So why are monks so often under represented in rpgs most of the time. The only time I can think of is disgaea and ff tactics and ff1. Where are there games where monks are than just the weakest in dps. also why? Is it because if given any leg up they be over powered? seems like monks are the hard to balance with other classes.
>>332269019
and let's not make them in to dbz fighters either. More like early dragonball fighters, where techniques really make a difference.
bumpin' technique
also easter is done over here.
>>332269019
Most FFs have a character who is attributed to Monk class, for example Tifa is a monk.
>>332269019
>So why are monks so often under represented in rpgs most of the time.
Because in WRPGs and related games they're almost always shit. Literally every D&D Monk until 4E was utter garbage.
monks were in GW1 and iirc they were top tier
>>332269697
true and its interesting how people seem to forget this
>>332269728
I thought d&d monks could be celestial is built right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV3YyrKJv7Q
>>332269697
yes but they are always secondary characters and mostly are never played to their fullest, at least from what I see other players do.
>>332269728
The Diablo 3 monks were pretty great.
>>332270091
funny how Russian they were, but I could never build them properly.
>>332270091
niggas were so fast with the proper get up. shit was great.
>>332269728
monks were OP as fuck in BG2
>>332270091
>Diablo 3
>Anything great
>>332269019
>>332269728
Are you faglords forgetting EverQuest 1999 monks? You always wanted a monk in your party.
In FF5 mastering monk with everyone early on is extremely useful.
Remember when Monk was good?
It wouldn't be hard to make a solid RPG game, even ignoring RPG maker. Game maker, Unity, etc. Most of the work done in an RPG is balancing it.
>>332269697
Tifa is not a monk.
>>332270187
No they weren't, they were strictly inferior to a Fighter or god forbid a Paladin in every way.
>less HP due to having less hit die and not being able to benefit from high CON the same way
>less THAC0 and attacks than either class
>no armor unless you bug the game to get Keldorn's plate armor
>no shields
>can't use weapons worth a shit and hands aren't enough to make up for it
>can't be buffed with Improved Haste or similar buffs which COMPLETELY FUCKING KILLS THEM in a party
>spell resistance is terrible
And despite all of this they're still objectively better than the 3E Monk.
>>332270073
FF monks are
FF1 you choose Monk as a class
FF2 Josef is a Monk and is a temporarily a party member
FF3 you can choose Monk class
FF4 Yang is a Monk and is a main party member
FF5 you can choose Monk class
FF6 Sabin is a Monk and main party member
FF7 Tifa is a Monk and main party member
FF8 Zell is a Monk and main party member
FF9 Amarant in a Monk mixed with Ninja and main party member
FF11 you choose Monk class
FF12 you choose Monk class
FF13 Snow is a Monk and main party member
FF14 you choose Monk class
FF15 Gladiolus is a Monk mixed with Gladiator and main party member
Then even more in the spinoffs like Tactics you choose Monk, FF Type-0 Eight is a Monk, etc
Tactics monk is godlike.
>>332270459
what is she then, she was trained by a monk
>>332270459
Yes she is, she even literally trained under her father who was one too.
>>332270418
remember when boob slider aren't a thing and all girls created equal
>>332269019
Its so shitty how few Monks are in games, especially with how many different and amazing fighting styles exist.
Even in tabletop RPG's they're under-represented most of the time.
>>332270507
>FF12 you choose Monk class
nani
>>332270507
never looked at it like that, I just felt they weren't as fleshed out other than you meet the master and you monk learns his final move. Wish they made the Monk the MC in a final fantasy, it seems every Final Fantasy the MC had to have a sword.
>>332270882
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Monk_%28Final_Fantasy_XII%29
>people who equip gloves/weapons on their monks destroying their damage output
>>332270585
Pugilist.
>Tree of Savior
>Monk class using mace and shield instead of bare fucking fist
>>332269418
>More like early dragonball fighters
THIS
>>332271038
that's only a precursor to monk
it's like calling her a black belt before monk. She is clearly a monk.
>>332271232
at least Sabin was like that, he had all the DB moves. His strongest move wasn't even his Kamehameha or his suplex.
>>332271194
That shit made me not want to play that game.
>>332270156
>Get equipment that Exploding palm applies exploding palm upon exploding
>get equipment that adds another misterious ally.
>THE GAME IS PLAYING ITSELF JOHN
>>332271459
That isn't canon, that is literally just an animation result of doing suplex on any enemy sprite
>>332272483
>isn't canon
says who?
you couldn't do it to any other large bosses but this one.
I am just mad I fell for the bait now
EverQuest monk legit best monk
>>332270596
Pretty sure she trained under another master. Even before all the compilaton of ff7 bullshit
Also
>tifa's dad
GODDAMN that dude just spells "I AM DISAPPOINT". No wonder Cloud stayed away from him.
monk is just a rogue without daggers
>>332273436
Monks don't steal fagit.
