>Tfw Megaman has no free will
>>331449946
Fuck Inafune and his red faggot
Humans don't have it either.
>humans have free will
kek no
>>331450252
This guy gets it.
>>331449946
>implying we have free will
But X does, if I'm reading that bold text correctly
>>331449946
post that funny video with the bad voice acting
>>331450194
>Neo/v/ hates Zero and Inafune
>>331450394
We've known that since X1, dingus.
>>331449946
Human beings don't have free will either, your point?
>>331450252
>>331450348
>>331450375
>>331450857
ITT:Edgelords
>>331449946
So megaman is a perfect replication of a human, While reploids have the true free-will that humans cannot possess.
Man that shit is depressing.
>>331450252
>>331450348
>>331450857
Why do Humans not have free will?
>>331451160
We are ruled by our genetics, We are programmed by our genes bestowed upon us by our ancestors.
Ultimately the only decisions we can make are the ones our genes think are best, Even if they are horribly wrong.
>>331450348
>>331450375
>>331450857
Was it your instincts that made you shitpost? Before we take the discussion any further, define to me what you think free will is, and list what books by Richard Taylor and Albert Camus you've read.
>>331449946
Mega man has gone againest his coding as indicated in the ending of 7. Although the US version made it more extreme he still does it.
Also Rock best mega man, he eas to good for this world.
Does Roll have free will?
>>331451338
So your genetics decided for you to sit inside on your computer and shitpost rather than go slaughter a boar with your bare hands so you can eat?
>>331451338
That's not how DNA works Kojimbo
>>331451438
Literally yes.
>>331451140
Reploids are bootleg copies of Megaman X(Excluding Zero)
They still have free will but not unlimited potential like X
What did he mean by this?
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HbGAkRU.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
I hear Dr. Light is looking for us
>>331451623
>Please hire actual translators, Capcom!
>>331451338
>We are ruled by our genetics, We are programmed by our genes bestowed upon us by our ancestors.
That is false though, reason exists and it can lead to outcome not preferable by our genetics such as sacrificing the self for strangers when you have family at home.
Ironically, religion and blind faith is also proof that we're not slaves to the body, because people will kill themselves purely for spirituality or an imaginary god.
>>331451427
He didn't kill Wily though.
>>331450252
>>331451623
Not canon
In the Japanese version he didn't do shit
They changed him in the American version to make him "Edgy"
>>331451761
Ability to reason is decided by your genetics
>>331451160
Cause and effect, and brain chemistry.
>humans
>free will
>>331451792
Well in that case why bother reasoning or trying to understand reality at all.
>>331451792
Is Goofy kill?
An important thing to remember is that te term Free Will was never meant to describe human capacity for autonomy. It was originally a term coined by Christian philosophers to describe a person who's will was completely free from the compulsion to sin.
>>331451434
>yfw roll probably only understands simple commands and cant hold conversation without asking for orders
>yfw roll is just a cute roomba
>>331449946
I wish the original megaman would return for a new series.
Since we have no confirmation of his destruction, I can only assume he is dormant rotting away somewhere.
He could awaken in the future past the ZX series and have new adventures.
>>331451338
So anyone who commits suicide is the only free man? Because that goes way against our genes and instincts.
>>331451823
He still tried to kill Wily in the japanese version, he just didn't say that last phrase.
Also, he's fucking pissed in the ending reel.
I know the comic is not canon, but the artist at least tries. When Megaman returns from his first adventure (Megaman 1), he's mad as fuck that he had to kill his robot brothers. He kicks the shit out of stuff in Dr.Light's lab, and the doctor has to restrain him by force.
>>331449946
>>331451123
>le eggy maymay XD
edgy
>>331452095
>So anyone who commits suicide is the only free man?
aint that the truth
>>331451761
Not that guy but genes that favor self-sacrifice could be favored if it leads to a better group outcome. Also people can sacrifice themselves for "strangers" because the brain is tricked into thinking that said strangers are part of a larger tribe. Also soldiers are trained to view their fellow soldiers as their "brother" and that's intentional psychological manipulation, it makes soldiers think of each other as kin.
>>331452095
Hes just eliminating his bad genes to save the human race entirely, It all has meaning anon, No death is meaningless
>>331452092
I have Mega Man and Proto Man plushies.
And I'm taking good care of themsince Capcom won't.
