How do we fix the innate problem of MOBAs, which is the ridiculous team dependency? Five strangers simply cannot coordinate efficiently, and matches boil down to hero picks and the counters therein.
Play with friends is the obvious answer, of course, but I am specifically looking for answers that would make MOBAs a viable genre for solo/less than 5 stack play
>playing MOBAS
I have an idea. What if instead of 5 different players, you had just one player controlling all 5 heroes?
Or maybe they don't have to be heroes and can just be regular soldiers, and you can control more than 5 of them. Maybe, like, a dozen of them! Or maybe a hundred! And instead of a pre-built base you can build your own base too!
Has anyone ever made a game like that?
MOBAs were not designed for random strangers on a team, it was designed for people on a fucking team. Hence why Esports is so fucking popular for the MOBA genre.
>>332943325
Team dependency is the only reason people play these games. It satisfies their desire to fill a niche and gives them other people to blame for their failures when they lose.
>>332943707
kek. I would definately play that anon. :) Maybe also make it 18+ only so at least some underage shitters cannot shit it all up.
>>332943923
>Maybe also make it 18+ only so at least some underage shitters cannot shit it all up.
Then how will be able to play it?
>>332943707
perfect
why didn't anyone make this yet?
Everybody gets a lane, you cannot leave your lane or go to other ones.
You win if the majority of players on your team win their lane.
>>332944097
That would just make the dependency even worse, since you couldn't even help the fuckups on your team.
>>332944097
then what is even the point of having it be anything other than 1v1?
>>332943707
This is utter madness!
>>332943707
Now we're going places. If only this dream game existed.
>>332944097
that's basically LoL in a nutshell
you stay in your lane until 20 minutes or so and whichever team wins the most lanes gets to rush down one lane and win.
>>332943707
>le ebin RTS poster
Okay, so. See this?
>>332945126
That's a football.
>>332945184
it's a stone, luigi, you didn't make it
>>332945126
Turn it into this.
>>332945126
Smite's map?
There's nothing wrong with the type of game other than its rather over saturated now.
I would still love to see a type of RTS/Moba hybrid (which is an odd statement given the Mobas origin) where it has standard 5v5 heroes matches, 5v5 rts/commander matches and 6v6 where each side has a commander and 5 heroes each being player controlled. Heroes claim objective areas while the commander provides units and defenses.
You could have normal rts maps, as well as auto lane maps like a moba, where you can stagger your lanes or build special creeps/mercenary units the commander can use.
Make a game called dawngate.it still hurts
>>332943325
Make them so you can control more than 1 character..... errr reverting back to a rts.
>>332945410
Dota 2 already does this
Simple.
Game is won or lost based on the performance of your team's leader. Everyone can contribute to that score by feeding them kills and otherwise supporting them (maybe have them slowly accrue points just by staying alive, disabled in safe areas ofc, so healing and protecting them becomes a vital part of the game) while also allowing the players with high individual skill to shine. Applying to be the leader happens before matches begin and requires a certain rating for you to be eligible.
Play an RTS instead? MOBAs are pretty much designed from the ground up to be team games. Just play a different game if you want to play solo, but be aware that you won't have anyone to blame when you lose.
A vertical ASSFAGGOT. Hear me out.
Top lane is highest, most direct route to enemy base. Middle route is squiggly, bottom route is long but gives players immediate access to jungle at the bottom level. Players rotate by jumping from higher levels onto lower levels, they could use jetpacks or something I don't know. And players at the lower levels use said jetpacks/ jump pads/ whatever to rotate to top.
Players have to defend the top lane since it's incredibly important. Rotating down is faster than rotating up so any team that had top control could both move around much more quickly and attack the enemy base much faster. However the bottom and middle route is where the buffs/powerups are necessitating fast movement across lanes in response to enemy activity rather than just planting yourself in a lane and sitting there for 20 minutes.
Have you tried not playing games you don't like?
Add a third team.
5v5v5
Midlanes of all three teams meet in some nexus point.
Clockwise lane leads to Opponent Team 1, Counter Clock leads to Opponent Team 2.
>>332945376
>RTS/MOBA hybrid
Why not just a MOBA with RTS elements?
