What went wrong ?
Everything
/v/ said it would save MMOs after saying Black Desert would save MMOs after saying Blade and Soul would save MMOs after saying ArchAge would save MMOs.
>>331454963
MMO's are and always be a terrible genre.
>>331454963
After Wildstar said they'd save MMOs
>>331453574
Let's take this promising looking F2P MMO
Then we'll make it indistinguishable from any other korean MMO
Then we're going to cancel the beta and call it a release
And then, AND THEN, we'll make it 30% more expensive than a standard MMO's sub fee.
>>331454963
>vindictus remains the f2p mmo with the most mileage because the simple formula of smacking ragdolls across a map with flashy attacks never gets old
DFO is equal or close second because of arcadey goodness. Just run a few levels a night. Fuck the rest. Fuck Maple in particular.
>>331453574
Eh nothing?
I had fun in CB. And I plan to play it in April. Feels like Ragnarok all over again but with a real quest structure and is filled with players.
Or you mad people rushed the contents when they had limited time in CB like all the other CB?
>>331454963
THIS TIMEWILL BE DIFFERENT!
>tfw bought the 49,99 early access
is it p2w ?
>>331453574
People assumed it would be the spiritual successor to RO.
>>331453574
IMC turned out to be jews, cash walling even things like player trading.
Nothing
>>331456257
Ehh.
You pay for tokens which unlock trading, stop the auction house from taking a third of your money, give you a huge exp boost and more dungeon runs per day. There's a bunch of other conveniences on the cash shop like reset scrolls, etc.
You can buy damage bonus enchantments from the store, but I'm not sure if it's anything significant.
The main concern I have is that the early access deal is probably the best deal you're going to get. After that, tokens are going to be twenty fucking dollars each and they only last 30 days. You can also sell them on the market, ultimately meaning you can straight up buy in game currency from the cash shop.
To the average player I'm imagining they're going to take one look at this and think "Fuck that"
These fucking falseflags. The game isn't out yet.
>>331456976
>staff on the ToS website said that 100 TP is the equivalent to 9 dollars
>tokens cost 198 TP
>The game literally has an 18 dollar monthly fee
>>331456976
>multiple betas before today
>cash shop prices are public knowledge
>the game is actually out in Korea right now and you can get a Korean account
>>331456929
Hype deflated, time to re-install RO.
Tree of shit.
>>331455904
The problem is there's no hidden farming for exp areas so getting EXP relies on EXP cards and quest EXP
BR's and lack of incentive to party, and overpowered swordsmen ruined it, nothing else.
>>331456976
Koreans nicknamed it Tree of Shit for a reason.
>2016
>MMO's
It's like going to the dump and expecting anything but garbage. GTAV Online is a better MMO than actual MMO's.
Mate this game is gonna be wicked sick mate
>>331456929
Being able to buy cash shop items with in-game currency is the best. It works wonder for DFO and KOREAN FUCKING Black Desert (EVERY FUCKING ONE LOOKS THE SAME IN THE WESTERN VERSION FUCK).
>>331458631
>It's like going to the dump and expecting anything but garbage.
This.
>GTAV Online
Wew lad. Well I guess even retards can have a stroke of genius from time to time.
>>331458196
Source?
So what's the next MMO we're hyping up?
>>331460549
We've got a week left on this one and then I think schedule says Maplestory 2.
>>331453574
People didnt wanted nexon.
Nexon would have done a better job.
>>331460628
Sounds great.
>>331460628
Yeah, even if its shit im still waiting for maplestory 2.
Nobody is waiting for the game for the gameplay but for the cute stuff on it so its a win-win situation.
>>331455464
Noone said wildstar was going to save MMO's though
>>331459223
t. Korean meme expert
>>331460893
>>331460628
Also this time will be done by nexon so we can enjoy the game for one year or 2 before the jewish tactics.
>playing a MMO where 90% of the population ERPs
>>331461125
This is every MMO. I am fully convinced nearly everyone who has played an MMO, normie or not, has at least dabbled in some form of ERP.
>>331461359
I've never done ERP in an MMO. That's what chatrooms are for :3
So maplestory 2 is going to be published in China soon.
NA when?
>>331453574
Shit balance
Mega jews
IMC listened to Koreans who wanted an instance fest and as such you have nothing to do but to run daily dungeons
Shit exp scaling
Etc
>>331455227
No, WoW clones are a terrible genre. Massively multiplayer games could be interesting if companies stop trying to remake WoW like the pack of know-nothing, clownish MBAs. Vidya game industry is the final proof that the world would be better off if the workers (game devs) owned the businesses and ran them democratically.
>>331453574
It's an MMO
>>331461053
what the fuck, is something wrong with my eyes or does that image look like it's growing?
When are you guys going to realize that the golden age of MMOs is over?
>>331462595
you're having a stroke
>>331462752
I'm too young to be having a stroke.
So, who is going in for the $9 package only to save some names?
>tfw its $3.50 in mexico
>Cant play because motherboard shipping delayed
Fuck.
>>331462752
I haven't slept in a bit over 24 hours and I have high blood pressure, don't scare me anon.
Seems like, in future, MMO will exctinct.
>your son will never play a MMO
So what makes this game so shit according to you guys? I was really excited for this, I love the art style and the gameplay looks fun.
I love arpgs and this seems more like one than an mmo.
>>331463543
In order to play properly you need to spend atleast $18 monthly.
>>331464123
>>331463543
Also /vg/ memes/shitposting.
Linear maps.
Thats it.