>Implying it's possible to know if we have free will or not
Keep speculating nerds.
>>331452095
Even then, they were led to that decision by by the culmination of their brain chemistry and experiences
>>331452071
She does think though in several games she makes actions completely unrelated to cleaning based on situations at hand.
So hey, anyone remember when we all read that Brazilian Megaman comic together?
>>331452004
you dont
you live your life to its fullest to the extent of your abilities until your last dying day
it's only what you are supposed to do.
>>331451903
If that was true everyone would reach the same conclusions because they were all predetermined by genetics. And yet here we are arguing and calling each other faggots for holding different points of view. Why do you think that is? Why aren't your genetics working right now?
>>331452361
Because people have different genetics, you fucking retard
>>331449946
>Dreamwave Mega Man
gross
>>331452289
But they chose it. They may have had reasons for it based on external stuff but they chose it in the end against their natural inborn genes and instincts. It's against programming essentially.
>>331452438
>the reason you believe or not in free will is purely genetic
Kojima please open a fucking biology book for once
>>331452361
>everyone would reach the same conclusions because they were all predetermined by genetics
Nigger we're not clones. That and environment also plays a factor.
>>331450394
that's the entire point of the character. It's the first robot with free will that got copied to death.
Still the best
Protoman had free will, wouldn't he be the first to have had free will.
>>331451792
I don't get it
>>331449946
>X-Factor
glorious
>>331450252
>>331450348
WE HAVE'TH OUR OWN WILL!
>>331451363
You're retarded. There's a theory video on YouTube explaining why humans don't have free will and I'm surprised you haven't watched it yet.
>>331452619
Jesus Eggman, what the fuck?
>>331452671
Dumb nihilist vs dumb romanticist.
>>331450513
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ_FSVWR6ZEW- Mega man
>>331449946
Why in media for robots destroy everything and kill everyone = free will?
>>331451434
she can do whatever she wantwith my dick
>>331452619
>Archie Mega Man will never return
>Archie Sonic is also on the precipice of indefinite hiatus
Programmed will. They can think and make decisions, but only related to stuff they were programmed to know about.
Ask them a question about something they've never heard of and they shut down.
![post-52413-0-16900000-1386565759[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5sLmmDK.jpg "post-52413-0-16900000-1386565759[1].jpg")
>>331452195
>Not that guy but genes that favor self-sacrifice could be favored if it leads to a better group outcome
What if they don't? What if Einstein goes out of his way to save a criminal with cancer who will be executed in 3 days dying in the process? What if he makes his decision knowing this?
Questioning your own free will is moot though, like trying to figure out if you're the only real person in the world while everyone else is just a figment of imagination meant to deceive you.There are more important philosophical debates than something as childish as fatalism though. Like pic related.
>>331452625
Blues was a mistake
>>331452321
>>331452835
Agreed. Roll is a CUTE
>>331452756
>he doesn't know how batshit crazy Eggman is in the Archie comic
>>331452835
Do not sexualize my daughteru.
>>331452835
How much does this cost, anyway? I'm not even sure how large it is.
>>331452128
>2005
Was Bob and George really that long ago?
How people still deny that brains are merely biological supercomuters is baffling
>>331453018
Remember when Eggman went completely insane?
Not supervillain-insane, but straightjacket-and-padded-room-insane?
>>331452092
Would have been awesome is the original megaman shows up in megaman legends 3, But that's never going to happen.
>>331452671
Duck is saying that living has no meaning or sense because it's the chemicals in his brain that makes him live.
Raccoon is saying that if life is pointless because it was caused by chemicals in his brain, then his own conclusion is also moot because it was caused by the same chemicals.
>>331452756
Trying to murder one man by throwing him off a battlestation thousands of feet in the air is one of the TAMER things Archie Eggman has done.
>>331452619
>>331452756
People usually remember Eggman from the cartoons or selectively forget all the times he was shown to be a psycho.
- Drowned a city
- Carpet-bombed several places
- Stuffs live animals into robots
>>331453035
>not fucking your daughter
Cmon fampai
>>331452859
>>331453102
Yes.
>>331452874
He was, but he still decided for himself.
>no protoman subseries EVER
>we'll never play mega man proto/ mega man prototype/ rock man blues
>>331452625
He didn't have free will. He just didn't trust humans, because he never had someone else of his kind to talk to. That's why Light made Rock and Roll as siblings.
