>Refined mechanics
>More engaging story
>Sense of direction
>Fixed PVP
>No flipping Havels
The only point I'll concede is the sense of space and world continuity in DaS. Any other arguments are just nostalgia.
>>332723512
>Refined mechanics
>More engaging story
>Sense of direction
>Fixed PVP
I forgot what day it was, you got me for a second there.
>>332724260
Added bonus:
>No Blighttown
Soul memory.
>>332723512
>Refined mechanics
Some of it yeah.
>More engaging story
It's the same story with a different coat of paint which makes it inherently disinteresting.
>Fixed PVP
No they both have problems.
>No flipping Havels
This was fixed in patch 1.05.
>>332725430
>It's the same story with a different coat of paint which makes it inherently disinteresting.
I meant more about the undead curse. Way more fleshed out, way more intriguing. Lighting (or not lighting) the kiln at the end to perpetuate or extinguish the age of fire is the central point of both games, I'll agree.
>>332723512
This is low-quality bait, mon ami.
>>332725767
Bearer seek seek lest
>>332725574
That doesn't make it better, just different. Otherwise I respect your opinion. The idea of exploring hollowing is pretty cool, unfortunately nothing very interesting was done
>>332726084
It does kind of retcon why NPCs like Siegmeyer and Crestfallen go hollow other than "Welp. They died enough times."
>>332723512
That's not really saying much because Dark Souls was garbage.
Reminder that DeS has the best
>bosses
>atmosphere
>level design
>combat (faster and more fluid than DkS)
>weapon design
>armor design
>invasion system
>mechanics (grass over estus, mana over spell uses, being in soul form actually has consequences)
And finally it was actually a complete game and didn't have downright pitiful, half-assed shit like Ash Lake, Anor Londo Castle, Lost Izalith, Demon Ruins, or the same Asylum Demon boss recycled three times. And it actually explained basic game mechanics unlike Dark Souls with kindling, Estus upgrades, and weapon upgrades. It also didn't cater to "le so hardcore xDD" memers and was never meant to be arbitrarily difficult, but was just meant to be punishing so victories felt more fulfilling and rewarding.
>>332726321
Well no it's the same in either game. Give up and you're fucked. DSII makes it so with hollowing a person loses their memories and are inherently attracted to the First Flame.
>>332726494
And an NPC that will destroy your game.
>>332726559
I could be mistaken, but I didn't think that that was established until II. I mean, why did Gwyn hollow then?
>>332726713
He burned his soul
>>332726494
I don't think I've ever read so much contrarian bullshit in a single post.
>>332726713
>but I didn't think that that was established until II
No, if you constantly save Siegmeyer he loses his nerve.
> I mean, why did Gwyn hollow then?
He burned his soul and had been in the Kiln for a long time.
>>332726806
That's a huge lore point that I have no excuse for forgetting.
>>332723512
DaS also had more diverse bosses.
>>332723512
You're absolutely right, see that's why Miyazaki san himself decided to take DaS2 mechanics into DaS3.
Everyone keeps saying how it's like the original DaS, it's not, people already proved that the under-the-hood mechanics are all DaS2.
>>332726839
Upon replaying Dark Souls, it's not very good.
>too much focus on weapons/build over mechanical skill/gameplay
>too slow, too much delay when rolling or attacking (like a 500ms delay for rolling or shield raising)
>only caters to people who know the ins and outs of the game, specific builds, enemy weaknesses, regardless of those players' actual skill
>trying to fit everything into one interconnected world makes it convoluted and confusing; often unclear where you need to go or what you need to do
>many of the key mechanics are poorly explained (lordvessel, upgrading estus, kindling bonfires, pardoning, etc)
>key characters for vital weapons, armor, pyro, miracles, and sorceries are a pain to find and severely limit your options and hamper the game experience
>worlds feel empty and sterile (Anor Londo castle, Duke's Archives, Ash Lake, Lost Izalith, etc)
>many bosses are underwhelming or poorly designed (O&S, Priscilla, Capra, Quelaag, Pinwheel, Seath, Taurus, Ceaseless Discharge, bed of chaos)
>Hitboxes and i-frames are inconsistent
>game rewards simply running past enemies and rushing bosses over tactical play
>many mechanics are unfair first time (mimic chest, seath, Stray Demon floor collapsing, Anor Londo castle archers, bonfire at Sen's)
Overall, it's a mediocre game that's overhyped to hell, especially after playing the masterpiece that is Demon's Souls.
DeS has miles better world design and level design, and all the mechanics come naturally through progression of the story, and it doesn't obfuscate key characters or mechanics because "le so hard xD"
Dark Souls has lots of obscure, backwards bullshit, partially just because the level design is terrible and they purposely hide key characters and mechanics, but also because they decided to go for the interconnected world to full scale gimmick and sacrificed pacing, and world building simply for the player to be able to say "oh, that's cool, I can see another part of the world from here"
>>332727329
The April Fool's is real here.
>>332723512
Soul Memory.
>>332727329
That's one thing that bugged me about DaS and even Bloodborne: to follow a side character's quest line it often requires you to backtrack and search areas you've already explored in order to find them. They tuck them away in corners of the map that you've already been to, and have no reason to return to. One that comes to mind is the pyromancer in DaS who goes to fucking Blighttown for the conclusion of his quest. Why would I logically ever go back to Blighttown?
It really is like they try to hide key components of the game from you. And the ones that are readily available are, like you said, poorly explained.
>>332724260
>>332727558
So we can't have actual civil discussions on the 1st of april? Nigga what are you, 6?
Grow the fuck up and realize that what's being said here is truth!
It probably had the best final boss out of the three games but that's not saying much
>>332727764
Which?
>>332723512
>>Sense of direction
Yeah you can't get lost in those linear maps.
>>332727828
Bb had the best final boss, DaS being the second best, assuming you don't count the old king as the final boss, because there's actually another boss after him.
