So, why Bishop is Chaotic Evil according to the Obsidian?
He should be a Neutral Evil at worst
>>332293063
Fair enough, though I'm not sure I'd consider chaotic evil better/worse than neutral evil.
D&D alignments are stupid.
>>332293126
Chaotic Evil are usually monsters only or gods of evil
Having one as a party member is stupid as fuck, because he should be literally uncontrollably dick
>>332293063
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxfu-DQrzOU
Chaotic Evil, more like Reasonably Evil.
>>332294832
>playing as a girl
Gay as fuck
>>332295393
>playing as a man
Generic as fuck
>>332293265
But he is a uncontrollable dick
>>332293063
Alignments were a fucking mistake
I'm so glad RPGs have completely moved on to better systems or ditched it entirely, I shouldn't move 10 points closer to "Evil" because I said something mean to an old granny or stole items from a bad guy
>>332293063
Becauseayy, alignments
Same as he can still cast spells, they couldn't be fucked disabling it.
Anyway, doesn't he believe any social order is a lie?
>>332295393
>implying female KCxSafiya isn't the best romance
>>332293063
They really fucked up with alignments if you ask me.
How in the fuck is Amon Jerro evil? All the shit he did was for the greater good, not for any personal gain.
>>332295657
Video games had karma as recent as Fallout and Mass Effect. We are still using alignment.
>>332293063
His betrayal was fucking stupid.
He was bro tier before that as long as you know your shit, don't act stupid and like a moralfag.
>>332296034
At least it's only about how people perceive you rather than some "objective truth" like in D&D.
>>332295952
by the time you meet him all he cares about is defeating the king of shadows, the fact that it saves people is incidental
>>332296106
His betrayal makes even less sense when he admits that he thinks you will win the fight.
When he walks away after an influence check he tells Garius that you will kill him there.
>>332293063
I dont think you really understand how chaotic evil works OP. Id kill you for your faggotry but im not in the mood right now.
>>332295952
>How in the fuck is Amon Jerro evil?
Communicating with demons is evil.
Enslaving sentient beings so you can suck their power is evil.
Basically if you are a warlock you are doing things considered in D&D settings to be OBJECTIVELY evil. There are laws that tell you what is good, and what is evil, and the warlock disciplines are evil.
more like chaotic asshole, I wish there was a dialogue choice to properly tell him off
>>332296404
>Communicating with demons is evil.
No, it's chaotic, you fucking braindead retard
So like im playing MOTB for the first time as an evil cleric who needs rests to buff up and fight. Holy hell is the spirit mechanic annoying. Incredibly shittiest system implemented since i cant remember which other game. It's like Obsidian come up with a good story and decent characters and then actively try to shit on it as much as possible gameplay wise. I bet that Sawyer faggot was behind this.
>>332296209
Defeating the King of Shadows was never a personal thing for him.
He found out about some ancient threat, tried to warn Neverwinter, they didn't give a fuck so he had to do everything himself.
>>332296529
>signing a contract is chaotic
Literally the definition of lawful. You make a rule that you cannot break.
>>332295657
I doesn't make sense if you're a writer to use things like D&D alignments because it restricts what you can do with a character.
And if you decide to just ignore what defines the alignments then they become pointless and needless.
>>332296529
There are both chaotic and lawful evil demons you know. They even have a war called the blood war. You might have heard about it.
>>332296517
He's only an asshole to Elanee or to PC that acts like an idiot/moralfag.
As long as you don't say stupid shit and pass skill checks he actually respects you to a degree.
>>332295657
Pic related did "alignment" right. Your actions have consequences and word spreads about your deeds.
>>332296549git gud, faggot
>>332296404
>doing evil things is evil no matter the intent
So, if a paladin would be forced to communicate with a demon to save another 2 people, he would be considered evil?
>>332296625
he started out a hero but during the years he fell
by the time you meet him he'd sacrifice any and all things just to reach his goal
>>332297034
Communicating with a demon doesn't automatically means fall unless DM is a dick.
Now if a paladin is willing to strike a bargain/contract/deal with evil intentions, now he's gonna fall.
>>332297034
D&D alignment isn't supposed to make sense, it just is what it is
![nwn2_sand_portrait_by_aeltari[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UkYaGaJ.jpg "nwn2_sand_portrait_by_aeltari[1].jpg")
Best companion coming through.
>>332296209
>>332297190
>he wanted to kill evil dude without caring about how many innocent people will die in the process
It's fucking a definition of chaotic good character
>>332297034
Paladin should slay demon on the spot, even if this demon was ordered to save little children
After that he should think few days about did he do a good thing or bad, and is staying lawful was a right thing to do
>>332296549
I think it's just a compounding problem of translating DnD rules to video games where they don't work very well. Spells per day sucks in games with a large emphasis on combat (almost all of them), so they have to have frequent resting, but then they may as well not even have spells per day so they try to penalize resting which usually just comes across as annoying since you still have to do it to get through the game for a lot of classes. MotB tried to do a different take on it to make it interesting, but can't really get around the fact that it's just a bandaid fix on top of a pile of underlying problems. Ultimately the best way to play the game is just to make a character that doesn't have to rest much, which kills the biggest draw of slapping DnD's class variety into your game.
>>332296404
>Communicating with demons is evil
>be a paladin
>demon managed to imprison a few of my friends
>he is willing to release them if I play a friendly game of chess with him because he is quite bored
>don't say a word because it's literally evil to communicate with a demon
>he kills all my friends
Sure feels good to be good.
>>332297373
>It's fucking a definition of chaotic good character
lol nah. Neutral at best.