>>332272915
shits legit. from fighting monsters to fighting a god, with magic and fairies called moogles, this is what make fags stop and say, "there is no way he can do that!"
>>332273436
monks done have poison, and rogues can't do fighting techniques.
>>332273436
MonKS are not niggers who steal
one thing pillars of eternity did rigth was the monk.
the class is a fucking beast and shreks everything.
>>332273554
>sabin has beards on his shoulders
haah waaw
Also, the only thing that sucks about suplexing the train is that it isn't an instant kill for the train.
Sega think they slick tryna hide what he's really doin.........
>>332272915
No you can do it on any enemy
>>332273961
no you can't, not to large bosses. Deal with it, it's canon.
>>332274003
Yes you can, it's not canon at all because it never happens in any story capacity, it's just an animation result of doing suplex on an enemy sprite
>>332273807
well it is a phantom train
>>332274045
it's canon, I don't know why people hate the idea it's canon, and no you can't do it to kuja final form you can't do it to other large bosses
>>332274127
kefka*
>>332269019
FF1, 4, 6, 7, 8, 14 all had powerful monks/hand to hand fighters
Everquest, pretty sure project1999 did a census and monks were like 40% of the server population or some shit like that
Teras Kasi in SWG were damn near godlike. I cant remember EU lore from like 14 or so years ago but didnt Teras Kasi keep Jedi "under control" or something?
Diablo 3 had fun as fuck monks for awhile
I vaguely remember monks in WoW also being OP for a bit
Legend of Legaia
huh OP might be right, I cant think of anymore
>>332274045
>it's not canon
Could you please rub some razor wire all over your anus?
>>332274190
I played legend of Legaia
best girl didn't win that one.
Anachronox had a monk character
>>332274045
>didn't happen in the story
yeah it did, it was available to you, you saw it happen.
just because it happen doesn't mean all the characters need to stop and say, hey that guy suplex a train. they fight monsters and gods, you think this is new to them?
If I had to guess I'd say a lot of the casual players would think that because they can't equip weapons then they are weaker than every other class. And if a majority of the fanbase doesn't use a certain thing then the developers don't want to put time into making it balanced.
>>332274363
was it any good?
I always thought the disparity between the typical fantasy monk and the actual concept of the monk was sort of strange.
At what point did the focus on unarmed combat alone become more central to the image of a monk over their more general/versatile and ideological approaches in discipline and body-mind self-mastery?
>>332274481
they should make shit that you can equip to monks, I saw some crazy shit on the new dragons dogma that you can be an alchemist using potions and fist fighting which is cool.
>>332274481
It's the other way around. Casual players usually think they're broken because they get abilities that look cool.
>>332274579
I don't know, since they don't require enchantments or equipment or magic, it makes them boring to the fantasy setting, and them relying on human spirit was considered weak and overlooked.
when people think monks they think breaking bricks and when fighting an armored foe people casually think guy in armor is going to win, or guy with bow will win, or guy with magic will win.
>>332274651
You think? because I had the idea that monks were weak until quite recently. Maybe it's both. No one cares about monks because they aren't balanced and because no one cares the devs don't balance them.
>>332274651
I don't agree, when people get monks they see low dmage because the monk hits twice or doesn't do burst damage.
I haven't seen a monk do anything cool in a long time since MMOS started getting popular.
>>332274780
>You think?
I don't think, I know. I've had to explain why the D&D 3E Monk is shit to new players who automatically assume "WOW IT GETS NEW STUFF EVERY LEVEL, IT'S SO OVERPOWERED!" for nearly fifteen years now. Go into any NWN thread and you WILL find people claiming that Monk is OP.
Their equipment options are usually always lackluster imo.
>>332269883
It;s one of the reasons i like some of the more athletic looking art for Tifa
>>332274127
It's not canon, it's literally the same fucking thing as Tifa being able to turn the Omega weapon on its head.
>>332274438
No it isn't, it is not a specifically animated thing or story section where Sabin suplex's a train, it is literally a fucking animation result of X doing command Y on enemy Z
Doing suplex on any enemy does the same thing of flipping the sprite and dealing damage, it is nothing more than an animation result of that, it is not canon part of the story or something that Sabin actually does as part of the story
Monks are inherently problematic to design around.
Inventory based game? Monks have no weapon slots, how do you scale their damage? Cant do it by level or they become OP or useless, and its unfair if they can compete with high end gear without needing to acquire it.
Theres also capturing the 'feel'. Need to make them fast to get the feel, but increasing movespeed is a great way to break all sorts of systems in games.
Its a real headache.
>>332275421
SaGa never had a problem with it when they moved to the glimmer system for techs.
>>332275332
you can't do it to other large bosses, and tifa doing it to diamond weapon and others doesn't account for this game.
