My favorite games are always RPGs that take place in a fantasy setting. But it's a genre that has really gone downhill in recent years. There are still a few recent titles that are worth playing. But like any genre, it certainly has it's flaws. If you're a fan of fantasy RPGs too, there are likely a few things that you've found to be rather annoying about the genre. Let's talk about it.
>What are some of your pet peeves regarding fantasy role playing games, (Regardless of whether they're JRPGs or otherwise)?
It's understandable if you're not a fan of this genre, but I'd like to hear the thoughts of people who actually enjoy these sort of games.
I just want one western fantasy game without elves and dwarves and orc. Like seriously fucking come on guys.
And one fucking weeb fantasy game that doesn't revolve around THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
>>332389750
I think the thing that bothers me most in RPGs is that nobody can seem to write a decent story or main questline that doesn't involve your character becoming a sort of "chosen one" with a very specific purpose within the game world.
For example, I recently started Pillars of Eternity. After a couple of hours, I was really starting to enjoy the game. I made a barbarian character, and I started to really enjoy how he fit in to the game world. But I couldn't help but find that the whole "talking to the dead" aspect of the game's story didn't seem to fit in with the rest of how I envisioned this character. Then, I claimed a castle, which means I'm now tethered to this one spot, I guess... But then I come to find out that whole aspect of the game was watered down, "in favor of other content".
This seems common in most mainstream fantasy RPGs. You're given all these options at the beginning, and all the promise of this massive world, but in order to experience any of it, you have to tag along on their set path. But don't worry! You get to be special! No, we're not going to give you titles or a plot driven on things like merit or effort. But you will get to be The Dragonborn/GreyWarden/Arisen/WarriorsOfLight™.
Never mind that the powers granted to THE CHOSEN ONE might not fit in with 70% of the characters that are made for the game.
>>332389915
Yeah, I agree with the Elves/Dwarves/Orcs thing.
I would actually prefer a world were the "races" are all just different ethnicities of humans, over another "Not-LoTR" world.
Also, why do the people that design these settings always stick to those four things?
Heavily tattooed humans,
a nimble and mystical forest race,
a stout grumpy-yet-quirky race,
a savage race of west african not-orcs
"You're the Destined One!" is a BioWare-ism which unfortunately infected following RPGs.
Those archaic D&D games didn't feature a 'destined one'; BG's peer, Icewind Dale, didn't either.
I think it's just a lazy way to try to artificially enforce player importance in the world. Clearly, the World is DOOMED to be destroyed by AN ANCIENT EVIL unless YOU stop it!
...after all, it's too much fucking hassle to make a game that is reacting to what you're doing, like what Alpha Protocol was trying to do. It's easier to make a static world and pretend the PC is important even though nothing is actually changing at all.
>>332391107
Well stated, Anon.
I wouldn't mind if games did it in a more subtle way, or in a way that's more open ended.
I used Skyrim's Dragonborn as an example.
Whatever character you make in Skyrim, if you do the main quest line, you will become a part of this sort of "subclass" that taps into this specific source to use spell-like affects. That's all fine and good. But when you pile on the fact that you're also going to most likely become a werewolf/vampire, a master of a guild, and whatever sort of "class" you choose for your character, it starts to feel a bit silly. If someone tried to write this character into any other medium, they would be called a "Mary Sue".
Meanwhile, the Civil War quests in skyrim are actually open ended, and written in such a way that a lot of different characters can be represented in the game's world. The quests themselves aren't the most well written in the game, but they don't make your character out to be one specific thing or another.
Not to mention, that moment in Oblivion, where one of the Emperor's bodyguards turns to you and says, "You seem like an experienced *Whatever class he thought you might be, by this point.*" The first time he did that, and was completely right, I was stunned. Imagine if game developers actually took the time to write a whole game world that acknowledged your actions and gave you bonuses and titles based on them.
I hate moral systems. I've never seen one done correctly, it's always
>kill this puppy
>don't kill this puppy
Also I always play as a moralfag since you'll usually miss content if you don't.