>>332727329
>too much focus on weapons/build over mechanical skill/gameplay
Examples? Having played DeS I mean yeah there's less focus on builds but they both focus on gameplay all the same. And the more customization options is certainly a plus for Dark Souls.
>too slow, too much delay when rolling or attacking (like a 500ms delay for rolling or shield raising)
So compensate what the fuck kind of complaint is this 500ms you weirdo.
>only caters to people who know the ins and outs of the game, specific builds, enemy weaknesses, regardless of those players' actual skill
That's not true at all what.
>trying to fit everything into one interconnected world makes it convoluted and confusing; often unclear where you need to go or what you need to do
Untrue.
>many of the key mechanics are poorly explained (lordvessel, upgrading estus, kindling bonfires, pardoning, etc)
This is partly true. Nothing a player who isn't incompetent couldn't understand.
>key characters for vital weapons, armor, pyro, miracles, and sorceries are a pain to find and severely limit your options and hamper the game experience
They're not a pain at all what.
>worlds feel empty and sterile (Anor Londo castle, Duke's Archives, Ash Lake, Lost Izalith, etc)
Sterile is a personal problem considering the world is empty it's the end of the Age Of Fire.
>many bosses are underwhelming or poorly designed (O&S, Priscilla, Capra, Quelaag, Pinwheel, Seath, Taurus, Ceaseless Discharge, bed of chaos)
Underwhelming is your own problem, Ceaseless and others aren't the best designed you're right.
>Hitboxes and i-frames are inconsistent
I mean I've never had a problem with it.
>game rewards simply running past enemies and rushing bosses over tactical play
Does it?
>many mechanics are unfair first time (mimic chest, seath, Stray Demon floor collapsing, Anor Londo castle archers, bonfire at Sen's)
Oh fuck off the archers are easy as shit, and the bonfire at Sen's is unnecessary.
>>332727927
I have no problem with some degree of linearity. At least I'm not stumbling around in the Valley of the Drakes at SL 3 trying to figure out which way's progress.
>>332727716
Nigger you literally tell Laurentius to go to blighttown
>>332725110
You're right, blightown 1.5 with a worthless torch mechanic is so much better
>>332727828
I thought Aldia was better than king allant and gwyn.
>>332728017
>Ur wrong! xD
>one word meme responses
>works for me :DDD
Simply epic argument my friend.
>>332728135
(Insert two dozen other instances throughout DaS-BB)
>>332725212
Both systems have matchmaking issues
>>332728280
SM is the only one that ruins coop.
>>332728230
Gutter was shite, completely agreed. At least it didn't have the frame rate issues.
>>332727329
>>332728017
The Stray Demon is optional content otherwise yeah. The mimic chest is debatable but I don't feel like debating it.
>Overall, it's a mediocre game that's overhyped to hell, especially after playing the masterpiece that is Demon's Souls.
No. It's a good game you don't suddenly get to revise history. The fact that you prefer DeS is fine.
>DeS has miles better world design and level design
Miles no, overall more consistent, yes.
>and it doesn't obfuscate key characters or mechanics because "le so hard xD"
That was marketing. Dark Souls had the same design philosophy as Demon's Souls. You'd know this if you read interviews.
>partially just because the level design is terrible
It's not terrible what is your yardstick for terrible level design?
> they purposely hide key characters and mechanics
Like who, what?
>sacrificed pacing, and world building simply for the player to be able to say "oh, that's cool, I can see another part of the world from here"
The pacing is absolutely fine and the world building is fine.
>>332728250
What? Were you replying to somebody else?
>Weebs and e celebs get it a month earlier because
This is bullshit in the grand scheme of things. So mad atm desu senpai
I think Dark souls 2 is one of those games where the dlc is miles better than the vanilla game
>>332728478
What does desu stand for?
>>332728503
With the exception of Old Iron King, I completely agree.
>>332728619
It's a japanese sneezing senpai
>>332728619
Demon Souls Universe
>>332728503
No shit, the original games director got replaced by tanimura, when tanimura asked to restart, Bandai wouldn't have it, he had to salvage what was already more than halfway done, whereas the DLC's were worked on by Tanimura from the start, also I think Miyazaki helped with the first one.
>>332728017
The revisionist history of Soulsfags with hundreds of hours of experience acting like mechanics in Dark Souls aren't completely obfuscated and convoluted is really downright hilarious. There is absolutely no way you could be expected to understand the lordvessel, kindling bonfires, pardoning, getting back to the asylum, knowing the locations of many of the key NPCs, etc. without trial and error or using a guide.
Demon's Souls had great level design and relied on great level design and enemy encounter design and tigh gameplay for a satisfying experience that was punishing to make victories more satisfying, and force the player to learn the game, while Dark Souls simply makes key mechanics and items unnecessarily obscure for the sake of "difficulty"
The environments look like shit, the bosses are boring, the story isn't there when it should be and 40 minutes of cutscenes and dialogue where it shouldn't.
>>332728723
This man understands.
>>332728381
Demon's Souls was never designed to be difficult. Dark Souls was designed specifically just to be difficult and the marketing with "prepare to die" was to help it appeal to memespouters and children.
>>332728624
I thought Sir Alonne was a cool boss
personally what ruined sunken king for me were the bosses, I didn't think they were good
Whens it go on sale again?
>>332728907
Sir Alonne was fucking cool as hell. The rest of the DLC gave me a headache.
>>332729008
I liked all DLC but every gauntlet leading to some bosses were pure fucking cancer
>Outskirts
>Alonne dream
>Iron Passage
>Poison / Petrify cave before gank squad
Those were lazy and unacceptable.
>>332723512
>i got btfo in the other thread so i made another one
>>332726494
>bosses
stopped reading there, sorry
>>332729268
>iron passage
jesus fuck this triggers me
>ran through that place so much that the enemies despawned after a while
>after finally beating blue smelter I find out he wasnt even require to beat the dlc and the rewards were shit
>>332729335
Well, you're welcome here. I really just wanted to talk about Dark Souls. I've had a few beers and none of my friends play vidya.