Tokens can be bought with non-premium currency you apes
And even if it only cost TP you can easily afford $18 irl
>>331464320
9/10 eat shit
>>331464310
No one is going o spoon feed you the game's problems. Go do your own research you lazy fuck.
>>331464320
>literally
>more expensive than buy to play MMOs
>>331464453
I just did and you quoted the wrong person.
>>331464496
>buy to play
>citing an outdated model
>b-but muh GW2
That game is flopping harder than your tits.
>>331453574
Literally the best game ever
11/10 I love it. Bought 578 copies for me and my friends. People hating here are just poorfags. Game is so gud! Go and buy it goy.
>>331464320
>Tokens can be bought with non-premium currency you apes
Off the market, from other players if they buy extras, for enormous prices. Good luck getting two million silver with a 30% market tax, no player trading and one dungeon run per day at a rate that doesn't make you want to just play something else.
>And even if it only cost TP you can easily afford $18 irl
It's actually $20 USD, per month.
As a reference most MMOs that use a sub model go for $15, while FFXIV is doing 12.
>>331463543
It's fun we just had some unfortunate problems in both of our betas: firs beta had very restricted access and we had really low xp rates while the Koreans had boosted xp rates to test things, and a lot of people were miffed because they also wanted to test things. Icbt2 had some skill bugs and errors launching the client.
>people bitch about tokens
>implying anyone here will reach a high enough level for the dungeons
>implying anyone will reach the stage of necessary party grinding
>implying using token on the day of character creation is a good idea
>>331465450
>he still thinks this game works like it was originally advertised
Cross server dungeon finder with a 600% exp bonus for using it
Is it possible to play for free yet? Or do I have to buy those exclusive access passes?
>>331465638
Its $9, or less if you live in a third world country.
April 30 is when the F2P starts.
>>331465715
Oh ok, thanks.
Nostalgia isn't enough to make a game good. ROfags were delusional.
>>331462389
Black Desert is shit and EQN was cancelled because it wasn't fun.
>>331465834
FAGGOT
>50$ early access with 20$ monthly sub that is practically required (even more so than wakfu/dofus) alongside with several commonly used features behind a paywall (skill reset/stat reset) with a gachapon-like system to give stats to your hats that has less than 0.1% chance of dropping in the game throuh normal means
>There are people who brought all 3 early access options
![jew-im-your-friend-trust-me[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/2Rg8Z4y.png "jew-im-your-friend-trust-me[1].png")
>forums go insane after IMC kills the game in Korea with jewish tactics
>make an announcement that Nexon won't be publishing it internationally
>everyone calms down
>open beta soon! JUST KIDDING BUY THIS FOUNDER'S PACKAGE LET ME JUST DELETE THAT PRIOR ANNOUNCEMENT, WHAT ANNOUNCEMENT, THE GAME IS DONE
>forums go into flames
>Don't worry, we care about our community deeply and you can, heheh, choose which option you would like for the founder's package
>This game will be totally free to play, and BUY totally I mean $20 per month to not be a second class citizen
>>331466440
This is false information, what the hell are you talking about?
Inform yourself before posting.
>>331466708
Explain yourself, I maybe plan to buy this
>>331466708
Please say one thing that is wrong in that post.
>stats are legitimately broken
>classes are imbalanced as fuck
>nothing to do besides grind, grind, grind
>bosses are generic and easy to abuse
>translation / story is bland and uninteresting
>CBT2 didn't fix ANY of the problems from CBT1
my hopes were crushed the moment I logged into cbt2 and realized every single problem from cbt1 was still there.
>>331466708
Inform yourself, retard, this is common knowledge for anyone who has actually been keeping up with the game.
>>331466708
But that's what happened.
random ass danmaku attacks on bosses. Just feels lazy
>>331466859
>nothing to do but grind
If only...
>>331467290
>icbt2 bosses crashing the game on danmaku
how could they let this happen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c5oo02AN7w
The cash shop went wrong in korea. It's a pretty good game imo and pretty fun (despite the bugs), but it pretty overpriced there. It's a shame that ToS had to fail this way when it was actually a pretty nice game.
>>331453574
I like the game but the class imbalance was too much. I would get to archer then Quarrel Shooter then Quarrel Shooter 2. I was fucking worthless. I went with Archer > Archer > Archer and did 6X the damage. It made no sense.
>the only good MMO is FFXIV and even then its pretty meh
wake me up
>>331453574
Welp, time to uninstall
>>331466859
Oh come on
iCBT2 had even more problems
There wasn't enough of the game available in iCBT1 to know the extend of the game's problems.
Like the potato coding and how poorly everything was done. Remember: you could effectively hack the game through the ingame chat.
>>331467409
That was the best, the introduced a patch in kCBT to remove the bullet hells because they were pointless and just made bosses into free kills (well, free-er)
For some reason they introduced PART of the patch into iCBT, they removed some of the patterns, but not the boss's ability to create them, so they would crash the game when they tried to call something that didn't exist anymore.
>>331466708
>forums go insane after IMC kills the game in Korea with jewish tactics
>make an announcement that Nexon won't be publishing it internationally
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/regarding-the-korean-service-specs/126605
>open beta soon! JUST KIDDING BUY THIS FOUNDER'S PACKAGE LET ME JUST DELETE THAT PRIOR ANNOUNCEMENT, WHAT ANNOUNCEMENT, THE GAME IS DONE
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/imc-deleted-the-announcement-talking-about-the-open-beta/145293
https://treeofsavior.com/news/?n=278
https://treeofsavior.com/news/?n=286
>This game will be totally free to play, and BUY totally I mean $20 per month to not be a second class citizen
https://treeofsavior.com/FAQ/?c=0&s=token
198 TP = 1 token
100 TP = $20
Your move
Please tell my how I was posting false information, I'm really interested.