>"Please hero do this favour for me and I will let you pass!" Y/N
>Pick No and stab him through the neck
>>332392512
I really can't think of a single game with a "morality score" in it that does it properly.
On the other hand, I can think of plenty of games that don't have a strict morality system that deal with the concept perfectly.
>>332389750
OP...
You better tell me who is that semen demon is.
>>332389915
>I just want one western fantasy game without elves and dwarves and orc. Like seriously fucking come on guys.
Deus Ex
Mass Effect
>And one fucking weeb fantasy game that doesn't revolve around THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
Lost Odyssey
Nier
Suikoden 2
>>332393532
Lulu from Final Fantasy 10
>>332393968
>Sci-fi
Great fantasy setting there
>Nier
Never tried it, Suikoden was pretty good though i'll give you that.
>>332391107
In BG technically you are "special guy", but until ToB very little actually revolves around you.
That's the important difference and the BG games do really well at making you feel that you are just a little part of a much bigger world that doesn't revolve around you or care about you. Sadly all of Bioware's subsequent games are the opposite and the universe is small and revolves just around you.
Honestly what I hate most about modern RPGs (western and japanese) is how they shove down your throat how special and cool you are and how special and cool the other characters are.
Hell, you know the Witch in Dragon's dogma? She appears in the credits as one of the main characters, and you know what? I've NEVER seen her in the game. I know nothing about her. Why? Because I never bothered to learn anything about her. If I wanted to know who she is and what she doesn, I'd done her sidequest, but I haven't.
Unlike DA:I, where when you meet that team of adventurers or something, you can ask for the past of each of them, but then you can only dig deeper in the queer/trans/whatever the fuck that thing was past, just because sh'es "the special snowflake". (I used her as an example here, not trying to start any SJW bullshit, there's plenty of other characters that just puke their lore down your throat too)
Nigga I just wanna kill monsters and shit with my sick magic andd my party, not know what colors your femenine dick is.
You can say whatever you want about how old RPG had a shitload of useless options and endless dialogue, but at least most of the time, if you wanted to know something you had to ask/search for it.
And the "you are a hero, the choosen one!" is reaching stupid levels in nowdays game, and specially in WoW, where you started as a regular adventurer in Vanilla and now you're apparently stronger than Thrall or any other leader.
>>332394105
Fallout then.
>>332389750
>What are some of your pet peeves regarding fantasy role playing games
Obviously terrible balance despite the developers caring enough to include a ton of options. Fuck you, trim your options down and actually balance them instead of throwing everything you can think of in there.
Zero difficulty so it's borderline impossible for the game to engage me.
Melodramatic stories that can't be skipped.
>>332391107
>"You're the Destined One!" is a BioWare-ism
Really? The concept didn't originate from Bioware nor did they popularize it. In fact, JRPGs have been doing it before bioware even existed.
>>332394510
This annoyed the shit out of me in some Square games where the angsty faggot constantly throwing temper tantrums is looked up to and loved by everyone because he's handsome and a prodigy and has nothing believable at all about his character.
I came here for big tiddie semen demons.
>>332394510
>You can say whatever you want about how old RPG had a shitload of useless options and endless dialogue, but at least most of the time, if you wanted to know something you had to ask/search for it.
That's what makes it an adventure.
The problem with modern games in general is this idea of "players are not allowed to miss anything" so instead of feeling like an adventure, it's just a carefully signposted theme park ride.
>Stupid "armour" that is actually just a costume since it wouldn't protect you due to horrendous design
>Whore outfits everywhere but no actual whores
>Prophecies
>Being the "Chosen One"
>Clichéd enemies and races
>Characters with 21st century, Post-Modern, Humanist beliefs.
>"Weapons" that would be better used as paddles
>Spikes on everything
>No quaint town crier
>Getting attacked by wolves and bears every five minutes in the wild. I've been in the woods a lot. That doesn't happen.