>>332723512
>DaS3 about to come out
>DaS2 fags still at it
>>332729408
Blue Smelter was far and away the most frustrating boss to me. Which is really saying something, because regular Smelter Demon was a fucking bitch. I wound up having to take an hour break to cool off.
>>332729459
Gotta justify buying a bad game not once, but twice
>>332728893
>Demon's Souls was never designed to be difficult
I know.
>Dark Souls was designed specifically just to be difficult and the marketing with "prepare to die" was to help it appeal to memespouters and children.
No it wasn't. You'd know it wasn't if you had read interviews. The difficulty marketing was Bamco.
> aren't completely obfuscated and convoluted is really downright hilarious
Okay like what?
>There is absolutely no way you could be expected to understand the lordvessel
It tells you, with a big message across your screen, you can now warp at bonfires. You sit at a bonfire, there is now a warp function. Very convoluted I know.
>kindling bonfires
>Select kindle
>Cannot kindle while hollow/Need Humanity
>Reverse hollowing
>Need Humanity
>Humanity items on corpse nearby
>Use it
>Figure it out
Fuck man it's not hard.
>pardoning
Yeah I give you that.
>getting back to the asylum,
Talking to Crestfallen Merchant he tells you he saw someone go to the top of the tower, sit, and get taken by the crow.
>knowing the locations of many of the key NPCs
Like who? What key NPCs are hidden from the game that require you to complete the game?
>without trial and error or using a guide.
Trial and error is built into DeS and Dark Souls this isn't some inherent flaw. Have you not played video games before, they've been trial and error since their INCEPTION.
And you don't need a friggen guide jesus.
>Demon's Souls had great level design and relied on great level design and enemy encounter design and tigh gameplay for a satisfying experience that was punishing to make victories more satisfying
I agree.
>while Dark Souls simply makes key mechanics and items unnecessarily obscure for the sake of "difficulty"
Untrue. You learn the game through playing the game just like Demon's Souls. You don't even need to know about kindling to complete the game. You don't need to know about pardoning to complete the game. You don't need to go back to the asylum.
>coolest boss ever
>his armor set requires 50 loyce souls to get
>>332728893
>Dark Souls was designed specifically just to be difficult and the marketing with "prepare to die" was to help it appeal to memespouters and children.
You're L I T E R A L L Y mistaking Dark Souls for Dark Souls 2
>>332728017
>Examples? Having played DeS I mean yeah there's less focus on builds but they both focus on gameplay all the same.
This really applies to both, but is more obvious on DkS due to the slower paced gameplay
>So compensate what the fuck kind of complaint is this 500ms you weirdo.
So massive input lag for the sake of difficulty is totally acceptable and basically I just need to deal with it? Nice
>That's not true at all what.
Yes it is. Knowing the best builds, item locations, and enemy weaknesses allows you to breeze through with few issues and little skill required.
>Untrue.
Dark Souls level design (beyond "oh cool, the world is connected!") is downright awful and is convoluted as all hell. Open world doesn't always equal good. DeS is technically linear in nature, but its level design is vastly superior, with all routes eventually leading to the end of the level without needing to poke around aimlessly throughout the world to see where the game wants you to go next.
>This is partly true. Nothing a player who isn't incompetent couldn't understand.
>They're not a pain at all what.
Yes, a player with 100s of hours experience who has the mechanics and NPC locations ingrained in his mind will have no issues since it's all muscle memory at this point. A new player will need to use trial and error or a guide to locate these vital NPCs in obscure places. The game does little to even help you with basic information and mechanics. Again, Dark Souls' "difficulty" comes from obscuring items, NPCs, and mechanics, rather than great game design where you learn from mistakes to get good.
>Sterile is a personal problem considering the world
The plot is irrelevant in a game like this. Your silly plot that no one gives two shits about should cause the last half of the game to be bland, uninspired garbage.
>Underwhelming is your own problem,
Mechanically, the mechanics, encounter design, AI, camera, and/or hitboxes of these bosses are all pretty awful.
>>332723512
>Fixed PVP
More like no PVP
>>332728893
>Dark Souls was designed specifically just to be difficult and the marketing with "prepare to die" was to help it appeal to memespouters and children
but thats dark souls 2
dark souls 2 even had a cheevo you get for dying called this is dark souls
>our game is hard git gud XD
>>332729618
>Trial and error is built into DeS and Dark Souls this isn't some inherent flaw. Have you not played video games before, they've been trial and error since their INCEPTION.
Trial and error gameplay is different from trial and error of exploring every corner of the world to find some necessary NPC. Like the piece of shit blacksmith hidden under a fucking cliff.
>>332729618
>Like who? What key NPCs are hidden from the game that require you to complete the game?
Nobody "necessary" to complete the game, but most people like finding all the side quests, or damn close to doing so.
>>332729934
>>332729770
Dark Souls 2 was actually good. It had much better level design and was actually complete. At least they tried to make it difficult through gameplay rather than hiding key gameplay mechanics, items, and key NPCs from the player
>>332729770
You're right on this one, friend. Artificial difficulty is in DaS II's genetic makeup.
>>332729797
>So massive input lag for the sake of difficulty is totally acceptable and basically I just need to deal with it? Nice
Dark Souls was created with Demon's Souls philosophy what part of this are you not understanding.
Can you please compile a webm of this 500ms lag being absolutely crucial to gameplay because this is the first time I've ever seen such a complaint. I don't doubt its existence, I doubt the legitimacy of its effects on gameplay.
>Yes it is.
No, it is not. Its not true that the game solely caters to people who know its ins and outs, if it was true it wouldn't have the following that it has. You're absolutely right that it rewards people who have played the game. Kind of like every video game in existence.
