1. Is Metroidvania tied to the standard Metroid / Castlevania 2D perspective?
2. Are Metroid and Castlevania really similar games? One seems to favor exploration and movement skills, the other melee timing and positioning.
3. If such genre exists, how would you move it forward?Metroid 3DS with 3D puzzles is my answer.
Pic perhaps related.
Since your last thread didnt go so well OP, have a bump
>>332662414
Thank you anon
I must get around to continuing my iji playthrough
>>332661268
>Is Metroidvania tied to the standard Metroid / Castlevania 2D perspective?
Yes.
>Are Metroid and Castlevania really similar games?
The Metroidvania Castlevanias and the 2D Metroids? Yes, they are.
>If such genre exists, how would you move it forward?
By keeping it a 2D sidescroller and coming up with new ideas within that framework.
1. No. But doing Metrdoidvania in 3D is extremely hard, which is also the reason why Prime has inferior map design for replays, and clearly marked exits
2. No
3. By making more games.
The entire genre is one gigantic dry lakes, with a few insanely shiny gems at the bottom(Symphony of the Night, Super Metroid), a lot of games that isn't in the lake, but is claimed because they have upgrades(Shantae and the Pirates Curse)
The lake is currently so dry that Axiom Verge got major PR and press, even if its mediocre as fuck, with lots of small flaws.
1. I don't think that the general approach of structuring your video game is exclusive to 2D for Metroidvania. The overall gameplay feel might be different, but the overall adventure remains the same. Metroid Prime plays like an Action-Adventure, while the original Metroid plays more like a shooter or jump 'n' run. However, this is only the very direct part of the gameplay. The overall progression is very alike in both titles.
2. Never played a Castlevania title, but always considered playing Castlevania as I like Metroid.
3. More budget. Seriously! Imagine a Metroidvania featuring a map comparable in size to open-world games, but WITHOUT the freedom of open-world games, and instead with much more items, routes, secrets and paths to discover and reach.
![99836e9335720e60a3c41d4bb587f6bd[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Y96geLi.jpg "99836e9335720e60a3c41d4bb587f6bd[1].jpg")
>>332661268
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. GREAT BIG TITTIES
>>332662996
3D is the optimal form for Metroidvania:
1. Take Souls-level of map design
(or Gothic or imagine Thief in 3D)
2. Make it futuristic (or not)
3. Insert Tomb Raider Last Revelation core moveset and enhance it
4. Have a team working on spatial puzzles
There you go.
>>332663127
Metroid Prime was very limited in gameplay due to its first person perspective. Once you got enough of the visor there wasn't much to do other than scan the shitty lore.
>>332663476
>Metroid Prime was very limited in gameplay due to its first person perspective. Once you got enough of the visor there wasn't much to do other than scan the shitty lore.
I disagree, but that's not the point. Even if Metroid Prime's gameplay was a horrible piece of shit, the overall adventure would still work. It may be a bad game, but not because it failed as a Metroidvania. I'm simply trying to show that I believe Metroidvania can work in 3D too. Alien Isolation, for example, plays nothing like Metroid or Castlevania, due to being a survival horror / stealth game, but has certain Metroidvania vibes to it, simply due to the map layout, backtracking possibilities, alternate paths, etc.
>>332661268
>1. Is Metroidvania tied to the standard Metroid / Castlevania 2D perspective?
Yes. The entire genre is defined by the map layout and general game progression.
It's basically shorthand for "2D sidescrolling game with a large interconnected seamless map that has some degree of area backtracking and secrets to find."
>2. Are Metroid and Castlevania really similar games? One seems to favor exploration and movement skills, the other melee timing and positioning.
See the above.
They're pretty different games mechanically but because they share a pretty unique structure they draw a lot of comparisons with each other, and with all the copycats on the indie market they ended up forming a weird subgenre together.
>3. If such genre exists, how would you move it forward?
By not blatantly trying to be Metroid and Castlevania and instead just using the same style of level mapping to do cool new things. The genre in its current definition is really limited and unhelpful, like back when sandbox games were all called Grand Theft Auto Clones.
Cave Story, La Mulana and The Iconoclasts are all interesting and cool indie games that technically fall into the subgenre but don't feel like reskinned romhacks like Environmental Station Alpha, Shadow Complex or Axiom Verge do.
>>332662996
>a lot of games that isn't in the lake, but is claimed because they have upgrades(Shantae and the Pirates Curse)
This always bothers me.
Pirates Curse literally has a level select and there's basically no reason to return somewhere after you've been there once. It's way closer to games like Monster World IV than Metroid.
>>332663769
Metroidvania in first person can only have a decent moveset if you make a Mirror's Edge clone and rely on verticality of maps. That said, it certainly is possible.
>>332663898
>The Iconoclasts
is there a dl link for this? torrents seem dry
>>332661268
"Trying to get free ideas because you i am so fucking retarded to make a good game" The Thread
>>332664416
I guess its because its just Greenlight yet. Once its out, it might actually seeded.
>>332664869
Metroidvania is more map design into powerups than actual ideas in the first place.
Its like Zelda, the sum is greater than its parts.
Its not something a indie can actually produce, unless they got a lot of experience and a lot of good workflow and planning.
>>332661268
>the other melee timing and positioning.
that's really only the early castlevania titles, later on it's all about finding power ups and grinding.