>Clichéd giant spiders
>You can carry 250 lbs or 3.5 cubic meters of random stuff, in nothing.
>people wearing their scabbards on their backs all the time.
>Swords and bows sticking to people's backs without scabbards or cases when they are not being used
>>332394982
>rifled firearms in the game but swords do more damage or are a far more popular weapon
>treehugger race
>technology race
>human race
>barbaric race
>no horses or mounts of any kind
>technology race has guns, steam engines, mechs, yet somehow no one else has taken advantage of this tech and in gameplay it's barely superior to swords and arrows and shit
I get incredibly mad about fantasy elements in my fantasy games and abstraction to facilitate gameplay in my video games.
>>332395590
Me too.
My pet peeve
>You're the chose one
>The one destined to stop evil
>The person poised to destroy the baddies
>'Please enter your name'
I hate this so much. If I am the chosen one, why do I have to customize and name my character. I hate this so much.
>>332390498
>>332391107
>>332391658
>>332394510
>Started making a small RPG recently
>Basis of my plot has the player as the chosen one
O-oh...
>>332395695
CURSE YOU, ZELDA
CURSE YOU, SAGES
CURSE YOU, Mike
>main character is an angsty crybaby faggot yet also naturally gifted at literally everything he does, we're meant to sympathize with him
>female love interest is incredibly childish, loud and obnoxious, we're meant to think she's cute and endearing
>>332395790
You fucking dumbass.
Modern "Chosen one" shit is universally hated by anyone with taste.
How could you miss that?
Better have some good ass motherfucking gameplay.
>>332395862
Anyone who puts anything other than the canon name is retarded.
>>332395941
What should I do? Let the player create his character, and the chosen one is an unrelated character you don't necessarily have to interact with?
>>332396247
How about no chosen ones at all?
>>332396247
Just make the game as usual but don't make everyone suck MC dick.
Like you're just an adventurer or whatever that was at the right time and place to save the world, but he ain't the chosen one, because there's no chosen ones irl.
>>332396247
Just don't have a chosen one. It's a really lazy method of developing plot.
>>332396247
Have no chosen ones.
You aren't The Hero at the beginning, destined to save the world; you just do what you have to do and save the world, thus becoming The Hero.
You don't need some special ordination from God or the oracle or the scrolls.
The world needs a hero and you step up to the plate because it's the right thing to do, or you want the fame and glory, or you're one of many aspiring heroes, or maybe you'd just rather the world not end and it doesn't look like anybody else is gonna do it.
>>332396462
>>332396468
>>332396591
>>332396764
Problem is there's no saving the world and the world doesn't need a hero. It's not "Stuff is happening so there needs a chosen one" but "There's a chosen one so stuff happens", if I remove the chosen one nothing happens. So I could make the story without the player being this chosen one, but without a chosen one at all the story just isn't there.
>>332397001
Now you see why you need a better story.
How about a RPG in which you aren't the Chosen One and instead you have to help the Chosen One?Like Oblivion.
>You being your life as an adventurer!
>Starts in the wilderness with barely any money or gear
What kind of retard would start exploring a dangerous fantasy world unprepared like that.
>>332397386
How about Dragon Quest V? You're not the Chosen One, your son that's born 2/3s of the way through the game is. You're not the ultimate warrior either, you're the group's healer.
>>332394510
>Nigga I just wanna kill monsters and shit with my sick magic andd my party, not know what colors your femenine dick is.
Thing is, you're playing story-heavy games and you don't care about the story. Roguelikes or something like Icewind Dale might be more your style of games.
>>332395307
>>Getting attacked by wolves and bears every five minutes in the wild. I've been in the woods a lot. That doesn't happen.
Because these are never your typical modern wolves, anon. They're more like medieval times when dark forests spread most of Europe and you really didn't want to go out into the forest because wolves did indeedroam in packs.
>>332397537
I get the feeling I should finally give Dragon Quest a chance.
>>332397674
True, but the real question is whether not 'tis weak to fire.