> is downright awful and is convoluted as all hell
Convoluted: (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
Dark Souls' level design is not difficult to follow. It's the exact opposite, that's why it was so well received.
> Open world doesn't always equal good
In this case it is considering when DSII was released it's a prime complaint that it is not as interconnected.
>DeS is technically linear in nature, but its level design is vastly superior, with all routes eventually leading to the end of the level without needing to poke around aimlessly throughout the world to see where the game wants you to go next.
This sounds like a personal preference more than anything. I'll say it again, Demon's Souls level design is more consistently good than Dark Souls, yes. You preferring the linear nature is your preference and that's cool. Don't ding the game for it.
> A new player will need to use trial and error or a guide to locate these vital NPCs in obscure places
There is nothing wrong with trial and error gameplay where is this coming from?
>Guide
You do not need a guide to play the Souls games why is this an argument we're having in 2016? Dark Souls was released in 2011 and 2012.
>>332723512
>nb4 shill
Unrelated, but there's a streamer called Plague of Gripes who does a really good, in depth examination of the lore and mechanics of Dark Souls on YouTube. Very thought-provoking, and he exposes some of its flaws, too. Would recommend.
Demon's Souls
>each level is like a unique adventure
>can start in any of the five worlds
>tons of nooks and crannies to explore and shortcuts, but all paths lead to the end of the level
>gameplay requires you to learn from mistakes, master enemy patterns, and use your abilities and items effectively
Dark Souls
>world is a convoluted mess
>only one main path to take that you need to figure out through trial and error
>All the key NPCs are hidden in some far corner of the map
>none of the basic mechanics are explained at all
>half your time is spent aimlessly wandering to figure out what arbitrary bullshit the game wants you to do next or what random fucking item you need
>whole world is one big giant fucking maze because the devs decided to make everything interconnected to scale
>>332730293
Your argument to why you don't need a guide is that the games came out years ago, so you can look up the information. Ergo, a guide.
>>332726494
>combat (faster and more fluid than DkS)
the only real point i agree with. but to be fair it's a pretty big point
>>332730117
explain the earthen peak to iron keep transition then
that wasnt good level design
>>332730689
Now THAT was some shitty design. No excuse for that blunder.
Also, guys, first time on /v/, and let me just say, you guys are so much better than the hyenas on /pol/.
>>332730689
I'd rather have good, well-designed levels, who the fuck cares how they interconnect? Dark Souls focused way too much on making everything connect and transition perfectly that actual level layout design was garbage.
>>332730626
I'm actually glad they went full linear with DaS3. The level design feel more like DeS then ever (but with less gimmicky areas like 2-2).
>>332726494
>it was actually a complete game
So how about those frost giants.;_;
>>332730293
>>332729797
> The game does little to even help you with basic information and mechanics
Like what? The developer messages at the asylum teach you everything about gameplay. You learn to block arrows once the message tells you how to quip a shield, etc.
>Again, Dark Souls' "difficulty" comes from obscuring items, NPCs, and mechanics, rather than great game design where you learn from mistakes to get good.
I've already rebuffed this stop saying that.
>The plot is irrelevant in a game like this. Your silly plot that no one gives two shits about should cause the last half of the game to be bland, uninspired garbage.
Are you fucking mad? The plot and lore is 50% why Dark Souls was received the way it was you fucking madman. Have you been living under a sodding rock for the past five years?!
>Mechanically, the mechanics, encounter design, AI, camera, and/or hitboxes of these bosses are all pretty awful.
For who? For what? Good god stop being cryptic and say what you want to say.
>>332729970
It's trial and error to find Griggs who sells sorceries? It's trial and error to find Big Hat Logan who sells sorceries? It's trial and error to find Rickert? That's called exploring in an open world game what the hell is the matter with you?
>>332729985
All the side quests are optional that's part of why Dark Souls was well received, it feels like the NPCs act independently of the player and you can miss out on stories.
>>332730117
Dark Souls II had level design more akin to tis gameplay, yes, much to the detriment of immersive world building. Much to the chagrin of players who bought the game.
>>332730642
When I mention that the game came out years ago I mean that you didn't need a guide when it came out, when there wasn't one, and you don't need one now, despite there being ones all over the internet.
>>332730906
The AI in Iron Keep is literally so bad you can cause the knights to crash into each other because they are on train tracks.
>>332730914
>I'm actually glad they went full linear with DaS3. The level design feel more like DeS then ever
Say it ain't so m8
I was just watching some gameplay thinking "shit this really looks similar to Demon's Souls" but I was bummed because I knew that open world bullshit would always hold them back.
But if they went back to linear, then shit, I may get Dark Souls III day one now
>>332730626
Demon's Souls
>each level is linear and there is no cohesion to the broader gameworld. where the fuck is the nexus exactly? why do i start the game in some nondescript castle?
>can go to any world at any time so the difficulty curve is all over the pace
>grass is incredibly easy to exploit and renders any difficult level null and void
Dark Souls
>world is cleverly designed so no 2 points are too far away from each other to travel there by foot, but still arranged with a logical order in mind to keep the difficulty steady
>encourages exploration by hiding items and NPCs enhancing sense of player accomplishment
>all of the basic mechanics are explained in the first level actually
>>332731019
those alonne knights were such bullshit
>heavy armor
>runs like fucking sanic
>>332731113
Outdated image but its pretty much a straight line with two paths and three optional areas.
>>332731130
>literally being a lorefag so much that you don't care about shit level design and gameplay because "m-muh lore!"
>>332730626
>world is a convoluted mess
Convoluted: (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
Dark Souls' level design is not difficult to follow. It's the exact opposite, that's why it was so well received.
>only one main path to take that you need to figure out through trial and error
What does this mean? Say what you want to say stop this cryptic crap.
>All the key NPCs are hidden in some far corner of the map
No they are not.
>none of the basic mechanics are explained at all
Yes they are, in teh asylum.
