Don't you think that SEGA should have stayed with an Adventure-like gameplay ?
Why all games after the 2006 disaster are forced to have this disgraceful linear and automated gameplay that began with Sonic and the Secret Rings ?
No, Sonic Adventure was terrible.
Sonic 06 followed the Sonic Adventure model of gameplay, that's why they abandoned it afterwards.
Adventure and its sequel receiving too much positivie feedback doomed the series.
>>332941480
If Sonic Adventure is terrible, its not because of the Sonic parts. Sonic '06 was just plain broken, with only a skeleton crew as the dev team for the second half of development.
>>332941480
More like a castrated Adventure 2 that anything else.
>>332941696
> its not because of the Sonic parts
I agree, it's because Sonic Team attempted a game with such a wide scope that it ended up as great of an unpolished unfocused mess as it did.
Sonic 06 is that problem turned up to 11.
>Advenure
>anything but garbage
Adventure is what killed the fucking series you goddamn idiot
Sonic Team is no longer Sonic Team, why the fuck do people not realize developers change when their core staff leaves over the years? "Sonic Team" might as well be a no-name shovelware developer nowadays, it would be more honest than shitting on the storied name of an amazing dev group from the golden 90s.
>332941597
>332941864
sonicfags
>>332941119
Unleashed and Colors aren't linear, people play them that way or see videos and make assumptions.
Adventure was also not a design philosophy, it was clearly a directionless playground with points loosely tied together by minor, often automatic, platforming. People just seem to forget those parts.
For example the rockets, springs, boost pads, jump from pad to pad and all that were in Adventure. As I said you could muck about in the spaces between that but that wasn't intentional, that was just them running out of means to progress the player that wouldn't feel sterile so it's back to some small gimmick like walking up walls or something that's not really challenging and just sort of a nuisance.
I love Adventure, but I could go on and on if someone actually thinks it was a good idea then or now.
>>332941696
>not because of the Sonic parts.
This. Imagine a game with only Sonic parts, improved camera and multiple playable characters with unique abilities and ways to traverse the level ala Tails and Knuckles in S3&K.
>>332941597
>>332941480
I can see you underageb& must have taken the opinion of your favorite e-celeb instead of forming your own.
The original DC releases of Adventure 1 and 2 were incredible when they came out in.
They aged pretty terribly as far as graphics, sound, and maybe even mechanics are concerned but to call them as bad as Sonic 06 which was awful and years behind of all of its contemporaries upon release is ignorant.
Heroes is the only adventure styled game that approaches good.
Adventure level design sucks ass and was only tolerable as a grinding minigame for the chao garden.
>>332941119
>>332941480
>>332941597
>>332941696
>>332941756
>>332941858
>>332941864
>>332942049
>>332942068
>>332942149
>>332942180
>>332942184
>>332942184
I'm not calling them as bad as Sonic 06 though.
I'm saying Sonic 06 is based on the same formula as Sonic Adventure.
Sonic Adventure wasn't very good. But Sonic 06 was even worse because it had the same model, evil more alternate character bullshit and none of the dev time.
>>332942180
What a disgrace. Tails/Eggman parts were remarkable.
>>332942387
>Sonic Adventure wasn't very good
>>332942256LOL?
>>332942256
SEGA does what Nintendon't, the only good Mario games are those from the Paper Mario series.
for everytime a stupid thread like this pops up in /v/ the genesis games become more overrated and below-average as a result.
>>332942486
Do you really need me to itemize all the flaws in that game? Every faggot on the internet has criticized its loose controls, overabundance of underdeveloped side characters and shitty camera.
>>332942467
I'll give you Eggman since he's one of the few consistently good parts of the franchise.
Nah, both Sonic Adventure games are terrible. They need to make something completely different.
>>332942251
By comparison with the first two Sonic Adventure, the level design in Heroes is far inferior in quality.
>>332942583
>implying someone said nintendo was better in this thread or said mario is perfect.
ill be real with you. sega as arcade dev is better than nintendo as a whole. but the genesis sonic games aren't even close to the worst mario game.