>>332394727
Which is weird because they then give you only the bare bone information you need while hiding everything else in some kind of codex, database or something. I think full VA is guilty for this, too.
Character has amazing unique powers, comes from a legendary bloodline, was experimented on as a child giving him super cool abilities, or can change into a fucking dragon or something.
>"Waaaaaah, I hate it! I just want to be normal!"
>>332394982
>Characters with 21st century, Post-Modern, Humanist beliefs.
this shit pisses me off so much and it's the reason why we'll never really get to explore really interesting settings. god forbid you deal with slavery in any way than BAD BAD BAD because people might you're condoning slavery in real life.
>>332397585
You should either make the player want to know more about the world throught the story or make the player interested in the story through the world.
Assuming the player will like both and throw everything at their face anytime the devs feel like isn't precisely good writting.
>>332397956
I can already change into a dragon irl, why would I want that boring shit in a game that's supposed to be about fantasy?
>>332398031
I was considering making a game with a human civilization in 3030 that's supported by the slave labor of convicted criminals and prisoners of war, and where a significant group of humans were considered subhuman due to their unique genetics and fairly backwards customs, but I know if I ever release it it'll get shit on for that.
>>332389750
I just think that the whole world setting and classes are getting real stale as fuck.
It's been almost 2 decades and we still have not explored world settings that isn't ye-olde-grasslands-and-other-natury-bullshit-and-castles. Everytime I start up a RPG, be it western or eastern, the story always begins in a village or a small town. Maybe people just really likes this setting pattern, I don't know. I just want to see something new. Let a goddamn RPG take place in a city or space or something. Granted there are RPGs that tries something different from the norm and when they do it usually is a pretty refreshing experience. But for every one RPG with unique settings there's like a hundred more to follow with the same generic shit.
On the topic of classes it's also on the similar opinion with the settings for me. Too generic. Or rather I should say that it's going back to being generic in my opinion.
I understand that the damage dealer, magic user, healer, tank, and rogue is a time tested formula that works and over the time people have made some modifications to the base classes to create unique classes of their own. But lately modern RPGs are going back to the generic base classes. I don't have much beef for this one but it still kinda irks me a bit.
>>332398384
Because everything is still tied down to D&D in some way. Just because it was the first thing to make it big doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to do things.
>>332398384
Every "unique" class ends up being nothing more than a gimmicky version of a base class tough. The only way to really create something unique is to create a specific gameplay element just so this unique class can use it.
The RPG tropes don't bother too much. What bothers is when they're brought up into an anime series. Keyword, at least the manga version will have some consistency/quality control. But the anime will play up on the fanservice and ruin everything remotely good. That said, Log Horizon and Konosuba were neat for what they were.
WRPG's, however need to do more than rely on humanoids. Do some lizardmen, insects, fishfolk, and really do them right. Don't just take a human and give them a fish head and gills or some idiotic fursuit and call them a wolfman. Give me an actual anthropomorphic wolf. I'm also sick of cool races being left in the dust over the generic human that today's shitters have to relate to and insert themselves in.
>>332398085
How many villages have pillage oh great dragon?
>>332390498
This.
Sometimes i want to be able to actually create my own character more han physically. I yearn for the time when yoi can change your characters story and background and personality as much as your bust size and eye width.
>>332394543
You're fucking autistic
I have a question, Can Mechs Work in the fantasy genre for vidya?
>>332393968
That's not lulu
>>332399507
None.
Still living in my parents' cave.
It's fine though, I'm only 1800 so I don't really need to pillage unless I move out.
>>332400179
White knight chronicles
>>332400179
Why wouldn't they?
>>332397001
Stop focusing on singular people.
No more chosen ONE.
Matter of fact, no more saving the world, thats shit too.
Make your own archtype, maybe a group of people fighting on what is small scale in the grand scheme of things, but is still a massive deal to the protag/s.
>>332400462
>>332400491
Because we never see them in Western type games and Barely on japan ones or at least the ones released here.