>>332297303
>Great diplomat
>No matter how much you prepare, if you let him to speak during trial it will be automatic fail
>Somehow you a bump from the swamp can defend himself better even without diplomacy/bluff checks
Obsidian writing
>>332297373
>Paladin should slay demon on the spot
What is the demon was too powerful?
And no, fighting no matter what is not lawful good, it's lawful stupid at best.
>>332297512
>>Great diplomat
He only wants you to think that.
>>332297638
Well, his skill is a double that you could have on the level you get him in your party
>People unironically think paladins fall if they dont do action X.
Paladins fall when they stop believing in their cause.
>>332296731
Huh... demons are chaotic and devils are lawful
>>332297535
>What is the demon was too powerful?
It doesn't matter if the demon'sred
>>332297881
4e get out
>>332297373
>wanting to achieve your goal no matter the costs or sacrifices
literally the definition of Neutral Evil you idiot
a chaotic good character wouldn't sacrifice every single person in a country just to kill its king because then there's nobody left to be saved from the king
Just started HotU. Any tips? I like how you can revive your old OC companions as you go deeper down and recruit them.
>>332298025
>killng a few old nobles to save whole Neverwinter and a few other places equals "no matter the costs or sacrifices"
>>332297881
>Paladins fall when they stop believing in their cause.
Is that how they are these days?
Man they really fucked that class up
>>332298025
If it need to protect other country he would do it
>>332298230
>>killng a few old nobles
Firstly, this is a reduction of the original point.
Secondly, it's hardly a few old nobles, it's more likeanyone who gets in his way or presents even a minor inconvenience, and plenty of people who just happen to be nearby, without thought to whether or not it's even an efficient decision with regards to achieving his goals
I mean, you can literally tell him this, and he will agree with you.
>>332297981
There are blue demons too though.
What now?
Hey guys, I loved BG2, liked Pillar etc.
Is NWN2 worth playing through? Which of the campaigns should I play through first? (Main, Mask, Storm). Is it long? Are the characters interesting?
>>332298475
>Is NWN2 worth playing through?
>>332298475
You should play NWN1 first. Both NWN games have mediocre OCs with good expansions.
>>332298475
NWN2 is pretty medicore. The expansions are good though.
>>332298460Checkmate, Thayans
Blue demons you can talk to and find out if you should kill them or not, rather than just killing them on sight
>>332298475
>Is NWN2 worth playing through?
Yes.
>Which of the campaigns should I play through first?
OC, then MotB. If you get bored with/can't appreciate the OC, just skip to MotB
>Is it long?
Not really.
>Are the characters interesting?____Yes____
Play a Zerker for maximum fun times!
>>332298267
Yeah, now you can be a Paladin of any alignment and you're powered by belief in a nebulous ideal or something equally as asinine
>>332298413
no he would not
in all but the most extreme of circumstances that'd net you up as chaotic neutral at BEST
>>332298443
>anyone who gets in his way or presents even a minor inconvenience
Which in turn makes it harder for him to save Neverwinter.
>have a pretty good source of power that could come in handy against the King of Shadows
>some stupid adventurer bitch you don't even know fucks it up
>kill the bitch for almost dooming the whole Neverwinter
>turns out it was your granddaughter, even though it was extremaly unlikely
Shit happens, he did nothing wrong or evil.
>>332298475
Mask>Main>Storm
Mask is a continuation of the main campaign's character's story, so if missing the start would bother you, you might want to play that first
>Are the characters interesting?
There are interesting characters in all 3. In the main campaign, they're watered down by dozens of uninteresting characters and the fact that there's so many people around that you don't get to spend much time talking to any one; in strom of zehir they only have a few lines of dialogue each, for other reasons; but mask of the betrayer sort of hits the sweet spot with a handful of important characters that are all pretty interesting.
>>332298542
Is NWN2 more connected to NWN1 than BG2 to BG1? I found BG2 to be quite independent especially if I did some outside readings myself.
>>332298534
So yes?
>>332298670
I only hear about the MotB one, how is the other expansion (storm of whatever)?
>>332298772
Cool, I'll try that. I was planning on doing Cleric actually, since 3.5e Cleric was OP I think. How is the other expansion, storm of whatever?
>>332299073
>Is NWN2 more connected to NWN1 than BG2 to BG1?
Much, much less than BG
I think there's a couple minor allusions to NWN1 and a couple characters that appear in both, but that's about it
it does take place broadly in the same location but that isn't really significant
>>332299029
Awesome, thanks a lot. I need another good RPG to scratch the itch.
>>332299073
Storm seemed to be pretty intresting but i never went far with it. It works diffrently from the other 2 campaigns since you build a whole team instead of having one guy + NPCs.
>>332299073
>So yes?
Not that Anon but that pic is making fun of the fact that you literally can't refuse to something that advances the plot.
It's one of the shitty things about the game. Hell you can't even refuse to a companion if they want to join you, it's either:
>yes
or
>passive-aggressive yes
>>332299073
>How is the other expansion, storm of whatever?
mostly forgettable. they tried to do something different (semi-free movement and exploration on a world map, minor/independent adventures to find on the world map, a whole trading network minigame, etc.) which is admirable, but gets dull after a few hours, and seems to have resulted in a lack of time spent on normal RPG features like character dialogue, plot, and interesting locations.
>>332299217
>It works diffrently from the other 2 campaigns since you build a whole team instead of having one guy + NPCs.
There is enough NPCs in SoZ to build a full party with them though.