By your logic fighting with swords isn't cannon since their animation shows a slash through its sprite. They don't need to explain every fucking detail they place in the game, Sabin can't do it to other enemy bosses even larger and there are some sprites he can't do it too. Look it up.
I prefer Brawlers, "Monk" carries to much variable thematic flavor.
>>332275421
>Knuckle Weapons/Cestae
>Good robes
>Optional:Ki Boosting Prayer Beads
>>332270482
you missed the crazy attack bonuses they get though, plus a natural haste and the ki shot. they were shit to start but become a rapetrain late game
>>332275564
>and tifa doing it to diamond weapon and others doesn't account for this game.
Yes it does because it's the same exact thing.
>By your logic fighting with swords isn't cannon since their animation shows a slash through its sprite
Except we see the characters fighting in cutscenes
Also do you seriously fucking think that Sephiroth doing Super Nova which destroys every planet WHICH HE DOES MULTIPLE TIMES is canon?
>>332275421
see here's the thing, people equate monks to just fist fighters. they forget about all the monk weapons the can apply and monk techniques that come with them. If anything they should make a system where if you equip one thing the monk should learn techniques for it.
like staff, nunchucks, Chinese style swords, spears, sias, and all those techniques can do specific status effects.
Let's not forget about pressure points.
>>332275747
That's more like People equate Fist Fighters with Monks, because 90% of the time people who wnat to be a monk want to be a Fist Fighter as opposed to a foreign man in footy pajamas.
>>332275706
>Also do you seriously fucking think that Sephiroth doing Super Nova which destroys every planet WHICH HE DOES MULTIPLE TIMES is canon?
Man how did this sort of thing even start?
>>332275706
do you think that sepherioth using magic called super Nova is just a name and just creates something similar to do magical damage? does fire really just come out of some ones hand\materia? Seriously if you can't suspend your belief over such details you might as well stop playing fantasy games. Does Vegeta big bang attack create another universe?
It's a fucking fantasy, and you are again accounting 7 for 6, it's canon deal with it.
>>332275658
>you missed the crazy attack bonuses they get though
They don't get these, they simply count as +X weapons for punching through immunity.
>plus a natural haste
Only for movement and this is replicated by a magic item.
>and the ki shot
Stunning Fist isn't that good past BG2's early game.
>they were shit to start but become a rapetrain late game
As opposed to Fighters, who start off strong and even kitless are much stronger than a Monk in the lategame?
Monks are just failed Warriors.
>>332275994
You are talking about names which is not the same fucking thing as us VISUALLY FUCKING SEEING something happening
>>332275828
that's the problem as OP wad posting about. They never flesh out the fact that monks are more than fist fighters, WoW at least tries to point this out.
>>332276068
and yet in the game cloud is still there, you think maybe it's just an illusion for the characters to see and feel the impact of the spell.
Again magic being magic, you don't think sepherioth wasn't just tapping into the Super Novas power from a distance and we just get to see what that power looks like?
It's fucking magic, I don't got to explain shit!
If you can't handle train suplex then get out of the fantasy games.
>>332275421
>>332275624
Aye.
Monks are technically suppose to be paragons of close-range combat, but because of the problems that brings, it's easier to simplify them into being "the one that punches and kicks very fast and hard"
They're dexterous and strong enough that they could kick ass with a sword, a fan, a random stick they find lying around, or even yes, just their bare hands.
They're disciplined enough that they can coordinate their movements very precisely, contend with bodily harm or pain well, and generally resist conventional thoughts of physical limitation.
And the kicker is that from an ideological perspective, none of it was for the sake of gaining combat prowess in particular; monks just trained for the sake of simply bettering the concept of "the self"
>>332276027
that's a retarded response if ever heard one.
Monks are beyond warriors, they don't rely on just a sword or axe or even armor, plus warriors are the the autistic version of the monk relying on armor and flailing around.
>>332276261
this anon knows what's up
yang in ff4 is BEST monk
at least in the 3D versions
>>332276008
The monk can make 1 unarmed attack per round, he gains 1/2 an additional attack every 3 levels.
As the monk increases in levels, the damage his fists inflicts does as well:|
Level 1-2: 1-6 Level 3-5: 1-8
Level 6-8: 1-10
Level 9-11: 1-12 Level 12-14: 1-12
Level 15-17: 1-20 Level 18+: 1-20
That half attack every 3 levels is a massive buff, not to mention a monks fists have a range of 2 and a speed factor of 0 regardless of level. Also the damages are actually 1d6 instead of 1-6 and 1d12+1 instead of 13 etc.
>>332276557
explain to me how that dice damage is better?
>>332276008
Oh and by ki shot, I meant quivering palm, not stunning fist.
>>332270059
I like DFO's "Holy Boxer" monks.
In general, I like all of DFO's fist-fighting classes, so I suppose that includes all 8 fighters and one mage.