>>332400613
Ah, I thought you meant like "physically" work. But you mean would it be received well?
Probably.
>>332397956
Whats wrong with not wanting to play the EXACT same character archtype in pretty much EVERY game?
>>332400613
You can build a mech suit in Throne of Bhaal.
>>332389750
Censorship. I love when games have things like Skyrim's Nocturnal outfit. Medieval times had plenty of whores and sex. Stop giving everyone a turban.
>>332400179
Is this Vanguard Bandits?
>>332400939
VIsion of Escaflowne
>>332400462
I heard that game was heck of shit though.
>>332400850
Can you give me a name of those for example?
>Press A/X/O to talk
>Shot-reverse-shot conversation
>MC just asks short questions
>NPC delivers entire life story
>Radial menus and dialogue trees
>>332394982
>No quaint town crierWAKEY WAKEY DAY BREAKY
>>332401627
Also
>Both characters just stand there idle while talking
>>332399412
I disagree. A red mage might really just be a combination of a swordsman, white mage, and black mage, but the whole is more than the sum of its parts; having access to those abilities drastically changes the way you play. And as far as totally unique classes go, if the game doesn't have enough mechanics to be able to explore beyond the basic archetypes it's very shallow.
Also we lose a lot of classes to swiss army knife bullshit. It used to be that supports would have 3 classes; there'd be the guy that does buffs and various utility skills for the party, the guy that does debuffs and harmful ailments to the enemy, and the guy that does the healing. There might be some overlap, but there were 3 clear roles. Now those classes are all under "healing" and people who enjoy classes like guild wars' mesmer or other games' bards get shafted.
>>332401903
Except you could just be a warrior and lug scrolls around with you for exact same effect. Point is it's just a hybrid of base classes.
>>332393968
>Suikoden 2 not revolving around POWER OF FRIENDSHIP
>Nier too
sounds like someone never even tried to best end in either of these
>>332395935
stop playing/watching weeb shit then
>>332391107
>filename
>not liking pageboy cut knight girls
>I shiggy diggy
>>332397001
then you never had a story to begin with
>>332402793
What about the Bible
>>332402928
have you read the bible?
>>332403081
I watched the movie
>>332394510
This shit right here.
I hated how in Oblivion you can't even leave the first room without having the emperor tell you how fucking special you are. Skyrim was a bit better, but Morrowind basically had it perfect. You had to prove that you were the Nerevarine because you were the nth dude to fall into that category.
>>332390836
>I would actually prefer a world where the "races" are just different ethnicities of humans
Shadowrun has elves, dwarves and orcs but they're essentially mutants instead of straight up different species.
>>332389915
Dragon's Dogma
Souls games
The obviously retarded scaling. Like ten troll as big as houses sitting in some valley. What are they even eating? There are so many predators in one square kilometer that you could populate half Tasmania with it.
The big cities are not even villages, with the exception of ruins because they need less NPCs there so they plaster them bigger. Skyrim and Oblivion are obviously the biggest offenders, but I can't remember a game where the capital had more than 50 NPCs. Literally a big farmstead.
Five climate zones on the area of Manhattan. With too many different big species in each.
I understand that there are limitations on content creation and technical reasons, but they should mask it instead of hyping a city as THE CENTER OF THE WORLD and then it 12 houses and 20 inhabitants. Or you walk from the permafrost with Vikings to the desert filled with Arabs in 2 minutes without bit elevation change. Loading screens are ok if they create a sense of size.
>>332402702
Or just stop playing Square games.
>>332394727
>The problem with modern games in general is this idea of "players are not allowed to miss anything" so instead of feeling like an adventure, it's just a carefully signposted theme park ride.