That's what I did since I'm not a fan of making the whole party myself.
>>332298784
No, having a goal as saving others and not just yourself is a good alignment
Only good neutral have some moral problems with killing innocent people when needed, both lawful good and chaotic good can do it just fine, and chaotic good don't even need to try hard to justify killing
>>332296549
There are quite a few ways to make the whole thing a non factor, especially for those that suppress the hunger. A lot of them involves summoning.
Alignment is fun, fun, FUN!
>>332299494
killing innocent people when its not necessary IS evil however
>>332298851
>Which in turn makes it harder for him to save Neverwinter.
This is my point.
>kill the bitch for almost dooming the whole Neverwinter
>Shit happens, he did nothing wrong or evil.
His obsession with seeing everything in the context of his greater war against the King of Shadows, without thought to immediate or unintuitive result, is what is causing him to commit so many evil (and unnecessarily evil) acts and making his war ultimately so much harder. This is literally whatMephasmtells him, and you can point it out to him and he'll agree if you have high enough influence.
>>332299568
Man, don't tell him if he's just gonna hate the mechanics without bothering to understand them.
>>332299757
>Ladies Man
Aw yeah
>>332299073
>Cool, I'll try that. I was planning on doing Cleric actually, since 3.5e Cleric was OP I think.
Cleric is still hella OP, if you don't mind having to buff yourself all the time. Heal/Harm isn't /quite/ as broken, though.
>How is the other expansion, storm of whatever?
Very different. I found it got eventually interminably repetitive and grindy, so I left it unfinished.
>>332299285
>It's one of the shitty things about the game. Hell you can't even refuse to a companion if they want to join you, it's either:
I want the Anti-Thayan colourists to leave
>>332293063
>he acknowledged the fact that he was a shitty person
>he didn't like that so he wanted to kill himself while taking a few Luskan shits with him to do a good thing for once in his life
>even warned the villagers that the village is going to burn soon, not his fault they didn't listen to him
>Duncan fucked it all up by saving him and making him be in debt to him, forcing him to continue his miserable life
He did nothing wrong
Fuck Duncan
Best module series comin' through.What did you Choose?I spoke the Truth
>>332299826
Killing innocent people in D&D is literally always evil which is why it's dumb as fuck
A character that would sacrifice unwilling innocent people yet achieve the greater good by doing it would be at least neutral
Meanwhile a good aligned paladin fuck who would fail to achieve the greater good because he wasn't willing to sacrifice innocents would remain good yet have achieved nothing and in the end might as well have let the big bad win thus furthering the cause of evil
It's the same dumb shit with YOU CAN'T RAISE SKELETONS TO HELP PEOPLE, IT'S STILL INHERENTLY EVIL!!!!!
>>332300168
yeah the idea is that Bishop wanted to die and welcomed oblivion
Which is why he's actually still mostly smug when you meet him in the wall while most people here seem to think he was afraid/got what he deserved when in the end it's what he had wanted all along
>>332299826
No killing people for selfish reasons is evil, or others reasons are neutral and good
For example you see how someone trying to mug the little girl
Killing thug and little girl because you kinda liked her doll is evil
Killing thug and brutally killing little girl because she doesn't wear religious symbol that was forced in your country is lawful good
Killing thug and little girl because you got apples on breakfast and sparing her if you ate bananas is neutral
>>332300350
too bad the vault was fragged.
>>332300372
You have literally no idea how alignments work.
I will show you by fixing your own example.
Killing thug and little girl because you kinda liked her doll is neutral evil
Killing thug and brutally killing little girl because she doesn't wear religious symbol that was forced in your country is lawful evil
Killing thug and little girl because you got apples on breakfast and sparing her if you ate bananas is chaotic evil
>>332293063
He goes against the belief of gods which is completely lawless. And doesnt give a shit if people die to get what he wants which is evil. He hasnt done any good but help the hero.
Sucks what happens to him in the next game.
>>332300498
http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/prophet-chapter-iii-which-destined
Thank me later, faggot. Now go play the series.
>>332300353
>Which is why he's actually still mostly smug when you meet him in the wall while most people here seem to think he was afraid/got what he deserved when in the end it's what he had wanted all alongHe is afraid, though, of the pain. He's just glad he doesn't have to live out an afterlife, because that's antithetical to his worldview
>>332300372
>Killing thug and brutally killing little girl because she doesn't wear religious symbol that was forced in your country is lawful good
You have a fucked-up interpretation of what it means to be Lawful Good.
>>332300372
>Killing thug and little girl because you got apples on breakfast and sparing her if you ate bananas is neutral
Oh, okay. You're just a fucking idiot.
>>332300558
You could be faithless and still be lawful.
Lawful as a whole is either an adherence to law or a code, even a personal one, or tradition, honor etc
>>332297405
That is exactly how paladins work in D&D.
If you negotiate with a demon you are evil.
Paladins arent allowed to talk to demons.
>>332300515
>Killing thug and little girl because you got apples on breakfast and sparing her if you ate bananas is chaotic evil
That's chaotic neutral as fuck
Chaotic evil still have reasons.
Neutral is by far the best alignment and I'm glad the 3e+ description is vastly superior to AD&d or what you see in BG
>>332300709
Being an anarchist and against traditions like gods does seem chaotic to me. He literally goes to dnd wall hell. Where his soul is consumed until his ceases to exist. That takes a lot of lawless conviction to follow that route.
>>332300732
Murdering people with reason or without is evil, not neutral.Neutral has always been more of a pain in the ass to accurately portray than either good or evil
>>332300956
Remember when it was'you must always act to keep things in balance, regardless of how it affects the long term'?