Prime killed the series by dividing the fanbase. Not that the Primes were bad games, but they never should have been called Metroid. Metroid, as a series, should be a 2D platformer and only a 2D platformer
>>332664416
There's a playable 2011 version of it on Konjak's website that cuts off after the first major area.
He scrapped the idea for a little while but picked it back up and has been working on the finished product for a few years now. I think the release date is expected for this year
>>332665254
bait/10
>>332661268
1.
Yes
2.
They are similar, not the same. The core aspects are very much the same, but they diverge a lot in gameplay. One is very combat oriented and the other focused on exploration and atmosphere.
3. Go back to the roots. Just look at Environmental Station Alpha. It's a better Metroid game than Nintendo could make recently. Good atmosphere does not mean that a game needs deep dialogue. Everything just has to be presented well visually.
>>332665254
Super Mario 64 killed the series by dividing the fanbase. Not that the 64 was a bad game, but it never should have been called Mario. Mario, as a series, should be a 2D platformer and only a 2D platformer
As long as we're b8ing
>>332665486
Beat me to it.
>>332664175
Another option is that the character gains A LOT of jumping power as the game progresses. And maybe a lot of movespeed on the top of that.
It makes wall jumping/climbing less of a needed crutch.
Playtesting will still be a bitch, since 3D navigation is really hard.
>>332665254
This is as stupid as the guys who try to claim 3D Zelda and 2D Zelda are two different franchises.
Every series goes through a transition when jumping to 3D, regardless of the genre, because game design in a 3D space is a completely different beast and tricks from the 16 bit era didn't really carry over.
Hell, the differences between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion are arguably bigger than the differences between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime.
>>332665486
>>332665254
Plot killed the series by dividing the fanbase. Not that plot is a bad concept, but i never should've been adde to GAME. Game, as a medium, should be about gameplay and only about gameplay.
>>332665340
Nintendo has not made a Metroidvania since what... 90s? Its been almost 20 years.
Its not particularly hard to make something good with that a big space, but it keeps not happening.
>>332665712
Heavy plot killed Metroid. I fucking hate MP3.
>>332665892
You are disregarding Fusion then? If so, i understand what you mean. But i don't agree 100%.
>>332666036
Zero Mission: 2004
Fusion: 2002
It could be argued that both are too on rails to even count.
>>332665254
Sonic Adventure killed the series by dividing the fanbase. Not that the Adventures were bad games, but they never should have been called Sonic. Sonic, as a series, should be a 2D platformer and only a 2D platformer
>>332661268
>1
No, not exactly. Doing it well in 3D is hard as fuck though. Most people refer to the 2D games when talking about the genre though, since that's what the vast majority of good games are.
>2
The 2D ones, yeah. I wouldn't say clones of each other, but they're similar enough alright.
>3
I'm just waiting on La-Mulana 2 mate.
>>332663476
3D can be a optimal way of doing Metrdoidvania.
But movement in 3D is hard to do. Since controlling camera is very hard. As is the fact a 2D room has 4 "exit surfaces", while in 3D there is 12 of them.
Beyond that, it should be perfectly doable.
>>332665712
I just hate how it's implied 3D is something every series should jump to, when most of the time the transition involves irrevocable changes to the basic gameplay.
Just take Mario for instance. Mario worked great as a 2D platformer, there was nothing wrong with the gameplay. By making the series 3D, it has de-emphasized platforming considerably and made the series mostly about exploration and collectathon egg-hunting. Not that that's bad gameplay either, but it's quite a bit different than what the series established.
I'm not saying they both can't exist, but they shouldn't be called the same thing because some people will like column A and think that's what the series should be, and some people will like column B and think that's what the series should be, when if they had just called the new gameplay a new series, we could have avoided that entire problem. I'm glad Nintendo is sticking with the "New" name for the 2D games because it makes it clear it's part of the same series, but they should do the same with 3D Zelda and 3D Metroid games for that matter. Prime was actually good in this respect, but then they started applying "Prime" to fucking Pinball and handheld multiplayer shooters, and now that's just completely fucking muddled. Plus, the 2D games never had a distinct title.
>>332668608
It's implied because the mass thinks that way. The same way that most people think that going for graphical realism is what games must do.
It does not go beyond that people thinking they know best.
It gets worse when the same people are the ones who write about games. >gaming journalism
>>332668608
>when most of the time the transition involves irrevocable changes to the basic gameplay.
I don't see anything wrong with those playstyles coexisting though, or with franchises evolving over time.
Games like Earthworm Jim, Contra and Metal Slug should have never attempted to become 3D but I feel like Nintendo in particular nailed most, if not all their transitions. The most bizarre one was probably Kid Icarus Uprising and to be frank that was barely a franchise to begin with.
>By making the series 3D, it has de-emphasized platforming considerably and made the series mostly about exploration and collectathon egg-hunting
This continued a trend that started was already happening with World and Yoshi's Island, and modern 3D Mario is pretty rooted in the 2D titles anyway.
>Prime was actually good in this respect, but then they started applying "Prime" to fucking Pinball and handheld multiplayer shooters, and now that's just completely fucking muddled
Prime Pinball was literally a spinoff of the first Metroid Prime with the same plot, bosses, music and areas. The handheld games are all rooted in the Prime aesthetic and use similar first person perspectives. I don't think the labeling with those got confusing.
And the 2D titles are informally just Metroid 1, 2, 3 and 4.
>>332668608
They called it Prime Pinball because it was based on Prime 1.