>>332276557
>That half attack every 3 levels is a massive buff
No it's not, it takes absolutely fucking forever for them to catch up to a Fighter who isn't even using things like Belm in the offhand and they NEVER catch up to a good Fighter who's under Improved Haste/Whirlwind Attack.
>>332276691
Level 1-2: 1-6 (1d6)
Level 3-5: 1-8 (1d8)
Level 6-8: 1-10 (1d10)
Level 9-11: 2-13 (1d12+1)
Level 12-14: 3-14 (1d12+2)
Level 15-17: 3-22 (1d20+2)
Level 18-24: 4-23 (1d20+3)
Level 25+: 5-24 (1d20+4)
Sorry, I messed up, these are how the damage actually works in bg2, compared to how it says it works in the manual:
Level 1-2: 1-6
Level 3-5: 1-8
Level 6-8: 1-10
Level 9-11: 1-12
Level 12-14: 1-12
Level 15-17: 1-20
Level 18+: 1-20
>>332276896
if you're talking in terms of straight damage, yea. But monks make it up in having massive resistances and a huge boost in armor class. Not to mention you know that monks get whirlwind attack too, and they already have a natural speed bonus so they would already be putting out over 6 attacks a round by the time the get it.
>playing monk class instead of glorious Paladin class
>>332276905
forgot about this
>>332277326
paladins are monks with a chip on their shoulder and love to wear shiny armour.
>>332270507
Josef was the baddest of all the badasses.
>>332277323
>But monks make it up in having massive resistances
SR really isn't as good as you're making it out to be and the problems with buffing them with the literal best buffs in the game counteract it hands down.
>and a huge boost in armor class
Fighters are going to beat them in AC hands fucking down and by ToB it doesn't matter because everything hits all the time anyways.
>Not to mention you know that monks get whirlwind attack too
It's also far less effective for them because their attacks are straight up less accurate and less damaging and by the time they get this they get less attacks out of it than a Fighter does. God fucking help you if you're comparing this to a Fighter with the unnerfed specialization table from BG1/IWD1.
>>332277394
The shiny armor is the best part
>>332276812
Male fighters use their legs, though.
Monks are fun in PVP, but they're obnoxious to fight if you're not a mage/slayer.
They're alright. Usually don't fit the setting and fill the token Asian class role unless there's a samurai or ninja class.
>>332277720
Yeah, it makes great confetti when it shatters :^)
>>332277394
>paladins are monks with a chip on their shoulder and love to wear shiny armour.
Nah, if anything paladins are just zealous brutes with a sanctioned cause. Clerics are where it's at with marital know-how, plus some actual education to back it up.
>>332277865
it's funny how the setting for fantasy is always the Tolkien middle earth default. So limiting in my eyes.
I guess specifically because they don't need gear. if you have one less dude to equip for you should be able to max it out hard on the rest of them, In DnD it's not the same, because the CR in DnD is being made up by the DM as you go along, and there's a real chance of RPing. but vidya needs balance from the get-go. And since it's always balanced so that you Can finish it without a monk, his advantages become meaningless.
>>332277968
I meant chip on the shoulder like attacking heathens and what not.
>>332277987
>villain captures the party and they're disabled somehow to counter their class advantages
>mfw you can't disable the monk because all he really needs is his body
>>332277987
they need to do this with all classes, where you don't need x class to finish the game. but monk is always the extra class that you don't need.
>>332278054
ff4 did this, they mention it in the ds version saying yang doesn't have to worry since he doesn't use metal armor.
>>332278054
literally the only time a monk has value
>>332270091
Easily the best class.
>>332278178
sad state of affairs that is, is way too ignored over the autistic sword lovers.
>>332277865
it goes to show they don't put much effort in to making monks, they just say it's a fist fighter know some karate moves and at the end unarmed monk does the most damage, than an armed one. it's like they don't like Kung fu movies or something.
Why do people keep talking about having to design around monks not needing equipment? Sure that's sort of a staple from D&D, but there's no reason any game has to follow that, and the vast majority of games that have a monk don't.
>>332269019
>what is diablo 3
>>332278383
Honestly that's what's attractive about monks for me: they don't rely on equipment and they punch the shit out of people. Beyond that if you go too far into my spirit techniques you end up looking like a shaman who punches people. I don't like that.
>>332269019
That's a pretty cool drawing. Who drew it?
>>332278383
mainly monks training their bodies to be harder than steel. but they can still make armor that increases their ki flow or some shit like that, there really isn't any reason.
>>332278729
found it on a what class are you site, don't know who made it
>>332277686
>SR really isn't as good as you're making it out to be
The monk's natural spell resistance tops out at a whopping 78% add that to saving roll bonuses (+3 by level 15 IIRC), immunity to poison and diseases and that's not even including any gear
>the problems with buffing them with the literal best buffs in the game counteract it hands down.
