>bullet sponge
what is with this buzz word? Someone mind telling me how you are suppose to make an FPSRPG that isn't bullet sponge?
>>331535193
You make headshots lethal.
duh.
>>331535193
no health regen
You don't make an FPSRPG to begin with because it's a terrible idea.
>>331535193
Even the enemies in Borderlands aren't bulletsponges if you aim for their heads.
Better scaling of weapon power vs enemy health
>>331535193
>Someone mind telling me how you are suppose to make an FPSRPG
you don't
>>331535193
youre not. its just counter strike autists and cod kiddies being butthurt a video game isnt real life
>>331535682
Fucking this, Fallout is the worst offender.
>Shoot normal, unarmored human in the head four times
>Still alive
>>331535193
The solution is - Don't make a FPSRPG, because they're fucking retarded combination of things that should never go together.
Red dead redemption
>shooting limbs is actually useful
Name the game.
>>331535193
With QTE boss
>>331535193
Shot to the head is death. Shot to limb incapacitates or maims.
RPG elements in FPS games is seriously the worst fucking shit ever.
video games arent real people
>>331535193
im not that much into the term, but fallout could count as that.
>have a gun
>shoot people in the head
>they still walk and talk and do the same as nothing happened
imagine if i shoot the chest.
I think its about balance.
if you could actually kill everything with 1 shoot in the head, monsters or bosses or any other living thing will be easy to kill, and will lost their charm or the fear you have for them.
>inb4 headless boss
>>331535193
By touching yourself at night
>>331535193
you make the combat like a normal fucking shooter and the RPG mechanics impact aspacts such as accuracy, recoil control, maybe even range depending on the settingd and whatever fucking aspect that isn't damage
>>331536023
MGS series
>>331535193
>FPSRPG
legit retardation
like combining tooth paste and orange juice, both are total fucking antithesis to one another
>16 year old CS:GO players need muh headshots
>'this game is a dumb idea'
>breaks sales records
yeah real dumb
>>331536023
Fallout
>>331536023
Almost all Fallouts.
>>331536023
SOF 2?
GTA 4?
>>331535759
This.
Vermintide
the only thing that is a sponge is the tank.
you can avoid giving things a lot of HP if you give them destructible armor, make them hard to hit, quantity over quality, location damage, abilities.
those things require programmers who aren't lazy though.
this thread is shills and 50 centers. abandon the boat. don't give them attention
>>331536219
was it really useful in gta4? I mean why draw it out?
>>331536023
RDR and GTA4 but was removed for GTA5.
Why remove good features R*?
>>331536094
You're so used to slow, dull, easy enemies that you don't even realize. If enemies take one headshot to kill but move around like sanic, you actually need skill to aim that shot, as opposed to click long enough to win. There's your balance.
No fucking wonder everything turns to shit.
>>331536303
how was it removed in gta5? there is even a part where if you shoot a cop in the legs he goes down and another cop will draw him into cover
>>331536023
Fable 2
>>331535193
bullet sponges are fine as long as it makes sense. A heavily armoured elite or huge beast could take a lot of hits, a man wearing a hoodie should not.
It doesn't make sense and it just screams of laziness, if a character or enemy can fly, or can take loads of bullets, or is super fast, etc it should be represented visually.
>>331536172
Twilight must be a good movie because of all the sales it got then.
>FPSRPG
Ew. That's just stupid.
>>331536256
>HP if you give them destructible armor
>takes 6 shots to kill
>takes 4 shots to break armour and 2 to kill
There's no difference.
>>331535193
• less emphasis on "kill 20 of these to complete the quest"
• more emphasis on actual role playing in a role playing game
not fucking rocket science.
Generally it's used to refer to enemies that, instead of having fun mechanics to play around, are given obscene amounts of health and AI that's dumb as a sack of dog shit that just stands there and shoots or walks at you
>>331536417
pretty much this
exactly why I couldn't STAND fallout 3 and needed a mod to play NV
>>331536276
It was very useful, you could even shoot the guns out of NPC hands
>>331536402I only played it for a short time at release on my ps3 and when testing it out on pedestrians it didnt work then
>>331536023
RE4 and, obviously, Dead Space.
>>331536172
>This snake oil must work. Look at how many people are buying it!
This is you.
>>331535193
If you get hit in the head? You die. If you get hit in the chest? You die in 4 or 5 hits, or if there's 1 hit, it takes a while. Limb hit? disabled. Bleed out after a huge amount of time.
>>331536330
Its a mix of the enemy speed and how realistic are the hitboxes (wich they are usually shit).
This actually work with small crawling shit, like blood 2 leechs or half life crabs.
>>331535193
don't make a fucking fpsrpg
>>331536542
>re4 and dead space
>fpsrpg
>>331536507
but why draw it out? its pretty easy to go for headshots in 4
>>331536517
well its not as obvious as in 4, the physics aren't as accentuated for one and the NPCs dont react as heavily
>>331535193
Make enemies react to hits.
>>331535193
If you make everyone into a hardcore operator that, for example, reloads a belt-fed machinegun perfectly while sprinting wounded, you have to make enemies hard to kill.