Good times.
>>332297535
>What is the demon was too powerful?
Fight and die.
>>332300515
>Killing thug and little girl because you got apples on breakfast and sparing her if you ate bananas is chaotic evil
No, it's chaotic evil only if you was in bad mood or liked banas more than apples
Killing just because you have apples and not because you have bananas is neutral
>Killing thug and brutally killing little girl because she doesn't wear religious symbol that was forced in your country is lawful evil
Again, it's lawful evil you you don't liked girl or just was in the mood to be a dick
Killing her for not wearing something that was forced in your country is lawful good or lawful neutral
>>332301116
>Fight and die.
I recognise you!
What if they're blue demons, anon. Would you still have a problem?
>>332293063
>Just risking my life because some idiot lost his stuff on a dungeon.
>"Can you give me gold ?"
>+1 chaotic
>>332301187
Do you...not even know what the words good, evil and neutral mean in a morality and/or alignment context or something?
>>332301206
Still fight and die.You dont recognize me, any similarity to other autists is incidental.
>>332300956
>Murdering people with reason or without is evil, not neutral.
No, doing anything without any reasoing behind it is purely chaotic, that's why it fits the chaotic neutral characters.
Take Ignus from P:T for example, he would gladly burn the thug and the little girl, not because he is evil and enjoys it, but simply because he is so derailed and crazy that he doesn't understand much beyond that he wants to burn shit.
Neutral is pain the ass because it can be seen as either "neutral" as in believing in the concept of balance (druids etc.), or "neutral" in the sense that it simply doesn't apply to that character (animals, Ignus etc.).
Chaotic evil character would kill the thug and a little gril because he fucking like to kill people.
Now, he could kill the thug first because he got apples for breakfest and the girl second because he ate bananas as well.
How edgy am I if OoM and Amon Jerro are my favorite companions?
>>332301834
>OoM
But which one? The kid?
>>332301527Man, you missed out on a couple of great threads in the past few days
>>332301540
>but simply because he is so derailed and crazy that he doesn't understand much beyond that he wants to burn shit.
The only reason Ignus is CN instead of CE is because he lacks the capacity to reason that other people might not actually think being set on fire is as awesome as he does. If he were capable of understanding that, and still acted the way he did, he'd be evil.
>>332301834
>How edgy am I if OoM and Amon Jerro are my favorite companions?
>Ammon
You're alright
>OoM
Kill yourself, fucker.
Is sacrificing someone for the greater good evil?
As in, are alignments calculated at the micro or macro scale?
>>332300350
I played the first few in that series, but I just got fed up. Extremely well put together and the story moves along at a really respectable pace, but it was just the same plot device over and over again. "You need to prevent X. Oh no, in trying to prevent X you caused X!"
I realise that's a tradition in stories about prophecies, and I don't know, maybe the modder was trying to make fun of the linear nature of videogames or something, but I honestly started to get bored. I've played hundreds of hours of NWN mods of varying quality and I don't think they've ever made me bored before.
>>332301881
Not him, butMykul is best One
>>332301978
Sadly morality is subjective and it would depend on the DM.
>>332301978
>Is sacrificing someone for the greater good evil?
>As in, are alignments calculated at the micro or macro scale?
Correct me someone if I'm wrong, but: both, but emphasis is given to the micro/immediate scale.
>>332302213
Even when its about "dont hit a woman" conflicting with "save humanity"?
>>332301978
The intent should be what matters.
Killing a child to save thousands shuoldn't be considered evil, just as saving a child to kill thousands is still pretty fucking evil.
>>332302182
But D&D morality isnt subjective. Certain things are, regardless of the situation, evil.
>>332302502
>The intent should be what matters.
It is
I actually think that it's new generation(People who were born 91+) who thinks that killing innocent is always evil
Alignments always were about motivation behind your actions and not your actions themselves
>>332302617
This is true, but some shitty DMs dont see this. The fact that people are arguing about morality in this very thread seems to imply that this thread contains some really shitty DMs.
>>332302034
The one part about the series I didn't like was at the very beginning because I chose to go into the stupid mines first instead of the castle. I dropped the module twice before I pushed myself to slog through the stupid fucking mines. I get the feeling a lot of people drop it at the mines instead of pushing through, because the mines are garbage but the rest of it is 10/10.
Seriously. Fuck the mines and their spiders and how everything fucking poisons you and you'll never win the goddamn fort roll because low levels. MY PACK IS 2 HEAVY. FUCK.
>>332302750
>killing innocent is always evil
It is. If you're willing to shoulder that burden, then fine, but don't pretend like it isn't wrong.
>>332302924
>DMs
Don't be silly anon, nobody plays with other people anymore. Multiplayer dnd is dead, and so are DMs.
>>332300350
Never heard about it
Why it's good?
>>332300350
Care to elaborate?
NWN 1 or 2? What is it all about? What's the level range? Party size?
And most importantly, are there any cool crossbows in it, or can you at least craft in it? I feel masochistic and want to play a ranger crossbowman.
>>332303347
Best writing, best story, best world design, best characters, best just about everything. The Prophet series is almost universally held as the number one best series to ever come out of NWN, with A Dance with Rogues coming a close second.
As >>332302034 said its a REALLY LONG SERIES and that turns some people off but the only straight up bad part of the entire series is in chapter 1 with the fucking abandoned mines.
>>332303324
So delusional.
>>332303721
>A Dance with Rogues coming a close second.
lolno
Did those faggots at Obsidian honestly patch out the Stormlord weapon enchantment bug?