>half your time is spent aimlessly wandering to figure out what arbitrary bullshit the game wants you to do next or what random fucking item you need
Exploring is not bad, and the level design works so you're never too far away from another place because shortcuts are plentiful did you ever fucking play the game.
>whole world is one big giant fucking maze because the devs decided to make everything interconnected to scale
A "maze" is difficult to get lost in. Dark Souls is not.
>>332723512
Fuck off. DaSII didn't give a shit about anything that had previously been set in stone
Literally replaying it this past week. Today i found a "Dark Pyromancy Flame"
It gets stronger the more Hollow you are. It's a DARK. PYROMANCY flame. That's literally the opposite of how this shit works.
Why is half the shit in Dark Souls 2 even there? What point does the Huntsmans Copse serve? Why is it there? Why is there a Volcano on top of a stone tower?
>>332730906
>level layout design was garbage.
1. it wasn't
2. because the world is interconnected doesn't mean the level design is inherently bad. you can make any level any shape and size and still connect it with a passage, cliff path, lift etc.
the only people who complain about soul memory are those who liked to invade at level 1 with +10 weapons and armor
in other words:
FLAMING HOT FAGGOTS
>>332731242
>did you ever fucking play the game.
Soulsbabby on full damage control
>>332730906
>that actual level layout design was garbage.
What is your yardstick for this you didn't answer me when I asked you before.
>>332730983
Your British is showing. You are right about plot and lore.
Do not like missing out on stories because I missed a guy stuck in a barrel in a side room in a sewer
>>332731019
Knights walk into the lava all the time in that zone. Extremely poor pathing.
>>332731217
Level design is essential but lore is an integral part of these games. I wouldn't play them otherwise.
>>332731319
The A team implemented the much more obvious and less detrimental solution in DaS3 of having the weapon upgrade level be a second determining factor when playing PvP.
>>332731389
>but lore is an integral part of these games. I wouldn't play them otherwise.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>332731254
Huntsman's Copse is the laziest area in the entire series. Agreed.
>>332731217
the entire game might as well take place in a series of grey boxes then, as long as they are WELL DESIGNED right?
>>332731334
You didn't respond to my point at all what are you doing? Am I being coaxed into a snafu?
>>332731389
>Do not like missing out on stories because I missed a guy stuck in a barrel in a side room in a sewer
I can see why you dislike that, but for me it only adds to the experience knowing "whoa I missed a whole side character and their quest?"
>>332731467
Are you guffawing because you doubt the accuracy of the statement? Because he's not alone. Dark Souls' lore and plot are half the reason why the game was received the way it was, it was interesting and in keeping with the game's theme.
>>332731467
I truly don't like the gameplay mechanics that much. I play them for the stories the items, bosses, and locales tell. Yes, I am a faggot.
>>332731242
>Dark Souls' level design is not difficult to follow. It's the exact opposite, that's why it was so well received.
Yes it is
>What does this mean? Say what you want to say stop this cryptic crap.
DeS offers five paths. Dark Souls shoehorns you down a specific path but makes it seem like there's more than one (eg the graveyard skeletons), then you have to trial and error to figure out where to go
>No they are not.
Yes, they actually are. Knowing where there at due to hundreds of experience doesn't change that.
>Yes they are, in teh asylum.
Not sure if retarded, but there's a hell of a lot more to mechanics than controls
>Exploring is not bad, and the level design works so you're never too far away from another place because shortcuts are plentiful did you ever fucking play the game.
Exploring isn't but aimlessly wandering because the game purposely keeps you in the dark is
>A "maze" is difficult to get lost in. Dark Souls is not.
What the fuck am I reading?
DaS2 is just so sad.
1 step forward and 10 backwards.
The things they did right were good and needed but the things they did wrong makes it the worst of the series.
A pity.
>>332731901
>A "maze" is difficult to get lost in. Dark Souls is not.
I got lost in the Depths TODAY.
>>332731572
>claim I didn't play the game
>I BTFO you
>b-but that w-wasn't my point!! I was m-merely pretending to be retarded!!
DAMAGE CONTROL WALKING INTO THE RING
>>332723512
>lazy "pipe" level designs instead of well-planned interconnected areas like in DaS1
>99% of enemies are boring humanoids with similiar movesets
>too many enemies are copy-pasted from previous game
>>332731901
>Yes it is
You don't get to do that are you mental!? Are you seriously dismissing the fact that Dark Souls' level design was so well received BECAUSE of its interconnectedness, BECAUSE of the shortcuts, BECAUSE of how easy it is to follow?
>DeS offers five paths. Dark Souls shoehorns you down a specific path but makes it seem like there's more than one (eg the graveyard skeletons), then you have to trial and error to figure out where to go
This is true. But after the Parish you have the Darkroot Garden open to you, or Depths. If you have the Master Key you have Undead Burg or Blighttown. After you attain the Lordvessel you can either go to the Demon Ruins, the Tomb Of the Giants, or Seath's pad. Otherwise I somewhat agree with you.
>Yes, they actually are. Knowing where there at due to hundreds of experience doesn't change that.
What corner is Ricket hidden in, I ask you? Immediately beneath Firelink Shrine? You find these "key" NPCs just by playing the sodding game. You find Griggs behind the locked door in lower Burg, he returns to Firelink. You find Big Hat Logan after busting down the wall with the mechanism, he returns to Firelink. You find Laurentius in a barrel, he returns to Firelink. You find these people simply by playing the game. I understand the convenience of having a blacksmith and such in the Nexus, but Dark Souls' method is far more interesting.
>Not sure if retarded, but there's a hell of a lot more to mechanics than controls
We already established kindling and all of that are not vital elements to completing the game.
>Exploring isn't but aimlessly wandering because the game purposely keeps you in the dark is
Because you do not like it does not mean thousands of other players did not. Anecdote to anecdote, I loved wandering around Lordran free from any real notion of objective and finding shit on my own.