Not really, monks get to the point where they literally can't attack any faster. They can get 10 attacks off in a single turn at later level. Not to mention this allows them to use the ring of free action uninhibited, this combined with the aforementioned spell resistances and save bonuses make everything in the game pretty much a breeze
>>332270420
> Confirmed for never making a game.
You don't realize all the assets. Rpgs are the hardest games to make unless you use game maker
>>332279147
I remember I got poison immunity, ran from a poison bomb didn't realism I had nothing to worry about
>>332278054
FF8 does this. When they're all inside the galbadian prison, moping about having their weapons taken, zell goes all "Lol niggers, my weapons are my fists, brb jailbreak".
>>332279008
It kinda looks like Tetsuya Nomura's artwork, but not quite.
>>332279505
>tfw you realize adhd spokesperson Zell is this games monk
>>332279008
>>332279524
Oh yeah, it's Yang from FFIV The After years.
>>332270507
Man Gladio literally threw and impaled an Iron Giants sword into itself
>>332269019
I've given up on waiting for a game that does monks justice
Just play D&D and you can fulfill all your monk fantasies
>>332270507
FF10?
>>332280125
FF10 didn't have a Monk type or an analog to one.
>>332280029
not easy to find people to play with my age
>>332280125
Waka was the closet thing to it and even then.
>>332280029
>Just play D&D and you can fulfill all your monk fantasies
Unless you're playing 1E or 2E, in which case you have wizard HP, or 3E, in which case you fail at literally everything, or Pathfinder, in which case the developers actively hate them and go out of the way to shit on fun things they have when they're not even good in the first place.
>>332280256
>Pathfinder, in which case the developers actively hate them and go out of the way to shit on fun things they have when they're not even good in the first place.
Really? Can you point out some examples?
>>332280385
Crane Wing Style got destroyed because of Pathfinder Society retards bitching about it being 'overpowered' while simultaneously bitching about Barbarians.
Yes, this actually happened
Bg2, never winter nights, Diablo 1...
>>332280541
Diablo 1 had just fist weapons right? I haven't played that one.
>>332278383
Giving monks weapons is the hack's way of doing things unless it's alternative to their own fists with things like staffs.
Really I dont know why more people dont make monk "weapons" into things like beads or holy tokens, keeps the whole appeal of the "fists of steel" while still making them have to gear up.
>>332281024
I always liked the sort of monk that can make anything into a weapon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-EdzUul8gg
>>332281024
They could equip tattoos or sigils that give them stats.
>>332281024
nunchucks are fun, as well as other monk weapons like sais and fans
>these nwn and monk threads recently
Shaolin temples now have access to the internet?
>>332281924
yes my son, and the head monk calls you a faggot, go with peace.
Anyone ever thought about actually becoming a monk? Can't be any worse than shitposting on /v/ all day.
What order of monks is the best?
>>332282356
depends on what you mean, I am currently on the path of spiritual karma yoga and learning Kung fu.
>>332282796
I mean total commitment. Giving up internet, vidya, etc. Joining a group of other monks and spending all your time meditating, or whatever it is they do.
Why do people keep saying Monks can't use weapons?
Could use a staff, Nunchucks, Knuckle dusters and Tonfa
Plenty of cool shit
I always envisioned monks as a martial wizard, where they start out as hot shit but grow exponentially over time.
>>332282356
I've got a few family members who were Fransican Monks, they had a grand old time.
But ultimately, most of the joys in my life are electronic, and I don't actually believe.
Working out is its own reward, you should always be in shape.
>>332273959
Fucking nigger memes' are everywhere.
>>332269019
Guild Wars monks a GOAT
>Protective Spirit + Spirit Bond/Shield of Absorption
You really wanna fuck with this OG?
>>332282940
then they wouldn't be online to tell you what is best really.
>>332281375
Aren't those ninja weapons..?Nunchaku are fucking useless btw.
>>332282940
>go to tibet
>llama tells you to gain knowledge like the others he sent to fucking america and where lots of monks are going for educations
>you get access to the internet while being a monk
Just wikipedia something every day and discuss it with him. You get to shitpost and fap while expanding your mind and body.
>>332284023
ninjistu is actually a mastery of all tools and weapons alike.
but weapons like sais were farming tools and people used those in their martial art against raiding soldiers.
So no, those weapons aren't exclusively ninja weapons.
>>332284453
but fappin already expands your mind and body, especially your body
>>332284023
Take it back.
>>332276261
>so far only fft and saga frontier did monk types right
That's what i'm hearing from you anon, and I agree.
>>332269883
GW1 monks were just a support/healer class.
Does Yuri count?
>>332269019
>>332285747
>monk
>best weapon is a club
>>332284610
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcoePNQ6obA
Post best monk themes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsn_RwOOZiQ
>>332284023
nunchucks are pretty baler if used correctly, don't know what you are talking about.