>>332303347
>>332303584
NWN1. I think you start at level 8 or so, can't remember. It's unbelievably linear but has some interesting characters, very cool locations, and a fast-moving and tense plot.
Overall it feels tight and well put-together.
I found it tiresome and vastly overrated, but most people seem to disagree with me.
I don't recall crafting or equipment in general being very significant in it.
>>332303584
Its a series of modules about Prophecy and Fate. I can't say much more without spoiling something.
NWN 1. You start at level 5, but I'd recommend boosting yourself to level 8 if you are playing alone, otherwise fights are gonna be hard unless you minmax like a faggot.
There are crossbows in it. The only +5 weapon in the game besides a plot device is a crossbow, its basically the 'I'm tired of missing this nigger' weapon. One of your available henchmen is also a ranger, if that matters to you.
>>332303721
SO it's better than ADWR roleplay wise?
Because even thought you was forced to play as a rogue choices were pretty great and not very linear
>>332303324
Don't be sad anon, I'll play with you.
>>332303886
>>332303890
Please recommend good multiplayer modules for NWN1. I heard HotU has some issues with MP is that true?
>third NWN thread at the same time
anons pls
>>332304067
2 of them are mine
I thought this one will die fast, and made it just to kill a time before I reach Neeska
>>332303941
Depends entirely on if you're a good-aligned moralfag like I am or not. The game assumes you are 'normal', aka, not a sociopathic killer.
>>332303961I never got to experience DnD with other people except in NWN 1 multiplayer and fuck me I have lots of good memories of it. Especially jans arena server. I loved that place. I was even fairly well known
>>332304056
I've never heard of HoTU having issues with MP, but its entirely possible as I never played through the campaigns with others. The multiplayer scene on NWN 1 and 2 is dead now in either case, unless you can host your own shit and invite friends of yours to play a module with you. There are still some persistent worlds floating around but I don't really like those MMO-ish servers.
As for good multiplayer modules, to be honest you're kind of shit out of luck. The VAST, VAST majority of the ones in the vault are for single player. I know the Prophet series supports multiple players with one person designated as the protagonist but I've never played it with others myself so I can't speak to how well it goes.
>>332303941
Depends what you mean by roleplaying, I guess. My initial response would be no, it doesn't even begin to compare to ADWR roleplay-wise, because it's aggressively linear and the majority of your choices don't matter a particle.
On the other hand it does have a pretty engaging plot and dialogue, and getting into the head of the character you're playing is pretty easy, so I guess from that point of view there is some "roleplaying"
>>332304461
Yes but anon,the whole point of the storyline is how your choices do not matter
What are some good mods for NWN2?
Except for Path of Evil, it was fun but the edginess gets borinf pretty fast.
>>332304524
Yes, I got that. It was clever the first few times. After the 4th or 5th time it got tiresome. After the 8th or 9th I just quit.
>>332295720
Why would he not cast spells?
Ranger can be evil in 3rd edition.
>>332304562
>good mods
>nwn2
lol
But there some good mp ones
>>332304562
I'd like to know too. They really fucked up NWN 2, and I still think NWN 1 is better in every way. Even the graphics.
NWN 1 is simplistic and stylized enough to allow your imagination to fill in the gaps, but NWN 2 manages to reach uncanny valley levels.
Also they fucked up the casting sounds for no good god damn reason.
And it has zero class balance. Arcane Scholar is so retard OP, I mean holy shit.
>>332304694
Not than Anon but Ranger spells are divine magic, they are granted by a deity you worship.
And since Bishop was faithless, he shouldn't be able to cast anything.
>>332304765
My nigga. That art-design of the first game is unsurpassed.
>>332304694
He is atheist
Atheists can't cast divine spells at all, or they can if god favour them
If god favour you, then you don't end up in the wall even if you are atheist
I personally blame obsidian incompetent writers
>>332304765
You have to be smoking crack if you think NWN1 had good class balance.
>>332304831
Couldnt you already get powers from nature in general in 3rd ed?
>>332305030
It didn't.
But it was still better than NWN 2s balance.
>>332305012
Good writing should take precedent over retarded gameplay mechanics.
>>332304976
>Dex build
>Wearing full plate
Full retard
>>332304562
There isn't much. Even the ones I enjoyed were massively flawed.
If you can overlook mediocre translation and general batshit insanity, try claudius33's mods (16 cygni, sarmates, I think there's another one too)
If you can overlook typos and a slightly annoying companion that the modder clearly wants to be your waifu, try the "from this comes strength" series (the first few are great anyway, I got fed up in the 5th or so when it tries to turn into generic save-the-world drama crap)
>>332305134
>But it was still better than NWN 2s balance.
Not even close
>>332305012
>>332304831
Yet taking spells from nature is a thing in 3rd ed.
Druids often do. Some clerics are also able to do it with large concept like Good
>>332305245
Then you're the one smoking crack, nigger.
The reason most multiplayer servers decided not to switch to NWN 2 was because NWN 2s balance was COMPLETELY fucked, where as NWN 1s balance was only half-way fucked.
>>332305078
It was always based on worshipping a nature-realted deity as far as I know.
Magic is either arcane or divine in D&D, there is no middle ground.
>>332305475
So where do spell-like abilities come from then, like Beholders have?
I'd even argue Sorcerers don't use EITHER arcane or divine magic, more innate magic. Arcane to me seems like its more in line with a wizards thing, a scientifically researched way to manipulate the world with laws and axioms that must be followed.
>>332305475
Depends on the setting.