>>332942486
It really wasn't. I'll never understand people who praise Adventures but hate Sonic 06 since they're almost on par with each other.
Didn't that one faggot on youtube explain it well. Sonic was a franchise that worked well in the 90's but cannot transfer well to this new era due to its gameplay demands?
>>332943049
because core-wise there designed differently
>>332943147
The core design is the same
It's just that Sonic Adventure was finished and Sonic 06 was not.
>>332943084
for your sake, sonic fans and nintendo fans are one and the same. different brands. same mindset and way of thinking.
>>332943084
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kE9BR24XIw
You can't refute this
Boost2Win ruined the series.
Loved SA2 controls for Sonic. Controls were tight. You didnt get "babby mode auto lockon from a mile away" homing attacks, if you didnt make an effort to go that direction, you died. Not so much speed they had to make sections for it.
Classic throwbacks that leverage on speed for ranks are cool, but the point and mission system really resonated with me. Increased replayability a ton. Points rewarded the player for being creative with how they approached the level, and while speed does that as well, All you have to go for in generations is speed. "Wow I'm going fast" vs. "Look at all this cool shit i can do!"
Both creeds for sonic have valid points, but please go the route of adventure, then expand upon its formula. Steer away from unleashed/generations.
>>332941119
Colors and the day levels of Unleashed were good.
>>332943147
And at least, Adventure didn't dare to bring us such a huge faggot.
>>332943084
I'm not sure if I'd say they cannot transfer well, Sonic's gameplay demands can be met, they just take unfeasible time and effort.
>>332943352
the idea of the video is a good way of thinking, but he lost credibility when sonic was primary about the marketing.
>>332941480
Sonic 06 was bad not because it followed SA model of gameplay, but because it was genuinely bad.
Bugs, glitches, boring levels and terrible gimmicks.
It's like making a 3d mario game using Galaxy as the blueprint but making a game filled with glitches, bland levels. Are you going to blame Galaxy gameplay model for such terrible game?
SA was a great foundation for 3d Sonic games,
The biggest problems with SA are lack of polishing.
The core gameplay is fine. Sonic plays well when doing precision platforming and when running fast.
The problems come when dealing with stuff like camera controls and other bugs related with hit detection.
But that isn't something related with the core game. It's a time problem. Time to fix bugs, to polish the rough edges.
Sonic playstyle in SA1 and SA2 is god tier.
All it needed was more time to fix bugs. Unfortunately Sega scrapped everything they made with the SA series and decided to go on a clusterfuck of a rampage with Heroes and Shadow and lastly, 06 till they decided to start from zero and introduced the linear, slippery control that started with Unleashed
>>332943462
Colors was 90% 2d and Unleashed was nothing but press boost to win in corridor like levels.
SA at least felt like a traditional 3d platform with Sonic elements
And that's what you want in a 3d Sonic game
>>332942486
I don't remember this from the manga, what the fuck?
>>332941119
Why is linear considered a bad word?
>>332943010
>Linear corridors
>Open ended levels with various branching paths based on skill that follow the design philosophy of the Genesis games
Heroes takes this easy, m8
>>332943591
>sonic was primary about the marketing
>>332943991
The kind and level of linearity is very important when you are using it as one.
>>332941119
Boost games are more fun.
>SA2 is bad
Idea time, guys. How can we better combat shitposting of this caliber for a higher-quality board?
>>332944151
Go to a Sonic fanboy hugbox.
>>332943991
Denotes a lack of creativity/ability/vision on the devs part.
>>332944151
Go to /vg/
>>332944151
People not like a game you like isn't shitposting.
Both SAs are terrible, by the way.
>>332944273
>go to /vg/
>for quality and a lack of shitposting
It doesn't work like that.
>>332944238
Not helping, man.
>>332944029
But he was and it's blatantly obvious. You didn't need sbh to prove this.
>cool
>radical
>goes fast
>appealing to edgy kids
It's proof with the first games level design and gameplay not being as refined.