>>331453272
Good ol Gorey Magoo
>>331453196
>mickey mouse
>racoon
>>331452004
Why not
So is it the same Megaman going through the first 9 games, or does Dr. Light have a broom closet with a bunch of deactivated megamans lying in a pile collecting dust, a la Ex Machina?
>>331453421
But if his programming can be influenced by socialization...
Something's off here.
>>331453073
it cost my sanity
>>331453693
Um, its the same. What makes you think its not? And why did you leave out 10?
>>331452871
Just because self-sacrifice was favored in prehistory humanity doesn't mean it's favored in all cases and eras. It just had to be useful enough to be wired into our evolutionary psychology.
It's like how humans find sweets so appetizing. In a hunter-gatherer society where fruit is valuable but often hard to find, making it taste good gives humans (or really, their mammal ancestors) a higher incentive to seek it out. It's great for that time and situation. But it's terrible in our modern era where sweets are cheap and plentiful, and often carry significant health risks.
So self-sacrifice could have been very useful when it was a choice between the survival or destruction of your tribe, but not so much in this modern era where you're sacrificing yourself for dumb shit like oil or fundamentalist religion.
>>331453757
or even R&F
>>331453715h-hotgluing video where?
>>331452859
Archie Sonic is back on Wednesday. For real this time.
>>331453757
Well for one he's always completely depowered in every game.
Guys please
my existentialism is flaring up again
>>331453226
>- Stuffs live animals into robots
>mfw remembering that one boss fight in Sonic Spinball
>>331453952
He gets rid of the weapons and goes back to being a housekeeper. He hates fighting if he doesn't have to.
>>331453901
the problem isi haven't it and went insane
>>331449946
Mega Man doesn't have free will but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not sentient and sapient. It might just mean he can't go against his preprogrammed directives. Obviously he has his own judgement, emotions, self-awareness, learning capability, basically everything something needs to qualify as a person. It's just that choosing to go aganist humanity isn't something he won't do, it's something he can't do.
Look at Bass, he's in the same boat yet he's always rebelling against Wily. He even fucks up Wily's plans in MM&B. How is that even possible if he doesn't have free will? It only makes sense if he effectively does have it, save for a set of objectives he can't physically ignore that his personality is based around. In his case, surpassing Mega Man. So he can make all the decisions he wants and be his own person, except for the fact that he's physically incapable of changing his goal in life to anything but one-upping Mega Man. Then everything falls into place, explaining why he's such a stupid dick.
But then I have no idea why Protoman doesn't count as the first robot with free will. Does he ever do what anyone wants him to? If that isn't his own will, who the fuck is it?
>>331452487
The choice was not their own. The combination of their genes and experiences led them to ultimately make that choice. The idea of free will is a misattribution of cause and effect.
Understanding this also requires people to understand that genetics do not exist for a reason. They exist because they have been able to self-replicate up to this point, but that doesn't mean genes have a purpose. It's another misattribution.
>>331453458
>Sticks tamed a fucking Gore Magala
>>331451160
A gross oversimplification of arguments against free will:
If the world is deterministic i.e the state of the world at any time and the physical laws completely determine the state following it, then there are no real alternate possibilities since given any past state, there is necessarily just one series of possible future states. This would mean that even before we were born, the exact events of our lives were determined to happen, which is not on the face of it reconcilable with free will.
On the other hand, if the world is indeterministic then we just seem to be at the mercy of events that happen for no reason other than chance, which some people think is even worse in the sense that it reduces what we do to being a matter of randomness and probability.
Whether you buy this stuff is a different matter, obviously there's a shitload of discourse on the topic.
>>331453550
e bamboozled the shit outta you famicom
unless you're doin a triple double bamballey-oozle on me in which case well played
ITT: not knowing nor understanding the arguments for or against a deterministic universe and/or free will.
Cause and effect is immutable without violating physics. End of discussion. Even down to the seemingly random actions of quantum physics you cannot alter results after they've happened. Extrapolate that out to any degree you want, you will find no evidence for free will observed thus far.
>>331454436
>Crazy virus vagina and crazy vagina meet and hook up
>>331454605
Free will and a deterministic universe are not mutually exclusive. Free will is, like everything else, within the system. You will make the same choice every time under purely identical conditions but that doesn't mean you didn't make it.