What happened?
>>331468057
*200 TP = $20
mistyped.
>>331468057
Why are you BR scum so butthurt about this? Tokens is the same thing as, "Elite" or whatever in every other MMO out there.
>>331453574
The sweet sweet sound of industry crash.
Oh, and /v/ being wrong again.
>>331468395
>you are a BR if you don't want pay to win
>>331468395
I'm not Brazilian? But I care because what the majority of users see is
>Hey, want to pay $20 a month for this korean MMO that already died in Korea?
"Every other MMO" does not charge $20 monthly right out the door for the standard game experience. ArcheAge didn't even do that. The Founder's Pack is the best deal you can actually get.
AAA price, Indie Early-Access quality, Mobile games jewing and WC3 maps balance.
How does anyone ever was led to believe this would be good.
>>331469047
>>331468947
It's a /tosg/ meme, please forgive the crossboarding vermin.
>>331469193
In defense of third worlders, it wont be $20 for us but $9 thanks to steam.
Its not like im trying to defend brazilians or something like that, its just that it wont be so expensive for us but still a jewish move.
>>331464643
>Being this retarded
must be awful
it's more expensive than FFXIV and WoW.
Can I play as a healer?
>>331468057
>second class citizen
It lets you move faster, learn skills faster and do poses.
Big. Fucking. Deal.
>>331469945
so you can trade with players without it
oh wait
>>331470040
You can't trade with players AT ALL, with or without it, retard.
Is it true that it's a hallway simulator and that there's no real free roam
>>331455854
>>vindictus remains the f2p mmo with the most mileage
>most mileage
I don't think so m8. Literally everything else about that game is horrible.
There's a reason why it only has 200 players on right now.
>>331470290
who cares? there are little anime butts running around everywhere
i'd argue all these little butts being stuck in one little area is better
>>331468947
How is leveling faster and more Market stuff P2W? Seriously BRs, fuck off back to your shit monkey huts. Nobody wants you.
>>331470119
It's like there's just a flood of people who want to defend the game for no reason and misinform people.
They did the same thing in KTOS, then lifted it after a short while so only token players can trade.
>>331470290
yes
>>331470290
Some maps are more open than others but most of them are vaguely road like in structure. The maps in gameplay are larger than they seem from looking at the minimaps but I remember one forest area near the start being ridiculously narrow.
>>331454963
It's true. After Guild Wars 2 I've been waiting for another mmo to come back and save mmos. I had some faith in black desert but it really isn't a very fun game to play.
That being said, I will try ToS when it's released for free. I doubt it will save mmos though.
>>331470546
If we really want to get pedantic, how are minor stat upgrades P2W? You don't need them to actually win the game. Just makes things easier. And most MMORPGs aren't PvP focused.
>>331470546
You could follow that tiny post chain a little higher and read the full benefits.
And as you may or may not be aware BRnanas are some of the biggest whales for freemium games despite their country tearing itself apart right now.
>>331470553
So because a different company did it, this one will too. Even though you have no proof that they plan on doing so.
Dumbfucker. We need flags so we can filter you BR cucks out.
>>331470119
>Tokens are items that apply certain effects to all your characters in the same server.
Once you use a Token, its effect will last for a period of 30 days.
>▶ Token effects
>- Market sales tax is reduced from the default 30% to 10%.
>- Increase in the number of items you can have listed in the market simultaneously (increases from 1 to 5 when using a Token).
>- Ability to learn up to 2 attributes simultaneously.
>- +3 increase of movement speed applied to all your characters in the server where the Token is used.
.
>- 10 new Token-exclusive poses for your characters.
>- We previously stated that Tokens would allow for 1:1 trading, however currently 1:1 trading is not available.
Go fuck yourself shill.
(Poorfag) What should I do for the month only pay-rich-fags get to play?
>>331471001
You literally JUST QUOTED IT YOU FUCKING TARD.
>- We previously stated that Tokens would allow for 1:1 trading, however currently 1:1 trading is not available.
>however currently 1:1 trading is not available.
>1:1 trading is not available.
>>331470916
>a different company
It's still IMC. Nexon was just funding them.
You're an idiot.
>>331471139
>however currently
:^)
>>331454963
Black Desert DID save MMOs, anon
>>331471208
So you're going to not play the game because of the possibility of something happening in the future? Jesus fucking Christ desu.
>>331471139
Currently
As in, the exact same thing the exact same company did in KTOS, the exact same game.
Holy shit anon take it to the official forums, they love to coddle retards like you.
>>331471338
I'm not going to pay* for the game because of the possibility of something happening in the future Mr. Shillberg.
>>331471289
i need to find this
>>331471450
So don't pay for it. It's a fucking F2P game. I'm not spending a dime on it either, that way when I get bored I can drop it and move on.
>>331471816
>i'm not spending a dime on it
>that's why i vehemently defend their cash shop practices
:^)
Game was suppose to be a Ragnarok Online spiritual sequel (don't pretend it wasn't, they even said years ago in an interview it was), but the constant change of plans left it feeling like a standard MMO but less than that because it was last minute changes that made it this way.
Game is being released way too early and with way too little testing. Game is literally unfinished and missing an entire rank of classes plus like 20 hidden classes. On top of that it is unbalanced and buggy as fuck and certain parts of the game just need entirely remaking (stat system in particular).