>Match is made, pick your heroes
>Gather resources and build up your base
>Build the lanes and lane tower
>Have to queue up and produce the minions and if you run out of (insert resource here), then you stop auto-producing minions
>Can make miners and shit to gather automatically, but these could get bombed by enemy
>>332943707
That's actually a good idea...
I made pic related as a 3 team gamemode but never got around to finishing it because it was back before the source 2 update. The creeps are supposed to alternate between taking the inner and outer lane paths so they'd keep pressure on both bases.
Roshan on a mountain in the middle and 3 runes in the circling lake
side shops are in the middle of the lanes in lower part of the land.
When I've got a new PC I might try it again.
I'm more curious for how it would work as 1 team gets a lead would the other 2 be smart enough to temporarily team up to try and stop them. It would make offensive plays far riskier for the single team but more rewarding for both opposing teams.
>How do we fix the innate problem of MOBAs?
>>332943325
Doing what HotS does helps, in most MOBAs the way to a strong hero is by almost being completely separate from your team from long periods of time. In HotS you literally can't win most games if you don't help out on team objectives and all of the xp you soaked by sitting in a lane is pointless.
Forcing team coordination and dependency makes players help each other out.
>>332945781
looks neat
respect for making something new and genuinely interesting
>>332945514
If a game with 5 random assholes vs 5 random assholes relies on 1 random asshole to be the best, then everyone would try to be the 1 random asshole.
So more bitching about kill stealing etc. Nice try
>>332943325
If North Korea attacks the south, they will both wipe the main ASSFAGGOTS scene, and serve as the setting for a new Red Alert.
There, RTS saved.
Wait...Oh.
>>332945781
seems cool but it will always be unbalanced because there will never be an even amount of effort into beating both teams equally
>>332943325
You can't fix it, see >>332943819
ASSFAGGOTS were made and balanced to be played in a team setting, not with random people.
>>332945825
>play another moba, possibly lose because faggot mcgee wants to go farm a wave instead of helping at the objective
>play hots, definitely lose when that happens because you can't get ahead
nah
>>332945626
I like this, reminds me of a mixture of SMNC (with the Jungle and shit sometimes above or below the main lanes) and Awesomenauts in terms of vertical importance.
Also,
>Bot late gives immediate Jungle access
Just jump off from any lane and you're in the jungle. If there's fall damage, then lane swapping would be a nightmare too.
>>332944486
Nah. Increased death timers means late game comes around 25-30 minutes. Losing a teamfight at 20 minutes makes you lose 2 towers, dragon, and possibly an inhibitor. Towers are weaker and deal less damage.
It's now farm for 10 minutes and try not to die or else you lose 2 towers before you can respawn.
>less than 5 stack
there's your problem right there that's simply not what the genre is meant for.
truly fixing it is easy. remove solo queues. only 5 man matchmaking and private servers. perma-ban every noobshit feeder from matchmaking.
>>332944050
I guess Will's gonna have to wait
>>332945947
Did you even read the post? Applying for the leader position happens before actually getting into a game. It would be a tickbox near the queue button or something. And not everyone could be the leader because there would be a fairly high rating gate for applying to the position, not to mention that matchmaking would of course choose only two per match.
>>332945781
>>332946064
Replace "destroying the enemy base" with "capture the enemy base and hold it."
So you gotta capture and hold both of the enemy bases simultaneously.
League of Legends:
Ruby Sightstone allows you have 4 wards on the map instead of 3. You get 5 charges instead of 4.
If you keep your ward totem trinket, your pinks regenerate HP over time and if you upgrade it you can have 2 pinks.
fuck stealth and fuck brushes
>>332945781
>>332946350
And to expand on the idea I was thinking 1 team vs another team while you gotta conquer the whole area but there is a time limit and if some how you are tied in bases the win condition becomes which team has the most kills if that is tied it goes into over time and nobody will be able to respawn
>>332946458
>please remove toxic fog of war entirely its too hard
league players everyone
>>332946064
Well thats the thing. its a 4 lane game as opposed to 3 so you'd have 3 lanes with a single hero and one with 2 heros on it.
Then when a barrack is destroyed it pushes megacreeps out which puts more pressure onto the other base that share the lanes creeps. removing both opposing barracks of a lane makes super creeps and then all enemy barracks of both lanes is ultra creeps.
One team getting hit will affect the other, also the team that gets the last hit on any towers/barracks would get full cash, the other team with get half.