To be honest I do like a lot of the lore of Daso2 over the rest, particularly how well the DLC managed to sell the game.
-The fragments of darkness' different effects over great men in history. Particularly the tragedy of the Iron King's fragment of darkness and the Ivory King's wife who was turned.
-The Iron King's insecurity and Alonne's 'betrayal'.
-How much of a goddamn G the Ivory King was (like seriously, he borders on being TOO much of a badass, dwarfing every other character in the game easy).
-Vendricks conundrum of a queen he loves, but is doing everything she can to destroy his accomplishments.
-Vendricks left and right hand men's clash.
-The utter futility of the war against the giants, for a reason that is still mostly obfuscated.
-Pretty much everything Aldia, Aldia was also a huge badass, essentially breaking the chain of the undead curse.
There's more too, but that's what stands out at the top of my head. I felt like they worked pretty hard on making a fairly cohesive and interesting story in contrast to the other games (not that theirs is bad, but Daso2 feels more fleshed out to me).
They're all good in their own way, though. I felt like the Sunken King's story was the least interesting but even it had a pretty fun area and really tough and fun fights.
Come on guys do we really need to argue about who likes what?
>>332732417
Too many humanoid bosses, I'll agree. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I get overwhelmed if there are 50 different pathways with no discernible objective. As for the regular enemies, I have no issues.
>>332728230
Gutter was____fun___, and would have loved if more areasrequired torches to navigate around
>>332732489
>>332731901
>What the fuck am I reading?
Someone, not sure if it was you, said the world is a big fucking maze. Maze implies you can get lost in it easily, but Dark Souls is easy to navigate.
>>332732115
You still haven't responded to my point of:
>Exploring is not bad, and the level design works so you're never too far away from another place because shortcuts are plentiful
>>332732489
>I loved wandering around Lordran free from any real notion of objective and finding shit on my own.
Knew Dark Souls was for autists
>>332732489
>Kindling not vital to the game
Come on, man. You want to walk around with 5 charges all the time?
>>332732650
D A M A G E
A
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C O N T R O L
O
N
T
R
O
L
>>332732514
Vendrick is a character of almost Shakespearian tragedy.
>>332732762
It's not necessary. I only kindle if I have liquid humanity to spare
>>332732704
*farts*
>>332732762
I'd rather not of course but it is not vital, and it is easy to figure out if you are not incompetent. We have established this. Yes though, I gave that other guy I don't even know who at this point, the fact that DeS doesn't have these mechanics to explain and that is indeed a plus if you want it to be.
>>332732809
DAMAGED
A
M
A
G
E
D
>>332732514
DSII's lore is nice, the bits that don't retread the first game. Vendrick is one of my favorite parts of DSII, and the feeling of hopelessness is hammered home far more succinctly in it than the first game. The Giants were great too.
>>332723512
>poise
>npc invasions have shitload of hp
>character barely turn midswings
>iframes tied to stat
>some hitbox issuesbut I guess this is series' FEATURE by this point
Atmosphere was better in Das, DaS2 had better music, but it wasnt placed too well. It has better pc port.
>>332732858
I wouldn't go so far, but for a video game he was a sufficiently tortured and diverse character that I wanted to learn more about. I really like the music that plays when you encounter him, it encapsulates his tragedy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnoZG6iCbjU
I would chill in his arena like I would in the Spider lady's bonfire just for the nice atmosphere.
>>332732762
Dude's a fucking idiot. The game could require you to find the fucking cure to cancer before you can level up and he'd still damage control and be like "b-but you can b-beat the game at SL1!!!" or "if you were p-paying attention in s-shool, you would already k-know the cure for cancer!"
He just can't accept Dark Souls is trash.
>start up ds1 on pc
>shit tier controls
>rpg elements pretty neat tho
>nice combat and world exploration
>fuck around for 10 hours before uninstalling
>get ds2 for pc
>everything runs perfectly
>dudes in armor syndrome but still fun
>200 hours played
I currently replaying 2 via SotfS and doing the DLCs for the first time.
If the DLC are supposed to be DaS2's saving grace then...I dunno man.
Sure they were better than the base game but they don't even begin to make das2 better than 1.
Even three dlc and one re release couldn't make up for das2 shittyness.
Welp I still have to beat sir alonne and blue smelter (lol) and then I can finally return it.
>>332733062
So you haven't been reading my posts? Stop getting unnecessarily nasty.
>b-but you can b-beat the game at SL1
But this is a legitimate point you goose.
>He just can't accept Dark Souls is trash.
What is your yardstick for trash games, what's your zero mark? Mine is Big Rigs. An untested, unpolished, trash game. Dark Souls is not Big Rigs.
>>332733119
Yeah it's mad shit without a controller but I've met folks who have shouldered through DaS with keyboard controls the madmen.
>>332732991
>>character barely turn midswings
Holy shit this.
Rolling attack after dodge is so fucking frustrating.
>>332733249
Dark Souls is not trash, confirmed. It has some rough aspects, but is considered by many, if not most, to be a major achievement in gaming (or at least storytelling in gaming).
I mean fuck I'm giving points to the persons who prefer DeS like the level design being more consistently good than Dark Souls, the amount of options available at the start as opposed to Dark Souls, etc. None of these make Dark Souls a bad game, and nobody will hang you for preferring Demon's Souls as a whole for its more overall polish. Jesus.
>>332733361
>Dark Souls
>good storytelling
Literally what the FUCK are you talking about?
>>332733502
Honest confession: OP, and have never played DeS.
>>332733515
do you think sotc has bad storytelling
>>332733502
>still damage controlling
Just let it go kid. I know you have to regurgitate the /v/ hivemind, but Dark Souls isn't all it's cracked up to be.
>>332733515
The innovative way in which they develop the detailed and intricate history of the ingame universe?
>>332733569
Golly gee color me shocked.