>>332305475
You know bad, anon.
Divine magic is accessible without gods. It simply is much easier to get on a god good sides, and have the network work with you
>>332305701
>So where do spell-like abilities come from then, like Beholders have?
Arcane in it's finest
Even demonic magic is arcane
>I'd even argue Sorcerers don't use EITHER arcane or divine magic
They fucking use same spells as wizzards, they just don't need to research them because they are mary sue characters
>>332305701
>So where do spell-like abilities come from then, like Beholders have?
They are either spell-like as you said, so not actually spells, or arcane magic, or granted by a beholder deity if there is one.
>I'd even argue Sorcerers don't use EITHER arcane or divine magic, more innate magic.
They use arcane magic.
Aracane magic is simply manipulating the energy of the Weave. Sorcerers were born with a natural talent and as such do not require extenisive training to tap into the Weave, it's instinctive for them.
>>332305918
>Divine magic is accessible without gods
No, it's not
>>332305380
lmao you dont have a fucking clue, NEN1 was some of the most unbalanced shit ever
Harm/Heal
Timestop
Perma slow that stacked
Dragon builds with over 100+ AC and 1000+ health
Devastating critical
Druids using infinite spell per day glitch
Weapon juggle glitch giving people hundreds of attacks per round
Sanctuary glitch
You just done have a fucking clue.
>>332305924
They use the same spells but don't get them through the same means.Also, pale master a shit, garbage fuckin prestige class
>>332305918
>Divine magic is accessible without gods
How?
>>332305996
Yes, it is. Stop being a little bitch. If you had read the books as often as i did you WOULD know.
>>332305380
Ever tried playing a ranger who actually uses ranged weapons in NWN1?
Don't.
>>332306039
Pale master is literally edgy faggot who decided that he is too cool to rely on god and decided to learn arcane
And his undead control spells still differs from devine ones that serves same purpose
>>332306051
Profound devotion to a concept.
>>332306000
>Harm/Heal
Harm requires a touch, good luck with that against anyone with decent AC. Heal is limited by spell slots.
>Timestop
Disabled on 99% of all pvp servers
>Perma slow that stacked
Disabled on 99% of all pvp servers
>Dragon builds
Ah I remember the dragon builds. Good times.Me and another player named Jan actually made the first Dragon builds. They were shit at first, only refined later to have such stupid high AC. I've always been proud that we were the first, if not the best.
>Devastating Crit
Okay I'll give you this one, that was bullshit. But anyone with decent fort saves would resist it 9 times out of 10. It still fucked casters though.
>Druids with infinite spell per day glitch
Never heard of or experienced this, guessing it was a bug that was fixed on most pvp servers.
>Weapon juggle glitch
Also never heard of or experienced this.
>Sanctuary glitch
Sanctuary stopping things from attacking you is the purpose of the spell. If you're talking about attacking while in sanctuary, must have been another thing fixed by the community because I never saw it on pvp servers.
I'm guessing you didn't actually play on dedicated pvp servers like I did.
>>332305380
NWN1 Class Tier List
>God Tier:
Druid
>Top Tier:
Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Shifter
>High Tier:
Champion of Torm, Black Guard, Bard, Weapon Master
>Mid Tier:
Paladin, Harper Scout, Pale Master, Fighter, Red Dragon Disciple, Dwarven Defender
>Low Tier:
Monk, Ranger, Rogue, Assassin, Shadow Dancer, Arcane Archer, Barbarian
>>332306291
That's not divine magic per se, that's just the "If you believe hard enough it's true" law that works in the D&D setting.
>>332306198
Elaborate why?
Main problem with being an atheist in forgotten realms is that while possible, youll be on the gods shitlists. Enjoy spending your time on the wall of the faithless for the rest of eternity or until some demon decides to take you for their own fun times, faggot.
>>332306417
>monk
>low tier
>shadow dancer
>low tier
>barbarian
>low tier
>shifter
>top tier
confirmed for not having a clue what hes talking about
>>332306445
And it manifest as divine spells.
>>332306612
If I remember correctly, that's why most people that would choose not to worship a good don't; some idea of defiance or justice.
>>332306497
Because not only do ranged suck in general, rangers actually have no support for ranged whatsoever, only for dual wielding.
At least in NWN2 they can choose between being either dual wield or bow rangers.
>>332306394
Not him, but are you absolutely sure you played NWN?
>requires a touch, good luck with that against anyone with decent AC
a touch attack, ie. one that ignores armour. with a character built to succeed at touch attacks, you'll hit anyone but the most dextrous halfling just about every time
>Heal is limited by spell slots.
so is harm, theoretically, but in practice you can get so many castings that it's almost irrelevant
>Weapon juggle glitch
>Also never heard of or experienced this.
switching weapons with the right timing could get you extra attacks. This was extremely well known and frowned upon
also I don't really understand how "it was so brutal that modders disabled it" is an argument that it had good balance
>>332306612
>Enjoy spending your time on the wall of the faithless for the rest of eternity
>implying
>>332306698
Yeah, some choose to not worship anything. Wont change their fate in the afterlife though. Hating the gods is fine, just dont expect the gods to care about your fate in the afterlife either.
Starting BG2 for the first time ever. I really have traps in CRPGs, should I just make a thief so I can see the traps always?
>>332306694
Yeah, in a way.
But I doubt Bishop believed so hard in being able to heal wounds and summon badgers just like that.
>>332306839
I remember wanting to help her tear down the wall the first time I played, but not being able to.
