spawn rate was. In Bioshock 1, the only respawning enemies were super weak and easily avoided so you could spend a lot of time just exploring Rapture on your own. In what I played of Bioshock 2 I was never not in combat, between the respawn rate and the little sister escort stuff. Is this a difficulty setting thing, or is the game just like that?
>>332961842
The change in hacking was a good thing. Kept gameplay rolling, its not like pipe minigames are fun. And since it was in real time, if you wanted to hack a turret or camera in the middle of a fight, you had to do it fast so you didn't get killed in the process
Big sisters could have been better but they were fine. Especially the 2v1 fight at the end
>>332961858
I've never felt more like a floating blob than in Bioshock.
feels like you're a floating blob with no friction or acceleration though. a slow floating blob with no friction and acceleration.
>>332956468O-parts Hunter: 666 Satan. Such an underrated manga.Polite Sage for off-topic.
>>332961389
Big Sister fights were great, I'll give the game that. They were tough as hell, though.
My problem with Bioshock is that there's no real penalty for dying. You can hit a Big Daddy with a wrench, die, and then rinse and repeat until he's dead.
I know System Shock 1 and 2 had that too, but the enemies were harder in those games, in my opinion. Also, enemies didn't have the same amount of health they had before they killed you in those games either.
>>332961995
>hacking should be 1.2.3 done
Every time.
Bioshock isn't Serious Sam, it always /intended/ being cautious over constantly moving.Whether or not it succeeded is another debate.
Not liking the pipse != worse mechanic.
Pipes were objectively better than Hacking Hero.
I should really just get a pasta together because I always end up saying these same things.
>>332961842
Wrong or shit taste on literally every point
>actually prefering that shit hacking mini game in BS1 over the much better BS2 hacking
>not liking the enhanced mobility off Big Sisters
>not feeling a much bigger connection to the world and other big daddies especially since you are a part of it now
Seriously, every time I saw a Big Daddy in 2 I knew exactly how he felt. And I respectfully stayed away from his little sister because I knew exactly what he though of her. He was just like me wanting to protect his cute little sister from the splicers. Felt so sad for them and a genuine connection. Killing them to go loli collecting was so sad. Had more feels doing that, than anything in BS1. The big daddy thing was amazingly well done, and anyone who thinks you should have been another generic human protagonist is just a retarded pleb with shit taste. Playing as a big daddy was awesome.
>>332962286
>playing with vita chambers on
Jesus fuck you sicken me
>>332962286
>My problem with Bioshock is that there's no real penalty for dying. You can hit a Big Daddy with a wrench, die, and then rinse and repeat until he's dead.
But that is in BS1 as well. Also I honestly never used the vita chamber feature. I don't know why they even included the whole concept aside from being in line with SS. The only use I saw for it was plotwise to have the BS2 protagonist be brought back to life through a chamber which was pretty cool melding of gameplay mechanics with story I thought.
I played it like any other game. If I died, I reloaded last save. Using vita chambers just felt like cheating.
Completed this once on midnight release, forgot I have the Minerva's Den DLC, is it worth doing another playthrough for the DLC?
>>332961803
>lightning in your veins
I feel like I've heard this line somewhere before
>>332962498
You weren't even a cool Big Daddy, though. You were the prototype version, not the cool ones like pic related.
>>332962498
>>not liking the enhanced mobility off Big Sisters
Big Sisters were great before you actually fought them.
Big Daddies were great before and after because thought actually went into them.
>>not feeling a much bigger connection to the world and other big daddies especially since you are a part of it now
Oh boy. BS2 didn't know what it wanted to be. Every thing in the game points to this. They tried to be their own game, while mimicking what made BS1 great, succeeded at some, failed at others. Causing BS2 to be the weird clusterfuck.
I felt more connection to them in one because the relationship was better.
In two they had no idea how to balance and implement being one, properly.
>I knew exactly how he felt.
Yes, they demonstrated BD-LS just fine in 1?
I really don't understand this contrarian bullshit you people have with clinging to two.
>>332962648
You can turn that shit off? I never even knew.
Honestly, I'm thankful for them in System Shock, but in Bioshock it's just stupid.
>>332962924
Oh for fucks sake who cares, it's first person, you can't even see yourself.
All the different big daddy types looked good anyways.
>>332947764
>Bioshock 2
I don't recall any major issues with it outside a slight degradation of the story. I did enjoy the tweaks they made to the combat. The level design lent it self better to play, but didn't feel like plausible locations a lot of the time.
It was Infinite and its waifu pandering and refusal to have a coherent story that got everybody's panties in a wad.
I actually always feel really bad killing Big Daddies.
I mean, just the way the Little Sister cries over his dead body and the fact that he's just trying to protect her.
>>332963031
No examples and just making shit up.
BS1 fans are honestly pathetic sometimes. I played both games back to back, after both had been out for a few years and 2 was a wholely superior experience. I am convinced BS1 fags who played on release bought unto the hype and all the media attention surrounding the game, and were biased against BS2 from the outset. The points you bring up against it are grasping at straws tier points.