>>331454590
Sorry buddy, you just got bozoed.
>>331453823
>It's like how humans find sweets so appetizing. In a hunter-gatherer society where fruit is valuable but often hard to find, making it taste good gives humans (or really, their mammal ancestors) a higher incentive to seek it out
Are you the sort of person who prefers reading internet articles over books? Fruits taste sweet for their own sake, it was thanks to evolution that fruits which randomly happened to taste sweet got spread more thanks to people eating them and shitting them out.
>It's great for that time and situation. But it's terrible in our modern era where sweets are cheap and plentiful, and often carry significant health risks.
Sugar tastes good because it's an important resource for your body and brain. It has nothing to do with the era and situation, it will always taste good for us unless our body adapts to use something else other than sugar. (That's not to say there aren't people who dislike the sweet taste)
Why do I even bother arguing about these sort of things on /v/ when I can have no idea about their current level of knowledge and most are just armchair philosophers and scientists with only highschool books under their belt?
>>331455087
nuts
>>331454523
You didn't make an argument you just defined what a deterministic world is and what an indeterministic world is then said some people don't like the latter
>>331455187
Not him but there's so much wrong here that I wouldn't expect another reply.
>>331454605
The real problem, I think, is that people argue about "free will" without a clear definition of what they mean by that.
Most people intuitively believe they have free will, but don't actually think about what that means.
>>331455442
Who could do that?!?!
>>331455310
Not him, but let me break it down for you. Did you ever make a decision that was based on something other than 1) who you are as a person 2) what you experienced in you life or 3) what your surroundings are? I haven't. Because there's nothing else.
>>331451338
Our genes demand our attention for a lot of stuff necessary for our survival, but it's been proven throughout history that they are not the final word in our actions. If that were true, we'd never have moved beyond our bog-standard animal instincts, and we'd be perfectly comparable to any mammalian beast.
We still share similarities with them- we all enjoy sex, food, health, and despise thirst, hunger, and sickness, etc.- but every man who forgives an enemy they hate or takes a vow of celibacy or who willingly takes up arms for a hopeless cause they're going to die for proves that they are not guided by just the survive-and-reproduce mindset.
The idea that "humans have no free will" is the sort of bullshit defeatists tell their sorry selves to wallow in mediocrity and apathy. Humans invented the fucking concept, ffs. No other living thing on Earth, to our knowledge, can say anything similar. Why would they? NOTHING in their genetic code says that that's necessary for survival. If that's not free will, I don't know what is.
Besides, the 'true' free will you're talking about is one that doesn't seem to give the free being in question any sort of repercussion for their actions- and that way lies madness. Such a free creature would destroy itself, just to find out what death is like.
>>331449946
I wonder, did Zero ever receive that coding from Wily? He's a robot after all not a reploid
>>331455442
I would do a lot more for 18 billion dollars.
>>331455442
>>331455624
I'd step on a lot of things for 18 billion dollars. It would basically mean no more work for a lifetime if you spend it well.
>>331451427
He only went against it slightly. He very clearly didn't want to obey his programming, but he had no choice.
>>331455310
Well I did say it was a simplification.
Determinism -> lack of the ability to do otherwise -> actions aren't free
Indeterminism -> actions are attributed to chance and not us -> actions aren't free
>>331455569
Using drugs really made me realize how fucking manipulated and not under our own will "what we want" is. I'm not talking about things related to withdrawals really.
Just about the way your situation around you changes, affects your brain's chemical balance in a way, and suddenly you want something different.
I don't think we're very conscious beings but don't really realize it. And it's effective, as confidence in one's own ability is useful.
But we have to be careful that we don't assume we're smarter than we actually are. Confidence is also what suppresses fear, and fear is there to warn us about potential dangers.
>>331455442
Nigga I'd probably do it for 1 million
>>331455624
>>331455842
>>331455864
Cike! It's 18 billion Zimbabwe dollars.
>>331455819
You're right, you don't know what is
>>331455187
Way to completely miss the point. The point is that what was valuable in humanity's early stages is not necessarily valuable now. Psychological mechanisms that encourage self-sacrifice could be valuable when it leads to the survival of the tribe, but those same mechanisms could be worthless or even detrimental in the modern era, when your group is in no danger of dying out and your "tribe" can be extrapolated to incorporate any number of people.