Pic related was supposed to be the mascot of Genesis, and it was "NEW"
>>332944151
SA2 was indeed bad. SA, though is a good game and anyone who says it isn't is clearly shitposting.
>inb4 le wacky cutscene faces XD
>>332941119
>The degeneracy of ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
sure ok granpa
>>332944259
well what about the first couple of sonic games?
>>332944493
The first couple sonic games had branching level design. Though the stage progression was linear, the level traversal definitely wasn't.
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2016/04/sonic_team_boss_takashi_iizuka_heads_to_the_us_to_oversee_new_sonic_games
Iizuka was mad he didn't manage to kill the series the first time so now he's back to finish the job after he finished off NiGHTS
>>332944493
Multiple branching paths and secrets galore.
>>332944365
Ristar came out literally 7 years after the Genesis was released, he was not supposed to be the mascot you idiot.
Ristar Sucks Balls
>>332944493
They weren't linear. At all
The least intricate classic trilogy level is 10 times as complex as the most intricate Adventure 1-2 level.
>>332944650
Better than any Sonic game
>>332944665
>>332941119
Yes. They did not even attempt to polish the gameplay. The only gameplay style I could safely say they polished is the oldschool 2D games and the unleashed formula which they STILL abandoned for some reason.
This is puzzling. I wish more than anything else for sonic they stick to something. I hate boost to win to a passion but I would gladly play another game if they further improved it from generations and provided some continuity.
>>332943084
That's silly. Something can't be good in the 90's but not good now.
The Sonic portions of Adventure and Unleashed/Colors/Generations all keep the basic formula of a Sonic game. Levels have multiple routes that reward quick reflexes, there are flashy speed sections that are admittedly more spectacle than gameplay, and there are times when you have to stop for more precise platforming.
The problem is that core has become diluted over time with too many gimmicks and reinvention, unlike Mario for example which has stayed true to its core and not felt the need to add tons of other types of gameplay to appeal to many different types of people.
It also hurts that Sonic has never had the type of quality control that Mario has going all the way back to the first game. With the possible exception of Sunshine Mario games are not released until they've received the proper level of polish, Sonic is on a deadline and always has been.
I just think the Adventure games control terribly. Had they controlled better, the Sonic sections would be the best, but turning is so damn awful that it can send me flying 90 degrees in a different direction, especially while going fast.
>>332941119
Unleashed/Color/Generations gameplay would make for a great Sonic R sequel to be honest, I'm still waiting for them to implement a Sonic Adventure 2 multiplayer type mode using that gameplay.
>>332944818
> Something can't be good in the 90's but not good now.
Yeah it can. A game that's on the bleeding edge of technology becomes a lot worse when a dozen other games a year later do everything it does except better.
>>332944884
>great
>Sonic R
>>332942149
>mistaking gimmicks for a lack of direction
Never speak like you know what the fuck you are talking about again. Yeah the gimmick were stale and similar between the stages but there were uniue ones like in lost world? Or would you excuse moving ancient antigrav platforms as a nuisance in a hidden magical temple.
Goddammit my brain hurt just reading that.
>>332944151
SA was good for it's time unlike 06. The main difference is that the game feels like Sega was actually trying.
SA2 fixes almost every problem SA had, in fact SA2 makes SA seem like a bad game when you compare them.
>>332945010
Sonic R as in a racing game where they are actually on foot and not cars or horses or not allowed to go at full speed because of the Olympics.
>>332945084
But Adventure 1 is better than Adventure 2.
>>332944259
Only if the franchise is used to have non-linear games.
Not every linear game is bad.
>>332945084
They deleted the hubs, though, which were pretty cool.
>>332944896
I'd argue that that game wasn't good in the first place if all it had going for it was the technology.
This shit is the real degeneracy of the series
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vSVTz-0KYIU
>>332943463
>liking any character in a sonic game
No, you are the faggot
>>332945084
>in fact SA2 makes SA seem like a bad game when you compare them.
>Sonic sections made even more linear
>Shootan sections dumbed down
>Treasure hunting was pretty good but was jarring as fuck in a series about speed
The only thing SA2 did right was Multiplayer and Chao Garden.