What we do need is more non-monk unarmed classes in games.
>>332286605
like wizards and alchemists?
>>332286589
They are and obviously someone skilled enough could make great use of one, but it's just a training weapon to teach hand speed and precision. They're really only good for fighting bare handed opponents or those using nunchakku themselves.
There's so many weapons that are simply more practical. I would even call it the least practical flexible weapon since all the others like rope dart/meteor hammer, chain and sickle, or 3 section staff all have a distinct range advantage.
People say that monks in DnD sucks. Why?
>>332272142
Uliana's Stratagem set+Gungdo Gear
>Every third autoattack applies Exploding Palm to every enemy hit
>Seven-Sided Strike applies total damage on each hit
>Seven-Sided Strike detonates Exploding Palm
>Exploding Palm's explosion applies Exploding Palm
You can combine it with the Ring of Royal Grandeur to free up a slot for that headgear that makes SSS apply Exploding Palm, and also get those fist weapons that increase the amount of hits of SSS and increase Exploding Palm damage.
>monks are inherently priestly
>tfw no rogue monks
>tfw no wizard monks
>>332271459
>>332287272
in some editions they are fine. but one edition screwed up the balance and monks were one of the worst classes.
for a more detailed answer see http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/13/optimizing-a-dd-3-5-monk
>>332269019
Not enough good hand to hand combat mechanics.
Other than that best class.
And Blade and Soul has some fun fisty cuffing.
>>332287458
I'd love a full on "Contact magic" monk class. People that cast spells by hitting shit.
Outside of Muscle Wizards, there's no class that really accurately gives off the same feeling.
Not unless you only want to take touch spells.
>>332271194
>>332271487
>0s cooldown 0 mana cost punching skill
Nigger they can spam that shit and then you can upgrade it at trainer for full punching action
>>332276027
This is bait.
>>332285712
>draw a girl
>remove nipple
>call it a boy
>>332285707
You forgot smiting. Healing, protecting and doing correctly the job of any paladin.
>>332287612
sounds like a battle mage, even magic swords men do this but a monk doing it would probably be called a spiritualist.
>>332274864
I think you can do summersaults in wow which looked pretty cool
Too bad the game is shit
>>332287458
The WoW RPG thing had runemasters. They were sort of arcane based monks...
>>332288119
they could also do flying kicks and spinning idlikesomepoundcake kick.
>>332286286
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSkO2Bun7fQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImBolnTVH8
>>332288273
you know what I would like to see, a gun wizard.
>>332287612
Guild wars had touch rangers as one of the more fun builds. On the other hand Monks were healers and not bare fisted brawlers.
>>332289023
so cleric monks
In Pillars of Eternity, monks are the most bad ass motherfuckers in the world. They punch fast as shit and strong as fuck. Not only that, but the more you hurt them, the more fighting spirit they get. They use their wounds to do shit like punch motherfuckers across the screen or uppercut people up the air with a right kick.
EQ1 monks were awesome.
>Brawling
>Evading attacks for days
>Countering with crits like a mad man
>Able to solo groups since their evasion was so high
Only thing that sucked about questing solo was their low carry weight. Sometimes you couldn't take all of your quest items out with you, so you had to quest in trips.
Is Gouken a monk? I like Gouken.
>>332291006
I miss that class so much. It's a shame MMOs don't really have monks anymore. At least none of the ones I've played.
are the Pillars of Eternity monks decent?
>play Monk in FFXIV
>almost 350 hours on the game
>can count the number of Monks I've played with on one hand, maybe both
Why does nobody MNK? Tons of DRG, NIN, and BRD, good amount of BLM, some MCH and SCH, but MNK is rare as fuck.
>>332293116
Because of the "Mnk is so easy to play, they even block your skills so you don't mess up" meme.
People just can't handle pressing buttons at fist of the north star levels of speed, so the shitters get filtered into DRG instead.
And that's why we get lolDRGs.
does my waifu count
>>332269019
You know what's really underappreciated? Fucking spelling.
>>332293405
Not gonna lie, I have trouble with off-GCDs sometimes, especially opening and switching between hotbars. Sometimes I stop for a second to make sure my fingers are in the right place and the right bar is up.
>>332293921
Are you at 60?
I had trouble with my skillbar and had to reassign skill positions about 2 or 3 times while levelling. The period from rearranging the bars to getting used to the new positions was really awkward.
>>332272915
Says square, they patched it in rereleases.
>>332294398
I'm at 58, so the only thing I don't have is Tornado kick. I have my main rotations on 123 and QWE, rockbreaker on hotbar 2, stun moves and elixir field on 456, IR an B4B on RT, form shift on `, and misc abilities elswhere that are as easy to get as possible. It's mostly difficult when I switch to hotbar 2 to use final chakra or something, fail to switch back cause I pressed the wrong key, then end up using perfect balance or whatever. Especially when GL3.