>armchair philosophers and scientists
Says the guy who posts baby's first moral dilemmas and doesn't even know about group selection.
>>331456073
How many rocks is this worth
>>331451338
Think of them not as strictly "rules", per se, but more like... guidelines.
>>331455864
>if you spend it well
a couple million dollars is no more work for a lifetime if you spend it well
I don't know if you noticed but a billion is actually even more than a million
>>331456073
Fug. Would not step on a puppy for that I guess.
>>331456248
>a couple million dollars is no more work for a lifetime if you spend it well
Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Then again, I have no fucking clue about money.
You are observing the effects of actions you have no actual direct control over. Your entire consciousness is the result of physical and chemical reactions you are not responsible for. There is no secret compartment of the human brain that hides the "real you" that is not beholden to physical laws. The illusion of agency is a happenstance of neurochemistry.
At no point is there some extra element that supplants the cause and effect of physics and chemistry to allow a decision to be made.
>>331455442
>stomp on puppy
>receive 18 billion dollars
>spend 1 billion dollars on the best animal care center the world has ever seen
>use the rest of my money to get into politics
>change the law so that animal cruelty gets harsher punishments
>spend the rest of my money on bullshit I don't really need
>>331455187
I dunno, why do you?
>>331456181
>Says the guy who posts baby's first moral dilemmas and doesn't even know about group selection.
I post it because it leads to more interesting discussion than "we have free will, no we don't".and because I wanted to lead it up to this pictureIf this is baby's first moral dilemma and the shit you're arguing about is baby's first existential crisis.
>>331455638
I often find arguments of 'there is no free will because muh determinism' to be totally pointless.
If I understand this right, determinism states that all of the given occurrences and events that have shaped history right up to this present as I type are set and immutable, and with proper understanding and observation of those forces, it can be determined (name drop!) what the future is, in short- causes beget effects, which themselves are causes for other effects, etc etc.
This in turn means that for any given person, you could theoretically see all the 'causes' that shaped that person's life and being, and thus predict perfectly what his next choices and actions are without fail- thereby voiding the idea of 'free will.'
But if no one can make all those observations, or even most of them, then a "deterministic" universe is ultimately similar if not comparable to one in which free will exists. It doesn't matter if the test key exists for the test you're about to take if it's locked in a safe that no one has the key for- might as well just study and take your grade's fate in your own hands.
>>331452123
>the doctor has to restrain him by force.
wat
>>331456354
>The illusion of agency is a happenstance of neurochemistry.
Actual agency is a happenstance of neurochemistry
Otherwise correct
>>331451160
We can do what we will, but we can't will what we will.
>/v/ discussing philosophy
The last time this happened it literally sent my side flying into the orbit just reading the first 10 posts.
>>331456634
You would have done that anyway
>>331449946
>free will theead
>double check that I'm not on /sci/ or /lit/
For God's sake.
>>331456480
Why do you even bother replying when you pretty much disregard the core of the posts so you can post "gotcha" lines?
That's not "interesting discussion", that's just you trying to act superior to everyone else. You're not contributing at all to the dialogue.
>>331456480
/lit/ thread?
>>331456776
Yeah, like you would know, anon.
>>331456689
I think he zapped him with a weapon or something.
>>331452123
Wasn't canon.
You need to speak about the comic in the past tense now Anon.
>>331457028
you are wrong
>>331456480
This question is Kojima levels of complex.
>>331457072
I am right because I am special
>>331456480
>ZTD.jpeg
Left. I don't like his looks.
>>331456869
I recognise that thumbnail.
Fuck you, I wanted to forget.
>>331456856
I did reply to the core of the posts several times. It only lead to hearing pseudo-pop science from people who obviously didn't bother to read about the subject from books written by men many times wiser than them.
(Such as those retarded conjectures about cavemen and why they find fruits sweet)
Also
see : >>331451363
>>331452746
Question asking if anyone's read Richard Taylor who delved deeply into fatalism and free will and what's the response? "No but I watched this youtube video".
>>331456207
One trillionpebbles
>Implying free will exists
>Not being a hard determinist
Oh cool a Mega Man thre-
>>331456351
It shows.
what
>>331457690
no bully pls
>yfw nothing really matters in the end
>>331451123
It's not really edgy to think we don't have free will.