This is the problem with most shooters. The game would be boring as fuck because players are in control of demigods.
>>331535193
For games claiming a substantial amount of realism, like the Division having dipshits running around in hoodies and jeans taking full magazines of assault rifles and still running around is why bullet sponges are currently mocked.
Doom, still one of the best FPS around has it's fair share of bullet sponges.
>>331536023
Dead Space, not useful but critical
>>331536402
In GTA V almost all peds/enemies die or are completely incapacitated if hit anywhere by a single bullet. However in GTA IV people will squirm and try to get away after being hit and will survive many shots to the limbs and even a few to the body before dying. It's much more realistic and more fun.
I actually LIKE bulletsponge enemies. It's like, WOW this guy must be super tough if he needs so many headshots! Immersion
Having a bullet sponge isn't a bad idea. However, it's when you have zero mechanics that go with it.
If you have an enemy that takes a long time to kill, then you better add some mechanics to that fight like:
>He charges at you/fires rockets and you have to dodge
>He has a sniper and you have to take cover
>You have to run around destroying some objects that are making it stronger
>You have to move out of some fire he leaves on the ground
Bullet sponge enemies in games where you just press your heal button when your health gets low are the worst fucking types of games.
>>331536330
Enemies in fallout 3/nv move at a normal speed, some faster than others. The cazadores can move at a sanic speed but if every enemy moved that fast it would we retarded, fallout isn't fucking quake 3.
>>331535193
You don't make them at all
>>331536736
yea I know but its not completely removed in 5, it just doesnt happen as often and they have less health
Borderlands did this shit, and it pissed me off
>>331535193
I think it's important that the enemy properly reacts to where you shoot them and they don't just stomp toward you with the same animations no matter where they're getting hit, it makes the fight enjoyable when they take a lot of shots to go down and rewards accuracy.
>>331535193
As level increase.
>enemies move around way faster
>enemies guess where bullets would land and dodge better
>enemies gain armor that can withstand 1 or 2 hits (nothing more or it'll be a bulletsponge)
>enemies will stay in cover for a very long time, they won't peek out, they'll wait for you to come to them
>enemies use to teamwork on rely on multiple spraying you down to provide supression
>as you level up, you will be able to wear better MORE things
>>331536931
>tfw you played headshot spec mordekai
Only fun way to play tbqh, and certainly did not have that issue against standard enemies
>>331536976
Nah we'll just have them walk slowly towards you, walk quickly towards you, or stand behind one piece of cover
>>331536907
is there a mod for gta v that makes peds more like gta iv?
>>331535193
just because something is an RPG doesn't mean you have to inflate all the numbers
>>331536976
>enemies will stay in cover for a very long time, they won't peek out, they'll wait for you to come to them
or they will use bait helmets or cloth to fool you and make you waste bullets.
Also, increase level could improve reload levels how much much fuck ups you can do with the gun.
But then, you realize that you and i can come up with this ideas, so they could have too, but they decided to not do it, because it takes time and money and they wont see any result in doing it, today the details can be cut because shekels, not include rare details for all to see.
>inb4 ice cubes.
>>331536023
Dead Space
>>331536976
>also, enemies gain behavior to trap and ambush you
>stand right at the doorway with shotgun pointed at head level ready to blow apart unsuspecting players who don't check their surroundings.
>enemies create holes in wall to shot you and you can't shoot them forcing you to use explosives
>enemies feign death to ambush you
>enemies gain ability to count bullets and hear when you reload if you're close enough, they'll rush at you when you're out of bullets.
>at high levels, sniper enemies will no longer you lasers that reveal their position.
>FEAR and even fucking Halo managed to have fun engaging fights without having enemies with billions of health.
Why can't devs do things that were commonplace over a decade ago?
>>331535848
You obviously never played on newgame+ or newgame++ (truevaulthunter mode).
Even as crit-stacked zero you need 10's of headshots with the your strongest sniper for some guys.
>>331536945
killzone 2 did a great job of this. They blended ragdoll physics with their pre scripted death animations to give a really realistic look. Similar to Euphoria in GTA IV but even better imo. It had some nice contextual animations too where the Helghast would try to grab railings and stuff as they fell.
I didn't play later games so I don't know if they carried it into KZ3 or shadow fall.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPL6kfm8Ai4
Make all bullets far more lethal so you have to be more skilled and situationally aware.
>>331537718
>commonplace
>>331535914
At least in fallout 1 and 2 it often came with disadventages for the guy that got hit.
And often they just died because crit.
In division you shoot the head for like 20+ times.
>>331537872
Do anything actually change on new game+ modes in any of the borderlands or is it simply level scaling from there on
By making the gameplay compelling.
>>331537959
Doing a 1 hit kill for everyone is the actual best way to do it.
but that will make casuals cry, but its the most balanced way to do stuff, even on singleplayer games.
the first opration flashpoint did somehow good.
>can get like 4 hits before you die
>shoot in the legs fucks up your movement and speed, or you wont be able to walk, and have to crawl all your way.