How about you read this thread and realize BS1 is literally a hacked together shitty remake of SS2. And that BS2 is an original story that isn't a one for one copy of a previous title. The only thing BS2 reuses is the setting.
BS1 stole the plot of SS2 and dumbed it down and added plot holes
BS1 stole the gameplay and level structure of SS2 and dumbed it down for consoles and casuals
BS1's only "original" feature is the setting, and underwater art deco city.
BS2 has it's own original, brand new plot that is much more personal and involved that 2 and isn't just talking heads over radio the whole time
BS2 improved and repaired the gameplay and level design to reform it back to SS2 levels almost
BS2 only copied the setting of BS1
BS2 is a more original game than 1 is. BS1 is a shitty rip off, 2 is true art.
Loved it. Start to finish.
>>332963783
>remake of SS2
>an entire different setting with a unique story
You know why it's so similar to System Shock, anon? Get this......it's a spiritual successor! Shocking, I know, right?
>>332963337
>It was Infinite and its waifu pandering and refusal to have a coherent story that got everybody's panties in a wad.
Infinites story is clear.
The logic of some of the nodes that make up this story are the problem.
>>332963783
Examples of what?
> And that BS2 is an original story that isn't a one for one copy of a previous title.
It literally just rehashes Lamb's subplot from one with some near fanfic.
>BS1 wasn't the SS3 I hoped for even though it was clearly started BS was a spiritual successor which is a loose term for "inspired by".
Yeah we get it, that's not a valid complaint.
BS2 did:
MP - even though it had its own problems
The Elephant gun
Augustus Sinclair
The idea of trap rivets, even though the concept has been done.
That's it.
Bioshock 2 sold nearly as good as the first and had higher sales that infinite. How come? Cause it was a pretty decent game. Nothing horribly wrong with it.
>>332963960
>>332964193
It's literally a soft remake. The story, plot, twist, all the same. Levine just changed the theme from collectivism to objectivism, and set it underwater and called it a day.
Game is great enjoyed the hell out of it and the dlc on the 360,shame my PC version crashes alot.
>>332964389
>a soft remake.
Yes, spiritual successor which is again, INSPIRATION.
There is no stipulation that it must be X Y or Z of GAME.
Just because you don't like that it's not a 1:1 of your beloved game does not take way from its value.
>>332947764
>m-muh twist
Bioshock 2 is perfectly fine. The only reason people complained about the story was that it didn't have le ebik twist followed by an hour of pure shit like the first game did.
>>332964624
we dislike that it's way too much of a 1:1
>>332964624
Also if you really want to do this.
Ryan is an impossibly better antag than Shodan.
The build up and relationship is better.
The encounter and ending of protag-antag is better.
If you want to play SS2 go play it.
>>332964789
It's really not.
That's just confirmation bias.
>>332964624
BS1 is to SS2, what Jurassic World is to Jurassic Park. It's literally a soft remake that was worse than the original.
>Just because you don't like that it's not a 1:1
I wanted it to be more original. I like 2 better than 1 because it isn't afraid to do it's own thing, BS1 was obsessed with retreading what SS2 already did.
I guess i'll replay this shit once the collection is out if it doesn't have denuvo.
Didn't know much about how dumb randians are when i played the first one so it'll be nice seeing just how it parodies her bullshit.
Never played 2 but i heard the minerva dlc is good, although it's made by the gone home fags so you're not allowed to like it here.
>>332964728
And Lamb was a shit antag.
Every major character was a fraction of 1's.
And the game being immensely short.
>>332965041
>I guess i'll replay this shit once the collection
You what?
BT constantly goes on sale for like $5 or less.
And yes Minerva is GOAT.
>>332964858
>Ryan is an impossibly better antag than Shodan.
Jesus Christ just kill yourself holy shit I've never seen so much bad taste in one post before.
Shodan is leagues above the literal strawman of a character that is Andrew Ryan. Ryan literally dies halfway through the game and is forgotten about for a gimmicky Irish fellow who suddenly turns into a sleazy drawling American about a minute after his death.
Ryan is the most overrated character in the entire Bioshock series.
>>332964858
>Ryan is an impossibly better antag than Shodan
Take that back immediately, sir. The original System Shock (haven't played much of 2) had some of the creepiest and chilling SHODAN audio logs. Her voice, her constant taunting of you, the traps she sets, and her general personality outclass Andrew Ryan by far.
>>332965093
Lamb was better than Ryan. Ryan's actions made no sense, he's a fucking retard.
Lamb was consistent and was basically the modern bitchy mother who takes everything in a marriage breakup via the states authority, put into a video game and made into a villain. She's great, and I fucking loved to hate that fucking bitch so much.
Also I took longer to finish BS2 than I did BS1. You must have rushed through it.
>>332965276
>the literal strawman of a character that is Andrew Ryan.
And Shodan is literally the stereotype of every rogue AI story.
>>332965402
She's a boring character.
Crazy degrading AI is boring.