>>332274045
Sabin holds up a building to keep it from collapsing. I think suplexing the train isn't out of the question.
Beard Sabin is husbando mode.
>>332293116
I'm a monk, brother.
>>332294904
I have the main rotation tiered into stances on the first hotbar into something like:
Bootshine, Dragon Kick, One Ilm Punch, True Strike, Twin Snakes, Demolish, Snap Punch, Rockbreaker, Arm of the destroyer and meditate
Meditate is mapped to a mouse shortcut, so i can conveniently use it quickly.
Then on the second bar i have mostly cooldown skills:
Haymaker, Shoulder Tackle, Howling Fist, Steel Peak, Second Wind. There's some space before having Purification and Tornado kick.
On the final bar i have buffs and elixir field:
Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Elixir Field, Touch of death and the three fists.
I don't think i'm missing anything.
>>332295568
Putting buffs on another bar sounds like a good idea, I might try that.
I've literally never used mantra. Am I a bad person? I also basically never use touch of death anymore, just no time for it.
>>332295989
Fuck, i forgot mantra. It's right up there on the third bar. I use it occasionally when i feel like the healers are gonna have a tough time.
It's basically on cooldown 24/7 on sephi EX.
Although touch of death tick for low damage, it's long duration time compensates for it. You should always have touch of death and demolish up always.
The two skills i rarely use are haymaker and one ilm punch, but since i'm getting interested in trying out PVP, i won't remove them from my bar just yet.
>>332296531
>>332295989
You guys got me interested in trying FF out. How is it getting into it?
Used to play MMO's all the time, starting back with EQ, but I've taken a long break since getting disillusioned with several recentish releases.
>>332296531
I'll try to use ToD more, just wish it was off-GCD.I want GL4 for 4.0. I wish to become Kenshiro.
>>332296868
It's my first MMO so I'm not sure how valuable my opinion is, but it was really slow at first gameplay-wise, starts picking up around 30 and gets really fun by 50. I was mostly playing for the art and story at first, now it's a legitimate thrill to play and I haven't even done high-skill stuff like coil or alexander.
>>332296868
Do you like final fantasy games? If so, you're probabbly going to enjoy XIV.
If not, you're going to be a bit taken back by the dungeons being locked according to your progress on the main story quest.
>>332296889
GL4 is having the astro giving you the arrow when you have GL3 on.
RIP my TP.
>>332297149
I do enjoy them. And I guess that system just reinforces/encourages/mandates dungeon progression.
To add, I have no desire to raid, been over that for years. Spent too much time in the teens and early 20's raiding, got burned out on it. But I did manage to get both a duck stick and water sprinkler in EQ.
>>332296889
I want to become Bishamon in 4.0
>>332297313
Then you should at least try the free trial period.
Keep in mind that if you consider getting the expansion there's a swamp of boring quests between the ending of the first game until the plot starts picking it's pace.
>>332297879
how do I register for the fucking free trial
the website just tells me to download the launcher and register from it but I just get normal launcher with an option to buy the game
>>332297879
Some of them were okay. I liked throwing gas at the scions. And thank CHRIST they moved scion HQ to Mor Dhona right in front of the aetheryte, I have no idea why's they'd put it like a three minute run from the Horizon aetheryte in the first place.
Monks are the original Meme class.
They were a meme class IRL too
>>332297879
I haven't done any reading about the classes except for what I've read in the thread, so please pardon my ignorance. From what you guys have been saying, the monk class seems to be reliant on activating skills in a rotation, relying on your ability to determine which skills to use and think ahead. In that vein, would you consider them to be analagous to a bard in EQ (with song twisting), or to a lesser degree a warden in LotRo (building your gambits with your base combo builders, meaning you had to plan what you were going to do 10 seconds ahead)?
>>332269019
I'm currently working on a SRPG. I think I've got monks in a pretty decent place but what do you all think are some prerequisites for making monks interesting and good?
>>332299064
It's less reliant on thinking ahead and more reliant on thinking on the ball and making quick decisions. It also heavily depends on positioning, where you need to be to either the side or behind the enemy to increase crit chance.
>>332269019
in bravely default they're one of the more OP classes. I used two in my end game.
>>332299556
>increase crit chance.
Meant damage, only does crit damage with one move IIRC.
>>332299064
The gist of FFXIV mnks are very fast attack speed and determining which skill to use depending on your position and combat stance.
>>332300546
>>332299556
Groovy, sounds interesting. I'll take a look at the free trial, give it a shot.
Thank you both for your input.
>>332269019
Monk is the single highest damage class in FF14.
>>332303000
Nice trips. Are they more of a DPS or an evasion tank in groups? Are they decent soloing?