And the developers are being too jewish/"heavy handed with bots/gold sellers". And what I mean by this is, the developers have an expensive cash shop with some retarded restrictions just to cash in on the game, but they use bots/gold sellers as an excuse for doing the shit they do.
At this point in time, the game is probably beyond salvaging. Any potential it could have had was wasted.
>>331471892
One can only hope we get some private servers out of it.
>>331472025
Private servers ain't going to do shit unless people basically remake most of the game.
>>331471085
Get someone from a third world country to buy you tokens for cheaper.
This will get abused really hard.
Can someone give me a quick rundown of why ToS is shit?
I heard that it's extremely grindy, maybe even moreso than RO, but is that the only reason?
>>331472025
or maybe signals other devs that RO still sells so they try their own clones
They'll have their money fomr the early acess shit. It's alreay sellign thr 50 buck installment on steam like it's candy.
Might as well just wait for f2p release and run a bot past 50.
>>331471085
If you want to play, it's literally $10. You do not need to be rich to afford that.
>>331472176
the short of it:
Alot of the game is unfinished
Shitty cash shop practices
>>331471885
If by vehemently defend you mean correct people who are full of shit then yeah, sure, whatever.
>>331472270
>Might as well just wait for f2p release and run a bot past 50.
The developers are incredibly heavy handed with anything that even remotely looks like botting or gold selling. Given how small and linear the world is, you will not get away with botting for very long at all.
>>331453574
Is it out yet?
>>331472372
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/vehemently
>>331470716
why do people hate guild wars 2?
>>331455854
>Fuck Maple in particular.
Reboot was really fun, though. I mean yeah Maple is still shit, but I enjoyed getting on Reboot and getting a Marksman to like 178 or however high without needing all the OP p2w gear everyone has normally.
>>331472372
>correct people who are full of shit
Who is full of shit? The guys you're arguing with haven't posted anything wrong. You're literally getting upset at people who don't approve of the price model.
>>331472176
-massive class imbalance
-skills do not scale
-stats do very little and also imblanced
-small maps that are mostly hallways with low mob density
-map grinding was nerfed, dungeons give 600% exp now
-reduced from 5 down to 2 dungeons entires per day without token
-gear is very shitty
-defence is crap, evasion even after a nerf is king
-all crafting classes nerfed to being useless
-bugs everywhere
-later monsters are huge hp sponges and you are underpowered as fuck
-the few good classes/skills took major nerfs last patch in korea
-nothing to do outside mindless grinding
Basically, take what made games like RO or Diablo good... and don't use the good parts. They've taken the worst ideas and created an unbalanced mess.
The only decent part of ther game is the artwork (not counting the female eyes) and the sprites.
>>331472612
Because guild wars 1 was very very good, and while gw2 may have stood out if it was it's own game and not in the guild wars series, but it was a letdown to gw1.
>>331472176
They kicked out Brazil, so they started a giant shitposting crusade against it.
Compare the endless praise it got pre-br exile to the enraged screeching afterwards, then offer any other explanation.
>>331472176
basically RO grinding but without any map options. You mostly stuck at a single map and limited dungeon until your next level bracket
>>331472426
>devs made massive bucks off early acess packs
>bots will just force people to buy tokens so they outlevel them.
Nah they won't do jack fuckign shit to bots.
>>331472798
hey
hey
refute >>331472758
>>331453574
Too ambitious devs who couldn't decide between generic questfest and actually interesting ideas so they tried a bit of both. Also the team seems to lack common fucking sense since 95% of the values and scaling in the game is flat and not % based. So skills you get at rank 1 are shit when you're rank 5 if you don't count the couple exceptions.
>>331472612
Massive amounts of squandered potential and unkept promises. Plus they completely did a 180 on what made Guild Wars 1 good.
>Instanced zones? Nope, open world!
>High customization of every profession? Nope, only a few abilities and traits!
>Quick leveling to let you get into endgame fast? Nope, enjoy 70 levels.
So on and so forth.
>>331472756
You can disagree with the price model and not lie and call it P2W (which it's not). It's not even remotely P2W. It's not even P2Skip like WoW or SWTOR or shit.
>>331472770
willing to take the time to explain what it fucked up? I might go buy guild wars one if it still has servers
>>331472612
Because they promised thd most innovative video game in every single way to ever be made and delivered one of the most mediocre mmos of all time.
Literally nothing they did was new or even well done.
>>331472758
Wizard 3 was suffering.
>>331472758
>-nothing to do outside mindless grinding
>Basically, take what made games like RO or Diablo good... and don't use the good parts
RO was literally mindless grinding. It was essentially a graphical chat room with PVP once per week or something.
>>331472937
>opinions disprove my post
>no source given on any claims
Nice.
>>331472917
>>331472758
So it's basically a themepark with a P2W *premium* advantage?
>>331467509
Quarrel Shooter is pretty hot right now because of some skills he gets at its C3. Actually most Archer classes got buffs since our CBT2.
>>331470290
It's both, 1-40 has two beginner cities with their own story and quests (you can do those of the other city too if you want) and then it's a fucking straight line with 1 map per level range from 40 to 200 (except around 80-90 where there's multiple maps for the same level range).
After that it opens again with multiple maps available for the same level range.
>>331470546
>How is leveling faster P2W?
Really, anon? Are you really that dense?
>>331471085
Monitor the threads to see how hard IMC is gonna fuck up the release.
>>331472176
The main problem is the stats system and damage calculation. They copy/pasted the damage calculation from RO (I mean it, they probably just copy/pasted it because works in the exact same way with the interaction between ATK, fixed ATK, DEF and fixed DEF) and then tried to make it work in a game where almost every skill has fixed damage and where stats can go over 99 without even taking the bonuses into account.