>>332306872
Basically. Fool's errand, no matter how much you want it. You've gotta be a spirit eater or some other 30th level hero to be able to have a shot at trying to remove the wall.
>>332306895
You're going to control a party of 6 people. You can just recruit a thief for that. Did you play BG1 already?
>>332306394
>Harm requires a touch, good luck with that against anyone with decent AC. Heal is limited by spell slots.
Touch attacks ignore all AC other than dodge in NWN1, Druids in NWn1 get infinite spells per day
>Disabled on 99% of all pvp servers
That is not helping your case, if 99% of servers disable it theres something wrong with the balance.
>Disabled on 99% of all pvp servers
That is not helping your case, if 99% of servers disable it theres something wrong with the balance.
>Me and another player named Jan actually made the first Dragon builds
I hope you dont actually believe that
>Never heard of or experienced this, guessing it was a bug that was fixed on most pvp servers.
As i said you know jack shit about NWN, no it was never fixed since the cause of the glitch was hardcoded into the game and unfixable.
>Also never heard of or experienced this
Why am i not suprised
>Sanctuary stopping things from attacking you is the purpose of the spell. If you're talking about attacking while in sanctuary
Yes there was a bug that caused the effect of sanctuary to remain permanently even while attacking, it was pretty inconsistent and most servers just disabled the spell, still it speaks of how unballanced the game is.
>I'm guessing you didn't actually play on dedicated pvp servers like I did.
Nigger who the fuck you trying to kid?
>>332307007
I didn't from what I understood BG1 is fairly simple and you can pretty much skip it, no?
>>332306661
>monk
>not low tier
>shadow dancer
>not low tier
>barbarian
>not low tier
>shifter
>not top tier
confirmed for not having a clue what hes talking about
>>332293063
I find it more retarded that many female players draw or write fanfic about this insufferable faggot, writing about how they want to save this faggot or change his way. Even Ammon, who is supposedly more evil than Bishop, has more redeeming factor for him and a better story to boot.
>>332307134
I definitely wouldn't skip it. It's a good game BG2 is just an improvement on all fronts. There's a bunch of returning characters you won't know if you skip the first game.
>>332306839
Only god who has managed atheist souls without the wall was Jergal and he was basically king shit of all evil. The modern gods dont have the power to make demons piss themselves to death even thinking messing with their buisness.
>>332306895
You'll get a thief henchman almost after start of the game.
>>332306661
Im sorry but you are a casual idiot who knows nothing abut NWN. please stop talking its embarrassing.
>>332306612
I am still fucking mad that I couldn't destroy the wall, even if I play as an evil character. Is the wall destroy by now in the new edition?
>>332306824
>hit anyone but the most dextrous halfling
No.
You'll never hit anyone with a touch attack who has over 70 AC (read: everyone with a non-shit build)
And that's assuming they don't resist the spell via spell resistance, which harm is susceptible to. And I'm not 100% sure on this but I think there's a fort save for half damage as well. Harm a shit. You don't roll cleric for harming spells, you roll cleric for buffing spells to bash the shit out of heathens with.
It had good balance because server owners could disable it. NWN 2s toolkit is fucked all kinds of ways to wednesday, and you can't fix the balance on there with just some .ini tweaks and disable ability/spell/feat scripts.
>>332300723
Speaking as a longtime DM, that's not true, and whoever said it is doesn't fucking understand the game.
>>332307318
WotC wouldn't allow it back then. Ironically they got rid of it in 4e
>>332297638
Whether it helped or hurt, Sand going off on that Luskan bitch at the trial was worth every second of him shooting his mouth off.
>>332307318
The current god of the dead considered removing it but decided to keep it since it was too important or something.
>>332307094
Confirmed for shitpost king. I'm surprised you managed to bait me this far though.
>>332295952
Well, if they wanted to give you an evil companion, thats one of the only ways they can do it. You have to share a common goal or else it just doesn't work. He may not be super evil, but he's not nice enough to be neutral; if there was no common goal, he'd be at odds with a good or neutral mc.
>>332307346
>A touch attack denies the defender their armor and shield AC (base and bonus), as well as their natural armor bonus to AC. All other armor class modifiers, such as the size modifier, dexterity modifier, and deflection/dodge bonus apply (or don't apply, e.g. if flat-footed) normally. Consequentially, touch attacks sometimes have a significantly better chance of hitting than regular attacks.
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Touch_attack
>>332307472
>Ironically they got rid of it in 4e
No they didn't.
>>332295657
Alignments can be great if they are done in an original and interesting way. Usually thats not the case, but sometimes you see some good ones.
>>332307472
They didn't
And it's still exist in the 5
>>332307514
All you are doing is proving how little you know about NWN and how little of an argument you have.
How to make a monk build for nwn1 less shitty?
>>332307639
>Alignments can be great if they are done in an original and interesting way
I wonder who can do them right? not obsidian for sure
>>332307638
>>332307676
Ok, my bad, I think I read somewhere that they did
>>332307829
be a monk shifter
>>332307885
Probably from that shitty LP.
>>332307929
I mean a build with most levels of monk, not just a single.
>>332307885
Just for the info, first thing that Kelemvor did after becoming god was removing this wall
It doesn't worked out so he returned it
>>332307346
>You'll never hit anyone with a touch attack who has over 70 AC
lmao, thats not how touch attacks work in NWN
>And that's assuming they don't resist the spell via spell resistance
Its extremely easy to bypass SR in NWN, the only think thats not going to get hit by harm is a Rakshasa build (more unbalanced)
>And I'm not 100% sure on this but I think there's a fort save for half damage as well
LMAO no harm has no save in NWN1 have you even played the game?
