Mario games are not a game, because puzzles are not a game, and Mario games are nothing but sequences of jumping puzzles.
>But OP you tremendous faggot, puzzles are games. Puzzle games are an entire category of game, you cockjuggling cum receptacle.
On the contrary, m'lad. How do lose at Jigsaw Puzzle? And if you cannot lose, how can you consider it a game? Puzzles are not games. Games can contain puzzles, but unless there's actual gameplay (which is more than just solving puzzles), it's not a game.
>Fuck you.
Your mother's already engaged in that activity.
epic thread bro *upvotes* but i'll play along
the mere act of moving Mario in any direction and jumping makes it a videogsme by definition (intersctive medium)
if I press up and he moves up in any way its a videogame
>Mario games are nothing but sequences of jumping puzzles
>jumping puzzles
that's called a platformer you retard
>>331099563
>can't lose at puzzles
>you can lose at mario
????????????????????????????????????????????
>>331099721
If I press up while in the options menu on my copy of The Bourne Supremacy there is feedback in the form of the arrow moving between different options. Is TBS a videogame?
>>331099882
Yeah, it is.
>>331099563
So THAT'S why my mom's strapon is gone.
>this is the post quality on /v/ now
>>331099849
Right, and what I'm saying is that Mario (and other platformers by proxy) are not games.
>>331099867
Can you?
You can fail to complete the level, much like I can fail to finish this delicious cake, but that doesn't make either eating or SMB2 an experience that it's possible to *lose* at. You can keep doing it until you get it right.
There's no real difference between a Mario game where if you drop off a ledge you land in a tunnel where the only way to proceed is to run back to the last checkpoint and a mario game where you're teleported by way of death except that the latter is quicker.
>>331099563
>FPSs are not video games. It's just a puzzle about how to manage inventory and reticle placement under time/danger constraints.
>RPGs are not video games - it's just managing numbers and pattern recognition, same as a puzzle
>MMOs aren't video games - they're just puzzle contests plus Facebook
>Adventure games aren't videogames - it's just finding the right piece to fit whatever puzzle is blocking your path.
>You can't lose any videogames because there are infinite attempts given
OP can go home now.
>>331100130
>Can you?
Yeah.
If you get a game over in Mario i'll come over to your house and break the game so you can't continue.Then you can break me, big guy ;^)
>>331100130
>You can keep doing it until you get it right.
You do this for literally every video game. Your reasoning is stupid
>>331100609
>You do this for literally every video game.
Spelunky.
>>331100408
You're pretty much correct.
>>331099563
>Hotline Miami games are not a game, because puzzles are not a game, and Hotline Miami games are nothing but sequences of shooting puzzles.
>>331100130
>every game that isn't in an arcade where you can run out of money and be forced to stop playing isn't a game.
I agree.
>>331100791
Nope.
Closer would be to say that any game which will (by design) allow you to keep trying until you figure out a predetermined "correct" answer is not a game.
Roguelikes are a game, for instance.
>>331099563
Quality of the games aside, your argument is ridiculous. You can fail at a game, and even if you have multiple lives and infinite attempts to beat it, that still makes it a video game.
I don't see how you can think Mario games aren't games. You're reasoning makes no sense.
Gr8b8m8r88/8
But if Mario were just a puzzle and puzzles, for whatever reasons, wouldn't be considered games, then literally any game isn't a game.
Gears of Wars is just a puzzle to figure out in what sequence you need to kill the enemies to not die.
Undertale is just a puzzle to figure out the sequence to interact with characters in order to achieve your desired ending.
Morrowind is just a puzzle to figure out in what sequence you have to install graphic overhaul.
>>331101014
Except that roguelikes are not truly infinite as infinity is only a concept, so eventually you'll have a repeat of a design you had before. Since the possability of seeing the same setup twice is possible, it's possible to see the same setup any number of times, making roguelikes just as predetermined as any other game if given no limit on time.
>>331101197
Chess, Go, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Tetris.
Just some examples of games which I feel are rightfully called games.
Morrowind isn't a game, it's a box full of toys and mods. Undertale is a sequence of puzzles, yes. Gears of War is a sequence of shooting galleries. None of the above are games, and that's fine. Calling something a game should be a meaningful statement, rather than just being shorthand for "thing what you use for entertainment".
>>331101024
>You can fail at a game, and even if you have multiple lives and infinite attempts to beat it, that still makes it a video game.