>>332945280
Don't forget the horrid radar.
>>332945010
Retard
You dont actually think the adventure games weren't automated and linear too, right?
>>332945208
If you consider a game where the advancement of technology is used to pioneer a new genre, e.g. GTA 3, then I think it could well have been good at the time.
>>332945343
This shit gets me the most
>I like the adventure games over the unleashed styled for their freedom of movement
>Even though the levels on average had less branching paths than secret rings
>>332945250
Robotnik rulez, you filthy subhuman.
>>332945190
Hubs were absolutely pointless, it may have been a cool idea at the time but it's unnecessary in a Sonic game.
Sonic is not a Zelda game, you don't need to do certain tasks to get to the next stage of the game. You should be dumped into that stage and be expected to do what Sonic does best: running and platforming.
>>332943463
>>332943828
Don't tell me what the fuck I want in a 3D Sonic game. It's pathetic when the only fun 3D Sonic is a fan game made on the Doom engine
can sonicfags actaully make an intresting sonic thread. that isn't the following:
>hay guiz the sanic adventure gaemz sux!!!!! lmao triggered
>post yr oh-ceez
>mah autism
>genesis gaemz = god!
>wahhhhh sanic iz ded guiz
>>332945507
>open image
>immediately hear brooding Crush 40 play
>>332945507
I remember that render looking awesome back then but now it just looks like he's made out of rubber.
>>332945560
Suck my titties you mongoloid
>>332945560
SRB2 is nothing but shit. Even its predecessor was a better game.
>>332945560
that game blows as a 3d sonic and as actual game sorry but its true.
>>332945574
>wahhhhh sanic iz ded guiz
That's a pretty fair assumption given they abandoned the only gameplay style people generally liked in the last two decades in favor of throwing more garbage at the wall.
Not listening to the fans.
http://www.1up.com/news/shadow-wrestling-hedgehog
>Yuji Naka later commented on the design of the game. "We had received letters from kids, and many of them had asked for Sonic to have a gun," he said. "We felt that it was not appropriate for Sonic to have a gun, but maybe it would be ok with Shadow and that's how we started on the game."
The degeneracy of the Sonic fanbase autistic retard manchildren
>>332945036
What kind of nonargument are you on about? "It's theme appropriate so it's exempt from ridicule"?
The anti-grav in Death Egg Zone is a gimmick, a polish one.
The nonsense in Lost World is a fucking uninvolved mess.
>>332945870
As much as I hate the decision I respect Sega for having balls and experimenting
>After countless garbage games we finally perfected a formula that everyone loves
>Throw that shit in the garbage and start over
>>332945808
>>332945727
>>332945694
>Hasn't played it
Why can't you admit that some fans made a better game on the DOOM engine?
>>332945560
Never played sonic, but that actually looks comfy/fun as fuck
>>332943593
This guy gets it
>The problems come when dealing with stuff like camera controls and other bugs related with hit detection.
Not to mention that the level design in general is pretty bad. the problem with SA's levels is that they are too realistic, like the beach feels way too similar to a real life beach. Because of this it limits the platforming potential.
SA2 fixed this with it's level design. The jungle level does in no way resemble a real jungle but who cares because it is a platforming game.
>Sonic playstyle in SA1 and SA2 is god tier.
100% agree with this. The controls are solid in those games. it controls just how you would want to control sonic.
It started to get bad with Heroes where sonic felt like he was walking on a slippery slope the entire time. In Generations Sonic feels like a fucking train, I dont understand how people say this game has the best controls. They are tolerable, but bad. 06 is simply indescribable with how bad the controls feel.
When I go back to SA 1 and 2 (moreso with 1) I recognized that these games are kind of dated in terms of level design, etc. But they are still enjoyable, I always have a good time when playing them. Honestly, 2 in my opinion passes as a good modern game (1 doesnt though, it is very dated).
>>332945870
Strange to notice that Sonic Boom : Rise of Lyric wasn't even mentioned in the whole thread.