>>332965502
>Ryan's actions made no sense
how so?
>>332965263
There's a 'remaster' collection of 1 2 and infinite coming out soon, right?
Wonder if they'll fix the fov in the pc ver..bhahahahaha sorry couldn't even finish that thought.
>>332965662
>if they'll fix the fov
?
I just like 2 because the gameplay is more fun, the weapons feel kickass and you get an assload of dad feels. It kicks me right in the cardiovascular area.
>>332965789
FOV in the pc version is awful and cuts off most of the viewmodel, especially for 16:10 users, they never fixed it. PC players here were mad as hell when it came out.
>>332957286
Played it today, a russian dude who play it since GFWL hacked the shit out of it.
He's invincible, spawns turrets on doorsteps to block the pass, can spawn bunch of daddies and other stuff.
After this even autokill hack seems not that bad.
If only 2K could fix it and make a rebalance. Many people still play it, also there are always newcomers after sales.
But I guess it's pretty hard to ask them about this, only through petitions or some shit like that.
>>332965578
>And Shodan is literally the stereotype of every rogue AI story.
And Ryan isn't a stereotypical dictator/revulotionary who takes power then turns bad
>Ryan's actions made no sense
>how so?
Because he didn't even follow his own ideology or rules. The entire story doesn't make sense at all. It's so retarded. Why did Ryan start introducing regulations that made smuggling a necessity if he wanted a free market society? Why did he become a dictator of Rapture, maybe if they had done this through corporate power, but it mainly shows him acting like a fucking administrator of rapture, or the owner, and he's just dictating away. So fucking retarded and shows Levine knows jack shit about the idealogy he is heavily featuring in his games.
Andrew Ryan is literally one of the worst written characters in history. He's the epitome of "character makes dumb stupid decision because it's more dramatic and allows the story to go where the writer wants it to go even if it makes no logical sense".
Shodan was brilliantly done however. I don't care if you don't like AI's, she's a well done character.
>>332965578
How is she boring? Yes, the rogue AI thing is overdone now, but in 1994 this kind of thing wasn't seen often.
There hasn't been a game or movie to do it better either.
Seriously, listen to her audiologs in the original System Shock. How can you listen to them and then still call her boring?
The voice actress who played her did a fantastic job too, even before all the audio alterations, as shown in the intro where SHODAN speaks normally and the first pre-recorded audiolog where she welcomes you to Citadel Station.
>>332966047
>who takes power then turns bad
Ryan never turned bad, he just didn't know how to regain power once Atlas started fragmenting his city.
>Why did Ryan start introducing regulations that made smuggling a necessity
He didn't, that was Just Atlas getting his foot in.
>Why did he become a dictator of Rapture, maybe if they had done this through corporate power, but it mainly shows him acting like a fucking administrator of rapture, or the owner, and he's just dictating away
He implicitly states things go his way because he was confident his ideals were better than the surface.
Rapture was basically his idea of communism done right with a few more ideals sprinkled on.
>>332966562
You're getting away from the original argument.
>>332966863
Sorry, I tend to go off on tangents.
>>332966945
But yeah Shodan's character and VA performance were stellar don't get me wrong.
But saying Ryan was 1 dimensional and then stating otherwise for Shodan is wrong.
>>332966863
>regain power
Why did he have any in the first place. Why was he so threatened by Atlas gaining a monopoly, the very thing he left the surface world over, so he could create business without regulation. He then tries to regulate Atlas's businesses.
>communism
No BS1 is about Objectivism, free markets and Libertarianism. Might seem like communism though since Levine fucked it up so hard.
>>332967052
I didn't say he was one-dimensional, I just said that SHODAN is a better villain, in my opinion, and that she has a more interesting personality.
>>332966863
Can I just say here: Communism? I always thought that Andrew Ryan was trying to create a Libertarian paradise, especially when he says in the beginning "Is a man not entitled to the sweat on his brow?" (paraphrasing, probably), which I took to mean "is a man not entitled to his full income, free of taxes?"
>>332967197
>Why did he have any in the first place.
Do you not understand how Rapture came about?
Ryan solely funded everything with his own empire's money.
You don't do that kind of thing and not be authoritarian.
He beloved in freedom wanted prosperity, but also knew it couldn't survive without an iron fist.
Basically muh ego.
>No BS1 is about Objectivism
no, it's just a factor.
>>332967583
I guess it's open to interpretation, but the US and Russia were his main factors in creating Rapture, so a combination of their policies and lack of is what I thought.
But yeah different opinions
>>332967837
If you explain it away like that with your headcanon, it becomes more acceptable. But that isn't what the game or Levine did. They shilled it away as objectivism and it doesn't work as that at all.
They probably shouldn't have made the plot rely so much on being a deconstruction of objectivism. BS2 is better because it doesn't rely on any stupid meta narrative or deconstruction focus as well.
>>332968287
>my headcanon isobjective, yours isn't
That's not how that works.
Dismissing and simplifying it as just one thing because your ill opinion, is wrong.
