What's /v/'s deal on hand holding?
Is it truly just a reason to argue?
I'm being completely serious, /v/ constantly argues that hand holding is bad and that it just makes the game too easy, yet when a game refuses to hand hold they claim it's broken and poorly designed.
Pic related is a perfect example of what /v/ considers "poorly designed" even though it's what they constantly state they want, a puzzle where the player is given no hints and simply told to figure it out themselves.
Obviously any well designed game will communicate and teach things to the player in an subtle way. This is what level design's all about. Hand holding is when a game does it in an obnoxious, obvious, lazy way such as text prompts and lengthy tutorials, and does not let you fail when you're not paying attention.
>>331961513
>I'm being completely serious, /v/ constantly argues that hand holding is bad and that it just makes the game too easy, yet when a game refuses to hand hold they claim it's broken and poorly designed.
No, you're comparing opposite extremes.
The point is that a game can direct a player intuitively without intrusive prompts and immersion breaking tutorials and shit. It's good if a game can unfold its challenge where the player can eventually tackle more difficult things without confusion through natural gameplay and little else.
Demonstrating and explaining videogame mechanics is not hand-holding, that's essential to playing the game (see jumping in the souls series). Being railroaded and the game being very easy is hand holding, and yeah it detracts from the experience. I hate to get all kids-these-days but a game being as hard as any PS1 Crash Bandicoot game is a selling point now because challenge is no longer the default
>>331961513
This was fucking obvious when I was a kid, What else could you do apart from dick around on the red and white drum thing, The wall even shows you that there is more space below it
Holy shit I remember this part. It took me 8 years to figure out that all you had to do was press up and down on the dpad. I feel ashamed.
>>331961513
I just don't like hand holding because I think it encourages developers for the casual crowd to play without ever really trying. The other actual "gamer" demographic will be left out cold and having to suffer the consequences on super fuck easy games.
You know how DLC was never a thing and we thought it was all stupid? Look at it now. Now imagine a future where every fucking game is easy so they can cater to the casual crowd. Not my type of future my friend.
>>331961513
anything that's only used once in the entire game is poorly designed.
The barrel is abysmal game design because the game straight up lies to you about how to solve it
>>331967507
Barrels were used multiple times in the zone, it's just that one of them is right next to a huge wall making it the only one you really had to press up and down on
Huh, it is pretty weird. It's almost like /v/ is made up of more than one person.
>>331967671
and you get through those barrels by jumping. This barrel gives you the same feedback. The "proper" solution is something that was never used in the series before and was never used again. It's poor game design.
>>331961513
/v/ hates it when a puzzle is too easy and calls it "hand-holdey"
But if a puzzle is too hard for /v/, it's boo hoo "this is designed badly"
>>331967695
The majority of /v/ thinks like OP is saying
>>331965028
>The wall even shows you that there is more space below it
This wasn't the problem. The problem was that the drum obviously moved when you jumped on it, so there was this sort of misdirection that you should repeatedly jump on it with perfect timing to eventually get it to move far enough to let you through. Most obstacles in Sonic games, in fact, require jumping on them as part of the solution. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure pressing up and down was never previously used to control any part of the level, or do anything besides make Sonic look up or duck.
As I understand, it actually is possible to get through that barrel by jumping on it.
>>331967991
OP here, I get that, but that's exactly what the majority of /v/ always says they want.
Honestly, they always claim they want a game that gives you no hints and just pushes you into figuring something out yourself, yet the barrel does just that, it gives you no prior knowledge of what to do, no hints, no nothing, just tosses you at it and tells you to figure it out, but /v/ calls it badly designed
>>331961513
It's not hand holding, it's straight up bad game design.
>Other barrels move out of the way by jumping on them, using the physics
>This special barrel that looks just like the other barrels needs up/down to be pressed
>That specific mechanic does not even work with other barrels
That's bad game design, that's bad puzzle design.
>>331968198
>yet the barrel does just that, it gives you no prior knowledge of what to do, no hints, no nothing, just tosses you at it and tells you to figure it out, but /v/ calls it badly designed
You're missing the point. The problem is that the barrel misleads you. It actually pushes you in the wrong direction. Now granted, it's not like there were all that many more options on the controller, but when the "correct" solution is something that you have literally never used in a Sonic game before, and the incorrect solution gives you feedback to make you think you're on the right track, it's a questionable design choice, at best.
>>331968426
In addition, you are never required to press up and down for anything else in the entire game, and you're never given any indication that's what you're supposed to do. Its terrible game design.
>>331961513
My cousin told me you could only to get past this by turning into super sonic on the barrel and using the screen scroll glitch.
>>331968426
>That specific mechanic does not even work with other barrels
It does, actually. It just doesn't do anything useful and is likely to get you squished against some ceiling spikes. So up until that point the game punishes you for trying to move the big teeth barrel things.