>>332946350
That would be hell to do, splitting the team up to finish it off causes too much trouble.
Imagine a champion that can shield pets, traps, and wards.
Don't solo queue in a team game. Go play starcraft or a fighting game.
Exactly the same, but at one minute in the game truly begins.
After one minute, at exactly every minute of continuous play the person with the highest percentage of their health still remaining will be instantly killed. This is based on percentage, so even if you're a tanky character as long as you have 25% of your HP remaining and some glass cannon mage has 26% they will die.
To keep players from simply allowing jungle monsters to do damage so that they can get a low percentage of their hp before the minute mark, any player that takes damage from a jungle monster will immediately show up on the enemy teams minimap. On top of this, at the ten minute mark the timer begins killing players off at 30 second intervals rather than a full minute. Health potions are replaced with damage potions. Mana potions are replaced with poisons that, when thrown at an enemy player will instead raise their HP dramatically. When you die you lose all the gold you currently had. Also the more damage you take the more your characters clothing begins to deteriorate until it eventually falls off.
It's a game that encourages players to live dangerously and on the edge. No pussies allowed
>>332943325
Make it a three-team thing, with only one winner. Diplomacy plus paranoia 24/7. This will restore the thrill of the game.
Turn it into a 6v6. Reasons below.
Make every game have a pre-set small amount of heroes, like a TF2 team, instead of the gigantic character rosters. Then make their abilities only work properly when others are nearby, like "if there is X ally near you, you deal extra effect and % dmg", with three of the people being tanky, the other part being supporty, with no pure carry damages. Only by sticking by twos would they work.
Add verticality or other form of lane fluidity. An anon in the thread proposed lane-above-lane approach, might work.
Match people by personal performance instead of bracket based on team wins. Only those who excel in one skill bracket as players would spill over into the next, rather than play qualifiers to do so, removing the need of the others to be good in order to personally progress.
There you go.
>>332943325
Make it so people dont take so long to kill
Maybe get health back on kill
Attacks can attack multiple targets
>>332946772
Holy fuck you're a mad manI really want to play your game
>>332946904
Forgot to add, a brackey may have only a set % of people, thus someone who is the worst in a bracket will fall off to the previous one when every month the tally is made, or when in the end of the day the % is recalculated. They will be no "I got there, now I can stop playing" case.
>>332946904
Barring the 3 lane thing, you would have liked monday night combat
>>332945328
Wat
That's just silly
>20 player matches
>>332945781
Of it's anything like the Advance Wars games I played in high school it will never end. As soon as one team gets the lead the other two team up to beat him back.
Only two paths to victory here: either become more powerful than both enemy teams combined without them noticing (likely impossible) or form an early alliance with another team to wipe out the third and then fight 1v1 after. An alliance that could easily be broken if your partner sees you getting more powerful than he is. The guy in third place has no choice but to ally with anyone who's interested since that's the only way he can stay alive.
>>332947130
Think about it.
>have to defend in two directions
>all the important comms as 9 other retards on your team all ping the boss pit as it comes up and you're underlevelled by a lot
>>332946684
One could argue that CS is a team game too, but personal skill can still allow you to come out on top when faced with insurmountable odds.
The mechanics of most MOBAs simply do not allow this. There is a hard cap on how far your own skill can take you before you need to fall back on your team, and if that team sucks, you will lose the game and it is frustrating especially when you did everything by the book.
So the question is, can anything be done to the mechanics to allow for individual skill to have a greater impact, while still maintaining the need for a team effort?
>>332947095
thanks, I had an idea for an erotic Moba at one point but it was impossible to come up with good ideas so I scrapped it and kept the deteriorating clothing
>>332943325
The only way to make ASSFAGGOTS less team dependent is to make power come from execution rather than stats
Most games in the genre you farm mobs to get gold and experience, which give you high enough stats to kill enemies more and more successfully. Unfortunately there's a threshold to how much statistical power you can have, because the enemy team must always have a way to shut you down. So by design there's a limit to how much you can do by yourself.
In FPS games and other similar multiplayer games, player progression is measure in killstreaks. You may gain some kind of better weapons and perks the better you are doing, but you can be stopped by a single kill. The difference here is that it is entirely in your power to use your skill to avoid death and keep using your power to dominate the enemy team.
