FEELINGS
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games
Why do normies praise final fantasy for its deep, complex, plot when 90% of all FF narratives can pretty much be summarized as follows:
1. An empire is attacking a smaller kingdom/town/village/school/resistance movement.
2. You are a part of the latter and never the former.
3. The protagonist has identity issues and struggles to find his/her place in the world.
4. The protagonist has a love interest, but their relationship doesn't make any sense because they barely interact and when they do it's like listening in to a conversation between two six year olds.
5. The empire inevitably ends up winning and your party is on the run at some point.
6. The final boss is linked to the big bad empire somehow, but the real final boss is a total ass pull out of nowhere.
7. There is some sort of hidden power/element that affects the world and the bad guys are either using it to their advantage or trying to destroy it.
8. A party member dies.
9. There's lots of talk about emotions and what it means to live life etc. but it's all fairly sophomore in its approach to exploring these themes.
Seriously, can't the nips come up with something a little different one in awhile?
No one in the history of mankind has said that FF has deep and complex plot, do your homework buddy.
>>332759610
FF4 debunks point 1 off the hop.
>>332759610
That doesn't apply to even half of the FF games.
1, 3, 4 (which breaks almost all of those), 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 13 miss at least half to 3/4 of these points.
Also some of those points are incredibly generic (I know 7 and 9 apply to almost every jrpg/japanese game on the market)
>>332760286
A lot of people do, but most of then played FF7-FFXIII
>this is what normies relieve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35P_9MgxlQU
>>332759610
Did you even play FF1 or FF5
>>332759610
L O N D O N
O
N
D
O
N
Most of these games have the most standard JRPG story, they were never complex or anything of the sort, they are just fun adventures around some weird fantasy worlds where you see some weird shit.
>>332760442
>>332761479
FINE - ff6 onwards
>>332762102
More games in the second half of the series don't fit anywhere close to what you described.
As much as I hate FF13's story, it doesn't have like any of those points except 9. But like every JRPG on the market has 9 because of muh Japanese culture.
>>332759610
Final Fantasy Tactics:
1. No, two dukes are fighting a civil war
2. No, you're on neither side
3. Yes, Ramza doesn't understand his status as a noble
4. No, none at all
5. No, the church ends up "winning"
6. No, but it is linked to the church
7. Yes, the zodiac stones
8. No, but Teta dies.
9. No, unless you define "what it means to live life" as "government and class system philosophy."
2 out of 9? that's a failing grade
>>332762295
>my name is steps away from Chelsea Manning
Hiro knows
>>332762203
If you think FF13 doesn't contain nearly all of those points then you haven't played FF13 or you're easily mislead thematically.
>>332762295
Yeah, but FF tactics was good and wasn't part of the main series.
>>332762203
That's mostly cause OP sucks at phrasing.
>1. An empire is attacking a resistance movement.
Fits, though they are really "relocating citizens".
>2. You are a part of the latter and never the former.
Fits.
>3. The protagonist has identity issues and struggles to find his/her place in the world.
This role is more given to Hope, so sort of fits.
>4. The protagonist has a love interest, but their relationship doesn't make any sense because they barely interact and when they do it's like listening in to a conversation between two six year olds.
Doesn't fit.
>5. The empire inevitably ends up winning and your party is on the run at some point.
Half-fits.
>6. The final boss is linked to the big bad empire somehow, but the real final boss is a total ass pull out of nowhere.
Fits.
>7. There is some sort of hidden power/element that affects the world and the bad guys are either using it to their advantage or trying to destroy it.
Uh, maybe.
>8. A party member dies.
Doesn't fit.
>9. There's lots of talk about emotions and what it means to live life etc. but it's all fairly sophomore in its approach to exploring these themes.
fits fits fits
Nobody ever did this.
That said, the cookie cutter plot used in FF is usually better and more enjoyable than most crap released today.
>>332759610
You must be talking about some other series because no one has ever said final fantasy is deep and complex and most of these are kinda generic nitpics that don't even apply to final fantasy. Most don't even have empires, or if they do you're a part of them.
>>332759610
>8. A party member dies.
Doesn't this just happen in 5 and 7?
>>332759610
You forgot about the protagonist being a mopey, whiny, angsty piece of shit that we're somehow supposed to sympathize with because of how "realistic"(lol) of a character he is.
>>332762972
No - it also happens in 9, 12 and you're sister is always about to die in 13 and you're already dead in 10.
>>332763246
>you're already dead in 10
You were never alive
>>332763246
>and you're already dead in 10.
No actuallyyou never existed in the first place
>>332763246
What party member dies in 12?