It's edgy to think we are being controlled by some sort of governmental entity, but with our current understanding of the universe it would be hard to come to the conclusion that we indeed have free will, as that would mean there is something special about "Living atoms" that make them different from "non living atoms"
>>331454045
>>331456832
Could've been /his/ too.
>>331456634
Well obviously you should still try to better yourself.
Humans and our surroundings are too complex to be able to fully predict such thingscurrently. You're correct that at the end of the day, it is not all that different looking from a hypothetical universe where true free will exists.
But as it currently stands I cannot imagine what a world with "true free will" would be like.I mean, since people would no longer be driven by their own personalities and their environment, how would they function? How can something exist and not have at least something governing the way it acts?
>>331451363
I've read the Myth of Sisyphus, the Stranger, the Plague, the Fall, and Exile and the Kingdom, so I think I'm pretty qualified to say Camus is bullshit.
>>331449946
Why does he want to give robots free will?
What good will that do?
>>331455624
/b/
THIS CITY
>>331455442
>>331456371
Anon, you turned this into a classic doctors dilemma
>Kill one to save a large sum of others
>>331458840
bold move cotton
>>331458174
It would also open a giant ethical can of worms if we didn't have free will because it would be morally unjustifiable to inflict suffering as a means of punishing wrongdoing, since nobody is responsible for their actions.
>>331457795
>Average investment return is 2.5%
>Invest 2 million dollars
>Make $50,000 a year in investments alone
Money made easy nerd.
>>331452092
I'm betting the original Megaman is shut down by an override for trying to kill Wily. He probably thinks that killing him will be the best for everyone. After he attempts to shoot Wily he likely goes offline and is then unassembled by Dr Light knowing that this kind of robot can never rightfully exist.
That would be why X, once completed, was locked up until he could prove that he could make the right decision based on his own free will. Without that Light didn't think robots could rightfully exist in harmony with others. Which unfortunately went against what he previously believed in.
Wily on the other hand created the maverick virus and created Zero....
>make a robot with free will
>everyone uses this as the basis and creates a shit ton of robots with no thoughts on the possibility of them turning on their human masters willingly, always just assume it's a bug or a virus
>start using the word maverick as a blanket term used to label anything that doesn't suck human dick 24/7
>eventually have a bunch of wars that leads to an energy crisis
>reploids as usual get the short end of the stick and are decommissioned in hordes while the humans don't sacrifice any form of comfort
G-good job light, I'm sure all your children are grateful for being born into this shit world.
>>331455442
Of course I would, but it would have to be on impulse. I'd eventually regret it otherwise if I thought about it
>>331451338
Are you retarded? You've completely ignored societal impact.
>>331459424
Who gives a shit? We can always make more reploids.
>>331452128
>Bob and George ended almost 9 years ago.
Fuck me.Does anyone know if he is still updating his commentary?
>>331459605
Each reploid is a unique being that died you piece of shit, did the humans ever bother to store all those reploid's memories in gigantic storage devices with the intent to revive them in new bodies once the energy crisis was solved? Nope, the thought never crossed their mind, they just willingly let an insane copy of X commit genocide. They couldn't even be bothered to dirty their own hands, they just made another reploid do it.
>>331459737
>It's been nine years
no anon please not tonight..
>>331459316
Yeah from a pragmatic standpoint we'd probably still do it anyway because making examples of people is a cost-effective deterrent.
>>331459854
The mere existence of a "copy X" already shows how silly it is to equate the life of a human to any number of reploids. Just copy them. Replace them. And if you have any bit of sympathy for a piece of metal, remove their weapons and limbs so they can't be mistaken as a threat.
Organic is beautiful. Organic is life.
>>331450252
Literally, scientifically wrong. Unless you are a NEET
>>331459424
Yeah, none of that is Light's fault. He only made X and spent decades drilling a moral code into him. Besides, Zero was the one who released a horrible robo-virus on the world
>>331459316
That's foolish. It may open an ethical can of worms but does not make the argument for such, any less sound.
Plus, at the end of the day, inflicting suffering is still the logical thing to deter such actions. Another thing, is that I mentioned environment as a factor. But even that is understating the complexity of what makes us do things.
However you do accidentally raised a different good point. If such "lack of true free will" things were learned/believed by the masses we would likely see Social Justice types legitimately argue what you just said.
Of course I would, it's just a fucking dog, I drown the little fuckers whenever my bitch has a litter anyway.