The simplest solution would be to do something in which progression is measured less by stat checks like "+100 INT" and "+10% health damage" and more by secondary effects like "attacks splash to other enemies for 50% damage" and "ability now stuns for 2 sec"Kind of like what Gigantic does
>>332947187
See I was hoping you'd bring something like that up. I drew up a system where every kill on anything against a team would result in a small buff that made you more effective against that same team, but also making you you more vulnerable to the opposite team. killing the other team reversed this effect until you had the 2nd team as the higher effectiveness and the original be your weakness.
It would be an individual hero buff so you could have half your team good at killing team A and the other half good at killing team B.
Shits complicated though.
>>332943325
>How do we fix the innate problem of MOBAs, which is the ridiculous team dependency?
Learn to adapt. Team dependency with randoms is a feature, not a problem.
>>332947508
Why not just "gear deterioration?"
As time passes and through certain items enemies can use on you, your purchased items decay over time and eventually break, meaning you need to replace them. Allows for "starter" items to be overall more effective and after you've used them up, they automatically go away for a new slot, once you no longer need them.
And then make everyone a semi-generic with modifications female model and give them actual visual art from the items they use.
Why is this shit an esport? MOBAs are boring as fuck to watch
Fix LoL: Inhibitors stay destroyed. Map size increased and more paths added to jungles. Remove Flash and add Deathfire Grasp.
Fix Dota2: Nerf Invoker.
Fix HotS: Uninstall.exe
>>332947958
high level dota is pretty interesting to watch, but LoL is boring at all levels.
>>332943325
nothing to fix.
genre will die down within a decade.
>>332947707
This.
All items are either consumables or actives, no passive stat bonuses, since stats do not exist.
Damage is normalized between archetypes (All tanks deal the same amount of damage, All assassins deal the same amount of damage which is more than tanks however etc.). Same goes with HP.
Finally, perhaps most importantly, the game should do nothing for the player. What this means is that there should be no targeted abilities which the player only needs to click on the desired target and the game does the rest. Everything, down to basic attacks, should be skillshots.
>>332947992
Deathfire Grasp got removed forever ago.Flash has already ruined the game beyond belief and they're too lazy to fix the game without flash.
>>332943325
>Five strangers simply cannot coordinate efficiently
Then don't play with randoms, retard
>>332943325
>Playing MOBAs solo
They are literally only fun with a group of friends
Make all players bots, players can only buy stuff for them anymore
>>332948513
>>332943325
the fuck is up with those T s
>>332948513
>Gladiatorial arena game where players have no control over the fight, but can use money gained from their fighter winning matches to buy weapons to be thrown in the ring and other events, such as releasing lions etc.
FUCKING FUND IT
How do we remove the innate problem of football, which is the ridiculous team dependency? Eleven strangers simply cannot coordinate efficiently, and matches boil down to position picks and the counters therein.
Play with friends is the obvious answer, of course, but i am specifically looking for answers that would make football a viable sport for solo/less than 11 stack play
Okay, what if...
>take the concept of the Hunger Games
>Put it in a MOBA format
>24 man games FFA/teams of 2
>health pools are high, but no regen outside of special consumables for a bit
>Random items spawn in the center
>Jungle (the whole map) is filled with various beast camps, some completely passive, some hyper-aggressive and everything inbetween, scaling XP and gold accordingly
>There are a few "secret shops" about the map, shit's expensive.
>The cornucopia or whatever you call the center refills with items every 10 minutes
>Events happen every 15, ranging from generic "everything is on fire!" to shrinking arena size to "poisonous snakes rain from the sky!"
>Dead players are turned into "sponsors" who passively accumulate money after they die to airdrop gifts and "surprises" to whomever they want
>See a pack fighting in the center
>airdrop an explosive payload
Blah blah blah.
>>332947992
>Fix Dota2: Nerf Invoker.
I'm not big on Invoker but what's wrong with him? I just finished a match with an invoker on my team and he was nothing special, if I had to do something to him I wouldmute by default because it's always the Invoker the one talking shit, don't care if playing him takes balls or skill, if he's so good why can't anyone walk the talk?
>>332948635
This could be a new type of moba.