>>332733625
DAMAGED
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No but really it actually is. If you don't dig it it's cool though.
>>332733578
To anyone that has anything beyond an entry level taste in film, television, or literature? Yes, absolutely.
>>332733642
>detailed and intricate history of the ingame universe?
Almost had me there. Good one.
>>332733578
He's right though. Dark Souls is not revered for HOW it tells its story, which is pretty silly. There is no reason for Chosen Undead to have knowledge about the items he picks up. Dark Souls gets praise for the richness and how intricate its story/lore details are. Not for HOW it is told.
>>332733890
Namco literally has to pay people $10k to explain their own story because it's such convoluted garbage that they just made up as they went.
>>332733796
Oh, don't be an elitist, dude. I don't have a lot of time to play, I'm not going to go back to the first title how ever many years after it came out.
>>332733802
the reason sotc gets its praise is because it manages to use the medium of a video game as the platform to essentially force you to ask the questions yourself, something that isn't really quite as capable in other forms of entertainment. I would argue the souls games aren't quite on the same level (they lay out a little too much), but being able to use your medium to pioneer a different form of approach to storytelling is a sign of good storytelling, imo.
I wouldn't argue the souls games are quite on the same level, but you're probably a dead ass troll regardless considering that you're even comparing them to real forms of art with generations of development.
>>332733802
The way in which they mix legend, myth, and historical fact is way cool to me. I really like it.
>>332734058
I'm not trying to be an elitist, sorry if I came off as such. I'm just frustrated that this thread went on for as long as it did.
>>332734015
I definitely think they made it up as they went on, but it came out very good and succinct; it's not convoluted at all. There is an exact consensus on the events that happen in Dark Souls, the "their own story" things you refer to are things like "Smough held resentment for Ornstein that's why he smashes his head if you take Ornstein out first."
>>332734278
Little details like that are cool. Smough was denied being one of the Four Knights of Gwyn because he was a cannibal, it makes sense that he was resentful of Ornstein for his achievement of what he could never be.
>NO POWERSTANCING
>NO (CUSTOMIZE ABLE ) DUELWIELDING
>NO BONEFIRE ASCETICS FOR RESPAWNING BOSSES
I'm not sure how to feel about some of these changes....
>>332734448
I mean hey I don't have a problem with it personally, it just confuses me that people get so angry that these little fan ideas exist.
>>332734495
Bonfire Ascetics were just a cheap measure to become overleveled on a boss you can exploit.
>>332734650
No, no. Part of what I love about the series is how open-ended the lore is. The imagination of the player can fill in the blanks, or one can take it for what is explicit. I agree; you're delusional if you get upset people don't agree with your fancanon.
>>332734676
Or for people that actually wanted the boss weapons/rings on their first play through.
>>332734835
Been a year or so since I played DaSII, but I think I just popped those sons of bitches for souls. All the weapons sucked dick, if I recall. Like Vendrick's sword, which required like 1m souls on your person to have a proper damage output.
>>332734676
They were also a means to add ALOT of replay value by giving you a reaon to refight bosses for upgraded ring, hidden boss weapons and spells, and other things.
I think they went too hard on the whole "das2 was a mistake" and removed too many of it's good mechanics.
>>332728230
they were unique and added a change of pace by forcing you to ditch your shield or duel wielding
>>332734974
I haven't seen much of the new game. Is the dynamic lighting they promised in DaSII actually going to appear in this one?
>Dark Souls comes out
>Has amazing world design
>Everyone is blown away by how much effort was obviously put into something that isn't essential, shows up in TECHNOLOGY threads and the like
>DS2 comes out
>Improves upon core mechanics, but drops some of the polish of DS
>Suddenly core mechanics aren't important and the world building is ESSENTIAL to be a proper souls game
Have you fucks never played Demon's Souls? Is this just the easiest part of DS2 for shitposters to cling onto or what?
souls series noob, started playing sotfs
cautious af, rekt by pursuer
slowly understand how to play
beating fume was awesome
having fun
>>332735167
Other than Demon Souls, which is apparently your favorite, which Souls game are you most partial to?
>>332735189
Fume? Let me tell you. That was a bitch and a half.
>>332735167
Well Soul Memory really left a bad taste in people's mouth, couple that with the lesser world design and polish, the rehashed story, etc.
Power stancing is GOAT addition though.
>>332735227
This is my favorite /v/ meme. Instead of addressing any of my points, you ask me to explicitly state my game preferences so you can begin to attack my tastes.
Eat. Shit.
>>332727739
>using swears
get out
>>332735167
>effort was obviously put into something that isn't essential, shows up in TECHNOLOGY threads and the like
Elaborate
>>332735319
I was genuinely asking you. This is my first time on /v/.I'll tell you that I think mechanics are more important than aesthetic pleasantry, but that story and lore are almost as important as gameplay. Do you have a favorite?
>>332735445
When discussing DS, these neat little touches were treated as if they were icing on the cake.
When discussing DS2, these neat little touches are treated as if they're essential to the souls experience.
Does this clear up things?
>>332735289
i died like 20+ times learning his moveset
after beating him it was a glorious sense of achevement>even better than sephiroth on both KHs[\spoiler]
>>332735482
DS3 > DeS > DS2 > DS > your favorite game < BB
>>332723512
>The only point I'll concede is the sense of space and world continuity in DaS. Any other arguments are just nostalgia.
>Any other arguments are just nostalgia.
>Dark Souls
>Nostalgia
How the fuck can an argument for the game be nostalgic when the game is only 5 years old?
>>332735539
It's not that it was essential, just a downgrade. The worst part about it all is that we had threads for two years blaming the new director or the "b-team" when it was executive meddling that fucked it over.
>>332735624
There's no need to be nasty. I thought everyone was having a good time talking about Dark Souls.
>>332724260
This.
Bretty gud April Fools b8.