It just doesn't work, it makes you end up with retarded situations where your auto attack does 1 damage to an enemy and a random skill will do 2k and more to the same guy so most people think that their skills are bugged because of the fuck huge gap.
>>331473018
The difference between TOS mindless grinding and RO mindless grinding is that the latter was actually enjoyable.
>>331472934
You haven't played the game I see?
They have literal teams of people who just roam around looking for bots. If they find an area popular to bot, they'll literally send someone there just to camp the area so if someone tries to bot they're instant banned.
People in Korea have basically given up on botting because they always end up banned and it's not even worth it given how easy the game is to level up in now anyway.
>>331473078
So you know the math how stats like strength and intelligence affects skills?
feel free to post it man :^)
>>331473183
RO was only enjoyable because it was a graphical chat room. If you didn't have people to play with and talk to, grinding in it was one of the worst things you could imagine.
Is it fucking out yet?
>>331473018
back in beta, it felt like it was more about exploring and finding fun places to hang out and shit. I remember my greatest joy was discovering blue plant spawns for money (really felt like making money was hard back then).
I mean, WoE was definitely the highlight of the game once it was released, but there was some great joy in playing a game that was just so filled to the brim with people. That, and while the game was a massive grind, at least the combat was fast. x1 exp rates were awful, though.
>>331473329
EA in 8 days.
>>331473121
I never played the original RO, but that damage calculation sounds fucked.
Any plans to change it? Cause it sounds like auto attacking classes are at a disadvantage.
>>331473310
RO's combat had more depth than TOS has despite being an 'action mmo'.
>>331472961
why even do the beginning game if the end game is so much more important? sorry i don't play mmos
>>331473329
Pay $10 to play in 8 days or wait a month for total free.
and yet it's FFXIV saving mmos
![x3QZlON[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cpvhPEX.jpg "x3QZlON[1].jpg")
>>331472961
>>331473435
>back in beta, it felt like it was more about exploring and finding fun places to hang out and shit.
This is because the game was released in the days before wikis and dataminers. If those things existed back in the days of RO, you wouldn't be saying this kind of thing.
>Have to buy the game
>Have to buy tokens to unlock more dungeon runs per day
Lol. Back to ESO fuckbois.
>>331473638
player trading
>>331473435
This. Exploring the world in RO was my favourite part of it. Yeah, it all boils down to finding best spots for farm, but I remember spending days with my guild just exploring the world. Imagine my joy when we finally discovered Gonryun and decided to make that our guild HQ.
You don't get that same feeling in ToS because it's railroady as fuck.
>>331472974
The guild wars 1 servers are still up but it's a total ghost town. there's not much point in playing anymore.
What gw1 did right was balance. Each class could take on multiple types of roles, but you had to commit to those roles before you entered a zone, you couldn't just change on the fly and have access to everything all at once. You had to plan builds and your skills and had to be strategic. That's what I personally liked about it.
>>331473593
RO has some of the best designed classes in a MMO ever (until dumb shit like Asura spamming monks and Acid Demo started to exist). But this only really mattered in PVP.
>>331473609
Well, it really wasn't, that's the thing. What made GW1 great was the fact that you could do endgame quickly, but the majority of the game was not endgame. Missions, quests, exploring, hunting, PvP, all could be done at lower levels, or could be done at level 20 (the max) within like...4 hours of playing.
It was one of the games where you hit max level and kept doing stuff, instead of hitting max level and saying "Oh well everything else is worthless now."
>>331473702
Is one of the token benefits, yeah? Do you need someone to list you the entire token benefit list because it's up there.
>>331473638
Yeah, no. P2W is defined as having advantages that can be purchased that CANNOT be earned in-game.
A cosmetic item is not P2W. A time-saver (exp +10% or whatever) is not P2W.
Higher damage or better gear that isn't obtainable normally? That is completely P2W.
>>331471289
Non-kanye version please.
>>331473791
>tfw perfectly vert firewalling super fast enemies
being a mage/super novice was some fun shit
>>331473791
It mattered quite a bit for leveling since different classes had different strengths which made them prefer certain leveling spots over others. Also elements played a much stronger part.
In ToS every class pretty much farms in the same spots because there's only a couple good spots to farm, usually not more than one every few levels.
I just want to play a hackapell, man.
still no porn
>>331473924
I'd argue that in a game where there's no other content than levelingToS, xp boosts are p2w.
>>331474106
A lack of good locations is not the same as class design or depth being good or bad. The two are not the same thing,
>>331474241
ToS has end game content now. And it's apparently insanely fucking hard. They added it over a month ago and as far as I remember, no one has finished it yet. Infact, the furthest people have gotten is to floor 7 out of 15 in this end game dungeon.
>>331473924
I'd say that the old definition of p2w no longer works in this day and age. 99% of freemium games don't really have gear or 'damage' that isn't obtainable without cash, but rather give you HUGE timesavers.
Vindictus is an excellent example of this.
>Need +10 weapon to do relevant damage in raids
>Enhancing +3-5 has a 30% chance of failure, resetting level to 0
>Enhancing 8-10 has a 50% chance of failure, destroying your gear permanently
>You can buy runs that prevent your item from resetting or being destroyed
In this case, a cash shop item can be the difference between spending a month grinding or 6 months grinding to replace items. It might as well be p2w, because otherwise the definition isn't used anymore.
>>331473924
You completely contradicted yourself on the second line there.