Teams of two, one fights in the arena, one manages and buys stuff
>>332949009
pretty sure a game like that already exists/is in development but I forgot the name
>>332949293
The Culling. It's not exactly a MOBA though, just an FPS with mostly melee/primitive weapon focus.
>>332948513
>>332948635
>>332949139
The one in the first post is more of a "gladiator management simulator."
Although the idea of two man vs. is appealing.
>Manager handles the crowds and funds to get you what you need to slit the enemy's throat or kill them
>Gladiator drums up funds by doing well and killing people
>Put people in miniature "tourneys" and your shit carries over between matches
>Matches all go simultaneously and next rounds start when all teams have finished, you can watch other matches while you wait
>>332943325
>the problem of multiplayer games are other people
>>332949293
>>332949394
Yeah, Culling is also trash.
>guy blocks a spear with his fists
>takes normal block damage
Motherfucker, if I stab your arm with a spear, you're going to BLEED.
Plus, ASSFAGGOTS could make for a good basis for that as well.
>>332949543
There's FUNC in the game, it could be explained through future lore
Also it's for balance reasons.
If you can't work well with strangers, you deserve to lose your job IRL.
>>332949703
I know it's for balance reasons, but come the fuck on.
>with no perks, unarmed is as equally viable as someone with a T3 spear
It makes no earthly sense and I hate it.
Plus it runs like total dicks on lowest settings cause UE4.
>>332949736
>If you can't work well with someone who doesn't communicate at all, or does so in cyrillics or in portuguese, you deserve to lose your job IRL
>>332949736
you're retarded, its more like people who work in call centres should be amazing at solo queue
>>332945626
ever tried awesomenauts?
>>332945626
Teleports rather than jetpacks would be easier to implement in WC3 and offer more control, less surprise. There are some AoS maps that use teleporting.
>>332949941
>with no perks, unarmed is as equally viable as someone with a T3 spear
viable in blocking, right?
>It makes no earthly sense
>I know it's for balance reasons
>Plus it runs like total dicks on lowest settings cause UE4
pc mustard rice
>>332950026
Good thing today is Autism Awareness Day because you're exhibiting something much more extreme than even that.
>>332950079
IQ plays a huge role in solo queue in ways you probably wouldn't even know.
>>332947325
Remove RNG.
Change command controls for direct controls (clicking to a location for WASD movement, for example), remove "RPG elements" such as miss chances.
Remove in-match grinding/farming.
Even better if also:
Allowed possibility to change class mid match (wouldn't be a problem since there is exp/item grinding).
Allowed to make strategic decision about wave spawns.
Allowed to conquer, retake, upgrade, etc strategic points through the map.
But then it would be an action/strategy game rather than a moba.
You can't really change the formula, it works and is popular because it is like it is, change it and people wouldn't play it.
>tfw creative AoS is dead, only esports competitive AoS remains
>>332950449
>Oh shit, he called out my retardation... I know! I'll call him autistic!
make it roguelike
Instead of a hero you also control and micro a base and the minions. Easier to scale and backpack a team. Lanes and building space restrictions and heroes that manipulate those new mechanics can re invent the subgenre
>>332950571
Dota IMBA is fun
>>332947325
>The mechanics of most MOBAs simply do not allow this. There is a hard cap on how far your own skill can take you before you need to fall back on your team, and if that team sucks, you will lose the game and it is frustrating especially when you did everything by the book.
not dota, at least not as bad as others
>>332950626
Hm? Further showing proof that you have a compromised theory of mind? A theory that isn't relegated to just autism and in some diagnosis affects it more than autism? How quaint. Go back to thinking you're perfect.
>>332950449
the point of solo queue is it doesn't matter how well you do, I guess unless you're the jungler. Even then, if every lane is feeding you're fucked. Wereas if you spent your days in real life explaining to idiots over and over the same shit while trying to keep your cool, you might be able to stop your teammates from doing stupid shit without aggrivating them and just making them worse. Its better to have an average team that communicates than a team of idiots with 1 "high IQ" dude.
>>332943325
turn it into a diablo game
:^) not even joking
>>332950919
Agreed for everything except for explaining IRL. That shit doesn't fly no matter what I do.
>>332950919
What bothers people is that sometimes a person loses because of the others. Despite of what that person did.
Maybe if the game was 1v1, things would be different.
>>332951415
Moba with a betrayal mechanic when
>>332946656
Lee sin?