Who's this guy, you ask? Oh, only the greatest villain in the history of vidya. You know what he did? Fucking made sure Mega Man isn't living no more, that's what he fucking did.
Then he started a war between humans and reploids that may or may not have destroyed the world.
Oh, and he built a fighting robot that hundreds of years into the future STILL is the most powerful there is.
Did I mention most of this happened centuries after his death, and he planned most of it out WHILE trying to take over the world, which he did 10 times?
>>331460149
>Literally, scientifically wrong.
Care to inform me, or at least link me to such a place that will?
>>331455442
I don't get it. I've put kitten in a bag and stoned them for free. It's just something you do with pets, there isn't always someone to take care of them and what are you gonna do when they have a litter of 6 kitten/puppies?
If we kept all the kitten and puppies born humanity would need to grow exponentially.
We definitely have free will. The issue is we do not have social mobility unless we are rich
>>331460792
Lol nice post. I for one completely believe this post and everything stated in it and now that I've thought about it, I'm angry. Here is me showing my anger towards you in the form of a reply. Really good true story.
>>331450252
Shut up liquid
>>331460613
You misunderstand, anon before was asking what would actually be different in a world where free will didn't exist compared to what we experience now. I was not saying punishment being amoral is an argument against a lack of free will, I'm pointing out that it's a consequence.
>>331461403
I answered the first one to the best of my ability back here >>331458174
Potentially nothing, or potentially such a world could not exist.
A potential consequence unless people stay level headed about it, but if such information was officially confirmed and released, more upfront would be the likely mass turmoil it would cause.
Why are we trying to discuss Philosophy and free will guys.
I just wanna talk about games without shitposting.
>>331462179
Then go to a thread that doesnt open up on fucking philosophy you buffoon
>>331458174
That's just it, isn't it? An anon in the thread earlier compared human genetics to robotic programming because genetics demands minimal required results of our actions- survive and reproduce. Consider what happens to a human without even ONE of those 'limitations' on their survival capability. What happens to a human who doesn't feel pain? What happens to a human who can't tell when he's hungry, or dehydrated, or tired? They still have the option to do those things that would keep them alive like others of their kind; however, without the instinctive urges that would tell them when, how, and why to do it, their capacity for survival would drop considerably.
A being with 'true free will', as I stated earlier, would be like a child who can't feel pain plunging a knife into itself- it would ultimately do something self-destructive and suicidal, because it has no 'instinct' within itself advising it not to. If it did, it would have a limiting factor, and thus not truly be free.
>>331452859
Because Archie as of now is now an utter hellhole.
>>331452316
Yeah. It was ridiculously horrible and cringe worthy.
>>331462405
There is more to us than our mere genetic instincts.
But yes, you are partially correct. At the end of the day however, there would still be something driving that creature to those suicidal tendencies. Curiosity, depression over being a freak, ect. What you described is still bound by it's own personality and various other things
>>331455442
I'd even skin him alive for double
>inb4 edgy
>>331452316
>BR megaman comic
Sauce? I'm bored as shit.
>>331453150
Where can I start reading these comics?
>>331462972
>Reading Cucumber Quest
You've already done worse
>>331463070
http://en.sonicscanf.org/comics/archie/
You gotta make an account, but it has all the Sonic and Mega Man comics Archie put out
>>331451160
Everything you do is a product of your initial neurological state with which you were born, combined with everything you've experienced since birth. An exact clone of you that is subjected to exactly the same experiences and environmental stimuli that you have been would always make decisions in the same way that you yourself would, because decision-making is based on nothing more than the physical state of your brain combined with memories of your past experiences.
>>331463168
>Cucumber Quest
I didn't even know about that until you told me,anon
I just found that reaction image on /g/ once and saved it
>>331451792
>u can no nuffin ;) ;) ;)
Irrationality disguised as wisdom. What a time to be alive.
>>331451160
our minds formulate decisions based on context and cues and form behaviors and habits.
>>331462801
Would there be? Would there really? Is not desire itself just a different type of instinct? Isn't curiosity a desire for answers, and isn't depression a desire for things to have been different, or to currently be different?
I take it back- a true free will wouldn't kill itself, it wouldn't have the impulse to. A true free will could very well simply be comatose.