>>332763304
>>332763368
exactly
>>332759610
> Deep and complex vidya
lol. Real depth in art is not overt. It usually takes somewhat more effort to see the art in works that are art. If a game explores deep themes and uses different methods to present it seemlessly into the direction and narrative.
Think of cinema. "Taxi Driver" is a movie that is "lol deep". The main plot of the film must be interpreted to see the really story that is being told.
No final fantasy has done this with only FFTA toying with it but never going all the way. Off the top of my head I can't think of any vidya in particular that has done this and by that I mean really make the player "think". Not "thinking" the way "lost" made its audience think (the retarded conspiracy reaching based only on whatever scraps the show throws at them but more like the deep you get from breaking bad where you should pay very close attention to the colors of a scene because they hold significant meaning towards the state of the characters and subtle hints about them and their state of being.
This post is a mess
>>332762972
>>332763246
Also happens a few times in FF2 too (Minwu, Josef, Ricard)
>>332763485
I am pointing out lazy narrative design you fucktard; I'm not asking for the kino of vidya. Now fuck off back to /tv/.
>>332763738
You literally posted in the OP
> deep, complex, plot
Literally something being deep is having another layer underneath the plot to analyze and examine. In such deep works the real story being told is that extra layer beneath the main plot and story.
Any asshole can write a story about a wrong needing to be righted, an evil to be overcome, or a crisis to be averted. You can create as many intricate plot twists as you see fit and make an elaborate well thought out and well realized world. These make it entertaining, but not deep.
Again, there is no Vidya I can think of that is truly "Deep".
>>332763738
So then what are you asking? Just to shitpost?
>>332763246
> Party member dies in 9
Who the fuck?
>>332764343
I am not asking for the plot to be complex or deep; I'm saying that this is a very common misconception and, if they are going to sell themselves on narrative, square should put more effort in. I am not asking for much, I am not asking for deep or complex - I would just like a little more variation.
>>332764789
Vivi
>>332764852
Why should they put in any effort when the fantards will just eat up anything they fart out as long as it comes with spiky hair and a buster sword? Crisis Core had one of the most insultingly bad and uninspired stories in the entirety of the medium and people still loved that shit and even considered it the best of the franchise. There's literally no reason to spend even an iota of energy into making a coherent story when Square could shit on a plate and the fans will still line up to preorder it in droves.
>>332764928
Maybe? Even if it was confirmed that he had passed on, it's in the epilogue of assumed natural causes. Hard to compare that with characters tragically being killed off during the games main story.
>>332763159
Most of the MC aren't like this though
>>332765893
Only in the more popular games.
>>332759610
Taking 9 points to summarize a game isn't bad.
You could summarize LotR in less.
>>332765383
> crisis core considered good
> best in series
lol. CC and Dirge of Cerberus need to be officially struck from canon. I enjoyed playing them but considered them fan fiction as I played them.
>>332764852
> sell on Narrative or depth
Again, people have told/written stories about heroes and villains threatening the very earth itself since humans learned to communicate. It is the core of the fantasy genre going back way before Tolkien put pen to paper and even older than Beowulf when it was still oral tradition. The final fantasy games have always used that as a template to tell their stories.
What you are asking is for final fantasy to break away from the traditional fantasy template. You're going to have to give an example of a game in the same genre that successfully broke the mold.
you can get it down to two
>protags are oppressed
>middle middle middle, you kill god
also normies don't like FF anymore.
>mfw Final Fan
feels bad. maybe you'll get it when there are as many CoD games as Now albums.
>The "normie" meme has gotten so overused that it's being used to describe final fantasy players
Please, Diane. Normies don't play video games aside from smartphone apps and CoD.
>>332759610
>I have never played an FF game
Diane please, most of those just apply to JRPGs as a whole rather than FF in particular.
>>332765948
>Cloud
He wasn't even whiny or angsty in the original game or crisis core, they made him like that later in advent children.
>Lightning
As much she is the most hated MC in the series, she wasn't hated for that, but because FFXIII in general and how Square forced her so much as if she was the face of the franchise
>Tidus
He was very optimistic outside of his daddy issues and existential crisis after knowing he didn't exist
I give you maybe Cecil but even was that angsty mostly thanks to his development, neither Squall.
>>332759610
Nobody calls it deep or complex, you're projecting
>>332763394
None, unless he wants to count deaths at the ending and the death of the prologue character that you control for all of 3 minutes.
>>332759610
>>332759610
I'll tell you what OP. Try Radiant Historia. I've been playing it recently (after sitting in my back catalogue for two years) and must say that it's a bit different in its story telling from most of what's out there. I think you may enjoy it for that and also it's superior writing. It will not treat you like a child and does not pull punches in its narrative.