>>332951415
This happens in every team game, though. You can lost in many team games and have fun, not so much in a MOBA.
That is you are bound by your character rather than your skill, so if you start losing (because of your team) you become a punching bag. And can't leave the game or otherwise you are placed on a black list.
The good part is that if you are winning you can abuse the other team to hell and back, and they can't leave or they get in the black list. So it's not that bad.
>>332951415
What people like is that sometimes a person wins because of the others. Despite of what that person did.
A team game where individual skill matters less will inevitably be more popular than a 1v1 game.
make the teams to armies
100v100
>>332951415
>>332951487
Open world with MOBA shit elements and drop in drop out teaming when?
Also, to any LoL fags, has URF dropped yet? It's the only reason I ever update that game.
Play awesomenauts
>>332951487
in dota you can deny teammates if they have some debuffs on them. just so the enemy doesnt get kill credit and gold/xp
winter wyverns ult causes all nearby enemies to attack the effected target regardless of them being the same team, wyvern would get credit if they do.
>>332946772
Next fucking level
>>332947707
>>332948328
Maybe the two of you should play games not based off of games that are based off of DnD. Stats and dice Rolls are the entire gameplay of DnD, and the systems from Warcraft 3 are based on those concepts.
AoS style maps from starcraft were more like hero brawlers where there weren't items just weird combinations of units that you build from some off-map barracks which decides what ability you do.
>>332951487
>
>>332951943
>You can lost in many team games and have fun, not so much in a MOBA.
Yeah, like in FPS, and you don't have fun losing because losing affects your rank status
>>332951989
>A team game where individual skill matters less will inevitably be more popular than a 1v1 game.
I dunno boss, it requires skills to play fighting games.
>>332952068
>Open world
I like, and no URF yet.
>>332951415
What bothers people is that sometimes a person loses because of the other. Maybe if the game was single player, things would be different
>>332952015
>Hearts of Iron3
>Cossacks
>Worms Armageddon
>Age of Mythology
some good taste
>>332943884
Underrated post
>>332952142
>>332952378
No anon, I mean swapping sides.
It would take you 30s to channel and would leave you vunerable to being attacked by either side. Swapping to a winning team reduces their gold gain as its now split between more people. Swapping to a losing team with less people will grant you a gold bonus and (if the game has it) xp/drop bonus if you win.
You can only swap once a game - If its interrupted, it has a 10 min cooldown and your allies know you wanted to betray them. The team you WANT to swap to can interrupt too to keep their high gold rate.
>>332952515
Yeah but with a 100v100 moba you'd actually have 200 players in the game
if one sucks it doesn't matter, if one stands out he's the star
maybe if you die you can buy stuff not for you but for somebody else during respawn time, amplifying the star effect
It's actually quite easy.
10 player FFA instead of teams.
>>332952673
>let's all change sides to the winning team
>we all win
>we are all happy winners
that's a bit dumb tbqh farn
if the game was like this, there would be no value in ranks
>>332952378
Honestly, open world with the abilities and such of a MOBA would be fun.
>You can team up with people and set up a base basically anywhere
>fags can siege your base if they want or set up their own base and suddenly have a game of ASSFAGGOTS anyone can drop by and bomb
>Have specialized building mechanics to allow for base building and such and artificial "on the fly" fights
>Winners gain account gold and XP to spend in major towns and level up respectively
>Losers just get their base destroyed and get to go on their merry way
>>332943325
>complaining about team dependency in a team-based game
Go play a 1v1 game you mouth breather.
>>332952873
Extra betrayals anon. As I said, they get a bonus for swapping to a losing side. If all the shit players swap sides, the good players in the original winning team can swap, netting a bonus - With everyone now out of their 1 betrayal. People would have to be careful about how and when they use it. Maybe after a betrayal occurs, they're blocked for that team for 5 minutes. The team can still receive in that time however.
What is it with you guys and not liking "mobas"?
>>332953490
>it's mainstream
you must be as edgy as possible to post here
>>332949121
Just one thing from the top of my head, compare invokers Ghost Walk with for example Skeleton Walk.
Anyone else a bit salty that Riot succeded with their shit "moba" genre naming?
Seems to be prevalent now
>>332953490
There's more creativity in the WC3 community than in mega game corp games.