None of the token benefits can be earned in game. They need to come from the cash shop or from other players who bought them off the cash shop, which if KTOS is any indication are sold at prices nigh unobtainable for free players, and that's before inflation kicked in.
>>331474241
It's an advantage but one that can be replicated by additional time spent. Now I will give you this though, if the movement speed boost works in combat and especially if it works in PvP, that is P2W and will need to be fixed.
It's not pay to win because I say so, when the game is dying I'll just tell reality itself that the game is not pay to win and magically the game will not be.
It worked for ArcheAge, it will work for Tree Of Savior.
>it's a "It's not pay2win if you don't buy a button that wins you the game" episode
>>331472758
>-massive class imbalance
I agree but it's at least getting better, best example being the whole Archer branch not being as fucking useless as before.
>-skills do not scale
Some skills do but it's indeed not the majority, it's mainly a problem for early classes for their attack skills, those become completely useless if they don't have another effect like a stun. Later on it's taken into account for the itemization, for example, fixed damage skill spammers like Fencers have "+X Fencer skill levels" attributes on their end game items.
>-stats do very little and also imblanced
>-defence is crap, evasion even after a nerf is king
Yeah, their stats system right now is fucking retarded.
>-small maps that are mostly hallways with low mob density
Depends on the map, really, and how crowded they are, we played during a period where there was a retarded amount of people in the same spot.
>-map grinding was nerfed, dungeons give 600% exp now
>-reduced from 5 down to 2 dungeons entires per day without token
From pure grinding efficiency, it's way better right now, you get more xp from dungeons in less time, but you should be able to enter with a pre-formed party and get the same bonuses which is not the case right now.
>-later monsters are huge hp sponges and you are underpowered as fuck
It's extremely true around ~80-140, it slowly gets better afterwards.
How old were you when you grew out of MMOs, /v/?
I think I was around 15 when I realized they were one of the worst genres in all of video games.
>>331474587
Except I didn't. Let's go, line by line, through the token for you.
>Token effects
>- Market sales tax is reduced from the default 30% to 10%.
Does not effect gameplay.
>- Increase in the number of items you can have listed in the market simultaneously (increases from 1 to 5 when using a Token).
Does not effect gameplay.
>- Ability to learn up to 2 attributes simultaneously.
Time saver, not P2W.
>- +3 increase of movement speed applied to all your characters in the server where the Token is used.
Possible P2W if it's significant and works in combat/PvP.
>- 10 new Token-exclusive poses for your characters.
Does not effect gameplay.
>>331474851
A few years after I grew out of anime.
>>331474587
Token prices in kTOS aren't impossible for free players to obtain. Probably takes a week or two after starting the game from scratch for most players to earn enough to buy once.
Once you've got one, you'll never struggle to get another before the one you currently have runs out.
>>331471892
So it is essentially Hellgate: London all over again.
>>331474851
19, since then I've been playing mostly games who aren't shitty timesinks.
I still get mmorpg cravings every once in a while, but most of the times I play for a week then drop it off again. The genre will never evolve from this trashy model of trying to milk every penny you have while being shittier than any other game gameplay wise. It's only saving grace, being multiplayer, is now being removed because "I want to play alone" crowd who want everything in the game to be doable alone.
>>331474902
>Possible P2W if it's significant and works in combat/PvP.
>IT'S ONLY P2W IF IT GIVES YOU SOMETHING YOU CANT GET WITHOUT PAYING
>WAIT I MEAN ITS ONLY P2W IF IT GIVES YOU NOTICEABLE ADVANTAGES WITHOUT PAYING
top kek
>>331472758
>Massive class imbalance
Yes
>Skills do not scale
No, they scale with p. attack or m. attack, but the system is stupid and highly favors multi hit skills
>Stats do very little and imbalanced
Not really, stats are pretty important.
>Small maps that are hallways
Yeah. Not all maps but most.
>Map grinding nerfed, dungeons 600% xp now
Yes
>Reduced from 5 to 2 dungeons w/o token
Yes
>Gear shitty
Not really? Not sure what's meant here you've got gems to modify gear and different options in cloth/leather/plate, plus special equipment like the Power Staff that is oriented toward physical mages.
>Defense is crap, evasion is king
Late game mobs use undodgeable magic, dexfags get btfo so hard late game it's not even funny.
>All crafting classes nerfed to being useless
Only alchemist sucks, Pardoner and Squire are fine.
>Bugs everywhere
Yes.
>Later monsters are hp sponges
You are supposed to play in a group.
>Nerfed classes
Well yeah they were OP.
>Nothing to do but grinding
That's the game.
Not all of this stuff is wrong but a lot of it is or highly opinionated so just throwing it out there.
>>331474902
You're paying for huge advantages that you can't get otherwise. That is quite literally the definition of the term.
Are you defining gameplay as pure combat? Because even then your personal definition is already stretched as you make such a significantly more amount of money that can be used to buy/craft top tier equipment. Much sought after gear from dungeons can be obtained easier because you're not locked out of them after one run.
It's boring as shit.
>>331471892
It's salvageable if they release the code like Aegis for RO. Then everyone makes their own private server and the developers, like always, copy shit.
>>331475154
I don't know who should be blamed, but it seems the major problem with the game is the developers just never had a strong plan to stick to from the start. So much stuff has been changed from their initial plans that the developers just haven't had the time to catch up yet.
The game seriously just needs another year or two of development time and for the developers to stop fucking listening to absolutely everyone on how the game should be developed because it's fucking the game up.
>>331472612
I didn't hate it, but I didn't care for it enough to even finish it.