>shoot in the arms will fuck up your aim very bad
>shoot in the head fuck up your aim too
>second shot in the head and you are ded
>3 more shots in the limbs or chest and you die
>no health bar
>need soemone else to patch you in the middle of the battle.
cant think of a game who did better.
Bulletsponges literally exist for the purpose of casuals not realising how shitty they are at the game.
Instead of 1-shot 1-kill in the head, which would also aversely affect them, you can unlaod magazines and even if you still die you had the visual presentation of something happening, the feeling that you made a contribution, because "I really shot that guy a lot of times! He MUST have been close to dying! haha"
We can't have proper damage scaling because they get killed before they can get a shot off so they just rage and rage about how shitty they are without ever saying it, only placing blame on everything else.
It's literally just an exploitation of psychology. Broader Audiences 101
>>331536023
In rust shooting the limbs of someone armored does more damage than the armored parts
>>331538121
Well they get a new skin sometimes.
Name change from "badass to badmutha" , "big dog to big hellhound" or something like that
Sometimes they get a small buff like armor or elemental attack.
But for the rest its just +health +damage and thats it , and it scales way way faster then you do.
>>331535193
There are hundreds of ways to make enemies more challenging than making them bullet spongy
There are hundreds of ways to make plausible reasons for enemies to be bullet spongy, and not just "it's a normal human but it's a boss character so shoot him 10x more, I aint gotta explain shit"
>>331535193
You can't, that's why it's a shit idea.
>>331536140
This.
Alternatively make the RPG mechanics separate from the shooter. As in the RPG side governs skills outside of combat. The accuracy, recoil and damage should be governed by the weapon you have and not your level. Your level determines your skills with survival, lockpick, hacking, crafting, etc.
>that guy who thinks rpg means levelling up and random loot drops
STALKER
>>331535193
The oryx fight on destiny was a good example on how to do it right IN THEORY. You dont actually shoot that much at the boss, and use mechanics involving the map or whatever to make him vulnerable. But don't get me wrong, destiny is a shit game and oryx is piss easy and boring. On a related note, spawning adds or giving health regeneration to an mmorpg boss is just as shitty of a cop out.
Bullet sponge is just a word dumbfuck casuals spout because they're too shit to reliably deal sustained damage.
What I love is that they whine about enemies having a lot of health despite the player being a fucking near invicible adamantium box that magically heal their wounds through mysterious "medkits" or similar. But do they whine? No, because it benefits them.
Then we have the retards that just say 'Just turn up damage for everyone like in Stalker!' okay faggot, lets do that. And then also not give you quicksave you little crutchfag bitch. See how much shit you talk then.
>>331535759
This
>>331535193
>better damage scaling for levels/weapon upgrades
>shooting limbs affects enemy capabilities
>shooting head either 1-shots or at least crits hard
>lower enemy health to an amount where it doesn't feel like you've been fighting the same enemy for 10 minutes but still enough that it actually feels like you had some time to fight and learn how the enemy operates
>for bosses, cut unnecessary phases/cycles down or make each phase/cycle more unique. When a player clearly has the pattern down, don't make them do it 6 more times if virtually nothing is changing
Stupid question as over 65% of /v/ doesnt play games, they spend 24/7 here pissing and moaning about them rather than enjoying playing
>>331535193
>>how you are suppose to make an FPSRPG that isn't bullet sponge?
don't make them
Mixing real time action and heavier RPG elements is just a bad idea in general.
D&D had stats and dicerolls because it had to somehow account for the players lack of direct control, it needed a subsitute. The more "in control" you get when playing, the less sense a lot of old roleplaying conventions make. Like misses and critical hits for example.
Of course, I'm not saying it's all bad. In real life you can get stronger by training, so there is a sort of logic in "more strength=more damage with a sword" and so on. But shit like the Divison doesn't have any sense, there is no "inward logic" to it all. You're just simply supposed to believe guys in hoodies can take a million bullets, not because of any justification in the world it creates, but simply because it's an RPG. "It's the way an RPG is supposed to be." as if it's putting some kind of arbitrary restrictions on itself.
And I say fuck that.
E.Y.E did it well
>>331541658
>Arbitrarily limiting what settings you can use based on genre type
Boo this man
>>331536023
Binary Domain
Some of the best limb-based damage in vidya
>>331542105
that might just be one of the most underrated games in the last 15 years
>j''ournalists'' too lazy to actually play games disregarded it as a gow clone
FUCK
>>331541658
This is the correct opinion
>>331541932
Rather than that, how about stop designing games to fit genres?
Instead of having games play by the rules of genres, design them to play by the rules of the game itself in a way that makes sense.
If you're seriously using some kind of "genre rulebook" very seriously then you have failed as a game designer in my opinion.
>>331541658
THIS.
You will need to look for perfect merge, wich is indeed hard, because of the RNG.
RNG contained its good because it "simulates" how you operate the weapon, wich is not perfect and not allways the same.
But how much damage can deal a HIT its pretty bad implementation.
Stronger, non-cheating AI.