>>332304451
DPS, they have evasion skills but you'll never use it in groups. They're great soloing, come with their own defensive stance and healing, plus aforementioned evasion skills, combined with high damage I'd argue they're the best solo class besides maybe WAR, or WHM if you're a pussy.
>>332303000
Against training dummies they do well but still can't beat DRG. MNK DPS also drops off the face of the planet when there's mechanics.
Fuck off MNK fag.
>>332269418
JRPGs are really bad at that sort of concept, just, conceptually.
>>332304978
And from what I am reading, you can change between classes, so I can always switch to another strength class if I want to fill a different role in a group, right?
>>332305146
MNK doesn't need to beat DRG, DRG is more than willing to defeat themselves.
>>332305247
>Le maymay
Enjoy being out-dps'd by the OT, fagmuncher.
>>332305314
Enjoy playing a class so infamous for being played by morons the devs even acknowledged it in a promotional video.
>>332305234
You can't change classes after you entered a dungeon. Only on the "overworld".
>>332305146
Found the DRG. Have fun tanking the ground.
>>332305234
You don't even need to stick to strength, class stats are individualized so you can play monk then white mage with no side effects. It's more gear dependent than anything.
>>332305234
You can freely change between any classes you have unlocked when you're not in an instance of some sort. Doesn't matter what its stat focus is.
>>332305424
Cool, thanks for the clarification. Downloading the client now for the free trial, figured I ask a few basic questions before I head in.
>>332305539
That was one thing I loved in the secret world, everything was gear based. If you wanted to play with a friend that was in the starting area, you just equip level 1/2 gear and weapons and everything was a challenge again, even with all of your skills and attacks.
>>332305639
Dungeons sync your level and gear to something appropriate of what you'd have when on the dungeon's target level. There's also these world events called FATEs that you have to sync your level/gear to participate in.
>>332305840
> FATEs
Not exactly a feature I would brag about. I hate grinding those things and even with level sync there's so little challenge I'd rather just plow through them with my own level.
>>332305379
Have fun enjoying a class with shitty DPS so your pride isn't hurt when you play a real class.
>>332305424
Found the MNK who can't break 2k, keep meming when I make you eat my shit in Savage.
>>332305952
What good is reaching 2k DPS if you're going to spend the rest of the fight doing 0 DPS because you're dead?
>>332304978
>FFXIV Monks
>Great soloing
I mean they're not bad by any means, but you literally never get any of your positionals while solo so your damage is always lower than it is in a group. Plus if the mobs are spread apart you drop GL constantly which makes it worse.
>>332305952
I play WHM. You dumbass DRGs always fuck with the tank or overextend so far it's literally impossible to save you then get pissy that I didn't spend all my energy on the futile task of trying to exclusively keep your sorry ass alive when experience has taught me that trying just makes you dive deeper.
Newsflash, the role of the DPS is not to exclusively pump out as much damage as possible. You're also supposed to try and stay alive.
>>332306196
And I'll still do a higher percentage than you because you can't complete a combo while moving, MNK cunt :^)
>>332306221
>Shitty healer who can't do his job
DPS is doing damage, fucktard, I bet you're one of the faggot WHMs who bitched so hard about being asked to cast Holy in dungeons that they nerfed it because "Healers shouldn't work!"
>>332306303
Just because you were filtered to DRG because you can't hit buttons at sanic speed while moving doesn't mean that others can't.
>>332306303
>the class that has to move constantly during their combos for max damage can't complete a combo while moving
>>332306448
>asshurt MNK
How's that 1.4k and no raid slot, buddy?
>>332306530
Pretty sweet. Better than your 0 while dead. :^)
>>332306679
How's it feel that I can be dead half the fight and still do more damage, MNKfag? :^)
>>332306795
I'd say it feels like you're still in a dreamgroundeater.
>>332306428
>Typical dumb dragoon
My job is to keep the party memebers who should be taking damage alive. You should not be taking damage. If it happens every now and then by mistake then fine, I can pretty easily heal you even if we're going fast. But if you're one of those shitters who only cares about their % and is actively, constantly pulling when there is literally someone else in the party whose exclusive job that is you're literally beyond help.
Here's something for you to think over, although I know that isn't DRGs strong suit. If you spend all your effort maximizing how much damage you dish out, that means you haven't spent any effort working on your defense. How the fuck do you expect to stay alive while taking damage meant for a class focused on defense that spends all it's effort on staying alive?
>>332306795
>>332306530
>>332306428
>>332305952
Wew lad, if you feel like you need to justify THIS hard, maybe you should consider taking taking a deep breath and reconsider even playing this game.
>>332306428
>Shitty healer who can't do his job
Not him, but if you're needing more than the occasional regen from the WHM then you're stealing heals from the tank and deserve to die. SCH is a different matter, but WHM is still mana-starved and wasting mana on bad dps is one of the easiest ways to wipe.