>>332945560
>liking a 3d sonic game that doesn't even have dialogue
shit felt more like jumping around random minecraft levels than a true 3d sonic
>>332946204
sonic controls slippery as fuck in 2 and 1
I dont know how you can be so blind and yet say Heroes is where it started
>>332946135
you wish you classic sonic cum guzzing faggot.
>>332946262
I think everyone already knows how bad that one is.
>>332946289
I hate hyperbole myself, but when a group of people start complaining the food on the table tastes like shit no one thinks to take the discussion to the bathroom to evaluate actual feces in comparison. It's just common sense.
>>332946262
That's practically cheating.
And I think Lost World proves the point better since it's a Sonic Team game
>>332945880
holy shit the absolute madman. At no point did anyone say that this was a bad idea?
>>332946313
Probably playing Non GC heroes. There's a very noticeable difference in quality between the Xbox/GC/PS2 versions when it comes to "polish" like camera controls, movement, and hitbox detection.
The PS2 version is nearly an 06 tier disaster.
>>332946313
Play the games side by side. Night and day difference in controls.
>>332945226
>implying anything that can give rise to this is degeneracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXDNBBh2QSo
>>332946464
The guy sabotaged the franchise he helped create into the ground until he left so probably not.
>>332941119
I still genuinely believe if sega had made an adventure game on saturn with the classic characters it would be fucking great, like if they expanded on sonic world's concepts from sonic jam. or maybe what if instead of shoehorning in mech gameplay in SA2 they just had a seperate game called "eggman adventure" or something so that way tails could just be tails without a fucking mech.
>>332946445
It counts; as bad as it was it's hardly on the same level as the zelda CDi games to warrant being excluded from discussion
>>332946313
No, not in Adventure 2. That issue was largely fixed.
>>332946464
Can't remember where I heard it but I recall a review saying it was more likely SEGA and Sonic Team were evaluating the success of action games and wanted to compete there or at least keep up and keep things fresh by introducing elements like that into the games. Cue weapons, health bars, enemy arena spawn points where combat is necessary to advance, the gimped attempts at attack combos Shadow gets in Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog and '06.
The fans' incomprehensible expectations and demands just make a nice scapegoat.
All in all I agree with Retropolis Zone, it's not that the sort of overall idea can't be done since Jak and Daxter managed it. It was just how Sonic Team went about it that caused issues.
>>332946884
Well that was originally the plan but because sega (the publisher) was run by complete idiots at the time it never happened.
>>332946979
bull fucking shit
I played the GC and DC version and it still controls like ass
>>332947028
no shit, tom kalinske was an ass.
>>332946313
The controls are definitely similar. The main difference is that in Heroes, sonic takes off at the speed of light if you so much as look at the analogue stick.
>>332946884
>I still genuinely believe if sega had made an adventure game on saturn with the classic characters
Was the original plan. Why would you think the Eggman decal on the Egg Carrier look like his classic design ?
>>332945653
>but now it just looks like he's made out of rubber
How did that happen?
>>332945560
>It's pathetic
Is it? Doom is the absolute groundwork for speedy 3D. I'm not sure why anyone would try to use this as a backhand when it's a very logical approach.
Sega breaks into your house and demands you make a good Sonic game. What do you do differently?
Im just going to drop by and say that if you want to play the best version of SA, download the steam version and patch it with this mod:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=299808681
>>332941480
SA was an incredible game and while it maybe doesn't hold up in some regards, the production value is off the fucking charts. The VAs and the original songs make that game a fucking gem. The tone of the game is absolutely perfect too. SA2 is where we starting getting way too fucking serious. Still a good game though.
To answer OP, yes, they should have stuck with the SA formula, but they would have fucked it up anyways because of the shift in tone they would have chosen. Proof is literally every sonic game they have put out since, besides Generations.
>>332947441
too bad as actual game and 3d sonic game. it still sucks. many classic sonicfags like to go on that sonic games are about using momentum physics to traverse uneven level design. yet srb2 doesn't even do that at all, sonic adventure regardless how anyone could feel about it. still had that. yet the fags will cling to anything that resembles classic sonic and try to put down sonic team/sega at the time as a result. unable to admit they like something for the reason, for another given.