>It had good balance because server owners could disable it. NWN 2s toolkit is fucked all kinds of ways to wednesday, and you can't fix the balance on there with just some .ini tweaks and disable ability/spell/feat scripts.
You could do exactly the same in NWN2 in exactly the same way, you could LITERALLY edit scrips identical to NWN1 in NWN2, you are absolutely full of shit.
>>332307192
They don't care about character alignment as long as he handsome.
I want to do some sort of spellsword but without wearing fullplate or a shield or any of that. Is this a good build to follow?
http://nwn2db.com/build/?28493
>>332308091
It didn't work out because the other gods made him put it back, then Ed Greenwood's avatar popped up to say "HEY DON'T DO THAT AGAIN."
Greenwood's got a lot of problems, meng.
>>332307192
Ammon is creepy old guy though eww
Someone post that dragon build.
>>332307481
Because every other god would come barreling down to his office to fuck with him.
>>332308762
Yeah i guess being god of the dead is suffering if youre not Jerkal who could just say fuck off i do what i want.
>>332308621
>immortal god slayer destroyer of planets master of the universe
>14 INT
>>332308482
>It didn't work out because the other gods made him put it back
No it's because people decided worship only evil gods
>>332309394
Who needs INT when you have a +8 barbed dragon penis
>>332309394
wisdom is superior
>>332310928
>wisdom
All classes who need wisdom are cancer
Coincidence?
>>332311730
>All classes who need wisdom are cancer
You mean any class who doesn't want to get mind controlled?
>>332311895
Any class that doesn't want to get mind controled is cancer
t. Sir Brian Consumptington
>>332293063
i liked Bishop he was a no nonsense kind of guy
>>332312238
I liked his dagger that shit murdered people.
>>332306839
Kaelyn was my waifu. I'd assault the Wall with her.
>>332296182
>it's only about how people perceive you
>commit a crime with no witnesses
>-10 karma
Yeah no.
>>332312238
Bishop was a reasonable asshole.
The kind of person we all aspire to be in our later teens.
>>332300350
>Prophet
>best
But that's not how you spell Hex Coda, or Demon Heart, or even ADwR.
>>332313378
>ADwR
Had me right up until that point, almost got me you sly dog.
>>332312942
Thats just Bethesda's incompetence. Need I remind you that horses and chickens could catch you stealing in Skyrim on release?
Actually I am not even certain if they patched it.
>>332313628
>playing Skyrim for the first time
>just out of the tutorial dungeon
>punch a chicken on the road
>entire nearby village goes hostile
>>332313598
What's wrong with ADwR it's more rpg than motb
>>332313628
>Im officer Cluck and this is deputy Hooves, im placing you under arrest, anything i lay may be taken down as evidence and used against you
>>332314025
I did the same exact thing except I was naked, the plane nord template and had a 2 handed sword.
>>332314075
Oh yeah, nothing's wrong with it. When your character isn't being gangraped or sucking and fucking, it's a half-way competent "move as slowly as you can to maximize you chance to detect traps" simulator.
>>332314075
>>332313598
ADWRPart Oneis legitimately a good thief module though.
>>332314075
That's not saying much when motb is "yes" or "no but yes"
>>332314545
Yes.
Even if you don't like the sex parts, it's still better than almost all other modules.
>>332314803
>look mom, I posted it again
>>332293136
fucking this
>>332314932
>defending forced companions
>>332315059
Great arguments, fagtron.Yes.
>>332315169
Like Morte and Imoen you mean?
NWN2 with Kaedrin PRC is loads of fun
>>332315721
I always feel like D&D is such a waste of time and effort. It has like a thousand different classes but most of them are complete garbage. Either get a limited amount of classes and put some actual effort into each of them, or just stop trying and switch to a classless system. Don't just throw your shit at the wall and hope some of it sticks, for fuck's sake.
>>332315553
>if a game does something shitty it's okay to do it in other games
Also you're not stuck with Imoen. Even in Irenicus' dungeon she can flee it without you.
>>332316046
That's why BG has the best class system.
>>33231572
I liked NWN1's PrC Pack a lot more. It had a lot more classes and PrCs I actually liked, not to mention the significant feat expansion across the board.
>>332316245
AD&D is best D&D
>>332315721
>Kaedrin PRC
>>332316046
>It has like a thousand different classes but most of them are complete garbage.
This was actually intentional on the part of the developers, it was supposed to encourage 'system mastery'(read: fuck you over if you were a new player or were a type of player who didn't care about character building and happened to pick one of the many many many intentionally shitty classes) like bad cards in MtG are, because apparently adapting a content model from a game meant to sell cards is a really good idea for an RPG.
>>332316138
>if a game does something shitty it's okay to do it in other games
No, but your claim the game is bad is based entirely on this. So P:T and BG2 were shit games too by that logic, right?
>Also you're not stuck with Imoen
You are not stuck with Safiya either. And how do you excuse Morte?
>>332316337
It's great
And miles better than that pig disgusting badly put together Player Resource Continum for NWN1
>>332316454
>treating a cooperative roleplaying game like a competitive card game
Literally cancer.
>>332316613
Welcome to the main reason 3E was utter shit and had no business having the D&D name. 3E is borderline unplayable if you went into it trying to play it the same way a lot of AD&D groups played that game.
>>332316613
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XGp5ix8HE
>>332316527
>shitty put together mostly copy pasted quantity over quality mod by some idiot who thinks he knows better than actual game developers
>good
>ever
These kinds of mods are always nothing but pure garbage.