>>332735746
He's just meming, don't take it personnely
>>332735629
>2011 was 50000 years ago
>>332735539
No.
What showed up in technology threads exactly?
>>332723512
April fools xD
>>332735928
Seeing items and souls in lost izalith from tomb of the giants was always a big one
>>332735629
I'm nostalgic for my high school and that was only three years ago.
>>332732059
fucking how, its so small
>>332736152
I got poisoned by rats and ran frantically around for the bonfire. Stupid in retrospect.
>>332723512
Dark Souls > Bloodborne = Demon's Souls > Salt & Sanctuary > dogshit > Lords of the Fallen > Dark Souls 2
If DaS2 was called "Lords of the Fallen" nobody would remember about it by now.
>>332736107
That's not nostalgia, you're just going through withdrawal symptoms. Welcome to life where they try to stop you from having fun.
>>332736205
>bonfire
???
you mean the one you need the key for?
thats before the rats
if you see rats you've already gone too far
>>332736291
College isn't so bad. I joined a fraternity, and I get to have lots of fun. I just got D's on 2/5 midterms this semester and the weight of life is starting to press down on me. I'm sure it'll be fine.
>>332736416
Yes, the one I have the key for. Couldn't find it. Panicked. Got poisoned. Welcome to Firelink!
>>332736270
>Salt & Sanctuary > dogshit
Good one
>>332736437
>frat
>on /v/
why
>>332736549
Like I said: none of my friends (brothers) vidya.
>>332736490
you just needed to get thegud
>>332723512
>refined mechanics
>Fixed PVP
agree
>More engaging story
Subjective but no
>Sense of direction
Linear straight paths with zero complexity isn't a pro
>No flipping Havels
poise didn't matter in DaS2 so who gives a shit?
>>332736651
Always the cheese, never the gud, that's me.
>>332726494
Honestly though, I genuinely think that the second part of DaS is better than entirety of DaS2. Yeah, Lost Izalith sucks, but Duke's Archives, Tomb of the Giants and New Londo are pretty great if you ask me.
>>332736437
>fraternity
Get out, rapist
>>332736638
are you saying you like them because you have fun without vidya
or your waning yourself off vidya and like them for it, but again why would you still come to v
>>332736741
I don't want it to be like this. Please, don't.
>>332736741
YOURE A WHITE MALE
>>332736865
>Wife's son looks exactly like him
What a stupid image.
>>332736960
are you freaking kidding me!
>>332736510
Hey, out of the souls ripoffs and as far as indietrash "it's like that series you know and like only not as good" games go I think that S&S is easily the best. It's not worth 20$ though, that's for sure.
Yes, I consider DaS2 a "souls ripoff", because it really does feel like it.
>>332728707
Why the fuck did I laugh out loud
>>332737050
>out of the souls ripoffs and as far as indietrash "it's like that series you know and like only not as good" games go I think that S&S is easily the best
Setting the bar pretty high there, huh? lmao
>>332737113
The Chariot
Mirror Knight
The Rotten
Demon of Song
Smelter
Freja
All good bosses
>>332737274
What does good DS2 bosses have to do with my post?
>>332737047
>>332737372
I'm real drunk, so maybe nothing. My bad.
>>332737113
Still better than LoF and DaS2. I actually enjoyed S&S for like 1 playthrough.
>>332736785
I play vidya completely regardless of them. Not in spite. Not because of. I just like doing it. Will forever.
>>332731130
>why do i start the game in some nondescript castle?
The intro shows you walking through the fog to get to boleteria. You're an adventurer coming to boleteria to help / seek fortune / kill demons just like everyone else trapped in the nexus.
>can go to any world at any time so the difficulty curve is all over the pace
The difficulty for each level rises the farther you go through it. You can argue DaS has a wonky difficulty curve with shit like Catacombs.
>grass is incredibly easy to exploit and renders any difficult level null and void
Grass only becomes a problem if you farm or buy ridiculous amounts of it.
>>332726494
demons souls KIND OF had something going on
but still is the best of miazaki's work
the only reason it was popular was because gaming was at its lowest moment
and neogaf really shilled this game hard
demons souls had better direction of design.
it had a better homage to medieval combat mixed with the demonic supernatural, rather than going full retard random bullshit like in dark souls.
honestly, the best of the serious actually was demons souls, but the entire series itself was week to begin with.
i have just never been impressed with the whole giant bossfight gimmick. and most the combat and enemies are dull.
really, the game has been more about sony advertisement than actual gameplay
and it's shit like this which lowers everyones standards
>>332736785
I have fun, even though none of my brothers share my passion.
Stop posting this every single day.
>>332723512
10/10 epin troll XD
i love memes, post more funny memes newfriend.
>>332736734
>Tomb of the Giants
Get that shit taste out of here. It's Blighttown but slightly less garbage.
>8 rolling directions when locked on
>jumping on L3
>scaling isn't complete garbage
>peer connectivity doesn't suck complete ass
>more and better weapon infusions
>can be invaded when hollow
>less useless covenants
>armor variety
>no blighttown
>improved inventory
And then you have shit like SM, graphical downgrade, i-frames tied to ADP, durability loss tied to framerate, shockwaves, boring as fuck bosses, poise is some hyperarmor bullshit, NG+ red phantoms on top of a swarm of enemies, warp from the start, enemies that stop spawning, offensive miracles nerfed into oblivion, lack of full eye orb.
Dark Souls 3 is what Dark Souls 2 should have been.
>>332723512
Playing DaS2 now to prepare for DaS3, it's pretty good. Only major complaints I have is
>some boring areas
>low variety of enemies
>lore/story pretty much nonexsitent for the first half of the game
>cheesy areas and enemy combinations
They are also FAR more liberal with bonfires, but I honestly think that's pretty okay. I honestly thought DaS dropped of pretty hard after Anor Londo, but it's still a more memorable game overall. Oh, and Ashen branches of Yore can suck my fucking dick.