>>332947356
true, but I mean without dialogue as well, just sonic and the others doing things in 3D
>>332948114
Nice strawman, bro
Face it, faggots: Sonic was never very good. It was just a crappy "me too" game that couldn't even approach Mario's level of quality.
>>332942486
What abizzareanniemay
>>332948778
I was wondering when this meme would show up.
>>332942184
>The original DC releases of Adventure 1 and 2 were incredible when they came out in.
They really weren't. Though they did receive very high ratings (during a time when it was very uncommon to see a AAA game rated lower than an 85% unless it was exceptionally bad), most of the complaints reviewers had are the same ones people have today.
Coming years after games like Super Mario 64 set the standard for 3D platforming, the SA series didn't have much to offer at the time other than a long-awaited fully 3D Sonic franchise.
They are still good games, though. I still thoroughly enjoy playing through them every now and then, even after all these years.
>>332948845
That wasn't even in the manga, it's made to pander to shitty anime tropes. The Jojo anime is garbage
>We will never get the original Sonic Adventure
>>332949024
Well the original Sonic Adventure was called Sonic RPG I'll gladly pass on that, assuming the story we got in Adventure was the one we would've ended up with.
>>332949020
Who cares if it wasn't in the anime? It's a funny scene and the baby deserves it.
How would you carry over the momentum physics of the original 2D games into a 3D Sonic?
>>332949352
It's disgusting and practically fetichistic
>>332943049
>lying on the internet
Yeah, I remember that part in Adventure where I had to wander Station Square with no idea what to do.
>>332949563
>anime is filled with over the top violence and gore
>one scene of a turd being scooped up and eaten is too much
>>332949020
>That wasn't even in the manga
I hope you're just joking. It's a bad joke, but I still hope anyways.
>>332949397
I wouldn't.
>>332941119
>Why all games after the 2006 disaster are forced to have this disgraceful linear and automated gameplay that began with Sonic and the Secret Rings ?
Because, unlike the games before it, you could actually control it. Then they tried going back to free 3D again with Lost World, realized they couldn't code worth shit and made it slower than 3D Mario. Now the franchise is down in the shitter again and, rightfully, no one cares about the anniversary.
>>332949884
I haven't even read the manga, so I couldn't call him out on it.
3D Sonic was a mistake
>>332949630
Yeah, because everyone who hates Sonic Adventures 1 just got lost in the crappy hub, not because the game doesn't have flaws, amirite?
>>332949020
>That wasn't even in the manga
It was, though
>>332950262
>and, rightfully, no one cares about the anniversary.
No one cares about the anniversary because they haven't said shit about what the anniversary game is.
>>332950541
No, but the shitty hub and direction is a major reason why 06 fails.
>>332945010
Sonic R isn't a good game (though arguably entertaining), but its core idea isn't bad.
>>332950281
That's the「Mind Games」people play with media source reference, whether or not someone's read a book they can claim it's better than the movie since most moviegoer only audiences don't know any better.
The trick is not just buying whatever's sold to you. Ask them why, if they call you a secondary or X-only fag not worth explaining things to chances are they're full of shit.
I played most of the main sonic series for the first time and I have to say I liked Generations the best. The 3D levels are really well designed they actually have more to them than the adventure levels. Boost is so satsisfying to use and not so easy to controll that you just have to hold down boost either. Also Sonic just controls better, when I fail in Sonic Generations it feels like it is my fault not the game's (sometimes in the old games enemies come out of nowhere or in Adventure you just don't control all that well).
I started playing Unleashed too and it is bretty gud but the werehog parts are tedious. I also liked colors but not sure how I felt about the different kind of 2D gameplay from the classics and the lack of 3D gameplay.
What the fuck is with this epic "SA1 controls like shit" maymay? The controls are fantastic.
>>332952303
SA1 is mostly okay besides camera shit but 2 has a few problems.
>>332952479
Adventure 2's controls are weird. They're slightly wobbly (or slippery for Shadow), but other than that, they're great.