There weren't any technical marvels like the first game. The whole "streaming engine" thing the first game did was amazing for its time, today, not so much.
PvE was trash and fighting felt like floaty nonsense. Boss fights were just gangbangs. PvP wasn't the eSports amazement they promised.
>>331475538
Wasn't the code for RO leaked?
>>331474292
I didn't mean to imply that. ToS has basically 0 skill involved in the PvE experience and because of how combat is designed it doesn't really matter where you grind even if there were more spots.
All the monsters are either dumb melee ones that run after you until you stop and then they try to hit you or ranged ones that hit you basically without you having a say in it. Aside from skill combos you can execute there's nothing engaging about the combat even in boss fights. This is why it lacks depth.
Sure in Ragnarok you could get far with many classes just by spamming one skill but ultimately there was a lot of finesse that could be achieved and higher levels even required to level efficiently on 1x.
>>331474416
I have no experience with that but if they actually introduced mechanics to make it hard instead of making everything hit multiple times harder then that's brilliant.
>>331473082
I guess you could call it themepark but it's a rundown one. Compare it to wow, ff14 or even rift and tera.
There's few rides and they are all broken.
>>331468947
Americans are well indoctrinated into buying everything without thinking.
Please excuse them.
>>331475592
What is streaming engine?
>>331475804
The end game dungeon is essentially a 15 floor dungeon. The floors themselves aren't particularly hard, but each floor has enemies with different gimmicks. The reason people are stuck on floor 7 is because enemies use counterspell, which removed any ability placed on the floor (like heals and safety zone), without these abilities players just melt in half a second.
>>331474902
>>- Market sales tax is reduced from the default 30% to 10%.
>>- Increase in the number of items you can have listed in the market simultaneously (increases from 1 to 5 when using a Token).
>Does not effect gameplay.
Directly affects how much f2p players can make money out of the Market which directly affects how good upgraded gear and enhance attributes they can purchase which directly affects their power in the game.
Especially in the case that an item's price drops below the line where it's no longer profitable to sell it at 30% tax but is still profitable to sell it at 10% tax.
>All these new MMO's come out
>Nothing Like Zhan Long
>>331475768
Yes. One of the devs left the game and dumped it for everyone to see.
>>331476039
>People can't even get halfway through the last dungeon
>People still saying there's no end game and that the game's too easy
>>331476034
The original game engine streamed nearly all of the graphical and other assets to your computer on the fly. It looked good for its day to boot. Today it is nothing special, but at the time streaming major game assets when most were loaded onto cds for a static install was amazing.
>>331476321
>There wont be anything like tibia again
>>331472758
>-map grinding was nerfed, dungeons give 600% exp now
>-reduced from 5 down to 2 dungeons entires per day without token
And dropped.
Dungeons were shit. Level 100 characters can't solo the level 50 dungeon.
Shit game.
>>331454963
yet i keep falling for it, why must every game be a big fuckup
>>331460910
Wildstar said it
>>331473584
The original damage calculation from RO is pretty good it's just that it was never intended for games where stats can go well over 100 without buffs because it ends ups becoming extremely misleading when you read some skill description.
Basically it's Damage = ( ATK*(1-DEF) - Fixed DEF ) + Fixed ATK (Fixed ATK pretty much pierces any DEF, you'll always do at least your fixed damage) so if you have an ATK of 300 (which is given by your strength) and the enemy has 10% DEF + 260 fixed DEF (the fixed DEF is given by your vitality) you'll do (300*0.9) - 260 = 10 damage to it.
Now, if you have a skill that allows you to double your auto attack damage like Quarrel Shooter C3 you'll do (600*0.9) - 260 = 280 damage to it which absolutely isn't what you would expect at first glance from a skill that is supposed to make your auto attacks do double damage.
>>331475327
>Gear shitty
>Not really? Not sure what's meant here
Well with gear it follows the minor upgrades that mean nothing. Most of the blues don't even have additonal effects. Those that do are pretty bad. You get a couple peices that are amazing, like the rokas leather, that you'll keep for 200 levels past cause nothing comes close to the secondary stats it gives.
When you look at something like diablo3 where the legendaries give unique effects you can play off oif (and yes i know diablo3 has it's own problems) it makes the low drop loot dull.
Or even look at RO drops, once they added in cards and slots gear became very imporant. letting you obtain setups for max damage or resistance and other build flexibility. Though you had to grind forever for cards.
It's not even as good as a simple wow gear treadmill where every new peice of is a minor upgrade to my str+stam and sometimes extra stats.
ToS is... here's 4 more armor on chest, and 2 more acc on gloves. Pretty shitty.
>Instanced dungeons
>Boring quests
>Shitty AI
>Slow bosses
>>331476539
It's one dungeon that's basically a rip off of what Ragnarok Online had with Endless Tower. Meanwhile the game is still missing a bunch of classes, areas and shit.
The devs probably scaled it so high just to keep koreans occupied for a bit while they work on more shit.
>>331476552
Sounds like hell for internet connections on dial up.
>>331454963
But black desert actually saved mmos nigga
>just downloaded this
>see this thread
Welp guess I'll go back to Bloodborne
>>331472612
because its nothing like the first one, and even tough the content on GW1 was heavily stanced, it was way better than the shit we got with GW2, man pvp was a blast.
>>331468057
gotta wait 2 years after all the hype is gone after a month and hope it can stay afloat after a rebrand like Marvel Heroesthat no one plays:(
>>331477174
Nah nigga. The combat is great but the game isn't that good.