If puzzles are games, and I really don't see how you can argue that Mario is not a sequence of puzzles about jumping, then why is Mario a game and Jigsaw Puzzle not a game?
>>331101406
>Except that roguelikes are not truly infinite as infinity is only a concept, so eventually you'll have a repeat of a design you had before.
While it is *possible* for this to be true, it's really quite unlikely to be the case for anyone isn't both immortal and not autistic.
>>331101502
>Chess
>Tetris
>Not puzzles
What a joker.mp4
so you're a pc gamer who doesn't know such thing as execution skill or whatever you like to call it. he only plays games that aren't real time. nevertheless your reasoning still doesn't make sense.
also care to explain how your examples of games are not puzzles too? Is infinite tries the only reason?
>>331101613
>it is possible for this to be true
I'm glad that we can both agree that roguelikes are not games
>>331101502
> why is Mario a game and Jigsaw Puzzle not a game?
You can lose in mario (die and be sent back). Jigsaws are not designed around having your progress reversed while mario is. This is one way in which mario is considered a game and jigsaws are not.
>>331101692
>also care to explain how your examples of games are not puzzles too? Is infinite tries the only reason?
Assuming that you mean the C,G,Y,T list I gave previously, the reason that I consider them games is that they are effectively a sequence of choices, all of which are valid. For the most part, they're competitions about making decisions, which aren't puzzles, unless you want to define puzzles to include a puzzle that is created by the opposing player while you're solving it.
>>331101795
Roguelikes will react differently to what you're doing depending on what you do, whereas everything in a Mario game is on a predetermined path. Your game of Nethack will be different depending on what you do in previous levels; your game of SMW will be 99.999% the same.
>>331102038
Dying immediately post-checkpoint over and over is essentially the same as picking the wrong puzzle piece to place.
Would Mario cease to be a game if, when you died, you simply teleported back to immediately before the screen that you died on? (screen being defined here as the width of the level displayed at any given time)
>>331099563
You lose at a puzzle if you fail to complete it or give up halfway.
>>331102884
>>331102173
the puzzles aren't created by the opponent since all the situations are included in the game and your opponent makes decisions to choose the next puzzle not to create the next puzzle for you. so all the puzzles already exist in those games and if there's no hidden information in a turnbased game it's also not about thinking what your opponent might do because every decision is there for the players to see. chess and go just have so many situations that not all the games are going to be the same. but you're going to face the same starting moves more than twice in chess and go. how is that different to you from playing the same level more than once in mario?
gamesituations in mario are different too. there isn't a strict on rail path where you have to just press the button at the right time. you can move in the game world freely.
do you think fighting games are games?
>>331100130
>You can fail to complete the level, much like I can fail to finish this delicious cake, but that doesn't make either eating or SMB2 an experience that it's possible to *lose* at. You can keep doing it until you get it right.
so dark souls isn't a game either? lmao
>>331103426
>it's also not about thinking what your opponent might do
disregard that it was about an opponent who knows all the situations or puzzles that the game can have but chess and go have so many situations a person most likely can't know all of them
>>331099563
Mario games require timing your jumps. Jigsaws don't. Checkmate atheist.
>>331102173
>Roguelikes will react differently to what you're doing depending on what you do,
those are shitty mechanics meant to balance out other shitty mechanics though
you want to farm for 10 minutes? too bad, we're decreasing enemy and item spawns on the next few levels or making some spoopy OP boss chase you because of what you did
>>331102173
Mario isn't just about jumping, points and coin collecting are a part of it too, which are affected by choices, a multitude of which are valid.
>>331100694
>You're pretty much correct.
So if no video game are video games. Then what are they? Might as well be video games since nothing fits your definition.
>>331103426
>...you're going to face the same starting moves more than twice in chess and go. how is that different to you from playing the same level more than once in mario?
Because the opening of a chess/go game isn't a separate section of the game; it's a single part of it, which informs the state of play later on.
Mario levels, on the other hand, are comprised of *many* jumping puzzles per level. Watch a run of 1-1 of SMW: I count roughly 11 discrete puzzles, though you could reasonably argue 10 or anywhere up to 13. The later sections aren't changed by the earlier sections, while the later sections of any chess match are *absolutely* informed by the earlier sections.
>do you think fighting games are games?
I do, for the same reason I think that Chess is a game. Only once you get out of the button mashing stage and can actually identify the moves you're using, though.
>>331099563
I submit this to you, then: Every game is merely a puzzle. Ridge Racer is a driving puzzle. Fire Emblem is a strategy puzzle. Halo is a shooting puzzle.