>>332952303
You are retarded.
t. Dreamcast kid
>>332952763
One example of bad controls is that switching grindrails sucks dick. Sometimes you just jump off and die for seemingly no reason. And when you succeed you just immediately snap to the other rail. It's horseshit honestly. Most of SA1 and 2 are fine but they definitely improved the controls with Unleashed.
>>332952813
Dreamcast's controls suck. Gamecube's are way better.
>>332953202
It's the same shit.
>>332944365
What are you retarded?
>>332953046
You just need to get better at it.
>>332953316
I echo this >>332953791
>>332953839
Or they could make switching grind rails work 100% of the time which they eventually did do.
>>332953939
I'm not the one advocating for a broken game. You're like those idiots claiming SA is totally not a broken turd on DC because the overseas version was slightly less buggy compared to the original that was ported to GC.
>>332944818
>Precision Platforming in a Sonic game
>>332953989
Stop pointing the analogue stick in the exact direction of the rail. If the rail is to the lower-left, don't point the analogue stick to the lower-left, and instead point it to the regular left. I haven't had a problem with rail-switching in a long time.
>>332954351
Why not just have the left stick move rails or L and R buttons? As far as I can tell the balance shit doesn't do much at all. They did exactly this and I don't see how you could argue it isn't an improvement. You can still jump off rails if you press jump.
![cover[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mVTRov3.jpg "cover[1].jpg")
>we'll never see Sonic 2 Special Edition
>>332952813
You are ad hominem.
t. Someone who's incapable of formulating actual arguements
>>332955030
wat
>>332954926
Because the analogue stick is used for balancing, and using L and R wouldn't be satisfying. Rail-switching is fun because it feels like you're sticking a magnet to something.
>>332955030
theres a full lets play of it
>>332948861
it's not a meme if it's true
>>332956604
That's not really how that works.
I like 2-D Sonic because it stands for more than just the franchise. Back in the day, 2-dimensional graphics were a lot like black and white film in the sense that they were much better overall than the newer technicolor films being printed. Lots of games would get released on N64 and PS in 2-D and still look remarkably better than some other 3-D games.
As a gameplay choice, I think the Adventure games excel a little better than the 2-D counterparts; there's just more to do and a lot more to get from the gameplay. I think the series should have reinvented The Secret Rings format and stuck with that, but the Unleashed and Generations iterations are pretty good too.
As a standard though, if we do get to enjoy The Secret Rings all over again, please make the gameplay 60fps. Please.
>>332954175
In that webm I think that's the environment being larger compared to Sonic in the 3D game, though there does seem to be more "catch" in 3D.
>>332945653
As if this d@rk-3dg3 the android couldn't be actually be made of rubber.
>>332944151
If I force my nostalgia away, I can acknowledge there were some gameplay issues with SA2 (gem radar only working for one at a time, mech control got slippery).
I will forgive all of that, however, because I utterly adore the aesthetic, and Sega has been fucking that up ever since.
has degeneracy become another 4chan buzzword that is used outside of the context of its own meaning?
>>332942915
I don't mind Tails parts necessarily, and I get the symmetry both sides were going through, but dammitI wanna fly high.Also Tails is my sonfu.
>>332958486
Degeneracy was a buzzword in the context of its own meaning.
>>332948071
Just look at SA in the context of its time period. It was released in 1998, the same year as Ocarina of Time. It was really an out of this world adventure game. The graphics were probably the best of its time. They put a shit ton of effort into it.
>>332958639
>>332958486
But it's used correctly.
>To diminish in quality, especially from a former state of coherence, balance, integrity, etc.
>>332948778
While a platformer (fucking everything was a platformer back then), Sonic was different enough in its approach to movement and level design to be its own thing.
>>332943435
I liked generations but I wish that it should have been more platforming then mindless speed. The 2D sonic sections were getting there. They had some cool sections though
I like SA1 and SA2 Sonic. He's fun to control, most stages are fine, it's just good overall.