>>331476838
>>Instanced dungeons
You're retarded if you think this is bad. I guess you never played Everquest before instancing. You would literally have to get on a wait list to kill dungeon mobs. I guess sitting around doing nothing is the real mmo experience.
>>331477303
What the fuck is that guild wars? That ui is fucking awful. It looks like a cheap mobile wow rip off.
>>331477413
Ragnarok didn't really have those before later patches and it worked.
>>331477561
Ragnarok was a shit game. Take the rose-tinted glasses off.
>>331476539
it's artificially difficult, it just spawns endless ranged magic mobs with homing projecticles that chunk you for 90% of your hp even if you got a lot of CON.
the only way to do it is bring cleric+paladin for safety zone + barrier and use aoe dps classes to kill the mobs quickly (elementalist is literally the only one.)
and even with this setup you cant fucking do it
if this is "endgame" then this game is dead.
>>331477727
It was a much better game than the piece of shit that is Tree of Savior, that's for sure.
>>331477881Ragnarok Online was a mess at release too.
>there are people that legitimately think this is gonna be good even after the betas and their paid early access asspull
>missed the boat on WOW
>people will never buy in and get invested in an MMO like they did for WOW ever again.
>MMOs will forever be compared to wow
>if you find an MMO you like it will fizzle out becuase it doesn't have the subscriber base to drive additional content like WOW
>WOW 2 will get shit on because it's different
better to never even get invested in an mmo then get invested in the hype only to see it slow to crawl inside 3 months
Everyone bashing the game is confirmed to not having played the game for over a day. Anyone who got to experience the entirety of the iCBT2 content will agree that the game is flawed but it's not garbage.
It sickens me to know that the majority of people on /v/ are ADHD MMO hoppers. The kind that play for a day or 3 and then toss it aside and call it awful because it's not like [Insert your first MMO experience here].
Instanced content, daily quests/content, and questhubbing are the triunvirate of cancer that's killed the MMO genre, and YES Tree of Savior is guilty of all three. However, that's what the market wants, and businesses have to be geared towards profit.
In other words, it's all the casual player's fault again. Everything that's wrong with modern vidya is because people will eat up shit so long as it's easy to get into and doesn't require too much effort. I am sure IMC would have loved to make their dream game with open world grinding and total freedom, but nobody would play that. For the same reason nobody new ever gets into Ragnarok nowdays.
>>331478294
I remember RO at release. Shit had 2 classes and about 5 areas. The two classes were "warrior" and "wizard", and wizard was useless because it had literally no abilities.
So how much is premium?
>>331478520
>that's what the market wants
>>331478664
No confirmed price yet, but if we go by Korean prices, 1 token is 198 TP (cash shop currency). 100 TP is confirmed for costing $9, so that would be $18.
>>331478294
i can't wait for the DLC subscription content then!
>>331478294
I see no potential in ToS though.
I even bought a korean account from a shady chink site and played the kCBT because I was very excited for this game but I've been severely let down.
>>331478520
>Instanced content, daily quests/content, and questhubbing are the triunvirate of cancer that's killed the MMO genre, and YES Tree of Savior is guilty of all three. However, that's what the market wants, and businesses have to be geared towards profit.
Well, too bad then, I hope it crushes and dies.
>>331478520
>Everyone bashing the game is confirmed to not having played the game for over a day
I agree that the game is deeply flawed. I have absolutely no trust in the developers to fix it and I'm still considering putting in 10€ to get access on the 29th.
I've done plenty of bashing in this thread though because the game does deserve it in many fronts.
>>331468057
this shit is so bad it makes me actually want to try BDO
>>331454963
ArchAge was probably the best representative of what an MMO should be in this current age minus a few mechanics because of the authoritarian government they have. That and they licensed it to the biggest jews of the west.
>>331478520
I got to 160 in icbt2, but the grind was too much and maps too full at that level so I made a couple other 100+ characters.
The game is very flawed. Music and art are beautiful, combat is alright. I thought there was too much downtime on a lot of skills. You can't just blame casuals for everything, all the shit they pulled in korea was Nexon. In the west they went with early access which is awful, plus the minor p2w aspects present in korea.
Grinding is essentially dead, its all linear repetitive quests and missions. Theres a ton of classes so everyone expected them to be unbalanced. The game just needed grinding to be a viable leveling method, fix all the shit that plagued icbt2 like market always down and a ton of players would have happily paid a subscription
Is nexon publishing this in the west? the steam page doesn't say so, but I can't find any confirmation.
>>331479472
They're not.
>>331479568
so why are people crying
>>331479616
Because they game isn't that good.
any game that allows direct lua sent via client with no check, is absolute trash. I cant even comprehend how anyone could support IMC after something like that. SPOILERS: it still works via external program.
>>331479280
Let me guess, you ignored everyone that said NOT to eat the exp cards immediately after getting them, so then you reached around 164 and then there were no more quests and you just felt helpless?
Listen to this everyone. This is what happened in iCBT2. After a certain point, quests no longer give you enough exp, so you were forced to grind. You know, like Ragnarok grind, in the open world.
What did players do? Everyone complained and whined. Most people quit or rerolled. That's what the MMO crowd nowdays is like. They say they want to go back to the old days, but when they actually have to spend 6~8 hours to grind for a single level they all flail and cry like babies until they get the easy modo from literallyeveryothermmointhemarket.
Sure, the maps were packed and the spawn density was low, but it was perfectly possible to do. I did the same as you but I toughed it out, with an entire week of grinding.
THAT is why the trinvirate of cancer is present on all MMOs. Because people will not play your game otherwise.