![1303352634826[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/fEdSIFF.png "1303352634826[1].png")
>Greentext: The Thread
>>331104020
>>331103979
>no video game are video games
>Every game is merely a puzzle
Basically, yes.
There are some games, but mostly videogames would be more accurately referred to as videoexperiences.
>>331103630
Dark Souls is a puzzle game, yes.
>>331104234
Then what is a game? Give us a definition.
>>331104365
According to OP, a game is a game if you can lose and if it's competitive in some way.
>>331104365
A game is a competition involving choices (as opposed to reactions) between two or more actors.
>>331099563
You lose at the Jigsaw when you aren't able to complete it
Don't make me activate the thread derailer op
>>331104234
but in dark souls the enemy ai will react differently based on your decisions and sometimes randomly too. that's no different from getting a different block in tetris or your roguelike stuff.
>>331099563
>Mario games are puzzles
>jumping is a puzzle
>>331100130
there's a degree of interactivity. A win or lose state is inherently necessary to define a video game. If you can interact with it, it's a video game.
>>331100130
Why is it always fucking food analogies, also you're retarded a game can be anything. This bait is shit
>>331099882
Yes. If you sit there and play with the options menu it is a game.
If OP's shitty argument is saying that if there's no actual skill involved then it's not a game (I.e. He's saying games like league are games because there's always a way to "lose" - by not aiming well or timing things incorrectly and puzzle games require only to be solved through process of elimination or trial + error) then he's wrong. There's skill involved in mario games. You could mis-time a jump. You can speed up in running and not see an enemy coming. It's a game, even if anyone considers it easy. OP is not only baiting, he's just plain wrong.
>>331099563
Why aren't people at this level of faggotry auto-banned?
>>331105330
Isn't inherently necessary*, fuck, my bad.
>>331105507
yeah he doesn't consider the execution skill part of games to make a game a game only the strategic skill
>More than one person in this thread is actually humoring the OPs bait
>Actually trying to refute his literal non-arguments
Jesus Christ you people must be bored
>>331099563
>How do lose at Jigsaw Puzzle?
Giving up.
And you can lose in mario by failing too many times.
This has to be bait
>Beat em ups are just fighting puzzles.
>Fighters are just figuring out your oponent puzzles.
>Smups are just shooting puzzles
>FPSs are just 3D shooting puzzles
>Zelda games are just dungeon puzzle puzzles
All fucking games are puzzles by your definition, you fucking retard.
>>331099563
>>331100694
The problem with your Spelunky argument is that you can still remember how to react to a specific enemy or to a specific ledge placement in front of a hazard.
Every level in a game like that is just a bunch of little puzzles (each enemy, each ledge, each hazard) that you have learned how to deal with by playing previous levels.
Every "random" video game follows this formula, and that's how you can look at a new "random" level and know what to do instead of being totally confused because you already know what to do at each little puzzle
There is no stipulation that a game must be competitive or must be losable or winable. One can race others in Mario and have a winner or loser based on time, or one can lose when they have given up, the same is true for jigsaw puzzles
If roguelikes were totally random there would be no reason anyone could beat the game faster than anyone else, and likewise they would be no reason to play because you couldn't learn anything from play.
Chess and Go will be better games by your definition than a roguelike ever will. Likewise, any game against an opponent offers a near infinite numbers of situations, and to solve them you must be better than your opponent
Fighting games and competitive shooters and the like offer a much higher skill barrier and many more situations than a game like Spelunky
they are not puzzles
>>331105727
No, I disagree with your correction. A win and lost state is what makes a game a GAME. Video or not. There is no game you cannot lose. Otherwise, how is it a game? A 3D rendered... thing where a waifu walks randomly around and you can click on her to make her say "I love you, anon" is not a game. By your definition, it is.
>>331099563
Your definition of puzzle is wrong. You have no clue what you are talking about, and absolutely have autism, whether this is bait or not.
>>331107248
How about having a goal? You can have a goal in a game even if you can't lose.
>>331107853
If you give up on the goal, you've lost.
Anything can be a game if you have fun doing it. Fuck, banging rocks together can be a game. How to play: bang rocks a certain amount of times within an alotted time. If you can't, you lose.
Or even simpler: bang rocks together. That's it. If you choose not to, you lose.
>>331099563
Roasting in ebin bread.
Pls add my post to your /r/4chan screencap.