Instantly thought of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Vc9_f4ByA
>>332389750
When best girl gets canonically impregnated by worst guy
>turn in a quest
>decline the reward like a true hero
>there's no secondary reward
>>332405839
>true hero
>wanting a secondary reward
Choose only one
>>332391107
>bioware-ism
>when Final Fantasy has been doing Warriors of Light bullshit since NES
>>332389915
Risen 3 m8
>>332406323
There's like two games in the series that do this
>>332406454
Two games when FF1, 3, 5, and 14 directly call you a Warrior of Light. Then there are characters like Lightning or Zidane
>>332406323
It doesn't really matter either way because divinely ordained heroism is literally older than feudalism
My pet peeve is people who want fantasy games to be absolutely realistic in every aspect because they failed school and don't know the difference between realism and credibility.
>>332407174
Zidane is just a clone who was given a soul, no Warrior of Light stuff about him.
>>332407174
5 is different tough, 1 and 3 you are the Warriors of Light from the start, in 5 you just happen to be in the right place at the right time to become them.
>>332407249
That's why I called him a special snowflake.
>>332407174
The MCs in XIII weren't really "Chosen Ones" aside from Vanille and Fang, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
>>332395790
Morrowind did the "Chosen One" device pretty well
You cheat the system and actively go around trying to fulfill the prophecies to make you the chosen one.
>>332407385
>right place at the right time
Well, 2 of the Warriors of Light in FF V are direct descendants of the Dawn Warriors, the previous generations protectors of the world.
So it only seems fitting.
>>332407225
This.
also when people complain there aren't enough furry races.
>>332407616
The rewards from ashlanders for becoming Nerevarine are worthless, being Hortator of the great houses does nothing, Vivec can just give the Wraithguard to anyone, and Azura's fancy ring serves no purpose. Was the whole point of fulfilling the prophecies to gain immunity to Dagoth's diseases? Since anyone who has the wraithguard can go and stab Lorkhan's heart?
>Lamias exist
>Centaurs exist
>Dryads exist
>Slime creatures exist
>Harpies exist
>Skeletons exist
>Harpy skeletons exist
>Every fantasy games only let you play as humans, small humans, pointy ear humans, sometimes also big humans and hairy humans
>>332408657
>skeletons and harpy skeletons as a playable race
>>332396247
Have you never played tabletop DnD? I don't understand why more developers don't learn from stuff like this. Here are some classic adventures, and a rough outline:
Tomb of Horrors - the PCs explore a nightmarish dungeon filled with traps and puzzles to take its treasure and/or kill the lich waiting there.
Elemental Evil - element themed cults are trying to fuck over each other and destroy the world with their preferred element. The PCs infiltrate and destroy each cults hideout.
Ravenloft - the PCs become trapped in a despair-laden land by magic fog, and have to kill the local vampire lord to escape.
In each of these, the PCs are powerful, capable people who generally get the job done, and are hailed as heroes when they do it. But they don't have a magic destiny to do so, and their motivations for getting involved can vary quite widely. Sure, they might be good-aligned and just wanting to help out the locals, but they could be greedy treasure-snatchers who only care about getting paid. In the most reason adventure book for Ravenloft, the adventure even offers the possibility of the PCs becoming vampires themselves and taking over the land rather than freeing it.
Obviously tabletop offers a certain degree of freedom that isn't possible in vidya, but I still think that the general approach of presenting a location or setup and allowing the players to choose their own motivation for interacting with it is very, very important/ Railroading is something bad DMs do, and it's sad that games fall into it so often.
>>332409574
>Elemental Evil
>The Temple of Elemental Evil
???
>>332411694
Yes, that one. I'm not sure what point you're making, I was just shortening it for convenience.
>>332389915
megaten
>>332389915
This. I want a fantasy game where the races are some weird shit, like plant vampires or insect men with poisonous blood, where even humans are fucking weird in some way, like magical transhumans or some shit. I'm so sick of vanilla. I'm so sick of vanilla with a twist. Only "vanilla" fantasy that gets it right is Elder Scrolls, where the high elves are a bunch of apocalyptic cultist nazis, and the dwarves were antitheists who tipped their collective fedora so hard they blinked out of existence and turned into the skin of their god-robot.
And even Bethesda fucks it up by ignoring all that shit in favor of putting out more bland bullshit.