>>331463414
>He DOESNT read Cucumber Quest
desu you should senpai
>>331463636
Just to play doubles avocado, here's a fun fact: nobody has come up with a satisfactory definition of knowledge since the Gettier cases threw 'justified true belief' into question in 1963.
>>331449946
Free Will doesn't exist. People are just parts of the whole, gears of the machine. They act exactly like they are supposed to act, they cannot diverge from the path they're destined to take.
This post I just made is the result of countless past events, and it will now bring new countless events as consequence.
>>331463784
Now you're gettin it.
Also I thought you were referring to base primal instincts.
I guess all of those things could also technically be considered instinct as well
>>331451123
You are the edgy one if you believe you actually have free will, buddy. Even your birth wasn't your choice.
>>331464901
Even people arguing for free will wouldnt think your birth was a choice.Unless you're part of one of those HIPPIE religions
>>331459320
classic rent-seeker mistake there
you have to account for inflation otherwise if you eat 50k bucks a year your money is gonna be worth less and less
>>331455442
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaGQ3KGOMto
>>331452335
But that makes you a slave to those chemicals.
>>331466108
Slave or not, you can't deny that you still feel the feels of existing.
>>331466108
Yes, and?
>>331451475
AHAHAHA
>>331454309
>I have no idea why Protoman doesn't count as the first robot with free will.
Because then X wouldn't be special.
>>331455442
Of course I would.
>>331449946
>ctrl+f "megaman 7"
>0 results
you fucking people
>>331466786
also see >>331451623
What does it mean for a robot to act outside its programming? We surely don't mean that the robot did something that its programming didn't allow it to do. That would be impossible. I get the sense it just means the robot acts in a way that wasn't anticipated when the programming was written.
There are plenty of real life examples of AI systems generating solutions to problems that even the programmers didn't anticipate. For something game related, see the case of Eurisko, a self-modifying program that was banned from a tournament involving fictional spacefleet battle simulation for coming up with a completely novel and devastatingly successful strategy http://aliciapatterson.org/stories/eurisko-computer-mind-its-own. It's a pretty interesting read.
>>331449946
>X-Factor
>tfw Wily is the one who does thisMUH MUH MUH MAXIMUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vblaTqrLEdI
>>331456480
Go the fuck to sleep and let this shit resolve itself.
>>331451123
retard
>>331451160
you can choose to do what you want, but you do not choose what you want
>>331466518
By the proxy of having the shining finger, X would be plenty special without being the first with free will.
And doesn't Zero also have free will too? Albeit he has deeply ingrained instructions to do certain things but he fights them off after the head injury?
Technically doesn't that make him the first?
>>331468239
I'm usually not the type to buy figures, but that X is so badass, I kinda want it.
>>331451338
genes have a part, but saying shit like this is stupid. Environment is what forge us
>>331468239
I thought X-Factor was X AND Zero? Both are the only cases of true free will at their times.
>>331468863
The other color scheme looks cool too.
>>331468954
I was making a Marvel Joke.
But yeah, technically Zero was made fully operational first, X had to go through a system check for 100 years before he was fully brought online.
>>331467874
>to counter opponents using the same strategy, Eurisko designed another ship equipped with sophisticated guidance computer and a giant accelerator weapon. Its only purpose was killing enemy lifeboats.
That sounds exactly like the thinking of a machine to me.
>>331469129
Technically, Zero didn't have true free will until he got knocked the fuck out by Sigma.
>>331469204
Oh no he had the capacity despite it not being apparent. I count that as full ability buried beneath heaps of programming.
I imagine in his old age wily was crazy and wanted something to think for itself to go on an kill everyone.
>>331469384
>I count that as full ability buried beneath heaps of programming.
Then technically, you would also count X as having the same capability - it's just that Light wanted to play it safe and put him in testing for 100 years to verify it.
>>331469129
I thought that system check was just light sending X through loads of simulations to show him the idea of morals.
>he thinks humans have free will
top zoz, you have the illusion of free will and nothing more
we live in a deterministic universe
>>331455624
>implying most of people wouldn't
I'd not feel much more guilt than stepping on an ant or eating a steak, which is none
>>331469504
Well I suppose that's up for debate, I'm not really sure which finished first, but in between both were operational. I just imagine Zero was finished first since you do get some hinting towards him already in the process of being built when you're playing as Megaman
>>331455819
>clueless retard want to be FREE