>>332944560
>le buttblasted mobababby
>>332953878
There is more creativity Starsector, yet there is an Undertale/Stardew Valley thread daily.
>>332952142
>play original dota
>go top
>bloodseeker and pit lord fighting over mid
>both go mid
>2 min later
>"bloodseeker has denied pit lord"
>>332952640
le reddit
>get the LoL maps
>get LoL mechanics
>just use fucking LoL>put 32 players per team
there you go,your game is now 400000% more fun and you have a less toxic community
battlefield 4 is the best online game i get to play and closed 64 player combat is just masterful
why don't people understand that more=fun,in relation to players?
sven coop is fun as fuck too
How do we fix the innate problem of American Football, which is the ridiculous team dependency? Eleven strangers simply cannot coordinate efficiently, and matches boil down to playcalls and the counters therein.
Play with an actual team is the obvious answer, of course, but I am specifically looking for answers that would make American Football a viable genre for solo/less than 11 stack play
>>332957452
>eleven strangers
i'm not even american,but that is bullshit
>>332943884
This is the truth
>>332947130
>20 player matches
>doesn't know about 10v10 in dota 2
>>332943325
>strangers simply cannot coordinate efficiently
>>332947992
Invoker is literally the only good character in Dota2.
make a new fucking map that's how. jesus christ. put maps on a rotation.
>>332956412
The more players the less relevant each of them is.
Tides of Blood sequel when?
>>332943325
MOBAs are more flawed than that. The games are just a test to see who's a bigger faggot. No one in their right mind should participate in them.
Here's one I made that would make the most sense.
>>332943325
git gud
>>332943325
You don't. A team game is a team game. If you don't want to play on a team, play something else.
>How do we fix football's team dependency?
Fuck off.
>>332945328
I don't get it
Is it supposed to loop around or something?
You can simply not play them.
No matter how hard you try to justify them taking skill in the end just about every other genre of games take more skill. RTS, FPS, TPS, fighting
>>332961452
Every time.
>>332943325
DELETE SOLO LANES, MOBAS AREN'T 1v1 GAMES.
>>332943325
All flying heros,
Instead of top down or whatever the current view is it's like a vertical ant farm map.
One team is the underworld and other celestials.
>>332962153
MOBAs would be so much better if they were just a forest of bullshit creatures with no lanes and it was just a giant free for all with dynamic alliances and the goal was to pay the Toll the top of a giant tower in the middle and become the king. you know, you kill the creatures to gain Strength and items and you can hunt down other players etc.
>>332962628
So something like
>>332949009
>>332961690
Yes. That's why there's 2 sets of Top, Bot, and Mid lane_2.
How about... a MOBA on a sphere...
But the entire map except the two poles, where the bases are, are randomized Jungle.
You have to build the base defenses and lanes to the enemy base.
>There's a generic item called the Tool Belt which allows a character to build base defenses, lane defenses, and minions+ minion upgrades influenced by the character who made them.
>If it's the fire caster, her constructs will be on fire and burn most things they hit/get hit by.
>If it's the steampunk dude with the fancy hat, it's going to hit harder than average, but be frail as fuck cause it's literally just jury-rigged bullshit.
etc.
>you can have more than one dedicated "builder" on your team, but either way, your team is still going to have to grind up and pool resources to be used to build your shit.
>>332963452
building your own lanes is a cool idea. not sure about the sphere though, 3d make head hurt
>>332963843
It just means the map wraps around itself in terms of camera. If you keep walking in any direction, you will pass the same point on that path repeatedly.
>>332949139
Natural Selection, Savage
It's a cool concept, too bad these games never caught any tractions
MOBAs just simply don't work for your favor at all sometimes.
Some matches feel like the game mechanics are altered just to fuck you and only you in the ass
>>332943707
what is warcraft 3
>>332947992
>Inhibitors stay destroyed
Nah, that would remove any hope of comebacks
Currently they can happen if the people behind do really well in a teamfight, or if they catch out that one fed guy who decides to splitpush all game
But if inhibs are down they can't push that advantage because supers will destroy everything without the stronger champions staying behind to stop them
There is no fixing that cancerous genre. Stop playing that garbage and let it die.
>>332965217
>stop playing and let it die
>Implying casuals will stop too
Get your head out of your ass and look, dingus.