SA1 and 2's biggest issues are not Sonic's portions of the game. The real issue is that Sonic gameplay takes a backseat in both Sonic Adventure games for no good reason.
Sonic 06 vaguely plays like SA2, but really fucking bad. Even movement isn't well done, and you can tell that Sega after that point didn't really get what made Sonic's gameplay in SA1 and SA2 so enjoyable.
>>332958486
>used outside of the context of its own meaning
That's wrong, though.
Degeneracy is being used correctly in this context.
>>332960562
holy shit we have gone this far without a picture of rouge
>>332960562
>>332960847
Thread's over guys, let's all go home
>>332960847
When the hell did everyone start drawing rouge as
T H I C C
H
I
C
C
How come nobody talks about this? Wii exclusive?
>>332961468
no one talks about it because i'm name filtered
>>332961468
It's loved on /sthg/
It's a great game, but wagglan killed it. Tons of people have recently been playing it on Dolphin with an actual controller. Game is tight.
To everyone who hates Sonic Adventure 2 because its gameplay is different than the previous games in the series:
If you really think Adventure 2 is trying to be even remotely similar to the Classic games or even Adventure 1, all you're doing is effectively making yourself look like an idiot. Adventure 2's levels are fast-paced, action-packed obstacle courses in which the goal is to find the best ways to bring your score up - whether it be enemy-combos, rings, trick ramps and the like, you name it - in order to ultimately achieve an A-rank, a feature that not only encourages the player to improve, but also provides a motive for exploring the levels other than, "Why not?" All that, with the additional goal of mastering every single move you make, creates just as much depth as the games that came before it, as well as a top-notch arcade feel. It's a lot like NiGHTS gameplay-wise.
Sonic Adventure 2 is its own thing, and it's not trying to be anything other than what it is, including the Classics. It's not a game that warrants nonlinear level-design, an abundance of platforming, slope physics, or open-ended paths. You hate a game because it's not what YOU personally want it to be, because it's (GASP!) actually NOT something that it's NOT supposed to be. You hate a game because YOU are the problem, and if you honestly can't understand why that logic is horrendously flawed, then I don't even know what to tell you.
>>332961468
Game would've been great if they didn't overdo the wagglan
Moving Sonic by shifting the wiimote works well, but begins to fall apart when the game also forces you to waggle to homing attack and also interact with the level. Causing the wiimote to lose it's calibration is a mandatory part of the game and I have no idea that didn't make it past testing.
>>332961710
The controller is one problem, the game starts out gimped is the core issue. I've seen recent pleas to make another Secret Rings for some reason instead of Black Knight which gets everything Secret Rings got wrong right immediately from the start in terms of pace, repetitiveness and variety.
I'm not saying it was bad, but it wasn't tight.
>>332961468SEVEN RINGS IN HAND
just make a sonic game where you actually go fast, no stops for admiring the fucking landscape
>>332961710
Bullshit, this is an awful game
Why doesn't Colors get the praise it deserves?
>self aware story
>unleashed style speed stages
>no character swaps
>the least egregious platforming in the series
>>332961942
>>332964802
>I could provide concrete examples to prove my point but here's this maymay instead
>>332961468
I dont like it because you have to level up sonic in order to play the game properly. You shouldnt have to level up a character to play a platforming game properly
>>332961942
>Sonic Adventure 2 is its own thing, and it's not trying to be anything other than what it is, including the Classics.
Thats what makes it a good game imo.
>>332964489
But it did get praise.
>>332961942
>creates just as much depth as the games that came before it, as well as a top-notch arcade feel
ahaha no
Figuring out the optimal way to traverse through levels and perfecting your inputs to get through them exists and is far more difficult in the genesis games. SA2 streamlining this process with less intricate levels, less complex inputs and a more clear cut ranking system doesn't give it more depth. In fact it does the opposite
Sonic will never be great again.
Just let this meme of a game fucking die.
>>332966140
Sonic died a long time ago, he'll never be dead for good. Not even Shadow the Hedgehog or 06 could do it.
>>332966409
>Shadow the edgehog
are an edgy?
>>332961575
Who are you?
